The Man vs Bear Debate
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
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Date: June 9, 2024
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RIP scoot, you went out with a good one, making women mad.
hereiam407 "Black bear or brown bear?" killed me lol
It is definitely Dwight on a fake account, isn't it?
@@ruffusgoodman4137 It's a pretty legitimate question, they act very differently, brown bears are much more dangerous.
@@hexcodeff6624 That's a ridiculous question.
And, Well, that's debatable, there are basically two schools of thought...
@@ruffusgoodman4137 It is the most important question in the scenario. If the likely encounter is with a brown (or polar) bear, choose man. If the likely encounter is with a brown bear, choose bear.
Like I get it. Women saying that they would rather be alone in the woods with a random bear versus a random man is to emphasize how fearful women are of men. But at the same time, I feel like there’s is a bit of spitefulness in saying that and a bit of rage bait. But what gets me are the regurgitated comments being made, like “ if a bear is in the woods it’s supposed to be there. If a man is in the woods he probably followed you there”. As if you have any more of a right to be in the woods than another person. And all of a sudden everyone is a bear expert, speaking so matter of fact about a wild animal most of them have never even seen in real life, saying at least they know what to expect from a bear. Do you? Lol
The scenario is not "is to emphasize how fearful women are of men". It is to emphasize that a small percentage of men are dangerous to women, and because of that women have to be on guard until the reliability of the particular man is established. The easiest example of a dangerous man is one would roofie a woman. The percentage of men who would do this is small, but the consequences are more damaging than many men want to acknowledge.
It absolutely is spiteful, but the original argument was too. Some dipshit podcaster was trying to pull a Ben Shapiro all “you may hate men, but would you rather get mauled to death by a bear than say hello to your average Joe?” and women were saying yes to mock him. But social media doesn’t like nuance, so now people are taking the actual argument seriously.
Gay bear or regular bear? Or a regular gay bear?
Also, how big is the bed?
I'm gay, I don't know what's going on
Just the straights making up more arguments to fight over.
Even if you're straight, not all men are rapists to women. In fact most men would attack a rapist man than attack a woman by an extreme margin.
straight people are pretty terrible to eachother ngl
If the question "would you rather meet a random man or a bear in the woods?" is posed to a gay fella it gets a whole new angle
On one hand, it's an interesting insight into how women feel afraid of men, and how sexism in society may strip women of their victimhood, compared to a natural predator which is more predictable and generally considered a threat.
On the other hand, it's easy ragebait to generalise men into one box(can't be helped, that's the question) and then suggest any man who reflexively disagrees is not a good man. Not all men are sexists or rapists or murderers, and not all women would rather encounter a bear than a man.
Ironically, this type of ragebait has mainly been used on women.
Unironically yes because I believe a lot more women now will defend the take that well men can sexually assault you which is true but idk the statistics and comparing those statistics of getting attacked by a bear!
@@nikolastiscareno4963 1 in every 5. thats the statistic. 1 in every 5 women experience sexual assault from a man. With a bear you know what it can and cannot do. A man is different. A man can gain your trust, a man can trick you, a man has patience... and that is why the man is the worse option.
@@ValTheVillain1 in 5 women experiencing SA is not equal to 1 in 5 men would SA a woman. SA would also include things like wolf whistling, which I feel like most women would rather experience than being mauled by a bear.
@@mdude3 SA absolutely does not include wolf whistling. That would be harassment, not assault.
Are we seriously at the point that we’re trying to downplay how often women are abused and attacked just to defend dude’s feelings?
@@mdude3 Its the uncertainty. Its not the knowledge of what will happen. This isn't get catcalled or get mauled by a bear. Also, cat-calling and wolf-whistling are considered harassment, not assault. And yes, I understand that the 1 in 5 stat doesn't mean 20% of men commit SA, but the point is that a woman has no way of knowing the man's intentions. He might be a great guy, but the character of the man isn't really the point here. It's that you physically cannot know what the man might do, and humans are known for being pretty fucking evil sometimes. If the woman were with the bear and got mauled, she'd at least know that the bear wasn't malicious in nature. The question could honestly be expanded to just be a human or a bear, even then, the bear is favorable because you know what the bear is able to do and what will happen to you if you encounter the bear. The human is scary because there is no way of knowing what the human is going to do.
I like bears they’re pretty Neato
My first thought was the Bear because bears are cool and I would want to see one on a hike (note not a grizzly or polar)
Yeah I didn’t pay attention to anything about this I just love bears a lot favorite animal
You like bears!? I do too
The only valid reason to pick bear.
@@wisemage0 ONLY
If you see a strange man in the woods: it's probably a tourist or a park ranger.
The key to this sentence is "probably". Yes, everyone knows the encounter with a random man would probably be neutral or positive. The problem is that women have too many encounters with men where the guy becomes aggressive with a threat of violence.
@@UnconventionalReasoning And also most women have never had an encounter with a bear in the wild. If more women had interactions with wild bears, most women would still pick the bear because all the ones that would had picked the man were mauled to death by a bear.
The context of "in the woods" is more important than a lot of men think
That's exactly where I think context is missing, though. Are you on a well-known hiking trail, or teleported into the middle of a random forest with no way home? Is the man randomly selected from the population, or a survivalist / hiker? I feel like anyone's answer could be greatly skewed in either direction depending on those details.
@@OblivionFalls exactly! Every piece of the question is ambiguous about things that make a HUGE difference.
The problem is that it wasnt something people thought about deliberately in terms of statistics. They thought about it based on reflexive emotional response, which is still worth thinking about, it's just not at all what it seemed like the question was asking.
@@OblivionFalls the man is just a man, any of them, you don't get to pick the man ofc cuz that would be stupid but the man is just that, a man.
@@zacharychristy8928 the thing is, the point of the question isn't about how long you could survive or how you would "beat" the scenario. its about what situation you would rather be in with no context, the location is really unimportant in all honesty. you are trapped in a location, one other being can be in that location, a man or a bear, which one would you pick. that is the question.
@@ValTheVillain yes, and if your assessment of the risk is that a randomly selected man is somehow more likely to spontaneously choose cause you harm than a bear, then you're either overestimating how aggresive men are, or underestimating how aggressive wild bears are.
The problem is very simple. Is this a question about honest risk assessment, or the fear response that either choice illicits? I think both are interesting and worth asking. but it is pointless and dishonest to swap one for the other.
It's become less about the literal hypothetical and more about the reaction and answer.
always was
As a women, I get what women are saying. Having been sexually assaulted by a random man, I get why bear seems like a better option. At the same time I also think most people don't realize how dangerous bears are.
One of the most convincing arguments I saw for bear was "the police would believe I was attacked by a bear". While I'm sure some people genuinely think bear is a better option, I personally see it has a discussion on how many people get assaulted all the time and how we never talk about it or feel that we can't
As a guy who myself was SA'd, I agree here
I’ve heard that too and it resonated with me; if a bear attacks you, people might ask what you did to provoke it (since they can just be chill) but still believe it happened but the amount of times a victim of SA has been doubted or the perpetrators have even been excused for their actions is disgusting. I’m sorry both of you have been through SA.
I also think a discussion that people are not having is the idea that women are usually brought up with concepts regarding men as dangerous and therefore need to be on guard, such as always having pepper spray, dressing modestly, and not meeting men alone for first dates. While some of those concepts could be shared between men and women, it’s heavier on the women side. Women are expected to be on guard a lot with unknown men but, in this hypothetical, it’s ridiculous for them to pick the bear? They haven’t been told for most of their lives to be weary about bears or have any personal bad experiences with bears so their first response might be to chance it with a bear. I don’t see how it needs to make anyone mad if women have their reasons for picking the bear that are more inherently personal than ‘realistic’
Bears really aren't that dangerous though, are they? From my understanding they basically do everything they can to avoid you, and even if you happen to cross paths with one, they'll probably leave you alone unless you intentionally do something to aggravate them.
@@its_elkku135 "About 110,000 brown bears are presently at large, along with an estimated 800,000 black bears" and black bears are the scaredy-cat ones so I would agree fully!
@@spikebennoda I love "at large". So they are criminals after all.
I had a friend that went hiking in the woods for like 6 months. He said the scariest moment was when he ran into a random couple. He was days away from civilization, they were dressed casually and the guy had a hatchet.
Did he meet a bear?
I can really imagine that moment of meating the couple and I see why that's scarier than a bear, but being initially more scared by something doesn't mean it's not a preferable situation, if you think about it.
@@hexcodeff6624 I have met a bear at a national park. It was not scary.
@@UnconventionalReasoning What kind of bear?
@@hexcodeff6624 Black bear. The type I am most likely to encounter in the US.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Black bears aren't scary, so you are just stating the obvious and I don't think a lot of people are imagining a black bear when considering which to choose and no one specified where in the world this would take place so if you want to go by concrete numbers, you gotta go by all of the bears and see how many there are total.
Ok bare with me here
I was confused about this too until my friend explained it to me. With a man, you don't know if they're a predator or not and there's no way to know exactly what you can do to make sure you're safe. With a bear, you know what to expect and you can follow some pretty easy steps to ensure your safety (making yourself big and loud, carry bear spray, etc.).
Sure, but which is more likely to happen when they're selected at random? Is a random man more likely to attack you than a random bear?
I understand the feeling, but take like 2 seconds to think about it choosing a bear over a random man is FAR more likely to result in you getting harmed.
Not really. Bears aren't robots and don't all act the same. There is no way you could know how the other party would react. If she really wants to have men listen, she can be polite and have a normal conversation, not open with what is easily readable as an indirect insult. You can't demand empathy if you aren't willing to extend any first.
@@zacharychristy8928 do you really not understand how metaphors work???
@@suzbone this isn't a metaphor, it's a hypothetical question. You don't understand either, apparently.
@zacharychristy8928 good thing there's no rule that hypotheticals can't also be metaphors, because there are tons of them around 😉 lolololol
Way too many guys saw the hypothetical as "Would you rather 1v1 a man or a bear?" which was never the point of the topic
Then whats the point of the scenario if not to imply that some sort of violence could occur. Is it whos more cool, cus then im choosing the bear
@@kaydenjones3183 the point is that the bear is generally preferable because at least you know what you're getting into. The whole point is that bears are predictable, men and by extension humans, are not. As a trans woman myself I understand the fear of being alone around unknown men. Try as you might to say that not all men are predators, the fact of the matter is that one in five women have been sexually assaulted in their life by a man.
@@ValTheVillain you have more of a chance against a man than a bear in this scenario, assuming that the man is bad. I see alot of people talk about both options as a survival scenario and you stand alot of chance against your average guy
@@ValTheVillain having no context for a scenario like this really sucks because it just becomes a what if for the man option.
@@ValTheVillain Wild animals are absolutely not predictable. Actually touch some grass for once, holy fuck.
The argument is that the worst a dangerous Bear can do is kill and eat you, while a dangerous man will do so much more fucked up shit.
Yeah like ask you out while being unattractive
Exactly. Men have, historically, done everything horrible to women, including killing and eating. Anyone getting defensive over this hypothetical on women choosing the bear need to have their hard drives investigated and I’m not kidding.
I mean they’re not really being “dropped in” as dangers which is why we can make the case that the man option is not dangerous. Just a random man in a forest.
The problem is that it seems like some people heard "which scenario makes you feel more scared" and some heard "which choice is more statistically likely to have the worse outcome"?
Because obviously it's psychotic to weigh the risks statistically and think you're more likely to be harmed by choosing a man. But people are awful with statistics. It's also obviously really important for people to think about why being alone with a random man is a terrifying scenario to some people.
Honestly it's just shit reading comprehension all around. If you respond to "think about how this makes me feel" with "the statistics say you're wrong" or vice versa, you're just being obtuse for no reason. Everyone thinks they're entitled to be listened to ad nauseam without doing any for themselves.
Like what, force you to watch a Zack Snyder film?
Adum got it instantly: people haven't seen Grizzly Man but have seen Friday the 13th and Halloween etc... if "evil bear in woods" was common trope in popular media, the answers would be different
You're assuming that women are responding based on tropes in popular media, rather than the aggregate lived experiences, theirs and the women in their community.
@@UnconventionalReasoning deducing, not assuming. Because if they were responding based on their "aggregated lived experience" they'd realize 1.they haven't had any long term interactions with wild bears to make the comparison in the first place and 2.that the near entirety of all their interactions with men have not been as bad as being in a helpless situation with an uncontrollable wild animal.
Yall be living in the woods if men were as bad as yall pretending.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Women aren't a hivemind, so yes. Let's not pretend media tropes don't affect general cultural perception of things, like how people are more afraid of sharks than bears.
@@mdude3 You think women do not talk to each other about their experiences? Or the experiences of their female friends and relatives? They aren't a hivemind, but they are a network of information exchange.
Media trope only exist because of a hivemind aspect.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Women, as with everybody else on the planet, respond based on a lot of factors that aren't just what other women have said. For example, the phrasing of a question which can imply an "acceptable" answer, general societal values such as what is or isn't okay to joke about, who is posing the question, and knowledge of the actual topics asked about, as most people don't have encounters with bears.
If you don't think the question the wife asked was meant to goad a specific reaction then you're playing dumb. Like, she straight up says as much.
He brought up Grizzley Man but forgot that the main reasons why Timothy Treadwell was killed were because he repeatedly broke the national park's safety regulations, including but not limited to refusing to carry bear spray, repeatedly harassing the bears and habituating them to human contact, and staying in the park way longer than he should have in a time when bears were eating as much as possible before hibernation. What happened to him was horrible but it was 100% preventable.
Koalas aren't bears Scoot
Scoot has passed now so sorry but he wont see this
The point isn't literally the strength of either of them, but to make it clear that every woman has a horror story about a man and therefore are more cautious.
People are more likely to judge or doubt a woman reporting a man than a bear.
Also bears really have to be cornered to even think of attacking a human.
It's weird YMS specifically points out Grizzly Man since that guy lived with bears for years without getting attacked.
He was even making the bears more vulnerable to humans.
That's not true, bears are predatory and have been known to attack for literally no reason. Not to mention, in this hypothetical, you are alone in the woods which is the most likely case for a bear to maul you. Bear attacks are increasing, likely due to deforestation, increasing hunger attacks. Native Americans would never hunt bears alone (more like 8-10 people) and treated it like going to war. In areas where Grizzlies are prominent like California, they didn't hunt alone much at all for fear of bear attacks. So with all their experience, hunting weaponry, and physicality, they didn't treat them like they "really have to be cornered" to be dangerous
Yeah tell that to the Grizzly Man, dawg
"People are more likely to judge or doubt a woman reporting a man than a bear" This doesn't change anything in the rational of the hypothetical. You are alone in the woods, who are you going to tell about the bear attacking you? Peter?
Adum, I think it's difference between picking between a real familiar threat and one you've never experienced and is entirely foreign. Logically they are obviously wrong. But emotionally they are stabbing at something very real in our culture: the prevalence of male violence against women.
This is incredibly true, but I think we have to analyze through both lenses.
Yes, it says a lot that women would be so scared of a random man that they'd pick a bear. It also says a lot about how the same women are ascribing the worst attributes of a tiny fraction of a group to the group as a whole, to the point that they'd choose something totally irrational.
It speaks to the idea that in some cases, we're accepting, and even encouraging of prejudices towards some groups without stopping to think about them. For some reason, we're expected to examine and challenge our prejudices when it comes to LITERALLY any other group of people, but for some reason, in this case where people's preconceptions lead them to make an obviously irrational choice, it's the people they're pre-judging that need to do the self examination.
If you took scoot's suggestion and replaced the hypothetical with "a bear vs a random black man" I think the answers would largely be the same, but people would be a little less quick about telling "all black men" they need to examine how people's fear of them is their fault.
You could say ALL the same things about the "random black man" hypothetical as the "random man" hypothetical (in terms of women's fear of assault and experiences with it) but people feel a lot more comfortable attacking "men" as a class than they do the intersection of "men" and one other group they're NOT allowed to attack.
@zacharychristy8928 I mean, I don't disagree. I think it's fair to say that the meme is obviously based in a prejudice against men. Like I think logically it's wrong to hold the position and that the meme is obviously inflammatory and a bit mean. On the other hand it's worth remembering men as a class hold more institutional and cultural power than women, this meme is not going to lead to real violence like incel memes about "femoids".
Personally, I think that it's important to keep talking about male violence towards women and people like Nicole Brown. I've seen this meme be a great jump off point for that kind of conversation. I've also seen this meme alienate a ton of guys. I think it's a mixed bag, and a kind of dumb meme that'll probably die soon anyway, but the issue it was poking at won't.
@@averyrathbun3859 Sure, but why is "institutional and cultural power" being considered when we're talking about a hypothetical situation where you're removed from society and culture and placed in the woods with either a man or a bear? Why is that entering our analysis at all? Is the question about what IS smart, or what FEELS right?
I would never try and argue a woman out of FEELING like the bear is the right choice, but we need to be able to say "I feel X but I know the smart choice is Y". What keeps happening here is that one side says "clearly the smart choice is Y" and the other side is saying "how can you say that when there are good reasons for feeling like it's X"
My point is that these are not the same arguments. Men's cultural or institutional power doesn't change the safety of bears, and a bear's relative aggression does not make men's institutional power inconsequential. What is NOT okay is this thing that keeps happening where we pretend that feeling hard enough about something makes the rational choice irrelevant.
I think the world would just be better if we sought to understand. I feel like I can understand the "bear" answer really well. Id probably even pick it myself in some situations! But it also seems like I'm being asked to have lots of patience, understanding, and receptiveness without any reciprocation at all. Im expected to be compared to a wild animal solely because of biological traits I didn't choose for myself, and feel ashamed for it, and it's all predicated on an irrational belief that having this trait makes me dangerous and scary.
If it were literally ANY other trait besides "man" people would rightfully be disgusted at this comparison.
@zacharychristy8928 institutional and cultural power DOES matter though. I brought that point up to show how this kinda mean meme towards men isn't likely to cause real world harm like the hundreds of memes out there comparing women to animals. My point is it's not really worth getting heated over.
We can logically discuss how bears are more dangerous and I agree, but isn't it also just kinda concerning that women are scared of running into men alone in the middle of nowhere. Doesn't that make you wonder what that says about our culture?
The reason I'm not chastising women about this is the same reason I don't chastise people with trauma for being illogical. Also cause in some sense this is ragebait meant to get the ball rolling and I'm not easily baited. I can simultaneously understand why women are afraid of men and think choosing the bear is illogical.
@@averyrathbun3859 No, for the purposes of an isolated hypothetical, the power structures don't matter. That's the point of an isolated hypothetical, to control for those kinds of conditions. Im not saying they dont matter IN GENERAL Im saying they clearly don't matter for making the choice in the hypothetical. Clearly.
And you're perfectly demonstrating the entire point Im making. I am capable of understanding why a woman would choose the bear. I understand where that fear comes from. I have listened, and my understanding maps perfectly onto what Im hearing women say.
You have not done the work. You are not seeking to understand. You are putting imbalanced expectations on people and then saying that one side is more entitled to their emotions than the other, then saying that any backlash to that imbalanced expectation is proof that the imbalance is justified.
Social justice doesn't mean that we need to tell men to shut up and stop complaining when people belittle their problems. Keep trying though, Im sure that'll reach them and not contribute to more animosity and less mutual understanding.
a bear in the woods is a bear in its own home, a man in the woods is far from help
I think its ragebait but its also super duper funny, but also also I think if the question is framed "would you rather find a bear in the woods or a strange man in the woods" the idea of a bear in the woods isnt a crazy idea, but a strange man in the woods, just hanging out in the woods, whats that guy doing there? He dont live in those woods
But if you're in the woods aswell you're also just randomly in the woods. What are you doing there? You don't live in the woods.
The idea of a "strange man in the woods" feels dangerous because of media and horror movies and other random crap like that. In reality, the sort of person who just "hangs out" in the woods is probably a hiker or someone with survival skills banging rocks and building huts and foraging for food and shit. If it's a situation where you are lost in the woods, that's exactly the kind of person you would want around. Bear or no bear.
A hiker? A camper? A lost tourist? A survival enthusiast? A park ranger?
I get that scary movies and true crime are a thing but like...dawg not every random person is out to get you. Even if you're a woman!
Let this mark the beginning of the radical discourse that men are people too
Rip scott
A lot of people appear to be defending the women who would rather be in the woods with a bear because most of us rightfully saw the argument as rage bait and didn't want to get involved.
The people who picked man aren't as invested in defending their position.
Instead they just move on with their lives.
I don’t think it’s necessarily it’s in spite of all men I just think the trend is shining a light on women’s trauma surrounding sexual assault ( even if some are being hyperbolic with reasonings ) I think it’s way more productive to look at why so many women are repeating this instead of just going “ well I don’t think they thought this one out well enough” it’s not supposed to be a genuine hypothetical, more so just demonstrating how much of an issue sexual assault is and how women are more likely to be assaulted by a male than experience any other form of violence in nature
What if it is an grizzly bear through?
Anyone else see that AI horror story thing about a shapeshifting bear monster that was made entirely to be like “women this is what you get for picking bear hahaha”? That was weird.
It's like being asked if you would rather wake up an hour earlier for work for less pay, or drink a vile of poison. Most people would pick the poison.
Adam really does not understand the multiple layers this questions carries and I’m really upset that he can’t fathom why women would choose a bear over a man. It’s not about the statics of whether that random man would be a killer/rapist it’s the capabilities that he has as a man of being a vile human being and people bring up cases like the junko furuta. The bear on the other hand might either ignore you or kill you and bear attacks are rare occurrence.
Bears literally don't kill their food before they start eating them. Bears are WAY more likely to violently attack you than a random man. There's no actual argument for preferring the bear other than "I would like to die in one of the most physically painful ways possible."
@@queequegtheater6093 if you do a quick search bears rarely attack people. Men are statistically more dangerous in many other ways then a bear will ever be. 1 in 5 women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime and usually men commit these awful assaults. I want people to understand that living as a women (especially women who have experienced sexual abuse and assault), fearing men every time you go outside is something that we live with forever. Please understand where the reasoning is coming from.
You literally made it about statistics though. The question inherently implies that you are considering which one you find more dangerous, which is something that can be informed by more than emotional experience.
You are more likely to be killed by a cow than lightning. Now, choose between being trapped with a cow and being trapped in a thunderstorm with no shelter
The thing that's frustrating is 5% or less of men want to harm women, as a man harmed by other men I get women's point. I still choose the man though.
I think It's a pretty dumb question to ask I think the obvious answer is a bear whatever you're a man or a woman because bears don't really attack unless you provoke them, just don't act like an idiot.
Depends on the bear
Literally false if the bear is just hungry, pissed or near it's cubs.
And are you saying that bears are going to leave you unharmed at a higher rate? Probably also not true.
Idk where all these self-confident internet bear experts are coming from who say that bears are safe.
@@spencerlane415 We're talking about the average bear in normal circumstances, most bears won't attack unless unprovoked
@@zacharychristy8928 I literally googled It before I made this comment, also the question just says a bear; not one that is specifically provoked.
@@tea6011 And the average person will also not attack you. Let's say you're both actually lost in the woods. The other person WILL help you and work together to get out of there aswell.
As a dude myself, I'd actually pick bear as well. Mostly bc most bears species aren't these murder machines that a lot of media portray them as so unless I provoke it, it would most likely leave me alone.
Another thing is that the original question I heard was formulated like "You're in the woods at night, what would you rather meet, a man or a bear" and the thought of stumbling on some random ass mfer doing god knows what at night in the middle of the forest creeps me tf out lmao.
Im sure the man would feel the same way though lmao
@@kaydenjones3183 Yeah, it becomes funny when you realise you are also another creepy dude walking alone in the dead of night in the forest lol
What if it’s a grizzly bear or a polar bear tho
@@user-mf1lo5fj6s Grizzly bear are kinda scary tbf (unless you are russian)
Then you are also either lying or insane.
I’m dead serious on picking the bear…
You are seriously dead
You should go to a zoo. You'll see how much of an abolute unit a bear can be.
@@vazpo you say that like it’s a bad thing. The bear kills me because I’m human, not a woman.
@@ang3l002 Do random men in the woods just go out killing women? Is that the implication here?
@@thepicausno5561 no, but the implication of being in the woods with some bear or man and one kills me, I’d rather the bear. The earlier comment I’m responding to insinuates that I will “seriously” die, but the bear wouldn’t relish in killing me and keep a trophy. The bear would not have its way with me before, during, and after killing me. The bear would maul me and rip my flesh from my bones while I’m still alive, not because of desire, but out of necessity. After people find me, they wouldn’t say “oh, but what was she wearing”, they would simply say “she was a victim of a bear attack”. So yea. You can think this is just the ramblings of some wackjob woman, but it’s the gods honest truth. In this silly hypothetical scenario, I would pick the bear… and a lot of other women would too.
But also if were assuming the bear is gonna kill people, we can assume the hypothetical man will be just as certain to kill people.
Id rather be eaten by a bear than let a man do stuff with my corpse. Id rather burn my bones to ash than let a man touch my corpse
You know bears hold you down and tear you apart while you're still alive right? People can do worse, but bears do that by default...
What kind of alien logic is that? The question is a man selected at random out of all men vs a bear. It's not a murderous man vs a murderous bear.
Bears are more likely to attack people violently than people are. This is very simple to understand.
@@zacharychristy8928 "Bears are more likely to attack people violently than people are" Nope. Men have killed more women than bears have. The statistics show that men are more dangerous to women.
Damn, even during Pride Month, us necrophiles can't take a break.
Maybe educate yourself, how about that?
It’s a patriarchy joke, not a “we hate men” joke. And if you think those are the same, you’re part of the problem. (Although, I trust that Adum knows better.)
While i get the rational argument about this, I've spoken to women who have hand on heart answered they'd rather the bear. There's a reason they're saying it which is what's driving the conversation about the hypothetical. It highlights the naivety of men to the anxieties women have about men (often rightly so). Appreciate YMS' point though and know you guys are only having fun
Oh please.
@@theCarbonFreeze Dude I work with women who are victims of rape. Everyday I see horrible stuff men do. If I put you in a room with a victim of domestic abuse and / or rape and you had a proper chat with them, you'd understand I assure you.
Also, women don't tend to have experiences with bears, but they do have experiences with men.
@@evanedwards2501 Ive been sexually assaulted by women. But nobody cares about that.
@@evanedwards2501 My last comment was banned i guess. But women perpetrate abuse too. Speaking from experience
i would assume women who are fine with the man choice didnt take part in the vote as much?
There's a good few women in the original video who pick man, but most of the answers were picking bear
Some women on tiktok did pick the men and then got a bunch of weirdos in the DMs s*xually harassing them and then changed their minds to bear again lol.
@@ciriknockoff5738 That's a funny story but it sounds a little too good to be true.
@@ciriknockoff5738That didn't happen lol.
@@wisemage0It's not. What happened is that they got shamed for being honest by privileged white women.
I mean as a man (or at least someone who has been raised as one lol gender hard) I think its not that deep.
The women saying Bear aren't lying or spiteful, they're just giving an answer from their gut rather than their head.
As a woman (I imagine) the thought of being trapped alone with a man with ill intent is a fear that has been drummed into you since childhood. The phrasing of "Being trapped alone in the woods with a man" triggers them to immediately imagine the worst case scenario: someone who uses your isolation and the desperation of the situation as an excuse to take advantage of you.
Most women don't have an ingrained visceral fear of bears bc that's just not something that comes up in daily life. Heck I know I don't have a visceral fear of bears, I had to think about the question for a little bit before I remembered exactly how dangerous bears can be.
Anyone treating this dumb hypothetical as something to get mad over is being silly imo, and sorry Adum but I'm including you in that category.
Adam sometimes has a bit of thick skull when it comes to women lol
Would rather be alone in the woods with a bear or a woman?
Christ, a bear. I wouldn't know how to explain to another human why I'm in the woods with them without feeling creepy
A bear, a big burly man in the woods could tear me apart any day 🥵🥵🥵
Mostly for me it’s the context. Like if I’m on a trail I expect other humans, but for whatever reason I would be in the middle of the literal woods I would expect a bear but not a man. I know what a bear’s about, not a man. I think I am way too quick to say man, like realistically a bear is more of a threat. Instinctually though I think it’s a tossup which I would be more scared of. I dont think a random bear would hunt me, maybe attack but not hunt. A man might hunt me. I’m a trans guy and cis men are scary to me for a lot of inferable reasons. I honestly am sussed out whenever I interact with a new cis guy. I also have trouble in large groups, have cptsd, anxiety, and autism- so there’s a lot going on there. It’s just scary not knowing if someone is going to be accepting or sexist or abusive because so many cis men have been allowed to grow up toxic. So yeah, I kinda can guess what a random bear in the middle of the woods is about, but not so much another human, let alone the gender that is statistically more likely to hurt me.
I think Adam is kinda missing the point, I don't think it's out of spite it's out of fear of the possibility, a bear will just eat you and there's a decent change you can scare it off, a man you don't know what he wants, why he's there, or even that you can scare him off
that being said this is a dumb ragebait argument that just reinforces sexism against men and women
I'm egalitarian with a lean towards being an MRA and I absolutely understand the thought process. Most bears aren't actually dangerous - in that most encounters with bears do not result in an attack, they have to be in a pretty tight spot to decide to go for a human most of the time. Bears have obvious body language and don't lie about their intentions. Bears can be scared off quite easily. Ask anyone who has spent a lot of time in the deep woods and they'd rather come across damn near any animal before another human being.
Only black bears can be scared off reliably. Stand up to a brown bear, it will likely take you up on the challenge. Polar bears will only see an easily meal.
What do you think the percentage of dangerous killers among male hikers is? Surely less than then the chance of a bear attacking you when you encounter it? I guess it depends a lot on the exact scenario of the encounter
@@Gurianthethat’s because there are far fewer bears than there are human males, especially on trails, and even with that fact, I’m actually not entirely sure if that’s even true in hiking trails with sizable bear populations.
@@GuriantheMight be true, but there are way more encounters with men than with bears, don't you think? It's just a statistical consideration. Just imagine this: you are on a forest path, bright day, you make a turn around a boulder - and just in front of you, you see a bear (brown/black bear). Wouldn't you be more scared for your life than if it was a male hiker? Wouldn't you try to run or scare it off? I'd be very surprised if you were doing the same with a man. But this is a very specific scenario, it depends how you interpret the question. I interpreted it this way: you encounter a bear in close proximity alone in the woods OR you replace the bear with a randomly chosen male from the population (or even just the population of men hiking alone). I hope in that case you'd rather choose the man? But maybe you interpreted the question way differently, in which case I'd be interested to know!
@@Gurianthe That is an entirely different scenario. The average American on a hike is more likely to die from choking on Ice cream than to be killed by a blue ringed octopus, yet most people wouldn't choose to put a blue ringed octopus in their mouth than an ice cream. I'm happy to tell you this but the average man is not a r@pist or a murderer, and bears in close proximity can be very easily spooked, or misunderstand a sudden or strange action or movement and try to defend itself against a potential threat it did not initially see. They are wild animals who are constantly aware of their own survival and are cautious of things outside of their comfort zone.
I'm sorry but if you genuinely think that you are in more danger being in the woods with the average man than the average bear, you are as deluded as someone like Posy Parker who feels more threatened in the bathroom with a trans woman than a cis man with a gun.
As a man, if i was choosing to survive i would probably pick bear.
But i am furry, and also love new situations(even if they would be my last) so i am choosing bear
I have better rage bait would you rather be stuck on an island with someone of the same sex as you but they have no supplies or a person of the opposite but they do have supplies
Would you rather be in the woods with a random man or Donkey Kong
I think what comes up is if I’m walking in the woods by myself and I see a random guy my brain is going to assume that this man is there to hard me. I would assume he has been following me and this is the end of my life. Unless they have a uniform on that indicates they are search and rescue, I am assuming the worst case scenario.
It’s not surprising to see a wild animal in its habitat. Most people prep themselves with bear mace or read up how to deal with a bear encounter.
Another thing is that it isn’t just random strange men that are a danger to women. Women are most likely to be murdered by their partners and women are more likely to be raped by someone they know. Even our own homes aren’t safe.
Isn't that assuming the absolute worst of a situation and another human though? Statistics can be useful but using them to write off a whole group of people is a known sketchy path
@@OkonkwoBigYams in survival mode you have to. We also have to remember that when victims say they didn’t take every little precaution they get blamed for their attack.
There is a lot of context in the question that men might not consider. Being a lone in the woods where you expect to be alone and come across a man raises a lot of questions on why he’s there. It’s not from a place that women hate men but have experiences with men that causes a lot of fear.
Bears will usually leave you alone if you keep your distance. Black bears especially will take off as soon as they see you.
@@meggerz5687 I think we can both agree that the vagueness of the question doesn't help. I personally think a proper brown bear is the default bear most people think of. Also, are both the man and the bear aware of your presence or not is important. I dunno, I understand the feelings but answering "bear" then citing statistics seems just as fishy to me as citing crime statistics. Like it's a real statistic people use to uphold their prejudices. In a survival scenario where the bear is aware of your presence, I don't understand how anyone chooses it. That's just me though, I obviously don't speak for all men.
@@OkonkwoBigYams a bear wether brown or black will most likely see you and think you’re weird and will run away.
It’s not even a matter of statistics but a matter of what scenarios plays in our heads when we get asked the questions. What has society taught us about being alone with a bear vs being alone with a strange man in a place where no can help you or even hear you scream. The question taps into a lot of women’s personal experiences.
It was a dumb internet thing and internet incels waaaaaaay over reacted.
No, its actually kinda hurtful to hear that half the human race considers you worse than a wild animal. Im sure playing along with it has got you lots of pussy too
Their reaction was a massive self-report.
My comments keep getting shadow banned. If it were the other way around wed never hear the end of women complaining about it
@@theCarbonFreezei saw something on reddit where they asked men if they’d rather be stuck in the desert with a woman or a dog, and the men (that they showed) all chose dog. I agreed, but i also prefer the dog over another man.
@@theCarbonFreezeyou're the reason to pick the bear
Women go for the bears because they live longer than tigers.
(Thought I'd start the first joke. Scoot liked dark humour so he'd appreciate this one)
Are you and the man hiking, or do you teleport into the woods with him? What kind of bear is it? Is the bear hungry?
This whole argument is supposed to be about women's issues, but everybody gets lost in the nuances of the hypothetical.
Many women can't seem to understand why calling the average man a violent abuser might be taken personally.
Many men can't seem to understand why they might be part of the reason women feel that way.
This sort of mirrors the "Kill All Men" rhetoric seen online. The intent is to provoke a reaction and start a conversation.
My issue with this whole discussion is the whitewashing of grizzly bears.
If you had close encounters with as many bears in your life as men, you wouldn't pick the bear. You'd already be dead!
(There I go getting lost in the hypothetical... it's easy to see why this debate went viral)
The question itself isn't what's frustrating, it's how deliberately misleading and confusingly phrased it is; the kind of wording you use when you only want your own answer or nothing at all.
Also, men in particular are frustrated because (correct me if I'm wrong) I guess "man + woods with no other context" meaning "violent unhinged rapist" is such a universal constant in humanity that you'd be insane to have anything else come to mind first, like idk, being ripped to shreds by a huge wild animal.
But it was never a "would you rather" question. The original scenario was just "women will, on average, choose X over Y" as a test of empathy. The scenario was not asking women anything. The decision was assumed and it was asking men if they could understand why women would come to that conclusion.
And overwhelmingly they could not.
The problem is that the question is utterly unclear and so people answer based on their gut feelings instead of applying any kind of reason. It's why gallup polls ask 5 versions of the same question, so you can gauge how much people preconceptions around different words in the same context affects their reasoning.
For example, encountering a black bear deep in the Appalachians in a good season for foraging? I might be less afraid of that than a random other person 200 miles from civilization. A grizzlt with cubs though? You'd be a psychopath to pick anything different.
Even the first words of the question get interpreted differently. Nobody asked which one you'd be more scared of, or which one the cops would believe, they asked which you would rather see, which some people didn't interpret as a statistics question.
Also, people are just really intuitively shit with statistics, which makes alll of it even worse.
As a man I would also pick the bear. Oh no he doesn't get it.
I understand that the point of the question is to highlight how fearful many women are of men, which sucks but I get it, however the unintended outcome for a lot of people seems to be that lots of women are so fearful of men that they’ll make irrational harmful decisions.
I thought this originally was men trying to dunk on women and then got shocked that women were saying bear. I saw this originally a guy going around asking women would they rather be in a forest with a near or man. And then he was shocked by all the women say bear.
dont forget the insane amount of men saying women that chose bear should be maulled by bears
@@erickmallmann1487 "insane amount" you mean like 2 people on twitter
@@erickmallmann1487tbf i don't expect people to respond kindly to a bad faith argument. Isn't it really just open misandry?
@@erickmallmann1487 Don't expect people to react kindly to blatant sexism
@shadesteel9247 Depends, since my first interaction with these arguments was a guy just posting his drawings of women getting violently mauled by a bear. Like let's be honest here, most people picking bear are exaggerating. For those being honest, I feel more bad than anything since they seem to have bad experiences with dudes in their lives. It's a dumb hypothetical that people are taking the reactions of way too seriously.
I'm a big fan of Adum's content and I've never commented I don't think, but I pick bear. Every woman I know picks bear. The worst thing the bear will do is end my life. Men? Men have all the time in the world to fantasize about anything and everything they would do, could do to a woman alone in the woods. The bear is an animal and I'm on its turf. The man is my fellow human and it should be a no brainer, right?
I know it's hard to consider unlived experiences, but consider asking women, why?
I do find it strange as a gay guy that women read books where the male in the romantic relationship is an abusive asshole and glorify these characters (Edward Cullen, Christian Grey, every male Coleen Hoover character) but then woman also say “men are so toxic, I choose the bear.”
@@dancegregorydance6933 As a gay woman, I have no idea what this comment has to do with mine. But ok.
"Men have all the time in the world to fantasize about anything and everything they would do"
Would a bear not also do this, though? We know that other animals have imagination, humans aren't the only ones. Wild animals can get really freaky.
@mdude3 No, we have no documented proof bears fantasize about anything. But we have documented proof of men who fantasize about doing heinous things to women. Again, I know it's hard to get passed the literal question, but critical thinking should lead you to wonder: how many women have personal horror stories about men that they would choose the bear?
@@Huddyvonschland We do have documented proof that other animals have imagination. This is expressed through things like curiosity. Anyway, if you think anyone here was 'stuck' on the "literal question" then you didn't even understand why the question was posed in the first place. It was very clearly posed to be instigating, because the woman knows it's a dumb question when you're expecting honest answers. It was specifically asked so that she would get other women to agree with her and that's it. The question totally breaks down when thought through realistically, which is what she was giving her husband shit for.
Yeah it may not be sensible or logical but i dont think men realize the social conditioning women go through to be afraid of men from early adolescence. We're literally taught from teachers, parents, older siblings, and it's perpetuated in the media that if you're a woman alone with a man, you have reason to fear for your life. This conditioning is perpetuated moreso by women on a personal level and more by male writers and showrunners on the media level. On top of that, the average lass doesn't get spoken to frankly about hunting or the dangers of the wilderness - it's just assumed we won't be put in that situation. This is coming from a city dwelling, part Okinawan part white internet addict btw. Ofc bear is gonna be chosen, there's less anxiety surrounding the idea of a bear bc I'm not fking forced to think about them all the time.
Sounds like we need to stop demonizing men
@@theCarbonFreeze
Sounds like we need to stop victim-blaming and start educating boys better about respecting girl's boundaries so that they don't grow up to behave like f*cking animals.
@@theCarbonFreezeWoman: "I've been taught to be cautious of men as they are physically stronger and are statistically more likely to beat/kill/SA me."
You: "this is demonizing men!"
@@theCarbonFreeze sounds like men need to stop hurting women
@@ingloriousbaxter Both things are true
The woods are more dangerous than the bear IMO. A better hypothetical is "If you're lost in the woods, would you rather be alone or have someone with you?"
For all the people defending this on the grounds that it can start conversations, I have to ask why you can't just start it through any other way than something that you know most men will be insulted by even if you don't mean it that way?
Ask yourself: If i was in their position, would i want to be approached with this topic in this way? Empathy goes two ways. You have to have empathy that they don't want to be insulted if you wnat them to have enough empathy to consider how society may be slanted against you in this area.
yeah yeah man is the obvious choice, but for the women saying bear I understand the sentiment I do. with a bear you could play dead and even if you don't make it you've got the solace of being nature's casualty but with a guy it's kind of up in the air and he could have the worst possible intentions. testosterone is one helluva drug it doesn't take a leap to see the kind of violent mating rituals they got in the animal kingdom and see how maybe that might've carried through to basic female instinct just a little bit.
I would say that most women should just try to empathize and get men vulnerable first before trying to get the men to think about this issue rather than opening with what can easily be ready as an indirect insult. Basically, have a polite conversation rather than trying to get a dig.
Oh…
Gotta disagree with Adam's take on this one. For starters, the hypothetical is "encounter in the woods", not "be locked in a small cage". Most women are under the impression that a bear will probably just walk away unless it's starving or protecting cubs. On the other hand, men are a wild card situation. Just because probably 95% of men would be fine doesn't mean women wouldn't be concerned about the 5% that would do something heinous.
And frankly the fact that there are so many men taking personal offense to this stupid meme and acting like this is some kind of attack on all men kind of proves their point. Especially the ones that then go on to fantasize some hypothetical woman's mauling via bear.
so women are concerned that 5% of men will do something heinous but 5% of bears won't be starving or protecting cubs? sounds like women are bad at math
I love how when men hurt womens feelings we gotta stop the world but when its men, our hurt somehow justifies how its ok to hate us. So tiring at this point
I mean, it sounds like Adam was just honestly answering the question. The same way one can rationalise the bear as being more safe than a man 'because bears aren't looking to maul random people', the same could obviously be said of men.
You used the 5%/95% thing, (I assume that's an exaggeration, far less than 5% of the average dude is going to randomly attack you if you bumped into them in the woods...) but it's completely rational to say, 'well, I don't agree that bears are less safe than the average man'. If it's a hypothetical question or anecdote about a situation (or stupid meme as you called it) that is at 50% of the world's expense, can you really be surprised when all the 'men's rights activist' weirdos crawl out of the woodwork to argue against it?
so women are concerned that 5% of men might be violent but not concerned that 5% of bears might be starving or protecting cubs?
math is hard huh?
@@theCarbonFreezeif you're hurt by being passed over for a bear. You're the exact red pilled incel the meme was created for
Mentioning koalas (a marsupial) is the cherry on top of this incredibly bad take of the Man vs Bear hypothetical.
It's called a Koala bear, who is to say what is and isn't eligible here?
A dead bear is still a bear, but clearly not part of the hypothetical.
The hypothetical is dumb rage bait and their mistake was taking it seriously
@@hexcodeff6624 Just because you and others call them koala bears does not make them bears. They are koalas and they're marsupials with a pouch for their young. A simple Google search must be too difficult for you.
@@xghoulishgalx I don't call them Koala bears, I call them Koalas, as I know them to be "Beuteltiere", in German.
My point is that the people who are being asked here and whose answer was the focus of the conversation might have considered Koala's as a possible occurrence in the hypothetical, so considering it isn't really wrong just because the terminology isn't correct.
When I first heard of this meme, I took it as... what's the word... unfriendly or offensive towards women. Because it's just so dumb to pick a wild animal over another person.
Then when i figured out the meme was supposed to be taken as Adum and Scoot describe it here, to get men riled up... I still wasn't offended. To me it just seemed like a pretty useful filter to reveal the dumb spiteful chicks.
Go. Go to the bear. Please! I'll be over here in the OTHER woods, with the reasonable women, camping out, not being mauled.
Here is something that i will say as a young man that often goes hiking and is alone in forests; i sympathise with women a lot here. When in nature, i fear the presence of other humans way more than of animals-
Humans can be cruel, weaponised and lay traps. They can follow and stalk you Home or wish you harm for no apparent reason. Animals work on easier, more tribal levels. They more often than not will look to avoid unessescary conflict and act in patterns that largely allign with instincts and momentary impulses.
I find it absolutely wrong to accuse such a large amount of women to simply act out of spiteful hatred, as you claimed they do. Yes, i perhaps may agree that there is somewhat of a hyperbole going into this argument, but i would have thought that at least someone like you would be able to understand that there is something significant to be said about the sheer amount of women who choose a bear over a man- to simply deny that or to disqualify the sentiment and saying that women are just dumb or willfully ignorant is neither helpful nor is it very respectful, i think.
This is what men have been doing though a lot within this conversation; trying to un-emotivise it. Pretend like the topic is a purely academic one that is about simple logic and rationalism, when it obviously is trying to speak in other terms that are more about social criticism and gender-norms and gendered-violence than just trying to rationalise or quantify the possible harm that could be dealt by a bear vs a man.
Its one thing to find this conversation a little bit silly, it admittedly is- but maybe thats also part of it. To just fully condemn women as a whole as stupid is far more than reductive and just broadens the gap in the understanding of the other side.
Bad take, adum :/
Why are you just assuming the average person in the woods is some cruel stalker with psychopathy who lays traps and shit? Like yeah people may act emotionally but that doesn't make it any less irrational, it's fine to be irrational but to then slither into a corner to justify yourself is not fine. Also, yes it is wrong to demonise women for it but it's also just as bad to immediately demonise the men as cruel. I disagree with Adam that most people are doing it to be spiteful, I just think it's people being irrational and giving the bear the benefit of the doubt by making it into a scared animal and turning the man into some criminal mastermind of the trees. When did he condemn women as a whole and not just giggle with his friend as ask if people are really that spiteful?
I love how you claim bad take, when he was answering the question straightforwardly. Why not human vs bear? This is gender specific vs a general animal, what about a female bear with cubs?
@@Mr_Monolith "but that doesn't make it any less irrational" lmao it is NOT irrational to think a man could hurt you when hiking alone, because IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED. This isn't a fantasy scenario hypothetical for women. There's a huge list of precautions women have to take when running trails alone, or walking consistent paths outside that could be monitored by a stranger. It's not irrational to understand that women can be overpowered by men in a fight, and women are not irrational for thinking ahead to defend themselves. It's better to assume the worse, because when you're dead, people will blame you for being a stupid woman who shouldn't have been alone in the woods anyway.
@@kupotenshi people have also been attacked by bears in the woods, the irrationality is not the fact that men have ever attacked women but the benefit of the doubt being "bear scared animal; human cunning pyschopath" is a disingenuous and unbalanced answer and clearly relies on the immediate assumption that the singular man who you randomly encounter in the woods wants to kill you and not a hippie, a guy who owns a cabin or a guy who likes hiking.
"I find it absolutely wrong to accuse such a large amount of women to simply act out of spiteful hatred, as you claimed they do." I agree, but then why are you doing exactly that to men? Seems hypocritical
What the hell is a random man doing in the woods?
What the hell are YOU doing in the woods. Your just as much of a weirdo to the other guy in this scenario
Do people not hike, fish, or camp anymore?
Chilling with a bear
Hiking
@@shadesteel9247 Every random -person- man is on a Texas Chainsaw Massacre apparently.
Its not rage bait. I get why Adam's confused but the answers ive heard are valid. The absolute worst a bear can do is brutally kill you, but there are fates worse than death. The horrors of all forms of torture are beyond any bear attack. Even if a bear rips you apart, it likely isnt doing so to be sadistic, or to enjoy your suffering.
It's obviously crazy to hear someone chose bear AT FIRST but when you really start to think of all the possibilities it's not that hard to understand.
So a better hypothetical is "would you rather be mauled to death or tortured"
But that's not divisive enough to generate clicks so you have to ask an audience of exclusively women on whether they'd be killed by a bear or a disgusting wild animal (men)
Not really. If anyone got bitten by a bear, they would completely change their minds immediately if they picked the bear.
It was a Twitter rage bait question that was posed solely to push a "erm men bad?!" angle.
I just spent the past few weeks hiking in the forests and mountains of Maine, and almost all the people I met on the trails were old couples and families with their children. I only ran into a few people going alone, and they were all women. If you run into a random man in the forest, its most likely going to be a chill dude camping with his family, not a sex predator. To me the man is clearly the better pick than playing the bear species lottery.
Am a man and I'd choose the bear too
Why tho. You’re a man
@@kaydenjones3183 Freakier sex
@@kaydenjones3183 He's clearly a Baldur's Gate fan.
Talking loudly will dissuade a black bear from actively encroaching on you.
A fair number of men can't be talked away from woman.
Real scenario: *”POP” man spawns.* “Yo where am i? I gotta get home”
*calls a cab*
All she has to do is start talking about astrology and boom, he's gone
This is a terrible argument because it relies on the assumption that the guy would even do anything to the woman. Most people aren't trying to hurt you, the bear is.
@@thepicausno5561 That has nothing to do with my argument. I've retorted the oversensitive stance that women assume men are grapists with simply unwanted advances and other such nonconsensual social interactions. A black bear has never argued that that modern humans make it difficult for a black bear to pick up humans or have one night stands with humans. The average black bear does not believe itself owed interaction and that a human is a female dog for not reciprocating. The average black bear does not cat call or pinch the buttocks of a passing human. The average black bear does not tell humans that it would look prettier if the human smiled more. The average black bear most likely is unable to process social cues, but if a human it has been following 15 feet away for an hour starts making loud noises in its direction it's going to climb up a tree, not defend its actions even in the face of a police officer telling them to go away.
@@granfalloon9848 nope! You're completely wrong about everything you said.
Most men wouldn't NEED to be scared away, because they wouldn't do anything. Many more bears probably would.
You're just really bad at understanding probabilities.
This just seems like one of those cases of acceptable bigotry towards men because this question wouldn't fly if it was black man vs bear, which would be unacceptable bigotry. Although, honestly? If as a man you're bothered by this response by women, you probably just need to unironically man up and have a tougher skin.
_"I play both sides so that I'll always come out on top."_
Frankly I wish women were a little more considerate about this. I'm all for women sharing their experiences and discussing the fears they might have but they should have found a healthier way to discuss their trauma, and not one that unfairly insults half of the population because of some bad apples.
Remember, Bears don't bother to kill their food before eating it
So when it turns on you, its just going to start eating you alive
There's no "debate", it's an ignorant statement that people responded negatively to, that's it. Downplaying it, passively agreeing with it and calling people who don't like it incels isn't going to change that.
A woman at my university was killed by a man in the woods in broad daylight. I have seen black bears roaming around the streets in Florida, the worse they did was knock over trash cans looking for food. Bear every time.
17 upvotes, holy moly this world is insane...
Yes, and that woman safely encountered thousands of men in her life that never harmed her, whereas you see a couple bears and assume they're all fine.
The point is that you and everyone else is terrible with statistics and youre choosing the best FEELING choice first based on nothing but annecdotal evidence.
If you want to say that the bear FEELS less scary, that's fine, but it's objectively the more risky choice.
@@zacharychristy8928 i used to think that saying that women function on emotion, not logic was a sexist thing, now i actually truly believe that.
@@kneza96BG I'm okay with people making a choice from an emotional perspective, I just can't stand it when they pretend the emotional perspective is the only one that matters when it pretty clearly isnt.
What if instead they said, “Would you rather run into a bear or a black man in the woods”?
What if it instead of a man it was a freaky man and he freaked all over the forest
That's actually funny because alot of people wouldn't answer man being afraid of being racist now
Then they wouldn't answer and they'd tell their friends you're racist.
I wanna see this British statistics for this question honestly. I think this question could show alot about how women view men in different countries
It's just very telling that a lot of the reactions I saw from men were them getting defensive, saying things like they hope the women not picking them get killed by a bear and saying "don't come crying to me, I won't be there to save you".
It's quite revealing of their own egos and their own fragile sense of masculinity, and also that they don't really give a fuck about women's safety.
I think the point is (or ended up being) that the fact that so many women would pick a bear over a man should get people talking about how unsafe many women feel around men, and that men need to reflect on that and be better instead of having angry knee-jerk reactions to criticism of male behaviour.
Maybe women should just talk about their experiences and try to empathize with men and have an actual conversation Instead of indirectly insulting men and then demanding empathy? I highly doubt that this question would be asked unironically by someone who wants to have a good faith conversation. They just want to get a dig.
@@VagabondRetro Women have literally been trying to talk to men.
Men keep shouting them down.
If you won't acknowledge how men abuse their power to silence women's voices, then maybe don't try to engage with the discourse.
The majority of women have to spend their entire lives trying to empathise with how men feel about everything, it needs to work both ways.
@@jonreededworthy7518 I am autistic and have had to drastically alter my mannerisms, the way I talk, dress, gesture, make facial ques, my talking habits, etc. in many ways that are arbitrary and that people could easily work around my whole life. I have had people take advantage and manipulate me, mistreat me, openly look at me with fear and disgust and insult me to my face and even physically harm me because they think it's funny to mess with the r*tarded kid.
However, I would never try to ask people to treat me better by saying that I am more afraid of them than a huge, wild animal. I understand the basic adult concept that empathy is something earned by giving it if you want it. I can't expect people to examine themselves if I am not willing to be respectful and mutually caring towards them. I ask only for what I give.
To address your points directly, I have tried to understand your points and even caveated I get why women would in good faith choose the bear, I just said that this hypothetical is a poor way to start a productive conversation as it is inherently flammatory and logically flawed even when presented in good faith. You have not even attempted to try to get me to understand. You just want to shame me into submission. I want an actual discussion to help the women around me bI don't want to be preached to without any chance to actually meaningful contribute. At best, you are arguing that women should be able to use this to vent, and if that was done privately I wouldn't mind. But that is not what is happening. Many spiteful, opportunistic people are using it for clout and dopamine hits. It may not be most women, but it's enough that I can't say that this doesn't appear to be poisoning the well.
To directly address your point, by your own admission, if women are going to have a harder time talking about their issues, shouldn't that be all the more incentive for them to try to do so in the best way possible? What is better than trying to connect with the men they care about and ask them for support and understanding?
If engaging with this hypothetical is not the most productive way to go about that, then asking you to find a way to have a productive conversation is, by your own reasoning, a necessity. Unless you want to imply that the vast majority of men don't have the emotional capacity to acknowledge that something wrong happened to someone they care about and engage in a conversation about that.
If the latter is your mentality, you are inherently arguing in bad faith. My request is one for mutual empathy and respect. I am asking you to be an adult and have an adult conversation. I am not demanding anything other than to be treated with respect as an adult, something some people have and will deny me for something I can notify help for my entire life from childhood to until I go into the grave. Something I know women are not always given. I just strongly disagree this hypothetical is going to help them at all in the long run.
So I guess the question is this: what do you think women need? To do what is best for them, or what gives them dopamine hits at the costs of alienating the people they need to talk to the most.
@@jonreededworthy7518I will open by saying there is one way this hypothetical can be used effectively: to vent privately with a comparison to empathize a specific point. However, it is useless the way you want to promote using it. You are demanding men smile so some out of touch, most likely white and privileged woman can rant about she finds them cringe while doing nothing beneficial to her at all.
I am autistic and have had people mistreat me my whole life. However, since I am an adult who cares about other people and wants to do what is best for all parties involved, I explicitly try to connect with people as I am telling them my issues so we can come to a mutual understanding. All I am demanding of women is for them to be smart and empathic and to act like adults. I want them to treat me with respect so I can help them and vice versa. I don't want to be told I am evil and cringe and need to apologize for something I cannot help while they don't offer any practical solution for me to help this. You are not promoting feminism. You are promoting shallow attempts at triggering men out of spite for dopamine hits.
Unless you want to imply that the vast majority of men don't have the emotional capacity to acknowledge that something wrong happened to someone they care about and engage in a conversation about that. You are inherently arguing in bad faith .
I want to help women by achieving a mutually respectful and beneficial dialogue that leads to concrete, effective actions to make their lives easier. You are seemingly unknowingly only helping grifters get clicks with rage bait, which is what this is with the way it is most commonly used.
@@jonreededworthy7518 I don't know why but YT keeps deleting my replies.
You are moving the goalposts about whether or not this is the most effective way for women to try to start these conversations into insinuating I am someone silencing women by asking them not to be inflammatory pricks? At best you are saying women should get vengeance, not justice, and I should just roll over and let them rant without questioning if they are doing more harm than good.
Seriously bad and verging on incelish take Adum
You know the other guy in the video is his boyfriend, right?
@wisemage0 that's Scoot not his boyfriend?
@@psi-blast 😏
Humans are way more dangerous than bears. Bears are bigger and stronger, yes, but you're _far_ more likely to be in danger from another human than a bear, even in the woods.
Yet we live in cities full of them. Brilliant logic, Sherlock!
Maybe that's why the crime rates are so high! We aren't living with bears!
why
Uh no, bears eat their prey alive. Look u women calls mom while being eaten alive by bear and cubs
You don’t really believe that because if that’s the case then why are you still in society and not with bears in the woods. It must be pretty terrifying to live every day with beings you consider more dangerous than an animal that can skin you alive in seconds. Also bears can withstand bullet and stab wounds while having enough strength to kill you while humans don’t.
@@akiman9368 I understand statistics. You apparently don't.
You really don't get it adam.
That's just dishonest.
@@rcurl44 how is it dishonest?. He literally doesn't understand the question.
@@belloutdoors5217because its disingenuous to act like the right answer for anyone is man. And why not human vs bear? Naturally people will take it negatively and see it as misandry without explanation.
@@shadesteel9247 why is it disingenuous when there are millions of women that pick bear unironically? You devalue women that much? Maybe listen to them instead of being a dismissive prick?
@@belloutdoors5217 "millions"? it was a tiktok video dude.
I also like the counter of: "as a man, would you talk about your feelings with a woman or a tree"
If you'd rather talk to a tree than an actual human being you need to see a psychiatrist.
@@OblivionFalls way to miss the point lmao
@@OblivionFalls This is why men pick the tree 🙄🙄🙄
I find it more telling that talking to another man about your feelings isn't even an option
@@OblivionFallsyour comment is why I would pick the tree 💀
How often has Adum approached internet arguements open and willing to learn? Why in this conversation does he doubt one sides sincerity?
Because one of the sides is obviously being insincere. Just replace "man" with "black man" and the intent becomes clear.
@@mdude3 Gender-based bigotry tends to be more socially acceptable than race-based bigotry.
I mean, depending on context, I would probably pick a bear over any other human. As long as it’s not a starved bear at the size of a Asian Sun bear or larger. I would definitely want to hang out with panda bears over even the least offensive kind of human.
The hardest choice to ask me personally would be;
“Would you rather be with a easily aroused very attractive nymphomaniac woman or a Disney talking animal bear that could become your best friend but was not anthropomorphic in any way?”
It’s clear that despite Adam claiming “I’m listening” he was already being dismissive from the word go and missed the point. For the people who answered “bear” (‘Cos plenty non-women actually do empathise with this) it’s or about painting the one gender with the same brush. It’s about legitimate traumas, shared experience, the cultural climate at large and everything women have to revolve their lives around for their own safety on a daily basis. Where it doesn’t matter if you’re a grown woman, a child, or a literal corpse and it won’t stop certain monstrous individuals from doing what they want because they feel entitled to or getting some sick pleasure from it. If you actually listen to a lot of people’s answers, it’s usually by “A bear wouldn’t….” Then proceeds with something very sadly real, and worse, common.
Some men get really offended and pull the “Not all men!” card, as if that’s ever being a legitimate counter-argument to anything being said. But we all know it’s only used as a way to ignore any points made, despite the severity of the subject matter. Kinda like what Adam is doing here.
Saying stuff like “Your one bad experience doesn’t mean you’re right” shtick applies to stuff like trying a new food, or visiting somewhere etc. You just don’t say that for shit like rape, kidnapping, stalking, murder, trafficking, mental and physical abuse.
But nah. The worst thing is that these ‘crazy’ and ‘spiteful’ women are just being so unnecessarily rude, right? 🙄
Found the white woman lol 😂😂
Give it a rest. We're all sick of it at this point
@@theCarbonFreezeyou're suck of it probably because you have grape fantasies. You're so mad red pill.
Why not human vs bear? Its perfectly understandable why he sees the argument the way he does. If it was woman vs bear and men were saying they would rather not be falsely accused that would rightfully get hate.
"Some men get really offended and pull the “Not all men!” card,"
What do you think years and years of hearing "all men are rapists, no exceptions" does to people?
But yeah, let's believe all women and ONLY women. How do you think I feel about the fact that no one believed me when I was raped by a woman? It's about people not about gender or sex. But for SO MANY poeple it's just about what women had to go through, because a man's trauma doesn't matter. Kinda like what you're implying here.
If its not sexist to ask if youd rather encouter an apex predator or a person of one of the two genders, then it shouldnt be racist to ask if youd rather encounter a person between two different races.
The dudes who toss rape jokes around for a good chunk of their content don't understand why the bear gets chosen so often.
Where do you live dude
@@kaydenjones3183 that's an incredibly ominous question considering the topic
@@RichardCox0 Nah its just that most people are very nice where i live. Im just curious on where these bad experiences with men come from.
@@RichardCox0 Oh i just realised they were referring to scoot and adum lol. "good chunk of their content" is a massive lie
I generally think that they are very funny even their “edgy” jokes about topics like SA and I also like other dark comedies that joke about similar topics like “always sunny in Philadelphia.” But Adum and his friends type of humour combined with this take on the topic has me feeling uncomfortable too tbh. Ironically watching Adum’s stuff is really comforting for me too, ive been processing trauma lately and I fell asleep watching him talk about his Disney trip for like three hours and I just found his vibe very comforting. But then when I watched this clip it gave me the ick honestly
Wow Adam look at all the incredulous white women you created how dare u
This idea that bears are 100% going to maul, or hurt you if encountered in the woods is equally if not more absurd than the premise that a man is inheranty dangerous. The question is if you were walking in the woods alone would you rather see a man or a bear. The man is inherntly out of place. Ive been in the woods and seen a bear and walked away. But ive been in the woods and seen hikers, and they've forced an interaction, and one time they thretened to call the cops on me for smelling like marijuana in a state where its legal. Im non binary and i would rather see a bear in the woods 100% ofthe time if it meant i never had to see nother hiker. This trancends gender for me, we need to treat strangers better, dont bug people if you dont know them. But aside from that i would still not feel safe if i was alone and a dude came lumbering out of the woods.
Any man genuinely getting upset that a woman would choose a bear over them needs to have their hard drives searched. I’m not kidding.
White knight
Searched for what?
The argument wasn't over 'them' though, it was 'wild animal vs literally 50% of the human race'.
Not sure what the harddrive thing is about but whatever it is, I doubt such a response would guarantee the illicit material you imply would be found (not to mention I'm not sure how that's even related lol)
@@theCarbonFreezeok red pill boi
@@bilalsadiq1450he means men thst get offended by this are probably red pill incel rapists and I agree
I am disappointed to see that you missed the point on this. It is about how often women (not just white women) have encounters with men that could put them in danger. Especially complete strangers in an area where there's no one around to help.
This shouldn't be difficult. It is about how unsafe women feel on the daily. Walking on the street or just being around those who can overpower them and force themselves onto them. Something which is extremely common for us. Plus, it's not like men can't kill women by beating the shit out of them. So why trust a stranger in the woods when so many murders are committed against women for being women. Hope this helps, and stop pretending this is disingenuous, stop getting so easily offended, and try to put yourself in their shoes.
They're not missing the point. They know that's the point. That the woman was asking that question knowing women would answer emotionally and that her husband would answer realistically. Realistically, the majority of the women who say "bear" would regret that choice when posed with the situation actually. It's like how most of the people who say they would pull the lever in the trolley problem would never actually do that in real life for a variety of reasons.
I'd like to also add that a lot of gendered violence is especially targeted at POC women.
@@rekishimasemi1214 literally last week I heard about a poor 14 year old Native American girl that was found dead in the woods. 14 years old. That poor child...
No, he gets it: he just doesn't want to enable your paranoid delusions.
@@wisemage0 ah yes, delusions, because nothing ever happens when a woman finds herself alone in a faraway place with a man she doesn't know. It's always better to call them delusional instead of addressing the real issue of rapists and murderers. Yeah.
How about Man vs Bear vs trolley test.
Moral of the story: stop taking part and/or follow debates on the internet. In the end we all just get angry at each other and accomplish nothing
the environment of the woods plays a bigger factor than the bear or the man. A man in the woods is scary but a man walking downtown is normal and no cause for alarm. A bear in the woods is normal but a bear on the street would have people on high alert. If anyone was being honest about this the environment would be a factor, but this is actually just a psyop to normalize dehumanizing men.
@@Gurianthe 'MEN NEED TO STOP MURDERING'
a very brave and nuanced take that truly gets to the heart of the issues at play. Do you want your nobel peace prize to be gold or bronzed?
This is because we've been conditioned by horror movies and crime dramas to assume that every random person is out to get us.
If you see a strange man in the woods, he's probably a tourist or a park ranger.
I feel like if you ran into as many wild bears per day as you do men per day, there'd probably be a higher negative-encounter-per-capita for the former.
The real question is what type of bear? You can scare off a black bear. You can play dead with a grizzly bear. You can’t do anything against a polar bear.
It's the first time that I feel like Adam has been hypocritical. He didn't actually go and look into what the Crux of the argument was which was not being in a room but in the woods the Bear's natural habitat and he didn't look up the statistics of what bear attacks are versus men attacking women and this was primarily in the United States. So look up the United States statistics. Furthermore, how often the United States victim blames and how many people while they wouldn't attack a woman or assault a woman. Many many men in the United States make excuses for when men do and defend men when men do and that is why they would pick a bear in the woods than a man in the woods
For me: It’s bear.
I’ll take a strange potentially dangerous force that I know I can outsmart/outmaneuver over one that I know I probably couldn’t.
It’s about the woods being a setting in which there’s no immediate social consequences as well, like, if you were alone in a room with nothing I’d much rather be stuck with the man, but In the woods there’s allot of factors you can’t account for that make a strange man MUCH scarier.
Your not outsmarting or manevuring against a bear in a chase
This is a pretty bad take. You're in the bear's natural environment, it's very egotistical to assume you KNOW can "outsmart/outmaneuver" a bear, especially when you being alone is the most likely scenario that a bear will attack you
You know how fast and strong a bear is? It has homefield advantage too and always kills slowly, you will feel every part of your death.
With a man you have a chance to beat him if he's not big enough or if you get a chance to hit him with a log or rock or something
How the hell are you gonna outsmart a bear in the woods? By playing dead? Even then, odds are your chances with the male are safer
I understand the social setting thing, but it's a convincing enough argument
The whole thing is just stupid hyperbole
This might be the single dumbest comment I’ve ever read. Most of the people who vote bear are probably like you 💀