"Avianca lost 2 engines, we are trying to find out why" dunno, maybe has something to do with the 50 times they told you about being low on fuel? Just maybe?
Tends to be a scapegoat excuse. They knew they messed up, they just don't want to admit to it because they can all get sued and ruined. It's their fault, but they wanna play dumb.
Unfortunately, the one person who really needed to hear this died when the cockpit was ripped from the fuselage during impact. But this wasn't the first time a co-pilot's timidness led to a crash. In 1982, Air Florida Flight 90 fell out of the sky and slammed into the 14th Street Bridge in Washington, DC during a snowstorm because its co-pilot was too afraid to countermand his captain who'd begun their takeoff roll without using enough engine power. The co-pilot noticed the engine readings didn't make sense and mentioned it to the captain. Unfortunately, the captain ignored his warning, and they continued down the runway until the plane finally struggled into the sky and immediately stalled over the frozen Potomac River. It turns out they'd forgotten to turn on the anti-ice due to their inexperience flying in winter weather.
"BINGO FUEL!!!!" lmao last time I ran out of fuel while driving, I coasted all the way through two green lights....all the way through a parking lot & right up to the pump.....AT A GAS STATION THAT DOES NOT SERVE DIESEL FUEL.....My vehicle is diesel only. lol
The sheer volume of avoidable F ups in this incident alone is mind boggling. The nonchalant attitude of the ATC to each other was like “Meh. Avianca has disappeared. No idea why…” was unbelievable. To think that things have probably gotten worse with volume of air traffic means I will fly only soooo far toward the north east and drive the rest of the way in. They have NOT fixed the fundamental problems that led to this sad event.
I absolutely love it when people put on their tin foil hats lol, but sadly no flying unfortunately is still the safest means of transport, u have a much higher risk of being involved in a fatal accident driving.
@@jannamyers6792 He didn’t need to be. The ATC at JFK said again and again it was too heavy a load for them to handle safely. You know how often an ATC says “I have bad vibes” about this? Basically, never.
@@jannamyers6792 that's basically one plane leaving every minute and 49 seconds. that's a lot of traffic to handle at one time. between maintenance, boarding & luggage, fuelling, de-icing (depending on the time of year), inspection, taxiing, and takeoff, it becomes a lot of work with a lot of moving parts to keep track of. add in the pressure from the airport to move that much traffic at once, it makes it so much easier for crucial work to be glanced over, all for the sake of pushing an unrealistic deadline. you want your kid to get home safe? don't force the airline to cut corners
I do not know how people haven’t pinpointed blame with this evidence…the ATC at JFK clearly didn’t properly communicate when transferring Flight 052 to the tower or to different shifts
ATC: " we lost contact to avianca 052 and we don't know why" "Priority, low of fuel, we have two minutes fuel, we lost two engines" didn't mean anything?
The co-pilot didn't even ask for "priority" from the approach controller until they'd already lost 2 engines and had no chance of making it to ANY airport. The controllers were surprised because they expected a professional aircrew carrying over 100 passengers to act more responsibly.
@@yamaha6501982 They only respond to the word "emergency" because they aren't the ones flying the plane. Besides, even if the crew HAD declared an emergency, they must ASK for what they need because THEY are the ones who have all the pertinent information in front of them. But asking for "priority" doesn't explain how long the plane can continue flying or what the crew needs to land safely. When the co-pilot accepted the instruction to fly another standard approach and even said 3000 feet "oughta be good", that told the approach controller they were able to fly another normal traffic pattern, and that's exactly what he gave them. When the co-pilot said they'd lost 2 engines, the controller gave them a direct heading to the outer marker, i.e. the quickest route. Beyond that, there wasn't much else they could do given what they knew at the time. BTW the co-pilot only said priority twice. Once was to an area controller who was also told by the crew that they had enough fuel to _hold_ for 5 more minutes, not that they only had 5 minutes of TOTAL fuel left. Holding time is calculated as part of a normal legal fuel load, so the controller would interpret that as the plane still having enough emergency fuel to stay in the air for at least another hour. By the second time the co-pilot said "priority", they were already too low on fuel to make it to the airport so it didn't matter regardless.
@@icemachine79 Woooo ! The ATC never asked Avianca how much total fuel left. That way to proceed leads to a full crash. I call this sh!tty ATC training and they had to pay millions in compensation for their botch job. Never try to justify incompetence Sir !
The last time I flew, we left Ft. Lauderdale heading to LaGuardia and bad thunderstorms. The pilot announced we were diverting to Washington DC and we went into a holding pattern over that area for about an hour. Then the pilot told us we were being refused in DC and would be flying to Boston. Then, as we flew over NY, he said he had informed LaGuardia that, like it or not, he was landing. The MD 90 was being rocked by the worst turbulence I had ever encountered. We landed in a driving storm. Everybody stood and applauded. I have no idea what had happened behind the scenes; only that our pilot was perturbed, though professional and reassuring. That was in 1996. I've not flown since. I'll never fly again.
They never stated how much fuel they had in minutes. The copilot only said "we're running out of fuel", and the ATC cleared them for landing 2 minutes after that statement. Read the transcripts.
I remember this crash. I was living in Manhattan at the time, and the thought of a plane running out of fuel was ridiculous. At the time the crash was blamed on the pilots who under estimated the planes needs, but in fact, it was a combination of errors between the controllers who did not understand the emergency the plane was experiencing.
I can’t imagine the horror first responders must’ve felt pulling children out of the wreckage. It’s sad when anyone goes but there’s something deeply traumatizing when it’s little ones. My heart breaks for those parents.
Tf are you talking about it lol It is not any less traumatizing if you are old or young maybe experience it for yourself lol if anything the children are lucky because they don't know what's going on and just by nature of memory and time it'll go quicker for them
@@occultustactical6138 yeah it seems these controllers were overworked and stressed at the moment. They were probably communicating with 2 or 3 times the normal amount of planes (understaffing) and that is why they put planes on a holding pattern so they can talk to one at a time as they land them. when you have a plane cleared to land and have 2 on approach plus 4 in holding and 5 more on vector to the airspace already occupied by the other planes that are in holding... you can get stressed and forget how long a plane has been in pattern. Its up to the flight crew to say hey buddy we have 35 min of fuel and i need to land...
Agreed. Failed on all sides, multiple times. Procedural but also some cultural elements. Reminds me of issues I had (young, very polite) after moving to NYC from an Illinois farm. You both assume the other will speak up, etc. and it builds.
Low on fuel can have different meanings depending on who you’re talking to. You can say you’re, “low on fuel” and still have several hours left. That’s why there is specific terminology used within aviation, such as, “Avianca 52 declaring an emergency”. Now you get to land first.
How low exactly? Maybe they can fly another 30 minutes? That's technically low, especially after a 7-8 hour flight. The ATC is not blameless but the pilot did not convey how serious the situation was.
The copilot only transmitted the radio message about the fuel 1 time. Only - ONE - time. Not "repeated". And after that one time, the ATC immediately cleared them for landing just 2 minutes after the message. The ATC even asked if going 15 miles away (in order to line them up with the runway) would be OK for their fuel and the copilot replied with a simple "I guess so". Read the transcripts.
@@EDOD_EseDelOtroDia I just looked at the transcript, and you're incorrect. They said they were running out of fuel 3 times, and that's just in the transcript and assuming that they didn't say anything about it prior to that last 40 minutes. (You can do a search for the word fuel in the transcript if you don't believe me.)I'm not saying they couldn't have been more assertive about communicating their situation - clearly they should have been - but ATC was very negligent about listening. And there shouldn't have been a that many planes scheduled to land around the same time in the first place.
@@deprofundis3293 Congratulations for reading the transcripts. The first call was at 21.24.08, which was 8 minutes before the crash, and the controllers cleared them for landing 2 minutes later (they were moving planes around to prepare this one to land). In fact, they asked this plane to contact the tower on an EXCLUSIVE radio frequency immediately after the first time they mentioned the fuel (21.24.39 "Avianca zero five two heavy, contact approach on one one eight point four."). So no "negligent about listening" anything. So yeah, ATC did everything... I repeat, EVERYTHING, on their hands.
The episode literally started with dc telling New York 33 per hour and New York saying that’s impossible. But dc said make it happen. It’s crazy how people gamble with the lives of humans for money… so sad
*Pilots:* "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" "We're low on fuel!" *ATC:* "Avianca lost 2 engines, we are trying to find out why"
How many times to the pilots have to say “we’re low on fuel!” before air traffic control realizes it’s an emergency situation? ATC is definitely to blame here
@@ultimatewitcherfan6677 100 percent, I can’t believe this even happened. How can you be flight control and hear someone say their fuel is low and it NOT register???
Some clueless people believe that batteries can replace jet fuel soon. There is no way possible for that to happen with today's primative battery technology. Today's batteries are not even appropriate for automobiles taking a moderate journey.
@@indridcold8433 What? Electric cars don't have a range problem, they have an infrastructure problem perhaps. For airplanes and things like big trucks, hydrogen combined with batteries and electric motors will probably be the most realistic. Right now there is new innovation like airplanes having an electric motor in their nose gear's wheel. In combination with batteries, this would allow planes to push back on their own (saving lots of time), and taxi without jet fuel. The weight of the jet fuel that would have been used is more than the electric motor and batteries needed, while being much better for the environment, especially noise and air quality near the airport, and avoiding delays caused by lack of fuel when airports are jammed, making the situation even worse. I believe that in the future, we will have excess renewable energy in the electrical grid that could be used for transport and producing hydrogen or something equivalent. We'll steal need plenty of fuel for other reasons like petroleum needed in many products, but batteries and hydrogen can eliminate the majority needed for transport or electricity.
@@kileybarnhill9581 I found the successor to the AM General HMMVW. It is called Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV). Use a search engine and you can find lots of information on the vehicle. The fuel cell makes for extremely quiet operation. Which is always desirable for military operations. The Yanks have warfare down to an advanced, deadly, fine, art. Is it wrong that I admire their Kingon Empire like philosophy and their brutal but surgically precise war machine? I can picture an American general in their finest uniform with a very deep voice saying, "There is no honour in humiliating an enemy by taking tiny victories a little at a time. A swift, total, crushing, victory is the honourable way to defeat an enemy. Toying with an enemy is disrespectful to your foe. Enemies deserve the glory of combat and an honourable defeat." I do admire the American military.
Yes... I can. Was tasked to secure the perimeter of the runway 123rd out of Portland, OR. Part of that required me to cross the approach area on one end of the runway. One foggy morning I get a radio call of a breach on the other side of the runway. I was sent across the runway, rather than around it, on foot to go figure out WTH was going on. Next thing I know I hear a light whistling sound to my right and a landing F15 popped out of the fog. Pilot never saw me, I just ducked into a ball and got blown about 50 feet down the runway as the fighter touched down about 250 feet away. Nobody was at all impressed in that situation, although my NCOIC who sent me onto the runway in the first place suddenly found himself pulling gate duty. Anyone who has heard an F15 take off would think "Surely you could hear the plane landing". Doppler effect is funny that way... You can't hear a thing from the engines till the plane is RIGHT EFFIN THERE big as a bus. It's not a brown alert, it's a spill response...
Emergency personnel must be very strong mentally, seeing and hearing injured people crying and screaming in pain. Sometimes I want to be a paramedic but I would just end up crying with them 😞
D…when they perish in the accident, they can be blamed for any and everything because who’s going to speak on their behalf? No one even knows besides them what actually happened.
@@marinazagrai1623 They can still be blamed for what they personally did... or what they *failed* to do, which in this case was to divert to Boston or declare an emergency when they still had enough fuel to make it to JFK.
They're just patriotic and can't handle or grasp the situation. They always constantly trying to mock the 3rd world, it's common asf but not every American is like that.
Right? ATC to NTSB.... Ohhhh so they were like... LOW low... Gotcha. Ah well... my shift's over. See you guys tomorrow. Hey Tom, tell the wife the pound cake was spectacular.
Language barriers are often a huge issue . However, when the flight crew said “running out of fuel” and the ground crew did nothing about, it was a death sentence for the passengers and crew. Also passing the buck and not telling vital information should be a criminal offense .
The air traffic controllers should have been charged with murder in the first degree, It is their job to make sure all the planes land safely. Not keep a plane flying in circles. Then just passing around flight plane 52. With out sharing the amount of fuel left on this plane. The air traffic controllers caused this plane crash.
Yes, one thing is running out, but other totally different is to be flying with zero fuel like LaMia 2933 in 2016. They said we've got a fuel emergency , never reported that they were completely out.
Yeah, it was totally acceptable to happen and totally acceptable to take 0 blame because the flight was coming in from latin america. Controller's brains rejected information from a foreign accent. That is a real thing (with entire papers about it) and when you are under high pressure, you wont get half the vital info someone in dire need id giving you. Precisely why flight controllers should be used to listening to the common accents flying into their airport instead of expecting everyone else to have zero accents. I swear the number of accidents that happen due to time sensitivities combined with accent (not even language) problems is high enough for this to be incorporated into normal flight procedure. Training pilots in the accent they are flying into is also extremely necessary. And they should also be given not just the momentary weather info but should receive an education about the region's climate. Which is why I believe pilots shouldnt be trained just for plane type but also for specific routes. We can prevent so many disasters this way. Better still, just start teaching a second language to children in USA since Kindergarden. It really trains the brain to adapt to listening t foreign accents and undestanding them quickly. yes, accents of even the language they didnt learn. This boneheadedness of only learning one language half assedly is making us dumber, sorry but it is true. Learning multiple languages actually has massive impact on how brain functions. Most important being understanding different perspectives of a situation which our society completely lacks. Expecting the whole world to speak accentless Enlgish is unreasonable and narcisssitic. Changing our way is realistic and beneficial to everyone but mst of all to us. But we wont do that. It irritates me because when people from other countries say americans want to remain wiflully ignorant to the point of danger, it really breaks my heart thinking about such things and knowing it is 100% true. Heck we even put our security in danger by not bothering to train our soldiers properly in the language they will be using where they are being deployed. They rely on a few translators and a few key words with their contacts. We bank it on contacts in the region knowing english. Seriosuly, it is ridiculous.
I remember this night, I lived about 10 miles away and remember hearing the crash. Sounded like a huge bang, enormous car crash but you could tell it was a distance away. Heard about 30mins later a plane went down, my father was a firefighter on the scene.
Yep, the early episodes have a lot of footage. AA 965 has some pretty crazy footage also included in the airport when they announced they have no contact with the airliner.
It is so frustrating to hear all the delays and the fuel running low. But frankly as a former pilot myself, the Avianca crew should of announced more forcefully their fuel situation. As pilots, we are ultimately responsible for the passengers safety.
I don’t even know why the pilots got blamed for this. They were passed around between air traffic controllers and were only in that low fuel situation because of them.
@@svenhoek Exactly why don't people understand this. You have to let air traffic know it's a damn emergency and they need to land now. They never said anything. They had so much time to convey this and they didn't!
"Low on fuel" is not a specific term and it is used rather liberally in commercial flights. There's a reason "emergency" is a specific term used to initiate specific protocols, while "low on fuel" is basically just a way for flight crews to try and get their flight in ahead of others who are in queue.
There are terms according to it if the co pilot said "Avianca 52 declaring an emergency we are low on fuel" if he said this thenn ATC would been more serious cause co. Pilot was saying low on fuel meaning it was not serious rather than it was so it's about communication error
Language is significant. Priority apparently meant something different to the air traffic controllers in English than it did to the copilot, which meant emergency in his culture
@@aly7914 its not only English, priority isnt a word u use in the world of aviation, communication in aviation is very precise, both pilots and ATC are trained to use very specific vocabulary, idk why these pilots failed at that, I mean its an old crash so training back then was probably not as good these days.
Funny that. It's almost like this particular crew was negligent in continuing the flight to NYC even after they'd used all their planned fuel for the trip.
For someone to fly a B707 for six and half hours manually from Colombia with no ATP surely his stress level was definitely high. My take, despite the accident in my books he deserves an award. As a human being he outdid himself.
@@5GreenAcres what is more urgent than saying we're running low on feul, we can't wait for 5 more mins. even if he didnt say mayday. btw the captain said emergency plenty of time the co pilot who comunicated with the controllers was a bit too polite and didnt pass the information urgently enough. but than again they were passed from one controller to another and they didnt transfer the info amongs themselves so even if he did i doubt they would have helped him any better
The fact that the airline just expected their pilot to hand fly a 707 from South America to NYC, through some of the world’s busiest airspace, in some of the worst weather all year - that had been accurately forecasted, was setting their flight crew up for a complete disaster!
@@Noa-cc9ur clearly declaring an emergency doesn't make you impolite. The co-pilot lied to his captain in order to save face. Not only that, the co-pilot could have easily said no when the controller asked them if they had enough fuel to be diverted 15 miles out. He didn't.
The Captain on the flight is the one in command and makes all the decisions of when and where to divert based on the weather conditions at the destination airport, the alternate airport and the fuel on board. With the weather info available to him and fuel remaining in this case, his only reasonable choice was to request a divert to an alternate. In over 35 years flying for an Air Carrier, I can remember only one time I was really concerned about remaining fuel load. Ironically it was also on an approach into JFK as a First Officer on a 747. Weather was below our approach minimums so we held until fuel remaining minimum for a divert to Dulles. We requested and were cleared on a route to Dulles but then after a few minutes New York control called and said JFK was above minimums and was accepting arrivals again. The Captain said ask for vectors for the arrival. We knew Approach was going to vector us out over the Atlantic (seems like half way to Europe ) before turning on finale. We saw the runway on short finale and then tower said Go Around, TWA landing ahead of us missed the taxi exit in the fog / mist and was still on the runway. The long vector around for another approach was the most stressful I ever had knowing that a divert now to an alternate would be doubtful. Once you divert to an alternate, Never turn back unless you are on fire! I also flew the B-707 aircraft type for a few years that was in this accident. The only hydraulic primary control on it is the rudder. The elevator and ailerons are just cables powered by pilot muscles. With out the auto pilot it feels a lot like steering an old farm truck with out power steering. After 6+ hours of that, the Captain must have been exhausted.
I remember the crash. I live on long island and with my job, I had to go to the crash site twice. We moved the people out of the house so it could be rebuilt. The impact of the cockpit pushed the house off of its foundation. The woman living in the house took a long time to recover emotionally. When she opened her front door, the front of the plane was right there.
Holy smokes! Feel like I’d have had to move… 😩😫 I could never unsee it after that… no doubt there was blood on the windows and the smell of twisted metal… no thank you
I WONT GET IN A PLANE NO MORE, IVE BEEN LIKE THAT SINCE MY 40S. I ALSO HAVE BEEN HAVING MANY DREAMS OVER THE YEARS SINCE CHILDHOOD OF PLANES CRASHING NEAR ME AND I HAVE TO RUN FOR IT.
“Thousands of angry passengers “. Would you rather crash and die? I never understand that. I rather be delayed then get on a plan during a storm and probably crash. I might be a little upset because no one wants to be stuck in an airport. I’m from NY and know JFK. I hate that airport. It’s a big airport that’s always congested and easy to get lost in.
I'd never understand the entitlement. It's one thing if the flight delay or cancellation was due to overbooking. But if you can see the storm right outside, I would shut up and wait so I would, I don't know, not die???
I worked for Usair ( Usairways) in Philly for almost 16yrs. My first year was spent inside ( worked the boarding gate) flight announcements, taking tickets and boarding passengers. The abuse that we had to take for weather delays was unreal!! After that first year I was lucky enough to transfer outside to the ramp as a baggage handler. Best decision I ever made ( bags don't talk back) and complain about fog, rain, snow, sleet, hail or high winds 🤔
Two weeks ago, I watched the last interview about the survivors (father and daughter) of this tragic accident. the man married again and has 2 children. The daughter (is almost 30 now) has a daughter of the same age when she suffered the accident. As a curious fact, a dog that came in the hold with the luggages also survived in that accident.
I watched other incident cases.. and on those cases, the air traffic controller was taking initiative to ask the pilots whether they want to declare "emergency status". The pilots here were under stressed, already declaring out of fuel & demand priority. So if the "emergency" term is very crucial to the ground team, they can simply ask the pilots in a Yes/No question form.
@@AlEtteso Unfortunately it’s not “just excuses.” Aviation follows a very strict protocol for the purpose of allowing actual emergencies to be given the utmost attention. Without the word “emergency” or “mayday,” the situation is deemed to be under control. This was the pilots’ fault, at least partially. Poor decision making in the cockpit doesn’t mean air traffic control is to blame.
When a pilot declares emergency he gets buttfucked by bureaucracy later, many cases of pilots risking people's lives because declaring a emergency would end their careers
Its a good thing they had ran out of fuel otherwise the plane would've exploded on impact. But then again if they hadn't run out of fuel they wouldn't had crashed in the first place.
*shudders* yes...I found it very impactful. Ugh, I just realized that I made a pun, I swear I didn't intend to >< Horrible situation that could have been avoided!
Wow, what a captain. The captain was flying for over 6 hours manually. He was putting in some serious work especially in those conditions. It most likely tired him out physically and mentally. Edit: Woah! Over 660 likes lmao.
Especially that the wind made it that much harder to control the aircraft. It’s like trying to drive a car through a category 5 hurricane. Especially with low fuel which adds that to the stress of the crew.
OMG! I have a really bad anxiety when it comes to flying by myself but being on a plane like this with my two kids (one of them is a little baby) knowing the danger we are in and not being able to protect them.... Seeing them scared and being unable to do anything about it... Makes me want to cry my eyes out.... Poor little darlings! 😭😭😭
"Ignorance" about what, exactly? Fuel gauges they couldn't possibly see? Believing the pilots when they kept accepting instructions they knew they couldn't follow? Please, do tell.
@@icemachine79 Why would they need to see the fuel gauges? The pilots said multiple times they were almost out of fuel and needed priority. The controllers only defense was that they didn't use the word "emergency" and didn't think the pilots conveying that they were almost out of fuel and needed priority was indicative of an emergency. Are the air traffic controllers that incompetent that they don't know that an airplane needs fuel to stay in the air? Almost being out of fuel is clearly an emergency, and the pilots requesting priority clearly means they need immediate landing. Anyone with a shred of common sense would know that without needing to specifically hear the word "emergency".
@@pauldavis5665 "Almost out of fuel" could mean 50 minutes or 5 minutes. ATC had no idea how far the plane could go. The co-pilot also said YES when asked if they could handle another approach. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@pauldavis5665 You realize pilots have to do at least some work and take responsibility for their own actions, right? Common sense tells us that agreeing to go a certain distance when you only have fuel for half that distance is stupid.
So at the end of the day, the greed and incompetence of the airline industry buried innocent people 6 feet under. You can blame the pilots and controllers and weather all you want, but if the airport was not that jammed, the controllers and pilots not that overworked, they would've landed safely.
The pilots and controllers were doing the best they could in a horrible situation. The greedy air traffic managers who wanted inhuman results from their controllers are the ones that caused this.
I don't know what the regulations were back then but my understanding is that planes need to declare may day or pan pan when they get under the amount of fuel needed to divert plus I think 15 minutes extra for holding and go around. I'm no expert but seems most of the blame is in the cockpit and some on the ATC for not taking a more proactive attitude to make sure the plane could do what they were asking since they already said they were low on fuel, however low on fuel doesn't mean about to fall out of the sky like was the case in reality. If may day was called out at the right moment they would all be alive. the weather didn't crash this plane and not ATCs lack of enthusiasm either but rather the flight crew. With all those drug mule's it makes you wonder if they didn't want to declare anything as to not bring on additional scrutiny not to mention taping the flight data recorder is odd to say the least (maybe a cost cutting strategy not sure).
Nope. You always have to declare an emergency. You have to say "Mayday" three times. It's the standard of the planet and for some reason these substandard pilots skipped that day of flight school.
“for some reason”? They were flying the plane manually for over 6 hours straight, old man. If anything maybe the ground crew could’ve been more competent at listening instead of handing over to other crew making the pilots re-explain the situation from the start.
@@letssaylalala Ground crews and ATCs the world over are trained to respond only when an emergency is declared. Why? Because they're not psychic and are not in the cockpit. The pilots bear the SOLE responsibility of declaring an emergency, which these pilots clearly did not. It's a simple procedure, say the word "Mayday" three times. So why did these pilots not do that? Incompetence, poor training, language barriers? All pilots and ATCs must be able to speak English competently because it is the language all countries have agreed upon to be the language spoken on international flights. So, in recognition of these agreed upon and established FACTS, the pilots are the ones at fault. If they couldn't speak English properly, then they should not have been flying international flights. If they can't follow the agreed upon rules of declaring an emergency, then they shouldn't be flying planes and shouldn't be in charge of people's lives. Flying is a rules and procedures-based experience and if your pilots are incapable of following them, then again, I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to understand, they SHOULD NOT BE PILOTS.
@@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368 lmao how sad your life must be.... Sure bud the pilots are 100% to blame whatever you say whatever helps you sleep at night? happy? what a child....
@@TheFrogInYourClosetWatchingYou Clearly you're not a pilot, know nothing about aviation, and get upset and lash out when someone slowly and clearly explains the facts to you. Feel free to look up all I've said to confirm that it's the truth. But I know you won't because that takes tens seconds of effort. You'll just stomp your feet, hurl your insults, and refuse to admit you're wrong. Cognitive dissonance and wounded pride is quite interesting to watch in the ignorant.
You realize the pilots didn't have to accept the instructions, right? They could have refused the hold at CAMRN and gone to Boston instead. Technically, that's what they were *supposed* to do according to the rulebook since they'd used up all their planned fuel already.
They did not have to let ATC kick them around like a soccer ball. They had the right to say no we cannot do that if they knew they were low of fuel and needed to land NOW? . Why did they let ATC keep kicking them around like a soccer ball?
All the pilots had to do was declare an emergency. The captain repeatedly asked the first officer to declare an emergency and he never did. All to the contrary, he transmitted "we're running out of fuel" and the ATC cleared them for landing almost immediately (2 minutes later) ASKING if going 15 miles away (to line up with the runway) would be OK, and the first officer downplayed it with a simple "I guess so". They never said how much time they had left. They never declared an emergency, and the call for "priority" was only ONE MINUTE before the crash. Read the transcripts.
It’s amazing there wasn’t a tremendous loss of life on the ground. RIP to all those who lost their lives. This was so easily avoidable and thus so much more tragic.
I also find it incredible too that they had more than a couple of survivors. I'd like to see a scientific analysis of the reasons. Perhaps there is something to the witness statements that the plane "just fell from the sky". My guess: It would have had to stall at a very low altitude to simply drop and not be smashed into a thousand pieces. And of course, it didn't hurt that there was no fuel to feed a crash fire.
The lack of fuel probably saved all the survivors. Plane crashes when the plane still has a lot of fuel or horrible, anyone that doesn’t die in the crash ends up being burned alive.
Air traffic control were disgraceful and this wasn’t just human error it was negligence. Who leaves a shift in the middle of an emergency and fails to pass on that info? Why would you even leave in the middle of it?
@@camillecastellano158 Okay , let me put it this way. Pilot: Left engine is on fire, cabin is filled with smoke. Right engine stopped working. We need priority landing. Tower: Okay, continue holding pattern. After crash, Control tower: He didn't say "emergency".
@@gamebegins3176 In a situation like that, it would likely play out more like this. Pilot: Left engine is on fire, cabin is filled with smoke. Right engine stopped working. We need priority landing. Tower: Would you like to declare an emergency? Pilot: Yes. The issue is that low fuel doesn't necessitate an emergency, unless it is made clear that there are no other options. Not to mention, how many other flights were also complaining about being low on fuel? ATC starts to lose track. At that point, you need to declare an emergency.
Flight attendants tell the parents to put the babies on the floor ….. like wth ? Put them on the floor They should have went to Boston , the new Yorkers are all attitude
The pilots did everything they were told and more. There was no mechanical failure or pilot incompetence this was new York airport staff being hounded by their bosses to land as many airplanes as possible over human lives. Greed led to the deaths of half the people on the flight. There was no other reason for the plane to be circling around an airport for 2 hrs.
Clearly you do not understand aviation, airport operations, or air traffic control. The flight crew is in charge of flying the plane, including managing fuel consumption. ATC is in charge of ensuring planes land as quickly and safely as possible. In bad weather, ATC is much more busy. and don't have time to babysit incompetent pilots and their fuel. The captain repeatedly told the FO to declare an emergency, but the FO never did. Again, ATC doesn't have time, especially at a busy airport like JFK, and in bad weather, to ask pilots to clarify their situation. If the FO would have declared an emergency, they would have gotten 1st priority and landed safely. When you declare an emergency, you own the sky.
The pilots definitely should of had a cut off line where they could still make there alternative airport. But forcing the airports to take more planes then they could handle then adding in how they where being handed off constantly & causing questions to be unanswered and liability to be handed off to the next guy plus add in the pilots tiredness from not having a working auto pilot it all just comes down to greed and shouldn't of happened
I love watching these every Thursday and on top of it being Thursday, today is the day before my highschool graduation and instead of worrying about saying goodbye to my friends I am going to calm myself down by watching this episode. I haven’t seen it yet so I don’t know if it’s going to make me more nervous or not lol
I know that air traffic management were highly responsible, however, if I had been the captain of an aircraft with such low fuel I am absolutely sure I would have been calling 'mayday' and making the ground very aware of the emergency. How you could allow your plane to be up in the air with only 8 minutes of fuel is inconceivable to me.
That is my thought..tower controllers are not to blame but the pilots here...they know what will happen if misunderstood so what waa their desperate plan Z? Fall out of the sky, wait for 8 minutes to death
@Jane, exactly. ATCs could have handled this better, there is no doubt about that but I'd say the pilots are predominantly to blame. 1. Avianca's lawyer talks about how washington center's order to land maximum planes at New York led to a traffic jam and unreasonable holding times, and that is true but why didn't the pilots choose to go their alternate well in time? When they did think of Boston it was already late. 2. If the pilots had checked the weather reports for their destination, they would know they might have a missed approach and would have pushed the ATCs harder for landing clearance with sufficient fuel left for a 2nd approach. Notice that they did have enough fuel if they could have landed during their first approach. If they knew about the weather they would have planned for enough fuel for a 2nd approach as well. Not to mention, it would have also indicated them that there might be a traffic jam and would have prompted them to switch to their alternate much sooner. 3. I don't see what stopped pilots from saying 'mayday mayday mayday for fuel' when they started using their reserve fuel which looks to be 20,000 gallons or even at a later point. That surely would have caught the attention of ATCs. 4. CRM wasn't great. The flight engineer advised the captain to keep the nose pitch gradual and smooth well before the approach and yet the captain still climbed sharply. Even if we say that's the nature of go-arounds, the captain didn't trust the FO to be conveying messages to ATCs and always doubted the FOs communications with the ATCs and was aggressive with his voice when talking to FO and FE. 5. I know this is not the only instance but I still find it shocking that someone who couldn't speak English well was allowed to fly an international flight.
Anytime i watch an episodes that says ‘atc transcripts and eyewitness accounts’ i feel glad that someone survived, cause no cockpit recorder transcript etc is mentioned; but then i imagine survivors’ guilt/trauma, and once that hits, I can never decide what would be worse- dying or surviving.
@ericbeck1461 I won't go into mental impact and trauma because clearly you won't understand. But imagine the lifelong consequences your body might suffer. Your spine, your brain, all the possible injuries, recovery, surgeries and possible disability. No money will give you your health back.
Pilots must use the technical language understood all around the world and must not deviate from it. Emergency, mayday, etc. is a must when this situation arises. The Avianca pilots were too polite / timid in expressing themselves to the control tower. The control tower heard low fuel and frankly should of been more active to get this plane to land asap.
The pilot didn't speak English so it was solely on copilot but I would have said as a emergencia no gasolina atc should understand or infer in not far off from English
@@clarissajones9771 If the captain couldn't speak Aviation English, he should not have been permitted to fly a plane outside of his home country. Full stop. This has been the case since the 1950s. Most countries will not let a foreign airline that doesn't require at least a Level 4 proficiency in Aviation English for their pilots land planes at their airports.
I would have said the below at least at the halfway mark, "D**b f**ks, Avianca 52 heavy is outta the m****r f**king fuel." and I would have been deemed as an inappropriate pilot due to language. But if that managed to save those lives I'd still say, "Now that I saved the say, who gives a f**k"
@@LukeDeveraux OR, you could just use "pan pan" or "Mayday" the way you are supposed to be trained. Or do you think pilots ignore their training regularly?
@@Uldihaa It's their daily edge which mostly over shadow things despite their experience or training. When you have done the same thing over and over day in and out, then you tend to have that level of confidence that could eventually dig your own grave. So many factors end of the day got stacked against this flight or any flight we see on most of the documentaries. No matter how experienced one can be, we always should have a personal checklist of our own when we conduct ourselves. While at ground, sky is the limit but in sky gravity is your enemy or friend depending the situation. This is not the first disaster of its kind. Then as a pilot you should be better prepared. We as humans can point fingers at each other. But it's better be alive to do that.
the accident is a culmination of many faults after all. the pilots cannot speak when the frequency is used by other aircraft at the same time and its very important for the instructions to be given to every other aircraft as well if not more than one accident would have happened that night
A lack off communication from BOTH parties resulted in this terrible situation. It sucks how safety is not top priority but getting in as many flights as possible regardless of the bad weather is.😐 P.S also the lack of auto pilot!! How was THAT allowed to happen.
I expected the investigation to place an emphasis on the changes to different air traffic controllers not passing on the information, like they’re running out of fuel.
You should gogle aerolineas argentinas case, their planes were flying with faulty systems, emergency warnings, vital systems off, their planes where literally not fly worthy
The controllers here were “blameless”. Right. So “we are in an emergency” “we are low on fuel” “we need priority” “we lost two engines” “we have enough fuel for only 5 minutes” does not mean anything serious? This is, in my opinion, only the fault of the controllers.
“we are in an emergency” was never said, they also did not inform ATC about losing engines. They also did not give a specific amount of fuel remaining. All that they actually broadcasted was that they were "low on fuel" with under 10min of fuel remaining (standard is *1 hour* to declare that without emergency), and that they "need priority", which does not have any specific meaning in aviation but is generally used to mean "at least get me out of holding". Determining what is and isn't an emergency and deciding whether or not to divert the aircraft is entirely on the crew, not the controllers.
@@trentspears9118yes the pilots said " we are on low fuel" it doesn't mean serious cause that means they can't fly to another country bt can land if the pilot used "we are declared emergency" then ATC would immediately knew what to do
@@draconightwalker4964 It doesn't. That would be Mayday x3. Priority means higher on the list, and he didn't even say top priority, with you could argue would be first. Or they could say first priority
@@draconightwalker4964 yes in *Spanish* but in English it doesn't- where this word means first but doesn't convey "emergency" AT ALL. I think this is part of the reason there was so much misunderstanding between the flight deck and ATC.
@@sannethomsen6421 I dont know how educated you have to be to work air traffic control but two engines failing should have conveyed an emergency in and of it self. The entire state of the crew saying they only had minutes of fuel left should have conveyed that they needed to be landed first and foremost. I dont think faulting them for not saying the specific word that should have been clearly understood from the situation is helpful at all.
I would put 70% blame of controllers. They should have given enough training to assist those planes with priority who mention about their fuel level. These kind of cases should not be transferred. Also if by any chance they have to transfer these cases, atleast they should have informed everything to the other controller about the situation. Pilots should know way before when to declare emergency. They shouldn't wait until last moment and even after declaring the emergency they should have fuel for atleast 3-4 attempt. This was completely avoidable situation.
agreed. pilots shouldn’t have waited as long as they did to start reporting low fuel but once they did make them aware , the ATC should’ve handled it better. definitely not switching between all these employees & not even giving important info. I think shift changes in the airline industry should be in a way that doesn’t take focus off the airline & their crew.
@@ellisjames7192 they said THREE TIMES in 6 minutes that they were running out of fuel. And the main pilot should honestly be absolved of any blame. He kept trying to tell the first officer to express the severity of the situation, to say they were low on fuel and to say that it was an emergency.
This is the first episode I need to forward. Not because it is badly produced. Just because the anxiety and sadness it is giving me because of the fate of the passengers and crew. So sad that they felt so inferior and not speaking up.
Actually, if there has to be a crash landing, I'd rather it be with as little to no fuel as possible. That way, there's no fire or explosion on impact and a greater chance of survival.
agreed. As I just commented prior, this episode was the best suspense show I've seen in memory. I was pacing, wringing hands, running my hands thru my hair--like I had a million riding on a game or something. The whole episode was excellent. Really helped that they had all that footage of the crash. I was really exhausted after the credits.
who else here is shouting "no! there is not enough fuel left!" whenever the ATC tells the pilots to go round AGAIN? these documentaries get me so emotional. damn. 😥
@@meganruchwatercolors7186 *"Running out of fuel" does not tell you anything - you have one hour of fuel left you can tell the control tower "you are running out of fuel";* you have 30 minutes left "you are running out fuel" you have 30% of fuel left you are "running out of fuel", it does not QUANTIFY your situation, however you see "I have a 5 minutes of fuel left" everyone can see your dire situation
I was shouting declare a bloody emergency. Do you know why ATC gave them another go around when they said, "There is not enough fuel"? Its because they had been making wide turns and when ATC tried to give them another wide turn, their fuel response just meant that they can no longer do these wide turns and thus move them closer to the airport using small go arounds.
To have to go that far out on another approach, fifteen miles from the outer marker, I'm screaming. I'm screaming to the controller, "we running out of fuel and we're coming right back around. Sue me." 🤨
When I hear the videos talk about thousands of angry customers, I always feel the urge to say, rushing pilots and flying in storms because of impatience is what causes pilots to make mistakes and causes accidents. There are certain conditions that planes should not be flying in or landing in.
Passengers have a right to be angry. They purchased their tickets (which are not cheap, btw) with the (reasonable) expectation that their flight was going to be on time. They based everything, from their arrival, to what they are doing after they land, on that departure time.
@@jfangm there are weather conditions BEYOND THE CONTROL of pilots and airlines. Tickets/purchases can always be refunded, but you can't get your life back if you die in a plane crash because people are impatient and value speed over safety.. completely ridiculous logic.
@@jfangm You’re a dolt. No one controls the weather. I’d hate to have to sit next to you. I’d rather be alive than try and demand a pilot fly in horrific weather
Tragic. The initial instructions to get 33 planes landed asap added to this disaster. All the way down the chain, one ATC forgetting to tell the new ATC about checking on Boston and the dude wanting to end his shift looking at his watch, was just mind boggling. So sorry for the innocent lives lost.
If someone was to tell me “we only have 5 minutes of fuel left” I would straight away understand I’ve got an emergency situation on my hands. These air traffic controllers clearly aren’t equipped with the skill required for the job: listening.
@@RyanPhoenixAZ That’s the one big thing that disappoints me about shows like this… when they leave out the voice recordings from the cockpit to air traffic control. Why do they fail to include them?? Sucks.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 this brand makes really good series called “I shouldn’t be alive” where people tell you what they where doing and saying it’s very detailed and I would recommend the ice crevasse one with the two males and the 19 year old grizzly bear attack. And no voice recording needed cuz they tell you their side of the story, so if their friend doesn’t make it they just tell their story and the parts they remember really well
@@RyanPhoenixAZ I shouldn’t be alive also has a really good where a guy goes insane in the jungle (I won’t ruin it) but they show a lot of pictures of the rescue at the end of these. The going insane in the jungle one I think you’d really like because of the “conclusion”
I am really surprised at the outcome of this chain of errors. But I'm much more surprised at how exhausted I was after ward. While watching I was up and down pacing, running my hands thru my hair, clenching my fists...the whole terror/anxiety gambit. This was really well directed and edited. The footage at the end? I'm speechless.
To be honest there's quite a bit that happened here that contributed to this disaster, though one of the main one's was the FAA being *stupid* and not heeding the advice of those on the ground. Part of why I hate the FAA.
For me, out of fuel is out of fuel. There is no B.S. that can get air traffic controllers out of their responsibilities. Air traffic manager in Washington D.C. Center is the culprit for this air disaster period. The fact that the documentary left out his name gave the hint. The a-hole is a cower and probably hunted by the victims’ spirit nightly......
@@renns0025 Or maybe the documentary doesn't even KNOW their name because it was never released. Also, they actually weren't out of fuel until toward the end. Plus, you might want to take a gander at how many pilots have *falsely* claimed that they were out of fuel in order to be bumped against of everyone else(hint: alot. Up until my country made it a federal crime to do so). THAT is one of the reasons why you must declare am *emergency* when you have a problem.
🤣🤣🤣 United States is not North Korea. What you mean by MAYBE the documentary program didn’t know the air traffic manager’s name? It’s not classified. You make it sounds like a CIA agent-ish. How can the program reenact a scene without any credible evidence ? That’d be the worst reporter program (i.e. 60 Minutes ruined Audi on fake sudden acceleration story). I don’t believe the documentary made up stuffs but choose to cover up the real culprit due to the liability it may bring to the station network.
33:25 This is so horrific. Imagine hearing those power down sounds as you’re a passenger in there… hearing not just one engine power down, but two, then more..
I heard a story once about this crash where the rescuers were trying to put a guy on a stretcher with a broken leg, but he refused and used a broken branch as a cane to walk to helicopters because there were people worse off than him who needed that stretcher more. Have no clue as to if it's true or not but it hammers in the human element to me. Terrible tragedy.
@@JuanGarcia-or2ty part of my commute is near Indianapolis International Airport. After watching the episode on Air Florida 90, I'll be looking up as well as ahead.
I must say these actors are incredibly believable. You instantly start to develop a strong level of aversion against the controllers (maybe even hate). In my opinion the controllers are solely to blame for this crash due to their negligence. It makes is it even more sad that the pilots after repeatedly indicating being low on fuel are blamed due to their lack of communicating the urgency and not using the word 'emergency', but 'priority' instead. I find this an outrageous conclusion of the investigation board. Who on earth in the position of a controller does not understand 'low on fuel' or 'priority'? Air Traffic Control found blameless? It is absolutely disgraceful and painful to hear. The controllers not admitting their mistakes, while they are responsible for the tragic deaths that should have been prevented, is just a big shame. Really, they should have been prosecuted for negligence and manslaughter. My heart goes to everyone who lost their lives in this crash and their loved ones. For those who have survived I hope they found a way to continue living.
I’m sorry, but this is incorrect. The pilots know far more about their aircraft and safety than the controllers do. As a pilot it is your responsibility to be clear, concise, and demanding (if need be). ATC are not mind readers. Avianca failed here to communicate the urgency of their fuel problem. They failed to declare a proper emergency (you can say Mayday Mayday Mayday, or “we are declaring an emergency”… the pilots did neither). They failed to divert the flight LONG before fuel ran out, even as they were in an indefinite holding pattern. The bad weather compounded the problem even further. This is solely on the flight crew, which is sad but the reality of these kinds of accidents. Pilot error is never easy to accept but it is what it is.
We need processes for these things. Well-defined formalities. Priority is subjective, no? You ask one person, you get one answer, ask another and get a different answer. But emergency is well-defined in the books. Everyone knows, down to every letter of the definition, know what it means.
The pilot specifically told the co pilot to tell them they were in an emergency and OUT OF FUEL not we are running out of fuel. Very big difference!!! Omgosh!
They NEVER told ATC they had an emergency. They just they are low on fuel and needed priority. We the got to the point they were out of fuel, that was the pilot fault.
Blaming the pilots for not being assertive is just damn ignorance. "We were running out of fuel" should have been enough for them to understand the situation. Being assertive doesnt mean a damn thing. Stupid
@@kellykiritsugu3027 You have no idea what you are talking about. In the aviation industry, declaring an emergency means using the actual words “we are declaring an emergency.” Or at least using “Pan Pan Pan.” Talking about low fuel does NOT indicate an emergency, and to top it off, the pilots chose not to divert to their alternate destination (Boston) when given the chance, and they also accepted a longer second approach to JFK after aborting their first landing.
I feel it’s the corporates fault, they put the stress on the traffic controllers and that lead to them being unable to pickup on the fight crews attempts to convey their emergency, admitivly the crew really should of used mayday or pan pan pan. But they stressed
I am in awe when I see these videos because I am in my 70's and I remember many of the plane disasters in this Channel WONDER. The re enactment is incredible as is the acting. At the same time it is so sad and then I go "so that is what happened". I don't like to put blame I just pray for every soul, time was up. RIP.
Assuming the recording of the cockpit is what we are hearing sadly the co pilot did not adequately portray his captain’s instructions forcefully enough
@@richardwait1206 yep. I understand proper terminology needs to be used in these situations… But at this point both pilots should have said something along the lines of: “YO!!! WE ARE OUTTA GAS! Y’all hear us NOW?! OUT. OF. GASSSSSS!!!!” 😳
@Vlasko60 Yes, captain told him to declare an emergency but the co pilot keep saying "Low on fuel, we need priority" Which is why ATC misunderstood them cause in Aviation terms it is different and also the final report says Pilot Error. Case closed
Lack of direct communication is a huge issue here. The pilot didn't communicate with the controllers directly. Controllers were switching few times. And all the responsibility of communicating how tragic was the situation was with the less experienced co-pilot
it makes me happy whenever a survivor starts talking and puts me at ease for the rest of the doc that at least someone was ok
Same. You know it's not going to end well when it's the same 2 people interviewing and they are family members/friends of the passengers.
Haha I feel the same way. 🤗
@@xmontovanillix Yeah. When no pilot was interviewed, I knew it was serious.
They had 9 minutes of fuel for 30 minutes
I feel the exact same way
Who's this narrator? His voice is excellent and his delivery is concise. No sensationalism or robotic tone. Great narrator.
I agree.
He sounds like a regular narrator to me tbh.
Agreed!!
I wonder if he’ll ever see this comment
It's Jonathan Aris. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Aris
"Avianca lost 2 engines, we are trying to find out why" dunno, maybe has something to do with the 50 times they told you about being low on fuel? Just maybe?
Tends to be a scapegoat excuse. They knew they messed up, they just don't want to admit to it because they can all get sued and ruined. It's their fault, but they wanna play dumb.
for real, I can't believe Wonder is blaming the crew
Code of stupid... cops, politicians, corporations. There is no hope.
@@prismpyre7653 You do know these are reruns of the 2003 TV series called "Air Emergency"/"Mayday". Wonder did not make them.
Hmmm.....
The unnannounced low windshear nearly killed everyone the first time, except for the crew's MANUAL
flying skills.
Life lesson. When it's serious , raise your voice, be assertive and don't worry about hurt feelings. This is for both the pilots and tower.
Yeah.. if thats me... ill raise hell . I need that buffer zone if i need to do a miss approach
Exactly! And raising voice shows urgency not anger.
@@anki3336 its a culture issue.... ill be using the aviation lingo and declare "emergency" not just emphasizing "priority"
Priority is a mild sounding word .Emergency has 100 times the impact as priority .
Unfortunately, the one person who really needed to hear this died when the cockpit was ripped from the fuselage during impact. But this wasn't the first time a co-pilot's timidness led to a crash. In 1982, Air Florida Flight 90 fell out of the sky and slammed into the 14th Street Bridge in Washington, DC during a snowstorm because its co-pilot was too afraid to countermand his captain who'd begun their takeoff roll without using enough engine power. The co-pilot noticed the engine readings didn't make sense and mentioned it to the captain. Unfortunately, the captain ignored his warning, and they continued down the runway until the plane finally struggled into the sky and immediately stalled over the frozen Potomac River. It turns out they'd forgotten to turn on the anti-ice due to their inexperience flying in winter weather.
I always lay down at night and tell myself “go to sleep”, then end up watching these. I’m so fascinated by airline documentaries.
Trying now...sad but true.
Me too!! 😄😄 I’m addicted
me too😁😁😁
I’m laying down, eating scooby doo snacks 😂 watching this for the 3rd or 4th night
Same
Can’t imagine stress those pilots went through, I go into anxiety mode when fuel light glows on my car’s dashboard..!! ):
me too 😆
I don't even reach fuel light glow, at half tank and I already figure map in my head to go nearest fuel station.
Me Too I Start Panicking When Me Gas Is On A Quarter Of A Tank!!!
And it cant fall out of the sky
"BINGO FUEL!!!!" lmao last time I ran out of fuel while driving, I coasted all the way through two green lights....all the way through a parking lot & right up to the pump.....AT A GAS STATION THAT DOES NOT SERVE DIESEL FUEL.....My vehicle is diesel only. lol
The sheer volume of avoidable F ups in this incident alone is mind boggling. The nonchalant attitude of the ATC to each other was like “Meh. Avianca has disappeared. No idea why…” was unbelievable.
To think that things have probably gotten worse with volume of air traffic means I will fly only soooo far toward the north east and drive the rest of the way in. They have NOT fixed the fundamental problems that led to this sad event.
They deserve prison time for this. Along with those who declared them innocent. This is gross negligence.
Isnt that a re-creation
Wouldn't there be an investigation on the tapes?
I absolutely love it when people put on their tin foil hats lol, but sadly no flying unfortunately is still the safest means of transport, u have a much higher risk of being involved in a fatal accident driving.
whoever suggested 33 planes an hour should be fired
Go back to the guy who made the schedule . Was he a freaking psychic
I want my kid home.
@@jannamyers6792 He didn’t need to be. The ATC at JFK said again and again it was too heavy a load for them to handle safely. You know how often an ATC says “I have bad vibes” about this? Basically, never.
@@jannamyers6792 that's basically one plane leaving every minute and 49 seconds. that's a lot of traffic to handle at one time. between maintenance, boarding & luggage, fuelling, de-icing (depending on the time of year), inspection, taxiing, and takeoff, it becomes a lot of work with a lot of moving parts to keep track of. add in the pressure from the airport to move that much traffic at once, it makes it so much easier for crucial work to be glanced over, all for the sake of pushing an unrealistic deadline.
you want your kid to get home safe? don't force the airline to cut corners
Exactly. thats over 2 planes every 1 to 2 minutes
Pilot, in obviously distressed voice: We are running out of fuel! We need priority now!
Air control: Sounds like he can wait 40 more minutes.
Just watching and listening to ATC. Puts me in a close angry mode.
@@mikeloghry9521 i am really angry
I do not know how people haven’t pinpointed blame with this evidence…the ATC at JFK clearly didn’t properly communicate when transferring Flight 052 to the tower or to different shifts
@@Spartan086 clearly Americans trying to cover up the controllers fatal mistakes
@@Spartan086 And that's why they settled. Since they know it's a lost cause to get anyone else to believe their version.
ATC: " we lost contact to avianca 052 and we don't know why"
"Priority, low of fuel, we have two minutes fuel, we lost two engines" didn't mean anything?
I’m outraged!! That statement itself shows they were not listening!!! Ugh 🤦🏻♀️
The co-pilot didn't even ask for "priority" from the approach controller until they'd already lost 2 engines and had no chance of making it to ANY airport. The controllers were surprised because they expected a professional aircrew carrying over 100 passengers to act more responsibly.
@@icemachine79 Yes the co-pilot asked for priority many times but the ATC only understand the word "emergency" in their poor training....
@@yamaha6501982 They only respond to the word "emergency" because they aren't the ones flying the plane. Besides, even if the crew HAD declared an emergency, they must ASK for what they need because THEY are the ones who have all the pertinent information in front of them. But asking for "priority" doesn't explain how long the plane can continue flying or what the crew needs to land safely. When the co-pilot accepted the instruction to fly another standard approach and even said 3000 feet "oughta be good", that told the approach controller they were able to fly another normal traffic pattern, and that's exactly what he gave them. When the co-pilot said they'd lost 2 engines, the controller gave them a direct heading to the outer marker, i.e. the quickest route. Beyond that, there wasn't much else they could do given what they knew at the time.
BTW the co-pilot only said priority twice. Once was to an area controller who was also told by the crew that they had enough fuel to _hold_ for 5 more minutes, not that they only had 5 minutes of TOTAL fuel left. Holding time is calculated as part of a normal legal fuel load, so the controller would interpret that as the plane still having enough emergency fuel to stay in the air for at least another hour. By the second time the co-pilot said "priority", they were already too low on fuel to make it to the airport so it didn't matter regardless.
@@icemachine79 Woooo ! The ATC never asked Avianca how much total fuel left. That way to proceed leads to a full crash. I call this sh!tty ATC training and they had to pay millions in compensation for their botch job. Never try to justify incompetence Sir !
The last time I flew, we left Ft. Lauderdale heading to LaGuardia and bad thunderstorms. The pilot announced we were diverting to Washington DC and we went into a holding pattern over that area for about an hour. Then the pilot told us we were being refused in DC and would be flying to Boston. Then, as we flew over NY, he said he had informed LaGuardia that, like it or not, he was landing. The MD 90 was being rocked by the worst turbulence I had ever encountered. We landed in a driving storm. Everybody stood and applauded. I have no idea what had happened behind the scenes; only that our pilot was perturbed, though professional and reassuring. That was in 1996. I've not flown since. I'll never fly again.
Get back on the horse.
@@kaizersolze It's not going to happen. I'd rather park on Rockaway Blvd. near Kennedy Airport and watch the planes land.
No pilot should ever be refused landing @an airport..the tower is a bunch of dumbasses
LaGuardia in itself is harrowing to land at. Very short runway
I was going overseas but I'll go by boat
"Kennedy, we have 2 minutes of fuel left!!" *Kennedy:* "Okay, we should be able to get you in by Tuesday."
that would make sense for cars, considering that jfk is on LI and right next to nyc
Sad part is I’m pretty sure it’s still like that
*Kennedy:* "Can you guys make it?"
*Co-Pilot **-Klutz-** Klotz:* "Yeah, send us 15 miles away from the airport. I'm sure it'll be fine."
Right? If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.
They never stated how much fuel they had in minutes. The copilot only said "we're running out of fuel", and the ATC cleared them for landing 2 minutes after that statement.
Read the transcripts.
The air controller people were grossly negligent, but even more was their boss.
they should be jailed for it
AGREED !!!
@@Youtubutitoy Again AGREED !!!
Management... they give the orders.
Absolutely wrong. The gross negligence came from the crew and the airline.
I remember this crash. I was living in Manhattan at the time, and the thought of a plane running out of fuel was ridiculous. At the time the crash was blamed on the pilots who under estimated the planes needs, but in fact, it was a combination of errors between the controllers who did not understand the emergency the plane was experiencing.
What about the weather ?
The fight should have be cacelled in the first place. I think there's many people to blame on this one
@@onataka2506 why should it be cancelled ?
The controllers did not understand the emergency because no emergency was ever declared. The pilots never declared an emergency never said May Day.
@@onataka2506 Yes never should have taken off will the auto pilot not working.
I can’t imagine the horror first responders must’ve felt pulling children out of the wreckage. It’s sad when anyone goes but there’s something deeply traumatizing when it’s little ones. My heart breaks for those parents.
Tf are you talking about it lol It is not any less traumatizing if you are old or young maybe experience it for yourself lol if anything the children are lucky because they don't know what's going on and just by nature of memory and time it'll go quicker for them
Someone should have asked "Are you declaring an emergency?" Those words are like magic. Pilots, controllers, and Lawyers know what those words mean.
Sometimes Controllers will even ask “Are you declaring an emergency?”
@@occultustactical6138 yeah it seems these controllers were overworked and stressed at the moment. They were probably communicating with 2 or 3 times the normal amount of planes (understaffing) and that is why they put planes on a holding pattern so they can talk to one at a time as they land them. when you have a plane cleared to land and have 2 on approach plus 4 in holding and 5 more on vector to the airspace already occupied by the other planes that are in holding... you can get stressed and forget how long a plane has been in pattern. Its up to the flight crew to say hey buddy we have 35 min of fuel and i need to land...
Agreed. Failed on all sides, multiple times. Procedural but also some cultural elements. Reminds me of issues I had (young, very polite) after moving to NYC from an Illinois farm. You both assume the other will speak up, etc. and it builds.
@@scottcol23 Agree, cultural norms played a part.
Yes, just like what happened in Air Transat Flight 236, the air traffic controller asked the pilot if they are declaring an emergency...
What part of a repeated “we’re low on fuel” didn’t the controllers understand??? This was completely avoidable. May the passengers RIP.
Low on fuel can have different meanings depending on who you’re talking to. You can say you’re, “low on fuel” and still have several hours left. That’s why there is specific terminology used within aviation, such as, “Avianca 52 declaring an emergency”. Now you get to land first.
How low exactly? Maybe they can fly another 30 minutes? That's technically low, especially after a 7-8 hour flight. The ATC is not blameless but the pilot did not convey how serious the situation was.
The copilot only transmitted the radio message about the fuel 1 time. Only - ONE - time. Not "repeated". And after that one time, the ATC immediately cleared them for landing just 2 minutes after the message. The ATC even asked if going 15 miles away (in order to line them up with the runway) would be OK for their fuel and the copilot replied with a simple "I guess so".
Read the transcripts.
@@EDOD_EseDelOtroDia I just looked at the transcript, and you're incorrect. They said they were running out of fuel 3 times, and that's just in the transcript and assuming that they didn't say anything about it prior to that last 40 minutes. (You can do a search for the word fuel in the transcript if you don't believe me.)I'm not saying they couldn't have been more assertive about communicating their situation - clearly they should have been - but ATC was very negligent about listening. And there shouldn't have been a that many planes scheduled to land around the same time in the first place.
@@deprofundis3293 Congratulations for reading the transcripts. The first call was at 21.24.08, which was 8 minutes before the crash, and the controllers cleared them for landing 2 minutes later (they were moving planes around to prepare this one to land). In fact, they asked this plane to contact the tower on an EXCLUSIVE radio frequency immediately after the first time they mentioned the fuel (21.24.39 "Avianca zero five two heavy, contact approach on one one eight point four."). So no "negligent about listening" anything.
So yeah, ATC did everything... I repeat, EVERYTHING, on their hands.
The real blame lies at the feet of those who decided to keep JFK airport open in such dangerous flying conditions.
Right. This past winter I noticed mass flight cancellations due to bad weather. Do you think the lesson has been learned?
I was thinking the same DAMN thing!
If the weather really was that bad, then yes. No plane should have to land in weather THAT terrible, regardless of their fuel.
I wholeheartedly agree!
The episode literally started with dc telling New York 33 per hour and New York saying that’s impossible. But dc said make it happen. It’s crazy how people gamble with the lives of humans for money… so sad
34:55 , wow. That's one of the most realistic animation I have ever seen in one of these Mayday episodes.
*Pilots:* "We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
"We're low on fuel!"
*ATC:* "Avianca lost 2 engines, we are trying to find out why"
Underrated comment 😂😂😂
Yep, that sums it up in a nut shell. So damn 😥 sad.
How many times to the pilots have to say “we’re low on fuel!” before air traffic control realizes it’s an emergency situation? ATC is definitely to blame here
@@ultimatewitcherfan6677 100 percent, I can’t believe this even happened. How can you be flight control and hear someone say their fuel is low and it NOT register???
Was the Avianca first officer told to use the word emergency in his training ?
The fuel countdown made this episode so much scarier
Some clueless people believe that batteries can replace jet fuel soon. There is no way possible for that to happen with today's primative battery technology. Today's batteries are not even appropriate for automobiles taking a moderate journey.
@@indridcold8433 What? Electric cars don't have a range problem, they have an infrastructure problem perhaps. For airplanes and things like big trucks, hydrogen combined with batteries and electric motors will probably be the most realistic. Right now there is new innovation like airplanes having an electric motor in their nose gear's wheel. In combination with batteries, this would allow planes to push back on their own (saving lots of time), and taxi without jet fuel. The weight of the jet fuel that would have been used is more than the electric motor and batteries needed, while being much better for the environment, especially noise and air quality near the airport, and avoiding delays caused by lack of fuel when airports are jammed, making the situation even worse.
I believe that in the future, we will have excess renewable energy in the electrical grid that could be used for transport and producing hydrogen or something equivalent. We'll steal need plenty of fuel for other reasons like petroleum needed in many products, but batteries and hydrogen can eliminate the majority needed for transport or electricity.
@@indridcold8433 batteries are not yet energy dense enough to be usable to fly most planes. It may be a possibility in the future though
@@indridcold8433 k
@@kileybarnhill9581 I found the successor to the AM General HMMVW. It is called Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV). Use a search engine and you can find lots of information on the vehicle. The fuel cell makes for extremely quiet operation. Which is always desirable for military operations. The Yanks have warfare down to an advanced, deadly, fine, art. Is it wrong that I admire their Kingon Empire like philosophy and their brutal but surgically precise war machine? I can picture an American general in their finest uniform with a very deep voice saying, "There is no honour in humiliating an enemy by taking tiny victories a little at a time. A swift, total, crushing, victory is the honourable way to defeat an enemy. Toying with an enemy is disrespectful to your foe. Enemies deserve the glory of combat and an honourable defeat." I do admire the American military.
Could anyone imagine walking through the fog and seeing a dark silent plane coming out of the dark at you? That would be horrifying to the max.
Yes... I can. Was tasked to secure the perimeter of the runway 123rd out of Portland, OR. Part of that required me to cross the approach area on one end of the runway. One foggy morning I get a radio call of a breach on the other side of the runway. I was sent across the runway, rather than around it, on foot to go figure out WTH was going on. Next thing I know I hear a light whistling sound to my right and a landing F15 popped out of the fog. Pilot never saw me, I just ducked into a ball and got blown about 50 feet down the runway as the fighter touched down about 250 feet away. Nobody was at all impressed in that situation, although my NCOIC who sent me onto the runway in the first place suddenly found himself pulling gate duty. Anyone who has heard an F15 take off would think "Surely you could hear the plane landing". Doppler effect is funny that way... You can't hear a thing from the engines till the plane is RIGHT EFFIN THERE big as a bus. It's not a brown alert, it's a spill response...
@@nunyabidness674 glad u survive my friend.
I've had nightmares like that... thankfully haven't had to deal with that in real life.
... yet
@@nunyabidness674 lmao love interjecting ur own story when this person was just makin a point
@@ohh2752 people can say what they want. I think it was a good story ;)
Emergency personnel must be very strong mentally, seeing and hearing injured people crying and screaming in pain. Sometimes I want to be a paramedic but I would just end up crying with them 😞
A classic example on how pilots are blamed for anyone else's mistake.
Should have radio a weather report.
D…when they perish in the accident, they can be blamed for any and everything because who’s going to speak on their behalf? No one even knows besides them what actually happened.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
The pilots did not ask about the destination weather and did not properly declare a fuel emergency
@@marinazagrai1623 They can still be blamed for what they personally did... or what they *failed* to do, which in this case was to divert to Boston or declare an emergency when they still had enough fuel to make it to JFK.
The air traffic control excuse is really just "they told us they're low on fuel, but they didn't tell us that they're like low low"
They should have said no more fuel saying running out of fuel doesn't mean anything.
Actually, their excuse is that they weren't flying the plane. It's a really good one.
They're just patriotic and can't handle or grasp the situation. They always constantly trying to mock the 3rd world, it's common asf but not every American is like that.
@@julienielsen4462 saying 2 engines burnt out wasnt enough?
Right? ATC to NTSB.... Ohhhh so they were like... LOW low... Gotcha. Ah well... my shift's over. See you guys tomorrow. Hey Tom, tell the wife the pound cake was spectacular.
Language barriers are often a huge issue . However, when the flight crew said “running out of fuel” and the ground crew did nothing about, it was a death sentence for the passengers and crew. Also passing the buck and not telling vital information should be a criminal offense .
The air traffic controllers should have been charged with murder in the first degree, It is their job to make sure all the planes land safely. Not keep a plane flying in circles. Then just passing around flight plane 52. With out sharing the amount of fuel left on this plane. The air traffic controllers caused this plane crash.
Yes, one thing is running out, but other totally different is to be flying with zero fuel like LaMia 2933 in 2016. They said we've got a fuel emergency , never reported that they were completely out.
"We are running out of fuel"
"Wait"
I think the people at DC who told the airport to accept more planes than they thought safe are also at fault.
Yeah, it was totally acceptable to happen and totally acceptable to take 0 blame because the flight was coming in from latin america. Controller's brains rejected information from a foreign accent. That is a real thing (with entire papers about it) and when you are under high pressure, you wont get half the vital info someone in dire need id giving you. Precisely why flight controllers should be used to listening to the common accents flying into their airport instead of expecting everyone else to have zero accents. I swear the number of accidents that happen due to time sensitivities combined with accent (not even language) problems is high enough for this to be incorporated into normal flight procedure. Training pilots in the accent they are flying into is also extremely necessary. And they should also be given not just the momentary weather info but should receive an education about the region's climate. Which is why I believe pilots shouldnt be trained just for plane type but also for specific routes. We can prevent so many disasters this way.
Better still, just start teaching a second language to children in USA since Kindergarden. It really trains the brain to adapt to listening t foreign accents and undestanding them quickly. yes, accents of even the language they didnt learn. This boneheadedness of only learning one language half assedly is making us dumber, sorry but it is true. Learning multiple languages actually has massive impact on how brain functions. Most important being understanding different perspectives of a situation which our society completely lacks. Expecting the whole world to speak accentless Enlgish is unreasonable and narcisssitic. Changing our way is realistic and beneficial to everyone but mst of all to us. But we wont do that. It irritates me because when people from other countries say americans want to remain wiflully ignorant to the point of danger, it really breaks my heart thinking about such things and knowing it is 100% true. Heck we even put our security in danger by not bothering to train our soldiers properly in the language they will be using where they are being deployed. They rely on a few translators and a few key words with their contacts. We bank it on contacts in the region knowing english. Seriosuly, it is ridiculous.
I remember this night, I lived about 10 miles away and remember hearing the crash. Sounded like a huge bang, enormous car crash but you could tell it was a distance away. Heard about 30mins later a plane went down, my father was a firefighter on the scene.
Kudos to your father ❤
It’s amazing how much actual footage they got in this one. Very rare and way scarier than watching the reconstruction.
Yep, the early episodes have a lot of footage. AA 965 has some pretty crazy footage also included in the airport when they announced they have no contact with the airliner.
It is so frustrating to hear all the delays and the fuel running low. But frankly as a former pilot myself, the Avianca crew should of announced more forcefully their fuel situation. As pilots, we are ultimately responsible for the passengers safety.
It do not think most people understand that.
When I say i'm out of fuel and i'm landing, "Here I come ready or not"
Yep, the flight engineer the first to blame......
Isn't "WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF FUEL" forceful enough??? - he repeated it SEVERAL times.....
It’s surely different for foreigners to talk to the American with that level of authority.
I don’t even know why the pilots got blamed for this. They were passed around between air traffic controllers and were only in that low fuel situation because of them.
Probly cause its easy to blame the colombian pilots
Dead people can't defend themselves. That's why.
@@extracelestial9527 Exactly. And financially the most convenient and expedient option for all parties.
The pilots failed to clearly communicate the emergency. The controllers failed to understand what was going on.
@@svenhoek Exactly why don't people understand this. You have to let air traffic know it's a damn emergency and they need to land now. They never said anything. They had so much time to convey this and they didn't!
Pilot "WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF FUEL"
Air Traffic Control "OK, fly around in circles for two more hours"
"Low on fuel" is not a specific term and it is used rather liberally in commercial flights. There's a reason "emergency" is a specific term used to initiate specific protocols, while "low on fuel" is basically just a way for flight crews to try and get their flight in ahead of others who are in queue.
yey, they are overconfident and belief planes cannot crash no matter what.
There are terms according to it if the co pilot said "Avianca 52 declaring an emergency we are low on fuel" if he said this thenn ATC would been more serious cause co. Pilot was saying low on fuel meaning it was not serious rather than it was so it's about communication error
Language is significant. Priority apparently meant something different to the air traffic controllers in English than it did to the copilot, which meant emergency in his culture
@@aly7914 its not only English, priority isnt a word u use in the world of aviation, communication in aviation is very precise, both pilots and ATC are trained to use very specific vocabulary, idk why these pilots failed at that, I mean its an old crash so training back then was probably not as good these days.
It's amazing that there was only that crash that night
Funny that. It's almost like this particular crew was negligent in continuing the flight to NYC even after they'd used all their planned fuel for the trip.
For someone to fly a B707 for six and half hours manually from Colombia with no ATP surely his stress level was definitely high. My take, despite the accident in my books he deserves an award. As a human being he outdid himself.
He sure did. He didn't declare an emergency when it should have been.
@@5GreenAcres what is more urgent than saying we're running low on feul, we can't wait for 5 more mins. even if he didnt say mayday. btw the captain said emergency plenty of time the co pilot who comunicated with the controllers was a bit too polite and didnt pass the information urgently enough. but than again they were passed from one controller to another and they didnt transfer the info amongs themselves so even if he did i doubt they would have helped him any better
The fact that the airline just expected their pilot to hand fly a 707 from South America to NYC, through some of the world’s busiest airspace, in some of the worst weather all year - that had been accurately forecasted, was setting their flight crew up for a complete disaster!
@@Noa-cc9ur clearly declaring an emergency doesn't make you impolite. The co-pilot lied to his captain in order to save face. Not only that, the co-pilot could have easily said no when the controller asked them if they had enough fuel to be diverted 15 miles out. He didn't.
Yes but there were great pilots before auto pilot..
34:56 is probably one of the most hauntingly beautiful piece of cinematography I've ever seen
The Captain on the flight is the one in command and makes all the decisions of when and where to divert based on the weather conditions at the destination airport, the alternate airport and the fuel on board. With the weather info available to him and fuel remaining in this case, his only reasonable choice was to request a divert to an alternate.
In over 35 years flying for an Air Carrier, I can remember only one time I was really concerned about remaining fuel load. Ironically it was also on an approach into JFK as a First Officer on a 747. Weather was below our approach minimums so we held until fuel remaining minimum for a divert to Dulles.
We requested and were cleared on a route to Dulles but then after a few minutes New York control called and said JFK was above minimums and was accepting arrivals again.
The Captain said ask for vectors for the arrival. We knew Approach was going to vector us out over the Atlantic (seems like half way to Europe ) before turning on finale.
We saw the runway on short finale and then tower said Go Around, TWA landing ahead of us missed the taxi exit in the fog / mist and was still on the runway.
The long vector around for another approach was the most stressful I ever had knowing that a divert now to an alternate would be doubtful.
Once you divert to an alternate, Never turn back unless you are on fire!
I also flew the B-707 aircraft type for a few years that was in this accident. The only hydraulic primary control on it is the rudder. The elevator and ailerons are just cables powered by pilot muscles. With out the auto pilot it feels a lot like steering an old farm truck with out power steering. After 6+ hours of that, the Captain must have been exhausted.
THIS PILOT APPEARED TO BE DEAF !!!
This might be my favorite Mayday episode ever. My anxiety was through the roof the entire time.
“My shift is finished bro, whatevs”
Ikr, "yea their engines are out cuz something about fuel, not my problem bro, good luck"
I remember the crash. I live on long island and with my job, I had to go to the crash site twice. We moved the people out of the house so it could be rebuilt. The impact of the cockpit pushed the house off of its foundation. The woman living in the house took a long time to recover emotionally. When she opened her front door, the front of the plane was right there.
Damn. That would be a traumatic experience for anyone to endure. I hope they've found peace
These pilots needed to be more assertive !!!!
Holy smokes! Feel like I’d have had to move… 😩😫 I could never unsee it after that… no doubt there was blood on the windows and the smell of twisted metal… no thank you
nightmare
Wow... I can't imagine the front of a plane is just right there.
I wonder how am I still not afraid of flying even after watching so many episodes of Mayday.
I WONT GET IN A PLANE NO MORE, IVE BEEN LIKE THAT SINCE MY 40S. I ALSO HAVE BEEN HAVING MANY DREAMS OVER THE YEARS SINCE CHILDHOOD OF PLANES CRASHING NEAR ME AND I HAVE TO RUN FOR IT.
Shoot not me. I'm fixing on canceling my ticket to go on our yearly guys trip coming up in a few weeks.
That is good, because if you are to die my water, you cannot die in fire..
“Thousands of angry passengers “. Would you rather crash and die? I never understand that. I rather be delayed then get on a plan during a storm and probably crash. I might be a little upset because no one wants to be stuck in an airport. I’m from NY and know JFK. I hate that airport. It’s a big airport that’s always congested and easy to get lost in.
I'd never understand the entitlement. It's one thing if the flight delay or cancellation was due to overbooking. But if you can see the storm right outside, I would shut up and wait so I would, I don't know, not die???
Call from God like this😀
I worked for Usair ( Usairways) in Philly for almost 16yrs. My first year was spent inside ( worked the boarding gate) flight announcements, taking tickets and boarding passengers. The abuse that we had to take for weather delays was unreal!! After that first year I was lucky enough to transfer outside to the ramp as a baggage handler. Best decision I ever made ( bags don't talk back) and complain about fog, rain, snow, sleet, hail or high winds 🤔
Have you ever been to an airport and seen the people? They're horrific.
@@graceslick705 we experience the same abuse at septa,snow,detours,accidents etc delay service but guess what? It’s the bus drivers FAULT.
Two weeks ago, I watched the last interview about the survivors (father and daughter) of this tragic accident. the man married again and has 2 children. The daughter (is almost 30 now) has a daughter of the same age when she suffered the accident. As a curious fact, a dog that came in the hold with the luggages also survived in that accident.
This reminds me a lot of the American Airlines flight that crashed in Colombia outside of Calí...dog, daughter, father combo
Your comment refers to AA flight 965...
😔
@@ariahazelwood3842 Weird.
Poor doggo must've been terrified 😢
I watched other incident cases.. and on those cases, the air traffic controller was taking initiative to ask the pilots whether they want to declare "emergency status". The pilots here were under stressed, already declaring out of fuel & demand priority. So if the "emergency" term is very crucial to the ground team, they can simply ask the pilots in a Yes/No question form.
Agreed. It's just excuses
@@AlEtteso Unfortunately it’s not “just excuses.” Aviation follows a very strict protocol for the purpose of allowing actual emergencies to be given the utmost attention. Without the word “emergency” or “mayday,” the situation is deemed to be under control. This was the pilots’ fault, at least partially. Poor decision making in the cockpit doesn’t mean air traffic control is to blame.
When a pilot declares emergency he gets buttfucked by bureaucracy later, many cases of pilots risking people's lives because declaring a emergency would end their careers
@@XxXNOSCOPEURASSXxX Such as?
Edit: heh, still no answer 2 weeks later.
@@squares4u Very true.
Thanks!
Thanks for the support! 🥳
34:55 one of the most bone-chilling, terrifying shots of the entire Mayday series.
Yes
agreed
Its a good thing they had ran out of fuel otherwise the plane would've exploded on impact. But then again if they hadn't run out of fuel they wouldn't had crashed in the first place.
*shudders* yes...I found it very impactful. Ugh, I just realized that I made a pun, I swear I didn't intend to >< Horrible situation that could have been avoided!
This was completely avoidable!! I hope pilots and air traffic controllers learned something from this...wow
No auto pilot. Should'nt have been cleared for flying. Once again, money is more important than human safety.
As long as there is money to be made by pushing safe limits, it'll keep happening
@@SuperNuclearUnicorn yep!!!
@@SuperNuclearUnicorn boeing in a nutshell my man
Es claro que la Torre no les importa
por que el avión viene de Sur America.
Es sencillo, El controlador de la torre los mató.
Wow, what a captain. The captain was flying for over 6 hours manually. He was putting in some serious work especially in those conditions. It most likely tired him out physically and mentally.
Edit: Woah! Over 660 likes lmao.
Especially that the wind made it that much harder to control the aircraft. It’s like trying to drive a car through a category 5 hurricane. Especially with low fuel which adds that to the stress of the crew.
@@Davidkiser13 And don't forget he had no autopilot. That's like driving a car without power steering.
@@iClone101 not really, he already explained no auto pilot, no auto pilot would be like no auto drive in a Tesla
plane shouldnt have been allowed in the air wiytjout autopilot to begin with
@@NickyD dunno. It isn't too bad that pilots have some good old practise. Keeps the skill high.
OMG! I have a really bad anxiety when it comes to flying by myself but being on a plane like this with my two kids (one of them is a little baby) knowing the danger we are in and not being able to protect them.... Seeing them scared and being unable to do anything about it... Makes me want to cry my eyes out.... Poor little darlings! 😭😭😭
The second weather control office manager in Purple color shirt resembles Hollywood actor ED HARRIS !!
The ignorance of the air traffic controllers is unbelievable. That crash could have been avoided.
"Ignorance" about what, exactly? Fuel gauges they couldn't possibly see? Believing the pilots when they kept accepting instructions they knew they couldn't follow? Please, do tell.
@@icemachine79 Why would they need to see the fuel gauges? The pilots said multiple times they were almost out of fuel and needed priority. The controllers only defense was that they didn't use the word "emergency" and didn't think the pilots conveying that they were almost out of fuel and needed priority was indicative of an emergency. Are the air traffic controllers that incompetent that they don't know that an airplane needs fuel to stay in the air? Almost being out of fuel is clearly an emergency, and the pilots requesting priority clearly means they need immediate landing. Anyone with a shred of common sense would know that without needing to specifically hear the word "emergency".
@@pauldavis5665 "Almost out of fuel" could mean 50 minutes or 5 minutes. ATC had no idea how far the plane could go. The co-pilot also said YES when asked if they could handle another approach. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@pauldavis5665 You realize pilots have to do at least some work and take responsibility for their own actions, right? Common sense tells us that agreeing to go a certain distance when you only have fuel for half that distance is stupid.
@@icemachine79
At what point does "we are running out of fuel" NOT represent an emergency?
So at the end of the day, the greed and incompetence of the airline industry buried innocent people 6 feet under. You can blame the pilots and controllers and weather all you want, but if the airport was not that jammed, the controllers and pilots not that overworked, they would've landed safely.
True true.
The pilots and controllers were doing the best they could in a horrible situation. The greedy air traffic managers who wanted inhuman results from their controllers are the ones that caused this.
@Chuck Yeager
^ bot/s.hiII account.
@@gobbledygoook What's new....
I don't know what the regulations were back then but my understanding is that planes need to declare may day or pan pan when they get under the amount of fuel needed to divert plus I think 15 minutes extra for holding and go around. I'm no expert but seems most of the blame is in the cockpit and some on the ATC for not taking a more proactive attitude to make sure the plane could do what they were asking since they already said they were low on fuel, however low on fuel doesn't mean about to fall out of the sky like was the case in reality. If may day was called out at the right moment they would all be alive. the weather didn't crash this plane and not ATCs lack of enthusiasm either but rather the flight crew. With all those drug mule's it makes you wonder if they didn't want to declare anything as to not bring on additional scrutiny not to mention taping the flight data recorder is odd to say the least (maybe a cost cutting strategy not sure).
‘Running out of fuel’ should’ve triggered a sense of urgency 😞 or so they hoped.
Nope. You always have to declare an emergency. You have to say "Mayday" three times. It's the standard of the planet and for some reason these substandard pilots skipped that day of flight school.
“for some reason”? They were flying the plane manually for over 6 hours straight, old man. If anything maybe the ground crew could’ve been more competent at listening instead of handing over to other crew making the pilots re-explain the situation from the start.
@@letssaylalala Ground crews and ATCs the world over are trained to respond only when an emergency is declared. Why? Because they're not psychic and are not in the cockpit. The pilots bear the SOLE responsibility of declaring an emergency, which these pilots clearly did not. It's a simple procedure, say the word "Mayday" three times. So why did these pilots not do that? Incompetence, poor training, language barriers? All pilots and ATCs must be able to speak English competently because it is the language all countries have agreed upon to be the language spoken on international flights.
So, in recognition of these agreed upon and established FACTS, the pilots are the ones at fault. If they couldn't speak English properly, then they should not have been flying international flights. If they can't follow the agreed upon rules of declaring an emergency, then they shouldn't be flying planes and shouldn't be in charge of people's lives. Flying is a rules and procedures-based experience and if your pilots are incapable of following them, then again, I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to understand, they SHOULD NOT BE PILOTS.
@@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368 lmao how sad your life must be.... Sure bud the pilots are 100% to blame whatever you say whatever helps you sleep at night? happy? what a child....
@@TheFrogInYourClosetWatchingYou Clearly you're not a pilot, know nothing about aviation, and get upset and lash out when someone slowly and clearly explains the facts to you. Feel free to look up all I've said to confirm that it's the truth. But I know you won't because that takes tens seconds of effort. You'll just stomp your feet, hurl your insults, and refuse to admit you're wrong. Cognitive dissonance and wounded pride is quite interesting to watch in the ignorant.
This was so unbelievably avoidable... it's heartbreaking. I blame the air traffic controllers.
I blame the pilots. They were in countrol. They could of went. To boston. Or any other places ...they F**led up
They should all go to jail.😢😢
I disagree with NTSB. Air traffic control kicked them around like a soccer ball
I’m so happy baby Daniella lived. 😭. I’m amazed any survived at all.
You realize the pilots didn't have to accept the instructions, right? They could have refused the hold at CAMRN and gone to Boston instead. Technically, that's what they were *supposed* to do according to the rulebook since they'd used up all their planned fuel already.
@@icemachine79 zero 5 2 heavy come in?
They did not have to let ATC kick them around like a soccer ball. They had the right to say no we cannot do that if they knew they were low of fuel and needed to land NOW? . Why did they let ATC keep kicking them around like a soccer ball?
All the pilots had to do was declare an emergency. The captain repeatedly asked the first officer to declare an emergency and he never did. All to the contrary, he transmitted "we're running out of fuel" and the ATC cleared them for landing almost immediately (2 minutes later) ASKING if going 15 miles away (to line up with the runway) would be OK, and the first officer downplayed it with a simple "I guess so".
They never said how much time they had left. They never declared an emergency, and the call for "priority" was only ONE MINUTE before the crash. Read the transcripts.
It’s amazing there wasn’t a tremendous loss of life on the ground. RIP to all those who lost their lives. This was so easily avoidable and thus so much more tragic.
I also find it incredible too that they had more than a couple of survivors. I'd like to see a scientific analysis of the reasons. Perhaps there is something to the witness statements that the plane "just fell from the sky". My guess: It would have had to stall at a very low altitude to simply drop and not be smashed into a thousand pieces. And of course, it didn't hurt that there was no fuel to feed a crash fire.
The lack of fuel probably saved all the survivors. Plane crashes when the plane still has a lot of fuel or horrible, anyone that doesn’t die in the crash ends up being burned alive.
Air traffic control were disgraceful and this wasn’t just human error it was negligence.
Who leaves a shift in the middle of an emergency and fails to pass on that info? Why would you even leave in the middle of it?
@@frankboff1260
Yes. I hope it haunts that guy.
@@frankboff1260 I agree ATC should be ashamed. It was their fault for not getting that plane on the ground ASAP! How horrifically tragic!
Pilot: We have lost all engines and a pilot is dead. We need "priority".
After crash,
Control tower: He didn't say "emergency".
I agree. Pilot didnt declare an emergency
@@camillecastellano158 Okay , let me put it this way.
Pilot: Left engine is on fire, cabin is filled with smoke. Right engine stopped working. We need priority landing.
Tower: Okay, continue holding pattern.
After crash,
Control tower: He didn't say "emergency".
Then declare an emergency, pan pan, or May Day and shut up about it
@@gamebegins3176 In a situation like that, it would likely play out more like this.
Pilot: Left engine is on fire, cabin is filled with smoke. Right engine stopped working. We need priority landing.
Tower: Would you like to declare an emergency?
Pilot: Yes.
The issue is that low fuel doesn't necessitate an emergency, unless it is made clear that there are no other options. Not to mention, how many other flights were also complaining about being low on fuel? ATC starts to lose track. At that point, you need to declare an emergency.
ATC: Can you handle another approach?
Co-Pilot: Yes.
A few seconds before crash,
Co-Pilot: I probably shouldn't have said that.
I'm so glad almost all the babies were alive, rest in peace to the little angel who didn't make it and was taken too soon!!!
Flight attendants tell the parents to put the babies on the floor ….. like wth ? Put them on the floor
They should have went to Boston , the new Yorkers are all attitude
6hrs flying a big plane manually. That's some piloting... Sad ending to a great effort
And failed to say one word, "EMERGENCY"..
Except maybe this is another example of human error. Why was he flying a plane he knew had no auto pilot (not working I mean)?
@@kayakaziloqo7297 everyone should be blamed for this
@@CovidConQuitTheCensorship it is not necessary to fly with autopilot it is a luxury like cruise control.
@@tankthearc9875 Do airplanes have cruise control? I thought that WAS the autopilot.
The pilots did everything they were told and more. There was no mechanical failure or pilot incompetence this was new York airport staff being hounded by their bosses to land as many airplanes as possible over human lives. Greed led to the deaths of half the people on the flight. There was no other reason for the plane to be circling around an airport for 2 hrs.
Clearly you do not understand aviation, airport operations, or air traffic control. The flight crew is in charge of flying the plane, including managing fuel consumption. ATC is in charge of ensuring planes land as quickly and safely as possible. In bad weather, ATC is much more busy. and don't have time to babysit incompetent pilots and their fuel. The captain repeatedly told the FO to declare an emergency, but the FO never did. Again, ATC doesn't have time, especially at a busy airport like JFK, and in bad weather, to ask pilots to clarify their situation. If the FO would have declared an emergency, they would have gotten 1st priority and landed safely. When you declare an emergency, you own the sky.
The captain isn't called the "pilot in command" for no reason
no, the pilots should have declared an emergency. They didn't.
@@timschmitt7550 its not that simple
The pilots definitely should of had a cut off line where they could still make there alternative airport.
But forcing the airports to take more planes then they could handle then adding in how they where being handed off constantly & causing questions to be unanswered and liability to be handed off to the next guy plus add in the pilots tiredness from not having a working auto pilot it all just comes down to greed and shouldn't of happened
I feel so spoiled to get 50+ minutes every Thursday. Favorite day of the week!
Haha me too
Same here!
@@plasmada263 0
I love watching these every Thursday and on top of it being Thursday, today is the day before my highschool graduation and instead of worrying about saying goodbye to my friends I am going to calm myself down by watching this episode. I haven’t seen it yet so I don’t know if it’s going to make me more nervous or not lol
Exactly, these are amazing!
The production of these is top notch
No fuel meant no explosion that is what saved the remaining survivors. This was very sad to die like this!
Yes great point! If you're gonna crash do it without fuel! LOL
I know that air traffic management were highly responsible, however, if I had been the captain of an aircraft with such low fuel I am absolutely sure I would have been calling 'mayday' and making the ground very aware of the emergency. How you could allow your plane to be up in the air with only 8 minutes of fuel is inconceivable to me.
That is my thought..tower controllers are not to blame but the pilots here...they know what will happen if misunderstood so what waa their desperate plan Z? Fall out of the sky, wait for 8 minutes to death
The pilots knew their situation better than ATC. It was their job to communicate clearly to ATC what they wanted.
@Jane, exactly.
ATCs could have handled this better, there is no doubt about that but I'd say the pilots are predominantly to blame.
1. Avianca's lawyer talks about how washington center's order to land maximum planes at New York led to a traffic jam and unreasonable holding times, and that is true but why didn't the pilots choose to go their alternate well in time? When they did think of Boston it was already late.
2. If the pilots had checked the weather reports for their destination, they would know they might have a missed approach and would have pushed the ATCs harder for landing clearance with sufficient fuel left for a 2nd approach. Notice that they did have enough fuel if they could have landed during their first approach. If they knew about the weather they would have planned for enough fuel for a 2nd approach as well. Not to mention, it would have also indicated them that there might be a traffic jam and would have prompted them to switch to their alternate much sooner.
3. I don't see what stopped pilots from saying 'mayday mayday mayday for fuel' when they started using their reserve fuel which looks to be 20,000 gallons or even at a later point. That surely would have caught the attention of ATCs.
4. CRM wasn't great. The flight engineer advised the captain to keep the nose pitch gradual and smooth well before the approach and yet the captain still climbed sharply. Even if we say that's the nature of go-arounds, the captain didn't trust the FO to be conveying messages to ATCs and always doubted the FOs communications with the ATCs and was aggressive with his voice when talking to FO and FE.
5. I know this is not the only instance but I still find it shocking that someone who couldn't speak English well was allowed to fly an international flight.
@@geletoz You could be a relative of the interested parties here.
@Ellis James first mistake was telling them fly to JFK under horrible conditions
My anxiety level went off the roof.
😂🤣
Isn't it through the roof ? Off the scale?
@@lorimiller4301 sure, you get what I mean. 😂
Same here
Did it came back?
Anytime i watch an episodes that says ‘atc transcripts and eyewitness accounts’ i feel glad that someone survived, cause no cockpit recorder transcript etc is mentioned; but then i imagine survivors’ guilt/trauma, and once that hits, I can never decide what would be worse- dying or surviving.
Survivors guilt ?! Bahahaha not ….. run for the hills , lawsuit , happily ever after
@ericbeck1461 I won't go into mental impact and trauma because clearly you won't understand. But imagine the lifelong consequences your body might suffer. Your spine, your brain, all the possible injuries, recovery, surgeries and possible disability. No money will give you your health back.
Pilots must use the technical language understood all around the world and must not deviate from it. Emergency, mayday, etc. is a must when this situation arises. The Avianca pilots were too polite / timid in expressing themselves to the control tower. The control tower heard low fuel and frankly should of been more active to get this plane to land asap.
The pilot didn't speak English so it was solely on copilot but I would have said as a emergencia no gasolina atc should understand or infer in not far off from English
@@clarissajones9771 If the captain couldn't speak Aviation English, he should not have been permitted to fly a plane outside of his home country. Full stop. This has been the case since the 1950s. Most countries will not let a foreign airline that doesn't require at least a Level 4 proficiency in Aviation English for their pilots land planes at their airports.
I would have said the below at least at the halfway mark,
"D**b f**ks, Avianca 52 heavy is outta the m****r f**king fuel."
and I would have been deemed as an inappropriate pilot due to language.
But if that managed to save those lives I'd still say,
"Now that I saved the say, who gives a f**k"
@@LukeDeveraux OR, you could just use "pan pan" or "Mayday" the way you are supposed to be trained. Or do you think pilots ignore their training regularly?
@@Uldihaa
It's their daily edge which mostly over shadow things despite their experience or training. When you have done the same thing over and over day in and out, then you tend to have that level of confidence that could eventually dig your own grave.
So many factors end of the day got stacked against this flight or any flight we see on most of the documentaries.
No matter how experienced one can be, we always should have a personal checklist of our own when we conduct ourselves. While at ground, sky is the limit but in sky gravity is your enemy or friend depending the situation.
This is not the first disaster of its kind. Then as a pilot you should be better prepared.
We as humans can point fingers at each other. But it's better be alive to do that.
The lack of communication is so frustrating and sad ! Had they only kept repeating how serious their situation was 😔
exactly
the accident is a culmination of many faults after all. the pilots cannot speak when the frequency is used by other aircraft at the same time and its very important for the instructions to be given to every other aircraft as well if not more than one accident would have happened that night
One word, EMERGENCY
No, If they had only declared an Emergency and said May Day, were need to land now.
@@kayakaziloqo7297 That would have gotten to the head of the line and on the ground safely.
A lack off communication from BOTH parties resulted in this terrible situation.
It sucks how safety is not top priority but getting in as many flights as possible regardless of the bad weather is.😐
P.S also the lack of auto pilot!! How was THAT allowed to happen.
I expected the investigation to place an emphasis on the changes to different air traffic controllers not passing on the information, like they’re running out of fuel.
Also greed to take so many planes with bad weather
@@Sunset553 yes not passing the info is almost criminal.
@@nstl440 definitely!
You should gogle aerolineas argentinas case, their planes were flying with faulty systems, emergency warnings, vital systems off, their planes where literally not fly worthy
The controllers here were “blameless”. Right. So “we are in an emergency” “we are low on fuel” “we need priority” “we lost two engines” “we have enough fuel for only 5 minutes” does not mean anything serious? This is, in my opinion, only the fault of the controllers.
True ,this is an.example of irresponsible controllers.
Yes I’m no professional but I would have made any of those concerns a priority the atc failed them big time.
I agree. The controllers were incompetent
“we are in an emergency” was never said, they also did not inform ATC about losing engines. They also did not give a specific amount of fuel remaining. All that they actually broadcasted was that they were "low on fuel" with under 10min of fuel remaining (standard is *1 hour* to declare that without emergency), and that they "need priority", which does not have any specific meaning in aviation but is generally used to mean "at least get me out of holding".
Determining what is and isn't an emergency and deciding whether or not to divert the aircraft is entirely on the crew, not the controllers.
@@trentspears9118yes the pilots said " we are on low fuel" it doesn't mean serious cause that means they can't fly to another country bt can land if the pilot used "we are declared emergency" then ATC would immediately knew what to do
These fools acting like they don’t know what “priority” means... No, sir, that was not a language barrier issue; that was pure ignorance. 🙄
priority means first with haste
@@draconightwalker4964 It doesn't. That would be Mayday x3. Priority means higher on the list, and he didn't even say top priority, with you could argue would be first. Or they could say first priority
Even after two engines fail, he didn't declare an emergency... even when all engines fail he didn't declare an emergency.
@@draconightwalker4964 yes in *Spanish* but in English it doesn't- where this word means first but doesn't convey "emergency" AT ALL. I think this is part of the reason there was so much misunderstanding between the flight deck and ATC.
@@sannethomsen6421 I dont know how educated you have to be to work air traffic control but two engines failing should have conveyed an emergency in and of it self. The entire state of the crew saying they only had minutes of fuel left should have conveyed that they needed to be landed first and foremost. I dont think faulting them for not saying the specific word that should have been clearly understood from the situation is helpful at all.
I would put 70% blame of controllers. They should have given enough training to assist those planes with priority who mention about their fuel level. These kind of cases should not be transferred. Also if by any chance they have to transfer these cases, atleast they should have informed everything to the other controller about the situation. Pilots should know way before when to declare emergency. They shouldn't wait until last moment and even after declaring the emergency they should have fuel for atleast 3-4 attempt. This was completely avoidable situation.
agreed. pilots shouldn’t have waited as long as they did to start reporting low fuel but once they did make them aware , the ATC should’ve handled it better. definitely not switching between all these employees & not even giving important info. I think shift changes in the airline industry should be in a way that doesn’t take focus off the airline & their crew.
@@gottalovebri If the pilots had used the industry standard vocabulary to convey the urgency of their situation they wouldn’t have been passed around.
@@dominaevillae28 The fault in with the pilot. The NEVER should have allowed their airplane to run low on fuel.
I agree with this assessment.
@@ellisjames7192 they said THREE TIMES in 6 minutes that they were running out of fuel. And the main pilot should honestly be absolved of any blame. He kept trying to tell the first officer to express the severity of the situation, to say they were low on fuel and to say that it was an emergency.
After watching many episodes over the years, I finally realize that.
Documentaries contain hidden life lessons.
Thanks!
This is the first episode I need to forward. Not because it is badly produced. Just because the anxiety and sadness it is giving me because of the fate of the passengers and crew.
So sad that they felt so inferior and not speaking up.
I agree with you.... I've taken the volume down to silent and stopping it.... no reason....
May they all RIP.
I cannot imagine a more terrifying moment than hearing the engines on your plane go down while in the air. 😭
Hearing an explosion that damages flight controls?
@@wordforgerSir this is not the episode for JAL 123
I can: it´s when the airplane or the engines catch fire just after takeoff...
Actually, if there has to be a crash landing, I'd rather it be with as little to no fuel as possible. That way, there's no fire or explosion on impact and a greater chance of survival.
Y'all can't deny that scene of the plane falling down in the misty night was well made. RIP passengers and crew 🙏
agreed. As I just commented prior, this episode was the best suspense show I've seen in memory. I was pacing, wringing hands, running my hands thru my hair--like I had a million riding on a game or something. The whole episode was excellent. Really helped that they had all that footage of the crash. I was really exhausted after the credits.
@@tanyajuli4145 Better than watching a movie sometimes lol
who else here is shouting "no! there is not enough fuel left!" whenever the ATC tells the pilots to go round AGAIN?
these documentaries get me so emotional. damn. 😥
Yes! I am so upset!
I know right haha we all would've been like "Yeah good luck, we're gonna land anyway"
@@meganruchwatercolors7186 *"Running out of fuel" does not tell you anything - you have one hour of fuel left you can tell the control tower "you are running out of fuel";* you have 30 minutes left "you are running out fuel" you have 30% of fuel left you are "running out of fuel", it does not QUANTIFY your situation, however you see "I have a 5 minutes of fuel left" everyone can see your dire situation
I was shouting declare a bloody emergency. Do you know why ATC gave them another go around when they said, "There is not enough fuel"? Its because they had been making wide turns and when ATC tried to give them another wide turn, their fuel response just meant that they can no longer do these wide turns and thus move them closer to the airport using small go arounds.
To have to go that far out on another approach, fifteen miles from the outer marker, I'm screaming. I'm screaming to the controller, "we running out of fuel and we're coming right back around. Sue me." 🤨
The whole plane crash sequence is better than most movies.
When I hear the videos talk about thousands of angry customers, I always feel the urge to say, rushing pilots and flying in storms because of impatience is what causes pilots to make mistakes and causes accidents. There are certain conditions that planes should not be flying in or landing in.
Passengers have a right to be angry. They purchased their tickets (which are not cheap, btw) with the (reasonable) expectation that their flight was going to be on time. They based everything, from their arrival, to what they are doing after they land, on that departure time.
@@jfangm there are weather conditions BEYOND THE CONTROL of pilots and airlines. Tickets/purchases can always be refunded, but you can't get your life back if you die in a plane crash because people are impatient and value speed over safety.. completely ridiculous logic.
@@jfangm You’re a dolt. No one controls the weather. I’d hate to have to sit next to you. I’d rather be alive than try and demand a pilot fly in horrific weather
@@dittohead7044
That is irrelevant. People have a right to be angry when a service they paid for cannot honor its agreement.
@@yespls6260
Doesn't matter. That does not give you the right to deny people their feelings.
Tragic. The initial instructions to get 33 planes landed asap added to this disaster. All the way down the chain, one ATC forgetting to tell the new ATC about checking on Boston and the dude wanting to end his shift looking at his watch, was just mind boggling. So sorry for the innocent lives lost.
I have NEVER been so annoyed at one of these episodes. I just am so sad for each event that resulted in this accident. Breaks my heart.
If someone was to tell me “we only have 5 minutes of fuel left” I would straight away understand I’ve got an emergency situation on my hands. These air traffic controllers clearly aren’t equipped with the skill required for the job: listening.
Never just a word, many decisions lead to tragedy!
I agree but it would be nice if they released the full recordings of ATC and the cockpit. These shows tend to exaggerate based on conclusions
@@RyanPhoenixAZ
That’s the one big thing that disappoints me about shows like this… when they leave out the voice recordings from the cockpit to air traffic control. Why do they fail to include them?? Sucks.
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 I don't think they're always released to the public. Not sure though
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 this brand makes really good series called “I shouldn’t be alive” where people tell you what they where doing and saying it’s very detailed and I would recommend the ice crevasse one with the two males and the 19 year old grizzly bear attack.
And no voice recording needed cuz they tell you their side of the story, so if their friend doesn’t make it they just tell their story and the parts they remember really well
@@RyanPhoenixAZ I shouldn’t be alive also has a really good where a guy goes insane in the jungle (I won’t ruin it) but they show a lot of pictures of the rescue at the end of these.
The going insane in the jungle one I think you’d really like because of the “conclusion”
I am really surprised at the outcome of this chain of errors.
But I'm much more surprised at how exhausted I was after ward. While watching I was up and down pacing, running my hands thru my hair, clenching my fists...the whole terror/anxiety gambit. This was really well directed and edited. The footage at the end? I'm speechless.
haha I know Im watching thinking maybe they'll make it had to remind myself, nope they go down. lol
This could have been avoided,it hurts..rip to the 73 lives lost
To be honest there's quite a bit that happened here that contributed to this disaster, though one of the main one's was the FAA being *stupid* and not heeding the advice of those on the ground. Part of why I hate the FAA.
For me, out of fuel is out of fuel. There is no B.S. that can get air traffic controllers out of their responsibilities. Air traffic manager in Washington D.C. Center is the culprit for this air disaster period. The fact that the documentary left out his name gave the hint. The a-hole is a cower and probably hunted by the victims’ spirit nightly......
@@renns0025 Or maybe the documentary doesn't even KNOW their name because it was never released.
Also, they actually weren't out of fuel until toward the end. Plus, you might want to take a gander at how many pilots have *falsely* claimed that they were out of fuel in order to be bumped against of everyone else(hint: alot. Up until my country made it a federal crime to do so). THAT is one of the reasons why you must declare am *emergency* when you have a problem.
🤣🤣🤣 United States is not North Korea. What you mean by MAYBE the documentary program didn’t know the air traffic manager’s name? It’s not classified. You make it sounds like a CIA agent-ish. How can the program reenact a scene without any credible evidence ? That’d be the worst reporter program (i.e. 60 Minutes ruined Audi on fake sudden acceleration story). I don’t believe the documentary made up stuffs but choose to cover up the real culprit due to the liability it may bring to the station network.
Same here. It was so avoidable..
33:25 This is so horrific. Imagine hearing those power down sounds as you’re a passenger in there… hearing not just one engine power down, but two, then more..
I heard a story once about this crash where the rescuers were trying to put a guy on a stretcher with a broken leg, but he refused and used a broken branch as a cane to walk to helicopters because there were people worse off than him who needed that stretcher more. Have no clue as to if it's true or not but it hammers in the human element to me. Terrible tragedy.
34:56 so eerie, imagine seeing that in real life, you're out walking one night and you don't even hear the plane getting closer until its too late
Scary
My biggest fear, I also live next to a community airport for twin engine types everytime I hear a plane flying above I pray it keeps airborn
@@JuanGarcia-or2ty part of my commute is near Indianapolis International Airport. After watching the episode on Air Florida 90, I'll be looking up as well as ahead.
Thanks a lot for uploading these old episodes! So good to be able to re-watch them (for like the umpteenth time^^)!
L
I must say these actors are incredibly believable. You instantly start to develop a strong level of aversion against the controllers (maybe even hate). In my opinion the controllers are solely to blame for this crash due to their negligence. It makes is it even more sad that the pilots after repeatedly indicating being low on fuel are blamed due to their lack of communicating the urgency and not using the word 'emergency', but 'priority' instead. I find this an outrageous conclusion of the investigation board. Who on earth in the position of a controller does not understand 'low on fuel' or 'priority'? Air Traffic Control found blameless? It is absolutely disgraceful and painful to hear. The controllers not admitting their mistakes, while they are responsible for the tragic deaths that should have been prevented, is just a big shame. Really, they should have been prosecuted for negligence and manslaughter. My heart goes to everyone who lost their lives in this crash and their loved ones. For those who have survived I hope they found a way to continue living.
I’m sorry, but this is incorrect. The pilots know far more about their aircraft and safety than the controllers do. As a pilot it is your responsibility to be clear, concise, and demanding (if need be). ATC are not mind readers. Avianca failed here to communicate the urgency of their fuel problem. They failed to declare a proper emergency (you can say Mayday Mayday Mayday, or “we are declaring an emergency”… the pilots did neither). They failed to divert the flight LONG before fuel ran out, even as they were in an indefinite holding pattern. The bad weather compounded the problem even further. This is solely on the flight crew, which is sad but the reality of these kinds of accidents. Pilot error is never easy to accept but it is what it is.
We need processes for these things. Well-defined formalities. Priority is subjective, no? You ask one person, you get one answer, ask another and get a different answer. But emergency is well-defined in the books. Everyone knows, down to every letter of the definition, know what it means.
The pilot specifically told the co pilot to tell them they were in an emergency and OUT OF FUEL not we are running out of fuel. Very big difference!!! Omgosh!
They NEVER told ATC they had an emergency. They just they are low on fuel and needed priority. We the got to the point they were out of fuel, that was the pilot fault.
They could have said no gasolina emergencia this is in Spanish but so close to English that atc could have figured that out
Imagine you survived the plane crash only to get arrested
😂😁 that's called AGONY!
I hate it that 72 innocent people died just because of stupid errors the plane was ok until it finished eating up the fuel...🤔😕
Lesson you can’t be passive aggressive when you are a pilot, let them know there is an emergency! The co pilot was way too kind.
Most pilots and ATC'S have the worst communication skills, EVER!!.... It's like they don't give a damn
@@kayakaziloqo7297 huh? they wouldn't survive long if they had worst comm skills.
Finally someone shedding light on the reality of the situation without trying to mock the Columbian pilots intelligence
Blaming the pilots for not being assertive is just damn ignorance. "We were running out of fuel" should have been enough for them to understand the situation. Being assertive doesnt mean a damn thing. Stupid
@@kellykiritsugu3027 You have no idea what you are talking about. In the aviation industry, declaring an emergency means using the actual words “we are declaring an emergency.” Or at least using “Pan Pan Pan.” Talking about low fuel does NOT indicate an emergency, and to top it off, the pilots chose not to divert to their alternate destination (Boston) when given the chance, and they also accepted a longer second approach to JFK after aborting their first landing.
man the acting of these episodes really puts us in that situation nicely
“We’re running out of fuel” is it enough to land that plane???? 🙄 tower control screwed it big time!!
Naw... Not enough to land the plane so I'll just..... You know... Keep flying around till we crash. Thanks 🙄🙄
THE BLAME GOES TO TOWER CONTROL. TOTALLY AGREE.
The blame lies squarely on the cockpit, which did nearly everything wrong. The airline was also negligent. The controllers were the least of it.
I feel it’s the corporates fault, they put the stress on the traffic controllers and that lead to them being unable to pickup on the fight crews attempts to convey their emergency, admitivly the crew really should of used mayday or pan pan pan. But they stressed
@@historytank5673
ATC did their jobs. The cockpit screwed up royally. Either tell them you're running out of fuel, or head up to Boston.
“Forgot about boston”
Welp that ATC was fired!
I am in awe when I see these videos because I am in my 70's and I remember many of the plane disasters in this Channel WONDER. The re enactment is incredible as is the acting. At the same time it is so sad and then I go "so that is what happened". I don't like to put blame I just pray for every soul, time was up. RIP.
I feel so bad for the pilot, he flew the plane manually for hours and said countless times to the copilot to say it was an emergency.
Assuming the recording of the cockpit is what we are hearing sadly the co pilot did not adequately portray his captain’s instructions forcefully enough
@@richardwait1206 yep. I understand proper terminology needs to be used in these situations… But at this point both pilots should have said something along the lines of: “YO!!! WE ARE OUTTA GAS! Y’all hear us NOW?! OUT. OF. GASSSSSS!!!!” 😳
@Vlasko60 Yes, captain told him to declare an emergency but the co pilot keep saying "Low on fuel, we need priority" Which is why ATC misunderstood them cause in Aviation terms it is different and also the final report says Pilot Error. Case closed
Lack of direct communication is a huge issue here. The pilot didn't communicate with the controllers directly. Controllers were switching few times. And all the responsibility of communicating how tragic was the situation was with the less experienced co-pilot
I bet the SOB Washington guy would not have forced to take 33 if his family was boarding any plane to land in NY in such weather that day.
Here we go again another episode !
A reason to live!🤷🏽♂️
@@HotTakeHQ so cheap your life that u r living for an episode ..dead life
@@asitpurohit_108 I don't think you get it- it's a joke
@@asitpurohit_108 lmao dude it went over your head
Air control guy: "I can't help you guys it's time for me to get off work. Bye."
Typical union worker.
Aren't there strict limits to how long they can work?
@@offensivediscourse8514
Show me a job devoid of overtime and overwork, and I'll show you a fake company.
These episodes are educational and exciting..i am almost at edge of seat