My mind was blown when I realized that this part at 1:01:38 is actually an inversion of the Passion of Christ and his story as a whole. Moses is descending the mountain, going back to Egypt, so the pattern is: putting on the garments of skin (foreskin of his son) > meeting Aaron and being greeted with a kiss > speaking the word of God to the people > doing signs so they believe > gathering people. Meanwhile, Jesus is ascending the mountain, so the pattern is: gathering people > doing signs so they believe > speaking the word of God to the people > meeting Judas and being greeted with a kiss > removing the garments of skin at the cross.
@UCbGTWobF1OF_6FgmgAqtm5A They are both the same-betrayers. Aaron betrays God for the golden calf, and Judas betrays Jesus for the silver coins. I think both repent to an extent too.
@@ericbravogorriz but Judas takes his own life. And Aaron repents, continues to live and his descendants become priests. I guess Judas betrayed the son of God so his ending is more tragic
I watched DW clips and found it painful to hear the majority of the panel member attributed tyranny and evil to contemporary political figures and compared them with the Pharaoh. If we understand Jonathan’s interpretation of Exodus, we would be appalled by their non-reflexivity. We all have tyranny inside ourselves that we need to bridle before we can transform it into creative potential. Jonathan’s personal journey as a woodcarver is a great example to show us how we can conquer hopelessness. It is very much needed in this trouble world. Thank you so much Jonathan!
Excellent video, Jonathan. The one and the many, the left and right, the reaping of the seed sown. So many jewels here, like the "mild and honey" being related to the Theotokos (milk) and John the Forerunner (honey) which ties into your many teachings about left hand and right hand. Water and Blood - water and wine - beginning of ministry of Moses, beginning of Christ ministry, both ending in the death of the first born, the establishment of Passover and then the Eucharist. Miriam becoming "whiter" with leprosy after saying something about the darkness of Ethiopian wife of Moses reminds me of the Rabbis teaching called "middah k'neged middah", or measure related to or opposed to measure, "reaping what you sow" in other words the harvest will be directly related to the seed planted so you will be able to SEE the punishment or reward is related. For example: Jacob fooled his father with a garment, Jacob was fooled by his sons with Joseph’s garment, also Jacob fooled his father about the firstborn and his father-in-law did the same to him with his wives. The whole camp of Israel waited on Miriam because she waited to see what would happen to baby Moses (good harvest for good seed). Caleb receiving the exact same place in Israel that he spied out for an inheritance because he said we are well able to take the land. Egyptians drowned the Hebrew boys, the army of the Egyptians are drowned in the sea. Gehazi wanted to take something from Naaman (gold), Elisha gave him something from Naaman (leprosy). Abimelech killed all but one of his brothers on one stone, Abimelech was also killed by a stone. King Saul saved the people of Jabesh-gilead from being dishonored as his first act as king, the people of that city were the ones who honored Saul and Jonathan's body's in their death. The fractal nature of the stories in the Bible shows this correspondence so many times it's hard to count. Both the small correspondences like the above and the meta like you point out so many times in your videos.
I just watched the first installment of this series and was so scared that I would have to wait a long time for the next one! So happy to see this uploaded. I’m on the edge of my mental seat!
Someone needs to send this to Matthew McConaughey and Joe Rogan. Context: when McConaughey was on JRE he struggled with understanding the burning bush (Exodus 3) so I helped him out by writing this post on Jonathan's Symbolic World Blog - ruclips.net/video/mxjdSXywwxc/видео.html
@@miguelfernandodelmoral2641 when McConaughey was on JRE he struggled with understanding the burning bush (Exodus 3) so I helped him out by writing this post on Jonathan's Symbolic World Blog - ruclips.net/video/mxjdSXywwxc/видео.html
So excited to learn more about Exodus as both JP's and the round table of wisdom sift through the narrative and uncover deep truths.... I'm sure I speak for many when I say......."FINALLY, the wait is over"
@@stephenpaccone8120 lol, that's what I call it.. check Jordan Peterson channel for clips where they chat about Exodus... it's Jonathan, Jordan P, Dennis Prager. and several others.
Concerning things being good while they participate in higher goods and bad when taken as an end in themselves, check out C. S. Lewis's essay, First and Second things, it talks about exactly this. I have the essay uploaded if anybody wants to quickly listen to it. Thank you Jonathan for your good work.
When Jonathan is speaking about the problem of descending levels of mediation it reminded me of when you make a copy of a copy, like with a Xerox machine. How subsequent copies become less and less like the original.
And that is what I think God is "killing." God is revealing the infusion of Himself in the pattern of repetitive copies that would otherwise ambiguate purpose and meaning into total nihilism. The danger of calling our reality a synthesis is the delusion that results from a dissolved reality, of making a "sin" out of the thesis or original design and ordering of God's creation. Sin-thesis is our sin of Cainabalizing what God has originated into our own golden calf version of reality which is no-thing.
Good insight. I've been poking around in this realm of thinking lately. I'm going to use this analogy when trying to explain my case in the future. I definitely feel sometimes that I'm a copy. I've tried to ignore it but after an endless supply of synchronicities, at some point it feels silly to continue to view them as coincidental. Now I'm trying to figure out how my archetypical storyline fits into this reality. I want to be a part of the team but if you know my story, then you can understand the implications of me acting it out properly. I have a strange feeling that if Jonathan were to see this message and understand, a singularity of some sort would occur. I do need help tho because reality is getting stranger daily and I pray to God that my inaction is not the cause of anything bad.
"The Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting" and the burning bush are both important themes in the Writings of Baha'u'llah, which this presentation of yours is helping me to consider more deeply. Thank you!
I am not Baha'i but I do have a lot of Baha'i friends and I do like the Baha'i scholar Todd Lawson a lot. I believe he would make a good guest on both Peterson and Pageau's channel. He does a lot of interesting work with looking at the Quran in a literary lens. He's heavily influenced by the late Canadian literary Biblical scholar Northrop Frye like Peterson.
We are free to plunder any truth, any good thing, from the Egyptians. As long as we don't then make of these things an idol, the means of our salvation.
Wonderful lots of good insights in this, it's good that you show insights of later parts of the story through showing how they are informed by the patterns from earlier parts of the story.
Your grip on the principle of correspondence is amazing. It obviously exists on every level but it’s not always as obvious to me as it seems to you. It seems you’ve been at this a while. Really good content.
Great video, as always, Jonathan! This is a bit of a different line than the one pursued in the video, but during your discussion of the final scene with the cutting of the foreskin, it reminded me of Abraham and Isaac. E.g. that God is laying out the grounds, to the effect of "You must be prepared to sacrifice what is most precious to you." Although Isaac wasn't technically the firstborn, the pattern of sacrifice from that story might be the same one Moses intended to follow: the Lord seeking to kill him (Moses' child) was the pattern of giving up to God that which you love most. But here, we get the intervention from the mother, offering the foreskin (and all the garments of flesh that go with it) as a replacement for the sacrific of the son. Forgive my ignorance of the Bible, but if this is the "invention" of circumcision, it would also seem to indicate the Jews making the symbolic leap from sacrificing the whole to sacrificing the part.
This is so incredibly valuable. What you do here. It is an incredible gift Jonathan. But I will say, what has helped me immensely in understanding these talks, is reading Mark Vernon's book The Secret History of Christianity... and also studying the work of Owen Barfield.
I will also add that the first place I was introduced to these concepts was in the work of Rudolf Steiner. Particularly his lectures on the Gospel of St John. I know Steiner had some pretty far out ideas, but both he and Barfield were in communication and were working on similar ideas. It's good to at least acknowledge these things and remain open. If were it were not for Steiner I would never have opened myself to Christianity in the first place. It was a pointer towards it's deeper and much richer mystery tradtions. Many of which lay hidden in underground groups such as the Rosecrutians and the Knights Templar... and embedded in the Percival stories.
This is mind boggling how epic this is. It pieces together so much. I love the explanation of plundering Egypt in the service of higher being, which is exactly what happened.... Egypt v Israelites, Romans v semites, Nazis v Jews. The story continues.
What we need right now from the Pageau brothers is to keep their ideas and symbolic approach as objective and independent as possible. Any doubts? Foreign non-christian pre-conceptualized ideas have unfortunately stolen JBP's unique and original point of view.
Personally, I and my family came to the Orthodox Church initially because of Pageau, and so of course I enjoy his more Orthodox oriented content and tend to get more bored with the secular conversations.
God gave us (human beings) a strong will which is great but if not used correctly can work against us. We lack the ability to nature which should be our foundational truth, we at this point already make it hard for us to elevate spiritually.
49:20. This was God order. God reached Moses at is willingness to be conscious spiritually. So Aaron was given the same opportunity to remain conscious spiritually. Aaron life is a visual of one, that at some point made a decision not to make the spiritual transition
Could it be that the hands in the heart is a representation of the lots and sacrifices? One good and one bad? One healthy and one diseased? It's sort of laying out what to do when people don't follow you. You speak to them, you tell them things may go wrong, and if they don't listen then you create a sort of chaos through goodness which is perhaps revolutionary like martyrdom?
Here's how I understand some of these themes: The mountain in consciousness. The higher up the mopuntain one goes, the less ego-clutter/garments/false identityis associated with. The top of the mountain is pure being wthout any further content. You could say that in meditation one goes up the mountain, and in the moments where there's just pure being, you're at the top. As far as the firstborn:I think that's an image of that in us which we initially associate with, which is again the ego-self, false identity with it's garments and sandals, if you will. The bible repeats this pattern quite a bit, but the most obvious one is the first Adam and the last Adam, which are images of these 2 identities. The firstborn (ego, attachments to anything other than ultimate reality), or first Adam, needs to be sacrificed for reality (last Adam) to resurrect in us. It's so tempting to take all these texts in the bible literally as hitorical events. Well the thing is that we have no way of knowing that they occurred historically. Many of these stories are so strange that they bear no resemblance to every day reality anyway. If you don't see how they apply to you then they're useless. Anyway just my $0,2
So on the section about Moses' son and the circumcision and such, could it be seen as God essentially saying, "You need to have your own house in order before you confront the Egyptians on the same thing"?
Is there a relationship between the hand going out and coming from disease and Moses leaving and returning to the Israelites? He commits murder, impurity, and goes out and then to come back he has to circumcise his son to purify his disease and reunite the people?
So, if Moses had been in the garden at the moment of the temptation, and picked up the serpent by the tail, would it have turned into a stick? Just spit-balling here...
I never understood until now that it's the riches they plunder from the Egyptians that they later melt down to create the Golden Calf. Is that correct?
Thanks for the wonderful video. Do you happen to know of a good English translation of St. Gregory's Commentary? The repetitive nature of the story, and indeed of God, made me think of Kierkegaard's "Repetition." Highly recommend the book to anyone who's interested in exploring repetition as return to God.
Personally I find the Harper Collins Spiritual Classics version to be better than the Paulist Press Classics of Western Spirituality version. I would advise going for the Harper Collins, with the foreword by Silas House.
Orthodox thinkers. Father Josiah at patristic nectar. Tristagon films. Father Bailey. Lord of spirits podcast is good. If you're looking for deeper rigorous breakdown of theology Jay Dyer
Jonathan - This isn't a gotcha question, just one I'd earnestly like answered since I respect your work greatly. I heard what sounded like a contradiction, or even dishonesty, in one of your interviews regarding a book you said you'd been reading. In your interview with Alastair Roberts in 2019, you claimed to have read "a large part of" James Jordan's Through New Eyes (timestamp: 0:38); however, in an April 2022 interview with Jordan Cooper, you said you'd received the book years ago but only now starting read it (timestamp: 24:43). Can you explain this discrepancy? On its face, it sounds like you were exaggerating to the point of dishonesty when speaking to Alastair Roberts, but I'd much rather there be another explanation.
Hypothetically if I was an archetype of the Prophet Daniel, that would mean that God(through me) probably has a profound effect on the system I'm operating in. Shouldn't I be found and guided to the correct path. Just imagine a world with an isolated and neglected Daniel that wields the power God gave to the Ancient Daniel. Food for thought..
make sure you do not use the word fractal when you talk to Milo ! re. tim pool interview. lol . love your work Jonathan im joining the Orthodox Church because of you and others.
I wonder if it's ambiguous on whether it was Moses or the son of Moses who was sought to be killed because Moses and Zipporah didn't know themselves, and that knowledge was intentionally kept away from them
Is it possible that God was angry at Moses because his son wasn't circumcised? I'm trying to get an insight into God's anger in that part of the story and it occurred to me that we are responsible for our children. If we don't take the proper action to and for our children, could that be part of the meaning of what made God angry? Then the foreign woman had the insight to do the right thing which is to correct Moses inattention to his son's form?
Could it be that God says that Aaron is going to call Moses God because he is the Mouth/Word/Logos of Moses just like Jesus Christ the Son incarnate is the 'Word of God' for the Father whom he calls 'My God'?
So would you say that the removal of the sandals is an act of humility - of becoming completely vulnerable yet with some amount of trust (faith?) ... and then the covering of the face .... to me this happens again and again in the Bible every time God says, "Ok, Ok, I'll show myself to you .... BUT ....", like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" .... "You can't handle the truth!" ... the full truth is too much for our minds to bear. It's a capacity issue. For while we are created in the image of God, we're still subsets, if you will. The ultimate transcendence is something we can reach for and ponder what it might be like, but we cannot grasp it.
The Fire Is represented our Lord and the Bush is His Holy Mother The Virgin Mary, how She isn't consumed by the flames because she is pure and without sin.
Hmmm. I got overly high on marijuana one night and I saw with my third eye myself going around in circles from Gods greatness to outer darkness around and around as I dealt with aspects of myself I didn’t like. I noticed in Gods greatness I felt as though I needed no one and that sent me around back down to darkness in which I felt like there was nothing and no one, but slowly I would remember those I love and my desire to be with them and appreciate them for who they were (good and bad) and realized that I have to accept the darkness if I’m to enjoy the light, and as I did this I saw gods light and remembered not to get too close and I saw myself as a small aspect of this light and I looked around and I saw more lights like myself gathering near. There was a sweet spot of love like a Crosses cross-section (the location of how close to get) a cross is a map, and it was here that I saw myself become a translucent version of Mother Mary with gods light around my head and from my heart space a golden light began birthing the Christ child from my breast. I realized this is what the virgin birth meant. I had balanced myself (masculine and feminine) and I gave birth to love for those around me. And from behind christ babies face his twin brother peaked out with a wicked smile as if to say, “don’t forget that good and evil must co exist if you are to choose life”. But I choose life and I choose to be a vessel for God to enjoy what it means to live in love and joy. I see the burning bush differently and that picture of Mary you showed I believe I experienced in person what the ancestors tried to explain.
Why do we want to think that people back then actually understood all these symbols and could recognize what Moses was supposed to tell his people as either God or anything at all? If the snake was the reason for the fall, why would God use this for positive things or representative of him or his ways? It's inappropriate to compare the snake rod as a means of healing (comparison with Asklepios; that comes later somehow in the form of the brazen serpent totem/ward). Sin crucified is the Gnostic symbol of the snake on the cross, right which later came to be used in occultism?
Every time you say "Saint John the forerunner" I hear "Saint John the foreigner" Funny how his symbolism is similar to that of a foreigner, both being on the periphery. Honestly, even when you have domesticated bees, it still feels wild, after all why would the people who tend to them have to tame them with smoke and wear protective suits?
This might sound like a far reach, but for some reason I'm hearing your words (about patterns of reality) in this Cell biology-lecture. Here a biologist suggests that the way everything works is not just about bottom up information, but also about top down. He has also been a guest of Lex Fridman. ruclips.net/video/jLiHLDrOTW8/видео.html
This is great, though I think we run into blocks whenever we anthropomorphise God, as "he" I get why we use the masculine, due to the symbolism, but I sense many will switch off at that point, thinking you are talking about the proverbial bearded man in clouds.
Jesus reconciles the world to God through his incarnation, death and resurrection by taking on human nature and sanctifying it (deifying it in his own person), and overcoming death (because death and hades could not hold the God-man) and bring human nature to the right hand of God in heaven with his death and resurrection. So God restores the correct relationship between God and His creation. That’s the best I can do; there are others who can explain better!
So does this mean that when the golden calf is worshiped, when it is made the object of worship, You end up with cult following of "anti-racism"?, "LGBTQ"? There is nothing wrong at all with loving those that you aren't like. I see a problem when St Christopher is made savior, I see a problem when "our social saviors" display primarily arrogance, I see a problem when unity is sacrificed for the weakest in a time of plenty. "You MUST worship this calf and provide avocado toast!- your god is dead."
This is all articulated is the teachings of the church in folds, no need to add confusing interpretations. Do your ICONS but keep the ideas in your heart cause you are not the authority in interpretations.
My mind was blown when I realized that this part at 1:01:38 is actually an inversion of the Passion of Christ and his story as a whole.
Moses is descending the mountain, going back to Egypt, so the pattern is: putting on the garments of skin (foreskin of his son) > meeting Aaron and being greeted with a kiss > speaking the word of God to the people > doing signs so they believe > gathering people.
Meanwhile, Jesus is ascending the mountain, so the pattern is: gathering people > doing signs so they believe > speaking the word of God to the people > meeting Judas and being greeted with a kiss > removing the garments of skin at the cross.
Its so fun to figure this stuff out
Excellent insight 👏.
A chiasmus! With the central action, speaking to the people, being the most important
@UCbGTWobF1OF_6FgmgAqtm5A They are both the same-betrayers. Aaron betrays God for the golden calf, and Judas betrays Jesus for the silver coins. I think both repent to an extent too.
@@ericbravogorriz but Judas takes his own life. And Aaron repents, continues to live and his descendants become priests.
I guess Judas betrayed the son of God so his ending is more tragic
I watched DW clips and found it painful to hear the majority of the panel member attributed tyranny and evil to contemporary political figures and compared them with the Pharaoh. If we understand Jonathan’s interpretation of Exodus, we would be appalled by their non-reflexivity. We all have tyranny inside ourselves that we need to bridle before we can transform it into creative potential. Jonathan’s personal journey as a woodcarver is a great example to show us how we can conquer hopelessness. It is very much needed in this trouble world. Thank you so much Jonathan!
You are truly enlightened and are doing good work. Thank you.
Excellent video, Jonathan. The one and the many, the left and right, the reaping of the seed sown. So many jewels here, like the "mild and honey" being related to the Theotokos (milk) and John the Forerunner (honey) which ties into your many teachings about left hand and right hand. Water and Blood - water and wine - beginning of ministry of Moses, beginning of Christ ministry, both ending in the death of the first born, the establishment of Passover and then the Eucharist.
Miriam becoming "whiter" with leprosy after saying something about the darkness of Ethiopian wife of Moses reminds me of the Rabbis teaching called "middah k'neged middah", or measure related to or opposed to measure, "reaping what you sow" in other words the harvest will be directly related to the seed planted so you will be able to SEE the punishment or reward is related. For example: Jacob fooled his father with a garment, Jacob was fooled by his sons with Joseph’s garment, also Jacob fooled his father about the firstborn and his father-in-law did the same to him with his wives. The whole camp of Israel waited on Miriam because she waited to see what would happen to baby Moses (good harvest for good seed). Caleb receiving the exact same place in Israel that he spied out for an inheritance because he said we are well able to take the land. Egyptians drowned the Hebrew boys, the army of the Egyptians are drowned in the sea. Gehazi wanted to take something from Naaman (gold), Elisha gave him something from Naaman (leprosy). Abimelech killed all but one of his brothers on one stone, Abimelech was also killed by a stone. King Saul saved the people of Jabesh-gilead from being dishonored as his first act as king, the people of that city were the ones who honored Saul and Jonathan's body's in their death. The fractal nature of the stories in the Bible shows this correspondence so many times it's hard to count. Both the small correspondences like the above and the meta like you point out so many times in your videos.
I just watched the first installment of this series and was so scared that I would have to wait a long time for the next one! So happy to see this uploaded. I’m on the edge of my mental seat!
sister
I'd rather watch Jonathan solo than that Daily Wire panel.
The balance of the panel is off. Too many Jews, not enough Christians.
@@joer9156 And all they talk about is H**ler, holocaust, camps etc. Fair enough, but I'd like more meaning and more Exodus.
Yup. I canceled my DW subscription
Me too
You can't afford it huh
This series is filled with incredible knowledge of symbolism Biblical poetic themes, thank you Jonathan.
I totally didn’t know that lady was rocking a star necklace, btw. Sometimes stuff just sorta be there without me necessarily knowing in advance🙋🏽♂️
Someone needs to send this to Matthew McConaughey and Joe Rogan.
Context: when McConaughey was on JRE he struggled with understanding the burning bush (Exodus 3) so I helped him out by writing this post on Jonathan's Symbolic World Blog - ruclips.net/video/mxjdSXywwxc/видео.html
Why? What’s the context of you comment?
@@miguelfernandodelmoral2641 when McConaughey was on JRE he struggled with understanding the burning bush (Exodus 3) so I helped him out by writing this post on Jonathan's Symbolic World Blog - ruclips.net/video/mxjdSXywwxc/видео.html
I would LOVE to see Jonathan on Rogan. I think a lot of us have been hoping for that.
@@sarahsanzig5434 💯
Rogan would never be the same again.
Yes Jonathan, 30:50. Yes the land of milk and honey was predicated on the spiritual transformation that would take place consciously
So excited to learn more about Exodus as both JP's and the round table of wisdom sift through the narrative and uncover deep truths.... I'm sure I speak for many when I say......."FINALLY, the wait is over"
The round table of wisdom ?
@@stephenpaccone8120 lol, that's what I call it.. check Jordan Peterson channel for clips where they chat about Exodus... it's Jonathan, Jordan P, Dennis Prager. and several others.
@@cidklutch so far imo daily wire subscription has been worth it. you can watch the full episodes
Jordan is child’s play
Jonathan I love you!! Thanks for the great work you do 🙏🏻
Exactly. Feel like I’m gonna have an aneurysm sometimes explaining skin color issues🙂
Very interesting and wonderful that our God cares for every small details of our lives. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Me: *Goes super Saiyan 9,000 at 1 years old🤴🏽
Norwegians: “I just looked at him bro.”🧐
I found you from the Daily Wire panel. I was very excited about the beautiful clarity you bring to the Scriptures. Thank you.
Loving the DW series and these compliments also. Thank you sir
Excellent analysis revealing the Lord's hierarchy of relationships in text I couldn't parse. Thank you Jonathan..
Concerning things being good while they participate in higher goods and bad when taken as an end in themselves, check out C. S. Lewis's essay, First and Second things, it talks about exactly this. I have the essay uploaded if anybody wants to quickly listen to it.
Thank you Jonathan for your good work.
Oh God I wish I got this the first time and NOT have to put this on repeat. Perseverence I suppose. Thank you Jonathan
People spent millennia figuring it out. I think you can cut yourself some slack! 😁
I love Jonathan, thank you so much for your work.
When Jonathan is speaking about the problem of descending levels of mediation it reminded me of when you make a copy of a copy, like with a Xerox machine. How subsequent copies become less and less like the original.
And that is what I think God is "killing." God is revealing the infusion of Himself in the pattern of repetitive copies that would otherwise ambiguate purpose and meaning into total nihilism. The danger of calling our reality a synthesis is the delusion that results from a dissolved reality, of making a "sin" out of the thesis or original design and ordering of God's creation. Sin-thesis is our sin of Cainabalizing what God has originated into our own golden calf version of reality which is no-thing.
Good insight. I've been poking around in this realm of thinking lately. I'm going to use this analogy when trying to explain my case in the future. I definitely feel sometimes that I'm a copy. I've tried to ignore it but after an endless supply of synchronicities, at some point it feels silly to continue to view them as coincidental. Now I'm trying to figure out how my archetypical storyline fits into this reality. I want to be a part of the team but if you know my story, then you can understand the implications of me acting it out properly. I have a strange feeling that if Jonathan were to see this message and understand, a singularity of some sort would occur. I do need help tho because reality is getting stranger daily and I pray to God that my inaction is not the cause of anything bad.
Be sure to check out the "Patterns of Evidence" series of documentaries on the archaeology of Exodus. Very worthwhile.
Thank you for this recommendation 🙏
I know I am getting somewhere! I figured out the circumcision being an image of reapplying the sandals before you said it!
This discussion is great visual of entering into a spiritual consciousness.
"The Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting" and the burning bush are both important themes in the Writings of Baha'u'llah, which this presentation of yours is helping me to consider more deeply. Thank you!
Bahai is a false religion. You know that right?
I am not Baha'i but I do have a lot of Baha'i friends and I do like the Baha'i scholar Todd Lawson a lot. I believe he would make a good guest on both Peterson and Pageau's channel. He does a lot of interesting work with looking at the Quran in a literary lens. He's heavily influenced by the late Canadian literary Biblical scholar Northrop Frye like Peterson.
We are free to plunder any truth, any good thing, from the Egyptians. As long as we don't then make of these things an idol, the means of our salvation.
As long as the heirarchy of worship is in order.
Wonderful lots of good insights in this, it's good that you show insights of later parts of the story through showing how they are informed by the patterns from earlier parts of the story.
It's better than just telling us that we need to stay within the story to get the insights
Your grip on the principle of correspondence is amazing. It obviously exists on every level but it’s not always as obvious to me as it seems to you. It seems you’ve been at this a while. Really good content.
Your best video yet!
Yo, I love that part about the wedding at Caana. Adds even more to the symbolism I already knew about it.
Great video, as always, Jonathan!
This is a bit of a different line than the one pursued in the video, but during your discussion of the final scene with the cutting of the foreskin, it reminded me of Abraham and Isaac. E.g. that God is laying out the grounds, to the effect of "You must be prepared to sacrifice what is most precious to you." Although Isaac wasn't technically the firstborn, the pattern of sacrifice from that story might be the same one Moses intended to follow: the Lord seeking to kill him (Moses' child) was the pattern of giving up to God that which you love most. But here, we get the intervention from the mother, offering the foreskin (and all the garments of flesh that go with it) as a replacement for the sacrific of the son.
Forgive my ignorance of the Bible, but if this is the "invention" of circumcision, it would also seem to indicate the Jews making the symbolic leap from sacrificing the whole to sacrificing the part.
I wondered about that child sacrifice parallel, too! You shed more light on it
Brilliant video as always, thank you and God bless!
Wow this is a lot to grasp. I love this
Thank you Jonathan
Wow; the part about turning water to wine and the death off the firstborn was great! Thanks for doing this series!
Spot on.
✨💚✨☯️✨💚✨
This is so incredibly valuable. What you do here. It is an incredible gift Jonathan. But I will say, what has helped me immensely in understanding these talks, is reading Mark Vernon's book The Secret History of Christianity... and also studying the work of Owen Barfield.
Hey Jonathan. Have you ever made a video about the symbolism of the 10 sefirot/tree of life?
Cool, good point of view...
I will also add that the first place I was introduced to these concepts was in the work of Rudolf Steiner. Particularly his lectures on the Gospel of St John. I know Steiner had some pretty far out ideas, but both he and Barfield were in communication and were working on similar ideas. It's good to at least acknowledge these things and remain open. If were it were not for Steiner I would never have opened myself to Christianity in the first place. It was a pointer towards it's deeper and much richer mystery tradtions. Many of which lay hidden in underground groups such as the Rosecrutians and the Knights Templar... and embedded in the Percival stories.
This is mind boggling how epic this is. It pieces together so much. I love the explanation of plundering Egypt in the service of higher being, which is exactly what happened....
Egypt v Israelites, Romans v semites, Nazis v Jews. The story continues.
Jonathan, please please please bring back the reading list on your website!! I was working my way through it!!!
Amazing!
What we need right now from the Pageau brothers is to keep their ideas and symbolic approach as objective and independent as possible. Any doubts? Foreign non-christian pre-conceptualized ideas have unfortunately stolen JBP's unique and original point of view.
Who is JBP? Is that Jordan Peterson?
@@lausdeo4944 Yes.
So what foreign non-christian pre-conceptualized idea stole JBP's original PoV?
“Pageau brothers” is a subject(s). Telling your subject to be “objective” is a contradictory demand.
Personally, I and my family came to the Orthodox Church initially because of Pageau, and so of course I enjoy his more Orthodox oriented content and tend to get more bored with the secular conversations.
God gave us (human beings) a strong will which is great but if not used correctly can work against us. We lack the ability to nature which should be our foundational truth, we at this point already make it hard for us to elevate spiritually.
We can even plunder the wealth of the Egyptians via information technology, language standardization, etc; amazin'
49:20. This was God order. God reached Moses at is willingness to be conscious spiritually. So Aaron was given the same opportunity to remain conscious spiritually. Aaron life is a visual of one, that at some point made a decision not to make the spiritual transition
Could it be that the hands in the heart is a representation of the lots and sacrifices? One good and one bad? One healthy and one diseased? It's sort of laying out what to do when people don't follow you. You speak to them, you tell them things may go wrong, and if they don't listen then you create a sort of chaos through goodness which is perhaps revolutionary like martyrdom?
Thanks
Here's how I understand some of these themes: The mountain in consciousness. The higher up the mopuntain one goes, the less ego-clutter/garments/false identityis associated with. The top of the mountain is pure being wthout any further content. You could say that in meditation one goes up the mountain, and in the moments where there's just pure being, you're at the top.
As far as the firstborn:I think that's an image of that in us which we initially associate with, which is again the ego-self, false identity with it's garments and sandals, if you will. The bible repeats this pattern quite a bit, but the most obvious one is the first Adam and the last Adam, which are images of these 2 identities. The firstborn (ego, attachments to anything other than ultimate reality), or first Adam, needs to be sacrificed for reality (last Adam) to resurrect in us.
It's so tempting to take all these texts in the bible literally as hitorical events. Well the thing is that we have no way of knowing that they occurred historically. Many of these stories are so strange that they bear no resemblance to every day reality anyway. If you don't see how they apply to you then they're useless.
Anyway just my $0,2
What was the church -St Thomas the apostle- the beautiful worship that was in the ad before Jonathan came on? Is there a link to it?
Can anyone tell me what is the name of the into song?
So on the section about Moses' son and the circumcision and such, could it be seen as God essentially saying, "You need to have your own house in order before you confront the Egyptians on the same thing"?
Will the Dailywire videos of JP be free after some months? Otherwise it is one too many subscriptions to the common man.
I am,
therefore,
I am
Gold
Is there a relationship between the hand going out and coming from disease and Moses leaving and returning to the Israelites? He commits murder, impurity, and goes out and then to come back he has to circumcise his son to purify his disease and reunite the people?
So, if Moses had been in the garden at the moment of the temptation, and picked up the serpent by the tail, would it have turned into a stick? Just spit-balling here...
I never understood until now that it's the riches they plunder from the Egyptians that they later melt down to create the Golden Calf.
Is that correct?
Thanks for the wonderful video. Do you happen to know of a good English translation of St. Gregory's Commentary? The repetitive nature of the story, and indeed of God, made me think of Kierkegaard's "Repetition." Highly recommend the book to anyone who's interested in exploring repetition as return to God.
Personally I find the Harper Collins Spiritual Classics version to be better than the Paulist Press Classics of Western Spirituality version. I would advise going for the Harper Collins, with the foreword by Silas House.
@@joer9156 Thanks!
Milk and honey was a particular treat in ancient Egyptian culture. The chocolate milk of that time.
@41:00 the excess of purity would be what it is to not cast your crown. the opposite would be if abraham killed isaac
Random comment, but do you recommend Christian thinkers to follow? I see soo much deception in media they I dont know what to follow...
Orthodox thinkers. Father Josiah at patristic nectar. Tristagon films. Father Bailey. Lord of spirits podcast is good. If you're looking for deeper rigorous breakdown of theology Jay Dyer
Moses' fear of public speaking was so crippling that he told God straight up, "yo, I cain't"...
Jonathan - This isn't a gotcha question, just one I'd earnestly like answered since I respect your work greatly. I heard what sounded like a contradiction, or even dishonesty, in one of your interviews regarding a book you said you'd been reading. In your interview with Alastair Roberts in 2019, you claimed to have read "a large part of" James Jordan's Through New Eyes (timestamp: 0:38); however, in an April 2022 interview with Jordan Cooper, you said you'd received the book years ago but only now starting read it (timestamp: 24:43). Can you explain this discrepancy? On its face, it sounds like you were exaggerating to the point of dishonesty when speaking to Alastair Roberts, but I'd much rather there be another explanation.
Hypothetically if I was an archetype of the Prophet Daniel, that would mean that God(through me) probably has a profound effect on the system I'm operating in. Shouldn't I be found and guided to the correct path. Just imagine a world with an isolated and neglected Daniel that wields the power God gave to the Ancient Daniel. Food for thought..
make sure you do not use the word fractal when you talk to Milo ! re. tim pool interview. lol . love your work Jonathan im joining the Orthodox Church because of you and others.
I wonder if it's ambiguous on whether it was Moses or the son of Moses who was sought to be killed because Moses and Zipporah didn't know themselves, and that knowledge was intentionally kept away from them
Is it possible that God was angry at Moses because his son wasn't circumcised? I'm trying to get an insight into God's anger in that part of the story and it occurred to me that we are responsible for our children. If we don't take the proper action to and for our children, could that be part of the meaning of what made God angry? Then the foreign woman had the insight to do the right thing which is to correct Moses inattention to his son's form?
I thought his wife got upset when he circumcised them.
Could it be that God says that Aaron is going to call Moses God because he is the Mouth/Word/Logos of Moses just like Jesus Christ the Son incarnate is the 'Word of God' for the Father whom he calls 'My God'?
So would you say that the removal of the sandals is an act of humility - of becoming completely vulnerable yet with some amount of trust (faith?) ... and then the covering of the face .... to me this happens again and again in the Bible every time God says, "Ok, Ok, I'll show myself to you .... BUT ....", like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" .... "You can't handle the truth!" ... the full truth is too much for our minds to bear. It's a capacity issue. For while we are created in the image of God, we're still subsets, if you will. The ultimate transcendence is something we can reach for and ponder what it might be like, but we cannot grasp it.
Do you need to believe in God to appreciate this type of content? Any aethiests find this content fascinating?
The Fire Is represented our Lord and the Bush is His Holy Mother The Virgin Mary, how She isn't consumed by the flames because she is pure and without sin.
What’s the importance of God being masculine?
My head is spinning
Hmmm. I got overly high on marijuana one night and I saw with my third eye myself going around in circles from Gods greatness to outer darkness around and around as I dealt with aspects of myself I didn’t like. I noticed in Gods greatness I felt as though I needed no one and that sent me around back down to darkness in which I felt like there was nothing and no one, but slowly I would remember those I love and my desire to be with them and appreciate them for who they were (good and bad) and realized that I have to accept the darkness if I’m to enjoy the light, and as I did this I saw gods light and remembered not to get too close and I saw myself as a small aspect of this light and I looked around and I saw more lights like myself gathering near. There was a sweet spot of love like a Crosses cross-section (the location of how close to get) a cross is a map, and it was here that I saw myself become a translucent version of Mother Mary with gods light around my head and from my heart space a golden light began birthing the Christ child from my breast. I realized this is what the virgin birth meant. I had balanced myself (masculine and feminine) and I gave birth to love for those around me. And from behind christ babies face his twin brother peaked out with a wicked smile as if to say, “don’t forget that good and evil must co exist if you are to choose life”. But I choose life and I choose to be a vessel for God to enjoy what it means to live in love and joy. I see the burning bush differently and that picture of Mary you showed I believe I experienced in person what the ancestors tried to explain.
Why do we want to think that people back then actually understood all these symbols and could recognize what Moses was supposed to tell his people as either God or anything at all?
If the snake was the reason for the fall, why would God use this for positive things or representative of him or his ways? It's inappropriate to compare the snake rod as a means of healing (comparison with Asklepios; that comes later somehow in the form of the brazen serpent totem/ward).
Sin crucified is the Gnostic symbol of the snake on the cross, right which later came to be used in occultism?
Every time you say "Saint John the forerunner" I hear "Saint John the foreigner"
Funny how his symbolism is similar to that of a foreigner, both being on the periphery.
Honestly, even when you have domesticated bees, it still feels wild, after all why would the people who tend to them have to tame them with smoke and wear protective suits?
Hebrews 7:14((N.L.T.))🦸🏻♂️
Is that like honey in the lion in samson?
This might sound like a far reach, but for some reason I'm hearing your words (about patterns of reality) in this Cell biology-lecture. Here a biologist suggests that the way everything works is not just about bottom up information, but also about top down. He has also been a guest of Lex Fridman. ruclips.net/video/jLiHLDrOTW8/видео.html
This is great, though I think we run into blocks whenever we anthropomorphise God, as "he"
I get why we use the masculine, due to the symbolism, but I sense many will switch off at that point, thinking you are talking about the proverbial bearded man in clouds.
Am I the only one here who can’t follow?!? 😅 is there an easier version for me???
Is your belief like Catholicism?
Milk and honey!😮
I'm still at the beginning; why would God consume the world by being in it? Jesus didn't do that ... 🤔
Jesus reconciles the world to God through his incarnation, death and resurrection by taking on human nature and sanctifying it (deifying it in his own person), and overcoming death (because death and hades could not hold the God-man) and bring human nature to the right hand of God in heaven with his death and resurrection. So God restores the correct relationship between God and His creation. That’s the best I can do; there are others who can explain better!
Can you have Graham Hancock on your show?
So does this mean that when the golden calf is worshiped, when it is made the object of worship, You end up with cult following of "anti-racism"?, "LGBTQ"? There is nothing wrong at all with loving those that you aren't like. I see a problem when St Christopher is made savior, I see a problem when "our social saviors" display primarily arrogance, I see a problem when unity is sacrificed for the weakest in a time of plenty. "You MUST worship this calf and provide avocado toast!- your god is dead."
This is all articulated is the teachings of the church in folds, no need to add confusing interpretations. Do your ICONS but keep the ideas in your heart cause you are not the authority in interpretations.
Have you spoken about the potential irony, of Israel now becoming a tyrannical state of it's own?
Origen is overrated, Jonathan Pageau is way better.
animality, goodness me. Incohesive. Beware losing your light in the search for symbolic meaning.
Ten minutes in and nothing he is saying witnesses to my spirit as true.
Thanks Jonathan!