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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Is the rock'n'roll lifestyle over? Is is detrimental to your reputation and your career? Is it uncool or just plain unattractive to live like that? Or is it just not sustainable? Let's talk about it and why this lifestyle is evidently changing.
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It was the secret song that swayed me.
In 1978 I was fortunate as a very underage teen that got to see The Sex Pistols in America at one of their only 6 shows, ever. Sid Vicious had carved Gimme a Fix into his chest, people were throwing glass bottles at the band and the band was throwing them back. The band was cursing everyone, Vicious was so messed up he was lying down for a significant part of the show, and despite the fact that I was fortunate to see/attend TONS of bands/shows from the late 70s into the 90s, this is my one favorite show memory.
I saw KISS, The Dead Kennedys, DEVO, The Cars, The Clash, Tom Petty, Rod Stewart, Queen, Joan Jett, Motley Crue, Van Halen, The Police, Def Leppard, Poison, Duran Duran, you name it, tickets were cheap back then and shows were awesome. I do think this mentality of today killed rock, this soft, always censored, always offended mindset of fake kindness and do gooderism.
As a grandma of 8 now, I looooooooathe it beyond words.
I'm doing my best to teach my grandkids what real kindness and morality is about and how to separate art from reality. Because that's real "wokeness."
I'd Thee proffer libation of thy choice on a Violet flower petal. Bromeo, i'd buy you a non alcoholic beverage of your choice. Swiggs Away, Maestro!
Always a sucker for a secret(ish) song lol 😂
I’m in
I don't think this lifestyle has gone out of style, it switched genres. If you look at alot of rappers and famous hip hop artists are very much famous for their "rockstar" lifestyle and ,of course their music. But the lifestyle hasn't ended nor changed, it just moved.
^ This
this is true
I was thinking the same.
I was about to write the exact same thing. Looking at UK grime, it's just moved. Being wasted and celebrating toxic male attitudes is the norm there
@grimble6261 omg, heroin and pills/pills+alcohol are nothing to encourage using either! Hell, I wouldn't even encourage coke or meth these days because even THOSE are being cut with fentanyl. Easier to get and cheaper to cut with, plus it's super addictive, so guaranteed return customers if they don't end up dead first. I'd add in crack for the same reason, but I don't think that shits been around for a while now. Definitely not like it was.
I'm so terrified of just partying one time now because it could kill me and my adult children don't even want to experiment with anything other than weed or psychedelics like psilocybin, LSD, DMT, ketamine because they've seen one too many classmates and their favorite musicians accidentally die off of just one Xanax pill laced with fentanyl. A 14 year old girl at our local high school took what she thought was a Xanax from her boyfriends stash and dropped dead within minutes. No thank you! One night of debauchery is not worth the risk, so I'm afraid these kids won't be leaving their computers anytime soon and I'm not accepting a rail from NOBODY.😂
From now on I'm just leaving my shirt unbuttoned all the time.
You think you can rock a Justin/Cornell ?!!!
I've no shirts in my possession which do button, so...
Mission accomplished on my end; no fuss - no muss.
@@d33j4ybf 😂😂🤣🤣🤘🤘🤘🤘
Unzipped for me.
I'd have someone's eye out.
Justin's look is on point today...hair, shirt, stubble length...rock 'n roll! 🤘
“That stuff” from the 60s-90s would also have been toned down if everyone had a camera on their phone and social media accounts.
Bingo!
Bingo ! ( twice ) .
Bingo! (Thrice!)
Yeah I agree. The world changed when cameras went on to phones.
They would've told them to fu ck off
There's a book by Ian Winwood, called bodies. It's talks about the changes in the supposed lifestyle. He talks about the fact that artists aren't earning anywhere near the amounts of money you need to live the lifestyle. Worth a read.
@@mezzb My problem with your maths is that it's assuming that 25 million streams is harder to acquire than 100k record sales. I think most modern artists would agree that it's easier to get 25 million streams than 100k sales. You can stream a song 100 times but most people aren't buying an album twice. However I guess you could argue that the streams is a slower trickle of money and thus doesn't allow the 'get rich quick, blow all the money on drugs' as much.
I think the one reason we don’t see this lifestyle amongst the “well known” musicians anymore, is that far too many musicians, starting out, paying their so called dues, are already trying to live the life of rock stars and burning out, or splitting up, long before they’ve made it.
The fact there's no money in music is the main factor we don't see it as much.
@@mikethebloodthirsty I suppose that would depend on where you are based and the type of market you cater for. Where I am, a band willing to do parties and weddings etc, on the side, can make a very comfortable living and still pursue a recording career, in the hopes of “breaking through and making it”. So talent is more a factor than money.
I've played drums for 30 years across too many bands across 100's perhaps 1000's of shows. I was always the guy with a drink and a cigarette at all times before during and after a show. my alcohol tolerance got the the point that 5 beers preshow did nothing but make me have to piss 1/2 way through the 3rd set. I still drink, but never live anymore and TBH after a while, playing sober made me realize just how much fun playing music sober is. I'm way more in the moment and thankful for it. Especially when you're playing onstage with absolute killer players, an amazing stage, and a next level sound tech. Thank you for your insight on the matter Justin. Best channel on the interwebs.
There's just no place for it out there anymore. The cost of everything related to touring is SO sky high right now, that the bands are already heavily invested, exposed with a lot at risk, with little promise of even a modest payoff. Even one cancellation can put a tour in the red. You can't have anyone in the van with you whose conduct could cost you a gig, either through self-destructive behavior, or because they're still in the last town speaking to the police about some aspect of their conduct. Bail money is NOT in the tour budget.
Thanks! I have lost too many "local" musician friends to addiction. The hotel room parties were insane, but i have also hung out with many "professional" musicians backstage who didn't drink or party at all. In the later 80s in the US, it was becoming apparent to all of us that the drinking and drugs were taking a toll on the music, and some started to make a conscious effort to stop. Queensryche and Apocalyptica didn't have alcohol backstage at all. I have my own rule that if I am with someone who doesn't drink, I don't either. It is hard enough for them, and I don't want to make it any harder.
Who?
@@Junkhead91 Who have I lost?
You can be clean, sober and responsible and still be a Rockstar. Rock and Roll ISNT about drinking, drugging, having sex, or staying out all night... in fact, Rock and Roll is nothing more than an attitude. If you have the attitude, none of the other things matter. Just because you don't have any bad habits doesn't mean you aren't dangerous.
I thought rock n roll was about the music. They say the same thing about punk and grunge: it's an attitude. Then that means I can be a country-bluegrass band but have the right attitude then I'm rock n roll? ridiculous.
@@danebrackvitch4901couldn’t agree more. I like multiple genres… what kind of attitude do I need??
@@danebrackvitch4901 grunge is definetly more of an attitude than it is a genre. Just listen to 'Something in the way' and 'Floyd The Barber' two songs from the same band in the same genre, yet the songs shouldnt even be in the same genre.
Yeah it’s an attitude but those drinks and drugs are a lot of fun.. in the moment
We just can’t afford it. And I want to drink and do drugs if it’s my choice
@@danebrackvitch4901Johnny Cash, Waylon jennings, Hank Williams..
One of my work colleagues who's 63, said to me recently: "It's getting hard for me to go and see any of the bands of my era, because all the musicians of that age are reaching the end of their lives."
I'm 51, and my reply was: "You think you've got it tough? My era was grunge."
As darkly humourous as that might sound, it was a real exchange.
On a personal note, I was the lead singer of a "grunge" band back in the early/mid 90s. One of our roadies died in a drink driving incident in '95, our lead guitarist died from alcohol related health issues in '00, my wife died from progressive brain damage probably caused by class A use in '01, our manager died in '03 from class A related heart problems, and finally in '20 our drummer died from drug related health complications. In the case of my wife, our manager, and our drummer, they had all quit partying years before they died, but complications from their partying days compromised their health from then on.
The truth is, there certainly would've been a lot more rock'n'roll in my life without all of those deaths.
A tragic story. Thank you for sharing. Additional tragedy from Gen X... the number of shining lights from that era gone WAY before their time... Hillel Slovak, Chris Cornell, Layne, Kurt, ad nauseam...
I just saw the Goo Goo Dolls. The lead singer has been four years sober and quit smoking to preserve his voice. Sooner or later you have to grow up, I guess. The show was fantastic. Remember when Metallica was known as Alcohalica? Those guys are hitting 60.
Interesting commentary. I was just having a discussion with a friend who is a musician. I am a former dancer and back in the day I would be on tours where people were literally throwing drugs at me. Fortunately, that was not my weakness and I’ve endured and live a healthy life. However, for people that continue to live their lives the same way, very sad. You grow up and life changes, hopefully.
I am happy to see the vast improvements you seem to make with your life. You look amazing. Stay true to yourself and happy for your girl. Salute!
I think you’re forgetting that everyone in rock ‘n’ roll now *and* their fans have seen far, far too many of their idols lose or ruin their lives due to the “lifestyle”. None of us want to witness that “live fast, die young” attitude anymore. We want our idols to live long, happy, healthy, fulfilling lifestyles so that they can keep on rocking out until they’re 90! 🤘🥰💖
And so we have something decent to listen to in the care home!
@@ZuzuTheLemon 😂 Absolutely! 🤘🎸🥁🤘 Future care homes are going to be *lit*! 😂😂😂
(Side note: I work in residential care for disabled people. We have regular “dad rock” discos, Abba nights, 70’s, 80’s & 90’s nights, there’s disco balls and strobe lighting… honestly, sometimes it’s like walking into a rave! 😂 Staff and clients alike have an absolute blast! 🥰💖)
🦅🤓…💖
@@NinStardust that's awesome! 🦅🤓...❤️
@@NinStardust The idea that there will at least be "dad rock" discos in future care home gives me both hope & reassurance😁
💃🏻✨
@@NinStardustoh that’s one of the happiest things I’ve heard in a while! The outside changes a lot but so many people with their mental faculties intact still feel young and those nights must bring them so much joy! But if I got to that stage I hope they’d have a good mix or different genres. I’d be back in my room if they played Air Supply or Celine Dion when I’d want to hear Depeche Mode or the Cure😅.
Growing up in the 70s, the drug scene as a part of the whole rock and roll lifestyle for rock stars and fans alike. It was all about partying and having fun and most of us never saw the ugly side of it.
I think these days every single person has in some way experienced addiction first hand. Either they experienced it themselves, or saw a loved one go through it. There's nothing cool about addiction, and musicians on drugs aren't seen as "cool" any more, they are seen as addicts who need help.
Also, thats an interesting take on how music has flipped from revenue coming mostly from touring. I'd never considered that. I guess that explains why ticket prices are so high. When I was a teen in the late 70s, most tickets were around $7. Even at a minimum wage job. I could afford tickets for two hours of work. These days, the same ticket would be at least $100, which means at min. wage it would take about 15 hours of work. Ouch!
This is a random but mind-blowing fact: the average Taylor Swift resale ticket goes for about $3,800 🤔 🤷♂️
Well, since nobody under about 40 seems to think they have to pay the artist for their recorded output anymore, what else did you expect?!
@@aldercones What financial and societal meltdown?
$100 for which kind of tickets and bands?
Plenty of $10-70 tickets to see everything from underground to mainstream, $100 and up sounds more in the lines of VIP placement, stadium size or festival.
And when the prices go all crazy it’s pure scalping.
I believe in a Hawkins called Justin.
We worked hard for over a year in the rehearsal space to get our songs just right. Our first few shows impressed the crowds we played for. However our lead guitar player decided to get drunk for every other show and made us all look fools. In front of some industry too.
😔
You hired the dude.
One enormous factor that you didn't cover is accountability. The rise of social media and smartphones has meant celebrities behaving badly these days can have their actions uploaded to the web and gone viral before their hangover has even kicked in. And the consequences can end a career in a flash.
I agree with you, this was happening some time ago to Cara Delevingne, I hope she has stopped her self-abuse now.
You hit the nail on the head. It's exactly this. Bad behavior or even just accusations blow up and end careers.
I saw an interview with Slash a little while ago where he pointed this out. Shit that they got away with back in the day couldn't happen today.
Eh? I thought bad behaviour was the whole point! And all the better if it was heavily publicised. If not, then you're not doing it properly!
@@TrojanBusthe social landscape changed
I think one of the biggest examples (of my experience with rock and metal bands) is Slipknot, Their early days was filled with the typical rock and roll stories but now you have Corey Taylor speaking out about his turn around, they fired Joey at one point for his continuous self-abuse, they lost paul which was a real turning point for the band, and to my knowledge modern day Slipknot is an entirely different band compared to what the OGs may have considered "Rock and Roll lifestyle" - this is just my opinion based on 20 years of listening to slipknot but i think it holds some weight in this kind of conversation
I'm a touring cycling poet, and think touring is rock n roll without sex, drugs, and booze. It's an alternative bohemian lifestyle, the opposite of mainstream. As a lifestyle it's not an easy gig, it's exhausting uprooting, and lacking in security, but it's a labour of love and a choice! Troubadours are rock n roll! X
This was such a great video, Justin! I love your statement about AI not being able to replace live music. I personally love how there is a wave of sobriety in the music industry these days. As a recovering addict myself, I find it to be supportive and inclusive to see people go through what I've been through and come out the oher side AND still be creative and powerhouse musos, like yourself! It used to be a rarity to have sober musicians, now it's more the norm and I love it. I've joined the mailing list. Please, do bombard! I'm looking forward to the long-form podcast....Happy days, Justin!
Such a nice guy… inspirational, honest, straight forward… liking your content quite a lot and will stay tuned for more
Hedonism is a great way to spend a few years. But ultimately is going to pull your trousers down eventually, you just gotta hope it doesnt happen in public
Just dont do it to begin with. Nothing better than self discipline
It might be uncool, possibly even have elements of illegality, might even be unhealthy, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
*disclaimer and advice*
Stay in school kids. Don't do drugs, smell it before you taste it, pulling out isn't quitting, and always carry bail money.
This is why Guided By Voices is one of the all-time rock giants in my book - they know how (and when) to party hard. I saw them empty a large beach cooler full of beer and tequila (which they generously shared with the front row) and halfway through the set a roadie came out to remove said cooler, then REPLACED IT. But that wasn't their lives or even their personas; they just like to have fun, like every show is a party we were all invited to, then they go home to their teaching jobs and families and what have you. They lay it all out on the stage, and it remains on the stage. The missus and I met this band the Darkness once, too. They seemed pretty cool. They endanger themselves in Different ways, like scaling the bar balcony at the Paradise and scaring the staff.
Isn't the guy in this video from the band the darkness
It's wild how the rock n roll lifestyle has done a 180. Major labels kicking the bucket played a role - suddenly, artists are the captains of their own ships. Rock ain't dead; it just had a makeover. I just wish we could have another genuine rock movement like we had with Nirvana or The Beatles. Even in the early 2000's we had The Strokes, White Stripes etc. The most genuine contender for the next wave of good rock music for me is a band from New Zealand called The Doublejumps. I'd highly recommend checking them out. They're all about the DIY, which seems to me like the logical path forward in rock music today.
Lol the plugs are getting more creative! Go Doublejumps!
King Gizzard And The Lizard Wizard.
The Beatles?! They were pop, for sure not rock. Rolling Sones were rock
@@federicobattistetti3108 You're telling me the band that made helter skelter isn't rock?
Go see a doctor asap you might have something wrong with your temporal lobe.
Hilarious. A band that imitates how we grew up
This seems like the mass imitation era of all our Cultures ?
Also Literally playing dress up how we grew up ?
Really enjoyed this. It brought to mind the transformation of Axl Rose from tardy, volatile rocker to someone who now appears to treat his privileged position with the respectfulness it deserves ie showing up on time, gestures of warmth to bandmates and fans. Or, that might just come with growing old...
I think connectivity has killed rock and roll. Touring doesn't take you out of society and away from your loved ones they way it used to - If you misbehave, it's not slow gossip that spreads the news, it's instantly everywhere. And if you're lonely on tour, you don't tell the bottle and the groupies, you video call your friend at home.
all it does is kill people off way too soon. I mean just look at the 27 club. im 29 and it feels like im barely starting to figure stuff out. Justin and many others are lucky to have survived addictions before they slipped up and made a life costing mistake.
You highlighted something that I am not sure anyone has mentioned. The change from Albums bringing the money to bringing in not a lot, to Live shows now bringing in the money... this is one reason why ticket prices are now £100 a show from the £60 a show 5 years ago.
Just joined thanks for your time and effort really enjoy your chats
Back in the '80's I came up with the "Keith Richards Theory" which is that audiences want a proxy; someone who will do all the transgressive things they wish they could do but are too sensible to try. They are the culture's "Judas Goat," and we cheer them on so that we don't have to abuse our bodies and ruin lives. As a performer during the '80's I thought it was part of my job to act as this kind of proxy and it almost killed me.
In the same vein I've been watching Michael Crawford as Frank Spencer for catharsis, since I fail fail fail at fifty and female
Well, yeah. We live vicariously through them.
Seems right.
Yeah, that's always been the case. I'm not sure you created this theory as much as realised it too. It's an age old phenomenon which has been culturally inculcated. For performers themselves, there has always been the romanticized idea of the 'Tortured Genius' that has in almost all cases an inbuilt proclivity for substance abuse, and seen as a route to authenticity, if not necessity. Divergent thinkers have always found normality difficult, and will often self medicate, going back to shamanism, and the myth of Merlin.
@@M2Mil7er In simple terms, rock stars party hard.
Living through the 80's was a cool experience! I just wish I could remember more of it. Partying, loud music was our release from the daily grind. Then you get older and more mature in your thinking and you change. At least that's what I did. Congratulations on your sobriety!
'Ere Justin, speaking of your delightful ramblings and rock n roll stories, when's this book of yours coming out? ...Not that I'm one of of those unhinged people who start buying Xmas presents in August or anything.
To me Rock N Roll has always been about counter culture. And nowadays where even pop stars do the sex and drugs thing and often behave in stupid ways, Rock should be more than that. I think modern Rock should be rebellious by being intelligent, introspective and progressive cause these tropes are currently not celebrated in mainstream music.
I’d rather have my music heroes healthy, clean, sober, and respecting themselves. We’ve lost far too many brilliant artists far too soon.
Just signed up, can’t wait to hear it brother. Working on an album myself, following your career has been an inspiration and watching your stage performance smh amazing. You know how to control a crowd.
👏👏👏👏👏
This is one of my fav videos you’ve put out. Sobering truths in this one. It doesn’t make me happy to hear the state of the music industry right now but to hear it from someone who is at least seemingly on top of their shit (and I deeply adore) is immensely valuable. ❤
As a touring artist I’ve always made the green room/or blue or black lol a private area foe band members and team only. It’s easy to get caught up in the drugs and woman but the reason that you became an artist, if that was music then the music suffers and if you got into music for drugs and alcohol and women then again the music suffers. It’s an honor and a privilege to be able to share your art with the world, and someday we
Will be weighed and measured under a microscope, why give them anything to write about when it’s your story? Create the world you want to live in and be viewed in.
Your hair is on point today Justin. 👌
Rock'n'Roll (sort of like being a biker) is a state of mind and you don't need to be out of your skull or crawling with STIs to live it. The audience deserves the best show they can have and for most of us* that means being sober until at least after the show (* theatre, in my case).
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head with the well articulated 'album supports the tour' analogy.
Big love ❤️❤️❤️❤️ thanks for mentioning us!
A friend of mine quite a few years ago worked in local radio, she was excited on this day because they had Keith Richards coming in as expected, he came rolling in looking rather drunk as he staggered around the room, and staggered to his chair, flipped open his Jack Daniel‘s, and took a big swallow did the interview all went brilliant then he stood up, staggered out of the room, she realised he had left his bottle and couldn’t resist a drink. The bottle was full of cold tea. she looked out of the window when she looked out the window, she saw him walking away, straight and sober. It was all an act.
I saw Eddie Van Halen slam what was purported to be a fifth of Jack Daniels on stage in '81. Then continued to play like... Eddie Van Halen. At sixteen I had just enough experience with Mr. Jack to detect there was some 'musical theater' afoot... it's all good until your young fans attempt this at home & can't be resuscitated 🤷
@@bobpurcell7175 Either that or his alcohol tolerance and cocaine intake were enough to stave off problems until later. I've known a lot of people who drink-and-snort their way into having active blackouts, where they're still going on autopilot for hours but don't remember a damn thing about it later. If you've got 'handlers' taking care of you, it's a lot easier to go ahead and do that without, you know, getting in a car accident or something. But I didn't drink off his bottle, so it totally could have been Lipton.
@@jamescarter3196 I can't prove a thing, but if that was bottle was full of Jack, I've never seen a guitarist soldier through anywhere near that much alcohol with NO apparent effect on his playing... though it's been awhile and I was a bit 🤪 myself that night.
The older one gets, self preservation becomes more of a priority...
As someone who has never liked drinking, never touched drugs, part of what kept me from going into music back in the day was to avoid the excesses of R&Roll. I actually had youthful dreams of being a Rock star, but it wasn't to be rich or popular, it was just to avoid riding a desk or some other crap job and living paycheck to paycheck.
Lol, yeah of course it was, and definitely not a lack of talent...
@@mymodel6😂😂
@@mymodel6 I'm an ok singer, not near as good as Justin, but I have had much praise heaped upon me for lyrics, that was my real specialty. Oh but wait, your comment was intended to denigrate a stranger, wasn't it? Sorry, should I pretend to be offended so your inner-troll can dance with glee or something? What bother. I'll opt out, tyvm.
@@R.senals_Arsenal No, my comment was intended to highlight the blatant narcissistic grandiosity of your post...
@@mymodel6 No, you were being snarky for sh!tz & giggles.
How is admitting to having had dreams that you didn't pursue in any way grandiose? How that enters, or even comes in any way close, to the realm of narcissism is beyond me. If anything it's self deprecating, not aggrandizement.
I always love it when you rock the Brandon Boyd look
Touring the US in an indie band in the 90s, I saw some crazy stuff, as one might imagine. My favorite drink ticket extremes were: A bar in Wichita which told me we could "drink until we think you've had enough" and a bar in NYC that gave us just one drink ticket... for the whole band!
The other issue with touring nationally was that we always needed to know when last call was relative to our stage time because if you played early, you might not be tipsy enough to overcome jitters, but if you played later (say in NYC or another big city with all-night bars), you might be too drunk to play well. It was always a balancing act. Good times, though...
Dear sir
I just wanted to say I've been watching your videos for a while now and wanted to say thank you.
I have enjoyed your content way more than I expected and look forward to the newest uploads.
Congratulations on your sobriety and success.
Sincerely, Hooligan
It was always kinda offputting to me, esp how many rockstars from the 70s and 80s molested 14 year olds
Isn't Steven Tyler dealing with a Statutory Story right now?
JAMES
And we now have the likes of MGK who somehow still thinks that part of rock n roll was to be admired!! And I’m suprised that there wasn’t more people pulled him up on it.
14 year olds and even YOUNGER girls became part of their "entourage". It's insane. It was weird back then, but people just wrote it off as part of the "lifestyle". If any ordinary person had done the same there would have been backlash, but not as severe as today of course. I think it's gross. I know my parents, who were in the scene back then but a little older (in the beginning of their 20's) also thought it was really fucking gross, since they both worked with children and teenagers who's been molested. So they always saw black if an artist they loved did shit like that. They just stopped buying their records and going to their concerts. More people should have realized that fucking 13-14 year olds is *not* normal, no matter what, but even more so in a "relationship" where one have *SO* much power over the kid as their literal idol would have.
@@tessiepinkman sad, disgusting, and abusive. It was all about power over an individual and what they could get away with. Pedophile grooming.
@@tessiepinkman I think it was considered a grey area at the time. On the one hand, there were cases of clergy and others who abused minors they had access to and they were rightfully condemned.
The perceived difference when it came to rock stars was that it was the minors who were actively doing the pursuing, blowing bouncers to get backstage etc. and then offering themselves on a plate to the rock stars.
Plus I think there was a sort of consensus at the time that people just expected every kind of excess and illegal activity when it came to rock stars. It was almost encouraged.
I remember in the 1980's reading in newspapers about Bill Wyman from the Rolling Stones and his then girlfriend Mandy Smith. They first got together when he was 47 and she was 13.
The tone of the articles was that it was certainly weird but, having said that, he wasn't arrested or anything.
I love your aspect on these different subjects Justin, it's always very interesting to listen to you talk and give your opinion on the mattez 😅 🤘
for me rocknroll means making music from your heart, having fun or channeling and transforming your inner demons and struggles, making and playing music that feeds your spirit... honest music. So, any genre can be pretty rocknroll... gospel, salsa, you name it, it's more about the approach
When asked why you don't drink/ want a drink, there's a really good response I heard ( because everyone doesn't necessarily want to say "because I'm an alcoholic". That's private). Just say " most people drink in order to be more outgoing or relaxed, but I'm like that naturally. Plus, it's not good for my health". I thought that that was a great response.
Almost 500K subs… you had a good run man. Wishing you all the best in the future!
I think it's a symptom of increased sobriety in society as a whole. I think the younger generation think alcohol is kind of uncool. It puts you out of control - things get broken people get broken. We are long gone from the days when alcohol was the only anesthetic to hand or whatever. I still drink but a lot less and very rarely. I'm from a family where alcohol is a kind of way of life, such as my uncle being a veteran of the old wet navy that got its rum ration. Even so, all of us have cut down to some degree.
And I wonder if immigration has impacted this 😞 x
@@ladylove3636in what way?
I think not drinking is truly rock n roll, having the nerve and ability to do that in this crazy world is deeply impressive...
This is why rock is dead lmao. No fun. Just a bunch of oldheads talking about sobriety
I lived in LA for a couple of years when I was 19 or so. It was 1978. I went out there with the band I was in. Musically and socially, we were on the periphery of some rock stars. l noticed that other bands were either straight edge, or just total fuck-ups. There weren't that many in the middle. I eventually got(even more)into drugs like everybody else, the only legal one being alcohol. I'm surprised I'm still alive. I partied SO hard. I'm glad it's cleaning up, but I remember those days fondly.
the point of the album-tour correlation is SO SPOT ON
The band Cake covers this topic in this song Rock and Roll lifestyle:
"Excess ain't rebellion
You're drinkin' what they're selling now
Your self-destruction doesn't hurt them
Your chaos won't convert them
They're so happy to rebuild it
You'll never really kill it"
I think there are two main reasons:
1.) the obvious: social media. young people simply can't get away with the kind of rock star behavior (for better or worse) that was prevalent in the 70s and 80s (or for that matter, 90s/early 2000s). Your reputation will immediately be squashed and your local scene will have you cancelled before you even break out big.
2.) The peak of "rock star" behavior (ie: sex/drugs/groupies/etc) was only 20-30 years after rock music took shape in the mid 50s. It was still a young genre, as were most of the musicians and fans. With each passing decade, the target audience of rock music ages along with it. In 2023, listening to rock music would be the equivalent of listening to bluegrass, polka or dixieland jazz in the 70s or 80s. It's old people music. Even bands from the 90s (who are still popular.) are now in their mid 50s. The minds and bodies of middle aged men and women are simply not designed to handle copious amounts of casual sex , drugs and alcohol by that age, and the young people who can are more interested in bands that their parents aren't trying to shove down their throat (something that honestly makes me cringe. I find it super ridiculous when I see parents who listened to punk try to dress up their children like little punk rockers for example.)
I just finished listening to Leon Russell and Joe Cocker. It was very exquisite music inside the belly of a Rock and Roll live concert.Thankfully the videos live on and so does the music. I think you are correct that rock is an esthetic, a belief system of sorts and being sober doesn't diminish that at all. We have lost too many great musicians to the "myth" of a falsely negatively romanticized genre of music, that Rock had to be about wantoness, when in fact it is descended from Blues and Gospel .
You definitely want to see a great show- some older bands could probably handle partying and playing better than others, but also the whole vibe of concerts have changed. The audience isn't getting so wasted either, so it would be odd if the band was more wasted than the average fan.
I have seen the Darkness a bunch of times, and they always kill it live, so whatever they're up to is working for them. They most certainly rock!
With the prices Ticketmaster is charging nowadays they'd better be sober IMHO.
JAMES
I love getting your take on things Justin - always well thought out, well articulated and honest. I'm glad you and Jenny will be doing another podcast soon - love those!
Rush is one of my favorite bands. They stayed clear of excessive partying and nonsense. It got old watching rock stars get more weird as time went on. It was painful and obvious watching Kirk Cobain and Chester Bennington and others spiral downward and looking miserable. No one steps up to intervene. Hip Hop has lost so many artists because they went the heroin and various drugs route. It's a death sentence.
I honestly can’t think of even one hip hop artist that has died from heroin. Also, Chester Bennington didn’t die from anything even remotely related to substance abuse.
@@Junkhead91You're right that Chester Bennington didn't die from substance abuse, but I believe the substance abuse he experienced over the years was one of the things that lead him down a dark path, as well as past tramas.
Hip hop artists that have died over the last few years from drug overdose include Coolio, Mac Miller, Lil Peep, Juice World - from fentanyl, cocaine, heroin, prescription drugs, alcohol.
@@pureamoursoul yeah they all died of accidental fentanyl overdoses. Nothing to do with cocaine or heroin. Chester offed himself after one of his best friends and mentors (Chris Cornell) killed himself. Literally nothing to do with drugs of any kind.
@@pureamoursoul Thank you. Know-it-all's drive me crazy. I said Heroin and various drugs plus opioids is a form of heroin. My whole point was we have lost numerous artists to drugs and alcohol related deaths. Drug use leads to depression. Even though a person can become clean, the brain chemistry changes them permanently. Thanks for clarification. I don't even respond to many posts anymore because there is always someone who wants to argue or disagree even when proof is right at their finger tips.
Alex lifeson was a functional alcoholic until 1992 and they smoked more weed than Snoop Dogg.
"Sex and Drugs" was never a cliche for "Rock n' roll" artists only.
It was and it is a cliche for "stars", comng from music, theatre TV or Cinema.
Do they all do that?
Of course not, but if you think about people with a lot of free time, groupies and money to get that lfestyle, they could ad sometimes did.
Is it "over"?
No, but people working in "rock and roll" can't afford it anymore.
Such an acute analysis of the shift in the industry brought about by tech/talent proliferation/covid. Fascinating to see how even the touring environment is catching up with other workplaces.
The gigging rock star seems now to be (by and large) more socially responsible than the politicians!!! 🤣
You look great today 💛
Hi Justin. This'll probably get buried, but on the off chance that you do read this, I just want to say thank you.
I've been off drinking and smoking for 5 months and counting at the time of writing this, and I just want to say that speaking about your experience and watching your sobriety continue has helped me motivate myself to stay sober, and many, many others too. You've also added to my deep love for music and drive to create.
Keep it up. And again, thank you.
Justin Fucking Hawkins Rides Againnnnn!!! 🎶🎶🎶
🎵 Aaaaaagainnnnn….🎶🎶🎶 🥰
Paying your dues, doesn’t seem to happen anymore. At one point, almost every rock/metal and many pop bands would tour and gig, night after night and live from hand to mouth, creating bonds that can’t be broken sometimes. The internet seems to have killed that foundation building, plus the infrastructure just isn’t there anymore, the small venues, pubs, clubs and small concert venues have all but disappeared. It was a different time I know, but somehow more visceral, raw and in your face. Great video, pal🤘🏼🤘🏼
You can have your “rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle.” I never made any good decisions when I was on alcohol/drugs.
if I were a rock star I would be dead, proberbly good job I'm just a welder.
There you go, my dude, consider us signed up
Changing times for everyone. I was one who drank and did crazy things but as I look back. It was a great time and experience that I had to stop because of my health. I feel somewhat better now that I don't party like that anymore but I miss playing out. I'm still play guitar everyday and I'm so much better now than ever since I've stopped the madness and got focused on music.
Thank you so much for your time.
Can you do an episode explaining how musicians get paid on tour? Per gig? Per Week? Per tour etc...
Hey Justin I subscribed to your channel about a month ago and am pleasantly surprised. Your so articulate and good at explaining in layman's terms. Keep it up your a great podcast and such a nice guy even when reading nasty comments finding some good in them. Justin for P.M.🎉
Coming from a 68 year old musician, yeah, I used to party like a mad idiot. But that was when I could 35 years ago. Touring with Killer Bee in the 90's, we were known as a hard drinking party band. These days though, nope. Just can't do it anymore and still perform at a pro level.
As a 57 year old rock fan: I for one am glad it's only about the music now.
I remember the daze when clubbing was filled with needless fighting, people puking all over the dance floor (who wants to headbang in the middle of that?)
And then, as a woman, it was assumed that if you were in attendance it meant you were available for anything (and I mean ANYTHING!) regardless of whether you were just there to see a band the way the guys were.
Most of this eventually turned me off from going to see rock shows, but now I'm happy to see a more clear-headed "we're all here to rock out and have a good time, so let's do that" sort of a vibe.
Bands can write songs and talk about whatever they want, but let's ALL have a good time, and BE AROUND for the good times, eh?
I need Justin to start narrating audiobooks.
I honestly can't imagine wanting to get shitfaced drunk while on the road. The idea of driving or walking through airports and flying with a hangover is just not appealing.
Having flown with a hangover I can tell you that the reality is even less pleasant than the idea.
@@aaronleverton4221 Ugh. I don't envy you, my friend. I hope that it wasn't a long flight at least, and that you got to sleep through the majority of it.
@@TheSeanCreagh It was remarkably short, just across Bass Strait, but that meant the ascent and descent were far closer together, compounding the effect. Also the plane was much smaller, so it bounced around, further compounding the effect. The stewardess took enough pity on me to commiserate by describing ferrying green-faced Schoolies home from Queensland.
You're young, but not in the stupid bracket, you have the pretty' lady's near-sole attention and it's because you were stupid last night and are in no condition to impress her with your charm this morning. An entirely self-inflicted injury.
That's why your not a fucking rockstar init dude lol😂
Not to mention cell phone cameras, and the Internet… Who wants their worst moments captured online for all eternity…
Amy Winehouse shocked me, I couldn't understand why she had no minder. I was 9000miles away from her in Aus, and I could see she was at risk, everyone new she was at risk, why no minder? All she needed was someone to put her on her side in coma position when she passed out. If the rock n roll lifestyle is dead I'm glad of it. So many talented people gone. There is a big difference between having fun and having a mental illness that you are propping up with booze and other consumables.
I thought she did have a minder. Worth watching the documentary again.
If you dig deep enough, there's industry whistleblowers out there that tell disturbing accounts of how the industry itself encourages the drug/alcohol abuse of its minions. They only care about the money, and a dead celebrity is a lucrative one.
She said 'no' 😏
What exactly do you mean by a "minder"?
She had people who tried to intervene and, equally, she had people who were happy to enable her addictions so they could leech off of her.
Ultimately, she was an adult so she had free will over her choices and, sadly, she didn't always make the best choices.
I meant someone hanging around looking out for her, like a nanny for grown ups. An English expression sorry.
The showman element of rock n roll will never die but I’m glad the negative harm people used to do to themselves it’s more about being on top of your game and that cane be done addicted to a substance be it alcohol or drugs,
Keep the positive vibes 🎸⚡️🙏
I think one big factor is that there are fewer NEW big acts in general. The older acts are still going, but only if they have learned to stay sober enough. That gives the few never acts better example on how to maintain a career. On rap side, there are new stars, but they are still dropping like flys as casualties of the lifestyle.
I’m sure the debauchery will return; but the behaviours of bands/artists certainly inform my engagement with their music. E.g., if they exhibit toxic masculinity, racism, ageism = I’m not interested in them or their ‘product’.
There are very few real 'rock stars' in the younger bands anymore so I'm not sure the lifestyle debate is still pertinent?
Back in 2013 while recording in Vancouver, I later found out our producer had previously vetted us with our label A&R to ensure there weren’t any substance abuse issues in the band before agreeing to produce. Later while recording, he was teasing us in front of Bob Ezrin, who was mixing the album, over no drugs and no women around the studio. Bob immediately took up for us saying ‘I get it. Back in my day drugs were clean and fucking couldn’t kill you’. I’ve heard things for Canadian artists have improved around acceptance of sobriety but I took so much flack anytime I would turn down alcohol while touring.
Wow, Bob is cool as fuck. He's been around enough 'precise' people to know what it requires to accomplish intense work.
I think one huge difference in the entertainment industry in general, is that the internet opened the gates in terms of people making content. This has led to the rise of entrepreneur artists... the most successful of which built podcasts, or youtube channels, or harnessed social media to reach an audience. Live is still crucial for the money side of the industry, but it isn't the place of discovery anymore. Meaning in recent years, most new big artists use the internet to get an audience- then take a live show through the areas with supporters. I believe that in the case of newer most music artists , record labels function like investment banks. The artist entrepreneur builds a business, then a label can offer all sorts of services and capital to help grow that business. I think the above situation makes it so that musicians have their act together.
I'm not in a band, but I can tell you that from my first job and as a Forensic Scientist, I spent my lunch times and evenings after work, in the pub in complete ignorance of the consequences it would have on my health later on in life. I became an alcoholic giving me cirrhosis of the liver, I became overweight and the issues then caused gout and late onset diabetes. I haven't drunk since 1996 and my liver is fully recovered. But I'm still a recovering alcoholic, I still have diabetes, gout damage to my joints and diabetes caused diabetic neuropathy from the waist down. Knowing how I am know, in hindsight, I wish I never drank so much. But a career in Forensic Science isn't easy and fellow employees joined in keeping each other company. Now I have had to retire early for health reasons.
How could you be a forensic scientist and not see that coming?
@@frankenfurter58 because stress of the job overtakes everything else. You see scenes of crime, autopsies, murders, rapes etc and a nice drink after work helps you relieve the stress and the days horrific sights, and again I WAS AN ALCOHOLIC!
@@AdamForeman I guess we all have our excuses. I've worked in palliative care for two decades and carry the burden of those death experiences daily, but I'd never dream of self-harm to cope with stress. What good are we to ourselves or others in a stupored state? Food for thought.
@@MarilynKely-nf9wx the number of doctors, surgeons, police officers, firemen etc that drink, smoke and take prescription drugs daily is well known. I'm just one of them that is willing to come forward and admit my problem. In the background, GP's telling you to stop drinking, smoking etc are doing the exact same thing due to stress. I suggest people understand that people are human beings and are affected by their dedication to their jobs that most people couldn't do.
@@MarilynKely-nf9wx, Read the last four words he wrote, again.
I am very grateful that you talk about this in an open and honest way. Nice one.
Remarkably little mention of the role promotors and managers play in making sure touring bands behave. There are a lot of people with a lot of money at stake in a tour these days. They can't afford the risk of having a bunch of sloppy drunks take the stage and put on a crappy show in front of everyone and their iPhones.
I think the big factors are - social media (constantly being watched, fear of being exposed, / career ruined)
- Your own personal health, we are much more aware of mental health issues.
- There’s less money going around to blow on crazy party life styles.
- Distractions like Netflix etc, intro to on-demand everything! you can busy yourself in all kinds of other ways to kill boredom. Which is a relatively new, you couldn’t back then, you partied until the bus arrived, at the hotel, before a gig, after the gig….besides reading a book, watching the same dvds, playing the same games.
The immediacy of social media increases the potential for liability... or at least profound embarrassment.
As someone who's been in (or proximate to) the music industry for decades, all while being sober as a monk (I guess it started as being straight-edge which led to... being straight-edge), I'm beyond relieved that the "lifestyle" has let up. I've observed more than my fair share of "rock star-ing." Everyone seems to be having fun. And then they're not. And it happens fast.
I've seen boozy bands with members falling about and barely able to play, and the crowd roars in approval. Depressing. I've been backstage when a singer was thrown into a freezing shower fully clothed and slapped until he came to and vomited all over himself. I've looked next to me on a couch and had a band member passed out with a needle in his arm.
The mythology around all of this has always baffled me. If you're the square in the room, it looks like live-action suicide. When all the "having fun" people leave for the night, you don't wanna be there. If a problem still exists in the industry, it's that all the people making money off an artist tend to turn the other cheek for far, far too long.
Or to paraphrase: When is Matt Healy a lovable, witty scamp, and when does he become a nasty, vicious drunk who needs to be yanked out of service for his own safety.? I bet we'll know when the balance sheet goes upside-down.
The "Rock n Roll Lifestyle" has taken way too many of our favorite artists and their fans alike before their time. I have seen shows (luckily it was only a handful, going back to the excesses of 80's hair bands) over the years where someone enbibed a bit too much and it was a disappointment because they could not perform, forgot words, etc. If it's over, then it may be a good thing for those on both sides of the stage.
Justin, I’m loving the longer hair! 🩷
you don't have to be a rocker to live the rock n roll life. currently rappers are doing it
Sex drugs and "rock n roll" never dies, it just morphs into whatever is hot at the time but the general attitude never goes away
Alcohol doesn't definitely make you a better player. I think it's great that it's going out of fashion and you can see why, the bar has been raised massively. The bands from the 70's were great but music is always evolving and we should embrace it like that. There are monstrous players nowadays that anyone couldn't imagine back then.