Thanks so much for this opportunity, Jordan. It was such a wonderful surprise to first of all see you in the public, and then engage with you during the Q&A. You are definitely part of what pushed me to keep my edge on for the whole discussion.
It is one of the tragic-comical paradoxes of perverted scientific fashion that it is necessary to legitimize a procedure in the eyes of men who unavoidably use it in their daily work. Perception is the first step in any process of gaining knowledge of outer reality … It is the sense organs, to which the physiological mechanisms belong, which, by complicated and non-conscious computations, abstract perceptions out of the chaos of innumerable sensory data. Lorenz (a quote from McGilchrist new book )
Mr. Pageau, I commend you for having the cajones to point out the fundamental flaw implied in deterministic impersonal "natural selection" in front of secular scholars. "Natural selection" is ultimately question-begging and following postmodernity, we're now entering a point in the discourse where people can start properly and humbly investigating this
This is some of your best work to date. It dawned at me that Christians and Jews are trying to reach the heavans and Muslims are reaching for Paradise in the earth.
Mr. Pageau and Mr. Peterson: I’ve followed you both on YT (Mr. Peterson on many platforms) for a number of years now. I’m heartened by how many congruencies are found and compelling discussions are taking place among great thinkers who are undaunted by social or peer pressures from derailing or silencing the discussion. To the contrary…the imposed divides are only serving to have brilliant thinkers coalesce….and your wisdom shared. Thank you both!
For 25 years, I was your average village atheist. I felt so proud of my cartoonish 'man-in-the-sky' arguments and small-minded use of the word "God." After reading and watching Jordan, Jonathan Pageau, Matthieu Pageau, Vervaeke, and Paul VanderKlay, I realized I had lived a life oriented towards God my entire life. I simply didn't know what our ancestors meant by that word. I now feel like a participant in life, no longer an observer. The world, beautiful and harsh, has a glow to it that I can only describe as God's grace. Thank you all for stepping out and speaking on God when it was so easily dismissed and shouted down. Thank you for keeping the candle flame alive and passing it as best as you can to the rest of us.
I'm an atheist who is thoroughly disgusted by the man in the sky atheists. Your run of the mill atheist is looking for a way out of any moral responsibility while free riding on the judeo christian ethic that has been the foundation of the greatest civilization in history. Most of the Christians I meet are sadly no different. Hiding their sin behind a forgiveness they take for granted and making no progress other than self justification. I don't see much difference between myself and seriously deeply committed people of faith. Only difference is I don't believe in God. The heavy lifting never ends for any honest man.
@@JohnDoe-iu5xi we are all hypocrites. Embracing one's own hypocrisy and not judging myself to be superior is an excellent and humbling step in the right direction. The heavy lifting never ends for an honest man. Accepting myself is crucial to accepting others. We are all fallen. What's rough on atheists is acknowledging that they didn't even fall from grace. We simply are born that way.. How can I accept their hypocrisy before I acknowledge my own and become aware of my own shortcoming that I judge them for? I can pretend to accept them. But I never really will until I see 'the stick in my own eye'. Here's a puzzle with a bunch of pieces missing, Mr Atheist. Bon chance.
Yes I toyed with the atheist stance for some time myself. It never felt comfortable because of the meaning problem. These guys are articulating a line of thought I cannot escape but in a way that drawers out a healthier spiritual me. Thanks for your comment.
@@ggusta1 I am curious what you make of our distinction drawn between agape and concepts like eros or philadelphia/phileo. Have you come across the ideas from Christians before? Does the concept of divine love in contrast to erotic love, familial love, self love, etc still communicate as a concept? I have been on both sides of the coin when it comes to Christianity. Personally I could understand a deeply rooted meaning in the use of agape but I could never find a truly equivalent representation in secular terms. It always bugged me that I couldn't find a way to talk about it rationally I am struggling to describe it for this very question
Having been dragged to church as a child to be told I was going to hell for my disbelief, I never thought there'd become a time where I voluntarily subject myself to lectures about religion. Thank you Jordan Peterson for helping me glean so much value from the biblical texts, for helping shape my understanding of the world and for pointing me in the direction of great people like Jonathan Pageau.
@@veilofreality What would you say this book talks about, why is it worth my time? Trying to see what to expect, roughly What does it say compared to Jonathan's work? Thanks in advance
@@jacobthomas1344 all Western (non Orthodox) forms are watered down, And yeah you are proving my point in that the people in the west with their "scientific logic" have distorted the OG Christianity and deviated from it. How do you know its not true, have you looked into it?
I’m a mother and focus on only increasing the understanding of the world for my children so they can remain true to their goodness already in them. This discussion is astounding and I hope to remain pursuant of virtue.
Johnathan and Mathieu have done so much to remove the scales from my eyes to the symbolism that surrounds me. It's beautiful to understand the world in such a way.
Jordan opened my eyes to religion and Christianity. Jonathan has helped open my heart to Christ. Symbolism has helped me commit to the biblical scriptures.
Christ was just a human magician who indeed preached some pretty good ideas about people but that's it. Get yourself together and enjoy life and its pleasures like licking specific parts of a girl's body etc
I've never understood how a symbol can have meaning to someone. I still don't. I have always been utterly disconnected from that type of thought process. The symbols aren't the mystery. The mystery is why people care about them.
@@toreschanke4086 nope, if you study the history of Odin, it’s just another name for Satan. Just like Zeus, the god of the “air” “sky”, controls lighting, wants to be god above all, ring any bells? Satan, the god of the air/sky, fell like lighting, wants to be above the mount of congregation and demands the worship of any and all. Satan is represented in pretty much every culture around the world with different names. Hence why Satan is known as the god of many names, the world worships Satan one way or another whether they realize it or not. If it’s not Yahweh, it’s Satan, there is no in between.
Yeah, me too! Find your ‘tribe’! I found mine in 3 friends who discuss these topics guite regularly. Oh how I LOVE those conversations: the seeking, the revelations, new purpose and meaning and the joy that life has brought us since..!!
Think harmonic spiritual quantum energy vibrations you can start with the book of Enoch than open your mind to the great creator of our universe why has no one ever found the missing link ? Maybe another entity changed are DNA ???
Hey jordan, big fan here from argentina. Your book help me go through the most difficult moment of my life, when my mother died, my family disappeared, I was left without work and without being able to eat. I spent 1 year and a half surviving as I could but something as simple as make your bed and tidy up your room, made great achievements and today I am in another place, much better and I know where I do not want to return! thaanks!
I'm learning more appreciation for the training my parents gave me, which included cleaning my room and making my bed! I know that I didn't think much of it at the time! hahaha...But it seems they provided my with a valuable advantage in life with their pestering discipline...Thanks, mom and dad! RIP
Hey! per chance, do you know of any Spanish-speaking public intellectuals that are as interesting as Jordan or Jonathan? Studying spanish and would love to listen to something like that, but in Spanish.
Not so long ago I believe I saw something about a new series of lectures that will start in January 22. Let’s hope it’s not just my wishful thinking ☺️
I've been trying to walk in the steps of Peterson and Pageau and revisit the Bible through a narrative perspective. I think it's one of the hardest things a person of orthodoxy can do, but I do express a deep appreciation for this approach.
Have u listened to Fr. Stephen de Young’s The Whole Counsel of God Podcast? He’s going over the whole Bible and explaining it book by book. I highly recommend
"But *the goal of our instruction is love* from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith." 1 Timothy 1:5 Don't compare man made dogma with the Word of God. They are two entirely different things.
If you’re orthodox Peterson’s biblical content can’t give you anything of value. We have a wellspring of deep writings of scripture from the Fathers and we have tons of saints and biblical theological writers who don’t turn the whole thing into Jungian archetypes and mere allegory.
God respects pattern and orderliness; division and separation. This is needed to understand not only the book of Genesis but also the entire Bible. Thanks for this affirmation, Jonathan. And thanks for sharing, Jordan.
I love that we have been given so many stories, everywhere we go -coming and going, God is constantly telling us, showing us that He is reaching out to us in everything but yet we are ourselves a story for others. Amazing
The "Divine darkness" Jonathan presented towards the end, sounds to me a lot like what is being experienced more and more when a person is approaching the non-permanent/ "first" Enlightenment, in the Eastern spirituality understanding of that state of being. As best as I understand it, of course. As I see it, it seems that approaching that state of the "first" Enlightenment, a person is more and more becoming: 1.) DARKNESS: - an increasingly empty vessel/ the ego is dissipating/ ever-increasing humility AND at the same time ego's decreasing presence is making way for 2.) DIVINE: - experiencing something I can best describe as increasingly higher amounts of Grace (more and more pure joy & peace inside, more loving "self-less" forgiveness & loving "self-less" judgement to others and yourself, in service of the Highest) The permanent/ "second" Enlightenment seems to me to be the ultimate destination of this process revealed by the non-permanent/ "first" Enlightenment. The permanent Enlightenment is the consequence of this process that has continued to its inevitable conclusion; its culmination in the highest point. I can barely understand what I wrote myself, but what I wrote resonates with me deeply. Hope it might be useful to anybody able to decipher it
Jonathan Pageau at his best! This is a great lecture! A big thank you to you Dr. Peterson, Mr. Pageau and the Montreal Jung society for making this great lecture available. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Me too! Here I am 10 months later listening on a Sunday night at 11 p.m. in September. Can't get enough of this. I'm hoping the more I listen to Jonathan, the more I'll be able to understand what he's talking about. I'm starting to "see" a little bit about what he's talking about so I remain hopeful.
Here I am, about a year larer, and this was still running thru my mind. So yesterday I spent the day listening again slowly and taking notes (play, pause, take notes) in an attempt to really grasp everthing in the lecture.
Any key takeaways? Anything you've integrated into your life since posting this comment? Thanks for sharing. I ask because I'm interested in bringing these perspectives into education and would love to better understand the role these ideas are playing in actual lives. 🙏@@germanfloze
Jonathan is so clear, cohesive and to the point - his ideas make sense and I have never heard someone word the fractal nature of the universe and incorporate so many elements like he did. From my opinion, his talk today was on the same scale as that of popular great speakers like Jordan Peterson, Terence McKenna and Alan Watts - and he does so without that mystical, proverbial, tangential method of relaying it which I personally enjoy. It was as clear as water, and the examples made perfect sense and concretized his ideas. As a person who believes that thought comes first - ofthe conceptual before physical - Jonathan felt like he was speaking something that I knew but didn't really "know", or could even understand without someone else more capable excavating it. Hearing a lecture on the fractal nature of the universe by a self-aware fractal is as ""as above, so below" as it gets. I have endless thanks for Jordan, but what Jonathan does with pattern recognition and reality as a whole is what I believe Jordan did for me with his psychology talks. The discussion at the end was 10/10. Thank you both.
@@pleroma49 mcKenna is a musing poetic rambler often babbling or circling around his points that often end up being pointless.... This Pageau Guy was absolutely mind blowing.... I have never heard anything like this
@@veilofreality yeah his voicenis entertaining, great might be a stretch. Great for entertainment... I don't find mcKenna that mesmerizing, just reminds me of growing up on gulf islands on the west coast and hearing acid burn outs who fancied themself as philosophers talk in circles without ever coming to a point that incites anything at all let alone worldy embodied action
Dr. Peterson , thank you. There’s something about you two being in the same room is just magic! I don’t know what it is. It really gets into a realm I can’t explain. I love it.
Whatever dimension Jung is in right now, I bet he's watching. And smiling. It's not every day that a Christian carpenter gives a lecture to millions on a clinical psychologist's RUclips channel. The Self is born from the meeting of opposites, Jung said. And what a meeting!
It’s very difficult to describe faith other than a personal relationship with Jesus, and that the Holy Spirit comes and resides inside that person having the effect of BECOMING more like Him as we follow and transform from one degree of glory to another. Thank you for this conversation, it’s so thrilling to listen to you and Jordan discuss the Christian faith and the psychological aspects of conversion. I fear he may miss his opportunity by constantly sitting on the fence and refusing to jump in, as it were. Great stuff!
Then again, the process of becoming like God through the Holy Spirit is the cosmic version of looking up to any kind of rolemodel. That's why we call rolemodels inspiring, coming from latin 'in' + 'spirare', spirare meaning "breath" and related to "spirit". The reason why it's so difficult to describe faith is because the West has collectively forgotten that the patterns in the bible are a cosmic version of our experience. It's not just psychological. Because the church is the body of the new Adam, God gathers us like clay and gives us spirit. But that's also the pattern for any kind of collective organization, be it a rock band, a school, or a company.
“Those who will not use their own brain, they are nothing more than meat on the table and beasts of burden by choice and consent.” I'd say before that veil falls it's a crime to see them anything else but a cattle. And it's a crime to feel sorry because of it.
The idea of sacrificing for a higher identity has been the number one factor in my husband and I having a successful and completely wonderful marriage and family.
This is brilliant. You very elegantly presented a lot of complex topics in Matthieu's book that can be very difficult to understand. Thank you Jonathan!
But tell me what he said that's useful to your life. Mostly all he did was a lot of blah blah blah that has no useful application in life. How do we apply this crap to our lives. Otherwise he should just shut up
TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 - Jordan Peterson Introduction 1:20 - David Andrea Introduction 4:14 - Jonathan Pageau preface lecture on symbolism 26:55 - Jonathan Pageau Genesis Analysis 01:12:03 - Jordan Peterson Questions & Dialogue with Jonathan Pageau 01:17:48 - Q&A with Jonathan Pageau 01:31:04 - Tammy Question
Really? Seems like a bunch of philosophical ju-jitsu in a futile attempt to rationalize the irrational and give some psudo-scientific value to a religious myth that has ultimately caused tremendous suffering in the world. The creation myths of a bunch of savage, middle eastern tribes that have been warring for 3,000 years, are only still relevant today because of their believers inability to adapt, change, and grow beyond them and because they have spawned the longest periods of war and violence in the history of the human race.
The way Jonathan presented this information was perfect, at least for me and the way my brain works. It's something I'll be contemplating while trying to fall asleep tonight (which will lead to a brain too active for sleep). I'm left feeling like there's so much more that needs to be said and explored which was the purpose. Thank you, Jordan, for presenting this on your channel.
Mr. Jordan I want to thank you for the growth and reality check that you give. You are a true blessing! To be blessed is great but to be a blessing to all you meet! You are a true HERO good sir. Thank you for your service to humanity! May God bless you deeply. Thank you!
Such a powerful, shattering conversation. Feeling the holly spirit's breath that was shared in a sacred moment. Such beauty to witness a conversation shared between Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Peterson. Thank you dearly. I am moved to the depths.
It makes me so happy to see this video has over 11k likes and 0 dislikes! Jordan Peterson and his friends are making the internet and especially RUclips comments a better place :)
I have truly enjoyed observing Jordan get closer and closer to God... Seeing this video and the fact that Jordan is putting his energy into putting this out i am happy to see this and it helps renew my faith. Thank you Jordan!
Just found this and wow, I thought I was a thinker but this guy has made me feel narrow minded. Fantastic listen and very beneficial for myself. Another huge bonus, I now found John’s channel and feel like I’m participating in an absolute gold rush!
> 10hour shift in the work truck tomorrow > New lecture for me to listen to in between deliveries > Thank you good sir, my time will now be slightly less wasted
Everyone with an ounce of psychedelic experience and/or interest in Jordans religious lectures (when will they finally continue?) will find this immensely valuable. Thank you so much.
@Kiwi Connoisseur I too would have never been receptive to these types of lectures if it wasn't for psychedelics. I was so deep in materialism that it would've been almost impossible to get me out of it without using psychedelics. I don't know if I would ever use it again but the experiences I had were definitely worth it.
First of all, I want to thank Jordan for his brilliant intellectual thought provoking interesting RUclipss. It is one thing for us to hear something, remember it and mimic it if valued but Jordan is planting the seed of knowledge and nurturing our own ability to improve ourselves through our own thoughts. While in most cases the majority of the population cannot see the forest for the trees being divorced from reality and truth, Jordan provides an avenue for in your face truth and reality enthusiastically encouraging us to challenge ourselves and run the race all the way to the finish line. This is only my second time viewing and listening to Jonathan Pageau, I agree we do live in a symbolic world. Symbols, numbers, words, names and places all have specific meaning and purpose. They are not for not. One can say that while time changes everything and everything changes with time, Almighty God and the heavens remain the same. Hebrews 13:8, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever.” In Genesis 1:14, God created lights in the sky to separate day and night.” In Luke 21:25, “There will be signs in the sun, moon and the stars.” The celestial sky is God’s heavenly calendar, a source of order, for planting crops, judgements, rewards, etc…, it is like the RAM in the computer, a modem connection from Heaven to earth. Almighty God is a sovereign orderly perfect Creator. He is all truth and the origin of love. God is the greatest creator, mathematician, scientist, philosopher, physician, artist, poet…, etc. God is beyond brilliant because the Bible aka Book of Instructions Before Leaving Earth is written is such a way that every generation aligns with each biblical story and characters for each particular generation. Almighty God is up in the heavens but always all around us through His word, the Holy Spirit, the beauty of nature and the beauty of us as humans and that which is within us through the Holy Spirit. Nothing He has done is coincidental and always by design. Therefore, every agent is by design and intertwined through patterns, habits, traditions and even biomimicry because man mimics the patterns and talents of animals/nature. Man was created on the 6th day (6 number of man) from the dust of the earth and we share the same elements of nature. The human body is mathematically and scientifically created from dirt. That’s the best form of recycling. God is great!!! As we grow and mature intellectually, we transform ourselves by renewing our hearts through the Holy Spirit, having a personal/ individual relationship with Almighty God, through thought process, behaviors and interactions with others and our surroundings. As Christians, we are from the seed of Almighty God’s family of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 1:16 “I have complete confidence in the gospel; it is God’s power to save all who believe, first the Jews and also the Gentiles.” As for the atheist, they probably follow the serpent seed. Luke 12:9, “But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God’s angels.” The world is comprised of two sides to everyone and everything. There has always been good and evil, right and wrong, order and chaos, love and hate and heaven and hell. So, yes, our seed is our identity and bearing fruit is our inheritance. Secondly, Carl Jung, like many others should be admired for brilliant contributions to humanity. However, no one is above Yeshua Hamashiach’s wisdom. And in all honesty we are all philosophers in our own right if we question and challenge ourselves in the existence of being and everything that surrounds us above and below. Also, if we question the knowledge of our conclusions, the solutions to problems by using methodical and systematical thinking as well as our attitudes towards life, attitude towards our fellow man and our surroundings it is part of our humanistic philosophy. Anyone who seeks answers to these questions of existence, knowledge and or solutions to these problems is a philosopher. In my opinion all answers can be found in Almighty God the Father and creator of all. True, the chair is more than just a chair; it’s a material object made of wood, fabric, leather etc…, it has a purpose for sitting, filling a decorative space and was made by a carpenter like Jesus Christ. We ourselves are more than just one thing with great value and purpose. The glass of water is more than just a glass of water. Our acknowledgement of the value of the substance in the glass is one’s individual responsibility, failure and or reward. We ourselves are created in Almighty God’s image and as the water in the glass holds value, we have immeasurable value. Failure to realize our value and potential is a great devastation and we deny our inheritance. On Aristotle’s question of nature he uses the example of the statue asking four questions with four events or causes: what components make up the statue? (Bronze; the material event/cause) what is it ( a statue; the formal event/cause) what brought into existence (a sculptor; the efficient event/cause) and what was its purpose ( decorative; the final event/cause). Since I only had a few minutes to view this RUclips I can’t comment further but would like to conclude with a quote from Sabina Spielrein -“As an example, let us examine a previously differentiated experience: a sunny day in spring that endless generations before us have often enjoyed. To reproduce the experience, we must consciously differentiate the shapes of the trees, grass, and sky, conforming to the current content of consciousness. We no longer are concerned merely with a spring day, but with our own special, personally colored spring day. On the other hand, when this differentiated product enters another individual’s psyche, a re-transformation occurs. Conscious processing by another involves his personal impressions of a spring day. In addition, to conscious processing, the image falls into an unconscious ‘working through’, moving the current personal impression down to the ‘Mothers’ and dissolving it. In the unconscious, we may find the spring day broken down into its components, the sun, the heavens, and plants that are organized (or perhaps more correctly, molded) according to mythological forms known to us from folk psychology. In each declaration of a thought, which is a portrait of an image, we establish a generalization in which words are symbols, serving to mold universally human and universally comprehensible ideas around the personal, i.e., the impressions are depersonalized.” Thank you, Jonathan for covering an interesting topic. Almighty God bless you and your family. ✝️
Every knee shall bow in the end. I praise Yah that this isn't just symbolic for me the word is living and exudes life and everything needed to foster correct existence.. I will try my best to walk out my faith until my last breath.
Absolutely brilliant explanation of the fractal pattern in Creation. It’s all patterns within patterns, and fields within fields. I guess you could say that there is no becoming without being, and there is no being without becoming.
Hows the bible going for you? I started on jan 5 and its jan 16 right now. Im at genesis 32. This has been interesting reading, since i was a hardcore atheist for almost 10 years.
@@oscargarcia2011 well i'm doing some pre bible reading so i've been diving into the history of religious ideas by m. eliade and am half way through the first vol... i'm thinking if I should finish the other 2 volumes and then get into the bible or just start after this first volume.. we'll see where my interests takes me. either way i'm excited to get into it... last "year" I also read st ephrem's hymns on paradise as well as the life of moses by st gregory of nyssa which also fuelled my interests in the bible. how's it going for you?
I would recommend “Bible in A Year” podcast by Fr. Mike Smytz. It’s so wonderful and there are people around the world listening in. I think it is very hard to make sense of some of the Bible so BIAY breaks it down and explains. God bless you!
Paul VanderKlay got an indirect shout out! I really enjoyed his conversation with Benjamin Boyce and Pageau earlier this year (on Benjamin Boyce's podcast)
Yes! That was a great conversation. I will always remember Jonathan saying that “we are at the end of something, and the beginning of something, but we don’t know what yet...” (paraphrasing). And then COVID hits....totalitarianism rears up on it’s hind legs, and we are now thrust into whatever the heck this interpretation of reality is!
Q people know what you suggest and just how radical this thought is. The unseen is constantly around us with open doors. “Whatsoever a man thinketh in his heart SO IS HE.” I love watching both of these men think. It makes me want to cry as you see the gears moving. I sense honesty in observation. Thank you gentlemen. You have given my “hope” a refreshing glass of water.
God bless you! Jesus has always loved us all from the beginning.. time is getting close, everyone is making sense of what is to come, His return 😇🕊 I’ve been watching this guy back when I was into New Age before I was saved This has been happening to a lot of channels I follow like Mudfossil university Praise God!!!
Thank you Dr. Peterson this will take my lifetime to understand half of it, you probably think I’m crazy but I also still can’t grasp that you have being instrument on discerning the word of God, And now you have MrJonathan P. Who is the complement of your illumination, I am in awe. Thank you
Jonathan is great, also order his graphic novel “Gods dog” it’s crowd funded but has already reached multiple goals so you’ll get your copy for sure now.
What a blessing Jonathan is to this world. Been so impacted by Jordan petersons work for awhile now but i’m also glad he led me to Jonathan cuz wow these two are both so full of knowledge and perspective and as a Christian I love seeing Jonathan pushing Jordan’s views nd challenging him in the respectful way he does it’s just so cool i love and respect these two so much for everything they’ve done, continue to do and will do for the time being. God bless you all
This was truly excellent. Watching this group stretch each other is a true privilege. I do attempt to glean one practical application from such experiences, and here I have coined a new phrase. Henceforth, when I attempt to assist someone who is attempting to amass success from inappropriate potential I will recommend to them to stop "eating rocks!"
I have nothing to share other than to express my profound gratitude the magnitude and the the transforming lectures contained herein ,,,,,the reality of Truths,,,,the symboic world and much more Participation is key factor in making meaningful decisions the brings true changes in manifestation Peace profound
Jordan, I really appreciate the intelligence and independent thought of Jonathan. He deserves to be in similar circles as yourself. I had a hard time connecting to Jonathan in this talk, and I think part of it is he may not be actively engaging the audience in the way that you have stated that you do. I wish the best for Jonathan, I think people need to hear his thoughts, and I hope he developed his presentation skills to the level of his skillful thought. This is not a slight against Jonathan, his thinking is in the exceptional category and I think he is a good speaker. I really am rooting for him to become all that he can be.
Trust me that is a thing😀 people at first can’t really define Jonathan’s way of communicating. There are tons of people who got into his work that he’s interviewed or has been interviewed said about it but after a while of watching more of his videos IT CLICKS! Lightbulb goes off! Trust me if you like Jordan’s work, keep watching Jonathan’s videos. They’re full of wisdom and intuition! Also, what did u have a hard time connecting together in this talk?
@@CarlosVargas-jz8gl Thanks for the response, I had a hard time connecting with Jonathan in the lecture portion. When he was answering questions, both from Jordan and others it was better. I have seen an earlier video of him having a conversation with Jordan that I didn't have a problem with. I can't quite pin it down, like was it that he didn't seem to be looking at us through the camera? I'm not sure, I just thought Jordan might be able to see what I am seeing and have some better answers than I would have for Jonathan.
@@briankucich9017 It could be the materialistic framework most of us have been conditioned with that makes Jonathan’s explanations difficult to chew on. Jordan does help distill them a bit.
“Meaning comes down from above” this also can relate to the head/brain being on TOP of the body and trying to interpret and control, subdue, the lower parts of the body.
The reality of creation as REAL and that not a theory - yet not something that makes science irrelevant either - this hits you like a ton of bricks when life breaks you and the stuff you were exposed to in the Bible appears physically in a way that I can’t believe. Science and god can coexist. End the fight. Love each other and look for light in people and everywhere. The field is literally making the ability see this hierarchy in 3D - the sky and earth planes are illuminated and open people can see souls above and around in energetic moments. We are connected tot this unified field because we are of this field and made from the water why’d we drink. Ritual is spiritual awareness. When the connectivity is removed, as it has been by the age of AI and most obviously during the pandemic with all the lockdowns etc. - when it is removed and our energies are separated we can’t literally survive . Whoa I just got a crazy light in my eye and as he drank the water was picking mine up. THIS is what you will notice. Something about the seeking and the like minds even over a phone with a person - the fact that’s he’s doing and speaking of the things I am feeling causes a literal magnet. My light is turned on more powerfully instantaneously. Sorry I got a little nutty here but I am sometimes overwhelmed by this path. The reality is creation loved us and desires is all faiths for us to love each other, have fun with each other and above all else honor our lives as children loved by that creation by never falling into fear. Person who starts to awake and becomes lit with this active energy will change something like 5,000 (check this in Wayne Dyer’s material) just be being in a place. I am serious.
Excellent. This truth is literally stamped into the human body: we are the only species on earth whose natural posture is to walk upright, with the head (the center of intelligence, the part of us that understands and grasps meaning, etc) above and the more "earthy," visceral parts of us below.
It was my epiphany from this is that the perfection of the Heavenly Father is to raise children through experience that mind themselves, that choose to do the right thing from their own will, not solely from force, compulsion, or necessity but through love.
'Darwin bringing back Plato" ... this was a brilliant discussion. Natural selection acts as an unseen authority, an unseen telos. Natural selection appears to be the Platonic "Good". Darwin identified a biological pattern that points to metaphysical reality. IMO, a Pageau and Peterson dialog is heaven at work. I love these guys. A Platonic love of course :)
@@keithhunt5328 It depends on your level of metaphysics. Some, not all, biologist operate at the physical and material level. Even they assume a hierarchy of process, a direction in process. Biologist, being human, operate in a hierarchy. We are all platonic and we dont even know it.
Right right. Natural selection is the natural default mode. It's fractal, it grows, it kills or creates. Humanity itself through intellect is the "Platonic good" because it is better than the default. It is above the fractals, the natural processes, and the irony is sometimes nature doing a better job than humanity itself. Nature can generate goods and bads. Humanity can create good or bad. But the intellect in humanity can great much greatness or civilization.
@@bx3556 Agree. I think the questions that are tricky to answer are the what that drives; the direction of nature; why does nature "form" hierarchies. Our own language seems to get caught up in formal and final causation. We cant escape. Physicalism has an appeal but my bias is towards a higher metaphysics ... I believe in top down and bottom up reality. It just seems more comprehensive.
@@keithhunt5328 Point taken Keith ... but science has always had a direction. In my experience Maxwell's equations, the periodic table, and quantum physics demonstrates a "goal" or telos. We are always trying to unify and come to a totalizing law of some kind. Darwin thesis has been tweaked and adapted sine his death. We cant escape formal and final causation. I believe Platonism is still relevant now as it was 2500 years ago because there are objective "things" out there to be discovered.. I believe Darwin was on the right track, and he in no way contradicted classical theism but he did critique contemporary superstition and shallow theism. IMO, we are embedded in telos, and formal cause but we are blind to them because we are "in" them. What is your take on the "goal" of science?
It's important to have this dialogue with consciousness; and share the mystery of being with those of us not yet realizing the potential for which we exist, which is the very meaning and purpose of the experience.
If you're just starting, his conversations with EMP are pretty good places to start. Any ones with the agnostics really since he has to kind of dumb it down.
Perfect~ I've been re-watching the Biblical Series for a 3rd time. Pageau's patterning explanation reminded me of Homeric writings, Kabbalah, Peterson's levels of resolution, and Australian First Nations' pattern thinking~ perennial philosophy
@Kiwi Connoisseur I disagree~ reminds me of Pharisees berating Jesus for his 'new interpretation', or Copernicus and Galileo receiving backlash from religious authorities for suggesting something other than 'what is already known', or ...tyranny...basically, the opposite of 'the wind not blowing upon the waters'; a stagnate pool does not enable Creation (another perennial philosophy ~;-) Patterns!
Dr. Peterson, Thank You for all this content and sharing your work with us, audience though from afar, equally eager and engaged. Best Regards from Poland.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks so much for this opportunity, Jordan. It was such a wonderful surprise to first of all see you in the public, and then engage with you during the Q&A. You are definitely part of what pushed me to keep my edge on for the whole discussion.
It is one of the tragic-comical paradoxes of perverted scientific fashion that it is necessary to legitimize a procedure in the eyes of men who unavoidably use it in their daily work. Perception is the first step in any process of gaining knowledge of outer reality … It is the sense organs, to which the physiological mechanisms belong, which, by complicated and non-conscious computations, abstract perceptions out of the chaos of innumerable sensory data.
Lorenz (a quote from McGilchrist new book )
Mr. Pageau, I commend you for having the cajones to point out the fundamental flaw implied in deterministic impersonal "natural selection" in front of secular scholars. "Natural selection" is ultimately question-begging and following postmodernity, we're now entering a point in the discourse where people can start properly and humbly investigating this
This is some of your best work to date. It dawned at me that Christians and Jews are trying to reach the heavans and Muslims are reaching for Paradise in the earth.
Mr. Pageau and Mr. Peterson: I’ve followed you both on YT (Mr. Peterson on many platforms) for a number of years now. I’m heartened by how many congruencies are found and compelling discussions are taking place among great thinkers who are undaunted by social or peer pressures from derailing or silencing the discussion. To the contrary…the imposed divides are only serving to have brilliant thinkers coalesce….and your wisdom shared. Thank you both!
@@panokostouros7609 Is there any material you can share for one to read up on this view?
For 25 years, I was your average village atheist. I felt so proud of my cartoonish 'man-in-the-sky' arguments and small-minded use of the word "God." After reading and watching Jordan, Jonathan Pageau, Matthieu Pageau, Vervaeke, and Paul VanderKlay, I realized I had lived a life oriented towards God my entire life. I simply didn't know what our ancestors meant by that word. I now feel like a participant in life, no longer an observer. The world, beautiful and harsh, has a glow to it that I can only describe as God's grace.
Thank you all for stepping out and speaking on God when it was so easily dismissed and shouted down. Thank you for keeping the candle flame alive and passing it as best as you can to the rest of us.
I'm an atheist who is thoroughly disgusted by the man in the sky atheists. Your run of the mill atheist is looking for a way out of any moral responsibility while free riding on the judeo christian ethic that has been the foundation of the greatest civilization in history.
Most of the Christians I meet are sadly no different. Hiding their sin behind a forgiveness they take for granted and making no progress other than self justification.
I don't see much difference between myself and seriously deeply committed people of faith. Only difference is I don't believe in God.
The heavy lifting never ends for any honest man.
I love to hear/see the thoughts of others.
I feel like we’ve been missing out on simply engaging with others in todays society.
@@JohnDoe-iu5xi we are all hypocrites. Embracing one's own hypocrisy and not judging myself to be superior is an excellent and humbling step in the right direction. The heavy lifting never ends for an honest man.
Accepting myself is crucial to accepting others. We are all fallen.
What's rough on atheists is acknowledging that they didn't even fall from grace. We simply are born that way.. How can I accept their hypocrisy before I acknowledge my own and become aware of my own shortcoming that I judge them for? I can pretend to accept them. But I never really will until I see 'the stick in my own eye'.
Here's a puzzle with a bunch of pieces missing, Mr Atheist. Bon chance.
Yes I toyed with the atheist stance for some time myself. It never felt comfortable because of the meaning problem. These guys are articulating a line of thought I cannot escape but in a way that drawers out a healthier spiritual me.
Thanks for your comment.
@@ggusta1 I am curious what you make of our distinction drawn between agape and concepts like eros or philadelphia/phileo. Have you come across the ideas from Christians before?
Does the concept of divine love in contrast to erotic love, familial love, self love, etc still communicate as a concept? I have been on both sides of the coin when it comes to Christianity. Personally I could understand a deeply rooted meaning in the use of agape but I could never find a truly equivalent representation in secular terms. It always bugged me that I couldn't find a way to talk about it rationally
I am struggling to describe it for this very question
Having been dragged to church as a child to be told I was going to hell for my disbelief, I never thought there'd become a time where I voluntarily subject myself to lectures about religion. Thank you Jordan Peterson for helping me glean so much value from the biblical texts, for helping shape my understanding of the world and for pointing me in the direction of great people like Jonathan Pageau.
the western form of Christianity is a watered down deviation to put it mildly.
@@veilofreality Thanks for the recommendation. All the best to you 👍
@@veilofreality What would you say this book talks about, why is it worth my time? Trying to see what to expect, roughly
What does it say compared to Jonathan's work?
Thanks in advance
What's your opinion on the bible?
@@jacobthomas1344 all Western (non Orthodox) forms are watered down, And yeah you are proving my point in that the people in the west with their "scientific logic" have distorted the OG Christianity and deviated from it. How do you know its not true, have you looked into it?
I’m a mother and focus on only increasing the understanding of the world for my children so they can remain true to their goodness already in them. This discussion is astounding and I hope to remain pursuant of virtue.
Universal Laws of Cymatics
Sound Frequency Vibration
Balance Symmetry Structure
But Mostly
Find the humor
Find the Joy
Wow! 🙌 You will 🙏
Hope is not enough! You must believe!!!!
Start from the basics
food and soil
@@flojotube precisely
We each perceive with individual perspectives
Be open minded and let your children express their views
Johnathan and Mathieu have done so much to remove the scales from my eyes to the symbolism that surrounds me. It's beautiful to understand the world in such a way.
So, like the "Z" symbolism on Russian tanks do you mean??
@@tonyburton419 what?
This Channel becomes more and interesting. I am indeed thankful for this change. Hanne in Denmark living on a small Island called Fejoe
I admire you strong minded Guys. Hanne in Denmark living on a small Island called Fejoe
@@tourist1313 Symbolism. It's beautiful to understand the Ukrainian hell hole in such a way.
I see the world differently because of Jonathan.
I see myself differently because of Jordan.
Same
@@Rut53 me too
I see the world differently after fake news media got exposed
Its not easy ringo, ciao
65 year old Cradle Orthodox, from my parents, grandparents. So happy you've posted this, Dr. Peterson. Thank you. Many years of health to you.
Amen 🙏
Jordan opened my eyes to religion and Christianity. Jonathan has helped open my heart to Christ. Symbolism has helped me commit to the biblical scriptures.
It's actually Odin..
Christ was just a human magician who indeed preached some pretty good ideas about people but that's it. Get yourself together and enjoy life and its pleasures like licking specific parts of a girl's body etc
I've never understood how a symbol can have meaning to someone. I still don't. I have always been utterly disconnected from that type of thought process. The symbols aren't the mystery. The mystery is why people care about them.
@@HkLY45 it's a language, people/organisations/(entities?) are communicating through this language in plain sight.
@@toreschanke4086 nope, if you study the history of Odin, it’s just another name for Satan. Just like Zeus, the god of the “air” “sky”, controls lighting, wants to be god above all, ring any bells? Satan, the god of the air/sky, fell like lighting, wants to be above the mount of congregation and demands the worship of any and all. Satan is represented in pretty much every culture around the world with different names. Hence why Satan is known as the god of many names, the world worships Satan one way or another whether they realize it or not. If it’s not Yahweh, it’s Satan, there is no in between.
I would die happy if I could have conversations like this on the regular
Yeah, me too!
Find your ‘tribe’!
I found mine in 3 friends who discuss these topics guite regularly. Oh how I LOVE those conversations: the seeking, the revelations, new purpose and meaning and the joy that life has brought us since..!!
God is always open to discussion ❤️🙏🏼
If I were a rich man
Dude you need to go find a good friend. We're out man.
Proverbs 18:24
A man who has friends must himself be friendly, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
I literally sent this to all my students (I teach catholic high school theology) and said "this is everything I have been trying to teach. Watch this"
How do you usually go about trying to teach these concepts? Do you rely on Aquinas?
@@TheAngelicDoctor . I hope so. Or at least Aristotle.
What was their response?
Think harmonic spiritual quantum energy vibrations you can start with the book of Enoch than open your mind to the great creator of our universe why has no one ever found the missing link ? Maybe another entity changed are DNA ???
Lucifer is Catholic's God. Please do your research. Only the higher catholics know this. The lower Catholics are deceived.
Jonathan is such a blessing, glad to see him on this channel
@@jtjones4081 Rabbis existed before Christ showed up.
@@Cyrus_II to add to that the rabbis still have in their Torah the prophecy and archetype of a messiah they just reject Jesus is the messiah.
Hey jordan, big fan here from argentina. Your book help me go through the most difficult moment of my life, when my mother died, my family disappeared, I was left without work and without being able to eat. I spent 1 year and a half surviving as I could but something as simple as make your bed and tidy up your room, made great achievements and today I am in another place, much better and I know where I do not want to return!
thaanks!
I'm learning more appreciation for the training my parents gave me, which included cleaning my room and making my bed! I know that I didn't think much of it at the time! hahaha...But it seems they provided my with a valuable advantage in life with their pestering discipline...Thanks, mom and dad! RIP
@@StoneShards 💜💓 to our loved ones,
Hey! per chance, do you know of any Spanish-speaking public intellectuals that are as interesting as Jordan or Jonathan? Studying spanish and would love to listen to something like that, but in Spanish.
@@SorryBeeinLate there is no one in spanish with that IQ xD
My whole family always prays for you. Thank you for what you do, it really matters and it changes lives. Love you Jordan
@Ajita Corp You've become nothing but a giant in your own mind.
As a mathematician, I had just identified creation as fractals. Perfect timing to hear this.
Jonathan is absolutely amazing, I stil can’t believe we can watch this for free. Thank you so much!!
Jordan, I really hope you can get back into doing more of your biblical series. I remember you said that was something you wanted as well.
Like the new testament? Eagerly awaiting that 🤗
in an interview three years ago, he said he wants to do the entire bible
@@amirhossein2057 Yes, and when he got back from being sick last year he said that continuing was one of his goals.
Make an explanation series on ehat he doesn't understand? No thanks
Not so long ago I believe I saw something about a new series of lectures that will start in January 22. Let’s hope it’s not just my wishful thinking ☺️
Really cool to see Pageau featured here. Hopefully this will give him, his work and his RUclips channel more exposure
Please, someone do me a great favor. put the link of his channel (Pageanu) here as a reminder to me. Thanks a lot.
Search ‘The Symbolic World’
That's how Pageau got a lot more exposure in the first place. Peterson had discussion with him a few years back. Check it out.
@@jtjones4081 rambling
I've been trying to walk in the steps of Peterson and Pageau and revisit the Bible through a narrative perspective. I think it's one of the hardest things a person of orthodoxy can do, but I do express a deep appreciation for this approach.
Have u listened to Fr. Stephen de Young’s The Whole Counsel of God Podcast? He’s going over the whole Bible and explaining it book by book. I highly recommend
@@CarlosVargas-jz8gl love it when Jonathan and the podFrs get together. Hopefully they do another one soon.
@@CarlosVargas-jz8gl Something else to go in the backlog.
"But *the goal of our instruction is love* from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith." 1 Timothy 1:5
Don't compare man made dogma with the Word of God. They are two entirely different things.
If you’re orthodox Peterson’s biblical content can’t give you anything of value. We have a wellspring of deep writings of scripture from the Fathers and we have tons of saints and biblical theological writers who don’t turn the whole thing into Jungian archetypes and mere allegory.
God respects pattern and orderliness; division and separation. This is needed to understand not only the book of Genesis but also the entire Bible. Thanks for this affirmation, Jonathan. And thanks for sharing, Jordan.
I love that we have been given so many stories, everywhere we go -coming and going, God is constantly telling us, showing us that He is reaching out to us in everything but yet we are ourselves a story for others. Amazing
🙏 May the sacred keep you safe, Dr Peterson. Thanks for everything!
Pageau is an absolutely brilliant thinker.
The "Divine darkness" Jonathan presented towards the end, sounds to me a lot like what is being experienced more and more when a person is approaching the non-permanent/ "first" Enlightenment, in the Eastern spirituality understanding of that state of being. As best as I understand it, of course.
As I see it, it seems that approaching that state of the "first" Enlightenment, a person is more and more becoming:
1.) DARKNESS:
- an increasingly empty vessel/ the ego is dissipating/ ever-increasing humility AND at the same time ego's decreasing presence is making way for
2.) DIVINE:
- experiencing something I can best describe as increasingly higher amounts of Grace (more and more pure joy & peace inside, more loving "self-less" forgiveness & loving "self-less" judgement to others and yourself, in service of the Highest)
The permanent/ "second" Enlightenment seems to me to be the ultimate destination of this process revealed by the non-permanent/ "first" Enlightenment. The permanent Enlightenment is the consequence of this process that has continued to its inevitable conclusion; its culmination in the highest point.
I can barely understand what I wrote myself, but what I wrote resonates with me deeply.
Hope it might be useful to anybody able to decipher it
Jonathan Pageau at his best! This is a great lecture!
A big thank you to you Dr. Peterson, Mr. Pageau and the Montreal Jung society for making this great lecture available.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
A fresh fountain quenching my thirsty soul. Thank you all.
I got to the end of this video at 1am, this kept me awake as if I was watching an action movie! Didn't want it to end. Thanks for sharing!
What did you learn?
Me too! Here I am 10 months later listening on a Sunday night at 11 p.m. in September. Can't get enough of this. I'm hoping the more I listen to Jonathan, the more I'll be able to understand what he's talking about. I'm starting to "see" a little bit about what he's talking about so I remain hopeful.
Here I am, about a year larer, and this was still running thru my mind. So yesterday I spent the day listening again slowly and taking notes (play, pause, take notes) in an attempt to really grasp everthing in the lecture.
1:49:12
Any key takeaways? Anything you've integrated into your life since posting this comment? Thanks for sharing. I ask because I'm interested in bringing these perspectives into education and would love to better understand the role these ideas are playing in actual lives. 🙏@@germanfloze
This was absolutely wonderful.
This the the best Pageau that I’ve heard. Thank you, all. Thanks for posting it, Dr. Peterson.
Jonathan is so clear, cohesive and to the point - his ideas make sense and I have never heard someone word the fractal nature of the universe and incorporate so many elements like he did. From my opinion, his talk today was on the same scale as that of popular great speakers like Jordan Peterson, Terence McKenna and Alan Watts - and he does so without that mystical, proverbial, tangential method of relaying it which I personally enjoy. It was as clear as water, and the examples made perfect sense and concretized his ideas. As a person who believes that thought comes first - ofthe conceptual before physical - Jonathan felt like he was speaking something that I knew but didn't really "know", or could even understand without someone else more capable excavating it. Hearing a lecture on the fractal nature of the universe by a self-aware fractal is as ""as above, so below" as it gets.
I have endless thanks for Jordan, but what Jonathan does with pattern recognition and reality as a whole is what I believe Jordan did for me with his psychology talks. The discussion at the end was 10/10. Thank you both.
Totally agree. His methodology for explanation is if it wouldn't mean anything to a secular atheist then he is not grounding it enough.
They say orthodoxy is like having a cheat sheet to life.
McKenna!
@@pleroma49 mcKenna is a musing poetic rambler often babbling or circling around his points that often end up being pointless.... This Pageau Guy was absolutely mind blowing.... I have never heard anything like this
@@veilofreality yeah his voicenis entertaining, great might be a stretch. Great for entertainment... I don't find mcKenna that mesmerizing, just reminds me of growing up on gulf islands on the west coast and hearing acid burn outs who fancied themself as philosophers talk in circles without ever coming to a point that incites anything at all let alone worldy embodied action
Sitting here with tears of joy, euphoria and excitement welling up in my eyes... praise God for this man. 🙏
Dr. Peterson , thank you. There’s something about you two being in the same room is just magic! I don’t know what it is. It really gets into a realm I can’t explain. I love it.
If only Jordan could learn about the Orthodox Church with the spirituality that hides inside, he will be overwhelmed. Amen.
Whatever dimension Jung is in right now, I bet he's watching. And smiling. It's not every day that a Christian carpenter gives a lecture to millions on a clinical psychologist's RUclips channel. The Self is born from the meeting of opposites, Jung said. And what a meeting!
@@marcher8023 He'd probably annoy the devil by trying to redeem him. He might even end up doing it. That's one way to defeat evil.
@@marcher8023 “You may be certain that as long as someone is in hell, Christ will remain there with him.” ~ St. Sophrony of Essex
I like Petersons lectures on Shamanism he should probably just eat some mushrooms or peyote himself and have a vision quest.
Thanks to the mocking lil'blonde one that one whom you call Jung, still has one more run left before going back to whatever place calls home may be.
@Isaac Jared going to hell is separating yourself from God, just because he loves us infinitely. Doesn’t mean we won’t exact perfect justice.
Doc Peterson is good to see that your doing better. God bless you and your family.
I was always doing good, but I pretended to struggle to make fools think they are more capable
ok if I weren't doing well at least I faced my fears. whatever
Brilliant 🇿🇦 Our FATHER in Heaven must be so delighted to hear this 🤗❤️
I wanna thank Jonathan and Jordan for helping me find peace about 2 months ago.
It’s very difficult to describe faith other than a personal relationship with Jesus, and that the Holy Spirit comes and resides inside that person having the effect of BECOMING more like Him as we follow and transform from one degree of glory to another. Thank you for this conversation, it’s so thrilling to listen to you and Jordan discuss the Christian faith and the psychological aspects of conversion. I fear he may miss his opportunity by constantly sitting on the fence and refusing to jump in, as it were. Great stuff!
Then again, the process of becoming like God through the Holy Spirit is the cosmic version of looking up to any kind of rolemodel. That's why we call rolemodels inspiring, coming from latin 'in' + 'spirare', spirare meaning "breath" and related to "spirit". The reason why it's so difficult to describe faith is because the West has collectively forgotten that the patterns in the bible are a cosmic version of our experience. It's not just psychological.
Because the church is the body of the new Adam, God gathers us like clay and gives us spirit. But that's also the pattern for any kind of collective organization, be it a rock band, a school, or a company.
"When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of men." - Manly P. Hall
“Those who will not use their own brain, they are nothing more than meat on the table and beasts of burden by choice and consent.”
I'd say before that veil falls it's a crime to see them anything else but a cattle. And it's a crime to feel sorry because of it.
@@spraitukas we should have no space in our hearts for such pride and disdain
The idea of sacrificing for a higher identity has been the number one factor in my husband and I having a successful and completely wonderful marriage and family.
Family Lady, would you be willing to discuss this on an episode of my podcast?
This is brilliant. You very elegantly presented a lot of complex topics in Matthieu's book that can be very difficult to understand. Thank you Jonathan!
Appreciate the work you’re doing on your channel going through Matthieu’s book.
Yes! Your channel is truly awesome.
Love you and your channel bro, blessing to see you here ❤️🔥 God bless ✝️
But tell me what he said that's useful to your life. Mostly all he did was a lot of blah blah blah that has no useful application in life.
How do we apply this crap to our lives. Otherwise he should just shut up
@@bertwesler1181 cool
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Jordan Peterson Introduction
1:20 - David Andrea Introduction
4:14 - Jonathan Pageau preface lecture on symbolism
26:55 - Jonathan Pageau Genesis Analysis
01:12:03 - Jordan Peterson Questions & Dialogue with Jonathan Pageau
01:17:48 - Q&A with Jonathan Pageau
01:31:04 - Tammy Question
This is the single most meaningful video I have ever had the pleasure of listening to. A brilliant display by Jonathan Pageau!
It goes way deeper bruh
This is the most clear interpretation i've ever seen of genesis. Thanks so much.
Really? Seems like a bunch of philosophical ju-jitsu in a futile attempt to rationalize the irrational and give some psudo-scientific value to a religious myth that has ultimately caused tremendous suffering in the world. The creation myths of a bunch of savage, middle eastern tribes that have been warring for 3,000 years, are only still relevant today because of their believers inability to adapt, change, and grow beyond them and because they have spawned the longest periods of war and violence in the history of the human race.
@Kiwi Connoisseur Amusing attempt...Hail Satan.
@Kiwi Connoisseur @Hehe Hehe is just a troll and @Hehe Hehe knows they themselves is only a troll.
"As above, so below". A very important and profound concept.
Next time try, “on earth as it is in heaven”
The heroes journey is a fractal reailty of the yearly cycle of the sun, the sun is a fractal reality of the Logos.
As within so without
@Yam Antaka I like innerstand rather than understand . Lol
@Yam Antaka Wh0leness tribe . Much love and gratitude.
The way Jonathan presented this information was perfect, at least for me and the way my brain works. It's something I'll be contemplating while trying to fall asleep tonight (which will lead to a brain too active for sleep). I'm left feeling like there's so much more that needs to be said and explored which was the purpose. Thank you, Jordan, for presenting this on your channel.
Don't forget to visit Jonathan's channel and join us in the Symbolic World facebook group!
I also can't sleep
If you seek God with all your heart, you *will* find Him. Humility is central and love is our highest purpose.
Mr. Jordan I want to thank you for the growth and reality check that you give. You are a true blessing! To be blessed is great but to be a blessing to all you meet! You are a true HERO good sir. Thank you for your service to humanity!
May God bless you deeply. Thank you!
Such a powerful, shattering conversation. Feeling the holly spirit's breath that was shared in a sacred moment. Such beauty to witness a conversation shared between Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Peterson. Thank you dearly. I am moved to the depths.
It makes me so happy to see this video has over 11k likes and 0 dislikes!
Jordan Peterson and his friends are making the internet and especially RUclips comments a better place :)
I have truly enjoyed observing Jordan get closer and closer to God...
Seeing this video and the fact that Jordan is putting his energy into putting this out i am happy to see this and it helps renew my faith. Thank you Jordan!
he is a living testimony
Just found this and wow, I thought I was a thinker but this guy has made me feel narrow minded. Fantastic listen and very beneficial for myself. Another huge bonus, I now found John’s channel and feel like I’m participating in an absolute gold rush!
Don't follow the alchemists in that gold rush... metallurgy and banking turned crazy already. God bless
I have never heard such 🐂 sh$t in my life. Talk about a bunch of words meaning absolutely nothing
Thank you for introducing this humble, intelligent and wise artist. You guys are changing the world by being true and genuine.
I watched this for the first 5 minutes and didn't think much of Pageau. I kept watching. Now I realise. He is a genius.
> 10hour shift in the work truck tomorrow
> New lecture for me to listen to in between deliveries
> Thank you good sir, my time will now be slightly less wasted
Everyone with an ounce of psychedelic experience and/or interest in Jordans religious lectures (when will they finally continue?) will find this immensely valuable.
Thank you so much.
Be careful of unearned wisdom…
@Kiwi Connoisseur I too would have never been receptive to these types of lectures if it wasn't for psychedelics. I was so deep in materialism that it would've been almost impossible to get me out of it without using psychedelics. I don't know if I would ever use it again but the experiences I had were definitely worth it.
@@peebone000 I spot a Parrot
@@Pinedal lmfaooooooo chill 🤫 too funny tho 🤣
@Kiwi Connoisseur pray to my Levantine carpenter or I reeeee lol
First of all, I want to thank Jordan for his brilliant intellectual thought provoking interesting RUclipss. It is one thing for us to hear something, remember it and mimic it if valued but Jordan is planting the seed of knowledge and nurturing our own ability to improve ourselves through our own thoughts. While in most cases the majority of the population cannot see the forest for the trees being divorced from reality and truth, Jordan provides an avenue for in your face truth and reality enthusiastically encouraging us to challenge ourselves and run the race all the way to the finish line. This is only my second time viewing and listening to Jonathan Pageau, I agree we do live in a symbolic world. Symbols, numbers, words, names and places all have specific meaning and purpose. They are not for not. One can say that while time changes everything and everything changes with time, Almighty God and the heavens remain the same. Hebrews 13:8,
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever.” In Genesis 1:14, God created lights in the sky to separate day and night.” In Luke 21:25, “There will be signs in the sun, moon and the stars.” The celestial sky is God’s heavenly calendar, a source of order, for planting crops, judgements, rewards, etc…, it is like the RAM in the computer, a modem connection from Heaven to earth. Almighty God is a sovereign orderly perfect Creator. He is all truth and the origin of love. God is the greatest creator, mathematician, scientist, philosopher, physician, artist, poet…, etc. God is beyond brilliant because the Bible aka Book of Instructions Before Leaving Earth is written is such a way that every generation aligns with each biblical story and characters for each particular generation. Almighty God is up in the heavens but always all around us through His word, the Holy Spirit, the beauty of nature and the beauty of us as humans and that which is within us through the Holy Spirit. Nothing He has done is coincidental and always by design. Therefore, every agent is by design and intertwined through patterns, habits, traditions and even biomimicry because man mimics the patterns and talents of animals/nature. Man was created on the 6th day (6 number of man) from the dust of the earth and we share the same elements of nature. The human body is mathematically and scientifically created from dirt. That’s the best form of recycling. God is great!!! As we grow and mature intellectually, we transform ourselves by renewing our hearts through the Holy Spirit, having a personal/ individual relationship with Almighty God, through thought process, behaviors and interactions with others and our surroundings. As Christians, we are from the seed of Almighty God’s family of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 1:16 “I have complete confidence in the gospel; it is God’s power to save all who believe, first the Jews and also the Gentiles.” As for the atheist, they probably follow the serpent seed. Luke 12:9, “But anyone who denies me here on earth will be denied before God’s angels.” The world is comprised of two sides to everyone and everything. There has always been good and evil, right and wrong, order and chaos, love and hate and heaven and hell. So, yes, our seed is our identity and bearing fruit is our inheritance.
Secondly, Carl Jung, like many others should be admired for brilliant contributions to humanity. However, no one is above Yeshua Hamashiach’s wisdom. And in all honesty we are all philosophers in our own right if we question and challenge ourselves in the existence of being and everything that surrounds us above and below. Also, if we question the knowledge of our conclusions, the solutions to problems by using methodical and systematical thinking as well as our attitudes towards life, attitude towards our fellow man and our surroundings it is part of our humanistic philosophy. Anyone who seeks answers to these questions of existence, knowledge and or solutions to these problems is a philosopher. In my opinion all answers can be found in Almighty God the Father and creator of all.
True, the chair is more than just a chair; it’s a material object made of wood, fabric, leather etc…, it has a purpose for sitting, filling a decorative space and was made by a carpenter like Jesus Christ. We ourselves are more than just one thing with great value and purpose. The glass of water is more than just a glass of water. Our acknowledgement of the value of the substance in the glass is one’s individual responsibility, failure and or reward. We ourselves are created in Almighty God’s image and as the water in the glass holds value, we have immeasurable value. Failure to realize our value and potential is a great devastation and we deny our inheritance. On Aristotle’s question of nature he uses the example of the statue asking four questions with four events or causes: what components make up the statue? (Bronze; the material event/cause) what is it ( a statue; the formal event/cause) what brought into existence (a sculptor; the efficient event/cause) and what was its purpose ( decorative; the final event/cause).
Since I only had a few minutes to view this RUclips I can’t comment further but would like to conclude with a quote from Sabina Spielrein -“As an example, let us examine a previously differentiated experience: a sunny day in spring that endless generations before us have often enjoyed. To reproduce the experience, we must consciously differentiate the shapes of the trees, grass, and sky, conforming to the current content of consciousness. We no longer are concerned merely with a spring day, but with our own special, personally colored spring day. On the other hand, when this differentiated product enters another individual’s psyche, a re-transformation occurs. Conscious processing by another involves his personal impressions of a spring day. In addition, to conscious processing, the image falls into an unconscious ‘working through’, moving the current personal impression down to the ‘Mothers’ and dissolving it. In the unconscious, we may find the spring day broken down into its components, the sun, the heavens, and plants that are organized (or perhaps more correctly, molded) according to mythological forms known to us from folk psychology. In each declaration of a thought, which is a portrait of an image, we establish a generalization in which words are symbols, serving to mold universally human and universally comprehensible ideas around the personal, i.e., the impressions are depersonalized.”
Thank you, Jonathan for covering an interesting topic. Almighty God bless you and your family. ✝️
So good, Jonathan. Our world is thought made visible.
Incredible. Brilliant. Thank you Dr. Peterson for spotlighting Jonathan Pageau. I found myself tearing up. Listening now for the second time.
Go Go Jordan!
You look healthy! Wish you the best!
From Reality and the Sacred to the future!
This was fantastic. The most concise deposit of Pageau’s symbolic framework I’ve heard yet. Thank you!
Thanks, i am Bulgarian Orthodox and this was very informative for me.
Cheers to youuuu jordan introducing to the whole world our new ways of life..i am healed and on the right path..
Every knee shall bow in the end. I praise Yah that this isn't just symbolic for me the word is living and exudes life and everything needed to foster correct existence.. I will try my best to walk out my faith until my last breath.
Absolutely brilliant explanation of the fractal pattern in Creation. It’s all patterns within patterns, and fields within fields.
I guess you could say that there is no becoming without being, and there is no being without becoming.
Wonderful. Every see a Mandelbrot zoom? It speaks to your comment.
It’s not even Monday!! What a fucking TREAT!!! Thank you, Jordan
been getting more and more into mr. Pageau's videos and discussions. New years resolution is to read the bible!
Hows the bible going for you? I started on jan 5 and its jan 16 right now. Im at genesis 32. This has been interesting reading, since i was a hardcore atheist for almost 10 years.
@@oscargarcia2011 well i'm doing some pre bible reading so i've been diving into the history of religious ideas by m. eliade and am half way through the first vol... i'm thinking if I should finish the other 2 volumes and then get into the bible or just start after this first volume.. we'll see where my interests takes me. either way i'm excited to get into it... last "year" I also read st ephrem's hymns on paradise as well as the life of moses by st gregory of nyssa which also fuelled my interests in the bible. how's it going for you?
I would recommend “Bible in A Year” podcast by Fr. Mike Smytz. It’s so wonderful and there are people around the world listening in. I think it is very hard to make sense of some of the Bible so BIAY breaks it down and explains. God bless you!
Are u halfway
@@marystenson2852 checking it out ty
What a wonderful discussion. Now my mind is spinning and sleep eludes me! Very invigorating.
your patterning for others being like God is very beautiful. thank you for real 🥲
Almost skipped the q and a, so glad I didn’t; brilliant. Glory to God, love you both.
@Kiwi Connoisseur I am Orthodox. Why would you assume differently?
@Kiwi Connoisseur You really won't get anyone to convert with this approach. That's not how it works.
Paul VanderKlay got an indirect shout out! I really enjoyed his conversation with Benjamin Boyce and Pageau earlier this year (on Benjamin Boyce's podcast)
Yes! That was a great conversation. I will always remember Jonathan saying that “we are at the end of something, and the beginning of something, but we don’t know what yet...” (paraphrasing). And then COVID hits....totalitarianism rears up on it’s hind legs, and we are now thrust into whatever the heck this interpretation of reality is!
Jonathan Pageau is so good at explaining these high notions, and even does so in an accessible way that isn't too cerebral or esoteric.
Q people know what you suggest and just how radical this thought is.
The unseen is constantly around us with open doors.
“Whatsoever a man thinketh in his heart SO IS HE.”
I love watching both of these men think. It makes me want to cry as you see the gears moving.
I sense honesty in observation.
Thank you gentlemen.
You have given my “hope” a refreshing glass of water.
God bless you! Jesus has always loved us all from the beginning.. time is getting close, everyone is making sense of what is to come, His return 😇🕊 I’ve been watching this guy back when I was into New Age before I was saved
This has been happening to a lot of channels I follow like Mudfossil university Praise God!!!
It's so nice to see Jordan and Tammy together, looking happy and healthy, after what they've been through.
I studied art history at University so this is a gem. I am also a woman of faith so this.
we are the expression of everything thank you Jesus
Thank you Dr. Peterson this will take my lifetime to understand half of it, you probably think I’m crazy but I also still can’t grasp that you have being instrument on discerning the word of God, And now you have MrJonathan P. Who is the complement of your illumination, I am in awe. Thank you
The single most engaging and revealing podcast/lecture I have seen. Should be required viewing. His reading of the black hole of wokism is liberating.
Jonathan is great, also order his graphic novel “Gods dog” it’s crowd funded but has already reached multiple goals so you’ll get your copy for sure now.
Viva Cristo Reign Mr Peterson 🙏🌹❤️☀️
Thank you for posting this, Jordan. Fascinating.
@Kiwi Connoisseur - Maybe someday. Protesting is more my thing for now. ;-)
YES YES YES, JONATHAN, IT ALL RESONATES SO DEEPLT . THANK YOU.
God Bless you all.
What a blessing Jonathan is to this world. Been so impacted by Jordan petersons work for awhile now but i’m also glad he led me to Jonathan cuz wow these two are both so full of knowledge and perspective and as a Christian I love seeing Jonathan pushing Jordan’s views nd challenging him in the respectful way he does it’s just so cool i love and respect these two so much for everything they’ve done, continue to do and will do for the time being. God bless you all
Jonathan is the GOAT!
He is a?
Wow. Thank you for sharing so much of your audience with Pageau! He is indeed a great and interesting guy
This was truly excellent. Watching this group stretch each other is a true privilege. I do attempt to glean one practical application from such experiences, and here I have coined a new phrase. Henceforth, when I attempt to assist someone who is attempting to amass success from inappropriate potential I will recommend to them to stop "eating rocks!"
I have nothing to share other than to express my profound gratitude the magnitude and the the transforming lectures contained herein ,,,,,the reality of Truths,,,,the symboic world and much more
Participation is key factor in making meaningful decisions the brings true changes in manifestation
Peace profound
I'm grateful for the opportunity to listen to Mr Pageau
I was gifted 12 Rules For Life today for my birthday today, I'm so excited to read it! God Bless and keep up the amazing work Jordan!
Jordan, I really appreciate the intelligence and independent thought of Jonathan. He deserves to be in similar circles as yourself. I had a hard time connecting to Jonathan in this talk, and I think part of it is he may not be actively engaging the audience in the way that you have stated that you do. I wish the best for Jonathan, I think people need to hear his thoughts, and I hope he developed his presentation skills to the level of his skillful thought. This is not a slight against Jonathan, his thinking is in the exceptional category and I think he is a good speaker. I really am rooting for him to become all that he can be.
Trust me that is a thing😀 people at first can’t really define Jonathan’s way of communicating. There are tons of people who got into his work that he’s interviewed or has been interviewed said about it but after a while of watching more of his videos IT CLICKS! Lightbulb goes off! Trust me if you like Jordan’s work, keep watching Jonathan’s videos. They’re full of wisdom and intuition! Also, what did u have a hard time connecting together in this talk?
@@CarlosVargas-jz8gl Thanks for the response, I had a hard time connecting with Jonathan in the lecture portion. When he was answering questions, both from Jordan and others it was better. I have seen an earlier video of him having a conversation with Jordan that I didn't have a problem with. I can't quite pin it down, like was it that he didn't seem to be looking at us through the camera? I'm not sure, I just thought Jordan might be able to see what I am seeing and have some better answers than I would have for Jonathan.
@@briankucich9017 It could be the materialistic framework most of us have been conditioned with that makes Jonathan’s explanations difficult to chew on. Jordan does help distill them a bit.
“Meaning comes down from above” this also can relate to the head/brain being on TOP of the body and trying to interpret and control, subdue, the lower parts of the body.
The reality of creation as REAL and that not a theory - yet not something that makes science irrelevant either - this hits you like a ton of bricks when life breaks you and the stuff you were exposed to in the Bible appears physically in a way that I can’t believe. Science and god can coexist. End the fight. Love each other and look for light in people and everywhere. The field is literally making the ability see this hierarchy in 3D - the sky and earth planes are illuminated and open people can see souls above and around in energetic moments. We are connected tot this unified field because we
are of this field and made from the water why’d we drink. Ritual is spiritual awareness. When the connectivity is removed, as it has been by the age of AI and most obviously during the pandemic with all the lockdowns etc. - when it is removed and our energies are separated we can’t literally survive . Whoa I just got a crazy light in my eye and as he drank the water was picking mine up. THIS is what you will notice. Something about the seeking and the like minds even over a phone with a person - the fact that’s he’s doing and speaking of the things I am feeling causes a literal magnet. My light is turned on more powerfully instantaneously. Sorry I got a little nutty here but I am sometimes overwhelmed by this path.
The reality is creation loved us and desires is all faiths for us to love each other, have fun with each other and above all else honor our lives as children loved by that creation by never falling into fear. Person who starts to awake and becomes lit with this active energy will change something like 5,000 (check this in Wayne Dyer’s material) just be being in a place. I am serious.
All things are paradoxical when viewed through an educated and philosophical mind
Excellent. This truth is literally stamped into the human body: we are the only species on earth whose natural posture is to walk upright, with the head (the center of intelligence, the part of us that understands and grasps meaning, etc) above and the more "earthy," visceral parts of us below.
It was my epiphany from this is that the perfection of the Heavenly Father is to raise children through experience that mind themselves, that choose to do the right thing from their own will, not solely from force, compulsion, or necessity but through love.
Nothing but just gratitude to Dr. Peterson and Jonathan. Great lesson.
'Darwin bringing back Plato" ... this was a brilliant discussion. Natural selection acts as an unseen authority, an unseen telos. Natural selection appears to be the Platonic "Good". Darwin identified a biological pattern that points to metaphysical reality. IMO, a Pageau and Peterson dialog is heaven at work. I love these guys. A Platonic love of course :)
@@keithhunt5328 It depends on your level of metaphysics. Some, not all, biologist operate at the physical and material level. Even they assume a hierarchy of process, a direction in process. Biologist, being human, operate in a hierarchy. We are all platonic and we dont even know it.
Right right. Natural selection is the natural default mode. It's fractal, it grows, it kills or creates. Humanity itself through intellect is the "Platonic good" because it is better than the default. It is above the fractals, the natural processes, and the irony is sometimes nature doing a better job than humanity itself. Nature can generate goods and bads. Humanity can create good or bad. But the intellect in humanity can great much greatness or civilization.
@@billtimmons7071 I would say there are natural hierarchies formed but that civilization and intellect is the good.
@@bx3556 Agree. I think the questions that are tricky to answer are the what that drives; the direction of nature; why does nature "form" hierarchies. Our own language seems to get caught up in formal and final causation. We cant escape. Physicalism has an appeal but my bias is towards a higher metaphysics ... I believe in top down and bottom up reality. It just seems more comprehensive.
@@keithhunt5328 Point taken Keith ... but science has always had a direction. In my experience Maxwell's equations, the periodic table, and quantum physics demonstrates a "goal" or telos. We are always trying to unify and come to a totalizing law of some kind. Darwin thesis has been tweaked and adapted sine his death. We cant escape formal and final causation. I believe Platonism is still relevant now as it was 2500 years ago because there are objective "things" out there to be discovered.. I believe Darwin was on the right track, and he in no way contradicted classical theism but he did critique contemporary superstition and shallow theism. IMO, we are embedded in telos, and formal cause but we are blind to them because we are "in" them. What is your take on the "goal" of science?
It's important to have this dialogue with consciousness; and share the mystery of being with those of us not yet realizing the potential for which we exist, which is the very meaning and purpose of the experience.
God damn it. Now I have to listen to every thing this guy has ever said too. Thanks a lot JP 😐
God **bless** it. 😊
It's all available in podcast form too. Welcome to the Symbolic World! There's a facebook group by the same name.
LOL
@Kiwi Connoisseur the irony ;D
If you're just starting, his conversations with EMP are pretty good places to start. Any ones with the agnostics really since he has to kind of dumb it down.
This is the most excellent teaching on the true reality of existence I have ever heard. It's simplicity is powerful.
We are the existence of reality and not just experiencing what society dictates is real. I enjoyed every bit of this video👍
This is a life changing teaching. Learned a whole lot
Perfect~ I've been re-watching the Biblical Series for a 3rd time. Pageau's patterning explanation reminded me of Homeric writings, Kabbalah, Peterson's levels of resolution, and Australian First Nations' pattern thinking~ perennial philosophy
Yes and its above all those. Orthodoxy is the only perennialism because its the only embodied frame to view perennialism through. Cheers.
@@summan41man oh~ I like that aphhorism, can I steal it...?
@Kiwi Connoisseur I disagree~ reminds me of Pharisees berating Jesus for his 'new interpretation', or Copernicus and Galileo receiving backlash from religious authorities for suggesting something other than 'what is already known', or ...tyranny...basically, the opposite of 'the wind not blowing upon the waters'; a stagnate pool does not enable Creation (another perennial philosophy ~;-) Patterns!
@@william_02 As above, so below ~:-)
@@summan41man Thanks kindly, I'm still going to tip-my-hat to you when I make the sticker etc
God bless! More Jonathan and Jordan discussion please!
Thank you so much. Your lectures are helping me understand, heal from being misunderstood, and increase in faith.
Dr. Peterson,
Thank You for all this content and sharing your work with us, audience though from afar, equally eager and engaged. Best Regards from Poland.