I think Darth Vader would win. I don't like how weak Darth Vader is than Darth Vader. We all know Darth Vader is better and more powerful than Darth Vader. I don't care what you people say Darth Vader would win in Darth Vader vs Darth Vader.
@@alexraileanu8990 but no I'm sorry to tell you this but no Destiny has made it very clear that Darth Vader is not the week Darth Vader from Legends with all the weaknesses Darth Vader's power with the force is so great he could tear apart Steel Bridges and make them as if they were aluminum paper
+Austin Nwachukwu That defeats the whole purpose. Anakin before he became Darth Vader fought without the Dark Side, which made his skill sets different. It would be a different vs video to have Anakin Skywalker VS Darth Vader. BTW Should be a video if Bandele hasn't made that already.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. In Episode III Darth Sidious clearly calls him Darth Vader. He is even called Darth Vader in the original Trilogy.DE ULTIMATE NEEGRO WIT NIEGGA FRENDS
Anakin: You Murder! You kill a lot of young Padawans Vader: Do not be a foolish Skywalker, you done so! ...well, you'll done it soon Anakin: And what makes you believe that?! Vader: Well, that's because... *Long Breath* ...I, Am Your Future.
As a Martial Arts Master and having been in the Martial Arts for 45 years, I would be more afraid of the older me than the younger me. My knowledge and understanding of techniques, skills, movement, and counter movements give me so much the advantage to counter and capitalize on the younger, faster, more athletic, and stronger version of myself. I've had my share of injuries over the years, but with each injury, my techniques and getting straight to the point become more refined to a quicker finish.
yeah well of course, but jar jar binks has been ruling/controlling everything from the background all along, so this was probably part of his masterplan, and honestly it's pretty clever. manipulating Vader into killing the emperor and himself, so the Empire would crumble, so he could come back into power as supreme leader Snoke of the First Order. pretty genius, but then again, that's what we've come to expect from Jar Jar.
To quote a certain pointy-eared space logic guy that passed away back in Feburary of this year, who hails from a rival franchise, whom faced off against his younger newest incarnation said the following. "Old age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time."
wouldn't skill come with experience though? as opposed to 'young and skilled', should it not be 'young and unskilled'? I believe the writers of that episode got it wrong.
+Danny HillJr The exact words of the legendary Leonard Nimoy (Spock), may he rest in peace, whom went up against his younger incarnation played by Zachary Quinto and won. Think before you act, my boy.
What’s fascinating about Vader, he didn’t entirely embrace both sides of the force. To me, this was a sign that Vader was the chosen one, because you can’t bring balance to the force, if you haven’t experienced both sides of the force.
People have a perception of suited Vader being slower, due to the way he moved in the original trilogy. But this isn't an accurate way of assuming such a thing. Light saber battles in the originals were simply not as quick and elegant as the prequels. Vader would have been almost just as fast. Vader lost his left arm below the elbow, meaning only wrist speed in his left wrist and fingers would be inhibited, as his elbow is still him. He lost his legs at the lower part of the knee, meaning that a lot of his knee movement is still him, though there would be a mechanical component. His ankle speed is the big limitation.
True- Suited Vader isn't JUST as fast, though. At least, not in long periods of time. In bursts, he can move in a full sprint or sudden full power stab, but he can't just sprint and keep on charging like he could as Anakin.
FORMINCRAFTIA That's the original films though. The lightsaber battles were totally different. Besides, Vader wasn't any slower than Obi Wan in IV, and in V he doesn't need to move fast to beat Luke.
Vader beats Anakin to a pulp. As Vader's about to crush his skull, Anakin then uses force whine - Vader blasted to pieces. "YOO UNDERESTAMATE MY POWWURRR."
+Stuart Colman ''You underestimate my power'' was actually one of the very few Anakin lines from the prequels, It wasn't with the whiny voice but It was filled with anger and arrogance, showing how much Anakin is affected by the dark side, don't get me wrong the prequels are horrible and I hate them for ruining Anakin's story but atleast hate on the bad stuff
Vader was stronger and more agile with the suit. When he wore the suit, he had burned skin and mechanical parts in his body which diminished his abilities.
I would have given it to Pre Suit Vader for these reasons. He has use of his body as it is not hindered by the cybernetic suit. While suit Vader has more guilt than something to fight for, unsuited Vader would have something to fight for. He would fight harder so he could find a way to save Padme from dying. Pre Suit Vader also has raw emotion. However, after watching this video, I can definitely see Suited Vader beating the unsuited one due to his tactical know how to distract, his knowledge of the multiple lightsaber forms, and his ability to survive multiple hits due to the suit. Good versus battle :)
***** lol, i was just messing with you, i've seen all star wars movies and you don.t know my age, but because you're so agressive i speculate you're between 10-13 years old. Have a nice day :)
It is stated that vader's suit was purpose built to surpass his powers as anakin but to remain weaker to the emperor vader is most definitely stronger than when he was anakin.
DUE TO POPULAR DEMAND I WILL BE READING THE FORCE UNLEASHED NOVEL IN PREPARATION FOR A VERSUS SERIES BETWEEN GALEN MAREK AND SOMEONE ELSE. VIDEO IS LIVE NOW: Versus Series | Anakin Skywalker vs Galen Marek
Kamikaze Failure Abalasismabababadan Even in the EU, Vader laments his lack of mobility in the suit and has to modify his fighting style. The last guy who stood up and fought a guy faster than him was Anakin fighting Dooku the first time, and Dooku owned him.
I honestly came to Similar conclusion when realizing how Vader cybernetics mastered so much more lightsaber styles and force abilities. What's sad is the weaknesses he gained with those cybernetics just made him more dangerous and less "carefree" about his damages, strategies, and battle as a whole
I disagree that suited Vader was a better duelist than Anakin/Vader. Anakin/Vader was vicious...lighting fast and aggressive. Also, he was at the very height of his Jedi prime. When suited Vader made Luke Skywalker angry in episode 6, he got his butt kicked. This is astonishing considering Luke was just ok and barely passable as a duelist. Yes, I said it fanboys. Luke sucked. He wasn't trained all of his life like Vader and the Jedi before him. He was a newby in a world of lost knowledge and limited training. Therefore, when Luke beat Vader...it was painfully obvious that Vader sucked too. Sorry, Antoine. As far as dueling goes...it goes to Anakin/Vader. Easily. So easily.
Vader was holding back against Luke both times they fought because of his love for his son if Luke wasent vaders son then Luke would have been shredded to pieces by vader not to mention he has 40+ years more experience and his force abilities were seconded only to sidious beside sidious he was the most powerful being in the galaxy
Lol extremely doubtful. Vader would take this. He actually has tactful and strategic experience. However, Anakin lacks it. Vader has a wide variety of technics, Anakin lacks it. The only thing Anakin is good at is being cocky and being a bit better at the force than Vader.
+Madara Uchiha yes he did hold back considering vader moments after the fight saved Luke from palpatine and in the empire strikes back vader when talking to sidious vader is the one to suggest turning Luke to the darkside and vader when ever he met Luke he always tried to turn him to the darkside.
Lilith Silveira that is true but the movies arent the only source that he and other people that do these versus series' draw from. you have to factor in the video games, books, comics, etc where suited vader is more of a threat than what he appears to be in the movies.
To be fair, Vader seemed slow in the original trilogy because of the choreography of the time as compared to the choreography of the prequels, which began depending less on good writing and more of flashy fights. Vader could be crazy fast and agile when he wanted, as shown in the comics and novels.
+Shadow Nightmare Fredbare NO, NO, NO! HE AIN'T FREAKING ANAKIN! HE IS DARTH VADER BEFORE THE SUIT FIGHTING DARTH VADER USING THE SUIT! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
Antoine Bandele No.. No better in the force more experienced.. And before watching.. I'm gonna to stand with non suit vader ! Ha younger.. Ha I was thinking to the alternate version were anakin kill obiwan.. In any case Vader is mind distabilized by Padme in his combat with Obiwan... If he wasn't Obiwan will have any chance of wining !!!
Baptiste Cellier The state of Vader's mind in fighting Obiwan on Mustafar certainly hampered him in that fight, but Obi-Wan's Soresu gave him a strong lightsaber-dueling advantage over Anikan's Djem So. I also think people dramatically underestimate Obiwan's skill with the force, all because of one or two lines in the prequels, particularly Yoda suggesting Obiwan couldn't take on Sidious. That maybe true, but that doesn't mean Obi-Wan wasn't one of the three or four most powerful force users in the galaxy, right in the conversation with Anakan -- who never was able to master his powers before Order 66. Anikan may have had more innate potential than Obiwan, but Obiwan actually worked at it -- and was every bit Anikan's match in the Clone Wars era. The differences in the outcomes in the big fights the two had (Dooku defeating Obi-Wan; Anikan defeating Dooku; Obi-Wan defeating Anikan) has more to do with light saber forms than anything else IMO -- with Makashi having an advantage over Soresu, Djem So having an advantage over Makashi and Soresu having an advantage over Djem So. It's Rock Paper Scissors in light saber forms, and all logically makes sense. Makashi, quick and precise, can cut through Soresu's defense; Djem So can force a Makashi user off balance and into mistakes because their form can't is about precision, not able to handle the fast and powerful counters; Soresu, however, is more than a match in fending off Djem So -- its economy of motion a perfect match for the wild strikes of Djem So, until it tires the Djem So user out. So, yes, I think Obi-Wan won that fight on Mustafar fair and square, and likely would have won it even if Anakin wasn't consumed by Padme's 'betrayal.' It wasn't until Vader mastered his force abilities in his suit that he became talented enough to have a distinctive edge over Obi-Wan, able to overcome Obi-Want's advantage in light saber styles. Hence Obi-Wan's sacrifice on the Death Star, so Luke & Co could get away.
Ryeguy123a Technicaly if you master your art at the perfection there is no paper rock scissors... Bt I'm not gonna to desagree with you this Vader was a quite hyped.. But you have to admit he had more potential than cyber Vader.
Antoine Bandele Better with the Force is a somewhat broad way to put it. Mace, as well as several of the experienced masters, would have had far better control over his Force powers, in both subtle and direct ways. In terms of raw potential, Anakin surpasses any other Force user in history, with the only possible exceptions being the Father, Son, and Daughter, although these 3 beings are essentially manifestations of the Force itself and as such don't really count as far as I'm concerned. This potential, however, was never fully reached. He could have become a Force user of such power and ability that he would have completely eclipsed any and all others, including characters such as Yoda and Palpatine alike, and would have been able to overpower them in any direct Force contest. An example of "overpowering" can be found when Yoda faces Dooku. He redirects Dooku's lightning twice, after which he shows the absolutely futility of the attack by taking the energy and dissipating/absorbing it entirely, something that requires a much higher degree of power than simple redirection.
I disagree. Anakin was much faster and more agile, and if a mildly trained Luke defeated Darth Vader, I can't see Anakin losing. Arrogance and over confidence doesn't make someone badly trained, just prone to mistakes.
DDuMas Vader was emotionally conflicted, and neglected to make any use of his force powers against luke. Anakin is certainly more agile, but the difference in sheer raw speed isn't big. Also, with this being pre-suit vader, he isn't going to be fighting as well as he did as Anakin Skywalker.
DDuMas You are also forgeting the fact, since Lord Vader got to know Luke is his son, he never wanted to kill him. So with awareness of the Rule of two and knowing he cannot defeat the Emperor himself before seducing Luke to his side, there was only one place for a new Sith apprentice. So he wanted to sacrifice himself for his son which would replace him. He let himself to be defeated by Luke. When Luke refused to join the Dark side and Emperor wanted to kill him, he finally rebeled against his master saving his only son again.
FraterSinistrus A Darth wouldn't care about family relations. He only ever wanted to turn him or kill him. Right up until the point he turned, himself.
I agree. While freshly-turned Anakin was a powerhouse, ultimately he was still only a journeyman of the force. Darth Vader was a true master of his art. A master usually outdoes an adept...that's why they're called masters. It would be a close fight to be sure, and if you fought them in duels say 10 times, Anakin would no doubt win a few just because the older Vader is still human and can make mistakes, but I'd still say something like 7 or 8 out of the 10 old Vader would win.
Antoine Bandele kinda wrong for anakin to lose. he killed many masters during jedi ivasion, and they were in large groups fighting him. he is considered the most powerful jedi killer ever
elelia booce Yes, but they weren't older, more experienced and tempered versions of himself. Plus there are things a Sith would do that a Jedi wouldn't (I would think, anyway lol), so a Sith vs. Sith fight could be VERY different. I think the assessment that either could win but the majority would go to cybernetic Vader is a fairly accurate one and in no way lessens younger Vader's ability. No matter who wins, I don't think the victor will just walk away unscathed. lol
+Antoine Bandele Not bad. However, I think you way overestimat how well cybernetic Vader could counter pre-suit Vader's lightsaber attacks. Anakin was so fast by the end of ROTS that Palpatine himself would've had a hard time keeping up with him. I personally don't think cybernetic Vader could've moved fast enough to match, let alone outdo, Anakin's strikes - he would've been simply overwhelmed. What makes you think that cybernetic Vader could ever move fast enough to counter Anakin at the end of ROTS? Even if he does know the fighting style because of his own past experience, he is so much slower as a duelist than Anakin was. Furthermore, if Luke at the end of ROTJ could defeat him (regardless of whether he was emotionally conflicted about killing his son), ROTS Anakin, I believe, could as well.
sorry but you guys do know that suit vader was pretty fast not as fast as pre suit vader but fast enough he could counter anakin plus he could pull from any lightsaber form obi wasn't the fastest but he could keep up with anakin so to say that vader couldnt is kinda bullshit
RiseLord Vader21 Pre Suit Vader had difficult beating one Jedi Master during his siege against the Jedi temple while losing to Obi-Wan. Cyber Vader slaughter two Jedi Masters and Knights at once at the beginning of Order 66 (Both being book references of course). I'm inclined, personally of course, to believe that this result would remain the same should the two have met in a parallel battleground.
Lol no. Lukes force abilities would be hampered because of padme , she wasent a force sensitive. Anaking was more powerful , and luke got VERY little training, ani trained since he was 10. Vader allowed luke to win
I recall in one of Antoine’s videos (although I’m sure it was way after this) he showed a clip showing George Lucas talking about the Prequel Trilogy being the prime of the Jedi and the Original Trilogy being old men in terms of fighting. Seeing as this was a Legends matchup where Lucas is still authority unlike in the new Disney Canon, it should be obvious who between them wins.
“There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe-the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.” - George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001 “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.” - George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005 Ultimate authority on legends continuity my a$$
@@Wes_Bradley-Taubner In that exact second quote it literally says “they try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible”, what I said is still true.
@@emelem6858 Dafuq? They TRY to make it consistent chronologically, " but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”. Legends Continuity is a completely different continuity from G-Canon. George Lucas's quotes are absolute when talking about G-Canon, which is only for his movies and TCW. Legends went off in their own direction and have their own powerscaling. They try to make it as consistent with Lucas as possible, but that doesn't mean Lucas's statements are the end all be all of Legends. George Lucas literally said “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world". How can George Lucas be the end all be all of a continuity he admits to knowing nothing about? Star Wars fans (especially Legends fans) need to learn how to formulate their own opinions and arguments based on the feats and abilities shown in the Legends continuity. You can't just use George Lucas as some instant "Word of God" when doing Legends discussions cause Lucas's statements are only relevant when talking about G Canon. Legends continuity is basically a different franchise, so feats and abilities >>>>>>>> Lucas statements.
@@Wes_Bradley-Taubner >Legends Continuity is a completely different continuity from G-Canon. No theyre not. The Essential Reader's Companion (2012) specficially underscores Lucas' Word of God' authority, "As always, a story line direct from George Lucas trumps publishing continuity," G-Canon IS a part of the Expanded Universe Continuity. ""A common critique of the Expanded Universe is its size-no one. some say, should have to consume that much media to get the full Star Wars story In fact. the six Star Wars movies have always been the core of the saga, and the only absolutely essential parts to being a fan. But most ot the EU is part of the broader story too. Leland Y. Chee. the keeper or Lucasfilm's Holocron-an internal continuity base-has his own way of differentiating among all the different sources: G-CANON (FOR 'GEORGE LUCAS*') Made up only of the six Star Wars movies and unpublished internal notes trom Lucas or the movie production department. C-CANON (FOR -CONTINUITY) Just about anything created by authors: so that includes most of the Expanded Universe. S-CANON (FOR SECONDARY) Used for older published materials created when there was tess attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. IF it gets referenced someplace else, it moves up to C-canon, It also can include video game-play mechanics. "" **-Source: Star Wars Insider 101** G-Canon (AKA the movie canon) is placed higher over C-Canon (AKA most of the EU). Even S-Canon has a conditional parameter where if they get referenced in C-Canon, it "moves up", meaning there's a clear hierarchy in place. >George Lucas literally said “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world". How can George Lucas be the end all be all of a continuity he admits to knowing nothing about? Because George, as the creator of Star Wars, obviously isn't beholden to the EU. But the EU, as outlined above, absolutely is. He doesn't have to care or know about a continuity for that same continuity to have him as the end all be all. >Star Wars fans (especially Legends fans) need to learn how to formulate their own opinions and arguments based on the feats and abilities shown in the Legends continuity. >You can't just use George Lucas as some instant "Word of God" when doing Legends discussions cause Lucas's statements are only relevant when talking about G Canon. Legends continuity is basically a different franchise, so feats and abilities >>>>>>>> Lucas statements. As outlined above, G-Canon is part of EU and is the most important part of it. Feats and abilities are obviously important, but if WoG is explicitly stated to be this important then there's a point where making a claim for something that goes against it to an extreme degree leans more towards headcanon. Though obviously when in comes to the actual original Legends characters, that's where feats and abiltiies come in and are placed at presumably the upmost priority, but when concerning the aspects that Lucas IS involved in, it still takes place within the bubble of the EU and thus G-Canon takes effect.
@@emelem6858 A. “””No theyre not. The Essential Reader's Companion (2012) specficially underscores Lucas' Word of God' authority, “”” Again, this is only with regards to G-Canon. Legends Continuity is just a bunch on non canon stories that are based on Lucas’s works. They went off in their own direction and Lucas straight up admits that he doesn’t read Legends material and he doesn’t know anything about Legends. As he described it, “That’s a different world than my world”. How tf can Lucas be the end all be all about a star wars world that isn’t his own and that he knows nothing about? His statements aren’t the end all be all when talking about Legends. Feats and abilities matter way more than Lucas statements because Lucas doesn’t know enough about the non canon material to give a WoG statement for. Which makes sense because Legends was always non canon, so Lucas didn’t need to know everything about Legends star wars. In Lucas’s canon for example, Anakin may be a Tier 9 duelist and a tier above Yoda, Mace and Sidious, but based on Legends feats, yoda, mace and sidious are at the very least on par with Anakin due to a variety of factors such as superior feats, mastery of all 7 forms, vaapad, much greater amount of dueling experience and refinement, superior accolades, etc. With legends Star Wars debates, feats, abilities and accolades >>> Lucas statements. B. “””"As always, a story line direct from George Lucas trumps publishing continuity," “”” That has nothing to do with Lucas’s statements being the end all be all with regards to Legends power scaling. That statement is about Lucas’s STORIES taking prime importance over other stories. So obviously the movies and shows > comics, novels and games. The ROTS film, novelization and comic version all have some inconsistencies and differences, so the film is deemed the most important one and has higher status in canon than the novel and comic (only the novel and comic aren’t canon in the first place because legends continuity is all non canon). His stories (ie the films and TCW) take importance over the alternative material. In no way does this mean that Lucas’s statements are 100% factual when talking about Legends continuity, especially when the legends material contradicts soooo many of his statements. C. “””G-Canon IS a part of the Expanded Universe Continuity. “”” What that means is Lucas’s stories do take place within the Legends continuity, which is obvious. Originals, prequels, TCW movie, TCW seasons 1-6, those are all G-Canon stories that exist within Legends continuity. That doesn’t mean that Lucas’s dozens of contradictory statements are WoG for Legends debates, only solely G-Canon debates. Legends is a series of non canon stories based on Lucas’s works, so they can make tons of characters more powerful than Sidious or more skilled than Anakin. G-Canon exists within the Legends continuity and the Disney Canon continuity because they’re like the immovable objects of star wars. Just because Lucas’s stories exist within Legends continuity doesn’t mean his highly self contradictory statements (that are often times heavily contradicted by the feats in the lore) are the end all be all when talking about Legends characters. D. Pretty much everything you discuss regarding Star Wars Insider ties back to my point B. Lucas’s stories take prime importance over the comics and novels that often times contradict his films. When there’s differences between what happens in the TPM novel and film for example, the film is the more accurate depiction because Lucas’s stories take precedence over everything else. Just because Lucas’s stories take precedence over the other material doesn’t mean that Lucas’s contradictory statements are the end all be all when talking about Legends versions. Lucas’s stories (films and shows) have the highest importance out of all other material. That doesn’t mean his statements do. Lucas is just one of many storytellers who has added to the EU. The non canon stories can still make their own stories that don’t have to align with Lucas’s rules.
FYI: Your little clip at 9:07 about absorbing lightsaber blows. The reason she took that blow with her hands isn't because she was absorbing the blow with the force. It was because she had cartosis gloves one, which are un-able to be pierced by a lightsaber.
I disagree with this, this is basically Pre-suit Vader vs Count Dooku all over again. Anakin would win, not Darth Vader. You didn't take mobility into argument where Pre-suit Vader's style is swift and powerful. Vader is too slow, he wouldn't be able to keep up. In which is one of the main reasons why Dooku lost to Anakin, regardless of Dooku's experience. Vader tried mind tricks against Luke, who wasn't even that great of a duelist and got plummeted, obviously being shown that he lacks quick reflexes and high mobility to keep up with someone younger than him. Plus, Anakin is much more skilled with a light saber than Luke. Ontop of that, Anakin can use Force lightning. One of Darth Vader's biggest weaknesses. I'm sorry but, I just don't see Vader winning. Yeah, he was more experienced but so was Dooku who also fell to Anakin. Obi-wan was more experienced but was getting tossed around the entire fight against Anakin like a ragdoll. Not only that but Sidious sought to replace Darth Vader for a reason opposed to his former, non-mechanical suited version. His potential was cut short in his suit. Vader was more versed but he lacked the competent mobitlity and speed to be on par with Anakin, his defenses would surely fall. 7 Times out of 10 I'd have to give the win to Anakin.
+x D i v i n e--- Anakin has never been shown via a canon source using lightening. If you're referencing the video game I do not believe that counts. He never had time to learn any real dark side abilities other than force choke which is just basic telekinesis focused on the throat. HE was Vader for a few hours before being crippled by ObiWan. After that his cybernetics made lightening impossible( more like a really bad idea) for him to use. If anything I could support this by bringing up his fight with Obi Wan. When both were disarmed and doing hand to hand combat, a stream of force lightening would have ended the fight quickly. Im not saying Anakin wasn't capable of lightening, he just never had a chance to learn.
Kyle messenger of pain/Darth Umbra Vader has also lost to someone comparable in speed and LESS experienced than Anakin such as Luke himself. If Vader tried any mind tricks against Anakin, he'd have a bigger problem on his hands than he did with Luke.It would be akin to what happened to Dooku.
The reason to why Vader lost to Luke was because he never wanted to fight him. At least read between the lines or go re watch the movie. He wanted Luke to be spared.
The verdict is weird. It says cybernetic vader is outdone by presuit but then says suit wins. But canonically presuit vader was so powerful that obi wan was the only character that could beat anakin and just because he knew him so well, but also he would have beat obi if he hadnt retreated or used the forbidden technique
Vader's taunt Vader: You are a disappontment young Skywalker the fans love me. You are a moody easily tempered child with a very wanting sense of humor. I am the face of this franchise, a hero and icon to millions. You are a serial killer with a lightsaber....I can't believe I was ever you!
I find it stupid how people use ABC logic to refer to more body mass and therefore more "midichlorians" as being more powerful. Look at Yoda, he has less ""midichlorians" per cell as Anakin and a total body mass of only 1/3 of Anakin. Yet he is so much more powerful than Anakin. With this in mind, Vader was about 2/3 of his original body mass post suit but due to his training through Sidious he learnt how to utilise what power he had left to the full and thus became more skilful in the force than he'd ever been. If it wasn't for his suit's physical hinderance and susceptibility to lighting he could have even challenged Sidious. Just because he had a greater potential pre suit doesn't make him anymore powerful than what he became post suit. If you don't understand that, think of it like a big kid playing sport who is faster and stronger naturally than the other kids and he becomes arrogant and doesn't try his hardest. By chance, one of the smaller kids trains really hard to become a big rig and fills his potential. Although the big kid could have been really good, the small kid makes up for his lack of size and fulfils his potential thus overcoming the big kid.
Captain McNuggets No. Not so in this particular case. For starters, you are wrong because George Lucas himself has stated that Vader's loss of body mass is congruent to his loss of Force strength, due to a loss of midi-chlorians. You can't compare Anakin/Vader to Yoda, or any other alien Jedi for that matter, who isn't also human. Those respective species' DNA and blood cell structuring is much different than a human's internal biology. It was stated by one of the authors in one of the various Star Wars novels (can't remember which exactly right off the top of my head, but I think maybe it was 'Darth Plagueis' during one of his analyses on the unique properties of midi-chlorians) that Yoda's Force abilities were unique in that his species' prolonged lifespan allowed him to slowly build up his midi-chlorian count. Whereas human blood cells are constantly breaking down and being replenished all the time, Yoda's biology didn't quite follow the same process. After a certain age Yoda stopped losing the blood cells in his body that housed midi-chlorians, and would only add to them by generating new ones. In other words, let's say 3 out of every 10 blood cells in Yoda contained midi-chlorians. After a certain age, he only lost the 7 blood cells not possessing midi-chlorians, and replacing them with another set of 3 out of 10 midi-chlorian laced blood cells. Naturally, those older cells would weaken with age much as Yoda himself would during his lifetime, but still, that's one hell of a biological advantage to have. Consequently, Yoda's midi-chlorian count gradually built up within him over time to keep him at peak strength levels. As a human, Anakin/Vader didn't have that unique benefit. If 4 out of every 10 of his blood cells were midi-chlorian cells, he'd still lose all 10 and replace them with the same 4 out of 10 cells no matter what.
Yeah but at the end of the day he lost midicloriams. So yes he is still powerful but he could have definitely used those few million midicloriams he lost.
+ROBLOX Attack on Titan Tactics only loss against brute force when the force is much stronger. Vader and Anakin, being the same person, are to similar from their force levels. I would also agree that Vader wins!
Young Vaders only down falls was his arrogance and ego, for example he kept toe to toe with obi wan and doku, if he was more mature i have no doubt he would win.
Any hang ups that Anakin had was because he was a Jedi his entire life. Even if Anakin had the ability to use Force Lightning earlier in his life as a Jedi, the Jedi Order would never condone his use of it. They would restrict him from using it at all times, even in combat. Therefore, it wasn't because he was lazy, or didn't bother to practice. He could only go as far as the Jedi would ALLOW him to go. Even if Anakin one day said, "Hey guys look !! I can create life from nothing !! and can resurrect the dead !! " The Jedi Council would not be pleased. They would hold him back as they have done his entire career as a Jedi. They would attempt to control the power and tell Anakin when he could, or could not use the new found power. Darth Sidous told Yoda, "The boy (Pre Suit Vader) will become more stronger then either of us." That's pretty important ! Anakin hadn't been a Sith for too long (Several Weeks), and Sidious had already felt he would surpass him. I honestly feel that Pre Suit Vader is in a tier of his own, and Cyber Vader wouldn't hold a candle to him. Given 6 month to a year, and Pre Suit Vader would be doing crazy shit only seen in Force Unleashed as Star Killer. Two Years of training and he would be on par with Sidious. The only thing stopping his progress is other people. Sidious wouldn't allow Anakin to progress too fast either. If Sidious was dumb enough to give Anakin full access to all of the Sith Knowledge, Sidious would be outmatched and dead in 2 years.
TheTruthIsGonnaHurt The Jedi's teaching was a part of it. But a large part of it came from Anakin himself. He felt he didn't need to learn that much from the Jedi. Anakin was a darksider three-four days before getting burnt. The *potential* of pre-suit Vader was above cybernetic Vader. But in actuality, he was unrefined. Within those few days, he had no formal training from Sidious on how to use the dark side properly. He was merely set loose. Starkiller, and his abilities, is overrated. When you really look deep into his Force abilities they were not extraordinary. I agree with Sidious being outmatched in a span of 2 years or less.
Antoine Bandele You say 'he [Anakin] felt he didn't need to learn that much from the Jedi', yet I don't think that was true. He may have been twisted with his view of their politics, but he felt like they were holding him back rather than not needing to learn from them. Anakin wanted to progress too fast, too far.
TheTruthIsGonnaHurt The Jedi only use the force for defence. I think the masters dabbled in breaking some of those rules, while using some dark forces without anger, but I might be wrong with that one.
Antoine Bandele Obi Wan scoffed at Anakin, saying he practiced his lightsaber so much he thinks he can rival Master Yoda as a Swordsman. This statement proves Anakin wasn't lazy. Anakin was ALWAYS practicing, and when he wasn't practicing he was doing "friendly competitions" with Obi Wan, or Ahsoka. When he wasn't doing that, he was on the front lines getting real life experience. In MMO terms, Anakin was a "Power Grinder", and he was hell bent on trying to get to level 50 in the shortest amount of time possible. Another scoffing remark Obi Wan would say about Anakin was he, "Always on the move.." Anakin was a guy that could not sit still for too long. He didn't like boring, long winded council debates, or doing things that restricted his time, like training younglings. Anakin would listen enough to get the basics of whatever the Jedi tried to teach him, whether it was Lightsaber training, or Force abilities, and then he would run with it. However, let me stress this point, once he learned the basics fundamentals, he would practice with it all the time, even when he shouldn't have too, or even if it was not appropriate. Such as using the Force to pick up fruit, or Force Lifting an object on a table while waiting around. He was a guy that was always using his abilites, and once he learned a new one, he couldnt help himself he had to use it all the time even when it was wrong to do so, such as Force Choke.
DDuMas That gives you some insight into why Anakin held a grudge against the Jedi Council. Why should Mace Windu be allowed to dabble with the Darkside, but Anakin can't !? One can argue Windu had more life experience, was a team player, or simply proven himself more capable as a Jedi. Regardless of the reasons, they're all just opinions, and those opinions were not valid enough reasons for Anakin. Anakin viewed the people giving the opinions were not suitable of judging him, because they couldn't do what he could do with the Force. The only person Anakin really respected was Yoda. Kind of hard not to respect a guy that has lived 900 years, trained all Jedi in the Jedi Council, Powerful Swordsman, and a Powerful Force User. However for everyone else, including Obi Wan, he gave them respect on a simplistic level. "Oh you are nice to me, so I will be nice to you." "Oh you are a Jedi Master, it is customary to bow when greeting one, so I bow, but I am actually better then you." "Oh you are a Jedi Youngling, that thinks I am cool, I guess you are okay, but don't bother me." That is not deep valued respect, that is going through the motions. Anakin respected Power, and Yoda was the only one that truly fit the bill. So Anakin played along more out of respect for Yoda. So if Yoda says listen to the others and follow their commands, he did so to a point, but you can see those commands deteriorating rapidly the more Anakin didn't value or respect who was giving the commands. Which is why he always disobeying the Council.
In the Revenge of the Sith novel when Vader wakes up in the suit and crushes everything, You know the part with "NOOOOOO"? He was trying to crush Sidious too but his machine body made him so much weaker than before. He was still strong but was far below his previous peak.
That is correct and is also stated within the video. But over time, Vader sharpened that knife to a needle point. Instead of using the Force solely as a blunt instrument, he started to poke holes in his opponent's defenses.
I agree with the outcome, but I do not agree with 2 of the 3 rounds. I disagree with the Physical Abilities and Force Abilities conclusions. Your main reason for pre-suit Vader winning the Physical Abilities round is because he has a high tolerance for pain. What doesn't make any sense to me is that you didn't acknowledge that suited Vader's pain tolerance is even greater. If anything, the only physical advantage pre-suit Vader has is he is more mobile. Suited Vader is tougher and quite a great deal stronger. In regards to each of their Force Abilites, Suited Vader should have gotten the edge. Through his feats in the Force in the canon, he has shown to be more powerful (through greater understanding of the Force) than pre-suit Vader.
I know it has little to do with this matchup, at what level would you consider Kenobi's Soresu be in terms of mastery with the following criteria in mind? Proficiency = Understanding and ability to use the form practically in combat. Mastery: Advanced practitioner of the form having a preference for and extensive experience with it. Specialization: The forms is not only mastered, but the backbone of the user's entire combat style (Much like Dooku with Makashi in that it was all he used). At first, I though mastery, but reconsidered when I learned Windu believed Kenobi to be the greatest master of Soresu in his day. However, I still think it would be unfair to give him specialization in a game for example because it would give him specialization in Soresu, mastery of Ataru, and proficiency in Shien while Dooku would only have specialization in Makashi albeit superior force powers. I have made a battlefield style of star wars game for my brothers and this detail bothered me. Any insights?
this is bullcrap it's all hypothetical Anakin's young self has better physical abilties like you said right he aslso has more speed he is also is good with Soresu and jimso and the speed and strength would tire Darth Vader in his suit
+JobeMinacum I feel like it would've been an interesting turn of events if they made the prequels where at some point in ROTS after he turned to the dark side, Anakin beat Obi Wan to force him to retreat (explaining Obi Wan being alive and non-mutilated in the originals) and then tried to turn on Sidious, but Sidious trashes him and mutilates him into the monster he became.
refinedfriend That's a very good point, I never thought of that. But it makes sense. Sidous wanted Vader to be just his apprentice, and didn't want him to surpass him and kill him.. so it makes sense. Yeah, screw the whole "Obiwan beats Vader on a planet of lava" shit. That ending had to be the worst part of the triology.. I mean seriously, we just saw Dooku thrash Obi Wan and throw him around like a rag doll and then Anakin killed him with ease.
+JobeMinacum Lucas had that one planned from a very early point in the OT. Of what little was known of Anakin's history, we knew "Obi-Wan knocked him into a volcano." Close.
+refinedfriend wouln't work, remember the dialouge in EP 4! Vader says he was just an apprentice last time but now he is the master. This indicates That he lost their last battle.
+Antoine Bandele This is the first video of yours I have seen I personally really like how you completely come up with how the exact fight would happen, its really cool I love it!
No The force Darth Vadar (empire) admits is huge, he is so good at TK he can force choke people star systems aways and blow away at ats real the comics, pre suit vadar doesnt have the force shield to handle post suit vadar force choke stab
+Kevin Walker There's no way, post suit Vader force abilities are at least on par with pre suit Vader. As he is 8/10 the power of Sidious. That's not even mentioning that young Vader wasn't much of a tactician. He relied on his ferocious strength and speed to over power most of his opponents. In terms of strength his on also on par with him because of his prosthetics. Post suit Vader's defense may not be as legendary as Obi-wan, but it's still great nonetheless. He's defense will buy him enough time to tactically plan a way to use young Vader's recklessness against him.
Kevin Walker Agility and speed is not everything. Many pro Boxers has destroyed masters of Kung Fu and Karate despite being far less agile and less fast. Vader has fought foes of equal speed and agility to pre suit Vader and won.
Clone wars comics show Anakin know and use many time Lighstaber throws, more impressive than Vader. Left that out. He also used Force Scream before in rage. Left that out. Also here is a fun fact, Anakin fought and defeated the best duelist of his era. Guys like Dooku, Grievous, Ventress, and would beaten Obi Wan if not for the plot device of Padme driving him over the edge, fighting like crap, which the novel states as well.
King Gojira Sure saber throw is something he could use but did not often employ. Force Scream isn't a consistent feat. Anakin fought on par with Dooku until a 2v1 scenario against him where is focus was helped along by Sidious. Before that they were equals or Dooku wins solidly against him. But Anakin is certainly not leaps and bounds greater than Dooku. Anakin has never faced Grievous. Anakin only defeated Ventress when she barely had any Sith training (CW micro series). Asajj is the one who gave Anakin his eye scar. When they fought, her biggest enemy was herself when she was far more competent. I agree on paper Anakin should beat Obi-Wan pretty solidly if it had not been for his lacking tunnel vision.
Antoine Bandele She may have given him that scar but he still kicked her ass by tying her up in those wires and throwing her off that building. He got that scar because he got reckless when Ventress threatened his wife.
Vetle Weme Anakin Skywalker vs Yoda wouldn't be the landslide that many people would think it would, as Darth Tyranus duelled Yoda and held his own, and Anakin was proven to be a match for Tyranus. The winner would still be obvious, though.
Wow! What a cool video. I think what will really help anyone who has doubts about the cybernetic Vader is a newer film starring him. That way, we can finally see the version in a modern setting that isn't hampered by older tech like it was in the 70s and 80s. Keep up the good work!
sidious said that vader would become more powerful than both he and yoda. The only reason this didn't happen was because he lost his organic body. What would happen? He'd be the strongest sith or jedi in the universe
I have to disagree. Luke Skywalker defeated Vader with even less refinement, experience and overall power. Despite Anakin's arrogance and temper, Luke was equally blind in his battle with Vader after sufficient taunting. Not only is Anakin (younger Vader) better trained, battle hardened and experienced than Luke, but he's also considerably more powerful. I agree with Vader's tactical superiority and greater skill in saber combat, but we've already seen where that lead in a fight with a faster more powerful opponent. Anakin in his prime would totally beat Luke as he was during Return of the Jedi, and most certainly would beat his crippled future self.
Ah but you are observing Darth Vader as a 43-47 year old man out of practice. I was observing Cybernetic Vader as he was at age 25-27 when he was completing the Jedi Purge. Also, Vader was conflicted when fighting Luke. Luke could feel the conflict with him. He was not fighting as he was in Empire Strikes Back with the full force of the dark side.
I would think that Vader would have improved since then, having had more time to adapt to his cybernetics. There was never any indication of his health degrading by any noticeable amount between those times. He was conflicted in both movies because he knew even then that Luke was his son, however, Luke's skill greatly improved between Empire and Return, if anyone was holding back, it was him. He fought defensively the whole battle and relented several times to try and talk Vader out of the Dark Side. The second Luke started trying to win Vader got dominated into a corner and hammer down. Anakin was trained in the Jedi Temple from the age of nine, travelled throughout the galaxy on battle filled adventures as Obi Wan's Padawan, and fought in clone wars right up until becoming Darth Vader, where as Luke was a moisture farmer all the way until he was 19 and hadn't been in a single fight. That's a pretty vast difference. If Luke could beat Vader so profoundly after a few years training, just imagine the asswhooping Anakin would have dealt out.
That's not true at all in the Star Wars universe. Older Count Dooku would completely own his younger self just as badly as he owned numerous other Jedi. The fact is that mastery over the Force enables one to augment their speed and strength far beyond the normal limitations of ordinary athletes, so the same rules don't apply. If anything, Vader's use of the force would have improved since that time, as well as his adaptation to being mostly cybernetic. Which also raises another point, he's more machine than man, his artificial respiratory system doesn't get old. As for Vader's fight with older Obi Wan, let's think that over for a second, is it Vader past his prime? Orrrr is it a badly choreographed scene with a dude who has no stunt training and can barely see out of a helmet?? If that battle were directed with today's affects and choreography teams, you'd be seeing something VERY different. Gotta think over your arguments dude, because that one was pretty obvious.
It doesn't, not at all. Vader was 45 and there are plenty of people even in real life who can outperform younger athletes based simply on their genes and or fitness routines.45 is nothing for a Force user, especially a strong one like him. Even with the cybernetics, Vader is still extremely powerful. Yoda and Vader aren't even comparable in age. Yoda is the equivalent of a 110 year old human, in terms of age deterioration. He lost to Palpatine because he less powerful and because there was a shift in the balance of the Force. He was meant to lose the fight, and he knew it. By less powerful, I mean fewer midichlorians. Qui-Gon lost because he less powerful and not as conditioned as Maul, age had nothing to do with it. Jinn's life and training were cushy by comparison to Maul's. Anakin defeated Dooku because, once again, he innately more powerful, and because he used Form V combat against him, the perfect counter to Dooku's Form II. Vader and Obi Wan were fighting in a contained space, so even if you put choreography aside, there wasn't much room for epic acrobatics. Once again, not age. To further the point, the younger, more athletic Obi Wan was in better shape than Dooku or Palpatine, yet was clearly no match for either of them. Dooku was even older than Ben Kenobi, yet still fought with incredible athletic prowess, and could perform flips and jumps. Yoda could have cleaned Anakin or Obi Wan's clock too despite an EXTREME age difference. Anakin would have grown more powerful in time but was only 23, compared to the 900 year old Yoda. Midichlorians and development of one's knowledge of the Force far outweigh physical age factors, especially since Vader isn't even that old. Anakin is simply more powerful because his body was pure at the time. If Vader were purely organic, (a 45 year old Anakin) we'd see a whole new universe.
I didn't like my own comment lol. I didn't put likes on any comments here. I think it's safe to say that Vader's skills had only grown since that time and rest is a matter of choreography. As I pointed out in previous comments, Vader was not conflicted about turning Luke to the Dark Side of the Force, as he believed in its power and wanted his son to have it. He believed it was the only way for them both to survive. The only conflict was that he didn't want him to become Sidious' next victim. Hence why he worked quite hard to turn Luke. It was only when Palpatine tried to kill him that he finally broke free.
I have to say, I wish you had some sort of talent in animation, as I would love to see the duel you've described here (and in other places) in some sort of show.
this was interesting! I thought you were leaning toward the younger Vader. I would agree with pretty much everything. I do believe the suited Vader would lose a hand or arm but ultimately that wouldn't matter because his arms and hands are cybernetic. So yeah, suited Vader wins by decapitation.
wolfmaster7 Yes he has. The dark woman, the Darth Maul clone, Galen Marek and the Starkiller clone are perfect examples. Vader hunted Jedi for decades and fought some of the best and during these many years speed and agility was only a trouble for him at the start but once he adapted to his suit and created a new style it was never a issue for him and he fought against and beat fast and agile fighters with ease
I beleive Vader beats Anakin physically, martially and Force-wise. And for those who think Anakin's speed can give him an advantage, Vader proved himself to be able to deal with far faster opponents than him several times.
@@omeganator9926 Says who ? Vader managed to keep up with a fast enemy like Ahsoka and showed he can go faster than people give him credit for in Kenobi
@@professionalgamer6522 Well, in theory, the non-cybernetic Vader would have been more powerful as he would have been able to generate force lightning!
It depends on the era. Vader lost a considerable amount of his power after Mustafar and getting the suit, but was able to compensate over the years. I think Cyber Vader from the original trilogy is stronger than Pre-suit Vader in Episode III. But if Cyber Vader from the original tirlogy were to fight an alternate universe No-suit Vader where he kept his whole body all the way up to the time period of the original trilogy, No-suit would win no contest.
I would agree it he never lost his arms and legs and has his body so badly damaged that he needed the suit to survive you have been significantly more powerful more powerful then Darth Sidius and would have been able to learn force lightning without worrying about damaging his cybernetic.
I agree with the conclusion of Old beating young, I do think it would happen slightly differently, due to Youngs unrelenting offense I feel old would no longer be able to go on the offensive himself, as the fight went on young would begin to slow down as he expended his energy, around this time Old vader would start looking for an opening, his precision strikes would only require a split sencond. As younger vaders movements slowed older vader would find that perfect opening during a barrage of attacks from the younger vader finish the fight
jamaine gardner I can't say that he did but even if that is the case the speed and strength of youngs attacks would compel old to go on the defensive, I think that makes sense personally but obviously everything being said is just speculation.
the main thing about the suit was to surpass Aniken, at the time, but make sure he cannot surpass Sidious, and all the suit's flaws were intentional as Sidious knew the rule of 2 would one day have Vader turn on his master
Obi-wan Kenobi, Jedi Master and member of the Jedi Council, inter-galactically famous war general, who's mere whispers of involvement in the rebellion brought fear to the Empire.... wasn't particularly strong with the force? Really?! The Star Wars franchise has made it very, very clear that Obi-Wan Kenobi was one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. He wasn't Yoda or Mace Windu, but right below them -- and that's not a bad place to be.
All you did was list of his titles, but none of his feats. He was not. Show me an instance in which his Force wall or even his offensive combative abilities were that great.
Antoine Bandele Obi-Wan was only one of two Jedi to defeat actual Sith in his generation -- and he defeated not one, but two, including the only other Jedi who defeated a Sith, after that Jedi turned Sith. He defeated Maul as a padiwan. He also single-handidly defeated General Grevious. Like it or not, he was absolutely one of the most powerful Jedi of his time and then some. That is very clear through canon. Feel free to go back and watch Revenge of the Sith when he slices off both of Anikan's legs and one of his arms -- and goes toe to toe with him in force powers -- and say that his offensive combative abilities weren't that great. They were awesome. One of the most powerful combatants we see. Period. The only canon for Star Wars at this point, like it or not, are the movies + cartoons. In that canon, only Sidious, Yoda and Mace Windu were clearly more powerful than Obi-Wan at Obi-wan's prime, at the time of Revenge of the Sith. That puts him in good company, since Windu and Yoda were two of the most powerful Jedi ever.
Ryeguy123a His defeat of Darth Maul was clearly PIS. That was clearly a Maul victory. Also, Obi-Wan only managed to defeated Anakin because Anakin had a serious case of tunnel vision. Obi-Wan did not defeat Anakin by virtue of his skill. In the novel he clearly states that Anakin is the better fighter. He did defeat General Grievous, and that was by virtue of his skill. However, that was not by virtue of his combative Force abilities. He is one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, but not by way of his Force abilities, more for his abilities with a lightsaber. Again, your point is moot because Anakin was hindered during their fight on Mustafar. You are right about the canon, but you left one thing out. The movies and the TCW series are canon, as well as the novelizations for the movies. Not only does the Revenge of the Sith novelization clearly state that Anakin was Obi-Wan's superior, but so does Nick Gillard, the fight choreography for the prequel trilogy. Anakin is Tier-9, Obi-Wan is Tier 8. Star Wars It's All For Real: The Stunts Of Episode III Featurette Part 2 We can also see that Anakin was his superior in their fights with Dooku. In Episode II Anakin lasts much longer than Obi-Wan does. In TCW, Obi-Wan gets tossed around by Dooku but Anakin fights as his equal. And finally in Episode III Dooku nearly kills Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Anakin defeats him finally. There really is no question: Anakin > Obi-Wan. The reason they fought evenly in Episode III is that Anakin was blinded by his rage. He felt betrayed not only by his best friend, but by his wife. He was not going into that fight with a clear head. Not the same way he did when he entered the Jedi Temple, killing dozens of Jedi Knights and Masters. The fact that Anakin surpassed Obi-Wan by the time of Episode III would put him closer to the likes of Mace Windu and Yoda, rather than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Again, as I asked previously, which you have not adequately answered yet: show me an instance where Obi Wan's offensive or defensive Force powers were extraordinary. He was not a great warrior because of his Force abilities. His Force abilities were solid, but nothing more. His mastery was with the blade.
Antoine Bandele Every fictionalized fight is PIS. That is the basis of fiction, especially pulp material like Star Wars. Either we accept the fights and what took place in them as canon, or we throw out every single fictionalized fight ever (in any franchise ever) because they're all PIS. I agree that his lightsaber skills were what he was most renowned for, but he never lacked for force jumps, force pushes (in which he went toe to toe with Anikan) or manipulation of the mind, be it the Jedi mind trick, telekenisis, controlling animals, etc. There are myriad examples throughout the prequels and Clone Wars series, the best of which is when he and Anikan both hit each other with force pushes in their final duel at the same time -- and came to a draw. How is that not a measure of their capability with force powers? You may say that Anikan went into that fight flawed, but he looked pretty determined to me - and we have a history of Star Wars canon saying that rage enhances the power of the Dark Side. Meanwhile, you completely discount Obi-Wan's emotional state, in which he suspected he was one of the last two Jedi left alive -- and failed so hard that his own former apprentice was the one responsible for killing all too many Jedi. Do you really think Obi-Wan went into that fight clear headed? Given that we can't measure how much their emotional states impacted their fight, it doesn't make sense to use that as a measuring tool compared to the very clear evidence presented about their force powers during that fight -- in which they were very literally an equal match. Re: Canon, I *wish* the novels were still canon, but after Disney bought Star Wars, they declared that only the films and the cartoons are canon at this point. The fight over what's canon in Star Wars is unfortunately over -- it's just the movies and the tv series.
Ryeguy123a www.theforce.net/story/literature/Yes_The_Star_Wars_Movie_Novelizations_Are_Canon_157749.asp Del Rey Books confirmed the novelizations of the movies, including the Clone Wars, are part of the new canon. You still have not attempted to refute my other points listed in the first response, which clearly showcases Anakin's superiority. It is actually discussed that Obi-Wan does let his inner turmoil go: BEGIN CITATION: Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. . . . Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment . . . He let it go. END CITATION. But Anakin never manages it, thus leaving his judgement clouded and fighting sloppy, making stupid decisions.
I'm grasping at straws but maybe the emperor already won and decided to actualy impair Vader's ability with shitty cybernetics so he doesn't kil the emperor. Even tought the real awnser is he would probably be a lot better than malgus and young anakin if the movie had been filme chronologically.
I see all the reasons you give witch are very plausible and I thank you for them. Now the question that popped in my mind is: If the suit was substandard or hastily built to save Vader's life, why hasn't he upgraded his suit after his life was saved? Surely he must have had the ressources to do it. Also, having had a mechanical hand, he probably was aware of the possibilities in cybernetics.
Pre-Suit Vader Would Win. As You Said in Anakin Versus Galen Marek, Pre-Suit Vader (I'll Be Calling Him Anakin Without His Suit...) Would Be Able To Force Push Him In To A Rock And Anakin Could've Choked Vader, Since He Can Use The Ability "Force Choke," And Vader Would Be Forced To Either (A) Telekinetically Tap Into Anakin's Brain, Making Him Stop Using Force Choke, Or (B) Let Anakin Kill Him. Vader Would Choose Option A. And He Would Fall To The Ground, Crippled For A Few Seconds. By The Time Vader Could Get Back Up, Anakin Would Have Already Leaped To Vader, Either Stabbing His Main Control Panel, Or Decapitating Vader. Do You Agree, Antoine? Reply If You Agree Or Disagree, Anyone.
Agree with you except for the force choke, you have to be massively ( and i mean totally outclassed ) more powerful in the force to force choke another practiced user of the force without catching them off guard. Anakin was more powerful but not to the degree needed to force choke vader. If you could just force choke whenever these duels would never even happen. Force push on the other hand is quite hard to resist and vader would have a difficult time withstanding anakins push.
I think it might depend on where they are too, on Hoth Vader just has to slightly mess with the buttons on his suit while pre suit Vader needs all of the clothing.
Cyber Vader takes this one. On the basis that he HAS to use all his remaining skills, abilities, ingenuity, etc just to overcome the hindrance of the suit. This led to so much practice, refinement, development of new styles, etc. In other words, he HAS to adapt to overcome. He's finally forced to actually develop his supposed prodigious skills & abilities. Combine that with the added cybernetic power of his suit, and I'd say he's damn near unstoppable. Sure, his force powers are dissipated. But his creativity and dedication has more than made up for his shortcomings. Younger Vader ran on youth and raw ability. I tend to see him as arrogant and overconfident. Not as focused or refined. An uncut diamond. Sure he's a powerhouse, but he lost in the end. Rather embarrassingly, I might add, or at least that was what I saw in Revenge of the Sith. Necessity vs lazy genius. Fighting to live vs fighting merely out of anger. Out of 100 battles, I'd say Cybernetic Vader readily defeats Younger Vader 70-80 times. Maybe more.
Not only do I think you're right, but Cybernetic Vader would be able to goad young Vader into just about any dumb action. The only way young Vader wins is if he wins so fast that Cybernetic Vader doesn't have time to manipulate the fight.
As being both Jedi and Sith Revan has mutch more knowledge,skill and abilities then any Jedi or Sith during hes time besides the Sith Emperor.Revan also had an ability similar to Windu's shatterpoint and Vaapad would be useless cause Revan even as a Sith he didn't really seem to give into rage.I would say Darth Revan would be a very difficult opponent for Windu.
I personally think that young vader would win with the force. His raw power with something as simple as force push would break the cybernetic vader's force wall. Young vader would push the assault with a combo of quick strikes and force abilities that trump cybernetic vader's weaker, more complex force abilities.
This is gonna be a little rant but here goes. After loosing his limbs and gaining the armor, Vader dedicated more attention to developing his limited potential than he spent earlier in his life. Vader's cybernetics limited his original potential, but he never devoted the level of attention to realizing that potential before he was crippled. I always viewed the relation in power between Vader and Anakin like this: Anakin had yet to reach the height of his power by Mustafar, as he was still young. When he was injured during his duel with Obi Wan, he may have become somewhat less powerful, but he still had years to progress and become even more powerful than before he was burned. Anakin in total had 13 years as a jedi, while Vader had 19 years as a sith by A New Hope, 22 by Empire Strikes Back, and 23 by Return of the Jedi. So while if Darth Vader was "a shadow of his former self" after he was injured, he had a total of 19 years (plenty of time) to become more powerful than he currently was and to become more powerful than he was as Anakin (Pre Suit Vader). Plus he even got more advanced training as time went on and went against tougher robots as training up until Return of the Jedi. It is simple logic: if Anakin went from just a slave with potential to a proclaimed Jedi Knight in only 13 years, then surely even if he got injured, he could definitely make up for that loss in 19 MORE years. I didn't come here to start a debate or argue, I just simply wanted to say what my opinion was on the matter of Pre Suit Vader vs Suit Vader.
I think Darth Vader would win. I don't like how weak Darth Vader is than Darth Vader. We all know Darth Vader is better and more powerful than Darth Vader. I don't care what you people say Darth Vader would win in Darth Vader vs Darth Vader.
I’m dying
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lol
I disagree darth Vader would most likely lose
@@alexraileanu8990 but no I'm sorry to tell you this but no Destiny has made it very clear that Darth Vader is not the week Darth Vader from Legends with all the weaknesses Darth Vader's power with the force is so great he could tear apart Steel Bridges and make them as if they were aluminum paper
"You were a child. I am well accustomed to killing children" -Darth Vader to Anikan Skywalker
Sammy T yeah in his head but at the end Anakin defeated Vader
Gotta kill those younglings man. Especially if they ask you to save them.
*Anakin
*Anakin
@@nursesarehot5172 oops sorry I didn't see your comment
Darth Vader vs Darth Vader. The winner is... Darth Vader.
+zedfenix lol that's like setting up wii sports tennis and controlling both teams!
zedfenix He was talking about Anakin /Vader Vs
Suited Vader
zedfenix You wrote this comment 2 years ago but I disagree. Darth Vader would beat the shit out of darth vader
The Shadow and DARTH VADER would be even better than Darth Vader.
@@JDiako97 False, darth vader is more powerful than darth vader
Darth Vader would mop the floor with Darth Vader, Vader doesn't stand a chance.
Well played.
Ben Scott no I’m pretty sure Vader would easily beat Vader no contest
@@yoboytrippy1128 nah, Vader would wreck Vader.
Rollo Chairbreaker idk I think Vader is stronger
@@yoboytrippy1128 maybe, but how about Vader?
The winner would have the high ground
this^^^
You underestimate their power
Don't try it.
Haha, yeah, old Vader is like "oh no, I'm so vulnerable up here, I hope you don't like, do an angry force jump at me or something LOL"
+Booga .Boo twice the pride double the fall
Ugh, it would've been much easier to understand if you just referred to them as Anakin and Vader.
+Austin Nwachukwu That defeats the whole purpose. Anakin before he became Darth Vader fought without the Dark Side, which made his skill sets different. It would be a different vs video to have Anakin Skywalker VS Darth Vader. BTW Should be a video if Bandele hasn't made that already.
+MrButtsavage17 It should be "Lord Vader vs Darth Vader" Because when he just became Vader he were called 'Lord Vader'.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. In Episode III Darth Sidious clearly calls him Darth Vader. He is even called Darth Vader in the original Trilogy.DE ULTIMATE NEEGRO WIT NIEGGA FRENDS
MrButtsavage17 From what I remember it was "Lord Vader" he was called. Well, it was a while since I watched Star Wars so I'm probably wrong.
Everyone knows that Anakin was already officially Darth Vader before he wore the suit. Even if he never wore the suit, he would still be Vader.
imagine how much of a beast Vader would be if you took his mind experience and skillset and put that in his younger body.
devildavin Craziness!
A force god
I would be a powerful one
Imagine if he upgraded his suit like palpatine wanted
Never again use a Twilight reference in a Star Wars video.
It happened, it was an apt analogy.
+Antoine Bandele I'm certain it was, twilight fan. Your crucifixion awaits.
+WhySoComplex wtf lol. Invite me to his crucifixion lol
+WhySoComplex wtf lol. Invite me to his crucifixion lol
Ashberryvillage10 Done.
just as I suspected darth vader won
;-P
Duh
@@queenlele6193 *Bruh
Anakin: You Murder! You kill a lot of young Padawans
Vader: Do not be a foolish Skywalker, you done so! ...well, you'll done it soon
Anakin: And what makes you believe that?!
Vader: Well, that's because... *Long Breath*
...I, Am Your Future.
Diesel Prime #IfOnly
Diesel Prime Snake! You can't go changing the past like that!
Fission Mailed - Time Paradox
Diesel Prime it's like it the game Infamous
Diesel Prime aa
Would be a good idea if clone wars make an episode where anakin talks to his dark side persona as darth vader that warns him about the future
As a Martial Arts Master and having been in the Martial Arts for 45 years, I would be more afraid of the older me than the younger me. My knowledge and understanding of techniques, skills, movement, and counter movements give me so much the advantage to counter and capitalize on the younger, faster, more athletic, and stronger version of myself. I've had my share of injuries over the years, but with each injury, my techniques and getting straight to the point become more refined to a quicker finish.
+RWMA Indeed. My dad would say the same thing.
With that I guess an older Batman would defeat his younger version despite the younger being more athletic and arguably stronger than him.
@@cliff402ful Yes. Experience outranks everything, in the words of captain rex
@@lapplandkun9273 With this logic all the top UFC fighters should be 40+
@@lapplandkun9273 but when your injuried so much the injury over takes over the expirence
Remember, killing an Emperor doesnt kill an Empire.
well with both vader and sidious dying there was nobody to rule it so it was bound to end after that
+BeastUpp FFS
yeah well of course, but jar jar binks has been ruling/controlling everything from the background all along, so this was probably part of his masterplan, and honestly it's pretty clever. manipulating Vader into killing the emperor and himself, so the Empire would crumble, so he could come back into power as supreme leader Snoke of the First Order. pretty genius, but then again, that's what we've come to expect from Jar Jar.
+Tank Dempsey no, but killing an Emperor with no succession plan would likely start a civil war inside the empire and weaken it
Quite clever for an American Dempsey -Richthofen
To quote a certain pointy-eared space logic guy that passed away back in Feburary of this year, who hails from a rival franchise, whom faced off against his younger newest incarnation said the following.
"Old age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time."
+RandoGrunt Just like in Kendo! The oldest are also the best!
wouldn't skill come with experience though? as opposed to 'young and skilled', should it not be 'young and unskilled'? I believe the writers of that episode got it wrong.
+adel mebrat I see.
Well thats a terrible quote thats been proven untrue in real life. Whoever wrote sounds like an 8th grader.
+Danny HillJr The exact words of the legendary Leonard Nimoy (Spock), may he rest in peace, whom went up against his younger incarnation played by Zachary Quinto and won. Think before you act, my boy.
What’s fascinating about Vader, he didn’t entirely embrace both sides of the force. To me, this was a sign that Vader was the chosen one, because you can’t bring balance to the force, if you haven’t experienced both sides of the force.
I'd like to see Anakin at his full potential.
+Thugastrike Watch grand master Luke. He is what his father would have been like in terms of power.
+Kyle messenger of pain/Darth Umbra no Anakin would be more powerfull he would have more training and experience plus Anakin is more force sensitiv
Tobias Lundberg He was the chosen one afterall.
+Kyle messenger of pain/Darth Umbra Luke practised the Dark force for quiet some time, so Luke is probably more of a grey jedi when he hits his peak.
***** Will Luke be Kylo Ren?
People have a perception of suited Vader being slower, due to the way he moved in the original trilogy. But this isn't an accurate way of assuming such a thing. Light saber battles in the originals were simply not as quick and elegant as the prequels. Vader would have been almost just as fast.
Vader lost his left arm below the elbow, meaning only wrist speed in his left wrist and fingers would be inhibited, as his elbow is still him. He lost his legs at the lower part of the knee, meaning that a lot of his knee movement is still him, though there would be a mechanical component. His ankle speed is the big limitation.
True- Suited Vader isn't JUST as fast, though. At least, not in long periods of time. In bursts, he can move in a full sprint or sudden full power stab, but he can't just sprint and keep on charging like he could as Anakin.
FORMINCRAFTIA Where is this assumption coming from?
Bob Jenkins Just observation- you see him move quickly, and even perform acrobatics, but you never see Vader move fast for an entire battle.
FORMINCRAFTIA That's the original films though. The lightsaber battles were totally different. Besides, Vader wasn't any slower than Obi Wan in IV, and in V he doesn't need to move fast to beat Luke.
Bob Jenkins *Shrug*
Vader beats Anakin to a pulp. As Vader's about to crush his skull, Anakin then uses force whine - Vader blasted to pieces. "YOO UNDERESTAMATE MY POWWURRR."
This time... Anakin will have the High Ground xD
It's over vader I have the high ground vaders all I ain't falling for that again and force pushes anikan away
Love can't save you... Only my NEW POWERS CAN DO THATTTTT!!!11!!!
+Stuart Colman ''You underestimate my power'' was actually one of the very few Anakin lines from the prequels, It wasn't with the whiny voice but It was filled with anger and arrogance, showing how much Anakin is affected by the dark side, don't get me wrong the prequels are horrible and I hate them for ruining Anakin's story but atleast hate on the bad stuff
Vader was stronger and more agile with the suit. When he wore the suit, he had burned skin and mechanical parts in his body which diminished his abilities.
I would have given it to Pre Suit Vader for these reasons. He has use of his body as it is not hindered by the cybernetic suit. While suit Vader has more guilt than something to fight for, unsuited Vader would have something to fight for. He would fight harder so he could find a way to save Padme from dying. Pre Suit Vader also has raw emotion.
However, after watching this video, I can definitely see Suited Vader beating the unsuited one due to his tactical know how to distract, his knowledge of the multiple lightsaber forms, and his ability to survive multiple hits due to the suit. Good versus battle :)
Thanks dood
Jar Jar wins
+theMightyWebb How insensitive, you should have opened with SPOILER WARNING.
+theMightyWebb reddit.com/r/DarthJarJar
+THE DARKEST KNIGHT who knows, he might be supreme leader snoke
***** i saw the movie too, and supreme leader Snoke was just a hollogram, he might be Jar Jar
***** lol, i was just messing with you, i've seen all star wars movies and you don.t know my age, but because you're so agressive i speculate you're between 10-13 years old. Have a nice day :)
It is stated that vader's suit was purpose built to surpass his powers as anakin but to remain weaker to the emperor vader is most definitely stronger than when he was anakin.
DUE TO POPULAR DEMAND I WILL BE READING THE FORCE UNLEASHED NOVEL IN PREPARATION FOR A VERSUS SERIES BETWEEN GALEN MAREK AND SOMEONE ELSE.
VIDEO IS LIVE NOW:
Versus Series | Anakin Skywalker vs Galen Marek
lord vader I haven't completed the game or novel yet but from what people say of Galen it seems he was more powerful than Asajj.
Galen never defeated Vader in the force unleashed novel. Both 1&2
Guess what the books overrules the game. When it comes. To Canon.
galen vs jaden korr
Galen Marek AKA Starkiller vs Darth Nox (you know the Sith inquisitor from Star Wars the Old Republic game)
Old Vader beats young Vader every time...it's no contest
It really is
Anakin was much stronger than Vader.
Jason Almodovar jr Vader was physically stronger than anakin, and a better force user
@@barackyobama6435 and a better duelist mastering all (or almost) 7 forms of lightsaber combat.
@@user-oc6ol In raw power, yes, in skill and mastery, no. There's more important things that raw power.
Pre-suit would simply be too fast. He'd outspeed suit Vader.
+Matthew Quayle In other sources out side of the movies, Vader is still very fast in his suit
Non-canon now. And even then, he's not AS fast as he was.
true
+Matthew Quayle Then again, he doesn't go by the canon versions.
Kamikaze Failure Abalasismabababadan Even in the EU, Vader laments his lack of mobility in the suit and has to modify his fighting style. The last guy who stood up and fought a guy faster than him was Anakin fighting Dooku the first time, and Dooku owned him.
I honestly came to Similar conclusion when realizing how Vader cybernetics mastered so much more lightsaber styles and force abilities. What's sad is the weaknesses he gained with those cybernetics just made him more dangerous and less "carefree" about his damages, strategies, and battle as a whole
Love the intro and mini clips combined with the awesome music.
Jonathan Dean Thanks!
I disagree that suited Vader was a better duelist than Anakin/Vader. Anakin/Vader was vicious...lighting fast and aggressive. Also, he was at the very height of his Jedi prime. When suited Vader made Luke Skywalker angry in episode 6, he got his butt kicked. This is astonishing considering Luke was just ok and barely passable as a duelist. Yes, I said it fanboys. Luke sucked. He wasn't trained all of his life like Vader and the Jedi before him. He was a newby in a world of lost knowledge and limited training. Therefore, when Luke beat Vader...it was painfully obvious that Vader sucked too.
Sorry, Antoine. As far as dueling goes...it goes to Anakin/Vader. Easily. So easily.
Vader was holding back against Luke both times they fought because of his love for his son if Luke wasent vaders son then Luke would have been shredded to pieces by vader not to mention he has 40+ years more experience and his force abilities were seconded only to sidious beside sidious he was the most powerful being in the galaxy
+Josh Hamilton Or Vader simply did not want to fight luke
Lol extremely doubtful. Vader would take this. He actually has tactful and strategic experience. However, Anakin lacks it. Vader has a wide variety of technics, Anakin lacks it. The only thing Anakin is good at is being cocky and being a bit better at the force than Vader.
+Aaron Mackellar Is this actually factual though or just opinion? Like has Lucas confirmed that Vader held back against Luke?
+Madara Uchiha yes he did hold back considering vader moments after the fight saved Luke from palpatine and in the empire strikes back vader when talking to sidious vader is the one to suggest turning Luke to the darkside and vader when ever he met Luke he always tried to turn him to the darkside.
Finally, someone who knows Anakin would actually defeat Darth Vader in a lightsaber duel with no force abilities.
Where did you get that from?
Ever watch the movies where Darth Vader engages in a lightsaber duel? He's slow and power doesn't mean much if you don't have speed.
Lilith Silveira that is true but the movies arent the only source that he and other people that do these versus series' draw from. you have to factor in the video games, books, comics, etc where suited vader is more of a threat than what he appears to be in the movies.
"By ROTS, Anakin was fighting just as good as Vader, if not better." - Antoine Bandele, Anakin Skywalker Vs Luke Skywalker.
To be fair, Vader seemed slow in the original trilogy because of the choreography of the time as compared to the choreography of the prequels, which began depending less on good writing and more of flashy fights. Vader could be crazy fast and agile when he wanted, as shown in the comics and novels.
SPOILER: Vader wins.
which one Anakin or Vader
Shadow Nightmare fredbear Bruhh...
+Shadow Nightmare Fredbare NO, NO, NO! HE AIN'T FREAKING ANAKIN! HE IS DARTH VADER BEFORE THE SUIT FIGHTING DARTH VADER USING THE SUIT! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
You really telling me what to do ??😣😒😒😒😒
+josiah jenks Nah, Mace is better with the Force than Anakin is.
Antoine Bandele No.. No better in the force more experienced..
And before watching.. I'm gonna to stand with non suit vader !
Ha younger.. Ha I was thinking to the alternate version were anakin kill obiwan..
In any case Vader is mind distabilized by Padme in his combat with Obiwan...
If he wasn't Obiwan will have any chance of wining !!!
Baptiste Cellier The state of Vader's mind in fighting Obiwan on Mustafar certainly hampered him in that fight, but Obi-Wan's Soresu gave him a strong lightsaber-dueling advantage over Anikan's Djem So.
I also think people dramatically underestimate Obiwan's skill with the force, all because of one or two lines in the prequels, particularly Yoda suggesting Obiwan couldn't take on Sidious. That maybe true, but that doesn't mean Obi-Wan wasn't one of the three or four most powerful force users in the galaxy, right in the conversation with Anakan -- who never was able to master his powers before Order 66.
Anikan may have had more innate potential than Obiwan, but Obiwan actually worked at it -- and was every bit Anikan's match in the Clone Wars era. The differences in the outcomes in the big fights the two had (Dooku defeating Obi-Wan; Anikan defeating Dooku; Obi-Wan defeating Anikan) has more to do with light saber forms than anything else IMO -- with Makashi having an advantage over Soresu, Djem So having an advantage over Makashi and Soresu having an advantage over Djem So.
It's Rock Paper Scissors in light saber forms, and all logically makes sense. Makashi, quick and precise, can cut through Soresu's defense; Djem So can force a Makashi user off balance and into mistakes because their form can't is about precision, not able to handle the fast and powerful counters; Soresu, however, is more than a match in fending off Djem So -- its economy of motion a perfect match for the wild strikes of Djem So, until it tires the Djem So user out.
So, yes, I think Obi-Wan won that fight on Mustafar fair and square, and likely would have won it even if Anakin wasn't consumed by Padme's 'betrayal.'
It wasn't until Vader mastered his force abilities in his suit that he became talented enough to have a distinctive edge over Obi-Wan, able to overcome Obi-Want's advantage in light saber styles. Hence Obi-Wan's sacrifice on the Death Star, so Luke & Co could get away.
Ryeguy123a
Technicaly if you master your art at the perfection there is no paper rock scissors...
Bt I'm not gonna to desagree with you this Vader was a quite hyped.. But you have to admit he had more potential than cyber Vader.
Antoine Bandele Better with the Force is a somewhat broad way to put it. Mace, as well as several of the experienced masters, would have had far better control over his Force powers, in both subtle and direct ways. In terms of raw potential, Anakin surpasses any other Force user in history, with the only possible exceptions being the Father, Son, and Daughter, although these 3 beings are essentially manifestations of the Force itself and as such don't really count as far as I'm concerned. This potential, however, was never fully reached. He could have become a Force user of such power and ability that he would have completely eclipsed any and all others, including characters such as Yoda and Palpatine alike, and would have been able to overpower them in any direct Force contest. An example of "overpowering" can be found when Yoda faces Dooku. He redirects Dooku's lightning twice, after which he shows the absolutely futility of the attack by taking the energy and dissipating/absorbing it entirely, something that requires a much higher degree of power than simple redirection.
***** You mean besides Mace blowing away entire armies of droids?
Antoine: * Hits blunt *
Also Antoine: “I think I have an idea for a video”
Spoiler alert darth Vader wins
;)
WHAAAAAAT?! Great, you ruined the whole video!
I hope darth Vader kick darth Vader ass
I disagree. Anakin was much faster and more agile, and if a mildly trained Luke defeated Darth Vader, I can't see Anakin losing.
Arrogance and over confidence doesn't make someone badly trained, just prone to mistakes.
DDuMas You take the Luke vs Vader fight out of context.
Antoine Bandele How so?
DDuMas Vader was emotionally conflicted, and neglected to make any use of his force powers against luke. Anakin is certainly more agile, but the difference in sheer raw speed isn't big. Also, with this being pre-suit vader, he isn't going to be fighting as well as he did as Anakin Skywalker.
DDuMas You are also forgeting the fact, since Lord Vader got to know Luke is his son, he never wanted to kill him. So with awareness of the Rule of two and knowing he cannot defeat the Emperor himself before seducing Luke to his side, there was only one place for a new Sith apprentice. So he wanted to sacrifice himself for his son which would replace him. He let himself to be defeated by Luke. When Luke refused to join the Dark side and Emperor wanted to kill him, he finally rebeled against his master saving his only son again.
FraterSinistrus A Darth wouldn't care about family relations. He only ever wanted to turn him or kill him. Right up until the point he turned, himself.
I agree. While freshly-turned Anakin was a powerhouse, ultimately he was still only a journeyman of the force. Darth Vader was a true master of his art. A master usually outdoes an adept...that's why they're called masters.
It would be a close fight to be sure, and if you fought them in duels say 10 times, Anakin would no doubt win a few just because the older Vader is still human and can make mistakes, but I'd still say something like 7 or 8 out of the 10 old Vader would win.
Agreed with that assessment. Vader doesn't win EVERY TIME . . . but he wins majority.
Antoine Bandele kinda wrong for anakin to lose. he killed many masters during jedi ivasion, and they were in large groups fighting him. he is considered the most powerful jedi killer ever
elelia booce Yes, but they weren't older, more experienced and tempered versions of himself. Plus there are things a Sith would do that a Jedi wouldn't (I would think, anyway lol), so a Sith vs. Sith fight could be VERY different. I think the assessment that either could win but the majority would go to cybernetic Vader is a fairly accurate one and in no way lessens younger Vader's ability. No matter who wins, I don't think the victor will just walk away unscathed. lol
"All three of his limbs."
+Cybermat47 he lost his right arm on a fight with dooku before the time of which this theoretical fight took place
Yup
All three biological limbs he had left .
+Antoine Bandele Not bad. However, I think you way overestimat how well cybernetic Vader could counter pre-suit Vader's lightsaber attacks. Anakin was so fast by the end of ROTS that Palpatine himself would've had a hard time keeping up with him. I personally don't think cybernetic Vader could've moved fast enough to match, let alone outdo, Anakin's strikes - he would've been simply overwhelmed. What makes you think that cybernetic Vader could ever move fast enough to counter Anakin at the end of ROTS? Even if he does know the fighting style because of his own past experience, he is so much slower as a duelist than Anakin was. Furthermore, if Luke at the end of ROTJ could defeat him (regardless of whether he was emotionally conflicted about killing his son), ROTS Anakin, I believe, could as well.
I'm inclined to agree with this on the basis on Anakin vs Vader but not specifically this Pre-Suit Vader vs Cybernetic Vader examination.
sorry but you guys do know that suit vader was pretty fast not as fast as pre suit vader but fast enough he could counter anakin plus he could pull from any lightsaber form obi wasn't the fastest but he could keep up with anakin so to say that vader couldnt is kinda bullshit
RiseLord Vader21 Pre Suit Vader had difficult beating one Jedi Master during his siege against the Jedi temple while losing to Obi-Wan.
Cyber Vader slaughter two Jedi Masters and Knights at once at the beginning of Order 66 (Both being book references of course).
I'm inclined, personally of course, to believe that this result would remain the same should the two have met in a parallel battleground.
RiseLord Vader21
Yes sammy and sum ya thats why i say vader could beat anakin plus alonh with other evidence if they did ever met
totally imagined the fight. oh man my hairs stood on end. my favorite description of any fight you've done.
Anakin Skywalker vs Luke Skywalker
Coming next year.
Luke=force would destroy anakian entirely.
sunkaiju47 psgaming
You don't know that. Every fight has two outcomes.
99thJediWarrior Not only would GM Luke defeat his father with room to spare, he'd probably redeem him too.
Lol no. Lukes force abilities would be hampered because of padme , she wasent a force sensitive. Anaking was more powerful , and luke got VERY little training, ani trained since he was 10.
Vader allowed luke to win
I recall in one of Antoine’s videos (although I’m sure it was way after this) he showed a clip showing George Lucas talking about the Prequel Trilogy being the prime of the Jedi and the Original Trilogy being old men in terms of fighting.
Seeing as this was a Legends matchup where Lucas is still authority unlike in the new Disney Canon, it should be obvious who between them wins.
“There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe-the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”
- George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
“I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”
- George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005
Ultimate authority on legends continuity my a$$
@@Wes_Bradley-Taubner In that exact second quote it literally says “they try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible”, what I said is still true.
@@emelem6858 Dafuq? They TRY to make it consistent chronologically, " but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”.
Legends Continuity is a completely different continuity from G-Canon. George Lucas's quotes are absolute when talking about G-Canon, which is only for his movies and TCW.
Legends went off in their own direction and have their own powerscaling. They try to make it as consistent with Lucas as possible, but that doesn't mean Lucas's statements are the end all be all of Legends.
George Lucas literally said “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world". How can George Lucas be the end all be all of a continuity he admits to knowing nothing about?
Star Wars fans (especially Legends fans) need to learn how to formulate their own opinions and arguments based on the feats and abilities shown in the Legends continuity. You can't just use George Lucas as some instant "Word of God" when doing Legends discussions cause Lucas's statements are only relevant when talking about G Canon. Legends continuity is basically a different franchise, so feats and abilities >>>>>>>> Lucas statements.
@@Wes_Bradley-Taubner >Legends Continuity is a completely different continuity from G-Canon.
No theyre not. The Essential Reader's Companion (2012) specficially underscores Lucas' Word of God' authority,
"As always, a story line direct from George Lucas trumps publishing continuity,"
G-Canon IS a part of the Expanded Universe Continuity.
""A common critique of the Expanded Universe is its size-no one. some say, should have to consume that much media to get the full Star Wars story In fact. the six Star Wars movies have always been the core of the saga, and the only absolutely essential parts to being a fan. But most ot the EU is part of the broader story too. Leland Y. Chee. the keeper or Lucasfilm's Holocron-an internal continuity base-has his own way of differentiating
among all the different sources:
G-CANON (FOR 'GEORGE LUCAS*')
Made up only of the six Star Wars movies and unpublished internal notes trom Lucas or the movie production department.
C-CANON (FOR -CONTINUITY)
Just about anything created by authors: so that includes most of the Expanded Universe.
S-CANON (FOR SECONDARY)
Used for older published materials created when there was tess attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. IF it gets referenced someplace else, it moves up to C-canon, It also can include video game-play mechanics. ""
**-Source: Star Wars Insider 101**
G-Canon (AKA the movie canon) is placed higher over C-Canon (AKA most of the EU). Even S-Canon has a conditional parameter where if they get referenced in C-Canon, it "moves up", meaning there's a clear hierarchy in place.
>George Lucas literally said “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world". How can George Lucas be the end all be all of a continuity he admits to knowing nothing about?
Because George, as the creator of Star Wars, obviously isn't beholden to the EU. But the EU, as outlined above, absolutely is. He doesn't have to care or know about a continuity for that same continuity to have him as the end all be all.
>Star Wars fans (especially Legends fans) need to learn how to formulate their own opinions and arguments based on the feats and abilities shown in the Legends continuity.
>You can't just use George Lucas as some instant "Word of God" when doing Legends discussions cause Lucas's statements are only relevant when talking about G Canon. Legends continuity is basically a different franchise, so feats and abilities >>>>>>>> Lucas statements.
As outlined above, G-Canon is part of EU and is the most important part of it. Feats and abilities are obviously important, but if WoG is explicitly stated to be this important then there's a point where making a claim for something that goes against it to an extreme degree leans more towards headcanon. Though obviously when in comes to the actual original Legends characters, that's where feats and abiltiies come in and are placed at presumably the upmost priority, but when concerning the aspects that Lucas IS involved in, it still takes place within the bubble of the EU and thus G-Canon takes effect.
@@emelem6858 A. “””No theyre not. The Essential Reader's Companion (2012) specficially underscores Lucas' Word of God' authority, “”” Again, this is only with regards to G-Canon. Legends Continuity is just a bunch on non canon stories that are based on Lucas’s works. They went off in their own direction and Lucas straight up admits that he doesn’t read Legends material and he doesn’t know anything about Legends. As he described it, “That’s a different world than my world”. How tf can Lucas be the end all be all about a star wars world that isn’t his own and that he knows nothing about? His statements aren’t the end all be all when talking about Legends. Feats and abilities matter way more than Lucas statements because Lucas doesn’t know enough about the non canon material to give a WoG statement for. Which makes sense because Legends was always non canon, so Lucas didn’t need to know everything about Legends star wars. In Lucas’s canon for example, Anakin may be a Tier 9 duelist and a tier above Yoda, Mace and Sidious, but based on Legends feats, yoda, mace and sidious are at the very least on par with Anakin due to a variety of factors such as superior feats, mastery of all 7 forms, vaapad, much greater amount of dueling experience and refinement, superior accolades, etc. With legends Star Wars debates, feats, abilities and accolades >>> Lucas statements. B. “””"As always, a story line direct from George Lucas trumps publishing continuity," “”” That has nothing to do with Lucas’s statements being the end all be all with regards to Legends power scaling. That statement is about Lucas’s STORIES taking prime importance over other stories. So obviously the movies and shows > comics, novels and games. The ROTS film, novelization and comic version all have some inconsistencies and differences, so the film is deemed the most important one and has higher status in canon than the novel and comic (only the novel and comic aren’t canon in the first place because legends continuity is all non canon). His stories (ie the films and TCW) take importance over the alternative material. In no way does this mean that Lucas’s statements are 100% factual when talking about Legends continuity, especially when the legends material contradicts soooo many of his statements. C. “””G-Canon IS a part of the Expanded Universe Continuity. “”” What that means is Lucas’s stories do take place within the Legends continuity, which is obvious. Originals, prequels, TCW movie, TCW seasons 1-6, those are all G-Canon stories that exist within Legends continuity. That doesn’t mean that Lucas’s dozens of contradictory statements are WoG for Legends debates, only solely G-Canon debates. Legends is a series of non canon stories based on Lucas’s works, so they can make tons of characters more powerful than Sidious or more skilled than Anakin. G-Canon exists within the Legends continuity and the Disney Canon continuity because they’re like the immovable objects of star wars. Just because Lucas’s stories exist within Legends continuity doesn’t mean his highly self contradictory statements (that are often times heavily contradicted by the feats in the lore) are the end all be all when talking about Legends characters. D. Pretty much everything you discuss regarding Star Wars Insider ties back to my point B. Lucas’s stories take prime importance over the comics and novels that often times contradict his films. When there’s differences between what happens in the TPM novel and film for example, the film is the more accurate depiction because Lucas’s stories take precedence over everything else. Just because Lucas’s stories take precedence over the other material doesn’t mean that Lucas’s contradictory statements are the end all be all when talking about Legends versions. Lucas’s stories (films and shows) have the highest importance out of all other material. That doesn’t mean his statements do. Lucas is just one of many storytellers who has added to the EU. The non canon stories can still make their own stories that don’t have to align with Lucas’s rules.
FYI: Your little clip at 9:07 about absorbing lightsaber blows. The reason she took that blow with her hands isn't because she was absorbing the blow with the force. It was because she had cartosis gloves one, which are un-able to be pierced by a lightsaber.
Woah. It's been a long time since I last watched this. It's wonderful, though!
As always, wonderful video Antoine!
I disagree with this, this is basically Pre-suit Vader vs Count Dooku all over again. Anakin would win, not Darth Vader. You didn't take mobility into argument where Pre-suit Vader's style is swift and powerful. Vader is too slow, he wouldn't be able to keep up. In which is one of the main reasons why Dooku lost to Anakin, regardless of Dooku's experience. Vader tried mind tricks against Luke, who wasn't even that great of a duelist and got plummeted, obviously being shown that he lacks quick reflexes and high mobility to keep up with someone younger than him. Plus, Anakin is much more skilled with a light saber than Luke.
Ontop of that, Anakin can use Force lightning. One of Darth Vader's biggest weaknesses. I'm sorry but, I just don't see Vader winning. Yeah, he was more experienced but so was Dooku who also fell to Anakin. Obi-wan was more experienced but was getting tossed around the entire fight against Anakin like a ragdoll. Not only that but Sidious sought to replace Darth Vader for a reason opposed to his former, non-mechanical suited version. His potential was cut short in his suit. Vader was more versed but he lacked the competent mobitlity and speed to be on par with Anakin, his defenses would surely fall. 7 Times out of 10 I'd have to give the win to Anakin.
+x D i v i n e--- i agree with you, mate ;)
+x D i v i n e--- Anakin has never been shown via a canon source using lightening. If you're referencing the video game I do not believe that counts. He never had time to learn any real dark side abilities other than force choke which is just basic telekinesis focused on the throat. HE was Vader for a few hours before being crippled by ObiWan. After that his cybernetics made lightening impossible( more like a really bad idea) for him to use. If anything I could support this by bringing up his fight with Obi Wan. When both were disarmed and doing hand to hand combat, a stream of force lightening would have ended the fight quickly. Im not saying Anakin wasn't capable of lightening, he just never had a chance to learn.
Kyle messenger of pain/Darth Umbra Vader has also lost to someone comparable in speed and LESS experienced than Anakin such as Luke himself. If Vader tried any mind tricks against Anakin, he'd have a bigger problem on his hands than he did with Luke.It would be akin to what happened to Dooku.
The reason to why Vader lost to Luke was because he never wanted to fight him. At least read between the lines or go re watch the movie. He wanted Luke to be spared.
+GodOfWar20131 anakin didnt lack tatics... lets not act like anakin always fights as he did in rots against obi wan
I wanted to see that ;] thanks
OMG MY TWO FAV RUclipsRS ON ONE VID!
The Dark Lord kills the younger one . . . .
The Dark Lord Fades.
The verdict is weird. It says cybernetic vader is outdone by presuit but then says suit wins. But canonically presuit vader was so powerful that obi wan was the only character that could beat anakin and just because he knew him so well, but also he would have beat obi if he hadnt retreated or used the forbidden technique
I wish anakin just didn't become stupid
StaaanOziy - Same.
Not stupid, just arrogant and prideful he could have jumped a little further. The man literally did a 100 foot jump to get on obis platform.
He was also unbalanced and blind with rage.
It’s super interesting but the title is kinda hilarious
Vader's taunt
Vader: You are a disappontment young Skywalker the fans love me. You are a moody easily tempered child with a very wanting sense of humor. I am the face of this franchise, a hero and icon to millions. You are a serial killer with a lightsaber....I can't believe I was ever you!
Damn that would not even be a taunt , that would be brutal 4th wall breaking roast .
I find it hard to believe that empire people could use interstellar travel, and couldn't find a material to cover Vaders panel
I find it stupid how people use ABC logic to refer to more body mass and therefore more "midichlorians" as being more powerful. Look at Yoda, he has less ""midichlorians" per cell as Anakin and a total body mass of only 1/3 of Anakin. Yet he is so much more powerful than Anakin. With this in mind, Vader was about 2/3 of his original body mass post suit but due to his training through Sidious he learnt how to utilise what power he had left to the full and thus became more skilful in the force than he'd ever been. If it wasn't for his suit's physical hinderance and susceptibility to lighting he could have even challenged Sidious. Just because he had a greater potential pre suit doesn't make him anymore powerful than what he became post suit.
If you don't understand that, think of it like a big kid playing sport who is faster and stronger naturally than the other kids and he becomes arrogant and doesn't try his hardest. By chance, one of the smaller kids trains really hard to become a big rig and fills his potential. Although the big kid could have been really good, the small kid makes up for his lack of size and fulfils his potential thus overcoming the big kid.
Captain McNuggets 😂😂😂😂😂 this is right
Captain McNuggets No. Not so in this particular case. For starters, you are wrong because George Lucas himself has stated that Vader's loss of body mass is congruent to his loss of Force strength, due to a loss of midi-chlorians. You can't compare Anakin/Vader to Yoda, or any other alien Jedi for that matter, who isn't also human. Those respective species' DNA and blood cell structuring is much different than a human's internal biology.
It was stated by one of the authors in one of the various Star Wars novels (can't remember which exactly right off the top of my head, but I think maybe it was 'Darth Plagueis' during one of his analyses on the unique properties of midi-chlorians) that Yoda's Force abilities were unique in that his species' prolonged lifespan allowed him to slowly build up his midi-chlorian count. Whereas human blood cells are constantly breaking down and being replenished all the time, Yoda's biology didn't quite follow the same process.
After a certain age Yoda stopped losing the blood cells in his body that housed midi-chlorians, and would only add to them by generating new ones. In other words, let's say 3 out of every 10 blood cells in Yoda contained midi-chlorians. After a certain age, he only lost the 7 blood cells not possessing midi-chlorians, and replacing them with another set of 3 out of 10 midi-chlorian laced blood cells. Naturally, those older cells would weaken with age much as Yoda himself would during his lifetime, but still, that's one hell of a biological advantage to have. Consequently, Yoda's midi-chlorian count gradually built up within him over time to keep him at peak strength levels. As a human, Anakin/Vader didn't have that unique benefit. If 4 out of every 10 of his blood cells were midi-chlorian cells, he'd still lose all 10 and replace them with the same 4 out of 10 cells no matter what.
Yeah but at the end of the day he lost midicloriams. So yes he is still powerful but he could have definitely used those few million midicloriams he lost.
Darth Vader is more skilled but Anakin is more savage. I would agree that Darth Vader, would win.
+ROBLOX Attack on Titan Tactics only loss against brute force when the force is much stronger. Vader and Anakin, being the same person, are to similar from their force levels. I would also agree that Vader wins!
Young Vaders only down falls was his arrogance and ego, for example he kept toe to toe with obi wan and doku, if he was more mature i have no doubt he would win.
Agreed.
Antoine Bandele cheers antoine
Your explanations are so in depth , I love hearing your videos.
Any hang ups that Anakin had was because he was a Jedi his entire life.
Even if Anakin had the ability to use Force Lightning earlier in his life as a Jedi, the Jedi Order would never condone his use of it. They would restrict him from using it at all times, even in combat. Therefore, it wasn't because he was lazy, or didn't bother to practice. He could only go as far as the Jedi would ALLOW him to go.
Even if Anakin one day said, "Hey guys look !! I can create life from nothing !! and can resurrect the dead !! " The Jedi Council would not be pleased. They would hold him back as they have done his entire career as a Jedi. They would attempt to control the power and tell Anakin when he could, or could not use the new found power.
Darth Sidous told Yoda, "The boy (Pre Suit Vader) will become more stronger then either of us." That's pretty important ! Anakin hadn't been a Sith for too long (Several Weeks), and Sidious had already felt he would surpass him. I honestly feel that Pre Suit Vader is in a tier of his own, and Cyber Vader wouldn't hold a candle to him.
Given 6 month to a year, and Pre Suit Vader would be doing crazy shit only seen in Force Unleashed as Star Killer. Two Years of training and he would be on par with Sidious. The only thing stopping his progress is other people. Sidious wouldn't allow Anakin to progress too fast either. If Sidious was dumb enough to give Anakin full access to all of the Sith Knowledge, Sidious would be outmatched and dead in 2 years.
TheTruthIsGonnaHurt The Jedi's teaching was a part of it. But a large part of it came from Anakin himself. He felt he didn't need to learn that much from the Jedi.
Anakin was a darksider three-four days before getting burnt. The *potential* of pre-suit Vader was above cybernetic Vader. But in actuality, he was unrefined. Within those few days, he had no formal training from Sidious on how to use the dark side properly. He was merely set loose.
Starkiller, and his abilities, is overrated. When you really look deep into his Force abilities they were not extraordinary.
I agree with Sidious being outmatched in a span of 2 years or less.
Antoine Bandele You say 'he [Anakin] felt he didn't need to learn that much from the Jedi', yet I don't think that was true. He may have been twisted with his view of their politics, but he felt like they were holding him back rather than not needing to learn from them. Anakin wanted to progress too fast, too far.
TheTruthIsGonnaHurt The Jedi only use the force for defence. I think the masters dabbled in breaking some of those rules, while using some dark forces without anger, but I might be wrong with that one.
Antoine Bandele Obi Wan scoffed at Anakin, saying he practiced his lightsaber so much he thinks he can rival Master Yoda as a Swordsman. This statement proves Anakin wasn't lazy.
Anakin was ALWAYS practicing, and when he wasn't practicing he was doing "friendly competitions" with Obi Wan, or Ahsoka. When he wasn't doing that, he was on the front lines getting real life experience.
In MMO terms, Anakin was a "Power Grinder", and he was hell bent on trying to get to level 50 in the shortest amount of time possible.
Another scoffing remark Obi Wan would say about Anakin was he, "Always on the move.."
Anakin was a guy that could not sit still for too long. He didn't like boring, long winded council debates, or doing things that restricted his time, like training younglings. Anakin would listen enough to get the basics of whatever the Jedi tried to teach him, whether it was Lightsaber training, or Force abilities, and then he would run with it.
However, let me stress this point, once he learned the basics fundamentals, he would practice with it all the time, even when he shouldn't have too, or even if it was not appropriate. Such as using the Force to pick up fruit, or Force Lifting an object on a table while waiting around.
He was a guy that was always using his abilites, and once he learned a new one, he couldnt help himself he had to use it all the time even when it was wrong to do so, such as Force Choke.
DDuMas That gives you some insight into why Anakin held a grudge against the Jedi Council.
Why should Mace Windu be allowed to dabble with the Darkside, but Anakin can't !?
One can argue Windu had more life experience, was a team player, or simply proven himself more capable as a Jedi. Regardless of the reasons, they're all just opinions, and those opinions were not valid enough reasons for Anakin.
Anakin viewed the people giving the opinions were not suitable of judging him, because they couldn't do what he could do with the Force. The only person Anakin really respected was Yoda. Kind of hard not to respect a guy that has lived 900 years, trained all Jedi in the Jedi Council, Powerful Swordsman, and a Powerful Force User.
However for everyone else, including Obi Wan, he gave them respect on a simplistic level. "Oh you are nice to me, so I will be nice to you." "Oh you are a Jedi Master, it is customary to bow when greeting one, so I bow, but I am actually better then you." "Oh you are a Jedi Youngling, that thinks I am cool, I guess you are okay, but don't bother me."
That is not deep valued respect, that is going through the motions. Anakin respected Power, and Yoda was the only one that truly fit the bill. So Anakin played along more out of respect for Yoda. So if Yoda says listen to the others and follow their commands, he did so to a point, but you can see those commands deteriorating rapidly the more Anakin didn't value or respect who was giving the commands. Which is why he always disobeying the Council.
In the Revenge of the Sith novel when Vader wakes up in the suit and crushes everything, You know the part with "NOOOOOO"? He was trying to crush Sidious too but his machine body made him so much weaker than before. He was still strong but was far below his previous peak.
That is correct and is also stated within the video. But over time, Vader sharpened that knife to a needle point. Instead of using the Force solely as a blunt instrument, he started to poke holes in his opponent's defenses.
I agree with the outcome, but I do not agree with 2 of the 3 rounds. I disagree with the Physical Abilities and Force Abilities conclusions.
Your main reason for pre-suit Vader winning the Physical Abilities round is because he has a high tolerance for pain. What doesn't make any sense to me is that you didn't acknowledge that suited Vader's pain tolerance is even greater. If anything, the only physical advantage pre-suit Vader has is he is more mobile. Suited Vader is tougher and quite a great deal stronger.
In regards to each of their Force Abilites, Suited Vader should have gotten the edge. Through his feats in the Force in the canon, he has shown to be more powerful (through greater understanding of the Force) than pre-suit Vader.
Did not expect that at all. Great analysis. Just subbed.
Vampunz Thanks! Welcome to our dysfunctional little community!
This is silly. Darth Vader would kick Darth Vader's ass.
:-P
Agreed Darth Vader would win against Darth Vader
***** What do you think ?
+jaydon dunn ;-)
I know it has little to do with this matchup, at what level would you consider Kenobi's Soresu be in terms of mastery with the following criteria in mind? Proficiency = Understanding and ability to use the form practically in combat. Mastery: Advanced practitioner of the form having a preference for and extensive experience with it. Specialization: The forms is not only mastered, but the backbone of the user's entire combat style (Much like Dooku with Makashi in that it was all he used). At first, I though mastery, but reconsidered when I learned Windu believed Kenobi to be the greatest master of Soresu in his day. However, I still think it would be unfair to give him specialization in a game for example because it would give him specialization in Soresu, mastery of Ataru, and proficiency in Shien while Dooku would only have specialization in Makashi albeit superior force powers. I have made a battlefield style of star wars game for my brothers and this detail bothered me. Any insights?
Nicholas Peterman Kenobi is the greatest mater of Soresu we have thus far seen in Star Wars lore.
this is bullcrap it's all hypothetical
Anakin's young self has better physical abilties like you said right he aslso has more speed he is also is good with Soresu and jimso and the speed and strength would tire Darth Vader in his suit
Heather B Pre-suit Vader has *never* displayed a proficiency with Soresu.
Just wondering, what is the clip starting at 12:16 from?
Everyone knows Obiwan only "beat" Vader because they had to figure out a way to get him in that suit.
+JobeMinacum I feel like it would've been an interesting turn of events if they made the prequels where at some point in ROTS after he turned to the dark side, Anakin beat Obi Wan to force him to retreat (explaining Obi Wan being alive and non-mutilated in the originals) and then tried to turn on Sidious, but Sidious trashes him and mutilates him into the monster he became.
refinedfriend
That's a very good point, I never thought of that. But it makes sense. Sidous wanted Vader to be just his apprentice, and didn't want him to surpass him and kill him.. so it makes sense.
Yeah, screw the whole "Obiwan beats Vader on a planet of lava" shit. That ending had to be the worst part of the triology.. I mean seriously, we just saw Dooku thrash Obi Wan and throw him around like a rag doll and then Anakin killed him with ease.
+JobeMinacum I dont understand.
+JobeMinacum Lucas had that one planned from a very early point in the OT. Of what little was known of Anakin's history, we knew "Obi-Wan knocked him into a volcano." Close.
+refinedfriend wouln't work, remember the dialouge in EP 4! Vader says he was just an apprentice last time but now he is the master. This indicates That he lost their last battle.
+Antoine Bandele This is the first video of yours I have seen I personally really like how you completely come up with how the exact fight would happen, its really cool I love it!
Thanks.
Antoine Bandele OMG, another thing I like, you actually reply to your 'fans'. Keep it up man. Respect!
No way dude , Anakin was stronger than Vador , he was much more agile and fast . I'm sure Anakin would win in a 1v1 fight .
I agree
No The force Darth Vadar (empire) admits is huge, he is so good at TK he can force choke people star systems aways and blow away at ats real the comics, pre suit vadar doesnt have the force shield to handle post suit vadar force choke stab
the expecial effects and vader, who learned about his mistake on mustafar, doesnt fight on blindness
+Kevin Walker There's no way, post suit Vader force abilities are at least on par with pre suit Vader. As he is 8/10 the power of Sidious. That's not even mentioning that young Vader wasn't much of a tactician. He relied on his ferocious strength and speed to over power most of his opponents. In terms of strength his on also on par with him because of his prosthetics. Post suit Vader's defense may not be as legendary as Obi-wan, but it's still great nonetheless. He's defense will buy him enough time to tactically plan a way to use young Vader's recklessness against him.
Kevin Walker Agility and speed is not everything. Many pro Boxers has destroyed masters of Kung Fu and Karate despite being far less agile and less fast. Vader has fought foes of equal speed and agility to pre suit Vader and won.
Clone wars comics show Anakin know and use many time Lighstaber throws, more impressive than Vader. Left that out. He also used Force Scream before in rage. Left that out. Also here is a fun fact, Anakin fought and defeated the best duelist of his era. Guys like Dooku, Grievous, Ventress, and would beaten Obi Wan if not for the plot device of Padme driving him over the edge, fighting like crap, which the novel states as well.
King Gojira Sure saber throw is something he could use but did not often employ.
Force Scream isn't a consistent feat.
Anakin fought on par with Dooku until a 2v1 scenario against him where is focus was helped along by Sidious. Before that they were equals or Dooku wins solidly against him. But Anakin is certainly not leaps and bounds greater than Dooku.
Anakin has never faced Grievous.
Anakin only defeated Ventress when she barely had any Sith training (CW micro series). Asajj is the one who gave Anakin his eye scar. When they fought, her biggest enemy was herself when she was far more competent.
I agree on paper Anakin should beat Obi-Wan pretty solidly if it had not been for his lacking tunnel vision.
Antoine Bandele If I'm not mistaken, Djem So counters Makashi, so Dooku had that going against him as well.
Antoine Bandele anakin as of rots would murder rotj luke how is this even a topic of discussion ?
Antoine Bandele She may have given him that scar but he still kicked her ass by tying her up in those wires and throwing her off that building. He got that scar because he got reckless when Ventress threatened his wife.
Please do Anakin Skywalker vs Yoda!
Vetle Weme
Anakin Skywalker vs Yoda wouldn't be the landslide that many people would think it would, as Darth Tyranus duelled Yoda and held his own, and Anakin was proven to be a match for Tyranus. The winner would still be obvious, though.
@@FilthyTrot Well going by George Lucas's word: ROTS Anakin > Yoda.
@@TheNuisanceBird Could you please give the quote?
Black Zabrak See above comment.
"One of the greatest Jedi killers of all time" I think more like "one of greatest child killers of all time"
Can someone explain this to me: Vader was the last sith to die, and he died by Sidous' lightning. Doesn't that mean that Sidious was the chosen one?
XD Omg Lol Bro.....
*LE GASP* AHHHHHHHHH
Akaakaaka ak No, Darth Vader was in the light before he killed/died to the Force Lightning.
Vader will win hands down
No, Darth Vader would destroy Darth Vader.
duh.
+Illustrious Foxx no, Vader would just force choke Vader
Chris Kelley No, Vader would just throw his lightsaber at Vader.
+Illustrious Foxx no, Vader would just get the high ground and win
The Official Nelson Gaming But Vader could just Throw lava at him. Then Vader would have the lava ground.
darth vader wins easily killing darth vader making him the best darth vader so than he takes the top of the darth vaders.
Wow! What a cool video. I think what will really help anyone who has doubts about the cybernetic Vader is a newer film starring him. That way, we can finally see the version in a modern setting that isn't hampered by older tech like it was in the 70s and 80s. Keep up the good work!
10:17 Cruxify him!
If you listen carefully you will hear its very nerdy.
DreamVikings It you listen somewhat lazily you could probably still hear the nerd spewing everywhere.
DreamVikings You got fucking roasted.
IF Anakin never lost his limbs and stuff, and grew old and learnt the tactical skills and patience and, well, think before act, what would happened?
He would dominate cyborg Vader and pretty much anyone he came across if that happened.
Antoine Bandele OK.
Antoine Bandele cyborg vader would win because he has learned more
Dustin Blackmore I agree.
sidious said that vader would become more powerful than both he and yoda. The only reason this didn't happen was because he lost his organic body. What would happen? He'd be the strongest sith or jedi in the universe
I love the way you break down battles! Old Vader's superior mind with his pre-suit body, now that would be interesting!
I have to disagree. Luke Skywalker defeated Vader with even less refinement, experience and overall power. Despite Anakin's arrogance and temper, Luke was equally blind in his battle with Vader after sufficient taunting. Not only is Anakin (younger Vader) better trained, battle hardened and experienced than Luke, but he's also considerably more powerful. I agree with Vader's tactical superiority and greater skill in saber combat, but we've already seen where that lead in a fight with a faster more powerful opponent. Anakin in his prime would totally beat Luke as he was during Return of the Jedi, and most certainly would beat his crippled future self.
Ah but you are observing Darth Vader as a 43-47 year old man out of practice. I was observing Cybernetic Vader as he was at age 25-27 when he was completing the Jedi Purge.
Also, Vader was conflicted when fighting Luke. Luke could feel the conflict with him. He was not fighting as he was in Empire Strikes Back with the full force of the dark side.
I would think that Vader would have improved since then, having had more time to adapt to his cybernetics. There was never any indication of his health degrading by any noticeable amount between those times.
He was conflicted in both movies because he knew even then that Luke was his son, however, Luke's skill greatly improved between Empire and Return, if anyone was holding back, it was him. He fought defensively the whole battle and relented several times to try and talk Vader out of the Dark Side. The second Luke started trying to win Vader got dominated into a corner and hammer down.
Anakin was trained in the Jedi Temple from the age of nine, travelled throughout the galaxy on battle filled adventures as Obi Wan's Padawan, and fought in clone wars right up until becoming Darth Vader, where as Luke was a moisture farmer all the way until he was 19 and hadn't been in a single fight. That's a pretty vast difference. If Luke could beat Vader so profoundly after a few years training, just imagine the asswhooping Anakin would have dealt out.
That's not true at all in the Star Wars universe. Older Count Dooku would completely own his younger self just as badly as he owned numerous other Jedi. The fact is that mastery over the Force enables one to augment their speed and strength far beyond the normal limitations of ordinary athletes, so the same rules don't apply. If anything, Vader's use of the force would have improved since that time, as well as his adaptation to being mostly cybernetic. Which also raises another point, he's more machine than man, his artificial respiratory system doesn't get old.
As for Vader's fight with older Obi Wan, let's think that over for a second, is it Vader past his prime? Orrrr is it a badly choreographed scene with a dude who has no stunt training and can barely see out of a helmet?? If that battle were directed with today's affects and choreography teams, you'd be seeing something VERY different. Gotta think over your arguments dude, because that one was pretty obvious.
It doesn't, not at all. Vader was 45 and there are plenty of people even in real life who can outperform younger athletes based simply on their genes and or fitness routines.45 is nothing for a Force user, especially a strong one like him. Even with the cybernetics, Vader is still extremely powerful.
Yoda and Vader aren't even comparable in age. Yoda is the equivalent of a 110 year old human, in terms of age deterioration. He lost to Palpatine because he less powerful and because there was a shift in the balance of the Force. He was meant to lose the fight, and he knew it. By less powerful, I mean fewer midichlorians.
Qui-Gon lost because he less powerful and not as conditioned as Maul, age had nothing to do with it. Jinn's life and training were cushy by comparison to Maul's.
Anakin defeated Dooku because, once again, he innately more powerful, and because he used Form V combat against him, the perfect counter to Dooku's Form II.
Vader and Obi Wan were fighting in a contained space, so even if you put choreography aside, there wasn't much room for epic acrobatics. Once again, not age.
To further the point, the younger, more athletic Obi Wan was in better shape than Dooku or Palpatine, yet was clearly no match for either of them. Dooku was even older than Ben Kenobi, yet still fought with incredible athletic prowess, and could perform flips and jumps. Yoda could have cleaned Anakin or Obi Wan's clock too despite an EXTREME age difference. Anakin would have grown more powerful in time but was only 23, compared to the 900 year old Yoda.
Midichlorians and development of one's knowledge of the Force far outweigh physical age factors, especially since Vader isn't even that old. Anakin is simply more powerful because his body was pure at the time. If Vader were purely organic, (a 45 year old Anakin) we'd see a whole new universe.
I didn't like my own comment lol. I didn't put likes on any comments here. I think it's safe to say that Vader's skills had only grown since that time and rest is a matter of choreography. As I pointed out in previous comments, Vader was not conflicted about turning Luke to the Dark Side of the Force, as he believed in its power and wanted his son to have it. He believed it was the only way for them both to survive. The only conflict was that he didn't want him to become Sidious' next victim. Hence why he worked quite hard to turn Luke. It was only when Palpatine tried to kill him that he finally broke free.
This video was great until you compared Star Wars to twilight...
Billyharris110 :D of TPNG and DVGU agreed
I have to say, I wish you had some sort of talent in animation, as I would love to see the duel you've described here (and in other places) in some sort of show.
this was interesting! I thought you were leaning toward the younger Vader. I would agree with pretty much everything. I do believe the suited Vader would lose a hand or arm but ultimately that wouldn't matter because his arms and hands are cybernetic. So yeah, suited Vader wins by decapitation.
I feel Vader's duelling advantage is to small to negate Anakin's massive speed advantage
wolfmaster7 He has fought foes of equal speed and agility to pre suit Vader
Bruce Jedi Lee no he hasn't
wolfmaster7 Yes he has. The dark woman, the Darth Maul clone, Galen Marek and the Starkiller clone are perfect examples. Vader hunted Jedi for decades and fought some of the best and during these many years speed and agility was only a trouble for him at the start but once he adapted to his suit and created a new style it was never a issue for him and he fought against and beat fast and agile fighters with ease
Bruce Jedi Lee none of those have shown the speed feats Anakin has
wolfmaster7 Non of Anakins speed feats are above theirs dude. Give me 1 speed feat to prove that
Darth Vader would be crushed by his organic predecessor's bad acting.
Hah this made me lol.
Antoine Bandele what was the song that played at the intro of round 3
Vader vs Revan
I beleive Vader beats Anakin physically, martially and Force-wise.
And for those who think Anakin's speed can give him an advantage, Vader proved himself to be able to deal with far faster opponents than him several times.
Anakin? I don’t see Anakin here.
@@AntoineBandele AKA Vader.
Sorry if this isn't the right definition.
No one Vader has fought can compete with Anakin in speed only freaking Yoda can compete with that
I love this cut scenes from SWTOR. I'm in love with Malavai so thanks for it :D
The non-cybernetic Darth Vader is far more powerful.
He's actually three times weaker than the suited vader
@@adamhogan5442 But the non-suited one is actually three times faster.
@@omeganator9926 Says who ? Vader managed to keep up with a fast enemy like Ahsoka and showed he can go faster than people give him credit for in Kenobi
@@professionalgamer6522 Well, in theory, the non-cybernetic Vader would have been more powerful as he would have been able to generate force lightning!
@@professionalgamer6522 Neither of whom are faster than Anakin
It depends on the era. Vader lost a considerable amount of his power after Mustafar and getting the suit, but was able to compensate over the years. I think Cyber Vader from the original trilogy is stronger than Pre-suit Vader in Episode III. But if Cyber Vader from the original tirlogy were to fight an alternate universe No-suit Vader where he kept his whole body all the way up to the time period of the original trilogy, No-suit would win no contest.
Agreed.
***** Yep. It all extends to your opinion of the Force. But I lean more to the fact that Vader just didn't have the will.
***** Exactly. Stress is the #1 killer.
what he liked in raw power he learned over the years in knowledge, learning to master the dark side and turn his weaknesses into strength.
I would agree it he never lost his arms and legs and has his body so badly damaged that he needed the suit to survive you have been significantly more powerful more powerful then Darth Sidius and would have been able to learn force lightning without worrying about damaging his cybernetic.
I agree with the conclusion of Old beating young, I do think it would happen slightly differently, due to Youngs unrelenting offense I feel old would no longer be able to go on the offensive himself, as the fight went on young would begin to slow down as he expended his energy, around this time Old vader would start looking for an opening, his precision strikes would only require a split sencond.
As younger vaders movements slowed older vader would find that perfect opening during a barrage of attacks from the younger vader finish the fight
+Bl4ckV3ins Didn't Elder Vader know every lightsaber martial art?
jamaine gardner
I can't say that he did but even if that is the case the speed and strength of youngs attacks would compel old to go on the defensive, I think that makes sense personally but obviously everything being said is just speculation.
+jamaine gardner yes
the main thing about the suit was to surpass Aniken, at the time, but make sure he cannot surpass Sidious, and all the suit's flaws were intentional as Sidious knew the rule of 2 would one day have Vader turn on his master
Dude pre suited Vader should have won
Why?
Suit vader out classes pre suit, lol.
IDUBBBZTV FANBOY Not in all categories.
TheNuisanceBird Doesn't matter, Suit Vader out classes pre suit over all, this is a fact.
IDUBBBZTV FANBOY Well Antoine did give him the physicality edge and made the Force one even.
Obi-wan Kenobi, Jedi Master and member of the Jedi Council, inter-galactically famous war general, who's mere whispers of involvement in the rebellion brought fear to the Empire.... wasn't particularly strong with the force?
Really?!
The Star Wars franchise has made it very, very clear that Obi-Wan Kenobi was one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. He wasn't Yoda or Mace Windu, but right below them -- and that's not a bad place to be.
All you did was list of his titles, but none of his feats. He was not. Show me an instance in which his Force wall or even his offensive combative abilities were that great.
Antoine Bandele Obi-Wan was only one of two Jedi to defeat actual Sith in his generation -- and he defeated not one, but two, including the only other Jedi who defeated a Sith, after that Jedi turned Sith. He defeated Maul as a padiwan.
He also single-handidly defeated General Grevious.
Like it or not, he was absolutely one of the most powerful Jedi of his time and then some. That is very clear through canon.
Feel free to go back and watch Revenge of the Sith when he slices off both of Anikan's legs and one of his arms -- and goes toe to toe with him in force powers -- and say that his offensive combative abilities weren't that great.
They were awesome. One of the most powerful combatants we see. Period.
The only canon for Star Wars at this point, like it or not, are the movies + cartoons. In that canon, only Sidious, Yoda and Mace Windu were clearly more powerful than Obi-Wan at Obi-wan's prime, at the time of Revenge of the Sith. That puts him in good company, since Windu and Yoda were two of the most powerful Jedi ever.
Ryeguy123a His defeat of Darth Maul was clearly PIS. That was clearly a Maul victory. Also, Obi-Wan only managed to defeated Anakin because Anakin had a serious case of tunnel vision. Obi-Wan did not defeat Anakin by virtue of his skill. In the novel he clearly states that Anakin is the better fighter.
He did defeat General Grievous, and that was by virtue of his skill. However, that was not by virtue of his combative Force abilities.
He is one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, but not by way of his Force abilities, more for his abilities with a lightsaber.
Again, your point is moot because Anakin was hindered during their fight on Mustafar.
You are right about the canon, but you left one thing out. The movies and the TCW series are canon, as well as the novelizations for the movies. Not only does the Revenge of the Sith novelization clearly state that Anakin was Obi-Wan's superior, but so does Nick Gillard, the fight choreography for the prequel trilogy. Anakin is Tier-9, Obi-Wan is Tier 8.
Star Wars It's All For Real: The Stunts Of Episode III Featurette Part 2
We can also see that Anakin was his superior in their fights with Dooku. In Episode II Anakin lasts much longer than Obi-Wan does. In TCW, Obi-Wan gets tossed around by Dooku but Anakin fights as his equal. And finally in Episode III Dooku nearly kills Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Anakin defeats him finally.
There really is no question: Anakin > Obi-Wan. The reason they fought evenly in Episode III is that Anakin was blinded by his rage. He felt betrayed not only by his best friend, but by his wife. He was not going into that fight with a clear head. Not the same way he did when he entered the Jedi Temple, killing dozens of Jedi Knights and Masters.
The fact that Anakin surpassed Obi-Wan by the time of Episode III would put him closer to the likes of Mace Windu and Yoda, rather than Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Again, as I asked previously, which you have not adequately answered yet: show me an instance where Obi Wan's offensive or defensive Force powers were extraordinary. He was not a great warrior because of his Force abilities. His Force abilities were solid, but nothing more. His mastery was with the blade.
Antoine Bandele Every fictionalized fight is PIS. That is the basis of fiction, especially pulp material like Star Wars. Either we accept the fights and what took place in them as canon, or we throw out every single fictionalized fight ever (in any franchise ever) because they're all PIS.
I agree that his lightsaber skills were what he was most renowned for, but he never lacked for force jumps, force pushes (in which he went toe to toe with Anikan) or manipulation of the mind, be it the Jedi mind trick, telekenisis, controlling animals, etc.
There are myriad examples throughout the prequels and Clone Wars series, the best of which is when he and Anikan both hit each other with force pushes in their final duel at the same time -- and came to a draw. How is that not a measure of their capability with force powers?
You may say that Anikan went into that fight flawed, but he looked pretty determined to me - and we have a history of Star Wars canon saying that rage enhances the power of the Dark Side. Meanwhile, you completely discount Obi-Wan's emotional state, in which he suspected he was one of the last two Jedi left alive -- and failed so hard that his own former apprentice was the one responsible for killing all too many Jedi.
Do you really think Obi-Wan went into that fight clear headed?
Given that we can't measure how much their emotional states impacted their fight, it doesn't make sense to use that as a measuring tool compared to the very clear evidence presented about their force powers during that fight -- in which they were very literally an equal match.
Re: Canon, I *wish* the novels were still canon, but after Disney bought Star Wars, they declared that only the films and the cartoons are canon at this point. The fight over what's canon in Star Wars is unfortunately over -- it's just the movies and the tv series.
Ryeguy123a www.theforce.net/story/literature/Yes_The_Star_Wars_Movie_Novelizations_Are_Canon_157749.asp
Del Rey Books confirmed the novelizations of the movies, including the Clone Wars, are part of the new canon.
You still have not attempted to refute my other points listed in the first response, which clearly showcases Anakin's superiority.
It is actually discussed that Obi-Wan does let his inner turmoil go:
BEGIN CITATION:
Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand.
. . . Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment . . .
He let it go.
END CITATION.
But Anakin never manages it, thus leaving his judgement clouded and fighting sloppy, making stupid decisions.
Why are vader's cybernetics seen as a bad thing when the cybernetics of malgus where an upgrade? Souldn't he be stronger with future cybernetics?
Palpatine is a dick and stuffed Vader in some stupid suit lying around the warehouse.
I'm grasping at straws but maybe the emperor already won and decided to actualy impair Vader's ability with shitty cybernetics so he doesn't kil the emperor. Even tought the real awnser is he would probably be a lot better than malgus and young anakin if the movie had been filme chronologically.
+Olivier pilon rousseau I heard somewhere that Vader's cybernetics were substandard for that very reason.
Vader's suit was built with haste.
I see all the reasons you give witch are very plausible and I thank you for them. Now the question that popped in my mind is: If the suit was substandard or hastily built to save Vader's life, why hasn't he upgraded his suit after his life was saved? Surely he must have had the ressources to do it. Also, having had a mechanical hand, he probably was aware of the possibilities in cybernetics.
Just imagine if Anakin wouldn't have tried that jump in episode 3 how powerful he would've became
Pre-Suit Vader Would Win. As You Said in Anakin Versus Galen Marek, Pre-Suit Vader (I'll Be Calling Him Anakin Without His Suit...) Would Be Able To Force Push Him In To A Rock And Anakin Could've Choked Vader, Since He Can Use The Ability "Force Choke," And Vader Would Be Forced To Either (A) Telekinetically Tap Into Anakin's Brain, Making Him Stop Using Force Choke, Or (B) Let Anakin Kill Him. Vader Would Choose Option A. And He Would Fall To The Ground, Crippled For A Few Seconds. By The Time Vader Could Get Back Up, Anakin Would Have Already Leaped To Vader, Either Stabbing His Main Control Panel, Or Decapitating Vader. Do You Agree, Antoine? Reply If You Agree Or Disagree, Anyone.
Shade Snow I do not agree.
Thank you, and do you believe that I could produce a good quality Versus series?
You don't call him Anakin without the suit. He was named Darth Vader before his injuries so suit or no suit he's still Vader.
Agree with you except for the force choke, you have to be massively ( and i mean totally outclassed ) more powerful in the force to force choke another practiced user of the force without catching them off guard. Anakin was more powerful but not to the degree needed to force choke vader. If you could just force choke whenever these duels would never even happen. Force push on the other hand is quite hard to resist and vader would have a difficult time withstanding anakins push.
I think it might depend on where they are too, on Hoth Vader just has to slightly mess with the buttons on his suit while pre suit Vader needs all of the clothing.
Cyber Vader takes this one. On the basis that he HAS to use all his remaining skills, abilities, ingenuity, etc just to overcome the hindrance of the suit. This led to so much practice, refinement, development of new styles, etc. In other words, he HAS to adapt to overcome. He's finally forced to actually develop his supposed prodigious skills & abilities. Combine that with the added cybernetic power of his suit, and I'd say he's damn near unstoppable. Sure, his force powers are dissipated. But his creativity and dedication has more than made up for his shortcomings.
Younger Vader ran on youth and raw ability. I tend to see him as arrogant and overconfident. Not as focused or refined. An uncut diamond. Sure he's a powerhouse, but he lost in the end. Rather embarrassingly, I might add, or at least that was what I saw in Revenge of the Sith.
Necessity vs lazy genius. Fighting to live vs fighting merely out of anger.
Out of 100 battles, I'd say Cybernetic Vader readily defeats Younger Vader 70-80 times. Maybe more.
elzibiel This ^ so much this ^
Not only do I think you're right, but Cybernetic Vader would be able to goad young Vader into just about any dumb action. The only way young Vader wins is if he wins so fast that Cybernetic Vader doesn't have time to manipulate the fight.
If vader would have managed to kill Obi wan on mustafar and not get burned to a crisp he would have been more powerful then the emperor himself!!
Alex Pettersson Not on that day ... maybe after some time.
now this one was very interesting not one I would have thought of ...nice work
Revan vs Mace Windu. Revan is more then capable of defeating Windu
I agree, good match. Vapaad wouldn't beat everybody.
Yeah and shatterpoints completely useless
As being both Jedi and Sith Revan has mutch more knowledge,skill and abilities then any Jedi or Sith during hes time besides the Sith Emperor.Revan also had an ability similar to Windu's shatterpoint and Vaapad would be useless cause Revan even as a Sith he didn't really seem to give into rage.I would say Darth Revan would be a very difficult opponent for Windu.
Revan lacks the feats to beat him though.
I'm HIGHLY considering this match up.
I personally think that young vader would win with the force. His raw power with something as simple as force push would break the cybernetic vader's force wall. Young vader would push the assault with a combo of quick strikes and force abilities that trump cybernetic vader's weaker, more complex force abilities.
I believe that Anakin would win.
No Anakins here.
+MAXIMILLIONtheGREAT Anakin was consumed by Darth Vader. There is no Anakin.
+MAXIMILLIONtheGREAT Thank you for making sure we weren't confused as to which one you were talking about.
+Sean Slayton my first name is Sean too,but me last name is Roca the only thing that is the same is our first name
0:07 in '78 Vader's age was set at 50. The age gaps are too wide between Luke, Liea and Obi Wan so I imagine these deets are hard to find.
I dont like the sounds you make with you're mouth when you talk.
wait wouldn't neither win because Darth Vader(suit version) would kill off his history and erase him from the present/ future
haha
lol
#Total mind fuck
I'm sorry but that verdict is impossible. Cybernetic vader really doesn't compare in speed. young vader is superier
superior
+Dark Paragon how many sith are alive.... i really need help if theres all these sith out there..
Vengeful Gaming force and skill was the real decision on this fight
This is gonna be a little rant but here goes.
After loosing his limbs and gaining the armor, Vader dedicated more attention to developing his limited potential than he spent earlier in his life. Vader's cybernetics limited his original potential, but he never devoted the level of attention to realizing that potential before he was crippled.
I always viewed the relation in power between Vader and Anakin like this: Anakin had yet to reach the height of his power by Mustafar, as he was still young. When he was injured during his duel with Obi Wan, he may have become somewhat less powerful, but he still had years to progress and become even more powerful than before he was burned. Anakin in total had 13 years as a jedi, while Vader had 19 years as a sith by A New Hope, 22 by Empire Strikes Back, and 23 by Return of the Jedi. So while if Darth Vader was "a shadow of his former self" after he was injured, he had a total of 19 years (plenty of time) to become more powerful than he currently was and to become more powerful than he was as Anakin (Pre Suit Vader). Plus he even got more advanced training as time went on and went against tougher robots as training up until Return of the Jedi. It is simple logic: if Anakin went from just a slave with potential to a proclaimed Jedi Knight in only 13 years, then surely even if he got injured, he could definitely make up for that loss in 19 MORE years. I didn't come here to start a debate or argue, I just simply wanted to say what my opinion was on the matter of Pre Suit Vader vs Suit Vader.