The Perfect Mode of Being | Jonathan Pageau | EP 156
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- This episode was recorded on February 14th, 2021.
Jonathan Pageau and I delve into the concepts of conscience, narrating objective reality, the perfect mode of being, the responsibility to move things towards the divine, the inevitability of religion, the significance of the virgin birth, and the idea of Heaven.
Jonathan Pageau is a symbolic thinker, RUclipsr, and class carver of orthodox icons. Jordan and Jonathan have an ongoing dialogue surrounding Judeo-Christian narrative, reality, and symbolism among many other topics.
Find more @JonathanPageau on RUclips and on his website www.pageaucarvi...
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“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.”
*―C. S. Lewis*
It’s not about how you start the race it’s how you finish🤝
I think changing your perception of the beginning is an important part of changing the ending...
Isn't this the exact same meaning as the old Chinese proverb: “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.”
@@axel_r_ Chinese are atheist communists
@@axel_r_ so sorry i dint read or follow chinese proverbs Only the Words Proverbs 1:1-end
“The narrative and the objective can actually touch” - Jordan Peterson
“The word became flesh” - Apostle John
Hmmm. Wow. Amazing. That's it. Spot on. Praying Jordan will come to understand what he's struggling with so much.
What does this even mean? And is this what the biblical authors actually meant?
@@emmashalliker6862 As far as I understand the new testament, yes. The eternal truth became a man, has been tempted like a man, then he offered himself as a perfect sacrifice for sin. Sin has never been forgiven through other sacrifices. Hebrews 10:4
Spot on!!
I think if Jordan could see the basic complementarity of free, creative Mind and deterministic, created matter -- making matter a mediation of narrative, --he would come even closer to the Catholic tradition.
*C.S. Lewis* - "Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself."
Which book is that in?
@@julieelizabeth4856 'Mere Chirstianity' by C.S. Lewis - a great book
@@celebrantsamgoodchild9314 Thanks!
Love that quote!
great quote
I’m one of those people who has “moved worlds” as a result of listening to JP. I used to be a left-leaning moral-relativist with utopian fantasies (and disdain for religion). Now I’m a right-leaning Christian, and I’m more stable and humbled than I’ve ever been.
The character he has been for me is like this...wholly singular amalgamation...of RUclips professor/magical helper/father voice. Over the last couple years, without knowing me, he has reprimanded, encouraged, and inspired me.
I say bedtime prayers now like a little kid, and I include JP. “Dear God, thank you for Jordan Peterson. Thank you, thank you, thank you.”
Beautiful comment.
Awesome!
This just touched me. Your prayer is beautiful
God bless you in your path. We all pray for him. His health and his faith. For his whole family. We pray for all those lost in the darkness of the left and hope they find their way.
That is so sweet to hear.
These two gentlemen brought me back to Christianity, after some 15 years of atheism and nihilism. I've attended church (voluntarily) for the first time Ever, recently. I hope Jordan Peterson continues to get better.
Sorry we lost another rational person to mythology
@@tradingwithwill7214 I am agnostic, but for me, Chistanity makes a lot more sense than Atheism.
Great to hear. Peace and love to you, brother.
Welcome back brother. Heaven rejoiced over this and so do I.
@@mr.jodaniels4156 Making "sense" is irrelevant in what is true, provable, and factual.
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” - Jesus
AMEN!!!
Amen 😊
Amen and hallelujah!
AMEN! "Viva christo rey"⚜⚘
Yoke - words.
And look, in repeating the phrase, you got 5 happy "amen" (s) 🙂
Interesting it's not "confess your sins"
You guys aren't Catholic
"I am afraid of what might happen if I do believe"
Proverbs 9:10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”
With all your heart it can't hurt take care
Yes, that is so true ❤️
Lose fear and just believe.
Amen!
@@LifewiththeBennettss
Ego death (a requirement for repentance and true belief in Jesus) is a VERY scary thing.
This is the podcast episode that brought me to Jesus. Such a powerful conversation.
Amazing! John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
That's great
God bless you
Me too ..
Wow! Same here!!! So cool to find someone else that responded the same way to this video. Especially when he tears up talking about the objective world and the narrative world coming together in Christ.
This video sparked a spiritual awakening in me that I have never felt before. It brought me to God and to Christ. I'm 51 years old and have never identified as a Christian. I started reading the Bible this weekend- first time ever as an adult. I can't express my gratitude for these two men. (Note on my avatar- chose this years ago but never understood why. Now I realize the Holy Spirit has been guiding me and has been with me since the beginning)
That is awesome!! May the Lord bless you in your walk amen!
Thank you for that! That's really cool!
Keep it up
Beutiful
Welcome to the Communion of Saints, White Dove.
It’s a pretty incredible sight to behold God literally drawing someone in. You can tell Jordan doesn’t know what to make of it, and the only explanation is God bringing him into the fold, whether he likes it or not.
Amen.We are watching this in real time.
WE LOVE YOU JORDAN ❤
All i can do is watch in awe, and shout for joy! Like Paul with all his knowledge was completely turned around with a wisdom fr the King of Kings, in a different journey altogether.
Jeremiah 33:3
Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
Yes!!! Those who are Yahweh's children really can see this struggle.
Humble yourself and give glory to god.
Someone pointed this out:
“The objective world and the narrative world touch” - JP
“The Word became flesh” -John 1:14
Thats wonderful insight!
Beautiful
Very astute observation!
Well spotted 🙏🏻✝️❤️
AMEN! TRUTH! i hope he realizes it sooner than later, before its too late!
My family and I were baptized into the Orthodox Church yesterday, and my journey toward Orthodoxy all started with this video. Thank you, gentlemen.
ΙΧΝ☦️
Incredible!
Mine same! ☦️
Something similar happened to me over the course of 4 years since his Bible lectures! Glad to have returned to Christ and his church, and for Dr. Peterson to have helped my journey back : D
how did all of your family get baptized at the same time when it's each an individual journey? Christ first, then symbolistic ritual. Baptism doesn't save.
Dr Peterson spearheads the spiritual revolution at 5% health.
This.
Nailed it!
I loled. That was funny 😊
Imagine what could happen if he is able to return to 100%
It's like in an RPG when your HP drops below a certain level, the stronger your attacks become
When he talked about Christ, his sudden tears and trumbling voice already means a lot. More than a lot of words________________
Thanks you for honesty and sincerity towards life. Your attitude inspires so much.
There is power in the blood of Jesus. The suffering...we can suffer together!
@@Midnightspecia1 power in the blood.. life in Jesus.. and such a grace in his suffering.. Amen and Amen to that...
@@Midnightspecia1 Jesus did the suffering already it's up to us to thrive together
"Life is suffering. That's what the Christians have always known."
Peterson's words echoed in my brain 3 yrs ago when my oldest son took his life. Crushing weight, unimaginable pain. I didn't know how I could ever find joy in life again. I don't know that my burden was made light in Christ...but He never left me, and He understood my pain, having descended below all things. Christ's victory over death will be my victory over pain, when I hold my son in my arms again.
Oh God bless you🙏💒❤
Praying for you now. May you feel the presence of Christ as you walk through this dark valley. Thankful for the hope that you have a reunion with your son one day.
I'm very sorry I pray God will comfort you.
Praying for you in Jesus name, Rosie. Only Jesus knows and understands, only him. "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall inherit eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:40
Im so sorry for your loss.
Two years ago i was able to save my son when he tried to take his life, he was in ICU for 3 days, what hurt me was how angry he got that i saved him. Now i am continually scared that i wont be there if he tries again.
My family is praying for you, Jordan. This is a bit personal, but believe it or not, I was a suicidal nihilist who held onto absolutely no hope for life before I stumbled across your videos by mere chance, thank God. I've experienced much trauma, particularly as a teen. After cutting off all of my friends and most of my family, I had planned to kill myself, so much so that it became all I could think about. Depression & resentment was unbearable to the point where i even stopped eating. Went down to nearly 100 pounds (i'm about 6 ft tall). No therapist or doctor could relate or help whatsoever & I was too furious & confused to listen to my parents, who were the only supportive people left in my life. My pessimistic outlook on humanity absolutely pulverized me into microscopic dust, but hearing your lectures renewed my faith in Christ and in turn, gave me my life back. This is the first time i've even felt fragments of joy since I was a child and it slowly grows each day as my commitment to Christ grows stronger. God is using you to do miraculous things, as painful & confusing as that may be. I just want you to know that although it occurs to me you are aware that you've made a positive impact on many men's lives, I believe the magnitude & even further potential that you have touched other's lives far exceeds what you realize...and I think as long as you keep seeking truth in its entirety & absolution with a humble spirit, this will continue to manifest into thousands of seeds sprouting into abundant fruit over what I would have once deemed blighted grounds. For the help you've given me alone, I am forever grateful. In times when you feel alone, please remember that you have an army of people supporting & praying for you every step of the way. Much love, brother & may peace forever be with you.
I'm so glad his words helped you! And let's pray that your comment reaches Jordan and nudges him closer to Jesus. Thanks...
In the same way you encourage and commend Jordan with regards to the people he must have helped that he will never even know about, may I in turn thank you for your testimony.
That you shared it is not only brave, but extremely important, and also valuable beyond your knowing.
“The Lord bless you and keep you;
the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
The multi-layered meaning in the original Hebrew of this passage (God’s own words of prayer to us/for us) are life changing and profound.
You are deeply loved.
@@whitestone4805 this comment has me so emotional. Bless you so much for acknowledging this powerful testimony and for the blessing. You're precious! GOD bless you and perfect what concerns you
Bless you for your comment and testimony. Be blessed and I pray that the LORD keeps you faithful all the days of your life
@@rtendotapiwa306
Thank you, that’s a such kind comment to receive. 🙏.
This life is both a classroom to learn in and gift to be used to bless others.
Jordan, you once had a dream that you were in the Colosseum fighting the devil. Once victorious, you stood before God and asked him “what was that all about?”. He said He put you there because He knew you would win. You’re living that dream now, and you will win.
Beautiful. I didn't know that story about Peterson. :) Is there a video for it?
More importantly, now is the time to ask Him "what is this about? with the heart of a child who trusts his daddy and expects his daddy will answer him.
Both of you are so brilliant and wonderful I can't understand how you are floundering in the symbolism up to your eyeballs, which is a beautiful thing, but you don't see the pool of His love beckoning you receive His overwhelming redemption. Life changing overwhelming loving healing. A personal relationship with Him is the pearl of great price. Jesus paid the price for us because in spite of our potential to live from a higher spiritual level, very few can do what he taught us, even after all He did for us. I would suggest that you tell Him right now that you want to know if he is real. Tell him that you are going to seek him and you want to give Him your heart. Then ask Him your biggest question right now. Share with him your heart-felt thoughts. Let me know how many miles you have to walk with him before you couldn't live without him as your best friend. Read some Psalms if you don't remember why David was always getting by himself to know God.
May God bless you 🙏. You are already healed in the name of Yeshua. The best is yet to come.
@@lisaswaboda3127
I believe it’s in one of his biblical lectures.
Jordan has said he’s not sure what to make of it.
As an outsider looking in, I believe he’s fighting that epic battle now, with the world as witness (represented by the Colosseum).
I feel Jordan does not want to accept his responsibility (burden), that he is the Truth and Light (Good), our Champion.
The Devil (Evil) is on the move in our world, arguably, like never before in the history of mankind.
I believe the pain he is suffering is caused by the burden of such a responsibility, and maybe, his unwillingness to accept it.
He is so close to touching the Truth, and like Christ, uniting the material and spiritual worlds...
I pray he falls to his knees and accepts God’s Will.
@@lisaswaboda3127 it’s in his biblical series someehere. Can’t remember where
That's beautiful.
That was such a refreshingly honest, bullshit-free, conversation. I'm moved to comment, but at a loss for words. Thank you, gentlemen, for sharing this. You've also raised the standards for what's possible with heavy conversations like this. Slava Isusu Christu!
Slava Na Viki
What religion are you?
@@TheGuiltsOfUs and where’s the evidence for this god?
@@unkownoflife5959 The Red Pill.
@ominousimpression brother/sister I think what Jonathan is getting at and Bhakti is quite similar. one unfied goal
When I watched this conversation between Mr Pageau and yourself, I was deeply moved, as I am certain thousands of others have been as well. The human heart, if sincere, can immediately discern sincerity of another soul. Hence, albeit not highly educated, I was so moved by your trust, yes, precisely like Mr Pageau had said - it all comes back to Trust. You trust your listeners so much that you were willing to put yourself out there. You shared your brokenness, your confusions, your sufferings. You, the Giant Dr Peterson, crying on screen makes my crying feel valid and not silly. Critics will be violent in their wickedness, Dr Peterson, but it has always been like that. Saints have never been patted on their heads.
Johnathan looks at Jordan With such brotherly love and affection. It amazes me this can happen over the internet.
Sharp sight, Rachel. Blessings.
Actually it happens over the Logos:
Acts 17. 28 :^)
The theme of our year for sure
Absolutely. It is 4 am and I am up taking notes. So blessed to have the penetrating questions and the buoyant answers of JP and JP. It is home.
The Christian rule is to live thy neighbor and thy God as we love ourselves. I fail to love myself sometimes because of my sins and bad habits. I hurt myself when I think about it but God let the hurt happen so I can understand the pain that comes with sin. It’s truly a burden on humanity which is why we need Christ. He loved us and died for us to be free of that burden
Jordan, He is knocking at the door, my friend. Prayers for you and yours.
Christ is pursuing him, like He pursued C.S. Lewis.
@@orthodoxnet9677 I can see it!!! I can actually see it happening!! How wonderfull!
Now I can’t get that Little Richard song out of my head 😂
@@orthodoxnet9677 If JP takes the plunge, look out. Willing to bet there’s a lot of people on the fence who respect JP tremendously and know how long he’s struggled with and thoughtfully/meticulously considered all these questions. He’s the canary in the Heavenly coal mine...aka one of the Saints God calls up during times of great trial and tribulation in the world. People follow a strong and benevolent leader anywhere they go.
Pray for him!
@@VangelisFilms Many Orthodox Christians are praying for him! God works in mysterious ways and His Holy Spirit continues to illumine the hearts, minds, and souls of all those who seek the Truth (Christ).
You may not believe it, but Millions of people are praying for you! It's okay to accept God's overwhelming love.
He will bring Glory to The Father in his walk. I know he will 💙
Amen God would use Dr. Peterson in so many great way's. It's rare for highly brilliant minds to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. I'm praying for him and his family. Dr. Peterson could bring the spiritual to match the physical. I pray he will make the best decision he could ever make and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ! This is the Ladocia church and Jesus does not have one good thing to say about it. But God still has to save any one who believes Him. God is good all the way across the board.
@@seeinghearing4817 Amen he sure would.
@@Rest-in-JesusChrist7788 Why do you think it's so difficult for such a brilliant man to accept Jesus Christ. it's either he's not brilliant or Jesus is not the lord. Christians got the message wrong unfortunately. What AMAZED me lately i discovered that Jesus wasn't Christian but actually He was a Jew. THERE IS FUDEMINTALY SOMETHING WRONG WITH CHRISTIANTY.
@@az.84 Jesus Christ(ian) I said that because that's what the KJB says. It doesn't mean they won't get saved. You have to know that the Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom and understanding. There's worldly wisdom and Godly wisdom as written in the KJB. Jesus Christ was sinless, perfect and holy while He was on the earth. The word "Christian" is in the KJB.
Jordan seems very comfortable and vulnerable talking to Jonathon. Great convo
Jordan is a lot closer to the Lord than he may realize or understand. But for many of us who love and respect him, we can see and sense it clearly.
Unfortunately, he's overthinking it and torturing himself in the process. He is making himself ill.
@@lvrichardson7966 yep. I was an over thinker and still am in many ways. But I think to come to Christ one needs to let go of that habit, at least when it comes to this subject. We can never fully grasp God, and Jordan still appears to be able to expect to grasp Him. I’m glad I was able to let go and I hope he will manage to do the same - sooner rather than later.
@@adamzappia2213 I can relate to the over thinking, and you're right, we will never fully grasp God and trying to will drive one insane. His thoughts are greater than ours.
@@adamzappia2213 Absolutely! He's created in his mind a vision of God as an overwhelming force of morality (moral purity and judgement) that will overwhelm him if he were to surrender to the idea of it. God may very well be an overwhelming concept, but it's not necessary for mere mortals to know God in this way. That's reserved for our spirits when we die. Then we'll know God in his glory. Before that, enjoy the gift of your mortal existence while you can! I.e., enjoy the gift of life here and now. The rest will come in time.
Jordon, I'm so sorry you have been physically been suffering. I know the feeling.
It makes life so miserable/difficult.
Please look after yourself. Please.
Although I find it beyond myself to believe in religion. I love to listen to your perspective on the world.
Chronic pain, I've had for three years. It is hard to suffer. Without the sadness and anger.
It saddens me, for you. It saddens me for me.
Life is truly unfair.
Both of you have been integral in my journey towards Christianity. It is radically changing my life and I can't even begin to express how grateful I am for that. It pains me therefore to see Jordan in such dread. I pray that you may soon find grace
Amen
Likewise. Well said.
I love ur channel!!!
I THINK JESSE LEE PETERSON COULD HELP JORDAN TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND, IF ONLY HE WOULD HEED HIS ADVICE.
Same here.
Upon touching the divine mystery, Jonathan always seems on the edge of laughter and Jordan, tears. They're both right.
underappreciated comment!
This episode is the yin and the yang. The duality of tragedy and comedy that is the essence of existence.
@@Akirathedon92 oof. yes. this conversation itself is synchronistic in the Jungian sense. this is bleeding-edge thought concerning the world we've inherited.
I waded through hundreds of comments to find yours. Thank you.
Indeed, David... Jonathan as the one who embraces the divine mystery and Jordan as the one who is longing for it.
I thought about how Jordan said he doesn’t see Christian ideals manifest in Christians he sees. Aside from Jonathan mentioning the Saints as the examples, I think the other point to make is that we should turn the microscope on ourselves instead of others lives, as you might find in scripture. In doing so (sincerely) we can only grieve over the magnitude of our own personal iniquities we find, and in knowing them so intimately, suddenly our surface level perception of others becomes folly, and we see others, even our enemies, as brothers and sisters worthy of all the love we can give. They can only be good in comparison to the knowledge of our own sin. This is basically another manifestation of the self sacrifice of Christ that we are called to live out. So Jordan, do not be discouraged by us Christians, the sinners and hypocrites that we are! Forgive us for our poor testimony and our trespasses, though we be unworthy of forgiveness! God bless you.
So true. Well said.
Very good 👏👏 very much indeed.
Yes, this is a smart wat of going about it. It can be discouraging but it makes total sense with the cosmological view to back it and the fact that the most virtuous path would also be the hardest to maintain perfectly.
Amen
I agree, but as someone on the verge of returning to mass for the first time in years, it’s hard to let go of his example of the sexual abuse scandal and subsequent lack of response to it in the church. Though that doesn’t negate your point and maybe I need to let that go and, like you said, focus on the parts of the garden I can actually touch.
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)
How though? God will make my manager less abusive? Raise my wage to something livable?
@@Shinigami1016 you sound angry like wherever youre living right now they arent doing so good. dont blame wages and people's actions on God. The problem with people is they want God to do everything to prove he exists even though he gave us common sense and people wont use it....law makers and bad people are to blame for bad actions
@@edwincaraballo2414 I wasn't describing myself. lol T'was hypothetical.
Doesn't the quote literally say that god will make your job easier? I'm just asking how.
And his spirit is still light to this day. God is real.
@@Shinigami1016 I once asked myself this same thing, when I was 21 I accepted christ and my life changed drastically.
It's like getting to be a fly on the wall when Tolkien was talking with pre-Christian Lewis.
Very interesting comment friend.
Yes imagine Peterson becoming a huge Christian and writing tons of amazing Christian philosophical books like CS Lewis did.
@@tehdreamer He kinda already did, in Maps of Meaning! :)
What I would give
@@edgeofthought Well, he still is very far from Christianity in his book. He sometimes actually seems to be a "new ager" when speaking, for example, about the possibility of "possessing the Logos" (that's I saw in an interview) or all that talking about "caos" and "order", stucked in psychological and material domains, which is typical of modern mentallity, especially because we adopted cartesian reasoning, which is also in Galileu.
I love Peterson, but he must leave modernity once and for all. It is a fruit of a spiritual sickness.
These conversations are incredibly valuable.
Because?
As you do Lana
@@TheWorldTeacher Because JBP is profound and there's nearly 2 hours of conversation here sooooooooooooooo....
the word of the day will be
val·u·a·ble
/ˈvaly(o͞o)əb(ə)l/
adjective
worth a great deal of money.
"a valuable antique"
noun
a thing that is of great worth, especially a small item of personal property.
"put all your valuables in the hotel safe"
Agreed, Lana. Keep up your own positive efforts as well!
wait, you a Peterson fan?! Sweet!
JP "I'm the most confused person I have ever met." Exactly how I feel.
confusion is the beginning of wisdom - (variously ascribed)
Lets all please pray for Jordan. Lets pray God touches his heart so he can fully see the Glory of Christ. Jordan, if you ever do read this, please know that there is nothing to be terrified of. Through Jesus we're born again and with that comes a new heart, a new mind, and a new way of seeing the world and life as a whole. Again, lets all send our prayers out for Jordan, he's so close! Praise be to God.
Only Jesus.
@@hminchella7423 AMEN.
He is looking for the value in making the right “Choice”. Choice is why we are here! To Choose Christ! To be with God (as opposed to NOT being with God!) for eternity! Make the choice to be WITH God! And enjoy the journey on earth as each step we take HERE working for Him will reflect our station in Heaven for eternity! At least for the time during the Millennium! What Paul taught the Hebrews in the Epistle to the Hebrews!
Amen to that, although I think he already sees, he's merely trying to figure out and make sense of what he is seeing.
I think you should pray for yourself so that YOU see fully the Glory of Christ. Unless you're implying you already see it...
Jordan seems like he's having his Jacob to Israel transition moment. He's struggling immensely with God.
He's really struggling with God. However, it's also wonderful to see how fully honest he is with himself. Letting go your own idol completely and trusting fully in God can be a terrifying thing. Unlike the young wealthy man (Matthew 19:20), hope Dr. Peterson realizes how tremendous God's gift is and having Jesus Christ in our lives is worth everything we have and are. We aren't worthy of Him but yet He loves us so much!
That is for sure! I just wrote the exact same thing, only not as concisely. 😊
That seems like a good thing to me - if he hadn't struggled before it was well past due.
"Believe and you will understand."
-- St. Augustine
Pray for him because he very much needs it, it's just the indoctrination of contemporary education fogging his perspective
When he talked about christ and he cried, I really felt it.
could you share at what the time is that?
Me too
@@xerxer9251 23:09
agreed, I was only listening and could tell he was getting choked up
@@xerxer9251 I am curious. Are you not interested in the conversation? You just want to see him crying without the talk that leads to that moment? Why?
"The Fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom.”
How? Sounds like a sad way to live.
@@rebelraccoon9018 Translate that to normal-person speak. It means "parental discipline encourages good and prosocial behavior".
@@rebelraccoon9018 fear as in reverence not terror.
@@rtendotapiwa306 Makes more sense.
@@rebelraccoon9018 kanye put it pretty well
" you remove God, you remove the fear of God, you create the possibility of the fear of everything else. But watch this: If you instill the fear of God, you eliminate the fear of anything else."
All things were made by him, for him, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:18,19
YES!!!!
Yes, that's pure scripture.
Colossians 1:16-17 *** Small correction Brother
C. S. Lewis said, "God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
I have fibromyalgia and arthritis. My spine is slowly crushing more nerves as time passes. I am in constant pain. Today, my feet hurt so much that I can barely touch them. I feel every heartbeat in the soles of my feet. I have to dangle them over the bed so they don't rest on the soft mattress. My pain has brought me closer to my Creator. I see my grandchildren every day. My daughter and I bought a duplex and I am sharing my experience and the stories of my parents and grandparents with them. I know purpose.
God is the only one who understands my pain and can comfort me. I have something to look forward to that is so awesome. Being in God's presence, pain free, guilt free and without sadness, gives me strength.
When man is at his lowest, Christ is always there to pick you up.
Amen
Amen brother,
@matthew walke your comment made me cry
@@m.j.4100 no need to cry my friend, for Christ has already won the battle
God not Christ....
Christ is a prophet and a slave of God
Thought provoking and honest. Jordan will know what Lewis wrote: 'The terrible thing, the almost impossible thing, is to hand over your whole self, all your wishes and precautions, to Christ.'
This is exactly what I thought of when watching Jordan in this interview. May the grace of the Lord bring it to pass in Jordan's life. It is portrayed beautifully in the new film with Max McLean, The Most Reluctant Convert.
My whole self is working full time to keep me from turning over my life. Very frustrating when I know this is exactly what is required.
Illness is a distraction, keeping us absorbed in our self. Just like our thoughts. Like trying to describe our interpretation of “reality”. Until we turn it all over to God. How can something so simple be so difficult?
@@michaelg1569 can you give Him one moment, this very moment?
The fact that Dr Peterson's journey to Christ is unfolding before our eyes is glorious beyond belief 🙌
Amen
It really is!! God be praised 🙌
Even angels desire to look upon it!
Isn't it? I'm grinning throughout the whole interview!!
Please study Islam because it is very logical
Matthew 16:17 - "Jesus responded, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven'."
00000000000000000⁰⁰⁰900
Thank God for His children & He in them. Amen
Jonathan's laughing in the face of existential terror is the perfect counterpart to Jordan's serious grappling with life's greatest challenges.
@Joseph Ahern Laugh or cry- they are almost the same thing.
Exactly. I'm a little too eager to unconsciously mirror another person's energy but in this case, Johnathon did a great job asserting his own. That's really important and we can lift other people up when we stand in our truth.
Being who you are/ Believing in what you believe, even if your belief may hurt somebody else’s feelings, is what “standing up with your shoulders back” is all about.
Even though in my life atm I feel more Jordan than Jonathan, I can still tell what the right mode of being is ^^ Thank you Jordan for your help
For some reason, I always laugh in the most intense situations. I have surprised myself laughing in a warzone as bullets whizzed over my head, or sitting at the bedside of my dying best friend. I don't know how to explain it, but it is certainly not because I take Jordan's suffering lightly.
@@JonathanPageau I think it's because you recognize the absurdity of it all and the existence of an eternal soul. Actors upon the world's stage.
Just subbed to your channel btw. I'm listening to your deconstruction of the Kanye West interview with Joe Rogan. Your perspective helps elevate the rest of us. Thank you for being you!
Seeing Dr. Peterson crying like this at his own belief...it's strangely beautiful. Hard to put it into words, but how wonderful.
Jonathan is exactly the kind of friend JBP needs in order to set himself back on track again.
Exactly what I’ve pondering while I watched and listened. Jonathan helped him smile as wide as he could muster. For all this Vervaeke, Vanderklay, Pageau bantering about, Jonathan and Jordan quite clearly have a beautiful connection. In what can only be perceived as a marvelous reflection of the symbolism Jonathan shares, teaches, and creates. Jonathan the fringe artist believer, ministering to the brilliant fringe outsider who confounds so many Christians with the attractiveness of his wisdom is absolutely beautiful...what may come, will come.
His sense of humor combined with his Christian and premodern mindset is such a great companion to Jordan. They really compliment one another, glad to see them together again.
In some way I felt like a fly on the wall watching a beautiful intimate conversation between two close friends.
This is true, walk with God
Exactly. He picks Jordan from the airport. They even went to Church together 😂
“You will seek me and find me when you seek me with ALL YOUR HEART” (Jeremiah 29:13).
I believe Jordan will figure this out with God..he has "The Truth Will Set You Free" on his side
Amen.. I believe he is on his way.
What happens when you fully believe? Freedom from this world. Freedom can be terrifying to those who spent their entire life locked up.
It's even harder when your someone of statute and wealth as Christ destroys the social status.
I can see why Jordan is terrified.
@@standrew3152 that was my exact initial thought, but that maybe he does have faith in Christ and touches on it deeply but won’t expressly proclaim it because he fears it would liquidate his audience. But he is slowly showing people the truth of the Bible while maintaining his audience to also bring it to them.
@@Ommateum truly knowing Christ gives the spirit a bravery never known before, a boldness to speak of Him. Especially the brand new Christian who's spirit has just been risen from dead to alive. Keep praying, we cannot assume someone is saved. If they do not declare it then they most likely are not.
Jordan, your humility is breathtaking. May god bless you, sir.
Just throwing it out there, Peterson could continue his Bible series by having weekly conversations with Pageau.
I hope everyone can appreciate how profound this conversation is
If they don't its probably not a matter of lack of intellectual capacity as much as fear of the implications.
@@crisjones7923 might be both (I'll be thinking about this conversation for a while)
Not sure my brain took them all in - I plan to replay it; maybe a couple of times. Also, this was my introduction to Jonathan Pageau.
@nigel_bd lol is that a Dave Rubin reference?
Yep, I agree.
It is amazing to see a man who has helped countless people, now have the support and prayers of thousands of others. We are all rooting for you Jordan, with tears and prayers.
That was beautifully put!!
What does he need?
"When Jesus is all you have, you find that Jesus is all you need."
Amen
That's so true and so beautiful. Thanks 👍
It is a startling realisation. Dr Peterson is what led me back to Jesus, even when he himself appeared to be in doubt.
Couldn't have said any better. Jesus is the only way to Salvation. I pray for Dr. Peterson
@@danetrumbore2203 Once Jesus is in your life your willing to do whatever you can to serve him...but you have to let him in first, which is something people need to do constantly to show that love back to him!
Being a Muslim, I am thus a reader of our own Ghazalian philosophy. And being a philosopher yourself, you would be familiar with the saying that, if one removes the essence and accidents, upon layer, what is left at the kernel of every defiance is one and one thing only. Hubris. When I listened to this talk here, I did not feel that what stops you now from submitting to Christ is caused by hubris. I feel you are still entangled in abstractions and conceptualizations. One must never chide you for that because that is your gift to us in the first place. I do hope however, Dr Peterson, that you learn to trust that the Giver of your intellect and love, Loves you. Bless you.
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It didn't take too long before two Canadians started talking about hockey.
It's good seeing people from the Symbolic World group in the comments hahaha
There's Christ, and there's hockey. What else is worth taking about?😆
Just missing beer 😅
Ey there, ey?
Don Cherry did nothing wrong.
There's a school of thought that says...the reason why God became human, it is so we may know, that he knows what suffering is. This is powerful in my view.
Amen.
I appreciate you saying this. You reminded me of two verses that I hope can be encouraging to each of us:
Hebrews 4:15, ESV: "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
1 Peter 3:18, ESV “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,”
There's so much more to this wonderful story called life. To really think about it would take many lifetimes. At some point we have to take it in faith or trust those are the same if you ask me.
Be well thinkers!
It is that thought that makes me rather appreciate suffering even though I may not enjoy it.
Since suffering is part of the life experience anyway.
Jung? Answer to Job?
Hang in there Jordan. I was on a high dose of benzos for 5 years. When I stopped taking them my mind completely broke. I could not think straight. Time and space were totally warped and I began seeing hidden messages everywhere. I was in terrible pain every second of every day and each second seemed like an hour. I forgot how to play guitar and would weep constantly. This and so much more lasted about 2 years. It DOES get better! By the third year I felt more or less myself although I was forever changed by the experience. Stay strong JP! We need you!
wow, you've been through a lot. Keep shining your light in the darkness my friend.
@@meatofpeach i hope this reaches Jordan. Its brutally apparent that he needs us more than we need him at this point in time. He's been to hell and back and we as a community of his viewers need to be as supportive and understanding of his circumstances. Lets not ask for him to give us more and instead give back to him with as much if not more encouragement than he has given to us.
As an Orthodox Christian, I'm rooting for God in the long run. But, for the here and now and short-term future, I'm praying for guys like you to bring the wisdom to him. Peace, from an old-garden variety drunk.
Feels like these drugs are pure evil if they can make people suffer so much. I pray to God we would get to our senses. How many doctors know of the side effects and dismiss them? I'm trying to not eat carbs, helps with my psoriasis and my mood is much better. Maybe there is a way to not depend on drugs so much.
Damn.. just the fact you survived that is a bloody miracle (yes I heard JP saying those two words in my head 😁).
Makes me sick to my stomach to think how much those drugs have been prescribed so carefree and the amount of suffering it has brought to so many people who were just seeking for help...
Jonathan, it’s so amazing in how caring and sensitive you were with Jordan. He is really searching, and needs answers and guidance, but you were so respectful to not bombard him. He seems so fragile, this talk really made me sad and I cried many times. God bless you both and I’ll pray for you ❤️🙏
That was the most wholesome ending to the video you can imagine. As someone also continuously suffering for months struggling as well with the issue of trust it gave me some healing.
For all those that read this: let's pray for Jordan and all of us suffering in any way, may there come a light to him and us, as we are all one in Christ.
@Vilfredo Pareto there are so many logical leaps in your analogy, I can't even...
I pray for Jordan and his family regularly.
@Vilfredo Pareto "Most peoples are Christian but that doesn't mean it is good or right, most of the peoples here are Christians and all they do is feed each other nonsense, the whole religion is based on believing in fantasy so you can feel good for thinking about it. That is it."
If I understand you correctly, then beeing religous is believing in a fantasy, that makes you feel good. I dont exactly understand what you mean by "feel good for thinking about it". I guess you mean that the fantasy is also empty. But then "fantasy" is not an ideal word for what you are trying to criticize. Consider the fact that the way we act out the meaning in our lives is resempled by the way we tell ourselves stories. If you read a novel by Stephen King, what part about it is not real exactly? If the story is not real, the how come the characters can act believable in it? And why are you scared of a fictional monster? Religious stories are in a way fantasy and in many ways not. Maybe a better way of thinking about it: The bible is a story above all stories. It is more real, if you will. It is much closer to a living organism that produces meaning if you venture into it. It is much more frightening than just a good feeling. Jordan Peterson has a lot on that, if you are interested.
"The feeling of feeling good is enough reason for people to throw away all common sense and rational thinking, like a class 5 illegal drug."
Again, I dont really know what you mean by this. But I can imagine, that there are a lot of religious people, who like the welcoming -> good? feeling a religion gives. I dont understand whether you have a problem with that, or with the stories beeing empty, which is a strange thing to asume, if you call it a fantasy at the same time (see above). If I accept your feeling good-point for a moment, than that is now beeing compared to a drug, that is beeing used against all rationality. I get that, people really want to feel good, so they act stupid, take drugs etc.
"People use drugs that is bad for them, they abuse the drug, when the only good thing it does is make them feel good.
Christianity is the exact same thing. It is a trade-off that is worth it for them."
This is the actual point, that beeing religous is like drug abuse, Christianity beeing the drug, the trade-off. Is this drug still a fantasy? "Abusing" the drug religion is leading to a good feeling, and that is bad, because it's actually a fantasy? Or they dont realize that the fantasy is actually a drug, that is harmful? I dont think the drug analogy is very helpful, escpecially coming from your point about religion beeing a fantasy. It's not obvious, where beeing religious starts or ends, whereas that is very obvious in the case of a drug you take. Also, it is now very obvious, that you are just attacking your personal idea of a religion, or the way in which people are religous around you. And what exactly is beeing traded off? Rationality and common sense? How do you live a life according to rationality? Or common sense? These aren't the ideals of your life, they are instruments along the way. Living a rational live isn't living at all, it's beeing already dead without realising it. And living a life according to common sense is just the most boring life possible.
"Funny thing is, if you ever deprive them of it, they get cranky and very angry or upset, just like illegal drugs that are hurting them."
Well, religion tends to form your identity, since it is after all the truth you consider to be meaningful. And beeing deprived of the meaning in your life tends to make anybody "upset". A drug, rather the addiction to it, can also form your identity, but is obviously dependend on a physical/chemical process at its core, which in turn may influence your biology and hence your psyche. Beeing religous is not really comparable to that, since we already lack that starting physical process as a point. Religion is always already pointing towards those beeing religious and vice versa.
Godspeed
and in christ we once all will be free^^
amen
@Vilfredo Pareto dont feed the troll, but every substance that can be abused, can heal, too. and therefore it is not only harmful, can help to heal, too. sometimes it is even a cure, f.e. the forced enlightment through n-DMT , that wont give you the trip you want, but the trip you need. but i dont thinka spoiled kid like you has enouh balls, to go that far into the unknown (btw, every human beeng carrying the precursor for it in his spinal gland and it will be set free the moment you will die), if THAT is no proof for the existence of a gracefull etnitity, then you may be as stupid as you are annoying, but even someone, who neither did anything for getting it,or maybe wont even deserve to be salvated, a dork. a guy like you. has it, nevertheless, too.
“Obedience, fasting, and prayer are laughed at, yet only through them lies the way to real true freedom. I cut off my superfluous and unnecessary desires, I subdue my proud and wanton will and chastise it with obedience, and with God’s help I attain freedom of spirit and with it spiritual joy.”
- Fyodor Dostoevsky
Thank you.
"If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" We are free when we come back to our Creator and Savior
Yeah and was totally miserable. Religion is a pile of horse shit. Only grace sets is free
That is a great quote, and well timed, but all I can hear is "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
That is a great quote, and well timed, but all I can hear is "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Was nearly in tears at the end of this, incredibly courage on Petersons part to speak so openly about his spiritual struggles, and his doubts about his own character. Truly heroic in my opinion i hope the Dr. can heal so he doesn't have to be quite so heroic going forward.
I barely made it 15 mins in and I was a mess...
AGREED!!!!
Well of course JBP has doubts about his own character - he's controlled opposition for the interests of anti-nationalist (anti-white) global power. He knows his public advocacy is rooted in malice, yet he keeps doing it for the shekels.
@@bryanedds8922
Hopefully the depth of your cynicism doesn't lead you down a path that brings suffering to those around you... 😔
@@bryanedds8922 Hopefully one day you might find happiness.
May God bless you, Jordan. When I started listening to you 5 years ago I was in the deepest, darkest pit of despair imaginable and today I'm a catechumen in my local Orthodox church. Your role in this dramatic change in my life cannot be understated. I hope that you are able to find relief from your suffering, and pray that perhaps Christ can help you in the way He has helped me.
"they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the sea-and they were terrified. But Jesus spoke up: “It is I; do not be afraid.” Then they were willing to take Him into the boat, and at once the boat reached the shore" (John 6)
Reminds of the Seraphim Angels greeting men saying the same thing because of their out of this world look.
It’s in the storm, where the objective meets the narrative!
Dr. Peterson’s story reminds me a little bit of the story of Job
Me too. I can't help but think that was what Dr. Peterson thought of when his voice broke while he was speaking about synchronicity at 23:10
Let^s pray the outcome may be a similar one, then :-)
Many of us are Job.
@@jonnyw82 or even job-less?
JOrdan B
Peter's son
I grew up a catholic ( in Ireland) but my mother died of cancer when I was 9 years old. I abandoned religion and was nihilistic and angry for many years, was in rehab at 19 from drink and drugs...spent another 20years drifting and wandering aimlessly...I started listening to Jordan and the biblical series about 3 or 4 years ago. It changed my life and refocused me and gave me hope, positivity, peace and spirituality. Thank you
go neirigh an bothar leat
God bless you John. Glad you are back on track brother.
@@hectorcarillosullivan5557 thank you
Might I recommend Western Orthodoxy, in particular, if the Novis Ordo remains a stumbling block?
Let's all pray for Jordan Peterson.
Jordan B. Peterson seems to have his attention captured on and off by C. S. Lewis. It would be fantastic if he took a glance at The Everlasting Man, a book that G. K.Chesterton' wrote, which shook C. S. Lewis to his very foundations.
Praying for the day that Jordan can be without pain, and can smile with ease.
That will happen when he stops being a lying charlatan in other words never.
@@HenningDiesel Jeez...
@@HenningDiesel WTF? Why are you even here?
@@HenningDiesel What has he lied about?
@@HenningDiesel, please thinks again if you really mean what you communicate. It is so negative.
That ending had me in tears. When Jonathan said "Your story isn't over yet", and Jordan replied - "So much the pity for me"... man that hit me so hard I instantly wept. Jordan, you have no idea how much you mean to so many, and how valued you are even in spite of your pain. You give me hope for the future, even though you might not have any for yourself. If I could, I would take the burden of your pain and add it to my own so that you might be free, but I can't. The best I can do is pray for you and do what I can to help you on your quest of finding justification in spite of your suffering. God Bless You Jordan, and your family. May these enduring trials and tribulations help you to find what you're looking for. We're with you.
Praying for you, JP. You helped my son profoundly (he travelled to your talk in Oxford) and have put maný pieces together for me.
You will emerge in God's time. Your contribution is magnificent.
You are squaring the circle in the truest sense, bridging the religious experience with the rational mind. That is the Aquarian project, is it not?
As someone who went through half a life time of anxiety, I look back on it as the midwife of creativity. You will come through - and you do not need the mainstream media.
Oh God please, not the mainstream media. I wanna volunteer as Jordan's PR guy so much... With respect, even before but especially after the Time article, I saw how much it was needed.
I guess I better put my room in order, to one day get my chance in helping the person that saved me.
♥️
So beautiful to see so many people turn to Christ after hearing this 🙏 ⛪️
What does it mean turning to Christ
Dear Jordan, remember what Aslan said to Jill: "There is no other stream."
Jesus is looking at you, calling your name. You have helped so many people, now let Him help you.
Amén.
Agree. Amen 🙏🏼
both men need to look to Jesus. The one is looking through the lens of Religion; that there is some absurd notion he can do something that will please God outside of the simplicity of surrender. The only path to God is full release. Not DOING something! Jesus came to help those who are lost in the entrapment of believing God is impressed with what we do. God calls it as “filthy rags” - mensural rags! It is THAT ugly to God! Only through the extension of Jesus to man can man know the love of God! Going to a Priest to confess makes Jesus a liar. Believing Mary has some supernatural power makes GOD a liar! Jesus said I an the way ... and God said He was pleased in the FULL accomplishments for salvation! “In no other man...” and yet, people like the moderator, slap God in the face by acting against His wishes!
It’s the journey
It’s a personal relationship
… “Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them. Mark 10:15,16
A very poignant verse.
I do say that those that truly deserve the kingdom of god do not ask or demand it. They will get what they truly entitled to wether they want it or not and that how any judgement should be.
Yeah that is another good one. :)
Nonsense. The idea that God would create a being with the vast amount of intellect that has been given to humans, and then say reduce yourself to the thinking abilities of a child is preposterous.
As I'm listening, I thinking I see how JBP is struggling with the God idea. It is one I've experienced as a struggling alcoholic introduced to the idea of a Higher Power through a 12 Step Program. My stumbling block was that I had to figure out what God is, define Him, many times asking "why?". A statement Jordan made, that he can't believe in that which he cannot fully understand nor comprehend. I realized I will never figure God out, He is too much beyond our human brains, and even our hearts to be fully enlightened all at once, it would be too overwhelming for any of us. This is where spiritual experiences plays a vital role, no matter how small, I "get God" a small piece 24 hours at a time. If I ask(pray), willing to receive the messages, stay open minded about where that faith will lead me, and carry out His work in a principled Godly manner, I've I get exactly what and how much I need to get me through the day.
It's a process, and understanding, a growing relationship that builds one step at a time, one foot in front of the other, walking in faith rather than by sight(ego). It's like a good marriage with growing understanding, trust, and a crescendo of love with the heart, rather than the head. A balance between the spiritual and the ego, the order and chaos, retiring at night with an honest review of acts and words I did "right", and admission of my wrongs in the presence of "kind, loving, and All Powerful God". He then sees to it where I can make my amends, and strive towards a better me if I ask for His guidance. Ongoing understand-ING, not me knowing or figuring out who God is before I strive up towards a higher example of his grace. Been working for almost 6 years, next week, sober, God willing😉🙏😇 God bless you all✌
0:07:55 Daily routine
0:10:22 The desire to have an enemy
0:18:22 Conceptualizations of Christ
0:21:55 Difference between mythological gods and Christ
0:27:58 Attention plays a part in the way the world lays itself out
0:28:19 Our secular world is a strange aberration on how reality used to exist for every culture in every time from the beginning of time
0:29:22 The world lays itself out in modes of being and modes of being have you. (I am that I am)
0:29:57 NHL example
0:31:53 Bret Hitman Hart example
0:32:48 Drama Patterns and the Christ pattern
0:34:08 Why Christians insist on the fact that Christ is not just a story
0:35:20 The way [the church] lives isn't sufficient testament to the truth
0:36:10 Hierarchy of manifestation, gift of tears(joyful sorrow)
0:37:39 The moral weight of acknowledging the existence of God
0:38:55 Imma let you finish, but the yolk of Christ is the most light and joyful OF ALL TIME (An aside, I feel for JBP and trust that he will find the peaceful solace which he seems to be seeking.🙏❤️)
0:40:44 Hidden mysteries. (As above, so below; As within, so without. God became man, that man may become God.)
0:42:00 Projecting your imagination. Carl G Jung's Aion
0:45:42 The last story.
0:47:42 Imagination. Be AWARE of that things you give attention to, as that's what gives LIFE to them.
0:49:07 Narrative and objective worlds touching.
0:50:20 Imagination. Lodestar. Be AWARE of that things you give attention to, as that's what births LIFE to IDEAS.
0:52:20 The highest aim requires communal endeavour.
0:54:24 The whole idea of better, the Christ idea/drama
0:55:44 The goodness of creation, the big conflict between the early gnostics and Christians
0:57:40 Theosis
0:58:55 Selling that story that meaning is to be found in responsibility
1:00:11 The adventure of trying to aid things in the manifestation of their divine form. (The practice)
1:01:28 Importance of community
1:07:07 The strange return of religion in the form of the woke phenomenon
1:10:26 Faith as Trust
1:13:25 Personal question - Pageau On his Orthodox/theosis journey
1:15:22 St. Irenaeus - Logos became man, that man may become God. We're all God, all you need to do is be still and choose this day.
1:17:42 Virgin birth
1:20:20 They will know you how you love each other
1:27:42 Theosis comes back
1:33:08 I want to talk a little bit about Heaven
Thank you! ☺️
@@markyuto6820 you're welcome 🙏❤️
Keep going!
@@bryanramirez1280 thank you for the encouragement 🙏❤️The highest aim requires communal endeavour😉🤙
@@dankindcom lol 😂 - love it.
I enjoy listening to Jordan Peterson , this man will never know the depth in which he ministers. I do pray he finds that perfect peace that surpasses all understanding in Christ Jesus .
Jordan: you will find the truth, and the weight of it will not crush you as you suppose. “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” It will be a joyful relief, as if you were deaf, but now you hear. I’m excited for you. And you’ll still be human.
"The gospel is called the ‘good news’ because it addresses the most serious problem that you and I have as human beings, and that problem is simply this: God is holy and He is just, and I’m not. And at the end of my life, I’m going to stand before a just and holy God, and I’ll be judged. And I’ll be judged either on the basis of my own righteousness-or lack of it-or the righteousness of another. The good news of the gospel is that Jesus lived a life of perfect righteousness, of perfect obedience to God, not for His own well being but for His people. He has done for me what I couldn’t possibly do for myself. But not only has He lived that life of perfect obedience, He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice to satisfy the justice and the righteousness of God."- R.C.Sproul
Perfect
Praying JP comes to understand this 🙏🏻 he knows the bad news. He has expounded on the idea of human suffering which is exasperated by malevolence. That’s our depravity. Now he needs to embrace the GOOD NEWS which is Jesus Christ.
Thats really good!
What makes you think God required perfection from us? He knows we aren’t capable of it. I’m not sure Jesus believed this either. Just a friendly question.
PTL
Christ be with you, Dr. Peterson.
And also with you
And Zeus too.
Buddha as well.
@@islandonlinenews Come on, dude....
@@islandonlinenews For Jesus to be real, others don't have to be false. All the religions, in different words or forms, for our own sake and temperament point to one Ultimate Reality. When we reach there, we'll see no difference between Krishna, Jesus or Allah.
Watching this old video from 3 years ago and now in 2024 seeing the healed strong Jordan ! ♥️
Jonathan Pageau's effervescent joy is really quite compelling.
He’s wonderful.
I hope some of it rubs off on Jordan.
What
I know what you mean. I've always thought of the two of them as a pair like the two masks of drama 🎭 because Jordan cannot keep from crying and Jonathan cannot keep from laughing all the time. 😢😂 I think many of us relate to Jordan and, like him, long for what Jonathan has. So much love for them. This conversation is epic. 🙏 Thank you for being this intimate in public JPs.
@@daniellehampton8634 well said.
I was just going to comment that I love his laughter! It’s that kind of boyish laughter and smile that bring joy just to see and hear it 😁
I cannot see how, even if you disagree with him at the profoundest level, you cannot be in total awe of Jordan Peterson. His integrity, self honesty, determination, empathy, conscience, discipline, intellectual rigour, bravery, stamina, sensitivity, compassion, etc, etc, etc. Wow!
Exactly!!! That's what I was thinking!!! What a great human being!!
Right, i mean i think it must come from a decent childhood/educational background. But above all else id say scientific objectivity as well as respect for ideas while being grounded first and foremost, so yeah great guy surely much intellectual rigor here which is seen clearly in his respect for past intellectuals and philosphers.
Wisdom starts with a wish to have it.
I’d say what Mrs Peterson need is Credo, Pater Noster, Ave Maria, Rosary for few weeks and then Confession. Maybe he could stop being such an egoist. He talks about his issues all the time! Deal with them already Mr Peterson :). The last bit he hasn’t given up yet is keeping him from peace...
Poor protestants, they seems to be longing for Truth which is universal, but their separatation and pride is keeping them from coming back to Catholic Church. This is the missing part for Mr Peterson’s peace. Sacraments and obiedience. But he will never give up his ‚right to not be boxed in’ so he might die suffering like this without answers. I hope he will make it to FSSPX (they are not only agaist corrupted hierarchy, but also whole Vaticanum II!) some day. Peace to you reading it :)
Edit: he even quotes himself as a heretic at 34:00. Does he really believe he can just use Jesus’s teaching but when it comes to action he prefers his ‚own version’ of the cross (without the Church and Sacraments)?
Like when Jesus started the Church he made a mistake according to Jordan?
‚One cannot have God for the Father if one doesn’t have the Church for the Mother.’ St. Thaschus Caecilius Cyprianus
This is his pride that drags him into depressions. It is the guilt and shame and lack of action. You lack the sacrifice for One God in Three Persons. You slighly on Cain side here.
Mrs Jordan, you amuse me! You actually have given yourself a cure, a tip that would cure you if you applied it. You yourself also, as you said in 36:00 ‚dont manifest transformation of attitude that enables the outside observer to easily conclude that they believe’.
Your attitude is exactly like that towards Sacraments and Church that enables them. There is no salvation outside the Church. Due to Original Sin your nature is flawed and wounded (wound of ignorance, wound of will, lust, rage). You need Church’s Sacraments to achieve the state of Grace to heal the wounds. It is the one thing that you don’t wanna do, that it would heal you - Body of Christ. Your eyes will open up, that is the Light.
God will keep you in the state of depression (sin) as long as you keep trying reach Salvation your own way. The way is already there, but go to FSSPX, avoid Novus Ordo Missae.
BTW: It was Jordan Peterson who ‚picked me up’ from depressed state and atheism. But I never stopped at Jung and searched and found the Whole Truth, including the Catholic Church and Sacraments. Go to FSSPX if you would like to find out yourself :)
55:15 why should you believe that? It is written, Christ is a solution to humanity’s problem. Messiah they called Him. Humanity had a problem, so its Creator sent help. Everyone had its own version of Truth at the time (like we do today) and Christ was universal solution. Why wouldn’t you believe it?
THEY HAVE UNCROWNED HIM - Marcel Lefebvre. It should answer most of Jordan’s questions asked by him in this interview.
@@zawepygler1223 Protestants don't have obdeince and sacraments? And I'm curious if salvation is only thru the Church how people that live alone, say in the wilderness, could be saved?
@@WideAwakeHuman Well, a priest in Poland drove 600km in Kazakhstan to confess his sins. If they care about Truth, what stops them in wilderness?
The famous C.S. Lewis Trilemma: "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
He never claimed to be God nor did he ask to be worshipped but the power of Christ can convince you.
@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69
Jesus is God
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 20:27-28 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Colossians 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you're talking about.
When asked DIRECTLY if He was the One who was foretold, and the Son of God, He answered, "I am."
@@andrewjaeger8318 I like the fact that He said, He who would be greater must be servant to, (paraphrasing)...
@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 When Jesus said," Isn't it written, Ye are gods?"...
When I think of God's will it takes it much more than is written in the Bible. I may be wrong but decades of contemplating God has led me to believe all is of God since He created all. Saying He may even be a misnomer as God created both male and female. Only reference is about women being weaker of the sexes and I can only think it refers to the predisposition of males being more disposed to logic while females more disposed to being guided by emotions. I don't think of women as lesser but see that the two working together form a completeness in approaching many subjects of child rearing... where each by themselves tends to be lacking.... Jesus was of God's mind and able to say He and his Father are one. Was He just referring to their thinking, a direct biological descendancy, or even more as He according to scripture was able to perform miracles including raising the dead.? There is always something fascinating in the search for God to contemplate.
To both of you, isn’t it amazing how God puts necessary people in one’s path? I believe that you both have gained (been blessed) so much by his guidance.
Them, and probably most people who watched this video. Which is a lot of people.
I've been praying for Jordan - He's such a likeable and seemingly honest man.
This honestly brings joy to my heart.
He genuinely is seeking truth and he is currently in the refiner’s fire and I suspect he will come out a renewed man. Amen
He is a wolf in sheeps clothing and very fake christian.
@Cosmic Jack I don't know him personally so how could I tell?
Besides a basic teaching of the Bible is only God is good.
RUclips channels:
- Orthodox Ethos
- Mull Monastery
- Orthodox Talks Priestmonk Kosmas
- Father Spyridon
- Monk Arseniye from Serbia
- Patristic Nectar Father Josia Trenham
- Orthodox teaching of the Elders
“I’m the most confused person I know”
Your honesty and transparency throughout this whole internet season of your life is blessing millions.
Here I thought I was confused and admired how much you have figured out...thanks for keeping it real JBP.
God, please continue to bless him.
Yup. That uncompromising honesty is so admirable and trying to follow his example makes us all better people.
Yes I quite enjoy his videos and his candor. It’s nice to see people who actually do have their feet on the path of knowledge and it is truly only that which will carry us into the next step of our humanity and our relationship with the divine. The stereotypical image of modern men especially white modern man is such a mischaracterization that we must go forward and correct this view. How is the big question? We have to figure out how to reach across the aisle and educate people without looking like we are trying to be condescending towards those who are sorely misinformed. It does present a real challenge doesn’t it? I think lead by example would work better if they were even actually looking, but they aren’t looking at anything seriously that we do. Which complicates things further. Plain talk may be the only solution. Show them what we are about. I think that’s what Jordan tries to do everyday. We must follow his lead. God bless you all.
AMEN every word
@@moomoocowsly I agree and I also think there is another aspect of all of this that evades most. It started for me in my early twenties that at night when I would lay my head on my pillow and try to go to sleep I would hear children crying out tormented and in pain. This went on for some time, but it really bothered me. I eventually learned to block it out. It hurt my heart and some part of me knew that it was real. It is only in learning over the last few years that in fact many millions of children have been abducted tortured, molested and in some cases killed that maybe I was hearing the children for real? My ancestor St. Vincent De Paul believed that the church tends to over disparage people to a point that Jesus is so far out of our reach that we could never hope to be like him or even close. While he believed that we could all be like Jesus and maybe not as Good as he but it was in each of our abilities to at least try and be that person we all know we can be. No we can’t be Jesus but we can be more like him than we are. The biggest issue most people have is motivation. Tell me that you are person who really cares about people and that your motivation isn’t simply to avoid eternal damnation. Better yet prove it. I think you can see where I’m coming from there.
I loooove when Jordan Peterson talks about God and religion ♡ I also became a Christian about a year ago because of him. I started reading the bible, praying and going to Orthodox liturgy. If someone told this to my woke self three years ago I would have not believed it
❤️🙏🏻🌹
Yeah, he really gets it.
I experienced a similar thing. While I am not Christian and struggle with things (a lot like Peterson is), I am speaking regular to both God and a Christian friend in hope to truly believe. 🙏 ❤
@@lunarose9042 Good luck on your journey back home! You can do it, Jesus is waiting for you with open arms.
@@lunarose9042 Ask Him to change you. He is faithful to forgive our sin, he died for us while we were still sinners, and He loves us, and loves you. He has set out good things for us before creation. I pray for the Lord to soften your heart, like He changed mine a few years ago!
Orthodoxy shapes our behavior.. and thats something Peterson sees in Jonathan. Peterson opens up to Jonathan because he feels the presence of God and the Holy Spirit on Jonathan. He doesnt know that yet but its something there that makes him feel that he can rely on Jonathan and open up. This is Gods calling to the one and true church Orthodoxy. Whoever gets what im saying good for you. Glory to God ❤
I'm not even a Christian and I found this to be an incredible and beautiful conversation on the nature of faith. Peterson is clearly on the cusp of a religious transformation. He's studied the scriptures and ideas of what it means for decades, but now it seems it's striking a more personal and deeper resonance due to his suffereing. Almost as if his very essence is crying out to embrace it fully, while his intellect and ego try to resist. I hope he finds the peace he seeks.
I think you nailed it! His spiritual side is winning, though.
@@curtismrasmussen Agreed.
Well said. .
He will have to reject Darwin
@@andyisdead Why would you even say something like that? Because in your mind it is so? There's many paths to faith and most people don't even seek one. Jordan is taking baby steps in the right direction, don't start dictating you're personal beliefs. Instead of encouragement, you through rocks on the road.
I absolutely love this man. I love his honesty and I admire him being so vulnerable and transparent in front of the world. I always leave his videos a better person. God bless you Jordan
I'm so touched by Jordan's willingness to be publicly open and vulnerable. Prayers for recovery & grace.🙏
I already know this podcast episode won't get the recognition it deserves. Jonathan Pageau should be more up there with great thinkers. He's very insightful.
He is not playing that game
Truth, I’ve went through all the “IDW” and the like and JP is the only one I still bother to pay attention to. I do wish Jordan the best though, he has a special place in many hearts as a sort of guidepost.
HE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE VERY BRIGHT BUT SEEMS LIKE A NICE ENOUGH GUY.
@@DOOMJESUS why do u think he isnt bright?
and a true homophobe, that's how bad dogma ends up f...ing you. hope he updates..
I don't know if the two of you, Jordan and Jonathan, understand how much you are helping people out there, myself included. These kind of talks are invaluable. God bless
As an Orthodox Jew, I found the last point about who you worship and needing to aim at God to fix the world incredibly fascinating. Pretty epic to hear that on my morning commute into Jerusalem, passing by the Temple Mount. Thank you both.
was fascinated by the exact same part of the conversation. Been reading Genesis the last two weeks and I'm profoundly moved by the destructive nature of some of the characters there and yet there is this full awareness of the covenant of Adonai to Abraham that directs and centers the entire family. Joseph was clear in his understanding that Adonai was the one who allowed the pain and suffering he experienced in order to avert even more pain and suffering for the whole family down the road. Can there be any other alternative but to worship God like David does in Psalm 18?
To see Jordan wrestling so...it's refreshing. To have a leader of this sort willing to display his wrestling and not present himself as perfect and graciously allow himself to be talked to like a child with a father is something I very rarely see with leaders in the west. Would that more were willing to be humble and contrite. Certainly the God of Israel dwells with the lowly and contrite of spirit and it is we that have to learn that thru pain we find the one thing that God sees...a person who will hear him like a child ready for help.
Awesome. Just awesome!
God bless you bother!
That’s pretty cool, ya know.☺️
Im reading domian by tom holland so your comment for me reflects how connected we all are.Hearing seeing j+j speaking is such a positive hopeful sign at this strange time.Go gently!
I seriously, seriously cannot believe we get to witness intimate conversations like these. Does anyone else feel the magnitude of these discussions and their likely implications on our history? Bless you JP & JBP.
Feel it
I agree🙏🏼
It's a revolution in all senses, I see it everywhere
Fantastic talk - some of the best I've seen. My heart goes out to Jordan!
man
Reinforces my belief that all truth is God’s Truth. The more we delve into any discipline: scientific, psychological, spiritual, etc. the more we’ll find Him.
I have found this true as well.
Amen!
G.K. Chesterton said, whether you’re talking pigs or binomials you’re still talking about God, which is relatively true.
God or in other words faith. Something we cant see, but believe in through intuition. But should one give into a doctrine? To conform to a religious group? If so, which one is the correct one? Or is any religion a vehicle to envelope in faith? But if theres sectors in religions, wouldnt that causes conflict since it splits god into groups? Who to say that your god is the correct god type deal. How should one really approach faith? Should one conform to a doctrine?
@@humanbean1424 Honestly there is no need for any religious groups to exist. The reason you see so many is because people are gullible and Satan is trying to deceive folks.
Another reason is that when christians come together in large amounts to fellowship together in a certain building/area with certain princibles, unions and other collective things are formed which are denominations in a sense.
Which one is correct? None. Religion won't get you to heaven. Jesus will. But if you want/have to choose then its generally a good thing to pick a denomination which is closest to the Bible, I've found Baptists to be closest.
Jordan is like Job here wrestling with God. Incredible that a man so strong can have his moments of doubt as well.
Jonathan treats Jordan with amazing and palpable kindness and grace. Such tenderness is heartwarming , and especially gratifying to see expressed to such a monumental man who is clearly suffering. Thanks to Jonathan - I’m breathless- for assisting in Jordan’s healing. Blessings.
Well said. For me it's heartbreaking though, to witness Jordan's struggle with belief in Jesus. To express love, belief, and honor for Jesus can be simple and does not need to be phrased like a linguistic giant. Perhaps he's afraid to say it, at least in public. I pray it becomes much less complicated for him... It is an individual relationship between yourself and Jesus. All this striving, suffering, "trying", is just a struggle against God pulling him closer. The struggle hurts physically sometimes! 🙏 🙏 Jordan please just ask Jesus to show you the way... you'll receive the Holy Spirit to guide you and help your understanding.
I think Jonathan is complicating it (in trying to be relatable to Jordan), though he is correct: we (including Jordan) need the community of true, though imperfect, believers. Imperfect of course appears hypocritical to non-believers.
All religious people who really believe have that since of calmness because they are in full belief, nothing can shake them when they feel god is on their side. I see it in people as an identifier that this person is gone in their beliefs.
It's hard to let go of the idea that you can understand existence but eventually life beats that out of you.
What happened to him? What is he healing from?
@@ladyd4098 benzodiazapine post acute withdrawal syndrome amongst other things.
Jordan , “...it’s hard for thee to kick against the pricks.” I believe you’re on your “road to Damascus.”
...but NOT because you prosecuted the Christians!!!
To hear Peterson reference Lewis brings intense excitement.
Totally feel you!👏👏
C.S. Lewis discovered the truth and never looked back, I pray Jordan does too.
SAME!!
I feel like this video explains so many things that I have felt and thought to myself about, but never had the vocabulary to explain to anyone else. I am so grateful that this video exists and I can use their terms to help sort out my own mind on these things.
I feel the same way!
I don’t recall who said it, “understanding is overrated”, because our minds can never know absolute reality. Our challenge is to dismantle our minds (thoughts, beliefs, opinions). Perhaps starving is a better metaphor. We need to stop feeding our personas with other peoples views, opinions, theories and stories. Starving to death. Reborn in the spirit.
Jordan needs to yield his life to Christ and then he'll find peace and perhaps a measure of healing. Christ's Words to the Jewish scholar Nicodemus in John 3:7 also apply Jordan, "You must be born from above" by a direct intervention of the Holy Spirit who alone can bring us the inner regeneration we all need.
True - but Nicodemus was already a believer. It’s great the JP is asking and struggling with these very valid questions. At the end of the day, if he (by God’s grace) is convinced, I’m sure that droves will follow. He’s not the only one with these questions...he just has a gift for getting to the root of the most complex ones in a very digestible way so normies (🙋🏻♂️) can relate
@@VangelisFilms
Jesus shared the fulness of faith with Nicodemus. Nicodemus had a Hebrew faith but the revelation of Christ was shared with him by Christ who included birth from above with that.
Dr Peterson has an abundant supply of humility, which is so lacking in our time.
You confused Dr Peterson's brimming supply of self absorbance with humility
@Lee Grant Rock & roll
Listening about Jonathan Pageau's home being flooded in the beginning, I misread your comment as "abundant supply of humidity" :D
So hope that Jordan feels the Love of God washing over him
I love how every time Jordan interrupts Jonathan, Jonathan giggles. So much patience!