I graduated with a dissertation on the American avant-garde 67-69 and a huge part of it was centered around this LP, specifically side-2, which changed my life as an adolescent and it's still the greatest thing I've ever heard. There's a bit in this song when Moe goes into a beat for a short while. Germany has made an entire music scene out of that bit and they're still bragging about it 😂
Every genre that came after, owes everything to this song, and I think that is no exaggeration. I mean, their whole discography can be considered as the pinpoint, but if there ever was a center, this is it. And Moe is a piece of this puzzle.
@@CAMFORRESTER Yeah, not all. Their first two albums definitely. The third is more subtle in influence. Loaded is like a standard rock album, but still a great listen. Squeeze, while not really bad, I can't call it a Velvet album as it really had nothing of the band's spirit, just the name. But really, the "canonical four" as I like to call the Lou-era Velvets, are all great
@@kjcs_1896 Oh absolutely! What I meant was that everything that came after owes "something" rather than perhaps "everything" to them, if you catch my drift ;)
This is genuinely revelatory. Many thanks for this. The video where you break down Moe's style and technique made me rethink her playing totally-- and I am a decades long fan. Kudos!
Thank you too much, Cam. You are are very important historian. This track captures Moe Tucker's impossible to duplicate sound and the fierce genius of the Lou, and the band.
Thank you so much for this mix, Sister Ray is one of my favourites, but like the key tracks (sister Ray, WHWL, & I heard her Call my Name) on White Light/White Heat album. The mix always let the album down for me due to the absence of Moe's drumming being lost in the mix. You have done a splendid job here!
Yeah there are a few pictures of him with that guitar...what I'd never seen before is Moe using a Ludwig silver sparkle drum kit, although I wonder if it's a borrowed set perhaps...
You’ve switched off comments on the new full Sister Ray video….but just to say I’ve always got the time time to listen …..cos they are so good and it’s great to hear higher production versions of these classics so respectfully and authentically done.
This is the first VU photo I’ve noticed showing solid state Vox amp. Were SS Vox also used on white light/white heat recording sessions? It’s written that Vox supplied the VU with imported AC50/AC100, through Warhol arranged sponsorship, and these AC amp heads appear in Warhol’s Factory rehearsal photos. But here we see something more like a Vox Super Beatle behind Lou.
The band started out with small Silvertone and Fender amps, but when they became associated with Andy Warhol, they were outfitted with larger Vox AC100 ‘Super Beatle’ and Foundation Bass stacks (as well as a Vox Continental organ, Phantom & Teardrop guitar models, and a Phantom bass) after Warhol helped arrange them an official endorsement with Vox USA. The endorsement is not very well-documented, and as such the timeline is hazy, but they definitely visited the Thomas Organ [Vox] factory in Sepulveda, Los Angeles in May 1966 while they were on tour, and were soon (late '66 or early '67) outfitted with the latest models, including the solid-state V1141 models, and matching Westminster/Sovereign bass stacks that can be seen in this 1967 photo: credo.library.umass.edu/images/resize/1080/muph057-b009-sl097-i003-001.jpg
@@CAMFORRESTER I think the UK-made valve AC100s that appear in Warhol Factory rehearsal photos (January '66) were called "Super-Deluxe." Thomas Organ replaced the imported valve Super-Deluxe in '66 with US made solid-state V1141 "Super-Beatle". Here's another great photo with the earlier Vox's: static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03/14/arts/music/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Photos from the Dom residency, April '66, show AC100s behind Reed and Cale. This was around the same time VU&Nico recordings started at Scepter Studios. Guess they would have used same amps to record.
@@ghostexits Nah the Dom was much smaller than the venue in this picture, and back in the '66 EPI era Lou was still using the earlier AC100, and Moe still had her Gretsch drums rather than the Sonor set seen here. This was taken in September 1967 at a venue in Boston (according to the photographer, it's at the Savoy Theatre, rather than the Tea Party venue they usually played), so it was exactly at the time of the second album sessions, and the band would indeed have used this equipment for those sessions, to answer your initial question.
@@CAMFORRESTER My bad; was referring to the Dom photo linked in my comment, not your thumbnail. So, I guess it's fair to assume that VU&Nico was recorded with the earlier AC100's, and as you point out, WL/WH with the SS Super Beatles. Similar to records made by Beatles and Stones in late '66-'67 using new Vox SS amps. static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03/14/arts/music/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
It's a shot taken by Jonathan Richman, that was featured in the WLWH 45th Anniversary Box Set booklet...and agreed - it's certainly one of my favourite VU photos!
Hi Cam, in your description to this song you have Reed as sole songwriter, which is wrong. They are all credited for the song on the lp, so I hope you correct it. Only crediting Lou for the songwriting just ads more fuel to the superficial narrative that the Velvets were entirely about him and maybe a little Warhol and Nico besides, which most people believe in. I don't know how many books you have read about the Velvets and also the biographies of Lou Reed, John Cale and Nico. Reading all them books, it's pretty obvious, that the other band members offered far more inpetus into the music, especially John Cale, than Reed wanted us all to believe. Sterl said that they gave all the writing credits to Lou, just to have peace within the band. Moe stated that John had far more to do with the end product on TVU&N and WL/WH than people think. David Bowie said that Cale was the sound of the Velvets, after working with Reed on Transformer. IMO Cale should have been co-credited for the music, but Reed's enormous selfishness unfortunately got in the way. My credo is always credit to where credit is due!
I agree with everything else you've written, but in fact only Lou Reed is credited as the songwriter in the album liner notes; it's the composition which all the members are credited for, not the lyrics. I have amended the credits to make that distinction clearer. Sterling did indeed claim that both he and John should have co-authorship on many of the songs, but since they never argued for it, I can only reasonably reference the credits that were given, as anything else would be conjecture on my part.
I've often wondered how this album would sound if it were produced/engineered by people actually trying to do a good job. This is piss-poor engineering, and it's clear Tom Wilson didn't understand the music enough to even get a sound in his head. Engineer Gary Kellgren HATED this band (as well as pretty much every rock band he ever worked with). He can be heard whispering on The Mothers of Invention's "We're Only In It For the Money" album saying "Tomorrow I get to do another Frank Zappa creation [...] also I get to work with the Velvet Underground, which is as shitty a group as Frank Zappa's group." This tweak does make the drums a little clearer, but I'd be interested in hearing a full remix and re-EQ from the multitrack tapes. It deserves it for once.
I'm not sure if the original multi-tracks still exist, as every release since has just been a remaster of old stereo and mono mixes...but even if they did, it's definite that Wilson failed to ensure all of Moe's mics were turned on during at least SR, and I suspect WLWH as well, as even though the directional remix I did of that song places the centre focus on the drums (as with SR and IHHCMN - they were all mixed the same in that the drums were buried in the right channel), you can still barely hear them - it sounds like only overhead mics to me, certainly nothing close-up.
@@CAMFORRESTER I think this was recorded before most engineers/producers realized a good drum sound and having the backbeat up in the mix could sell an album. An exception would be George Martin and Geoff Emerick, who took care to have well-recorded drums and not having the mix sound like vocals way too loud with a band playing down the hall somewhere. I think WLWH was likely a 4-track recording, and it's possible no one attempted a full remix because it's often been said in music journalism that this albums's terrible engineering was part of its charm, and influenced future groups such as Sonic Youth and the Jesus and Mary Chain. I disagree, considering Psychocandy is the bottom-dollar worst album to listen to while driving. Sonic Youth enjoyed low-fi creds until they had a major national breakthrough with Daydream Nation, where the engineering took a quantum leap forward.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I graduated with a dissertation on the American avant-garde 67-69 and a huge part of it was centered around this LP, specifically side-2, which changed my life as an adolescent and it's still the greatest thing I've ever heard.
There's a bit in this song when Moe goes into a beat for a short while. Germany has made an entire music scene out of that bit and they're still bragging about it 😂
Ahh... yes.. love the Velvet's Bo Diddley motorik... Is your dissertation available online?
I’d love to read this dissertation!
That’s awesome
@@magraretsbane6274 I would too
Every genre that came after, owes everything to this song, and I think that is no exaggeration. I mean, their whole discography can be considered as the pinpoint, but if there ever was a center, this is it. And Moe is a piece of this puzzle.
Maybe not everything, but almost certainly something! ;)
@@CAMFORRESTER Yeah, not all. Their first two albums definitely. The third is more subtle in influence. Loaded is like a standard rock album, but still a great listen. Squeeze, while not really bad, I can't call it a Velvet album as it really had nothing of the band's spirit, just the name. But really, the "canonical four" as I like to call the Lou-era Velvets, are all great
@@kjcs_1896 Oh absolutely! What I meant was that everything that came after owes "something" rather than perhaps "everything" to them, if you catch my drift ;)
@@CAMFORRESTERYeah, a little misunderstanding, but yeah. Fully agree with that.
Noise rock, shoegaze, punk rock, alternative rock, hard rock, heavy metal, industrial rock, hardcore (When the song speeds up at the end).
This is the Coolest and GREATEST FUCKING THING IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC, THE GREATEST BAND THAT EVER LIVED, PEROID, BITE ME
This album contains Moe's best drumming, in my opinion. Moe kicks ass from beginning to end.🤘
What a band!
This song is the Guernica of rock and roll
I don’t know what that means but it sounds awesome
@@willowufgood261Pablo Picasso never was called an asshole
precisely now i feel as too earlier postmodern. picasso ah awesome shit
This is genuinely revelatory. Many thanks for this. The video where you break down Moe's style and technique made me rethink her playing totally-- and I am a decades long fan. Kudos!
Thank you too much, Cam. You are are very important historian. This track captures Moe Tucker's impossible to duplicate sound and the fierce genius of the Lou, and the band.
I love this!! I always thought the best part of Sister Ray was the drums.
Thank you so much for this mix, Sister Ray is one of my favourites, but like the key tracks (sister Ray, WHWL, & I heard her Call my Name) on White Light/White Heat album. The mix always let the album down for me due to the absence of Moe's drumming being lost in the mix. You have done a splendid job here!
Wild. Thanks for your work! This version is essential.
There is a Joy Division cover of this song on their album Still from 1981
Another great job!!!
Tx Cam!!
Thanks for hitting it sideways :)
Best channel on RUclips, hands down .... Or rather: two hands holding mallets
😎
And… I picture I had never seen before. I knew Lou had a Fender Electric Xll but hadn’t seen that Gibson.
Yeah there are a few pictures of him with that guitar...what I'd never seen before is Moe using a Ludwig silver sparkle drum kit, although I wonder if it's a borrowed set perhaps...
You’ve switched off comments on the new full Sister Ray video….but just to say I’ve always got the time time to listen …..cos they are so good and it’s great to hear higher production versions of these classics so respectfully and authentically done.
I noticed that a few minutes ago, and have turned them back on now! Sorry about that...thanks for the heads up! 🙏🏻 Glad you enjoyed it 😁
Finally they sound like the bootlegs, this is that shit I like.
This is the first VU photo I’ve noticed showing solid state Vox amp. Were SS Vox also used on white light/white heat recording sessions? It’s written that Vox supplied the VU with imported AC50/AC100, through Warhol arranged sponsorship, and these AC amp heads appear in Warhol’s Factory rehearsal photos. But here we see something more like a Vox Super Beatle behind Lou.
The band started out with small Silvertone and Fender amps, but when they became associated with Andy Warhol, they were outfitted with larger Vox AC100 ‘Super Beatle’ and Foundation Bass stacks (as well as a Vox Continental organ, Phantom & Teardrop guitar models, and a Phantom bass) after Warhol helped arrange them an official endorsement with Vox USA.
The endorsement is not very well-documented, and as such the timeline is hazy, but they definitely visited the Thomas Organ [Vox] factory in Sepulveda, Los Angeles in May 1966 while they were on tour, and were soon (late '66 or early '67) outfitted with the latest models, including the solid-state V1141 models, and matching Westminster/Sovereign bass stacks that can be seen in this 1967 photo:
credo.library.umass.edu/images/resize/1080/muph057-b009-sl097-i003-001.jpg
@@CAMFORRESTER I think the UK-made valve AC100s that appear in Warhol Factory rehearsal photos (January '66) were called "Super-Deluxe." Thomas Organ replaced the imported valve Super-Deluxe in '66 with US made solid-state V1141 "Super-Beatle".
Here's another great photo with the earlier Vox's: static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03/14/arts/music/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Photos from the Dom residency, April '66, show AC100s behind Reed and Cale. This was around the same time VU&Nico recordings started at Scepter Studios. Guess they would have used same amps to record.
@@ghostexits Nah the Dom was much smaller than the venue in this picture, and back in the '66 EPI era Lou was still using the earlier AC100, and Moe still had her Gretsch drums rather than the Sonor set seen here. This was taken in September 1967 at a venue in Boston (according to the photographer, it's at the Savoy Theatre, rather than the Tea Party venue they usually played), so it was exactly at the time of the second album sessions, and the band would indeed have used this equipment for those sessions, to answer your initial question.
@@CAMFORRESTER My bad; was referring to the Dom photo linked in my comment, not your thumbnail. So, I guess it's fair to assume that VU&Nico was recorded with the earlier AC100's, and as you point out, WL/WH with the SS Super Beatles. Similar to records made by Beatles and Stones in late '66-'67 using new Vox SS amps. static01.nyt.com/images/2017/03/14/arts/music/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX/15VELVETS-slide-AJAX-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Interesting, Lou with a 12-string?
seems like
Lou plays 12 string a fair bit on the "Live 1969" - album - "Ocean" and "Beginning To See The Light"
Where did you find this photo? It’s awesome
It's a shot taken by Jonathan Richman, that was featured in the WLWH 45th Anniversary Box Set booklet...and agreed - it's certainly one of my favourite VU photos!
Great mix…So hypnotic….not the drums I know but did Cale wire up a load of car horns used somewhere on this track or am I mis- remembering that?
I've not heard that one before, but it's a good'n!
Hi Cam, in your description to this song you have Reed as sole songwriter, which is wrong. They are all credited for the song on the lp, so I hope you correct it. Only crediting Lou for the songwriting just ads more fuel to the superficial narrative that the Velvets were entirely about him and maybe a little Warhol and Nico besides, which most people believe in. I don't know how many books you have read about the Velvets and also the biographies of Lou Reed, John Cale and Nico. Reading all them books, it's pretty obvious, that the other band members offered far more inpetus into the music, especially John Cale, than Reed wanted us all to believe.
Sterl said that they gave all the writing credits to Lou, just to have peace within the band. Moe stated that John had far more to do with the end product on TVU&N and WL/WH than people think. David Bowie said that Cale was the sound of the Velvets, after working with Reed on Transformer.
IMO Cale should have been co-credited for the music, but Reed's enormous selfishness unfortunately got in the way.
My credo is always credit to where credit is due!
I agree with everything else you've written, but in fact only Lou Reed is credited as the songwriter in the album liner notes; it's the composition which all the members are credited for, not the lyrics. I have amended the credits to make that distinction clearer.
Sterling did indeed claim that both he and John should have co-authorship on many of the songs, but since they never argued for it, I can only reasonably reference the credits that were given, as anything else would be conjecture on my part.
A shame that the band's value was only recognized afteer its existence
🎉😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉
I've often wondered how this album would sound if it were produced/engineered by people actually trying to do a good job. This is piss-poor engineering, and it's clear Tom Wilson didn't understand the music enough to even get a sound in his head. Engineer Gary Kellgren HATED this band (as well as pretty much every rock band he ever worked with). He can be heard whispering on The Mothers of Invention's "We're Only In It For the Money" album saying "Tomorrow I get to do another Frank Zappa creation [...] also I get to work with the Velvet Underground, which is as shitty a group as Frank Zappa's group." This tweak does make the drums a little clearer, but I'd be interested in hearing a full remix and re-EQ from the multitrack tapes. It deserves it for once.
Embryonic pioneers .
I'm not sure if the original multi-tracks still exist, as every release since has just been a remaster of old stereo and mono mixes...but even if they did, it's definite that Wilson failed to ensure all of Moe's mics were turned on during at least SR, and I suspect WLWH as well, as even though the directional remix I did of that song places the centre focus on the drums (as with SR and IHHCMN - they were all mixed the same in that the drums were buried in the right channel), you can still barely hear them - it sounds like only overhead mics to me, certainly nothing close-up.
@@CAMFORRESTER I think this was recorded before most engineers/producers realized a good drum sound and having the backbeat up in the mix could sell an album. An exception would be George Martin and Geoff Emerick, who took care to have well-recorded drums and not having the mix sound like vocals way too loud with a band playing down the hall somewhere. I think WLWH was likely a 4-track recording, and it's possible no one attempted a full remix because it's often been said in music journalism that this albums's terrible engineering was part of its charm, and influenced future groups such as Sonic Youth and the Jesus and Mary Chain. I disagree, considering Psychocandy is the bottom-dollar worst album to listen to while driving. Sonic Youth enjoyed low-fi creds until they had a major national breakthrough with Daydream Nation, where the engineering took a quantum leap forward.
There's another remix here: "The Velvet Underground - Sister Ray (2023 Remix by Ant Man Bee)"
No offense, but that’s the surest way of fucking it up.