If I were to guess he starts off as a neutral good or even just neutral character but as the movie goes on he delves further into Chaotic Neutral, possibly on the cusp of Chaotic Evil like the Joker's typical alignment.
what’s scary is even during the Murray show scene there’s still a small sliver of humanity left in Arthur because he genuinely felt the people he killed deserved it and tried to justify his actions while joker from the comics once literally killed a whole studio audience just for fun. It’s not until he paints the blood smile on his face that Arthur completely “dies”and there’s only joker left.
7:30 A misfire is when the firearm fails to shoot when it's asked to. What happened here is called a negligent discharge and is a sure fire way of getting yourself banned from the range
14:15 The simple answer is that it’s not. The movie is highly critical of the media and its effect on society. In turn, the media tried to spin it to be something it’s not by using some snarl words. This happens frequently these days, to the point where terms like “alt-right” and “socialism” have lost meaning in the lexicon.
I still fucking love how much they were mistaken. They kept fucking screaming shit like "This will create more terrorist and school shooters and bla bla bla!" and all that really came out of it was a bunch of people dancing on some steps for a little while and a pretty good movie that a lot of people enjoyed. The media are so busy trying to shift the blame on anything and everything other than themself despite the fact it is proven that them featuring school shooters and the like is one of the reasons there are so many copy cats. They make these phychotic broken people famous so obviously other broken people gets inspired by it. Fuck the media. Stop trying to blame violence on videogames, movies and everything else and fucking start taking some resposiblity or shut the absolute fuck up!
@@makaramuss I'm going to do this. I'm going to regret this aren't I Edit: I regret this... Anymore recommendations??? edit 2: like seriously any other recommendations?
I actually want to point out the final speech the joker says it's sort of a reinterpretation of a line from a Roman politician Tullius Cicero where Cicero says "What society does to our children so too will our children due to society."
Hold up, Arthur should *absolutely* start off as Neutral Good, as he IS actively attempting to help others in his own way; specifically in attempting to make the child on the bus laugh.
I mean regardless his actions in this movie are very chaotic neutral and chaotic evil and by the end of it I'd say chaotic evil is a very suiting alignment for him. The man killing ppl and laughs about it and enjoys the chaos his brought. If that ain't chaotic evil idk what is.
Yeah, I'd definitely say that this could be either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil; Neutral if he did it to prevent the guy from alerting authorities, Chaotic if he did it just because he wanted to.
I get that this is a year old but if it's to prevent them from alerting the authorities (like they have any right to when THEY were the ones who started the whole mess in the first place by BREAKING THE LAWS those very same authorities put in place to defend) then HOW THE FUCK is that evil? More like self defense or just neutral in my book
The irony is that before the movie came out people thought it would be an alt-right incel reallying cry, but it was actually pro socialized health care, pro gun control, mental illness as real illness, and anti rich people.
Yeah. Everyone interprets art differently depending on their already conceived opinions/ideas, but for me, the movie comes out as quite left-leaning. Class conflict was a major theme of the movie
I have to honestly blame the whole “gamers rise up” meme tbh. People just thought this would be a meme film and mocked it before it came out, but then it turned out to be a great film that funny enough, really did show the horrors of society genuinely
pro-gun control? where did you interept that? He got the gun illegally, and in fact used it to actually defend himself (before then actually committing murder).
@@dominusbalial835 it may not have been intended, but that's how I interpreted it. He was clearly mentally unstable and shouldn't have been given a gun, and wouldn't have murdered those guys without it. I assumed they weren't supposed to deserve being murdered, even if they were jerks. He also accidentally fires it, showing again that he just shouldn't have it. It may have been acquired illegally, but it didn't get taken away when his boss found out he had it and it must have been easy for his coworker to buy it with the intent of giving it away.
@@gauracappelletti3893 Well first off thats the issues that arise from aquiring a gun illegally. any systems in place by the law aren't in pratice. and it isn't the laws fault that he was able to aquire it. Additonally his boss had no way of knowing if the gun was legal or not, and why would try to remove someones property? it's not his responsbility to regulate his employees firearms it's his job to send out clowns. Those guys did deserve to be killed in self efence but like I said before chasing them down after they fled and murdering them was wrong. That's no longer self defence, that is murder. Also I don't know if gun ownership is legal in gotham but i'm going off the assumption it is because it's based off the us city new york.
9:34 you called Arthur’s telling them about the gun and breaking the shift marking machine chaotic evil, but both the video and the ding chart showed chaotic neutral
Main character having a mental break down makes me kind of think of Steven Universe's arc in Steven Universe Future, Well I think focusing on Steven' actions in Future would make a shorter video there is what like five seasons of Steven Universes and a movie before that. I can see Steven's Alignment shifting around through the series, maybe starting as Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neural, and becoming more Neural Good and True Neural as the main series end and the movie happens and by the end of Future become Where ever he stands.
To be fair, this film is not about a full fledge Joker. It's about a decent man constantly being abused and dismissed by society, despite all his best efforts to fit in and his desperate pleas for help, so it did make sense to analyse him like this video did, instead of sticking a Chaotic Evil label on his forehead from the start.
I'll be honest, it took me till now to recognize everyone in that alignment wheel. I got everyone except neutral evil and chaotic neutral. Now i recognize Sephiroth and Lina Inverse respectively. Good to see someone else who remembers Slayers
I want to know where Big Boss from the Metal Gear series would land on the alignment character. His actions would need to be taken from the 2nd metal gear game as the first Big Boss was actually just a body double, MGS 3, MGS 4 (ending), MGS Peace Walker, MGS Portable Ops and then some parts from MGS V as the story is actually about his body double not him, but he does have a few lines of dialogue and plays a role at the start.
@@commissarfoster8721 Current canon overrules previous when it comes to the Metal Gear franchise. Except for Metal Gear Survive......that doesn't exist.
@@zeratul____1228 isnt that what i just said they retconed MG1 so MGSV ending is cannon. Also i dont of this metal gear survive you speak off never heard of it
Playing devil's advocate for both sides is not something to be ashamed of it is the hallmark of a rational and reasonable person. One who is open to the idea they may be ignorant, and seeks truth above and beyond their own bias and personal tastes.
Alignment chart icons: Lawful Good - Captain America (who else would it be?) Neutral Good - Sora Chaotic Good - Ash (Why? I don't see Ash really being out for himself all that much. He's very much a team player and doesn't go outside the laws of his society. Not really seeing this one.) Lawful Neutral - Judge Dredd True Neutral - Haku Chaotic Neutral - Lina Inverse Lawful Evil - Darth Vader Neutral Evil - Sephiroth Chaotic Evil - The Joker.
👏👏👏 I applaud you, you finally covered my favorite character of all time I don’t care what version it was you covered my favorite villain of all time, keep up the good work and I will no longer suggest anymore characters because mine has finally been mentioned, Also not surprised he was pure evil.
I really like your videos, and your presentation is excellent, but I feel like one big thing it lacks is a scale for how much something impacts a character’s alignment. As it stands now, every action changes the alignment by an equal portion, despite the fact a lot of the actions have varying levels of extremity. For example, I don’t think it makes much sense that imagining yourself kissing the neighbor girl is quite as Chaotic Evil as becoming the figurehead of a mass riot that causes countless deaths. I hope you consider this if you see this, thanks!
So, if I understand it correctly the pictures are: Lawful Good - Captain America (Marvel Universe) Neutral Good - Sora (main character from Kingdom Hearts game series) Chaotic Good - Ash Ketchum (from Pokemon series) Lawful Neutral - Judge Dredd (from, erm, Judge Dredd) True Neutral - Haku (from Naruto anime series) Chaotic Neutral - Lina Inverse (the main heroine from Slayers anime series) Lawful Evil - Darth Vader (Star Wars) Neutral Evil - Sephiroth (the main antagonist of Final Fantasy VII) Chaotic Evil - Joker (from Batman series), as revealed in this video
The thing about the political crap surrounding Joker is that people had confirmation bias. The movie /has/ no political slant aside from pointing out that we REALLY need to think more carefully about how we treat the mentally ill and others in general. It's effectively an arthouse film in a comic book suit and...honestly, that's really all there is to it. It's a good film but because of the political landscape of the time, a lot of people wanted to have their alignment pandered to whether that be left or right.
The idea that mentally ill people are a violent, dangerous threat - whether it's due to society's abuse or not - is a political idea, and a dangerously conservative one. By turning victims into weapons, it only furthers dehumanization and does NOTHING to get us the help we often need. It's a BS take, when study after study shows that the mentally ill are not more violent than others and far more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators. You know what aligns to violent outbursts? Entitlement. Based on gender. Based on race. Based on the idea of 'not getting what you deserve'. That toxic mentality finds a narrow subset of people who feel promised and challenged to present the Big Man Life, and the outcome is violence - from domestic abuse to outright murder. Mental health issues are secondary, but easier to acknowledge. It's a way to make it 'not our problem' because 'they're all just crazy'. It's a cowardly cop-out.
@@SJPaladinHawk Frankly nobody is entitled to ANYTHING. We are all hyper-advanced apes who ALL do not matter in the grand scheme of things duking it out for total control of some random rock in the back end of space. We all strive to better ourselves and we build on the achievements, good or bad, of our ancestors. We should strive to pull each other out of the muck regardless of politics, race, gender, religion, orientation, or what model of freaking car we drive. Only when an entire species can pull together will it truly be strong and humanity is no exception. But for some reason, people on the fringes are just insane zealots who refuse to listen to reason.
I don't share that view, necessarily. Unity is a utilitarian view, and the problem with utility logic is that it absolves us of failing minorities. As long as we're meeting in the middle, we just shrug at the margins. And those margins tend to have faces - faces that don't resemble the median. I will fight for my entire life against conservative ideas that hurt the margins more, but I got no time nor patience for 'both sides' talk. The 'crazy left' doesn't have the cash, influence, or history to back up the comparison, and the 'bad left' people most often talk about are barely less conservative than their opponents. It's a mess. The problem with the Golden Mean Fallacy is that the middle isn't good enough for all of us. Maybe not good enough for any of us, anymore.
@@SJPaladinHawk And yet going with either fringe causes the other side to become oppressed. Tell me, which is a better option: A.) Neither side truly gets what they want but everyone gets enough to be relatively content or B.) One side gets everything they wish, all their desires fulfilled as the rest of the people are villanized, pushed into the background and mocked?
...I just like how for the first third of the movie he was dancing around neutral, the second third was him heading clearly to chaotic neutral, for the third act does some evil acts though is not enough to stop him being neutral, and it is only for the last few acts of the movie does he cement himself as actually being chaotic evil. IE the perfect path for an origin story of a character towards an obviously fitting alignment XD...
Stuart, finishing his introductory summary of Joker: “Aaand that’s it!” **IMMEDIATE CUT TO AD** It’s just coincidence but it was a really funny one imo. The ad literally just popped up as soon as you finished saying “that’s it.”
Posting while watching beginning, but I think it should be noted his continued work and such for himself and his mother, I feel like he should've had a trend towards lawful at the beginning, though not enough to put him in the category.
The thing about mental illness is that while it never excuses someone’s actions, it can help explain them. I do think that there are genuinely cases where people break down and lose control over themselves and in those cases, it’s easier to be sympathetic because you know it was an accident. But it never erases what happened. I see that a lot in this video. A lot of the things Arthur does happens because he is breaking. He has these moments where he loses control and does evil things. But what I thing really makes Joker evil is that along the way, he stops caring. He hurts people consciously and with the intent to do so. It’s not just because he lost control or broke down, it’s because he genuinely wants to see people break.
Two problems: with Arthur being Chaotic Evil 1: Sanity has no bearing on alignment. Based on this movie alone the Joker cannot be Chaotic Evil. Nothing he does is particularly evil. Look at your main points: a) Killing the third banker, b) Killing his mother, c) Killing the comedian that gave him the gun, d) Killing Murray. A) While killing the third banker could be considered an overtly evil act, it is more likely that this is an instance of overkill ala PTSD. Because of his laughing condition he was just being beaten nearly to death by these men ,who were btw harassing a young woman (a scene which clearly puts her in danger of sexual assault). He is dangerously low on his medicine (which you rightly showed was a major discomfort for him). He is fired from his job. He just shot two of the bankers and he is enraged and shoots the third while chasing him a short distance. This is not GOOD by any means but is it evil? or neutral crazy? B) While killing his mother is again not GOOD. There are so many factors which go into this decision it would be almost impossible to call this particular act evil. First, we just learned that this woman is not his mother, and not only that but we learn that she has lied to him about every aspect of his life, and not only that but she is responsible with everything that is wrong with him because everything bad that happened to him during his youth is her fault. What her murder shows is that he is unable to kill himself. He wants so badly to die but he is too weak to do himself in, and so he lashes out at the one person who is truly the cause of his misfortune. C) Killing the other comedian is perhaps a truly evil act, but again circumstances can call this into question. Our lead has been broken down to his basest instincts. He has decided to end his own life in a spectacular way. This other comedian has wronged him by giving him the gun and then refusing to tell the truth about giving it to him. this causes Arthur hardship (hardship which is basically his own fault but it is easy for Arthur's damaged mind to blame the other man for his misfortune). And again the fact that he lets the midget go even though he saw Arthur kill is a footnote for his psychosis. If he was truly evil killing the dwarf would have been a foregone conclusion. D) Killing Murray was a spur of the moment decision. This is again not a premeditated crime. Arthur's true intent here was to kill himself. It is a spur of the moment choice to turn the gun on Murray instead of himself. You misread all of the scenes leading to this one. the Joker is not born as he walks down the stairs because he still intends on killing himself. Murdering Murray harkens to all of the killings after the three bankers. Arthur only kills people who he looks up to and have also wronged him. He does not flee the scene. He waits for the authorities and is arrested. He does not attempt to escape but is saved by the mob. 2: This is not your grandfather's Joker. though the movie takes inspiration from many of the Joker stories of old, Arthur Fleck is not any version of the Joker you have seen before. All other versions of the Joker are extremely intelligent, though their particular expertise is rarely the same. The Joker has always been portrayed as a savant of some kind. Arthur is not extremely intelligent. While an argument that most other versions of the Joker are Chaotic Evil, Arthur Fleck is not. Arthur is simply a highly psychologically damaged person who has lost not only his treatment and his meds, but has found everything he believed about himself is a lie. He simply has nothing left to lose. He has lost everything that he considered part of his life. I would argue that not only is Arthur not evil but he may not even be Chaotic.
Please remember that evil in dnd means selfish above all else. to be evil is to act in a way that benefits you over others and actively putting other people down. Killing the third banker benefited arthur, but was actually unnecessary at that point and hurt the banker. Clearly done out of selfishness or evil. Killing his mother was again pretty obviously done selfishly at the cost to his mother, and killing murray was clearly done to further his message even if it wasn't premeditated.
@@jobhunter5090 Sorry I disagree. Every one of these instances is an apt comparison. Killing the third banker was symptomatic of PTSD, which Arthur has in spades. The remainder of the movie clearly lays out his metal problems and exactly why he has them. It is unnecessary to hurt the banker. He has him on the ground, at his mercy. If fact he is in the same position Arthur was in only moments before. This is an apt comparison. If this makes Arthur evil, then the banker was evil as well... The difference here is that the bankers were beating Arthur because they simply wanted to. Arthur acted in self-defence, with perhaps overkill in the case of the third banker. But had he let him go, who is to say that this banker would not possibly be harassing another woman tomorrow, or beating another poor soul to death. Again this was not a "good" act but it was also not overtly evil. It is the theme of the whole movie, which may not be the point of most other takes on the joker. Is this guy truly evil? Because, all of these things he did can be forgiven from a certain point of view. Killing the woman who claimed to be his mother was again not good but in defence of a person who is suffering from the problems Arthur is suffering from , he had just found out that the person who he thought was the "most good" person he knew is actually the "most evil" person he knew. This is an apt comparison because She had lied about everything she ever told Arthur about his life. He just woke up from a life long fantasy that was weaved by a person who he had spent his life serving. He is not Wayne's child. He is not her child and she and her boyfriends had abused him so badly that he couldn't even remember the abuse. Is this a good act? No it is not... but again given in the last few days Arthur has suffered life changing trauma, given the life shaking truths he has uncovered, given his preexisting conditions, given his lack of medication and his fear of what that could mean for him. Was he evil or just crazy? This is my point. Arthur is clearly insane (with good cause). He is clearly unable to operate in normal society. And in the last 48 hours everything that was grounding him in reality has been removed. He is an untethered ship floating in a stormy sea. Killing Murray was not done in any way to send a message because he had no message to send, or at least he did not intend to send a message. What other people decided the killing of the bankers meant was not what it meant to Arthur. Murray was the last person who had wronged him. This is an apt comparison because if you want to talk about selfish... this would aptly describe Murray! Why is Arthur even on the show? Because Murray wanted to break him down in person. Murray was upset because his attempt to belittle Arthur backfired and he wanted him on the show to save face and put an end to the criticism he got over running the clip of Arthur. Again murder is never good but in Arthur's case: he is criminally insane but not evil. Now this does not preclude him becoming evil and perhaps by the end of the movie, when he might have killed his shrink, he is evil. But before then, nah, I don't see him as evil. Unless of course the entire movie is just a delusion he is having when he is sitting in the room with the shrink he eventually kills.
@@MolotDET In 1e adnd mental illness instantly dropped your alignment to chaotic, from there you where evil regardless of circumstance if you omitted evil acts regardless of blame or responsibility. Even someone dominated by another would glow with an evil alignment while dominated to reflect their current nature. Criminal insanity isn't a functional plea within the rules of dnd. A good example of this is that were wolves are always chaotic evil, even though it is the curse that drives them towards evil actions. Even if they resist with all their might, they go insane and rampage, which the game still colors them evil for until they are cured. In short unlike real life, dungeons and dragons clearly defines what each alignment represents and regardless of circumstance. Killing a surrendering opponent always evil even if you are suffering from mental illness (in dnd) Killing a helpless individual for betraying you. Considered evil, doesn't normally cause an alignment this one is the most nuanced. Originally Arthur was going to kill himself, but he instead shoots murray. This conveys he has a message in mind even if it is left ambiguous. That being said dnd would still classify this as an evil act. He still fundamentally chose all of the pieces that led up to him shooting murray and thus even if murray antagonized him a bit, it is still evil (in dnd) to fly off the handle and shoot someone. I would like to emphasize that dnd has a very specific list of qualifiers for good and evil, as it has too because it incorporates devils demons angels and various spirits that represent these alignments taken to extreme. As an example every demon could be classified as insane.They represent chaos taken to its logical extreme and that includes expression of illogical thought and mental illness. an example would be Demo-gorgon and his bickering two heads is almost an allegory for multiple personalities.
So..... Bringing a gun into a children's hospital, playing with a gun, and lying about the gun is Chaotic Neutral, but unintentionally being stalker-ish, with, as you said, no ill intent, is Chaotic Evil?
BUT WHO IS CHAOTIC NEUTRAL!?!?!? I can make out everyone else but that is the only one I can't tell while it is in the artwork! (as Loki says in Thor) TEEEEELLLL MEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
i gotta admit for some reason the only person in my head that came to mind with the same shape as the chaotic evil picture was the doctor of no duh doctor who and i was alwasy thinking weird pick but i can somehow agree with that stance on the character but knowing hes joker makes more sense lmao
9:26 I feel like telling the truth only to get the guy in trouble is a lawful evil act whereas vandalizing the building is a chaotic evil act. Either way, I think these should be counted separately.
i mean, taking revenge is over one guy isn't what i would have called chaotic evil but more chaotic neutral or neutral evil. since it was only against one persone.
he still went out of his way and premeditated a murder on live television to bring as much attention to himself as possible...ARGUABLY chaotic neutral but i'd argue more CE: )
@@TheLoadingCrew Yeah but in some of your videos you counted revenge as chaotic neutral.(I think this is chaotic evil by the way,I just wanted to point that out.)
Shouldn’t stock but evil might be a bit hash and kissing her if she resisted and he continued I think it would be evil but in his fantasy she was down I’d probably go for chaotic neutral for those two I’d also say the same about the vandalism after he got fired
the alt-right incel connection probably comes from the fact that the joker had become kinda an icon in those circles, mainly from the dark knight and heath ledger's joker, and had pretty much been so since their inception. That's where the whole "we live in a society" and "gamers rise up" jokes came from, parodies of people who are obsessed with the joker and his ideology, comparing themselves to him claiming they're the only ones who can see the truth about society. The jokes and memes about this only increased this connection ironically as people took em further, exagerating making the joker an explicity racist, alt-right, woman hating, gamer. Movie bassically is a victim of circumstance, came out at the wrong time when the associations of the joker being a symbol for the alt-right were at their peak due to internet culture. Doesn't help that the entire plot of the movie is a commentary on society, which is honestly where all the jokes started, as people who acted smarter than the actually were, were using the joker to comment on society, in their own warped perception of society. sucks cause this movie actually had good commentary on society. I think this is definitive proof that yes we do infact live in a society
Lawful Neutral is Judge Dredd, Neutral Evil is Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7. I'm not sure who Chaotic Neutral is but I think it looks like Lina Inverse from Slayers. Again, not sure, kinda hard to tell.
Since we got a joker video that means eventually we'll get a Judge Dredd one! Mean he'll be straight up Lawful Neutral buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I boi can dream :')
Technically, by dnd standards, we would need his attributes to determine if he knew better on some of the situations. He may have thought at the time when he chased the person down and killed him was perfectly justified. Although some believe the current societies standard would the act is unjustified, he still could believe it is. Also, the fact if he does have a lower intelligence by societies standards, many of the "chaotic evil" situations could be just neutral by his standards. He may have "stalked" the girl because he felt she was in danger or distress. May have been because he never knew what it was like to be innocent/loved. When he killed the man that gave him the gun, that act to could have been justified in his mind, considering he felt the guy did him wrong is evident enough to believe his outlook on law isn't the same as "regular" society. Chaotic neutral would be if there wasn't a "cause" for him to feel wronged to kill someone. A person with high intelligence would be able to align with "societies" laws/policies, making these situations chaotic neutral/evil. In my opinion, the joker has a high charisma and luck with a low intelligence and average strength/dexterity as well as constitution. His actions may seem chaotic at times, but are common ground for his realm of thinking. I bet he'd be an upstanding citizen in an anarchy setting... Just something to think about.
Personally I love this movie because it's both pulling elements from the Killing Joke... and it's also telling it's own story. To quickly summarize, flashbacks are shown of a failing stand up comedian, who tries his damndest but isn't bringing in the cash for his wife, who is pregnant. Eventually driven by a lack of success or help, he goes to the mob and agrees to do a run for them as Red Hood... except just before the run, his wife is killed in a tragic accident, rendering it pointless. He goes through with it anyway and ends up taking a dip in a vat of chemicals, turning into the Joker... except as the Joker himself famously says: "Something like that happened to me, you know. I... I'm not exactly sure what it was. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" And this movie, unironically, plays true to that. A man just trying to live his life, before pressure and stress mounts on him and he ends up snapping. Could it be the "real" backstory? We'll never know... and the Joker would love it that way.
I watched the Joker movie recently and I was surprised that somebody with a really good life I would throw it all away over a couple of mildly inconvenient things
Can you do ones on Magneto and Galactus? ... Personally, I think both are lawfull evil, but an agument could be made for Galactus being lawfull netral, because his motivation is self-preservation.
The only characters I don't know on the chart are the True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, and the Neutral Evil characters. Everyone else I recognize. Captain America, Sora, Ash Ketchum, Judge Dredd, Darth Vader, and The Joker.
Based on the rules set in the beginning of the video, stalking isn't evil. Just because something is wrong or creepy doesn't mean its evil, and considering joker had no ill intent and didn't hurt anyone by doing so, I'd label it chaotic neutral.
I don’t know if you take requests but a there a way you can do a Superman alignment. A lot of people believe that he’s Lawful-Good but I firmly believe that he’s more Neutral-Good by nature.
Who are the other people on the chart? I recognize Captain America (Marvel), Sora (Kingdom Hearts), and Ash Ketchum (Pokemon) as the Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic Goods respectively, and that's definitely Darth Vader (Star Wars) as Lawful Evil, but who are the others? True Neutral looks kiinda like Haku (Naruto) and I'm guessing that Lawful Neutral is Judge Dredd (2000 AD), but Chaotic Neutral looks like Kefka (Final Fantasy VI) who is decidedly Chaotic Evil, and Neutral Evil looks kinda like some weird cross between Goro (Mortal Kombat) and Excalibur (Warframe)
If something’s out of your control it has nothing to do with your alignment so that one thing on the bus where he had a breakdown wouldn’t be aligned anywhere
@@TheLoadingCrew Oh. Saw that you play a Pokémon DND Mod. I've been looking into doing something with Shin Megami Tensei, but it's been a bit of a struggle. A shame since Megami Tensei predates Pokémon.
TheLoadingCrew Puella Magi Madoka Magica. It has 12 episodes and a movie. There's also a spinoff series that's ongoing, but none of the characters from the main show have had more than a few cameos so far.
Spoiler alert. Being the joker most versions of the character pretty much rarely if ever do a single good thing and even the few occasions where he does it’s either not out of good intentions or just one of the occasions when he’s briefly sane so he’s kinda not himself, that or it’s before he’s the joker so again he’s arguably not himself. He’s pretty much always chaotic something and occasionally switching between neutral and evil. I personally wouldn’t call Arthur killing his mother chaotic evil, remember she was at best a willing witness of child abuse, at worst a perpetrator herself. Murder’s always an evil action but the victim wasn’t an innocent or good person so I’d give that a middle of the road chaotic neutral.
Well OBVIOUSLY he’s a lawful good smh 🙄
Lol
um, bards can't be lawful (3rd ed rules), he obviously neutral good!
THANK YOU! Running away from the IRS out of fear is always Lawful Good.
If I were to guess he starts off as a neutral good or even just neutral character but as the movie goes on he delves further into Chaotic Neutral, possibly on the cusp of Chaotic Evil like the Joker's typical alignment.
Damn. I was spot on.
He falls into chaotic neutral and then he just yeets himself into chaotic evil
what’s scary is even during the Murray show scene there’s still a small sliver of humanity left in Arthur because he genuinely felt the people he killed deserved it and tried to justify his actions while joker from the comics once literally killed a whole studio audience just for fun. It’s not until he paints the blood smile on his face that Arthur completely “dies”and there’s only joker left.
I’m wondering wether we’ll see more of that in Follie A Deux or wether he’ll now be the fully chaotic joker.
7:30 A misfire is when the firearm fails to shoot when it's asked to. What happened here is called a negligent discharge and is a sure fire way of getting yourself banned from the range
14:15 The simple answer is that it’s not. The movie is highly critical of the media and its effect on society. In turn, the media tried to spin it to be something it’s not by using some snarl words. This happens frequently these days, to the point where terms like “alt-right” and “socialism” have lost meaning in the lexicon.
I still fucking love how much they were mistaken.
They kept fucking screaming shit like "This will create more terrorist and school shooters and bla bla bla!" and all that really came out of it was a bunch of people dancing on some steps for a little while and a pretty good movie that a lot of people enjoyed.
The media are so busy trying to shift the blame on anything and everything other than themself despite the fact it is proven that them featuring school shooters and the like is one of the reasons there are so many copy cats.
They make these phychotic broken people famous so obviously other broken people gets inspired by it. Fuck the media. Stop trying to blame violence on videogames, movies and everything else and fucking start taking some resposiblity or shut the absolute fuck up!
"we become what we behold"
google it and have your best and darkest time
@@makaramuss I'm going to do this. I'm going to regret this aren't I
Edit: I regret this... Anymore recommendations???
edit 2: like seriously any other recommendations?
@@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084 sorry mate not anymore but this was so related to the topic I had to suggest it :P
@@makaramuss oh ok well thanks for showing me a good game
Hamil's laugh, if there's a nat 20 joker moment. It is that laugh.
totally! it's so good! mark hamil joker just nails it
Whenever Joker is in comics I'm reading I hear Hamil's voice in my head.
Specifically the last laugh in Mask of the Phantasm.
Always. Best Joker.
I actually want to point out the final speech the joker says it's sort of a
reinterpretation of a line from a Roman politician Tullius Cicero where Cicero says "What society does to our children so too will our children due to society."
oooo! dope! I never caught that
I learned that quote from Razorfist he is a political RUclips channel
i'll check him out
@@TheLoadingCrew Fair warning his political views are center right and he does support trump and his jokes can be very off color just fair warning
I'm right leaning in lots of instances so that doesn't bother me, neither do differentiating opinions :) thank you for the warning though
The people who thought this would cause mobs are exactly the people the movie criticized
Hold up, Arthur should *absolutely* start off as Neutral Good, as he IS actively attempting to help others in his own way; specifically in attempting to make the child on the bus laugh.
I mean regardless his actions in this movie are very chaotic neutral and chaotic evil and by the end of it I'd say chaotic evil is a very suiting alignment for him. The man killing ppl and laughs about it and enjoys the chaos his brought. If that ain't chaotic evil idk what is.
@@honkbrother8000 He doesn't start off doing all that though.
"Chasing down and killing someone is chaotic evil"
I mean, the guy would probably tell the authorities and they would believe him.
Yeah, self preservation at the expense of others is neutral evil.
Yeah, I'd definitely say that this could be either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil; Neutral if he did it to prevent the guy from alerting authorities, Chaotic if he did it just because he wanted to.
@@anomaly7853 this thread is dead but i have to agree its more of a neutral evil and not a chaotic evil.
I get that this is a year old but if it's to prevent them from alerting the authorities (like they have any right to when THEY were the ones who started the whole mess in the first place by BREAKING THE LAWS those very same authorities put in place to defend) then HOW THE FUCK is that evil? More like self defense or just neutral in my book
"chaotci evil" *chaotic neutral go up* My brain: *Confused screaming*
The irony is that before the movie came out people thought it would be an alt-right incel reallying cry, but it was actually pro socialized health care, pro gun control, mental illness as real illness, and anti rich people.
Yeah. Everyone interprets art differently depending on their already conceived opinions/ideas, but for me, the movie comes out as quite left-leaning. Class conflict was a major theme of the movie
I have to honestly blame the whole “gamers rise up” meme tbh. People just thought this would be a meme film and mocked it before it came out, but then it turned out to be a great film that funny enough, really did show the horrors of society genuinely
pro-gun control? where did you interept that? He got the gun illegally, and in fact used it to actually defend himself (before then actually committing murder).
@@dominusbalial835 it may not have been intended, but that's how I interpreted it. He was clearly mentally unstable and shouldn't have been given a gun, and wouldn't have murdered those guys without it. I assumed they weren't supposed to deserve being murdered, even if they were jerks. He also accidentally fires it, showing again that he just shouldn't have it. It may have been acquired illegally, but it didn't get taken away when his boss found out he had it and it must have been easy for his coworker to buy it with the intent of giving it away.
@@gauracappelletti3893 Well first off thats the issues that arise from aquiring a gun illegally. any systems in place by the law aren't in pratice. and it isn't the laws fault that he was able to aquire it. Additonally his boss had no way of knowing if the gun was legal or not, and why would try to remove someones property? it's not his responsbility to regulate his employees firearms it's his job to send out clowns. Those guys did deserve to be killed in self efence but like I said before chasing them down after they fled and murdering them was wrong. That's no longer self defence, that is murder. Also I don't know if gun ownership is legal in gotham but i'm going off the assumption it is because it's based off the us city new york.
Depends on the iteration. Most are chaotic evil, but ones like Caesar Romero's version would be Chaotic Neutral-Lawful Evil.
If I could make a request, Indiana Jones. It was fun watching the saga in chronological order and I think it would make for a great video.
The scene from Mask of the Phantasm was GOLD. I want it as a ringtone.
All of the illegal hip pelvic thrusts he does in the runtime of this film, chaotic evil.
“Kylo and Ren”
-Stuart 2020
;)
9:34 you called Arthur’s telling them about the gun and breaking the shift marking machine chaotic evil, but both the video and the ding chart showed chaotic neutral
oh! oops. my bad
Main character having a mental break down makes me kind of think of Steven Universe's arc in Steven Universe Future, Well I think focusing on Steven' actions in Future would make a shorter video there is what like five seasons of Steven Universes and a movie before that. I can see Steven's Alignment shifting around through the series, maybe starting as Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neural, and becoming more Neural Good and True Neural as the main series end and the movie happens and by the end of Future become Where ever he stands.
believe me...i'm gonna tackle steven universe one day...
The Jokers alignment is Chaotic Evil? Who’d have guessed lol. Cool vid btw.
check out another :D
To be fair, this film is not about a full fledge Joker. It's about a decent man constantly being abused and dismissed by society, despite all his best efforts to fit in and his desperate pleas for help, so it did make sense to analyse him like this video did, instead of sticking a Chaotic Evil label on his forehead from the start.
I'll be honest, it took me till now to recognize everyone in that alignment wheel.
I got everyone except neutral evil and chaotic neutral.
Now i recognize Sephiroth and Lina Inverse respectively. Good to see someone else who remembers Slayers
True Neutral's that one guy from the first arc of Naruto, right?
@@weirdguy1495
Haku, yeah.
The only person I don't recognize is the neutral good character. Who is that?
@@tnk4me4
Sora from Kingdom Hearts
@@tnk4me4 Sora from Kingdom Hearts.
I want to know where Big Boss from the Metal Gear series would land on the alignment character.
His actions would need to be taken from the 2nd metal gear game as the first Big Boss was actually just a body double, MGS 3, MGS 4 (ending), MGS Peace Walker, MGS Portable Ops and then some parts from MGS V as the story is actually about his body double not him, but he does have a few lines of dialogue and plays a role at the start.
Originale mg1 big boss canon and then mgsV retcon it
Not that im conplaining
@@commissarfoster8721 Current canon overrules previous when it comes to the Metal Gear franchise. Except for Metal Gear Survive......that doesn't exist.
@@zeratul____1228 isnt that what i just said they retconed MG1 so MGSV ending is cannon.
Also i dont of this metal gear survive you speak off never heard of it
Again, I second this petition
Playing devil's advocate for both sides is not something to be ashamed of it is the hallmark of a rational and reasonable person. One who is open to the idea they may be ignorant, and seeks truth above and beyond their own bias and personal tastes.
9:28 Lawfull evil, for telling the truth for malisious purposes, chaotic evil for the vadalism.
The Joker is canonically Chaotic Evil, in all of his incarnations. Joaquin Phoenix's Joker is probebly in the process of shifting from CN to CE.
Heath ledgers Joker would probably be CN
movie joker is chaotic neutral, regular joker is chaotic evil.
Alignment chart icons:
Lawful Good - Captain America (who else would it be?)
Neutral Good - Sora
Chaotic Good - Ash (Why? I don't see Ash really being out for himself all that much. He's very much a team player and doesn't go outside the laws of his society. Not really seeing this one.)
Lawful Neutral - Judge Dredd
True Neutral - Haku
Chaotic Neutral - Lina Inverse
Lawful Evil - Darth Vader
Neutral Evil - Sephiroth
Chaotic Evil - The Joker.
👏👏👏 I applaud you, you finally covered my favorite character of all time I don’t care what version it was you covered my favorite villain of all time, keep up the good work and I will no longer suggest anymore characters because mine has finally been mentioned, Also not surprised he was pure evil.
I really like your videos, and your presentation is excellent, but I feel like one big thing it lacks is a scale for how much something impacts a character’s alignment. As it stands now, every action changes the alignment by an equal portion, despite the fact a lot of the actions have varying levels of extremity. For example, I don’t think it makes much sense that imagining yourself kissing the neighbor girl is quite as Chaotic Evil as becoming the figurehead of a mass riot that causes countless deaths.
I hope you consider this if you see this, thanks!
I thought the picture of the Joker was handsome Jack on the alignment chart lol. Good video! Thanks for making great content!
I always viewed Jack as lawful evil.
So, if I understand it correctly the pictures are:
Lawful Good - Captain America (Marvel Universe)
Neutral Good - Sora (main character from Kingdom Hearts game series)
Chaotic Good - Ash Ketchum (from Pokemon series)
Lawful Neutral - Judge Dredd (from, erm, Judge Dredd)
True Neutral - Haku (from Naruto anime series)
Chaotic Neutral - Lina Inverse (the main heroine from Slayers anime series)
Lawful Evil - Darth Vader (Star Wars)
Neutral Evil - Sephiroth (the main antagonist of Final Fantasy VII)
Chaotic Evil - Joker (from Batman series), as revealed in this video
mmmh :) maybe. who knows. i'll be unveiling them slowly throughout the course of the series. maybe subscribe and you can see the others :)
@@TheLoadingCrew Already subscribed)
The thing about the political crap surrounding Joker is that people had confirmation bias. The movie /has/ no political slant aside from pointing out that we REALLY need to think more carefully about how we treat the mentally ill and others in general. It's effectively an arthouse film in a comic book suit and...honestly, that's really all there is to it. It's a good film but because of the political landscape of the time, a lot of people wanted to have their alignment pandered to whether that be left or right.
i'll talk more about politics in Harley...especially since that show is meant to slant and push some politics
The idea that mentally ill people are a violent, dangerous threat - whether it's due to society's abuse or not - is a political idea, and a dangerously conservative one. By turning victims into weapons, it only furthers dehumanization and does NOTHING to get us the help we often need. It's a BS take, when study after study shows that the mentally ill are not more violent than others and far more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators. You know what aligns to violent outbursts?
Entitlement. Based on gender. Based on race. Based on the idea of 'not getting what you deserve'. That toxic mentality finds a narrow subset of people who feel promised and challenged to present the Big Man Life, and the outcome is violence - from domestic abuse to outright murder. Mental health issues are secondary, but easier to acknowledge. It's a way to make it 'not our problem' because 'they're all just crazy'. It's a cowardly cop-out.
@@SJPaladinHawk Frankly nobody is entitled to ANYTHING. We are all hyper-advanced apes who ALL do not matter in the grand scheme of things duking it out for total control of some random rock in the back end of space. We all strive to better ourselves and we build on the achievements, good or bad, of our ancestors. We should strive to pull each other out of the muck regardless of politics, race, gender, religion, orientation, or what model of freaking car we drive. Only when an entire species can pull together will it truly be strong and humanity is no exception. But for some reason, people on the fringes are just insane zealots who refuse to listen to reason.
I don't share that view, necessarily. Unity is a utilitarian view, and the problem with utility logic is that it absolves us of failing minorities. As long as we're meeting in the middle, we just shrug at the margins. And those margins tend to have faces - faces that don't resemble the median.
I will fight for my entire life against conservative ideas that hurt the margins more, but I got no time nor patience for 'both sides' talk. The 'crazy left' doesn't have the cash, influence, or history to back up the comparison, and the 'bad left' people most often talk about are barely less conservative than their opponents. It's a mess. The problem with the Golden Mean Fallacy is that the middle isn't good enough for all of us. Maybe not good enough for any of us, anymore.
@@SJPaladinHawk And yet going with either fringe causes the other side to become oppressed. Tell me, which is a better option: A.) Neither side truly gets what they want but everyone gets enough to be relatively content or B.) One side gets everything they wish, all their desires fulfilled as the rest of the people are villanized, pushed into the background and mocked?
...I just like how for the first third of the movie he was dancing around neutral, the second third was him heading clearly to chaotic neutral, for the third act does some evil acts though is not enough to stop him being neutral, and it is only for the last few acts of the movie does he cement himself as actually being chaotic evil. IE the perfect path for an origin story of a character towards an obviously fitting alignment XD...
Stuart, finishing his introductory summary of Joker: “Aaand that’s it!”
**IMMEDIATE CUT TO AD**
It’s just coincidence but it was a really funny one imo. The ad literally just popped up as soon as you finished saying “that’s it.”
Huh, honestly I thought that Leatherface and not Joker was in the background of the chaotic evil part of your chart.
I thought that was pretty convincing, you were willing to give him his good action props without excusing what he was ultimately becoming.
Posting while watching beginning, but I think it should be noted his continued work and such for himself and his mother, I feel like he should've had a trend towards lawful at the beginning, though not enough to put him in the category.
I like how he stars with primarily neutral actions and as the movie he slowly drifted to strictly chaotic actions.
I would love to see a video of Anakin/Darth Vader's d&d alignment and how it shifts through the 2 trilogies
The thing about mental illness is that while it never excuses someone’s actions, it can help explain them. I do think that there are genuinely cases where people break down and lose control over themselves and in those cases, it’s easier to be sympathetic because you know it was an accident. But it never erases what happened. I see that a lot in this video. A lot of the things Arthur does happens because he is breaking. He has these moments where he loses control and does evil things. But what I thing really makes Joker evil is that along the way, he stops caring. He hurts people consciously and with the intent to do so. It’s not just because he lost control or broke down, it’s because he genuinely wants to see people break.
I've never seen this movie, but I keep wanting too. The things I love the most are things I find through controversy funnily enough
Joking aside, an alignment video on Benoit Blanc and the Thrombey family from Knives Out would be interesting
Two problems: with Arthur being Chaotic Evil
1: Sanity has no bearing on alignment. Based on this movie alone the Joker cannot be Chaotic Evil. Nothing he does is particularly evil. Look at your main points: a) Killing the third banker, b) Killing his mother, c) Killing the comedian that gave him the gun, d) Killing Murray.
A) While killing the third banker could be considered an overtly evil act, it is more likely that this is an instance of overkill ala PTSD. Because of his laughing condition he was just being beaten nearly to death by these men ,who were btw harassing a young woman (a scene which clearly puts her in danger of sexual assault). He is dangerously low on his medicine (which you rightly showed was a major discomfort for him). He is fired from his job. He just shot two of the bankers and he is enraged and shoots the third while chasing him a short distance. This is not GOOD by any means but is it evil? or neutral crazy?
B) While killing his mother is again not GOOD. There are so many factors which go into this decision it would be almost impossible to call this particular act evil. First, we just learned that this woman is not his mother, and not only that but we learn that she has lied to him about every aspect of his life, and not only that but she is responsible with everything that is wrong with him because everything bad that happened to him during his youth is her fault. What her murder shows is that he is unable to kill himself. He wants so badly to die but he is too weak to do himself in, and so he lashes out at the one person who is truly the cause of his misfortune.
C) Killing the other comedian is perhaps a truly evil act, but again circumstances can call this into question. Our lead has been broken down to his basest instincts. He has decided to end his own life in a spectacular way. This other comedian has wronged him by giving him the gun and then refusing to tell the truth about giving it to him. this causes Arthur hardship (hardship which is basically his own fault but it is easy for Arthur's damaged mind to blame the other man for his misfortune). And again the fact that he lets the midget go even though he saw Arthur kill is a footnote for his psychosis. If he was truly evil killing the dwarf would have been a foregone conclusion.
D) Killing Murray was a spur of the moment decision. This is again not a premeditated crime. Arthur's true intent here was to kill himself. It is a spur of the moment choice to turn the gun on Murray instead of himself. You misread all of the scenes leading to this one. the Joker is not born as he walks down the stairs because he still intends on killing himself. Murdering Murray harkens to all of the killings after the three bankers. Arthur only kills people who he looks up to and have also wronged him. He does not flee the scene. He waits for the authorities and is arrested. He does not attempt to escape but is saved by the mob.
2: This is not your grandfather's Joker. though the movie takes inspiration from many of the Joker stories of old, Arthur Fleck is not any version of the Joker you have seen before. All other versions of the Joker are extremely intelligent, though their particular expertise is rarely the same. The Joker has always been portrayed as a savant of some kind. Arthur is not extremely intelligent. While an argument that most other versions of the Joker are Chaotic Evil, Arthur Fleck is not. Arthur is simply a highly psychologically damaged person who has lost not only his treatment and his meds, but has found everything he believed about himself is a lie. He simply has nothing left to lose. He has lost everything that he considered part of his life. I would argue that not only is Arthur not evil but he may not even be Chaotic.
Please remember that evil in dnd means selfish above all else. to be evil is to act in a way that benefits you over others and actively putting other people down. Killing the third banker benefited arthur, but was actually unnecessary at that point and hurt the banker. Clearly done out of selfishness or evil. Killing his mother was again pretty obviously done selfishly at the cost to his mother, and killing murray was clearly done to further his message even if it wasn't premeditated.
@@jobhunter5090 Sorry I disagree. Every one of these instances is an apt comparison.
Killing the third banker was symptomatic of PTSD, which Arthur has in spades. The remainder of the movie clearly lays out his metal problems and exactly why he has them. It is unnecessary to hurt the banker. He has him on the ground, at his mercy. If fact he is in the same position Arthur was in only moments before. This is an apt comparison. If this makes Arthur evil, then the banker was evil as well... The difference here is that the bankers were beating Arthur because they simply wanted to. Arthur acted in self-defence, with perhaps overkill in the case of the third banker. But had he let him go, who is to say that this banker would not possibly be harassing another woman tomorrow, or beating another poor soul to death. Again this was not a "good" act but it was also not overtly evil. It is the theme of the whole movie, which may not be the point of most other takes on the joker. Is this guy truly evil? Because, all of these things he did can be forgiven from a certain point of view.
Killing the woman who claimed to be his mother was again not good but in defence of a person who is suffering from the problems Arthur is suffering from , he had just found out that the person who he thought was the "most good" person he knew is actually the "most evil" person he knew. This is an apt comparison because She had lied about everything she ever told Arthur about his life. He just woke up from a life long fantasy that was weaved by a person who he had spent his life serving. He is not Wayne's child. He is not her child and she and her boyfriends had abused him so badly that he couldn't even remember the abuse. Is this a good act? No it is not... but again given in the last few days Arthur has suffered life changing trauma, given the life shaking truths he has uncovered, given his preexisting conditions, given his lack of medication and his fear of what that could mean for him. Was he evil or just crazy? This is my point. Arthur is clearly insane (with good cause). He is clearly unable to operate in normal society. And in the last 48 hours everything that was grounding him in reality has been removed. He is an untethered ship floating in a stormy sea.
Killing Murray was not done in any way to send a message because he had no message to send, or at least he did not intend to send a message. What other people decided the killing of the bankers meant was not what it meant to Arthur. Murray was the last person who had wronged him. This is an apt comparison because if you want to talk about selfish... this would aptly describe Murray! Why is Arthur even on the show? Because Murray wanted to break him down in person. Murray was upset because his attempt to belittle Arthur backfired and he wanted him on the show to save face and put an end to the criticism he got over running the clip of Arthur.
Again murder is never good but in Arthur's case: he is criminally insane but not evil. Now this does not preclude him becoming evil and perhaps by the end of the movie, when he might have killed his shrink, he is evil. But before then, nah, I don't see him as evil. Unless of course the entire movie is just a delusion he is having when he is sitting in the room with the shrink he eventually kills.
@@MolotDET In 1e adnd mental illness instantly dropped your alignment to chaotic, from there you where evil regardless of circumstance if you omitted evil acts regardless of blame or responsibility. Even someone dominated by another would glow with an evil alignment while dominated to reflect their current nature. Criminal insanity isn't a functional plea within the rules of dnd.
A good example of this is that were wolves are always chaotic evil, even though it is the curse that drives them towards evil actions. Even if they resist with all their might, they go insane and rampage, which the game still colors them evil for until they are cured.
In short unlike real life, dungeons and dragons clearly defines what each alignment represents and regardless of circumstance. Killing a surrendering opponent always evil even if you are suffering from mental illness (in dnd)
Killing a helpless individual for betraying you. Considered evil, doesn't normally cause an alignment this one is the most nuanced.
Originally Arthur was going to kill himself, but he instead shoots murray. This conveys he has a message in mind even if it is left ambiguous. That being said dnd would still classify this as an evil act. He still fundamentally chose all of the pieces that led up to him shooting murray and thus even if murray antagonized him a bit, it is still evil (in dnd) to fly off the handle and shoot someone.
I would like to emphasize that dnd has a very specific list of qualifiers for good and evil, as it has too because it incorporates devils demons angels and various spirits that represent these alignments taken to extreme. As an example every demon could be classified as insane.They represent chaos taken to its logical extreme and that includes expression of illogical thought and mental illness. an example would be Demo-gorgon and his bickering two heads is almost an allegory for multiple personalities.
So..... Bringing a gun into a children's hospital, playing with a gun, and lying about the gun is Chaotic Neutral,
but unintentionally being stalker-ish, with, as you said, no ill intent, is Chaotic Evil?
yeah....admittedly I let a lot of personal bias get to that one
@@TheLoadingCrew i get it, it's easy to let our own sense of morality cloud our vision. I appreciate you being able to own up to that
Honestly. He's very complex, seems to take something from every alignment. I'd give him a solid neutral for that.
A neutral character wouldn’t take pleasure in killing.
14:45 I see Cap, Sora, Ash, RoboCop, Darth Vader, Sephiroth, and Joker but I can't tell who the True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral representatives are.
Arthur wakes up and washes his face. Lawful Neutral... Arthur opens the door. Neutral...
BUT WHO IS CHAOTIC NEUTRAL!?!?!? I can make out everyone else but that is the only one I can't tell while it is in the artwork! (as Loki says in Thor) TEEEEELLLL MEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
I'm suprise to see Lina from Slayers in your Alligenement chart and pretty must figure all but Lawful Neutral and True Neutral out :)
That cold open was great
Here’s a roller coaster of alignment. Lelouch Vi Britannia from Code Geass.
First act-neutral
Second act-chaotic neutral
Third act-chaotic evil
i gotta admit for some reason the only person in my head that came to mind with the same shape as the chaotic evil picture was the doctor of no duh doctor who and i was alwasy thinking weird pick but i can somehow agree with that stance on the character but knowing hes joker makes more sense lmao
I always thought leather face was the chaotic evil character on the alignment chart 😅
Its considered about the alt right because of association. Dudes in that sphere love the joker and say they "relate" to him constantly.
He's the very embodiment of chaotic neutral. I say this before watching but I doubt anything will change my mind
He's chaotic evil on the chart.
The Joker is chaotic evil incarnate.
His grid is
Captain America -Sora (Kingdom Hearts) - Satoshi/Ash (1997 Pokemon anime)
Judge Dredd - Haku (Naruto) - ????
Darth Vader - ??? - Joker
Joker TN>CN>CE
wait a minute....you're spoiling my videos D:
I really didn't have to watch a 15-minute video to tell you that the Joker character is the physical embodiment of chaotic evil.
If he did not end up at chaotic evil, when I knew what the stained glass figure was, I would have had a crisis of faith.
he's the poster boy of Chaotic Evil
9:26 I feel like telling the truth only to get the guy in trouble is a lawful evil act whereas vandalizing the building is a chaotic evil act. Either way, I think these should be counted separately.
This Joker is more chaotic impure
i mean, taking revenge is over one guy isn't what i would have called chaotic evil but more chaotic neutral or neutral evil. since it was only against one persone.
he still went out of his way and premeditated a murder on live television to bring as much attention to himself as possible...ARGUABLY chaotic neutral but i'd argue more CE: )
@@TheLoadingCrew Yeah but in some of your videos you counted revenge as chaotic neutral.(I think this is chaotic evil by the way,I just wanted to point that out.)
Shouldn’t stock but evil might be a bit hash and kissing her if she resisted and he continued I think it would be evil but in his fantasy she was down I’d probably go for chaotic neutral for those two I’d also say the same about the vandalism after he got fired
I always thought the chaotic evil picture was letherface for some reason
you aren't the only one
the alt-right incel connection probably comes from the fact that the joker had become kinda an icon in those circles, mainly from the dark knight and heath ledger's joker, and had pretty much been so since their inception. That's where the whole "we live in a society" and "gamers rise up" jokes came from, parodies of people who are obsessed with the joker and his ideology, comparing themselves to him claiming they're the only ones who can see the truth about society. The jokes and memes about this only increased this connection ironically as people took em further, exagerating making the joker an explicity racist, alt-right, woman hating, gamer. Movie bassically is a victim of circumstance, came out at the wrong time when the associations of the joker being a symbol for the alt-right were at their peak due to internet culture. Doesn't help that the entire plot of the movie is a commentary on society, which is honestly where all the jokes started, as people who acted smarter than the actually were, were using the joker to comment on society, in their own warped perception of society. sucks cause this movie actually had good commentary on society.
I think this is definitive proof that yes
we do infact
live in a society
Once again, a forgone conclusion like some of the others. But still a good video, I look forward to seeing more characters done.
I don't recognize the characters in chaotic neutral, true neutral, lawful neutral, or neutral evil. Does anyone else recognize them?
True neutral is Haku from Naruto
Lawful Neutral is Judge Dredd, Neutral Evil is Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7.
I'm not sure who Chaotic Neutral is but I think it looks like Lina Inverse from Slayers. Again, not sure, kinda hard to tell.
Thanks. And I think you might be right for chaotic neutral. If nothing else the colors seem to match.
Joker is the 4th Chaotic Alignment.
Chaotic Stupid.
Sure,
That was not a misfire, that was a negligent discharge. Two completely different things.
Since we got a joker video that means eventually we'll get a Judge Dredd one!
Mean he'll be straight up Lawful Neutral buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I boi can dream :')
Peter Coffin did a video on the Joker. Gives a muc more left wing perspective on it, which I'm convinced was the actual aim of the narrative.
I really liked the first two thirds but by the end, the punchline was nonexistent (pun intended).
Technically, by dnd standards, we would need his attributes to determine if he knew better on some of the situations. He may have thought at the time when he chased the person down and killed him was perfectly justified. Although some believe the current societies standard would the act is unjustified, he still could believe it is. Also, the fact if he does have a lower intelligence by societies standards, many of the "chaotic evil" situations could be just neutral by his standards. He may have "stalked" the girl because he felt she was in danger or distress. May have been because he never knew what it was like to be innocent/loved. When he killed the man that gave him the gun, that act to could have been justified in his mind, considering he felt the guy did him wrong is evident enough to believe his outlook on law isn't the same as "regular" society. Chaotic neutral would be if there wasn't a "cause" for him to feel wronged to kill someone. A person with high intelligence would be able to align with "societies" laws/policies, making these situations chaotic neutral/evil. In my opinion, the joker has a high charisma and luck with a low intelligence and average strength/dexterity as well as constitution. His actions may seem chaotic at times, but are common ground for his realm of thinking. I bet he'd be an upstanding citizen in an anarchy setting... Just something to think about.
Personally I love this movie because it's both pulling elements from the Killing Joke... and it's also telling it's own story. To quickly summarize, flashbacks are shown of a failing stand up comedian, who tries his damndest but isn't bringing in the cash for his wife, who is pregnant. Eventually driven by a lack of success or help, he goes to the mob and agrees to do a run for them as Red Hood... except just before the run, his wife is killed in a tragic accident, rendering it pointless. He goes through with it anyway and ends up taking a dip in a vat of chemicals, turning into the Joker... except as the Joker himself famously says: "Something like that happened to me, you know. I... I'm not exactly sure what it was. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"
And this movie, unironically, plays true to that. A man just trying to live his life, before pressure and stress mounts on him and he ends up snapping. Could it be the "real" backstory? We'll never know... and the Joker would love it that way.
Now, the only one I don't recognize on the Alignment Chart, is the Chaotic Neutral.
wait for the Broly video next week :)
I don't agree with a good portion of the alignment sways/labels, but I upmost agree "CHAOTIC", but not as evil (in this movie)
I watched the Joker movie recently and I was surprised that somebody with a really good life I would throw it all away over a couple of mildly inconvenient things
Can you do ones on Magneto and Galactus?
...
Personally, I think both are lawfull evil, but an agument could be made for Galactus being lawfull netral, because his motivation is self-preservation.
The only characters I don't know on the chart are the True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, and the Neutral Evil characters. Everyone else I recognize.
Captain America, Sora, Ash Ketchum, Judge Dredd, Darth Vader, and The Joker.
True Neutral is Haku from Naruto.
At first i thought the actors name was walking pheonix
A job occupation centered around making kids happy should be neutral good somewhat.... garbage man is true neutral.
So suicide makes you evil from your point of view? This movie was for you.
what are you on about?
stalking is neutral evil
chaotic evil would be letting the person know they're being actively stalked
Based on the rules set in the beginning of the video, stalking isn't evil. Just because something is wrong or creepy doesn't mean its evil, and considering joker had no ill intent and didn't hurt anyone by doing so, I'd label it chaotic neutral.
I don’t know if you take requests but a there a way you can do a Superman alignment. A lot of people believe that he’s Lawful-Good but I firmly believe that he’s more Neutral-Good by nature.
not opposed to that :)
Who are the other people on the chart? I recognize Captain America (Marvel), Sora (Kingdom Hearts), and Ash Ketchum (Pokemon) as the Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic Goods respectively, and that's definitely Darth Vader (Star Wars) as Lawful Evil, but who are the others? True Neutral looks kiinda like Haku (Naruto) and I'm guessing that Lawful Neutral is Judge Dredd (2000 AD), but Chaotic Neutral looks like Kefka (Final Fantasy VI) who is decidedly Chaotic Evil, and Neutral Evil looks kinda like some weird cross between Goro (Mortal Kombat) and Excalibur (Warframe)
Chaotic Neutral nuff said
...
He's definantly gonna be Chaotic something.
On what planet is Joker *neutral*
:/
If something’s out of your control it has nothing to do with your alignment so that one thing on the bus where he had a breakdown wouldn’t be aligned anywhere
ya know what...fair
batman is who we want to be. joker is who we end up as.
3:08 Shhhhh! Litterature Devil gets triggered over that statement!
LOL!
@@TheLoadingCrew Oh. Saw that you play a Pokémon DND Mod. I've been looking into doing something with Shin Megami Tensei, but it's been a bit of a struggle. A shame since Megami Tensei predates Pokémon.
I'd be very curious to see your thoughts on Homura Akemi's alignment.
what series is that?
TheLoadingCrew Puella Magi Madoka Magica. It has 12 episodes and a movie. There's also a spinoff series that's ongoing, but none of the characters from the main show have had more than a few cameos so far.
ooooh!! them! maybe
Was is this 15 minutes? It should only take at most 10 seconds to say chaotic evil.
I'd say chaotic stupid... Based on the actions being similar to one of my players...
What alignment is Hiro Hamada from Big Hero 6?
Besides Dio, is there anyone who is more Chaotic Evil than Joker, I guess Dio is debateble, but still.
Don't forget what he did after he shot Barbra
Why am I not surprised?
Spoiler alert. Being the joker most versions of the character pretty much rarely if ever do a single good thing and even the few occasions where he does it’s either not out of good intentions or just one of the occasions when he’s briefly sane so he’s kinda not himself, that or it’s before he’s the joker so again he’s arguably not himself. He’s pretty much always chaotic something and occasionally switching between neutral and evil. I personally wouldn’t call Arthur killing his mother chaotic evil, remember she was at best a willing witness of child abuse, at worst a perpetrator herself. Murder’s always an evil action but the victim wasn’t an innocent or good person so I’d give that a middle of the road chaotic neutral.