The Invasion of Tinian with Jon Parshall-Episode 317
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- Опубликовано: 22 янв 2024
- This week Seth, Bill and Jon wrap up the pivotal Operation FORAGER with the last and, arguably, the most important conquest of the entire operation, the invasion of Tinian. The rapid success of the Tinian operation belies an easy time, but the team breaks down the lead-up to and execution of what has been called the most perfect amphibious operation in history. The capture of Tinian allowed for the establishment of the, then-busiest airfield in the world at Tinian's North Field. The field would see fleets of B-29's take off and land on their way to and from the strategic bombing campaign over Japan, including both atomic bombing missions. Tune in and see what the guys have to say as we wrap up FORAGER.
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I don't know if you guys have seen my previous comments, but a lot of fleet Marines listen to this podcast. Not just for the history and lessons learned, but Jon Parshall's wallpaper and Captain Toti's face when a submarine is mentioned.
Lfmao…. even civilians like me smirk watching the both . Good stuff mate
Parshall's wallpaper is a bit too "busy" for me, then with a Hawaiian shirt on it is just dazzling....
Hahaha!
The relevance of Tinian continues to this day, 12/17/23 The US Air Force announced that Tinian North Airfield will be reclaimed from the jungle, rebuilt, and made active once again.
The airfield "has extensive pavement underneath the overgrown jungle. We'll be clearing that jungle out between now and summertime," General Wilsbach said, adding that it will be "an extensive" facility once construction is complete.
Let us hope the deterance is enough in the end.
@@robert506007 ikr, the current weakness must be quite inviting... literally.
@@robert506007 I greatly prefer the expense of a credible and overwhelming deterent to the cost in blood and treasure of actual military conflict. Deterence can make even madmen decide to play nice. Witness the Cold War.
There is a saying among chess players that the threat is stronger than it's execution. For what it is worth, that has to do with some deterence.
China is looming after all with North Korea right behind them in a week Russia right behind them
As a retired Infantry veteran my favorite Army branch is the Artillery.
My father was a Navy veteran of World War Two in the Pacific. He drove landing craft on Saipan, Tinian, Guam and Iwo Jima. He was transferred to a fleet tug for the invasion of Okinawa. He said the best part of being on the Tug was that when the typhoon hit Okinawa his ship could sail to the lee side of the island which was a lot safer.
❤
Looking forward to this one. I trained on Tinian in the late 90s. I found out later my grandfather had been on the island during the war. The specifics are frustratingly blurry.
God Bless you and our brave troops. Peeling back the layers of the onion, so we understand history better.
My dad was a MC radio operator on Tinian. He was in the second wave and said when he got there the first wave was still mopping up. He said he was shot at. He described the use of flame throwers. He brought back pictures that still exist. For 70 yrs after that’s all he talked about…RIP Dad
@@gregrobinson100 Do you know what unit your Father was in?
My father was in the USMC 18th AA BN. They were supposed to be in thee invasion, but there was a train wreck on the way to the west coast which caused a delay and they arrived right after the island was considered "secure".
@@warrenglen7636 I am not sure now, trying to get his records from DOD. He passed in 2012. Will advise
I have to get up at 4:00am CST everyday. Tuesdays have become my favorite morning, because by the time I’ve poured some coffee a new episode of the podcast will have been uploaded.
Thanks for letting us listen in on ya’ll’s conversations.
I get up an hour early on Tuesday's to catch these before work 😂
Being Anglo German I have a natural bias to the ETO - so this series has been such a treasure and has opened my eyes to an area that was so greatly underplayed during my schooling. Long may these weekly chats at the ‘bar’ continue and my heartfelt thanks!
You therefore, must have also cringed in the Band of Brothers scene in which some German prisoners are executed by Spiers after disarming them with cigarettes and candy..SOO SAD!
"Not the hill he wanted to die on," killer quote Seth. Great beach report by the UDT as well, guys. Thanks for reporting the Colorados actions there.
I love Seth's professional opinion of whether or not Turner approved the plan, "horse shit". Could not have said it better myself. Great Torpedo Tuesday guys.
I loved that comment by Seth. Turner got his ass handed to him by everyone.
A reason why this channel is so good is that the personalities come into play. Admirals versus Generals and the facets of raw history become clearer.
Thank you John, Seth and my hero, Captain Todi.
I'm sorry be a jerk, but spelling the Captain's name, Toti, and clipping the diction correctly is kind of a bìg deal, because "Todi"or Toti, can phonetically sound the same as toady, which is a major insult: bootlicker and sycophant topping the synonymous list. Not our man..ever.. You probably know that, since you have him in your hero hall( me, too) but now everyone does. And "dy" never appears in Italian spelling. The vocal cord/ laryngeal injury that our Captain incurred at the Pentagon on 9/11 has cost him some loss of diction precision, and tonal range, so when😮 he says his own name, it sounds like Toady. Recently, the Captain has felt a bit embarrassed at his difficulty with pronunciation of Japanese and other South Pacific names that in former times he had the facility and the vocal range to handle. Lately, Jon has come to Bill's😮 defense and aid, and they both laugh loudly. Seth doesn't care much about it. He talks Southern anyhow. No wonder he and Dave Holland are joined at the hip. What a great crew!😢Jon belly laughs more in one episode than I do in a year, something that I lament!
All the more reason for multiple plays.❤😂🎉
I can't thank you guys enough. I've always enjoyed military history and these back and forth narrative type shows make this stuff stick in my head like glue. The documentaries are fine but I almost have to take notes to remember it. A conversation is much easier to absorb.
I don't know the plans but I'd almost donate an arm or leg to have you guys break down Anzio and Salarno and the Po Valley. My grandfather caught frostbite in Po Valley in WW2.
Fun fact: in 2007 the VA gave him 80% disability back from 1943....all at once.
Thanks You. From the time I watched your first show the importance of the program to me is great. Literally growing up in the military (large family of veterans), the truth needs to be put out and rehashed, bad rumors and inaccurate information is a killer in history studies.
Thanks. As an AF veteran, I have liked details in battles to learn and theorize a Do over on paper since I was 15.
Vanilla History bored 3 generations of schoolchildren.
Yep,no one teaches history anymore! These guys are the real deal!!
It's great seeing three of my favorite historians getting together and talking history!
Another outstanding episode, informative and engaging. So many accounts of the Marianas campaign are focused primarily on Saipan, addressing the taking of Guam and Tinian as mere afterthoughts. This episode and the preceding one on Guam filled what for many of us armchair WWII enthusiasts was a significant void.
The three of you interact with each other so seamlessly, which greatly enhances the viewer/listener experience. Kudos to Seth and Captain Bill for conceiving this historical treasure and steering it ably. And additional kudos to you both for bringing in truly exceptional guests like Jon. Well done.
And they get better with each episode!
Thank u fellas. Quick question. Have you ever thought about doing a few shows on the battle of the Atlantic. We do have plenty of submarine experts out there and our skipper loves covering sub warfare. Just a thought
This is the strategic Jewel in the Crown of the Marianas Invasion and the reason all of that campaign occurred when it did.
The Forager series has been great. VERY informative, and very well presented. You two fellows do a fine job, but adding Jon really polishes the gem! Thanks for doing this series. It was a very interesting tidbit to hear about the ongoing restoration of some of the old bases.
Yea!! It's Tuesday morning. I'm off work. I can sit, knit, and enjoy. Thanks.❤
Now Kay, the trio can truly say they've hit it home with someone watching and knitting!
Your videos have become a nice staple of and a bright spot to my deployment thus far.
Really do appreciate all the work, thoughts, and perspectives put into these episodes!
It is reassuring that the U.S. military chooses such very kind and nice people as Captain Toti to lead such hugely powerful weapons as fast nuclear submarines. I think that it says a lot about how reliable and sensible high-ranking commanders are who face such high responsibilities. Well done.
Another great episode. Well done Gents!
The crowd asked for more Jon, and Seth and Bill delivered. UHotPW is good stuff.
I wish my dad was still here. He passed away at age 94 and was a combat infantryman in the Pacific. He would have loved your series. He always said that the ETO got all the attention.
Gentlemen, greetings from NZ, I enjoy your podcast regularly - being in the South Pacicific as a resident for the past 40 years I am somewhat familiar with the geography of some of the areas you discuss, and given be boyhood in Massachusetts , I knew many US Marines from the 2nd marine Division, not the least of whom was Charles R Quist ( Ret. USMC) , who had a few comments on my move to NZ back in the late 1980's. I would also like to mention Burton Quist ( Ret USMC) recently deceased and Ruggs (Charles R ) 2 grandsons , both of whom are USMC officers currently. I thank them for their service.
I am currently channeling the Pacific Campaign - now following the 1944, 1945 activities which had a more propitiate impact on my family , as my father was preparing to ship out for the pacific in 1944 as a young ensign navel fighter pilot.
I too served , but in the USAFSS - Pacific Air Command in the late 70's early 80's, so all of this history is fascinating and pertinent to me.
I was unable to get much info from those older gentlemen - Ruggs only comment - " I know I am going to heaven, 'cause I have already been to hell". I also have serendipity to thank for my existence, as my father Dave Stiles broke his wrist in a soccer game , just prior to shipping out with his air group , and so he was held back and saw no combat , unfortunately several of his group did not survive.
.. an so, your history is wonderful for me - hope to visit Dave Holland on Guadalcanal some time , John Parshall is superb, and of course , I cannot say enough about Seth and Bill - many thanks to you all.
Kia kaha
Great post kiwi. The Marine history from NZ is great. They had quite an affect in the Shaky Isles. One Marine went back to Wellington in 1998 and married his sweetheart from WW2.
Just back from my most recent visit to the WWII Museum in NOLA, and was pleased to hear the dulcet tones of none other than Seth narrating one of the in-theater films. And as much as it pains me to say it as a USMA grad, Capt. Bill Toti is a national treasure and I could listen to him talk submarines, navigation, or gunnery all day long. Keep it up guys, you are awesome. Cannot wait for Peleliu and your views on Rupertus, Puller, and the exsanguination of the 1st Marines in the Umurbroghol.
Those episodes were as painful as I expected. There was no other way to tell it. SO SAD!! PULLER AND RUPERTUS were both acutely exhausted and suffering. Especially Puller. I don't think Rupertus started with as much in his tank as Puller, but even he ran out. The shame is that no one was looking for mental exhaustion. It wasn't culturally admissible.
Tinian is perhaps the only battle field that I had the opportunity to visit in my career is a USAF pilot. The North Tinian Airfield was an area where US forces in the Pacific pretty much had a free hand to do whatever they wished. The C-130s of the 374 TAW moved the SeaBees from Guam and the Marines from Okinawa on numerous Joint Airborne/Airtransportability Training (JA/ATT) exercises on the airfield during the 1980s. I made my only parachute jump of many with the 3rd Aerial Delivery Platoon from a C-141 on the North Tinian DZ.
Had the fortune to explore the shore on the North West and found a undamaged pillbox the was shaped like a prism. It was about 5 feet high and maybe 20 feet long with several firing ports facing the ocean. It was constructed of steel reinforce concrete with sides about 1 feet thick.
I also found the hard stand where the A bombs were loaded. The site was overgrown with Tanga Tanga vegetation and in complete disrepair. The facility was basically like a trough with steps like an oil change pit.
If you stand on any of the 4 runways and look south, the rise in terrain appears like a plateau.
As a side light. When on JA/ATT support we (the USAF) would stay in the 5 star (tongue in cheek) hotel in Tinian and drive north before sunrise on the only road that ran to the airfield. Frogs would infest the warm road during the night and would make popcorn popping sounds as we rode over them.
Johnathan is fantastic! Thank you for continuing to include him, and try to persuade him to start his own podcast! Haha (The RisingSun Cast) would be amazing I know it
My dad did not talk about his experiences in the war it has been great listening to your reports on the things he went through. You are much appreciated.
My Dad was a Marine aviator. He flew in a B-25. When I asked him about the war he said he didn’t have any stories to tell. Long after he died I found a box in my mothers basement of his personal effects from the war. It included a map showing every place his unit served. It included a flight log with mission descriptions of bomb runs, missile launches, and strafing on Saipan, Pelileu, Okinawa and Iwo Jima among other places. That was the Greatest Generation. They earned that name.
I just love this series. It's the highlight of my week honestly. The information and everyone's personalities are great.
I read the title and thought, "I don't remember that one," then saw it was released 5 hours ago. How exciting! Thank you so much, guys. You made my day. ❤️
Thank you for the in-depth history lesson, waiting for next Tuesday.
Marines and invasions. My uncle was in NEVADA during the Pearl Habor attack. On the way to Iwo Jima or Okinawa he came across a Marine on deck. The Marine didn't look well. He mentioned this was going to be his 5th invasion. I hope he survived.
Well done gentlemen. I wonder how many of the listeners/viewers feel disappointment like I do when I see the episode is only an hour and a half instead of two hours? Glad to see you're getting some commercials to.start episodes. You certainly have earned some financial.rewards for your efforts. Thanks again.
Lol, I get disappointed it’s not 3 !
Thanks again Seth, Captain Toti and Jon. Excellent presentation (redundant they're all excellent). I really like Jon, excellent writer and historian. You're appreciated brothers.
I always look up YT to see the episode at 4 in the morning so I can look forward to watching it at my evening hangout on Tuesday!
😊😊😊😊😊
Again... another battle rarely covered in most histories. Thank you for, again, another great talk. Always good to see Jon and his wall paper. P.S. If Jon ever does merchandising... that wall paper should be included. It's so him.
Thank You Guys for my Tuesday mornings enjoyment. Bravo Zulu !!
Another excellent episode.
I enjoyed the hearing the story about how Admiral Turner was basically told to “sit down” when it came to deciding where the initial invasion force would strike the Island.
I wonder if he was man enough to go to Admiral Harry Hill after the Island had been secured and admit he had been wrong in his protest of the White Beach landing location.
Any episode that includes a Godzilla reference is extra special in my opinion. Great work yet again gentlemen.
Great content, as usual. You guys raise the bar. Excellent, studied content, while easy to listen.
You guys have gotta get Sal M from 'Whats going on with Shipping' on to talk logistics. Excellent stuff you're putting out. First class, since I've found you guys you've become a permanent part of my Tuesday morning. Somewhere along the way though you've gotta explain where all the stuff came from and what it took to accomplish right place right time delivery. Keep doing what you're doing, I can't get enough!
Life is good this Tuesday. Thanks guys, God bless.
I recently discovered your channel and love what you’re doing. Since my father served on Tinian, I was immediately interested in seeing your content. My only critique was that you failed to mention the Seabees by name, but mentioned Marine engineers - it was the Seabees who designed and built the landing craft that enabled vehicles to land above the cliffs. Also, the amount of coral used to construct North Field could have filled a coal car train that stretched from NYC to LA (this fact is lifted from the book “From Omaha to Okinawa” by William Bradford Huie. Thought you’d enjoy that bit of information. 😉
Awesome coverage of Forager, guys. I take on board that napalm may not have been deployed in the Pacific before Tinian, but it might have been used prior for Overlord/Normandy. Looking forward to the next show.
Loved being the fly on the wall in the alcohol lubricated meeting of two favorites Kelly Turner and Howlin' Mad. No paint left on those walls.
Another excellent presentation. The interactions between the three of you are a joy to watch. The level of detail is just right to give a balance of strategic, operational and tactical levels. The discussion of command egos at work is fascinating. The respect shown is also a tribute to those who were there.
It's obvious how much learning is taking place as various operations progress. As an Australian I've observed similar between our earlier days and concluding operations such as Tarakan and Balikpapan; with the latter two also being examples of questionable strategic value.
Those operations were probably another case of 'Doug strikes again!'. Oddly enough Doug's increasing unwillingness to use non-American units later results in the 'Morotai Mutiny' where key officers of the RAAF First Tactical Air Force express their 'dissatisfaction' with being sidelined to irrelevant operations. But it's all relative, earlier on Doug didn't mind using RAAF Catalinas to mine Manila Harbour when (allegedly) the US Navy was less amenable.
I also look forward to every Tuesday morning. You guys consistently do an outstanding job. Love your insights on these campaigns. 👍👍
Seth, I argued with a fridge once and then had surgery to fix the compression fracture on my L-4 vertebrae. It sucked!!!
I'll be there next week! Precious, very interesting hard work. Thank you Bill, Seth and Jon!!!
Loved this episode about the invasion and capture of Titian.
I learned a lot that I didn’t know, especially about the UDT’s and the incredibly strong artillery support from Saipan and the 75’s brought ashore by the Marines on White Beach.
Also didn’t know about the “feint” invasion near Tinian Town in the South.
This is BY FAR the best channel about World War 2 (particularly about the Pacific Campaign) on the planet.
As usual, GREAT JOB guys!!
Another great presentation - really enjoying the deep dives!
Thanks guys. Your podcasts should be a required part of history taught in our schools today.
My initial reaction to the Holland Smith vs. Kelly Turner fight was a lot like the general American reaction to the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s: "It's a shame they can't both lose." Given the subject of the fight, and the outcome, it's clear my initial reaction was premature.
I truly LOVE you guyz (you too Parshall) GO ARMY 🙃🏈🇺🇸
Thanks
Thanks!
So what did i learn/re-learn on this one. The value of all source intelligence (with confirmation) fused into a single product and provided to the right decision makers and operators in a timely manner. The value of a feint and the resources necessary to make it believable. The willingness to adapt (a Marine Corps adage) landing tactics to a narrow frontage. Just imagine those beach masters barking orders and waving their arms. The value of tactical surprise. I could raise the value of fire support, but those guys already have tickets on themselves and don't need me to buy more. However, I think the big lesson here is that if you have a good idea, and you think that it will achieve the objective with a reduction in casualties, that you should fight for it tooth and nail. Excellent program guys particularly as you have walked the ground.
SC in the house!
I can bills shoulder is healing .When you our age,it takes longer for your body to heal.Bill looks refreshed and rarring to go.Thanks guys for another splendid video.
Great show gentlemen.
Let me start by saying I too look forward to Tuesday’s to download the freshest episodes to listen too while I drive my day job. I love all of them & hope to meet all of you one day at some conference or memorial.
Two things: can we have a quick take episode that covers USS Maryland’s revenge on the shore battery please ? The Gunners Mate & battleship fan in me felt left hanging that you didn’t touch on that revenge for the USS Colorado battle damage.
Second : I’m going back to Galveston for my second dry dock tour of the USS Texas restoration on the 11th of Feb. I will take tons of photos . Cheers ! - Wright
Loved the content every week from Seth & Bill since I first started watching back in Midway. Learned new things every episode. Jon's input is phenomenal every time (wallpaper and shirt combo is legendary) 😅
Great unauthorized historical video ❤
I was happy to hear the 24th Marines mentioned. I served in 2nd Battalion/24th Marines in the 1990's. 🙂
This episode show a 105mm crew firing several rounds on a fire mission. The photographer was situated behind the piece and I could see the individual crew members doing their tasks. This brought back a rush of memories as I was a Field Arty officer and we trained on these tubes at Sill and later I was a safety officer A LOT on active duty and in the National Guard. Incidentally, they were doing everything right. They were really dug in well as the gun barely moved when they fired it. Thanks for rekindling the memories. Keep up the good work. The episodes on Saipan, Guam, and Tinian were excellent.
Thank you so much for this episode. My dad was an armorer in the 9th Bomb Group (Circle X) on Tinian. He told me how they took the machine guns out of the B29s so they could load more incendiary bombs for the fire bombing of Tokyo. While the civilian casualties were comparable to those of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, those bombing raids are far less known. He was also aware that a secret weapon was being loaded onto B29s on the island but the planes were cordoned off from the rest of the bombers. While he regretted the civilian casualties, the feeling shared by those on Tinian was that they were unavoidable as long as Japan refused to surrender.
Thanks for keeping this history alive.
I recently finished Shattered Sword, and found it very interesting. Excellent work Mr. Parshall. Ive also read Enterprise off of your recommendations. Thanks for all your hard work and time putting these programs on .
I always follow along with Google Earth.
You can see the bomb pits in 360° photos.
This series has certainly increased my geological knowledge of the Pacific! Thank you!
Thanks for your time to make the videos
You guys do a really great job. My heart felt thanks to you for all your hard work. All the best to you.
I'm grateful for you guys and your show!
Another gem. Thanks to you all!
Excellent as always guys! Thankyou and keep it up!
Another great one guys.
Excellent episode thank you
Excellent as always, great show - Thank You
Thank you Bill Seth and Jon.
I have tried to figure why I love your presentations so well. TV-MA. No holds bar. State the unadulterated truth, and let chips fall where they may.
Well done once again gentlemen!
Draper Kaufman, the first Navy Frogman. Great biography. Remarkable man. Great show gentlemen, you too Jon.
Best time of the week!
Thank you very much for your videos. One aspect of the Pacific (and all theaters, for that matter) that seems to have gone completely unmentioned is the contribution by seaplane tenders. My dad served on the seaplane tender Currituck and I'd love to see an episode about these admittedly unglamorous, but important warships.
Good to see you let the hair down Seth.
Enjoyed this one fellas…as per the norm
Thank you again gentlemen. I learn every time I watch one of these video and everyone who admits to being interested in the history of the Pacific I just gush about you and your depth of knowledge.
THANKS FOR THE MAPS!
Thanks for posting this video. My Father flew a B-29 from Titian in 1944-45.
Holland Smith says to Kelly Turner, "You can't handle the truth!"
The next best trio after these 3 is probably ZZ Top !
The entire Forager series was simply excellent! Bravo Zulu!!
awsome. getting better and better.
Another great episode guys! I would like to suggest making John a permanent part of the team and continue to add other experts like McManus when indicated.
Great content as always, thanks again for providing the map Bill, made it easier to follow the action. If I understand you guys correctly, the major airfields were placed on Tinian because it was flat and could accommodate more airstrips and hence more B-29s which could easily make the round trip to Tokyo and back. While Saipan with its hilly terrain was not as important strategically?
I have found out that Seth is even more clever cat than excellent content here. Channels name is such that YT finds it with one and half cyllable. 😂 People who frequent with Drachinifel, Rex's Hangar, and Montemayor need to find these guys. Well researched, still easy and entertaining to listen content.
I am sure Tinian is important to Bill for many reasons and this is just another in the long series of excellent scholarship and presentation. Thank you Seth, Bill and Jon.
On the M3/M5 "Stuart" tank, that 37mm gun could fire canister, essentially becoming a 37mm shotgun. Useful against massed charges.
My grandfather was among the co. A 1341st combat engineers on white beach one. He was a Pearl Harbor survivor, served Kwajalein, Saipan, Tinian. If u have any information on this group I and many others would deeply appreciate any insight given. I have researched all hyper war books, newspapers, and even fold 3 lol and there is little that speaks of their duties. Thank u for all ur valuable content.
Anyone seen the set of four shows called "Hell in the Pacific"? There is a Lee Marvin movie with the same name. The episodes are called Inferno, Purgatory, Armageddon, and Apocalypse. They are more of an overview rather than detailed accounts, but have very interesting and intimate interviews with soldiers and civilians of both sides and most of the nationalities involved. Very much worth viewing, especially in conjunction with this podcast...
1:18:05 Yay! The light cruiser Birmingham! My sainted father's ship.
Incredible, thanks Bill, Seth, Jon! So many answers revealed, so many questions created!! I'm curious as to the Japanese last stand. Were they just bombed in their caves? It would be interesting to see the terrain of the town and rocky defense positions up close.
Alexander Peña, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan and Tinian, He was WIA June 17th on Saipan and soon after was KIA July 30th on Tinian, the island was declared secured Aug 1st, He almost made it home, R.I.P Uncle Alex, the Greatest Generation of All Time, God Bless America!
Mr, Toti, you should try the 3d feature on google maps. For Tinian, one can have a perspective on the approaches. It could bring a viseal perspective to the landing zone. By moving the map around on can see various angles, almost shore level, not only the usual orthogonal view.