Even as an atheist and a communist and an overall ex sh1tlib I never for once supported abortion, I had so many fights over this because they just couldn't understand why I was so against and vocal over this.. And I just couldn't understand how they could argue that just because the geographic location of a human is a uterus it's ethical to kill that unwanted baby instead of just giving it for adoption. After many years, we were about to have a child, because of some genetic condition we thought our child had 25% chance to be born with a serious health condition, we had an exam at the 3rd month, my wife wanted abortion if it showed a problem, and I was against it... So as I was alone in my car after a fight over this, I said, God if you even exist, make this child to be healthy... Fast forward my little daughter is healthy, I became a Christian. And on top of everything recently we discovered that my wife also had a super rare genetic condition that we didn't even test for at the time, our child truly was miraculous against all odds, and didn't even know it
I used to accept the libertarian argument of bodily autonomy and only wished they'd be honest and if they could just admit it's cold blooded murder, but now they lost the libertarian argument after pushing covid mandates. The hypocrisy is frustrating when I see them still saying "my body my choice" I don't accept it anymore because they broke the libertarian deal. They showed they have no principles. It really comes down to their belief geriatric lives are more important than baby's lives. They have to believe it or else they are just power based without a moral foundation at all and it comes down to who can vote.
Through my life I’ve flirted with many different beliefs but one constant is I never supported abortion. It always felt gross to me. I knew it was because it is the murder of the unborn, and it shouldn’t have to be explained any further. Yet I’ve always struggled to explain it without people getting aggressive and thinking I don’t support rights of a woman, AND I’M A WOMAN. Now I completely understand it was intuition and empathy for the child. It is human sacrifice, no matter why it’s done.
In a New Polity podcast they talked about how christianity took this need we have to sacrifice, which God himself used in the Old Testament, and transformed it in the only form of sacrifice that is actually pleasing to God, which is self sacrifice. And we offer it up to God everyday in Holy Mass.
Thank you Johnathan. I really appreciate how you are able to minimize criticism of the new atheist type to a minimum while helping the more open minded in thier ranks understand reality a bit better. I really respect your approach in these discussions
Thank you for your channel. After listening, I sat down and wrote this: If sacrifice is inevitable during the duration of our human experience, wouldn’t it be prudent to examine to what end, to what purpose we are sacrificing? Take the practice of abortion, which is literally a human sacrifice. To what greater purpose is this practice of sacrifice serving, and to what greater purpose is the refusal of this practice serving? One way or the other, a sacrifice will be made. In most cases of abortion, not including medical emergencies placing the mother in grave danger, the female is seeking freedom from the burden of responsibility to care for another life. She is placing bets on her life being better off without the burgeoning inside of her, and concludes it’s an obstacle that needs removing. I don’t view lightly the heaviness of this burden, especially if it is brought about by the worst of circumstances. The unwillingness to abort brings it’s own sacrifice, and definitely a sacrifice of the human sort. The mother, her family, her community and society will sacrifice of themselves to allow for another life and these sacrifices will be many. I would ask, which one of these sacrifices are working in us a more nobler and admirable end? If life ever throws us females a curveball like an unintended pregnancy, may we search our hearts and souls for the response that isn’t just about us and not strictly self-serving, but calls from the purest source of goodness. A response that recognizes in truth and clarity, much like the butterfly effect, what seems like a minuscule decision could have large-scale implications well beyond just our human constitution. May such a dilemma beg a response that when we look back on that decision, we don’t feel shame, or haunting regret, but heartwarming relief that the right sacrifice had been made. It is not a badge of honor that upwards of 500,000 abortions are performed in America yearly. These numbers should stagger us, should propel us with love to find what has caused such brokenness and strive to mend it. May God help us and may we remember, history has it’s eyes on us.
Wow, that was a very sober, honest and grounded view on this very tenuous issue. I once held a very cold, cavalier and materialistic view toward abortion. Something that I find to be quite evil in retrospect. I've matured and rediscovered my connection with the divine but this question I think is best answered by a woman. You're response is one of the best I've come across.
Of all things, Family Guy encapsulates the principles here well, where Meg is essential the scapegoat for everything wrong with their messed-up family, and keeps them together and functioning
people like to think human sacrifice was barbaric when ancient people did it, because they believe our societies stopped doing/behaving so. what are 98% of abortions, if not the sacrifice of a life to will into existence a more desirable future for those who remain? that was Always the nature of human sacrifice.
@@maxsiehier but still, you are often pushed by others to sacrifice yourself. This is proved by the fact that 99% ascetics devote their life to the god of their country/culture
Great job Jonathan- I think this is super interesting on a structural level and I will be watching again for sure. I still think Girard has more to offer than what you highlighted here. his emphasis on Mimesis and the Affective psychotic state that leads to the original violence and enables justificatory myths and rituals to cover over the truth is super important and helpful to understanding darker patterns of being we can fall into. you say “self sacrifice” but I think it is better stated as sacrifice of desire. Girard Identifies mimetic desire as coming from outside of ourselves like how temptation in the garden came from the snake not inside eves mind or body. Temptation also implies it’s something outside us that gets inside of us to lead us astray. Girard’s focus on mimesis also helps understand why we have to commit to imitating Christ because we can’t help but be mimetic. If we are imitating him we will be closed off to mimetic desire from others. His focus on violence and how myths arise also point to the need to be constantly on guard and cognizant that we innately vulnerable to falling into affective engulfment in which our minds will tell us stories that feel true but are not true. Maybe who you are and how grounded in your faith you are makes that aspect of his theory of ritual violence less relevant then it is to someone who has lived more in the passion of mimetic desire and the consequences of it . The concept of Mimesis and the relationship between affective states and myths helps me understand a lot of my life. I can vouch that Mythmaking happens on an individual level to construct personal narratives that justify, explain or maintain mimetic desire and the psychosis of passion it provokes ( ;
That does sound super helpful. Do you know anyone else who did a video on this? And if people find out of it - what would be the perquisites for starting to realize and accept one's mistakes? Also: Great description of narcissism. Maybe you will enjoy Sam Vaknins perspective on this.
Bro I was one of the first dudes to take psychedelics and discover stuff I could only confirm by finding Girards theories. Three years ago I was championing Girard like he was my daddy, and everyone got super pissed off and called both me and Girard retarded.
@@knowledgeallah You and everyone else have 2 and 1/2 years at most before the Earth goes through 3 massive pole shifts.It will also stop rotating for 3 days..Depending on location many humans will be the next Wolly Mammoths...
This understanding is extremely valuable to me, thank you for all you do Jonathan. Or, it may be more proper to say, thank you for all that you sacrifice to understand and impart this valuable wisdom to us. I pray that, having received it, we (your viewers) may be empowered to discern and offer more meaningful and genuine sacrifices to God.
I find this very eye opening and insightful. Sacrifice makes so much more sense on so many levels now; whether it's being done to survive, initiate a group member, to fit it or get rid of an outcast/threat, all while universally finding scapegoats for our issues. You've managed to explain complex levels of sacrifice in a clear, thought-out way ... so thank you 👍
Very profound. Very enlightening. Your discourses on symbolism are like a sommelier breaking down all the flavour nuances in a fine wine. It takes a pro. Merci Jonathan!
@@WillEnd96 spending resources to """fix""" the symptom will just waste a ton of resources and not fix the problem spend those resources on educating people to not make/get pregnant when you don't want to but i know that won't happen. despite the best efforts of some people, the flood is coming and i'm looking forward to it :)
Thinking of actuarial science now. As a society, we are willing to decide how many safeguards are required based on the probability of how many humans will be sacrificed. This is brilliant, Jonathan.
Great video. You really explored the various forms of sacrifice and how they relate to the modern world. Unless I missed it, I think it is important to understand our Indo-European word for sacrifice. It comes from the Latin for "To Make (facio) Sacred (sacri)." Back in the 70s when I was working on my masters in Anthropology, I did a class presentation on Upper Paleolithic Cave art. Hopefully, I can remember what I gave back then. One of the explanations was that the cave artists understood that when an animal was killed for the group's nourishment that the spiritual order of the natural world was disrupted. Rituals were conducted in the dark recess of the "womb" of the earth to restore the spiritual order which included replacing the animal by painting a representation on the wall of the cave. Getting back "To Make Sacred," this not only restored the spiritual order but also raised, as you noted, the ritual participants directly into the spiritual realm. Of course, today, we still celebrate every week a human sacrifice to make ourselves and the Cosmos sacred. Most Christians (Catholic, Orthodox and some Protestants) believe that on the Altar of the Lord's Supper that we leave Time behind and actually participate directly in the eternal death of Jesus. When we participate in the "Breaking of the Bread," it is in reality the Body of Jesus that is being broken. We are no longer on earth and by taking Communion, are sharing in the Banquet of the Lord that is eternally on-going in Heaven. But participating in the ritual of the Lord's Supper is not enough, we must imitate the paradigmatic model of Jesus by also laying on our own selves on the altar with all of our sins and good actions we do as we try to follow Jesus' example of self-sacrifice. I always thought that Christianity is the "original religion." It has still retained the original sacrificial nature of the ancient religions in all aspects.
@@mjvictoriano Basically what I mean is that revealed Christianity incorporates and fulfills the correct teachings and the rituals of the ancient religions which were arrived at by natural reason. Christianity is a religion that its new adherents feel comfortable with because they see the reflection of their previous beliefs and rites but with a sense of a Father overflowing with Love.
@@tomredd9025 for someone who supposedly studied the subject I find it awful strange that you would say this rather than acknowledging the obvious which is that Christian, via Judaism, merely copied most of the elements that were found in the Indo-European tradition (e.g the primordial sacrifice of the Divine Twins) from France to India, most likely by way of the Babylonian captivity, and the New Treatment writers in the 1st and 2nd Centuries AD added in a lot of Greek elements. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_cosmogony#Myths - ruclips.net/video/xKPMeIojJVk/видео.html Far from being the "original religion", Hebraic monotheism is a far downstream lower-resolution reflection of the same.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug You may not know this but Hebrew is a Semitic language (like Arabic) and is definitely not an Indo-European language. Completely different ancient roots and origin. You may also not know that the Babylonians, Assyrians etc. also spoke a Semitic Language called Akkadian or was derived from it. Again, no connection to any Indo-European language. You may also not know that the original language of Mesopotamia before Akkadian was Sumerian. Sumerian is a language isolate. This means that there is absolutely no connection to any other language on earth. It is one of the great mysteries in the study of languages. Tha Basques language of northern Spain and southern France is also a language isolate but is not related to Sumerian. I encourage you to study language origins. It is fascinating and will help you not being snookered by persons drawing tenuous connections that may or may not be there.
@@tomredd9025 I mean no offense, but there is a deep irony that we are talking about language and you clearly were not able to properly read my last comment. I am fully aware of the nature of the Hebrew and Sumerian language is, but I was not talking about linguistics. The connection is not through etymology, but through cultural contact. The Jews picked up the mythological forms and cultural structures from the Babylonians, not because they were speaking their language but because they were living in their lands, in the same way that the Native Americans picked up culture from the European Pioneers without having to speak the same language. It is indisputable, to anyone that is actually studied the subject, of the influence of the Mesopotamian creation myth, which themselves were influenced by the hittite myths of the Indo-European strain, on the stories and books of the Hebrew Bible. I suppose it is my turn to say that I would encourage you to study the subject, since it is quite interesting. Cheers.
I was waiting for this essay since he made his 2020 analysis comparing the adulation of George Floyd to the choosing of Barabbas over Jesus Christ. Once you understand the core ideas of human sacrifice, even a little, a lot of things happening these days begin to make sense: essentially we're being asked to take part in and celebrate a series of sacrifices (cancel culture, communist scapegoating, abortion, ritual stigmatizing of the unjabbed, war in Ukraine,...) as part of a giant, worldwide ritual that turn the Christian Sacrifice on its head. It's like a giant death cult; the same death that Christ conquered so that we can all be free of its grip. I argue that this global, thinly veiled ritual, is how people of the world will be ultimately seduced by the spirit of the Antichrist and how the faithful will be persecuted and possibly wiped off the map. I've yet a lot to learn and investigate on that front. We shall see.
Thanks Jonathan. This is a huge and important topic. I'll start by agreeing with the person below who distinguished between sacrificing something that is one's own and something that isn't. It might also be interesting to distinguish between economic sacrifice and social/existential. My main point, however, has to do with your discussion of George Floyd, because I sense that there are some extremely curious and counterintuitive (from Girard's point of view anyway) things going on. As you know, Girard claimed that the Gospels weakened the scapegoat mechanism by affirming the innocence of the victim. And, for the scapegoat mechanism to work well (as in dissipate the mimetic violence that can lead to the war of all against all), the victim must be seen as culpable. He must, in other words, be seen as a legitimate target for the violence of all against one. Thus, Girard pointed out that an ironic effect of the Gospel would be an increase in violence, until the Gospel work is accomplished. Now as you point out, the function of the scapegoat mechanism is to bind those killing the victim. This did not happen in G. F.'s case. Indeed, it did bind certain segments of society, but produced profound divisions as well. It appears to have galvanized much of the black community, but divided "white" society as a whole. And since BLM identified GF as a victim of white systemic racism, it should have had precisely the opposite effect (if BLM and RG are right). Moreover, GF's death as scapegoat should have led to a lessening of societal violence, but instead led to a drastic increase. It was interesting, too, that when Candace Owens called GF's character into question, she was mobbed by those who wanted to treat him as an innocent victim. Maybe, then, we should see the GF phenomenon as an example of a failed scapegoat (or failing scapegoat) mechanism, where this kind of death leads to increased violence, increased division. Anyway, I would be interested to hear you speak more of this. My sense is that we are moving away from the violence of all against all, and towards the violence of tribe against tribe. This speaks, as you point out, to a break down in the higher order being. Perhaps there is no longer a merely human sacrifice that can save our society at this point.
I wouldn't say GF was a human sacrifice, more like an accidental death which does not give it the same gravitas. A sacrifice needs to be intentional, it must be something that the person or group deem valuable. So no GF was not a sacrifice, nor a scapegoat he was an artificially created icon whose death was used by some as an excuse for venting bottled up frustration and dissatisfaction, whilst others used it as a means to justify sacrificing free speech.
Jeremiah 20:14 **CURSED** be the day in which I was BORN! Let the day **NOT** be BLESSED in which my **MOTHER GAVE BIRTH** to me! Jeremiah 20:15 **CURSED** be the man (doctor) who brought THE [GOOD] NEWS to MY FATHER, “A CHILD, A SON, HAS BEEN BORN to you!” filling him with GREAT JOY. -(WOW!) Jeremiah 20:17 if (the doctor) had **KILLED ME** while I was **IN THE WOMB**. Then **MY MOTHER** would have been my **GRAVE,** and her WOMB an **EVERLASTING PREGNANCY** (commentary says his mothers womb likened to a CASKET!) BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE OT AS SOME SORT OF CHRISTIAN TRUTH - WE DO NOT FOLLOW IT FOR A REASON, AND DO NOT PRAY TO THEM AS CANONIZED SAINTS IN HEAVEN: Jeremiah 4:10 “You are **ADONAI YAHWEH,** So WHY have you **DECEIVED** everyone, ESPECIALLY the people of Jerusalem? Jeremiah 20:7 You **DECEIVED** me, O YAHWEH, and I was **DECEIVED.** Ezekiel 14:9 If a PROPHET speaks a **DECEIVING** word, **I YAHWEH** am **THE ONE WHO DECEIVED** that prophet. I will.. **DESTROY HIM** from the midst of my people Israel.
Commenting mid way =). From a moral perspective I think there are two types of sacrifice: 1. Something that is "yours" 2. Something that is not yours First one feels holy and proper, especially if sacrifice is "up" in Jonathans terminology. I think most people share this insight intuitively. Besides this, you can sacrifice what is yours, or you can demand others to sacrifice what is theirs. In the covid crisis, taking the vaccine is a "sacrifice" or was viewed as such. Then people demanded that others make a sacrifice which in my opinion distorted and perverted the concept of sacrifice.
Hi David, Thanks for commenting. You've drawn the distinction between sacrificing something that is "yours" versus "not yours." Have you considered this pattern within one person's life: present moment (yours) versus future moment (not yours)? Maybe one level up from this would be: present life (yours) versus future afterlife (not yours).
This may be the single most profound, deeply profound, analysis of the human condition - or shall I say of the gravity of our sin condition - that I've had the privilege of listening to. The Christ Jesus remedy and it's model for all of us today finds greater illumination in pondering the truth exposed in this extremely provocative and disturbing discussion. Thank you Jonathan. It will take me several listenings to fully savour and digest this solid food.
First video I’ve come across of yours. First time ever looking into the purpose of human sacrifices. Thank you for this very pertinent information. I look forward to browsing your channel!
@@Felipe-kv8qd right, but I think it’s still the ritualized aspect of murder. When a person’s ability to speak on social media is removed or someone gets them fired from their job, etc., these can be seen as ways of committing or at least attempting murder without actually murdering the person. The same effect is had but in lower ways without the higher cost. Would you agree?
Within the framework Jonathan is presenting here, I’d say absolutely. It’s the desire to cast out the “problematic viewpoint(s)” in order for the group to feel safe from that view. The viewpoints are attached to certain people/outgroups and rather than outright killing them, they are instead ostracized from some platform or other privilege.
@@wesley3300 I think it will switch to bloodshed in the next few years. Cancel culture is just the warm up. It's drawing lines in the sand to see if they have enough power to move forward with what they want to do.
Infanticed was an almost universal pratice but, most of that, is caused only very secular reason (as a preference by boy than girls). In the roman empire there was much more adults males than female because of that. See these data in Voitheia Ruc channel.
Thank you so much Jonathan for helping me understand all this again. You explained this all in a very thoroughly intelligible way, one of the best explorations of a concept I've seen you take on. The bits about criminal gang initiation bindings and how the scandal affords this was especially insightful. I absolutely love the truth of the way you describes how this works, the deeply organic and spatial way of seeing it and reality that I think is one of the most real and true and beautiful ways of understanding reality. I can sacrifice myself much more readily and even joyously when I understand it as something I and everyone and everything already does constantly in order to exist at higher levels of unity (and on a cosmic gradient e.g. a body, a family, a clan, a city, a nation, the human race, the earth, the galaxy, the cosmos, all the emanating primordial causes / forms / patterns shaping the former, God), e.g. through time and loving attention for one, and most importantly by understanding it not as a negation for its own sake or for God as an abstract moral judge but for the sake of the highest / most encompassing reality, its unity and sustainability and expansion, which is the cosmos + that which gives it essence and existence both, i.e. God. This is (Christian) Panentheism at its best, most intelligible, and most affording of kenotic love (and in Whitehead's phrase, world loyalty, understood in the deepest and most encompassing sense).
Quick (political) comment on the George Floyd reference. Nancy Pelosi literally said in some memorial service, "Thank you, George Floyd, for sacrificing yourself/your life for justice.". I'm not sure we've entirely seen the totality of whatever "justice" she's referencing here, but I'm not sure I want to.
It seems that there is also some kind of sacrifice of policemen related to these events. And there seem to be some kind of inversion and perversion in the structure of this sacrifice.
Wow. This is sad. Brings shivers down my spine. And to have the gall to word it that way during the ceremony. That's some dark stuff man. Sheesh! Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison.
Call myself an agnostic. But I can also admit that there’s a lot of wisdom in this video. I think Jonathan has a very clear sober interpretation of human behavior.
I've been constantly thinking about this for the past two weeks especially because I myself am beginning to make videos on the development of early religions throughout the Neolithic and ancient periods of human history.
My tiny contribution: It wasn't just a "member of the Sanhedrin" who suggested that it would be "better for one man to die" than for the nation to perish. It was Caiaphas "who was high priest that year" (John 11:49f). Not a coincidence, though unwitting on his part.
It is said that since he was the high priest that year, he had the gift of prophecy. It is one of the many proofs that the Christian priesthood is the continuity of the priesthood of the Old Testament.
@@gabrielparent In so saying, he thereby MADE the sacrifice happen; it was this decision that formally initiated Jesus' death. (And I hasten to add that MY sins sent him to the cross, and the Romans actually crucified him, lest I be accused of antisemitism or something here.)
The wise shepherd chooses his most perfect lamb as a sacrifice to offer up to God. And even a perfect lamb is lifted still higher upon his being sacrificed. Christ embodied both the perfect being and utter self-sacrifice. Scapegoating is the inversion of this: a flawed man is sacrificed against his will.
Unwittingly?!?! Jesus said….Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. 5And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. 6He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the HEIR. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be OURS. Pilate said they were jealous of him. Anti-Semitism, brotherly hate, is what led to the Civil War that destroyed the temple. Even the disciples were backbiting each other. Jews were not a unified whole at this time. There is a much more brotherly love, live and let live mentality amongst Jews today. Backbiting, self-righteousness, My Way Or The Highway mentalities have affected and destroyed every tribe FROM WITHIN on this planet at some point. This is just the nature of fallen man, and it’s not anti Semitic to acknowledge it.
@@knowyourlove5613 He was of course blameworthy, but Caiaphus did not know that Jesus was the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world, did not know that as High Priest he was in effect offering him in sacrifice. (Jesus says, Father, forgive them; they don't know what they are doing.)
I watched a portion live and then came back to watch the whole thing to take it all in. Jonathan made some interesting points that never occurred to me like the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I never considered those as acts of human sacrifice, but it seems rather plain to me now. Much like many of your videos before, I expect to see this pattern throughout my life. Thank you for opening my eyes to this, but helping me see that self-sacrifice is the right pattern to participate in.
Dan Carlin has a huge podcast series on the Pacific War called "Supernova in the East". He makes the analogy of the War as runaway industrial killing machine. The Atom Bomb was a way to throw something into the machine to cause it to stop. Definitely a sacrifice, even Truman and his generals felt that way too I think. Otherwise we would have had to take Japan & Tokyo one inch at a time, like the Soviets did Berlin. The Bombs saved countless more American and Japanese lives than who perished.
@@Okie8T9 Do look into where the Japanese Christians were centred to see one way in which the bomb served the interests of the Americans and the Japanese alike.
I took LSD years ago and learned all of this stuff, it scared the shit out of me. I tried to convert to Orthodox but couldnt stay off the Acid and Shrooms. This is the content ive been waiting for. Human sacrifice 101.
Thank you Jonathan! I am so very impressed by your courage to call abortion for what it is. I feel sorry for all the women who hare duped into this. But I have not time for the selfishness of the rest of society that has no better solution to offer to these women than sacrificing their babies.
"Be careful what you worship. For a man will worship something." (A saying of, as I understand it, uncertain origin, often attributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Anyone remember those girls who killed or tried to kill someone in order to summon Slenderman? We're still trying to sacrifice people to get what we want. Wild how so many miss that, even though I understand why they do
no creo que el canadience sepa mucho sobre eso, igual es interesante que rituales parecidos a los de yucatan y esos lares son muy parecidos a rituales encontrados en todo el mundo, especialmente en Mesopotamia, pareciera que ese tipo de sacrificios fueron parte de todas las civilizaciones. Una vez escuche que los ingleses no solían dar nombre a los niños de menos de 4 años, por que se morían tanto que no valía la pena. Quizás lo que pasaba en la antigüedad es que los niños no se consideraban personas todavía y por eso no tenían tanto problema en sacrificarlos, teniendo en cuenta que tenían una alta tasa de mortalidad, pero eso es solo especulación mía.
Yep. All that stuff is crazy and super dark and twisted. It makes me sort of grateful that it's changed from that. It's not perfect, and it wasn't a clean transition, but at least you don't have to worry about being slaughtered for "tha gods."
@@Sahl-Amander The whole thesis of the video is that it's not "changed from that" at all. Jesus Christ offered the solution to this problem but the world rejected Him. People like you feel as though this world has "transitioned" from "tha gods" because their own religious intuition has been blunted (by design). As a consequence, whenever "tha gods" come to slaughter them, they don't even realize what's happening.
I was just researching this topic after your talk with Paul, since it reminded me of something I’d read before and I had started to see the connections between them - I can’t remember the exact name of the episode though, but nevertheless this talk came at the perfect time!! Thank you so much :)
You should talk to Rollo Tommasi who has made a similar case in his book: The Rational Male: Religion And in his podcasts where he decries abortion as a modern feminist womans foolish and evil attempt to kill in order to continue partying and attempt to find the best man they can. Abortion is hypergamy.
@@stephenpaccone8120 I ment no disrespect, I merely want my most interesting online influencers to colide so I can see what manafests. I'm a frequent customer and former patron of Jonathan. I know I'm not his boss. Perhaps one day if i don't get my wish I'll resubscribe as his patron and ask on their about it.
Great discourse as of 35:04… i am hoping this goes into depth on the significance of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ which turns all human ideas of it “on its own head.” Ha! What a sacrificial saying. Never thought about it like that til now
Great explanation. You've once again, put intelligent words and examples to hard to swallow topics. However, If Aunt betty brings her spaghetti O casserole to thanksgiving dinner.......one more time!!!!!, I'm nominating her for the next volcano drop!
Every action entails sacrifice. Its how reality functions. The question isn’t whether or not we sacrifice humans, its about what aspect of sacrifice has the highest value. Christ showed us that the highest form of sacrifice is self-sacrifice. Its an inversion of the ancient worldview. So rather than offer others up to God we offer ourselves to others as an embodiment of Gods love. Sacrifice is not an option, its all about the hierarchy.
This video is instrumental. I've shared it with those that seem open. Even if they only give it 15 minutes I know it's an eye opener. They will find it again
Hey Jonathan, content is great, S Tier! Not a fan of the new synthwave opening. Does not detract from the video, I just always appreciated your opening. Keep doing what your doing.
Great video. One quibble: George Floyd OD'd. He had enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse. He was having difficulty breathing before he got on the ground. The coroner found no damage to his trachea and said that if this body had been brought to him with no context, he would have said definitely OD. Derek Chauvin weighed about 100 lbs less than George Floyd, and a different camera angle showed his knee not on Floyd 's neck but on his shoulder. Derek Chauvin was the actual scapegoat in that situation. He was one whose blood the mobs were screaming for.
I think the issue is that as a police officer, it was Chavin's duty to assist someone who was in the midst of a medical emergency. He was no longer a threat with 4 officers present. Chauvin failed to do his duty as a first responder and at best could be charged with failure to assist and at worst negligent homicide. If Floyd wasn't detained, he probably would have gotten help in time. The detainment hastened his death. I don't think he murdered him but he certainly didn't help.
@@dahliaherrod4301 I have certainly heard those arguments. I've also heard that, when someone is high, they can go from passed out to rearing up with supercharged strength in a second. It's a very unpredictable, volatile situation. Additionally, Chauvin was dealing with a crowd gathered around yelling, another volatile situation that also made it hard to hear. He and his fellow officers had been talking with Flloyd for about 20 minutes at that point, trying to persuade him to get in the squad car. I don't think you'd like it if you failed to realize that someone was ODing as you tried to calm them in the midst of a crowd, and then were accused of muder because they died on you.
@@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev no I wouldn't. But the fact remains that it was four law enforcement officers with guns against a man. The crowd formed because they recognized the police were not fulfilling their duties to offer assistance. While I can certainly agree that those situations are very charged, we literally pay officers to respond well in high-stress situations. If the officers couldn't maintain the peace they need to rethink their profession. For me, this isn't a racial issue as I've seen similar scenarios occur with white detainees. This is another instance of gross abuse of an American's civil rights and we should have treated it accordingly
Sacrifice is not about getting rid of something malignant, it's more about paying for something the village wants with something valuable. That's why god in the bible would thoroughly reject any blemished sacrifice. If a sacrifice is blemished then it's not sacrifice, it's getting rid of your useless garbage like people who think they are doing a good deed by donating spoiled food to the homeless that they were going to throw out anyway. My biggest issue is when the ritual sacrifice is with a life that isn't theirs to give. To me that's an abomination. That said, there are people who will cannibalize others or their energy and not care about who it is they are destroying. I don't really see this as sacrifice so much as vampirism. Then there is a scapegoat which also must be perfect, but then the malignancy is transferred to it and it is sent away. This also is not technically the same as a sacrifice.
Yes, and in antiquity there was the figure of the homo sacer or "sacred man", who was a social outcast that could be lawfully killed by anyone but not sacrificed. Giorgio Agamben contests the idea that the genocide of the Jews in WWII was a sacrifice, and likens them to homines sacri.
One time on The Ultimate Fighter, BJ Penn was Coach and his team kept losing, and during a team meeting one of the guys laughed about something that was Funny and BJ Penn flipped out on him! And kicked him off his team saying he was the reason why the team lost , he sacrificed him.
Interesting how whether something is a “sacrifice” depends on intent. If I pay my taxes in hopes that they will be used to better the lives of others, that’s a sacrifice. If I pay them expecting personal benefit, that’s a business transaction. Seems like true sacrifice is rarely felt by modernity, but it’s definitely present things like early romantic relationships.
I think Christianity is the greatest thing because it is incontrovertible evidence that we live in a supernatural universe. And because of God's amazing love.
What are the chances that the ONLY reason humans sacrifice humans (especially babies) is the fallen Watchers and their progeny have instructed their subjects that sacrifice unlocks power they are requesting from "Elohim Caretakers"?
@@lukaswilliams5851 Georges Bataille. He's a sociologist / anthropologist who wanted to reinstate (voluntary) human sacrifice. He's an original to say the least.
"In ultimate epistemic humility, those who do not have a T.O.E cannot dare, proclaim truth statements as absolute and universal if and only if they can not resolve all contradictions within their knowledge base. Therefore we who are ignorant must give glory to this infinity, known to some as God but to us as reality." I find that there exist, groups of people, such as some hardcore atheists; whose F of x is to fight against 'irrationality', that claim universal generalizations of attribution with the total negation of any religious claims within their epistemic knowledge while simultaneously proclaiming the moral high ground. Since within their POV the category of atheism inherently is attributed with valid and sound logic, and whose position is correct within all possible interpretations within their 'proper' framework of ontological and philosophical grounds., and by which the identity of atheism holds intrinsic goodness as the only moral and intellectual choice, and whose propositional claims can never be questioned, such that anyone who is a member of atheism is automatically attributed with such philosophical status. and, in general, those who are religious are the one's who lost their sanity. (on technical grounds any person can lose their sanity given enough suffering.) However, atheism is simply the isomorphic dual alternative of theism in relation to agnosticism. In my opinion, celebrity atheists could not properly interpret their own framework without falling into contradiction. I don't blame them for this since they are only human. But as ostensible aribters of truth, I was bewildered when they made philosophic statements about the status of religion when in a deterministic or Darwinian system I could not see how they could justify philosophy or in the belief that religion was a parasitic evil. I could not see how they could derive good and evil within their framework without running into unresolved contradictions. For example, 'religion is bad because of all the evils it committed. Therefore we are going to stand above everything and determine religion as necessary trash." how could they stand above all if from an evolutionary position religion has many functions both 'good' and 'evil'. how could they derive good or evil? Humans are not the species that has killed the most amount of species if you consider that all organisms who share the Last Universal Common Ancestor is a 'family' so why is our family not considered evil if there are uncounted trillions of lives that perished as a result of predation. (I don't hold consciousness as a predicate for evil or good distinction within their framework.) Personally, I think the conventional atheism, of Hitchens and his friends, failed itself because it seemed like they were out for revenge against those who they perceived as false and untrue. Any true truth-seeker cannot speak of truth without losing their conscience since to speak of truth is to invalidate it because of incomplete knowledge. I am not here to fight anyone.
Even as an atheist and a communist and an overall ex sh1tlib I never for once supported abortion, I had so many fights over this because they just couldn't understand why I was so against and vocal over this..
And I just couldn't understand how they could argue that just because the geographic location of a human is a uterus it's ethical to kill that unwanted baby instead of just giving it for adoption.
After many years, we were about to have a child, because of some genetic condition we thought our child had 25% chance to be born with a serious health condition, we had an exam at the 3rd month, my wife wanted abortion if it showed a problem, and I was against it...
So as I was alone in my car after a fight over this, I said, God if you even exist, make this child to be healthy...
Fast forward my little daughter is healthy, I became a Christian.
And on top of everything recently we discovered that my wife also had a super rare genetic condition that we didn't even test for at the time, our child truly was miraculous against all odds, and didn't even know it
cool story bro. Seriously!
That's beautiful.
I used to accept the libertarian argument of bodily autonomy and only wished they'd be honest and if they could just admit it's cold blooded murder, but now they lost the libertarian argument after pushing covid mandates. The hypocrisy is frustrating when I see them still saying "my body my choice"
I don't accept it anymore because they broke the libertarian deal. They showed they have no principles.
It really comes down to their belief geriatric lives are more important than baby's lives. They have to believe it or else they are just power based without a moral foundation at all and it comes down to who can vote.
Asking when human life begins is answered by asking: Working backwards when does our humanity end?
Answer: moments before conception.
Beautiful. Congrats!!
Through my life I’ve flirted with many different beliefs but one constant is I never supported abortion. It always felt gross to me. I knew it was because it is the murder of the unborn, and it shouldn’t have to be explained any further. Yet I’ve always struggled to explain it without people getting aggressive and thinking I don’t support rights of a woman, AND I’M A WOMAN. Now I completely understand it was intuition and empathy for the child. It is human sacrifice, no matter why it’s done.
Sure is odd how the wealthier amongst people will push 4 them the poor 2 take their own babies life's and but they Want do this 2 their own.
@@chrisskinner6291... sorry?! 🤔
@@chrisskinner6291 oh! Yes! I get it! 😘 Like tattoos, belly button rings, eyebrow too, GMO, fluoride, polyester, etc.. 🔥🏚️😢
@@theresefournier3269 sorry 4 what
@@chrisskinner6291 It's just that at first, i didn't get what you were trying to say. Then, as the next comment explained, i did! Thank you!
Gossip is a sort of sacrifice too maybe. A lot of people bond over it and « reputanionally » sacrifice the person they’re talking about.
like the the bonding of groups online to remove someone off a platform
@@pchee sorta
It's truth in excess.... truth is the King King virtues, however the truth must be balanced with the other virtues...
I think that's why the church fathers equate slander to murder.
Well, that's definitely scapegoating.
It’s unfortunate that our culture is so far removed from the practice of self-sacrifice that people don’t understand its importance to our survival.
It's really not a stretch to say that the ideology of the present regime is diametrically opposed to self sacrifice.
@@regpharvey of course and I defend it. Self sacrifice is a form of human sacrifice. Nobody should feel they've to renounce to anything without need
@@konyvnyelv. How is self sacrifice a form of human sacrifice, when self sacrifice allows one to live another day?
@@טימותילורנס because you sacrifice your current self to your potential self
its not just an act which protects the kin of here now from physical harm
The masses are getting ready to sacrifice Christians once more, Catholic christians to be specific.
In a New Polity podcast they talked about how christianity took this need we have to sacrifice, which God himself used in the Old Testament, and transformed it in the only form of sacrifice that is actually pleasing to God, which is self sacrifice. And we offer it up to God everyday in Holy Mass.
Amen 🙂
Self sacrifice is human sacrifice
Amen 🤗
If I’m ever in a situation where I disagree with a team, I will now say “I will not participate in your teamness”.
Thank you Johnathan. I really appreciate how you are able to minimize criticism of the new atheist type to a minimum while helping the more open minded in thier ranks understand reality a bit better. I really respect your approach in these discussions
Thank you for your channel. After listening, I sat down and wrote this:
If sacrifice is inevitable during the duration of our human experience, wouldn’t it be prudent to examine to what end, to what purpose we are sacrificing?
Take the practice of abortion, which is literally a human sacrifice. To what greater purpose is this practice of sacrifice serving, and to what greater purpose is the refusal of this practice serving? One way or the other, a sacrifice will be made.
In most cases of abortion, not including medical emergencies placing the mother in grave danger, the female is seeking freedom from the burden of responsibility to care for another life. She is placing bets on her life being better off without the burgeoning inside of her, and concludes it’s an obstacle that needs removing. I don’t view lightly the heaviness of this burden, especially if it is brought about by the worst of circumstances.
The unwillingness to abort brings it’s own sacrifice, and definitely a sacrifice of the human sort. The mother, her family, her community and society will sacrifice of themselves to allow for another life and these sacrifices will be many.
I would ask, which one of these sacrifices are working in us a more nobler and admirable end?
If life ever throws us females a curveball like an unintended pregnancy, may we search our hearts and souls for the response that isn’t just about us and not strictly self-serving, but calls from the purest source of goodness. A response that recognizes in truth and clarity, much like the butterfly effect, what seems like a minuscule decision could have large-scale implications well beyond just our human constitution. May such a dilemma beg a response that when we look back on that decision, we don’t feel shame, or haunting regret, but heartwarming relief that the right sacrifice had been made.
It is not a badge of honor that upwards of 500,000 abortions are performed in America yearly. These numbers should stagger us, should propel us with love to find what has caused such brokenness and strive to mend it.
May God help us and may we remember, history has it’s eyes on us.
Wow, that was a very sober, honest and grounded view on this very tenuous issue.
I once held a very cold, cavalier and materialistic view toward abortion. Something that I find to be quite evil in retrospect.
I've matured and rediscovered my connection with the divine but this question I think is best answered by a woman. You're response is one of the best I've come across.
Johnathan dropped the bomb on this one. Last 15 minutes was 💣
9 minutes in and I already like the way you're speaking about the subject. We need more discussions like this.
Of all things, Family Guy encapsulates the principles here well, where Meg is essential the scapegoat for everything wrong with their messed-up family, and keeps them together and functioning
people like to think human sacrifice was barbaric when ancient people did it, because they believe our societies stopped doing/behaving so. what are 98% of abortions, if not the sacrifice of a life to will into existence a more desirable future for those who remain? that was Always the nature of human sacrifice.
Wow! That is a great way to put it. Very intelligent and simple way of seeing it.
What about witch burning or asceticism? It is the sacrificial mindset too.
@@konyvnyelv. Witch burning is sacrificing others. Asceticism is sacrificing yourself.
@@maxsiehier but still, you are often pushed by others to sacrifice yourself. This is proved by the fact that 99% ascetics devote their life to the god of their country/culture
Sacrifice to Molech to gain the blessings of Mammon. That’s the American way.
Great job Jonathan- I think this is super interesting on a structural level and I will be watching again for sure. I still think Girard has more to offer than what you highlighted here. his emphasis on Mimesis and the Affective psychotic state that leads to the original violence and enables justificatory myths and rituals to cover over the truth is super important and helpful to understanding darker patterns of being we can fall into. you say “self sacrifice” but I think it is better stated as sacrifice of desire. Girard Identifies mimetic desire as coming from outside of ourselves like how temptation in the garden came from the snake not inside eves mind or body. Temptation also implies it’s something outside us that gets inside of us to lead us astray. Girard’s focus on mimesis also helps understand why we have to commit to imitating Christ because we can’t help but be mimetic. If we are imitating him we will be closed off to mimetic desire from others. His focus on violence and how myths arise also point to the need to be constantly on guard and cognizant that we innately vulnerable to falling into affective engulfment in which our minds will tell us stories that feel true but are not true. Maybe who you are and how grounded in your faith you are makes that aspect of his theory of ritual violence less relevant then it is to someone who has lived more in the passion of mimetic desire and the consequences of it . The concept of Mimesis and the relationship between affective states and myths helps me understand a lot of my life.
I can vouch that Mythmaking happens on an individual level to construct personal narratives that justify, explain or maintain mimetic desire and the psychosis of passion it provokes ( ;
That does sound super helpful. Do you know anyone else who did a video on this? And if people find out of it - what would be the perquisites for starting to realize and accept one's mistakes?
Also: Great description of narcissism. Maybe you will enjoy Sam Vaknins perspective on this.
There is a ritual to protect the integraty of the whole..Jesus was what is called " Scapegoat" ! The Scapegoat should be explained..
Bro I was one of the first dudes to take psychedelics and discover stuff I could only confirm by finding Girards theories. Three years ago I was championing Girard like he was my daddy, and everyone got super pissed off and called both me and Girard retarded.
@@knowledgeallah You and everyone else have 2 and 1/2 years at most before the Earth goes through 3 massive pole shifts.It will also stop rotating for 3 days..Depending on location many humans will be the next Wolly Mammoths...
This understanding is extremely valuable to me, thank you for all you do Jonathan. Or, it may be more proper to say, thank you for all that you sacrifice to understand and impart this valuable wisdom to us. I pray that, having received it, we (your viewers) may be empowered to discern and offer more meaningful and genuine sacrifices to God.
Eloquent and insightful. This man is worth listening to.
I find this very eye opening and insightful. Sacrifice makes so much more sense on so many levels now; whether it's being done to survive, initiate a group member, to fit it or get rid of an outcast/threat, all while universally finding scapegoats for our issues. You've managed to explain complex levels of sacrifice in a clear, thought-out way ... so thank you 👍
As one who has been positioned as a sacrifice by so many, your dissertation on the subject is thoroughly fascinating. 💯
Very profound. Very enlightening. Your discourses on symbolism are like a sommelier breaking down all the flavour nuances in a fine wine. It takes a pro. Merci Jonathan!
Abortion really is the most heartbreaking problem of our time. Almost all issues that should worry and horrify conservatives today pale in comparison.
abortion is not a problem. it's a symptom
@@UNOwenWasMe A symptom of what? The fall of the West? I would probably agree, but a sympton certainly can be a problem as well.
@@WillEnd96 spending resources to """fix""" the symptom will just waste a ton of resources and not fix the problem
spend those resources on educating people to not make/get pregnant when you don't want to
but i know that won't happen. despite the best efforts of some people, the flood is coming and i'm looking forward to it :)
Agreed 100%
@@UNOwenWasMe what flood? What do you mean
Thinking of actuarial science now. As a society, we are willing to decide how many safeguards are required based on the probability of how many humans will be sacrificed. This is brilliant, Jonathan.
Intro was fire 🔥 👌
The Synthwave Orthodox itro fad is in full swing! Love it but this one's topic is rough.
You, sir, are a very intelligent thinker. Thank you for your considerate conversation.
Great video. You really explored the various forms of sacrifice and how they relate to the modern world. Unless I missed it, I think it is important to understand our Indo-European word for sacrifice. It comes from the Latin for "To Make (facio) Sacred (sacri)." Back in the 70s when I was working on my masters in Anthropology, I did a class presentation on Upper Paleolithic Cave art. Hopefully, I can remember what I gave back then. One of the explanations was that the cave artists understood that when an animal was killed for the group's nourishment that the spiritual order of the natural world was disrupted. Rituals were conducted in the dark recess of the "womb" of the earth to restore the spiritual order which included replacing the animal by painting a representation on the wall of the cave. Getting back "To Make Sacred," this not only restored the spiritual order but also raised, as you noted, the ritual participants directly into the spiritual realm. Of course, today, we still celebrate every week a human sacrifice to make ourselves and the Cosmos sacred. Most Christians (Catholic, Orthodox and some Protestants) believe that on the Altar of the Lord's Supper that we leave Time behind and actually participate directly in the eternal death of Jesus. When we participate in the "Breaking of the Bread," it is in reality the Body of Jesus that is being broken. We are no longer on earth and by taking Communion, are sharing in the Banquet of the Lord that is eternally on-going in Heaven. But participating in the ritual of the Lord's Supper is not enough, we must imitate the paradigmatic model of Jesus by also laying on our own selves on the altar with all of our sins and good actions we do as we try to follow Jesus' example of self-sacrifice. I always thought that Christianity is the "original religion." It has still retained the original sacrificial nature of the ancient religions in all aspects.
Very interesting what you say! Could you elaborate more on Christianity being the original religion?
@@mjvictoriano Basically what I mean is that revealed Christianity incorporates and fulfills the correct teachings and the rituals of the ancient religions which were arrived at by natural reason. Christianity is a religion that its new adherents feel comfortable with because they see the reflection of their previous beliefs and rites but with a sense of a Father overflowing with Love.
@@tomredd9025 for someone who supposedly studied the subject I find it awful strange that you would say this rather than acknowledging the obvious which is that Christian, via Judaism, merely copied most of the elements that were found in the Indo-European tradition (e.g the primordial sacrifice of the Divine Twins) from France to India, most likely by way of the Babylonian captivity, and the New Treatment writers in the 1st and 2nd Centuries AD added in a lot of Greek elements.
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_cosmogony#Myths
- ruclips.net/video/xKPMeIojJVk/видео.html
Far from being the "original religion", Hebraic monotheism is a far downstream lower-resolution reflection of the same.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug You may not know this but Hebrew is a Semitic language (like Arabic) and is definitely not an Indo-European language. Completely different ancient roots and origin. You may also not know that the Babylonians, Assyrians etc. also spoke a Semitic Language called Akkadian or was derived from it. Again, no connection to any Indo-European language. You may also not know that the original language of Mesopotamia before Akkadian was Sumerian. Sumerian is a language isolate. This means that there is absolutely no connection to any other language on earth. It is one of the great mysteries in the study of languages. Tha Basques language of northern Spain and southern France is also a language isolate but is not related to Sumerian. I encourage you to study language origins. It is fascinating and will help you not being snookered by persons drawing tenuous connections that may or may not be there.
@@tomredd9025 I mean no offense, but there is a deep irony that we are talking about language and you clearly were not able to properly read my last comment. I am fully aware of the nature of the Hebrew and Sumerian language is, but I was not talking about linguistics. The connection is not through etymology, but through cultural contact. The Jews picked up the mythological forms and cultural structures from the Babylonians, not because they were speaking their language but because they were living in their lands, in the same way that the Native Americans picked up culture from the European Pioneers without having to speak the same language. It is indisputable, to anyone that is actually studied the subject, of the influence of the Mesopotamian creation myth, which themselves were influenced by the hittite myths of the Indo-European strain, on the stories and books of the Hebrew Bible. I suppose it is my turn to say that I would encourage you to study the subject, since it is quite interesting. Cheers.
This is the best video you've ever made, and you've made many incredible videos.
I was waiting for this essay since he made his 2020 analysis comparing the adulation of George Floyd to the choosing of Barabbas over Jesus Christ. Once you understand the core ideas of human sacrifice, even a little, a lot of things happening these days begin to make sense: essentially we're being asked to take part in and celebrate a series of sacrifices (cancel culture, communist scapegoating, abortion, ritual stigmatizing of the unjabbed, war in Ukraine,...) as part of a giant, worldwide ritual that turn the Christian Sacrifice on its head. It's like a giant death cult; the same death that Christ conquered so that we can all be free of its grip.
I argue that this global, thinly veiled ritual, is how people of the world will be ultimately seduced by the spirit of the Antichrist and how the faithful will be persecuted and possibly wiped off the map. I've yet a lot to learn and investigate on that front. We shall see.
Thanks Jonathan. This is a huge and important topic. I'll start by agreeing with the person below who distinguished between sacrificing something that is one's own and something that isn't. It might also be interesting to distinguish between economic sacrifice and social/existential. My main point, however, has to do with your discussion of George Floyd, because I sense that there are some extremely curious and counterintuitive (from Girard's point of view anyway) things going on. As you know, Girard claimed that the Gospels weakened the scapegoat mechanism by affirming the innocence of the victim. And, for the scapegoat mechanism to work well (as in dissipate the mimetic violence that can lead to the war of all against all), the victim must be seen as culpable. He must, in other words, be seen as a legitimate target for the violence of all against one. Thus, Girard pointed out that an ironic effect of the Gospel would be an increase in violence, until the Gospel work is accomplished. Now as you point out, the function of the scapegoat mechanism is to bind those killing the victim. This did not happen in G. F.'s case. Indeed, it did bind certain segments of society, but produced profound divisions as well. It appears to have galvanized much of the black community, but divided "white" society as a whole. And since BLM identified GF as a victim of white systemic racism, it should have had precisely the opposite effect (if BLM and RG are right). Moreover, GF's death as scapegoat should have led to a lessening of societal violence, but instead led to a drastic increase. It was interesting, too, that when Candace Owens called GF's character into question, she was mobbed by those who wanted to treat him as an innocent victim. Maybe, then, we should see the GF phenomenon as an example of a failed scapegoat (or failing scapegoat) mechanism, where this kind of death leads to increased violence, increased division. Anyway, I would be interested to hear you speak more of this. My sense is that we are moving away from the violence of all against all, and towards the violence of tribe against tribe. This speaks, as you point out, to a break down in the higher order being. Perhaps there is no longer a merely human sacrifice that can save our society at this point.
I wouldn't say GF was a human sacrifice, more like an accidental death which does not give it the same gravitas. A sacrifice needs to be intentional, it must be something that the person or group deem valuable. So no GF was not a sacrifice, nor a scapegoat he was an artificially created icon whose death was used by some as an excuse for venting bottled up frustration and dissatisfaction, whilst others used it as a means to justify sacrificing free speech.
Jeremiah 20:14 **CURSED** be the day in which I was BORN! Let the day **NOT** be BLESSED in which my **MOTHER GAVE BIRTH** to me!
Jeremiah 20:15 **CURSED** be the man (doctor) who brought THE [GOOD] NEWS to MY FATHER, “A CHILD, A SON, HAS BEEN BORN to you!” filling him with GREAT JOY. -(WOW!)
Jeremiah 20:17 if (the doctor) had **KILLED ME** while I was **IN THE WOMB**. Then **MY MOTHER** would have been my **GRAVE,** and her WOMB an **EVERLASTING PREGNANCY** (commentary says his mothers womb likened to a CASKET!)
BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE OT AS SOME SORT OF CHRISTIAN TRUTH - WE DO NOT FOLLOW IT FOR A REASON, AND DO NOT PRAY TO THEM AS CANONIZED SAINTS IN HEAVEN:
Jeremiah 4:10 “You are **ADONAI YAHWEH,** So WHY have you **DECEIVED** everyone, ESPECIALLY the people of Jerusalem?
Jeremiah 20:7 You **DECEIVED** me, O YAHWEH, and I was **DECEIVED.**
Ezekiel 14:9 If a PROPHET speaks a **DECEIVING** word, **I YAHWEH** am **THE ONE WHO DECEIVED** that prophet. I will.. **DESTROY HIM** from the midst of my people Israel.
Commenting mid way =). From a moral perspective I think there are two types of sacrifice:
1. Something that is "yours"
2. Something that is not yours
First one feels holy and proper, especially if sacrifice is "up" in Jonathans terminology. I think most people share this insight intuitively.
Besides this, you can sacrifice what is yours, or you can demand others to sacrifice what is theirs. In the covid crisis, taking the vaccine is a "sacrifice" or was viewed as such. Then people demanded that others make a sacrifice which in my opinion distorted and perverted the concept of sacrifice.
Hi David,
Thanks for commenting. You've drawn the distinction between sacrificing something that is "yours" versus "not yours." Have you considered this pattern within one person's life: present moment (yours) versus future moment (not yours)?
Maybe one level up from this would be: present life (yours) versus future afterlife (not yours).
@@andrewpirr no I hadn't, but it makes sense, thanks!
@@andrewpirr Thats deep.
@@andrewpirr top comment.
You could also see it as the anti-vaxers as failing to give their sacrifice (their freedom) to the higher ideal (health and safety of the community).
This may be the single most profound, deeply profound, analysis of the human condition - or shall I say of the gravity of our sin condition - that I've had the privilege of listening to. The Christ Jesus remedy and it's model for all of us today finds greater illumination in pondering the truth exposed in this extremely provocative and disturbing discussion. Thank you Jonathan. It will take me several listenings to fully savour and digest this solid food.
Loved this one Jonathan! Sacrifice is a huge part of life and the ignorance of it is crazy these times! Keep up the great work!
First video I’ve come across of yours. First time ever looking into the purpose of human sacrifices. Thank you for this very pertinent information. I look forward to browsing your channel!
It seems to me that cancel culture could be understood as an example of a ritualized practice of human sacrifice. Anyone else think so?
It is a more verbal and subtle way of scapegoating/smiting the margin than outright murder, yeah.
@@Felipe-kv8qd right, but I think it’s still the ritualized aspect of murder. When a person’s ability to speak on social media is removed or someone gets them fired from their job, etc., these can be seen as ways of committing or at least attempting murder without actually murdering the person. The same effect is had but in lower ways without the higher cost. Would you agree?
Within the framework Jonathan is presenting here, I’d say absolutely. It’s the desire to cast out the “problematic viewpoint(s)” in order for the group to feel safe from that view. The viewpoints are attached to certain people/outgroups and rather than outright killing them, they are instead ostracized from some platform or other privilege.
@@benmorgan6419 yup. Less bloody. But in some ways just as messy
@@wesley3300 I think it will switch to bloodshed in the next few years. Cancel culture is just the warm up. It's drawing lines in the sand to see if they have enough power to move forward with what they want to do.
Infanticed was an almost universal pratice but, most of that, is caused only very secular reason (as a preference by boy than girls). In the roman empire there was much more adults males than female because of that. See these data in Voitheia Ruc channel.
Great!
Thank you so much Jonathan for helping me understand all this again. You explained this all in a very thoroughly intelligible way, one of the best explorations of a concept I've seen you take on. The bits about criminal gang initiation bindings and how the scandal affords this was especially insightful.
I absolutely love the truth of the way you describes how this works, the deeply organic and spatial way of seeing it and reality that I think is one of the most real and true and beautiful ways of understanding reality. I can sacrifice myself much more readily and even joyously when I understand it as something I and everyone and everything already does constantly in order to exist at higher levels of unity (and on a cosmic gradient e.g. a body, a family, a clan, a city, a nation, the human race, the earth, the galaxy, the cosmos, all the emanating primordial causes / forms / patterns shaping the former, God), e.g. through time and loving attention for one, and most importantly by understanding it not as a negation for its own sake or for God as an abstract moral judge but for the sake of the highest / most encompassing reality, its unity and sustainability and expansion, which is the cosmos + that which gives it essence and existence both, i.e. God. This is (Christian) Panentheism at its best, most intelligible, and most affording of kenotic love (and in Whitehead's phrase, world loyalty, understood in the deepest and most encompassing sense).
Quick (political) comment on the George Floyd reference.
Nancy Pelosi literally said in some memorial service, "Thank you, George Floyd, for sacrificing yourself/your life for justice.".
I'm not sure we've entirely seen the totality of whatever "justice" she's referencing here, but I'm not sure I want to.
It seems that there is also some kind of sacrifice of policemen related to these events. And there seem to be some kind of inversion and perversion in the structure of this sacrifice.
Wow. This is sad. Brings shivers down my spine. And to have the gall to word it that way during the ceremony. That's some dark stuff man. Sheesh! Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison.
It’s the Satanic notion of justice.
and it wasn't exactly voluntary self-sacrifice either (a la MLK)
@@joshualovelace3375 Yes. MLK's speech before he died, "I have seen the promised land. I may not get there with you..." Gives me chills.
Call myself an agnostic. But I can also admit that there’s a lot of wisdom in this video. I think Jonathan has a very clear sober interpretation of human behavior.
I've been constantly thinking about this for the past two weeks especially because I myself am beginning to make videos on the development of early religions throughout the Neolithic and ancient periods of human history.
My tiny contribution: It wasn't just a "member of the Sanhedrin" who suggested that it would be "better for one man to die" than for the nation to perish. It was Caiaphas "who was high priest that year" (John 11:49f). Not a coincidence, though unwitting on his part.
It is said that since he was the high priest that year, he had the gift of prophecy. It is one of the many proofs that the Christian priesthood is the continuity of the priesthood of the Old Testament.
@@gabrielparent In so saying, he thereby MADE the sacrifice happen; it was this decision that formally initiated Jesus' death. (And I hasten to add that MY sins sent him to the cross, and the Romans actually crucified him, lest I be accused of antisemitism or something here.)
The wise shepherd chooses his most perfect lamb as a sacrifice to offer up to God. And even a perfect lamb is lifted still higher upon his being sacrificed. Christ embodied both the perfect being and utter self-sacrifice.
Scapegoating is the inversion of this: a flawed man is sacrificed against his will.
Unwittingly?!?!
Jesus said….Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. 5And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. 6He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the HEIR. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be OURS.
Pilate said they were jealous of him.
Anti-Semitism, brotherly hate, is what led to the Civil War that destroyed the temple. Even the disciples were backbiting each other. Jews were not a unified whole at this time. There is a much more brotherly love, live and let live mentality amongst Jews today.
Backbiting, self-righteousness, My Way Or The Highway mentalities have affected and destroyed every tribe FROM WITHIN on this planet at some point. This is just the nature of fallen man, and it’s not anti Semitic to acknowledge it.
@@knowyourlove5613 He was of course blameworthy, but Caiaphus did not know that Jesus was the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world, did not know that as High Priest he was in effect offering him in sacrifice. (Jesus says, Father, forgive them; they don't know what they are doing.)
I watched a portion live and then came back to watch the whole thing to take it all in.
Jonathan made some interesting points that never occurred to me like the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I never considered those as acts of human sacrifice, but it seems rather plain to me now.
Much like many of your videos before, I expect to see this pattern throughout my life. Thank you for opening my eyes to this, but helping me see that self-sacrifice is the right pattern to participate in.
Dan Carlin has a huge podcast series on the Pacific War called "Supernova in the East". He makes the analogy of the War as runaway industrial killing machine. The Atom Bomb was a way to throw something into the machine to cause it to stop. Definitely a sacrifice, even Truman and his generals felt that way too I think. Otherwise we would have had to take Japan & Tokyo one inch at a time, like the Soviets did Berlin. The Bombs saved countless more American and Japanese lives than who perished.
@@Okie8T9 Do look into where the Japanese Christians were centred to see one way in which the bomb served the interests of the Americans and the Japanese alike.
I took LSD years ago and learned all of this stuff, it scared the shit out of me.
I tried to convert to Orthodox but couldnt stay off the Acid and Shrooms.
This is the content ive been waiting for.
Human sacrifice 101.
Look into CS Lewis and George MacDonald.
As always, you made so much sense, Jonathan. Thank you for sharing your understanding with us!
Thank you Jonathan! I am so very impressed by your courage to call abortion for what it is. I feel sorry for all the women who hare duped into this. But I have not time for the selfishness of the rest of society that has no better solution to offer to these women than sacrificing their babies.
Brilliant as usual. Thank you Jonathan
Love Jonathan's self awareness in this video.
"Be careful what you worship. For a man will worship something." (A saying of, as I understand it, uncertain origin, often attributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
The Synth wave intro is epic.
That intro is so good. They seem to be better every time (not that the original wasn't good of course). It's a great way to start the video.
Anyone remember those girls who killed or tried to kill someone in order to summon Slenderman? We're still trying to sacrifice people to get what we want. Wild how so many miss that, even though I understand why they do
I love to see you scholarly expanding on topics in length. For me those talks are the most beneficial.
Also: Love the new intro.
May I add: the intro music is ever more spot-on.
Love the video! Thank you a lot for it, Mr. Pageau!
Man that new intro music is amazing
I am Mexican, you should talk about MEXICAS, OLMECAS & TOLTECAS human sacrifices & mutilations.
I am thinking that's what this was about. Or at least touched on.
How much is known about Olmeca sacrifices?
no creo que el canadience sepa mucho sobre eso, igual es interesante que rituales parecidos a los de yucatan y esos lares son muy parecidos a rituales encontrados en todo el mundo, especialmente en Mesopotamia, pareciera que ese tipo de sacrificios fueron parte de todas las civilizaciones.
Una vez escuche que los ingleses no solían dar nombre a los niños de menos de 4 años, por que se morían tanto que no valía la pena. Quizás lo que pasaba en la antigüedad es que los niños no se consideraban personas todavía y por eso no tenían tanto problema en sacrificarlos, teniendo en cuenta que tenían una alta tasa de mortalidad, pero eso es solo especulación mía.
Yep. All that stuff is crazy and super dark and twisted. It makes me sort of grateful that it's changed from that. It's not perfect, and it wasn't a clean transition, but at least you don't have to worry about being slaughtered for "tha gods."
@@Sahl-Amander The whole thesis of the video is that it's not "changed from that" at all. Jesus Christ offered the solution to this problem but the world rejected Him.
People like you feel as though this world has "transitioned" from "tha gods" because their own religious intuition has been blunted (by design).
As a consequence, whenever "tha gods" come to slaughter them, they don't even realize what's happening.
And if you remember, Nancy Pelosi even said on TV, "Thank you George Floyd for *sacrificing yourself* for us."
They are less dumb than they look and the fact that most people don't realize it (or do so for the wrong reasons) is the terrifying part.
I was just researching this topic after your talk with Paul, since it reminded me of something I’d read before and I had started to see the connections between them - I can’t remember the exact name of the episode though, but nevertheless this talk came at the perfect time!! Thank you so much :)
I hope you find the episode!
@@LD-2401 I was talking about “civilization and control” :).
@@annadevries5785 cool
Killer intro, man!
WOW WOW WOW; most profound talk, tnx a lot
Digging the synth intro music 🎶
You should talk to Rollo Tommasi who has made a similar case in his book: The Rational Male: Religion And in his podcasts where he decries abortion as a modern feminist womans foolish and evil attempt to kill in order to continue partying and attempt to find the best man they can. Abortion is hypergamy.
@@stephenpaccone8120 I ment no disrespect, I merely want my most interesting online influencers to colide so I can see what manafests. I'm a frequent customer and former patron of Jonathan. I know I'm not his boss. Perhaps one day if i don't get my wish I'll resubscribe as his patron and ask on their about it.
I really enjoyed this episode. Thank you! And God bless you!
Extra splendide. Sujet si bien abordé, développé et conclu.
I really like the intro in this one!
These different versions of the Symbolic World theme are really cool!!! This one slaps :)
We are so evil, God is truly merciful
Really well articulated, enjoyed that thanks Jonathan
Great discourse as of 35:04… i am hoping this goes into depth on the significance of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ which turns all human ideas of it “on its own head.”
Ha! What a sacrificial saying. Never thought about it like that til now
First time hearing that version of the intro. It is very cool.
Thank you Jonathan for your participation.
Sacrifice unto ‘a purpose’ is the key insight. That purpose can be mundane, or sacred.
Of topic, wow! The intro music went cyberpunk, love it!
I really love the new intro!!!
Great explanation. You've once again, put intelligent words and examples to hard to swallow topics. However, If Aunt betty brings her spaghetti O casserole to thanksgiving dinner.......one more time!!!!!, I'm nominating her for the next volcano drop!
Great video. Great value. Thanks Jonathan.
Man Jonathan you are always on freaking point!!
Really appreciate this, Jonathan. Thank you!
That new intro is really good.
Very serious topic but dang that intro is flippin great
the light of your smile makes this dark subject bearable
Every action entails sacrifice. Its how reality functions.
The question isn’t whether or not we sacrifice humans, its about what aspect of sacrifice has the highest value.
Christ showed us that the highest form of sacrifice is self-sacrifice. Its an inversion of the ancient worldview. So rather than offer others up to God we offer ourselves to others as an embodiment of Gods love.
Sacrifice is not an option, its all about the hierarchy.
It would have been easy to turn someone’s critique of you into unnecessary drama. I appreciate your continued focus towards truth and wisdom.
The intro is amazing!!!
This video is instrumental. I've shared it with those that seem open. Even if they only give it 15 minutes I know it's an eye opener. They will find it again
53:22 "The modern geopolitical world is BASED..." - Johnathan Pageau 2022
Intro Music sounds like the theme song from "Escape From New York", with Kurt Russell, perhaps the greatest film ever made.
Loved the new intro!
Hey Jonathan, content is great, S Tier! Not a fan of the new synthwave opening. Does not detract from the video, I just always appreciated your opening. Keep doing what your doing.
Shut up
Great video.
One quibble: George Floyd OD'd. He had enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse. He was having difficulty breathing before he got on the ground. The coroner found no damage to his trachea and said that if this body had been brought to him with no context, he would have said definitely OD. Derek Chauvin weighed about 100 lbs less than George Floyd, and a different camera angle showed his knee not on Floyd 's neck but on his shoulder. Derek Chauvin was the actual scapegoat in that situation. He was one whose blood the mobs were screaming for.
I think the issue is that as a police officer, it was Chavin's duty to assist someone who was in the midst of a medical emergency. He was no longer a threat with 4 officers present. Chauvin failed to do his duty as a first responder and at best could be charged with failure to assist and at worst negligent homicide. If Floyd wasn't detained, he probably would have gotten help in time. The detainment hastened his death. I don't think he murdered him but he certainly didn't help.
@@dahliaherrod4301 I have certainly heard those arguments.
I've also heard that, when someone is high, they can go from passed out to rearing up with supercharged strength in a second. It's a very unpredictable, volatile situation.
Additionally, Chauvin was dealing with a crowd gathered around yelling, another volatile situation that also made it hard to hear. He and his fellow officers had been talking with Flloyd for about 20 minutes at that point, trying to persuade him to get in the squad car.
I don't think you'd like it if you failed to realize that someone was ODing as you tried to calm them in the midst of a crowd, and then were accused of muder because they died on you.
@@NeanderthalWoman-ou8ev no I wouldn't. But the fact remains that it was four law enforcement officers with guns against a man. The crowd formed because they recognized the police were not fulfilling their duties to offer assistance. While I can certainly agree that those situations are very charged, we literally pay officers to respond well in high-stress situations. If the officers couldn't maintain the peace they need to rethink their profession.
For me, this isn't a racial issue as I've seen similar scenarios occur with white detainees. This is another instance of gross abuse of an American's civil rights and we should have treated it accordingly
Sacrifice is not about getting rid of something malignant, it's more about paying for something the village wants with something valuable. That's why god in the bible would thoroughly reject any blemished sacrifice. If a sacrifice is blemished then it's not sacrifice, it's getting rid of your useless garbage like people who think they are doing a good deed by donating spoiled food to the homeless that they were going to throw out anyway. My biggest issue is when the ritual sacrifice is with a life that isn't theirs to give. To me that's an abomination. That said, there are people who will cannibalize others or their energy and not care about who it is they are destroying. I don't really see this as sacrifice so much as vampirism. Then there is a scapegoat which also must be perfect, but then the malignancy is transferred to it and it is sent away. This also is not technically the same as a sacrifice.
Yes, and in antiquity there was the figure of the homo sacer or "sacred man", who was a social outcast that could be lawfully killed by anyone but not sacrificed. Giorgio Agamben contests the idea that the genocide of the Jews in WWII was a sacrifice, and likens them to homines sacri.
One time on The Ultimate Fighter, BJ Penn was Coach and his team kept losing, and during a team meeting one of the guys laughed about something that was Funny and BJ Penn flipped out on him! And kicked him off his team saying he was the reason why the team lost , he sacrificed him.
Love the new intro! Kinda Dr Who like..
Interesting how whether something is a “sacrifice” depends on intent. If I pay my taxes in hopes that they will be used to better the lives of others, that’s a sacrifice. If I pay them expecting personal benefit, that’s a business transaction. Seems like true sacrifice is rarely felt by modernity, but it’s definitely present things like early romantic relationships.
the new music is wild!
I think Christianity is the greatest thing because it is incontrovertible evidence that we live in a supernatural universe. And because of God's amazing love.
Great presentation. Timely
good stuff Jonathan. keep it up!
Incredible video Jonathan
Synthwave intro slaps, dude.
Also, huge props for dropping these truth nukes.
What are the chances that the ONLY reason humans sacrifice humans (especially babies) is the fallen Watchers and their progeny have instructed their subjects that sacrifice unlocks power they are requesting from "Elohim Caretakers"?
here's hoping that Jonathon will touch on Bataille for once..
What is bataille
He must
@@lukaswilliams5851 Georges Bataille. He's a sociologist / anthropologist who wanted to reinstate (voluntary) human sacrifice. He's an original to say the least.
@@Laurefin ohk tha nks
"In ultimate epistemic humility, those who do not have a T.O.E cannot dare, proclaim truth statements as absolute and universal if and only if they can not resolve all contradictions within their knowledge base. Therefore we who are ignorant must give glory to this infinity, known to some as God but to us as reality."
I find that there exist, groups of people, such as some hardcore atheists; whose F of x is to fight against 'irrationality', that claim universal generalizations of attribution with the total negation of any religious claims within their epistemic knowledge while simultaneously proclaiming the moral high ground. Since within their POV the category of atheism inherently is attributed with valid and sound logic, and whose position is correct within all possible interpretations within their 'proper' framework of ontological and philosophical grounds., and by which the identity of atheism holds intrinsic goodness as the only moral and intellectual choice, and whose propositional claims can never be questioned, such that anyone who is a member of atheism is automatically attributed with such philosophical status. and, in general, those who are religious are the one's who lost their sanity. (on technical grounds any person can lose their sanity given enough suffering.) However, atheism is simply the isomorphic dual alternative of theism in relation to agnosticism. In my opinion, celebrity atheists could not properly interpret their own framework without falling into contradiction. I don't blame them for this since they are only human. But as ostensible aribters of truth, I was bewildered when they made philosophic statements about the status of religion when in a deterministic or Darwinian system I could not see how they could justify philosophy or in the belief that religion was a parasitic evil. I could not see how they could derive good and evil within their framework without running into unresolved contradictions. For example, 'religion is bad because of all the evils it committed. Therefore we are going to stand above everything and determine religion as necessary trash." how could they stand above all if from an evolutionary position religion has many functions both 'good' and 'evil'. how could they derive good or evil? Humans are not the species that has killed the most amount of species if you consider that all organisms who share the Last Universal Common Ancestor is a 'family' so why is our family not considered evil if there are uncounted trillions of lives that perished as a result of predation. (I don't hold consciousness as a predicate for evil or good distinction within their framework.) Personally, I think the conventional atheism, of Hitchens and his friends, failed itself because it seemed like they were out for revenge against those who they perceived as false and untrue. Any true truth-seeker cannot speak of truth without losing their conscience since to speak of truth is to invalidate it because of incomplete knowledge. I am not here to fight anyone.
Epic new intro JP 🤙
Cette conférence est incroyable !!!