Brilliant video Jonathan. This is why I need a new simulator. I used to program the main computer on the IDS aircraft. You load the flight plan either manually via the TV-Tabs in the rear cockpit or via the rapid data entry unit which contained little more than a cassette tape. It was superseded in later variants. The flight plan entered in the INU is just a reversionary flight plan in case the MC packed in. The best bit of this video….the noise, shame they can’t recreate the smell. Well done and thank you.
Thank you sir! A typically Beckettian video, pedantic, precise and perfectly helpful in getting these fantastic beasts off the ground. Added to the Tornado exhibit in the FSM ... another acronym : < )
The good old days at Boscombe Down. Looking forward to getting this airborne on the Xbox, thanks for taking the time to put this and the checklist together, really good stuff - bought you a danish to go with your coffee 🙂
Looks like a great piece of work, though I rarely fly military jets in MSFS, not much point in my view. I do hope they do a DCS version (in a sort of reverse Razbam F-14) where the Tornado can be put to the uses it was created for.
It’s not properly aligned at 1, needs to hit 0 and stay there for at least another 2 counts. You should get the rapid heaters first to bring the platform up to temp before align. It’s also showing fault code 4. MC is Main Computer not master.
Hiya John, when I start up the aircraft and try and taxi, it won’t turn when I rudder. Is it like the F-18 where I have to turn on nosehweel steering or something?
Love this aircraft , love using it in crappy weather and flying an ILS How do you use approach mode? I think I’m missing something as it never captures the localiser or g/s
Does anyone know how to retract the lift dump spoilers with weight on wheels after landing? Earlier versions of the Tonka refer to moving the throttles sideways, but can't figure out how to do it in MSFS.
I'm a bit confused by the ground equipment and cockpit flow, when you went to start the APU a dash 60 cart appeared so it's on GPU rather than APU, does the cockpit has options for both and the ground equipment model reacts to each one?
I'm having some sound problems with mine. Just keeps constantly sounding like engines are igniting every 6-7 seconds or so with a crack and then high pitched whizzing noise which fades away and then repeats again every few seconds. I'm taking off and doesn't seem to effect performance etc but? perhaps simply a sound problem. It's quite an infuriating noise to constantly hear as I'm trying to fly. Not sure if there's something I need to do to the engines to change this? I'm a bit of a novice so perhaps missing something obvious but every video I have seen doesn't seem to have this issue. Have started from cold and once engines are on it does this every time. Anyone else getting the same?
Makes me laugh that people want an ultra realistic sim of an aircraft and complain the procedures are too long 😂 normal see off time for a tornado is about 30 mins from the aircrew arriving and including pilot walkround
That’s a very fair comment. I have a question though, weren’t these used as RAF QRA? If so, there must be a state the aircraft must be in?, etc as 30 mins surely wouldn’t class as QRA in my eyes anyway. I have no experience with it just a genuine question.
On real Tornado engine start you wait until NH RPM reaches 20% before opening throttle lever to idle which starts the fuel flow and the ignition. RH engine is always started first. The TBT switch is always set in the forward "Datum" position. If set to "Low" it reduces the max engine temperature which means less power. Other nations training units may have operated it in "Low" to make the engines last longer but not the RAF.
I just went and found the real Tornado GR1 POH - "With the X-drive clutch selected to AUTO, both gearboxes are driven by the APU and either engine may be started first." - also (as described in the document) the fuel flow and ignition sequencing is automatic - regardless of when the throttles are moved from cut-off, but obviously dependent on it. How come you know so much about it ? :)
Hi Jonathan, I was a propulsion technician on Tornado 1987-94 and again 2007-08. I would be starting these engines every day. The fuel and ignition will start as soon as you move the throttle from cut off. If there is no RPM you risk a "wet start" and possible engine damage. I have witnessed first hand a pilot opening the throttle with the engine not rotating. The RAF fire service were soon in attendance. Re the APU/gearboxes and Xdrive clutch:-Each engine has its own large gearbox mounted in a separate compartment in front of the engine, connected to it by a shaft. Both gearboxes are connected to each other via the Xdrive clutch. The APU is mounted on the RH gearbox. It is not very powerful when new, even less so after 6 months or so. Starting the LH engine first means the APU has to drive the RH gearbox and also the LH gearbox and have enough power left to actually turn the LH engine (through a torque convertor) when you select "Start". Its just too much load for the APU. Starting the RH engine first avoids all this and extends the life of the APU. Of course on a flight sim its all a bit pedantic I admit.
Moving the Throttle out of Cut off prior 21% will give you a hot start, and your day would be over...many things not accurate on this entire procedure...TBT on Low for GAF Tornadoes, that is true...
@@christianrode2549 I deliberately chopped many of the checks and tests from the procedure - reducing it to the systems that are actually simulated in any way. The documentation is a straight lift of the Panavia book - and has italics all over it saying "inoperative" or "not implemented" :)
Few points Mission computer not master computer HP cock wait till 20% nh Repeater map display is in the middle which a repeat from the back The guy in the back is a weapon systems operator not pilot Need to start right engine first as the apu is on no.2 gearbox The stick in the front is the control column not joystick 😂 You don’t taxi in a hangar with nws its towed in by the technicians. Engines running in the hangar is an absolute no unless it’s a hardened aircraft shelter (has) But other than that not bad
I'm sorry but did you really say you were using the real startup check list because there were so many things wrong here! First and most obvious if you had spent any real time on Tornado you'd know that the right engine is started first. The APU is connected to the right gearbox so that is the engine started first, then the X-drive is engaged to start the left. Certainly in the early days if you asked the APU to run both gearboxes and start an engine it would cut out with an overload. On a Tornado IDS/GR the wings are never moved on the ground because the nose wheel reaction is too low for them to be swept and there was a high risk of it standing on its backside. The F3 could do this but it was significantly longer. Oh, and the guy in the back is the Navigator, not a co-pilot.
I didn't say the real checklist - I said the one I wrote that follows the checklist that came with the aircraft for the simulator :) Simulated aircraft often differ from the real thing in lots of ways :) Edit (after an hour reading) - I just went and found the real Tornado GR1 POH - "With the X-drive clutch selected to AUTO, both gearboxes are driven by the APU and either engine may be started first." - also (as described in the document) the fuel flow and ignition sequencing is automatic - regardless of when the throttles are moved from cut-off, but obviously dependent on it. How come you know so much about it ? :)
@@jonbeckett 17 years working on the real aircraft. What you describe above is indeed the system operating description however in the early days the APUs were weak and couldn't actually support starting the left with the APU powering 2 x grearboxes and an engine. Laterly it could but the proceedures were in place by then. Also, the ladder was placed against the left side of the cockpit so starting the right first allowed the crew to escape in the event of a fire starting the 1st engine. They then had to accept the risk whan starting the sencond engine as the steps would have been removed.
@@Jim610 17 years exp hopefully you can answer my question. Where Is the canopy accumulator pressure indicator? I’m trying to follow the manual but can’t locate it. Found it on pg66 of the manual.
@@tk64681 It's on the outside skin of the left hand fuselage just below the cockpit. Placed there so it can be seen when the canopy is down and you are trying to get in. Once Hyd pumps are on it is fully charged but a cold aircraft might need the Hyd hand pump to charge the accu.
I cut out everything that's not required by the aircraft "as modelled" :) The written documentation is a straight lift of the Panavia book - but has italics all over it, explaining that most things are inoperative or not implemented - but often the switches still work so you can simulate doing things if you want. A good example is the rapid data entry - which loads the flight plan into the computer quickly - but relies on providing a flightplan - the actual navigation control keypad doesn't work. Another example is SPILS - which lights up, but doesn't do anything :) The procedures I put together always have the proviso "this is a starting point that you can take further" :)
You can download the startup procedure from the link below:
ko-fi.com/s/d846c13710
Thank you very much. Super done 🙏
Thank you! :)
Brilliant video Jonathan. This is why I need a new simulator. I used to program the main computer on the IDS aircraft. You load the flight plan either manually via the TV-Tabs in the rear cockpit or via the rapid data entry unit which contained little more than a cassette tape. It was superseded in
later variants. The flight plan entered in the INU is just a reversionary flight plan in case the MC packed in. The best bit of this video….the noise, shame they can’t recreate the smell. Well done and thank you.
Good job IndiaFoxtEcho team a masterpiece
Thank you sir! A typically Beckettian video, pedantic, precise and perfectly helpful in getting these fantastic beasts off the ground. Added to the Tornado exhibit in the FSM ... another acronym : < )
Cheers JB. These start up lists make using new aircraft soooo much easier. Sent you a few quid.
The good old days at Boscombe Down. Looking forward to getting this airborne on the Xbox, thanks for taking the time to put this and the checklist together, really good stuff - bought you a danish to go with your coffee 🙂
Thanks for this excellent video Jonathan. Really looking forward to this arriving on xbox
That is a Great colour scheme.
Looks like a great piece of work, though I rarely fly military jets in MSFS, not much point in my view. I do hope they do a DCS version (in a sort of reverse Razbam F-14) where the Tornado can be put to the uses it was created for.
Very exited for this!
Would like the pointers on the default checklist would be helpful for VR users finding the switches. Great aircraft!
That's why it took me hours to pick apart the instructions and find everything.
11:20 Inertial Nav needs to go to Align before NAV, and wait for STATUS 1, can take a while IRL
Great feedback - thank you!
It’s not properly aligned at 1, needs to hit 0 and stay there for at least another 2 counts. You should get the rapid heaters first to bring the platform up to temp before align. It’s also showing fault code 4. MC is Main Computer not master.
@@keithtruscott992 I stand corrected, it's been a while
Use the taxi nozzle switch just forward of the flap lever to open the nozzles and reduce ground taxi speed.
Hiya John, when I start up the aircraft and try and taxi, it won’t turn when I rudder. Is it like the F-18 where I have to turn on nosehweel steering or something?
Yes - it's in the instructions about assigning a key or button to the nose-wheel-steering.
@@jonbeckett which page? I can’t find it anywhere
Thank you Jonathan! Any plans for a Tornado navigation tutorial?
Yep - at some point :)
How to assign a key to rear cockpit view? What's the view called in MSFS? Thanks (bought you a coffee)
Move the camera, then press CTRL+ALT+num - then use ALT+num to use that view.
@@jonbeckett Thanks!
Brilliant video as always Jonathan, just one thing, what would be the in sim key command to map the high and low gain nose wheel steering?
You can map whatever key you want to it - it's in the documentation - page 8.
The repeater map display is in the middle not the top left which is the terrain following radar I think
You should have done this at Warton, where it would have been started up for the very first time.
The Tornado first flew in Germany - then did further testing at Boscomb Down :)
Love this aircraft , love using it in crappy weather and flying an ILS
How do you use approach mode? I think I’m missing something as it never captures the localiser or g/s
The 250 page manual says Approach mode is Inactive.
Like many addons for MSFS... the AP sux.
How do you get into the rear cockpit ?
Jonathan... the 400 page manual puts me off. Should I worry or just get it ?
Does anyone know how to retract the lift dump spoilers with weight on wheels after landing? Earlier versions of the Tonka refer to moving the throttles sideways, but can't figure out how to do it in MSFS.
I'm a bit confused by the ground equipment and cockpit flow, when you went to start the APU a dash 60 cart appeared so it's on GPU rather than APU, does the cockpit has options for both and the ground equipment model reacts to each one?
I'm having some sound problems with mine. Just keeps constantly sounding like engines are igniting every 6-7 seconds or so with a crack and then high pitched whizzing noise which fades away and then repeats again every few seconds. I'm taking off and doesn't seem to effect performance etc but? perhaps simply a sound problem. It's quite an infuriating noise to constantly hear as I'm trying to fly. Not sure if there's something I need to do to the engines to change this? I'm a bit of a novice so perhaps missing something obvious but every video I have seen doesn't seem to have this issue. Have started from cold and once engines are on it does this every time. Anyone else getting the same?
Not had this happen - it sounds like it might be to do with your controller configuration ? Like you're constantly hitting the start switches ?
@@jonbeckett Thank you, will have a look at that and try to reconfigure.
Hey Jonathan. Any chance of guiding us through the new BAe 146 FMS ? 👍
I already have :)
Makes me laugh that people want an ultra realistic sim of an aircraft and complain the procedures are too long 😂 normal see off time for a tornado is about 30 mins from the aircrew arriving and including pilot walkround
That’s a very fair comment. I have a question though, weren’t these used as RAF QRA? If so, there must be a state the aircraft must be in?, etc as 30 mins surely wouldn’t class as QRA in my eyes anyway. I have no experience with it just a genuine question.
On real Tornado engine start you wait until NH RPM reaches 20% before opening throttle lever to idle which starts the fuel flow and the ignition. RH engine is always started first. The TBT switch is always set in the forward "Datum" position. If set to "Low" it reduces the max engine temperature which means less power. Other nations training units may have operated it in "Low" to make the engines last longer but not the RAF.
I just went and found the real Tornado GR1 POH - "With the X-drive clutch selected to AUTO,
both gearboxes are driven by the APU and either
engine may be started first." - also (as described in the document) the fuel flow and ignition sequencing is automatic - regardless of when the throttles are moved from cut-off, but obviously dependent on it. How come you know so much about it ? :)
Hi Jonathan, I was a propulsion technician on Tornado 1987-94 and again 2007-08. I would be starting these engines every day. The fuel and ignition will start as soon as you move the throttle from cut off. If there is no RPM you risk a "wet start" and possible engine damage. I have witnessed first hand a pilot opening the throttle with the engine not rotating. The RAF fire service were soon in attendance.
Re the APU/gearboxes and Xdrive clutch:-Each engine has its own large gearbox mounted in a separate compartment in front of the engine, connected to it by a shaft. Both gearboxes are connected to each other via the Xdrive clutch. The APU is mounted on the RH gearbox. It is not very powerful when new, even less so after 6 months or so. Starting the LH engine first means the APU has to drive the RH gearbox and also the LH gearbox and have enough power left to actually turn the LH engine (through a torque convertor) when you select "Start". Its just too much load for the APU. Starting the RH engine first avoids all this and extends the life of the APU.
Of course on a flight sim its all a bit pedantic I admit.
Moving the Throttle out of Cut off prior 21% will give you a hot start, and your day would be over...many things not accurate on this entire
procedure...TBT on Low for GAF Tornadoes, that is true...
@@christianrode2549 I deliberately chopped many of the checks and tests from the procedure - reducing it to the systems that are actually simulated in any way. The documentation is a straight lift of the Panavia book - and has italics all over it saying "inoperative" or "not implemented" :)
Can you hit Ctrl + E ?
Looks way too complex this thing... the manual is like 300 pages 😂
If you think that’s bad try the real thing lol
Few points
Mission computer not master computer
HP cock wait till 20% nh
Repeater map display is in the middle which a repeat from the back
The guy in the back is a weapon systems operator not pilot
Need to start right engine first as the apu is on no.2 gearbox
The stick in the front is the control column not joystick 😂
You don’t taxi in a hangar with nws its towed in by the technicians. Engines running in the hangar is an absolute no unless it’s a hardened aircraft shelter (has)
But other than that not bad
I'm sorry but did you really say you were using the real startup check list because there were so many things wrong here! First and most obvious if you had spent any real time on Tornado you'd know that the right engine is started first. The APU is connected to the right gearbox so that is the engine started first, then the X-drive is engaged to start the left. Certainly in the early days if you asked the APU to run both gearboxes and start an engine it would cut out with an overload. On a Tornado IDS/GR the wings are never moved on the ground because the nose wheel reaction is too low for them to be swept and there was a high risk of it standing on its backside. The F3 could do this but it was significantly longer. Oh, and the guy in the back is the Navigator, not a co-pilot.
I didn't say the real checklist - I said the one I wrote that follows the checklist that came with the aircraft for the simulator :) Simulated aircraft often differ from the real thing in lots of ways :)
Edit (after an hour reading) - I just went and found the real Tornado GR1 POH - "With the X-drive clutch selected to AUTO,
both gearboxes are driven by the APU and either
engine may be started first." - also (as described in the document) the fuel flow and ignition sequencing is automatic - regardless of when the throttles are moved from cut-off, but obviously dependent on it. How come you know so much about it ? :)
@@jonbeckett 17 years working on the real aircraft. What you describe above is indeed the system operating description however in the early days the APUs were weak and couldn't actually support starting the left with the APU powering 2 x grearboxes and an engine. Laterly it could but the proceedures were in place by then. Also, the ladder was placed against the left side of the cockpit so starting the right first allowed the crew to escape in the event of a fire starting the 1st engine. They then had to accept the risk whan starting the sencond engine as the steps would have been removed.
@@Jim610 17 years exp hopefully you can answer my question. Where Is the canopy accumulator pressure indicator? I’m trying to follow the manual but can’t locate it. Found it on pg66 of the manual.
@@tk64681 It's on the outside skin of the left hand fuselage just below the cockpit. Placed there so it can be seen when the canopy is down and you are trying to get in. Once Hyd pumps are on it is fully charged but a cold aircraft might need the Hyd hand pump to charge the accu.
You are not following the correct procedure, just saying....but I guess the sim doesn't care
I cut out everything that's not required by the aircraft "as modelled" :) The written documentation is a straight lift of the Panavia book - but has italics all over it, explaining that most things are inoperative or not implemented - but often the switches still work so you can simulate doing things if you want. A good example is the rapid data entry - which loads the flight plan into the computer quickly - but relies on providing a flightplan - the actual navigation control keypad doesn't work. Another example is SPILS - which lights up, but doesn't do anything :) The procedures I put together always have the proviso "this is a starting point that you can take further" :)