Don't Make this ONE MISTAKE when Oiling Jewels
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2023
- In this video, I talk about the biggest mistake made in jewel lubrication and how to check your work to make sure you are not losing amplitude.
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MY CHOICE FOR WATCH LUBRICATION
► 4 Pot Oil Reservoir geni.us/8UsFHwe (Amazon)
► Bergeon Oilers watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Moebius 9010 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Moebius Hp1300 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Moebius 9415 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Moebius 8200 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Moebius 9504 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/...)
► Molykote DX Paste watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
MY MICROSCOPE SET-UP
► Amscope SM-3T watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... Amazon)
► Barlow Lens watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► LCD Ring Lite watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Hayear Microscope Camera watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Camera Adapter watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
** FULL LIST OF TOOLS & SUPPLIES I USE **
watchrepairtutorials.com/tool... 
Хобби
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Thanks Alex, something to ponder and think about, as far as I have seen in my research is “ask 3 watchmakers about lubrication, you get 5+ answers” 😂
When he comes to lubricants, there’s always been a debate about which lubricant goes where in different scenarios. But as far as the subject of this video, I don’t know how much debate there could be. You can’t put the same amount of lubrication on the escape wheel as you do the 2nd wheel.
I agree wholeheartedly Alex, you are the only person I have seen or heard of bringing this subject up in this way.
It,s to much when oil spreads to other areas than the frictionpoint, and that depends on dimensions.
No doubt, but if you stick to the recommended lubricants you will always end up ok
I (since I was a little kid) have been able to take things apart, see how they work, and fix them. It's the intricate details that are only acquired through years of hands on experience that you pass on in easy to understand (please forgive my terminology here) "pro tips" that you and so few like you do valuable to the craft of watch making.
Thank you my friend, you made my day
Love hearing your tips and tricks!
More to come!
I always enjoy your video's and learn something from them, Thanks Alix
It’s always good hearing from you, Keith, keep up the good work buddy
Very helpful information, thank you.
Glad it was helpful DD😄
Thanks Alex, great Vid.
My pleasure!
Thanks Alex, interesting insight.
It’s ironic that I made that video and now I’m working on a movement that is absolutely flooded with lubrication. 🤔
Another great idea from the master
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you for the tutorial video..
You're welcome 😊
Just came across your channel. Been binge watching, :). Great tips!
Welcome my friend. Let me know if you have any questions
Words of wisdom from the Maestro, which can not be found in any watch repairing manual. Thank you, Alex Sir for enlightening us
Many thanks my friend.
It’s awesome when the video turns out not to be clickbait and is solid gold information instead
Nothing but truth here my brother
Great advice, lubrication is all about the three Rs: the Right amount of the Right Lubricant in the Right place.
I appreciate you stopping by David. The three R’s. That’s good. Love your blog .
@@watchrepairtutorials I'm very happy to hear that, thanks Alex!
@@davidboettcher1900 I see you have run into an issue at your shop. I hope things work out for you. All the best. -Alex
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks Alex👍
Thanks Alex.
You are most welcome Mike.🤘
Hi Alex, just saying great watchmaking videos, thank you for the advise on movement holders it is on point, i myself said why did i not think to do that, thank you Alex. Dave from UK
That’s awesome Dave. I love hearing from you guys from the UK. there’s a bunch of you.
Good tips. 20 years ago my watchmaking mentor said "more damage is done by watchmakers using too little oil", so your comments on a larger pivot needing more oil is exactly what he meant. Also, while I don't use the automatic oilers, I do like to change to a larger oiler for pocket watches. BTW, so many folks with channels now, and you still see guys too lazy to change their screw drivers between different size screws! lol
Thank you my friend.
Brilliant informative video as always! What's the coolest watch you have done work on?
Personally for me it would either be old military watches from ww1, ww2 and the Vietnam era. Some of these were brought to me by the owners that wore them into battle and had stories to go along with them.
Those were by far the coolest.
Alex, always informative and relevant information I can use in my watchmaking. Could you comment on the types of oil used for the various train wheels. If may memory serves me, I have seen where a servicing guide for say an ETA 2892-2 calls for HP1300 for for most of the train pivots if not all and this typically works very well and I get good results on amplitude around 280 - 300 range. However, I service a lot of vintage Seiko which typically yield lower amplitude 220s - 240s for 6 series than say a Swiss movement as a general rule of thumb and I tend to shy away from the heavier viscosity lubricants like HP1300 on the train and stick with 9010 which yields better amplitude results for me. I am always very careful to peg all jewels pivots and inspect pivots and jewels under high magnification after cleaning and prior to assembly. Am I doing the right thing here? Any thoughts appreciated. John S
Hey John, are you saying that you’re using 9010 on all the train wheels and Seiko’s. Are you saying that that’s increasing the amplitude from 220-240 up to 270 ? The viscosity of 9010 would not stay around very long on your large wheels if that’s in fact, what you’re doing.
Typically use Hp1300 on 1, 2 and 3 and 9010 4,5 and balance.
The issue with Seiko running at 220-240 it’s going to be the subject of an upcoming video.
Great vid again. Following on from this we should use different oils when oiling well. I oil on the slowest biggest wheel with HP 1300 on the faster smaller wheels with HP 1000 and the smallest wheel ( escape) with 9010. Also as shown in the excellent vid vary the amounts applied..
Thank you my friend. Even person I’ve ever heard of here using HP 1000. Are you using it for the third and fourth wheel? And 9010 on the escape and balance ?
@@watchrepairtutorials yes and have had no issues with amplitude. 9010 escape and balance.
If you want to start an argument talk about lubricants to a horologist😊. I should have also added I have noticed that many are now using auto oilers. (see RUclips vids) and I agree with your advise an auto oiler is not simple to adjust the amount applied so over oiling is happening. I personally use Bergeon oilers but do use an auto oiler for the balance cap jewels because I find easier to find dead centre when applying..
@@clockboy4615 I find your reasoning for using the HP 1000 very sound and I wouldn’t expect there to be any problems. I would suspect that one reason you don’t see many new watchmakers using it is because it’s just another expense. I’m sure you could literally go right down the HP line and use them all if one wanted to.
As far as auto oilers go, I have them, but for me personally even with the screw turned all the down, it still deposits no much for my liking.
I might have to look into the HP1000 a little closer. Thanks
love the channel. My question is about pivot jewels. I know you are not supposed to lubricate them, but I do not know the reason why this is bad
I assume you’re talking about the pivots for the pallet fork. This is true, unless the pallet forks have conical pivots and an endstone.
There’s really two reasons why you don’t lubricate them. The first is the fact that they don’t spin and have a very short arc of movement.
The main reason is the fact that the top pivot typically ends at fork lever or arm.
Because of this, there’s really nothing to hold the oil in place so it tends to creep down the arm, contaminating the fork slot, which then contaminate the impulse Jewel which will slow down the escapement and even stop it.
@@watchrepairtutorials thanks for the reply. I guess I used the wrong term. I was asking about the jewel on the impulse roller. the one on the balance wheel. it interacts with the fork. seems like that gets a lot of wear
@IMSAIGuy No that will cause the Watch to stop. The impulse Jewel only has a small amount of friction because all the truly doing is hitting the corner of the fork slot. It only touches it for a very short time, then throws it in the other direction.
Thanks for another great tip Alex. I think my x10 loupe is bit to weak for observing the amount of lubrications. Maybe I have to get a microscope or another loupe with better magnification.. wil x20 loupe work?
It will as long as you can get like to it
So I just came across your channel. I have recently fell in love with mechanical watches. My goal is to service my own watches. I am trying to gain enough knowledge before I begin the process and I was looking for a repair tutorial. I found your page and started to look for your series but the first 2 videos are missing. Is there away I can get ahold of those first 2 videos. I have downloaded the rest of them and started to watch them but I really don't want to miss out on anything. Any help would be appreciated
You can also watch those on my website watchrepairtutorials.com where I have the Video as well as the blog post and pictures all grouped together. watchrepairtutorials.com/from-the-beginning/
@@watchrepairtutorials thank you for the quick response. I will check that out.
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Wish I'd have been your apprentice.
I ended up selling my shop to my apprentice.
I couldn’t really make sense of this until I replaced the word “arbor” for “pivot shoulder”. Not sure what is the correct terminology. Perhaps both!? Anyway, thanks for another very informative video! 👍
From a technical standpoint, you’re more correct using the term shoulder. I probably could’ve done a better job explaining the difference between the arbor, shoulder and pivot.
As always, I appreciate you being here .
perfect time to discuss oiling pallet jewels/arbors then segue into escapement lube variations from slow, low beat turtles all the way to 5 Hz extreme pressure escapements
Well, I’ve covered the Swiss method for lubricating palette jewels, but I’m not sure how many of my viewers are working on movements that vibrate at 36,000 bph
@@watchrepairtutorials plenty of 28 and 36K mvts and have been around more than 40 years
with no shortage of "experts" asserting pallet jewels should NEVER be oiled
and more clueless regarding escape wheel teeth and pallet jewel forces as things speed up.
Respectfully, not asking for myself, I've serviced many 5 Hz mvts with first one a common 250 buck piece (mint condition going rate then) 35 years ago.
Even that far back plenty would have serious escapement wear as many watch mechanics or plumbers thought the same lube for pallet arbor to be good enough for pallet stones and e-teeth.
@@RavNivara there’s no doubt there are hi beat vintage watches out there. I might have to plan a video around that.
Your point about escape wheel tooth wear is also very valid.
I think that’s one of the major downsides of a hi-beat movement. The amount of lock is so small that if there is any wear on the locking corner of the tooth that instead of the tooth landing on the locking surface of the pallet stone, it lands on the impulse face which causes all kinds of problems.
I appreciate your comments and input.
Alex
@@watchrepairtutorials many newer time pieces truly have pallet arbors and jewels whose manufacturers' assert are NOT to be oiled.
I do not know the list, but, those I know are higher-end timepieces seemingly designed not to be worked on. AS IN, manufacturers/designers bent their elbow 5 times to comb their bald heads when many more straight-forward paths exist that make servicing easier.
Vintage and antique time pieces certainly require pallet arbor jewels to be lubricated, and the high freq movements will PUNISH servicepersons and owners of short-cutted pieces.
The forces on their pallet stones and arbors are great, and even in slower beat movements.
Alex what is your thought on lubrication yes/no of the pallet fork pivots. Most say no. I believe Seiko says yes.
No, and no. Pallet forks pivot on a very short radius so they don’t need lubrication. The only exception or some large size pocket watches.
The second issue is the oil traveling down the pallet lever to the fork, slot, and contaminating the impulse jewel. I’ve worked on movements that were service six months prior. That stopped because of this. If this is something new that Seiko is doing, I can’t speak to it, but I doubt it very seriously.
The Seiko NH36, 7009A and 7S26/7S36 manuals all indicate a small amount of Moebius A (9010) on the pallet pivot. I have always ignored that one.
Hello Sir, lubrication of the watch with the hp1300 and 9415 is either enough or should add more like 8300
You need 9010 for the fast wheels like the escape wheel, forth wheel and balance wheel pivots. 9415 is used just for the pallet stones. I’ve never heard or seen any watchmaker use 8300. For that alight, 9504, but you can also use D5 or Molykote DX if you are looking for less expensive alternative.
@@watchrepairtutorials thank you sir
@@watchrepairtutorialsI found some oil in the online store, 9415,9020 9104,9010,9030,d5,8300 anything you can recommend me 3 oils to be selected
I had read that Moebius 941 was better than 9010 for the fine arbors. Is this true, or should I stick to 9010?
LOL, not true. Totally different type of lubricant al together. 941 is for pallet stones in old slow beat movements.
@@watchrepairtutorials Well damn, thanks for the info! I'll exchange it for the proper oil
@@watchrepairtutorials The technical data says its for low torque gears in watches. Also for quartz movements. The Moebius data sheets aren't the greatest.
Is it better on pallet stones than 9010?
@@k-ozdragon 941 or 9415 are escapement grease used in pallet stones only. Nothing else in a mechanical watch.
9010 is for low torque fast wheel like the balance pivots, escape wheel and 4rth wheel.
@@watchrepairtutorials Gotcha. Should I keep it for the pallet stones? Or is 9010 better for that?
In the background is the same frame from the "The Sopranos"! Why?
Why not? That picture is from the scene from the episode the pine barrens. My son got it for me and it’s autographed by the two actors who played Paulie, walnuts and Christopher.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks for the reply. I saw only one artist, sorry I didn't see the signature...
Exactly, they're for factories. That's my o'pinion! Haa, ha, ha, ha ha, haaaaaa! :)
It’s not the volts that kill a watch it’s the amps
Great point.
My problem has always been has been feeling guilty that their was not enough oil it has gotten better by always using a microscope when oiling
I wish you could see what 4992b I’m working on right now. Flooded.
That microscope makes all a difference
I don,t like the word "watchmaker" used on an serviceman, a maker makes stuff.
I hear you. But today it has become the standard.
Alex, another great vid on lubes. You speak of too much, too little and just enough. In your experiences, which is worse for a movement if one were to fall into, too much or too little.
Thanks
To much for sure. Too much oil or lubricant attracts dust and grit, and if it makes its way to the hairspring then you really got problems with fast rates
Thanks
Welcome
Hi Alex. Do you have an instagram account or mail address? I'm stuck at assembling Citizen 8200 movement(my first watch repair attempt.). I can't transfer movement only to escapement wheel. I want to send a video about it and ask for your opinion if possible.
My information is on the about me page