@@alexpeak16wasn't the reason that the reliability was so bad the cooling on that car? pretty sure at least one mclaren from the 2000s had horrible reliabilty because it just could not be cooled enough
well quality does kinda suffer when basically the CTO of the engine division dies in a plane crash, leaving the CEO to juggle both jobs at once on his own
It wasn't all the car though because that year they did the rule where the tires needed to last the entire race which caused the suspension to break on the last lap in Germany due to a flat spot. Suzuka is still my favorite F1 race of all time in that car. The MP4-20 started design trends that every modern F1 card uses to this day. I just wish modern cars were that smaller size again.
it was hardly equal, those guys actually worked together and had a whole team. over the McLaren, Ron Dennis fucked over Adrian Newey with the team politics (what on god's green earth is "design by committee"?), Newey was basically in the kitchen but not allowed to cook. over at Mercedes their functional CTO died in a plane crash leaving their function CEO to juggle both jobs by himself. this led to quality going down the drain and Mercedes engines that kept blowing up its like if Brawn went to war with Todt, Bryne gets taken out in a plane crash, Ferrari losing, and then saying Alonso was the only one that could beat Schumacher on equal footing
@@dragonkrieg4444 True, also Dennis never forgave Newey for the failure that was the Mp4-18. But the concept was very sound that it was the baseline for the Redbull dominant blown diffuser cars.
@@ChristopherBuenviajeNo it wasn't, the Red Bulls of 2010 onwards were designed to a completely different rule set, very little in common with Newey's earlier designs.
@andrewcarter9649 The concept of the blown diffuser was originally made for the Mp418 that's why the gearbox and exhaust lay out was so groundbreaking but the car failed having so many new concepts. The 2010 Redbull carried over the perfected concept from the Mp4-18.
There is another unraced McLaren; they made a car in 1993 (the MP4/8B) with a Lamborghini V12 (the MP4/8 had a Ford V8). The Lamborghini was a lot more powerful but ended up being unreliable so they signed with Peugeot for 1994 instead. The Peugeot engine proved to be a complete disaster.
If I'm not mistaken, The Lamborghini wasn't unreliable, but Lamborghini was suffering financial issues. McLaren chose not to use the Lambo V12's due to the potential risk of Lambo going bankrupt. I could be wrong though.
@@yannickvaz694 hai ragione... nonostante ad Ayrton piacque moltissimo il V12 emiliano,fu solo ed esclusivamente una questione di soldi... Peugeot pagò x fornire il motore V10 a Mc Laren...
The MP4 20 was definitely a championship winning car, but very unreliable, but for me one of the fastest in F1 history, an underdog usually not mentioned as one of the greatest cars ever.
To be considered one of the best cars ever, reliability is a factor. If it breaks down every two races it can't be a good car. Fast yes, but overall is crap.
Aah the MP4-20… better known as the heartbreaking machine… probably the only car to lead races and retired up until the last few laps in multiple occasions.
The Parting is book that explains the team drama at that time was really interesting. It really shows just how screwed up the Ron Dennis Arrow was and how good for a team Adrian and his vision actually is
Adrian Newye made so many bad cars but people don't talk about it. Adrian made bad cars from 2000-2004 and then his terrible first Red bull and then 2017 & 19 regulation mistake
2000-2004 Ferrari was simply better, but the 2000 MP4/15 was a great car and so were it's successors until all the MP4/17s. The MP4/18 suffered from a shorter wheelbase, which Newey wanted to change, but McLaren ruled out for cost reasons aswell as it being one of the first cars that had very tight packaging and therefore lots of unknown difficulties. Newey's first Red Bull, the RB3 wasn't a bad car, but it suffered from reliability issues. The 2017-2019 Red Bulls weren't really a true Newey design. He stepped back from focusing on F1 for 2015 until 2018 when Honda arrived and Newey didn't have to make do with horrible Renault engines. His cars weren't always great, but they weren't bad either. Especially at McLaren they didn't allow him to do whar was needed to build cars the way he wanted to, instead everything was decided by a commitee.
@@AndyHack10 Ron and Martin set up that committee which was a basically a consensus based approach of 'voters' who had to agree to everything they said and did. That was when Ron really lost the plot.
2015 wasn’t a great year either. Red Bull finished behind Williams. I always find it strange that James Allison doesn’t get much credit for the work and success he’s had over the years, at different teams.
McLaren had the best car in 2000 and in 2001-2002 the only reason they weren't too competitive was the engine. The 2003 car (basically an updated version of the 2002 car) was also pretty good. Only the 2004 car was terrible, as mentioned in the video.
Adrian Newey is the rarest breed of pure intelligence and aerodynamical brilliance combined. Can tell this only by judging his work, imagine meeting the man!
Unpopular opinion. The Matrix management structure worked for Mclaren after Newey’s departure and ensured they remained competitive until the hybrid era.
It worked for them until it didn't, they were falling behind before the turbo hybrid era and were too proud to realise that it wasn't only Honda's fault
They still lost a few titles to unreliability which lasted all the way to 2018 when finally they realized the engine manufacturer wasn't the sole culprit of the problems. Even after Mercedes created their factory team and had a reliability way higher than McLaren, they still insisted it wasn't them. Then came Honda and they did the same. Then on their first year with Renault where they were burning engine covers in testing finally they understood they couldn't continue to be arrogant and had to change.
@@The_Curious_Cat 2005 and 2012 they lost titles to poor reliability. Someone without Ron’s ego and thirst for power would have realised 2014 was a real warning sign; that car had the best engine on the grid by a mile and still finished behind the worst Ferrari since the F92A.
MP4-17 was a better platform even if it was aging rapidly. Both Williams and McLaren decided to revolutionise too late in the regulation cycle and would’ve faired better with revised 2003 evolutions ahead of 2005’s new regs. For Williams, they never recovered from that mistake in 2004 which hurt them badly in ‘05 still playing catch up to this day.
This was also the time of the rule changes trying to end Ferrari dominance end up costing both Ferrari and McLaren, Renault and their buddies Michelin were the only ones who benefited from it.
I don't doubt that - Ron ran the team with an iron fist and everything was his way or no way. That's why the MP4-19 was one of their worst cars and it wasn't until he saw how slow and unreliable it was (7 engine failures in the first 7 races) that he finally relented and let Newey make the much better B-spec car.
Adrian Newey is the all time greatest Formula 1 figure in history. No one even comes close. He's won more titles than any driver or team. From McLaren to the 4 straight Vettel Red Bull to the soon to be 4 straight Verstappen Red Bulls. And he shows no sign of stopping (or leaving RB for all the conspiracists out there).
How is this "Newey getting it wrong"? He opposed to that design and McLaren ignored him. Not only that, but it was him the one that turned that mess into a decent F1 car in the end. People looove to show this as the example of "even Newey can get things wrong" and it's infuriating because he didn't.
Looks very similar to the Mercedes W-15 livery. Just swap the red line bordering the black and silver for an aqua green/blue line……. Behaves like W-15 too. Lol
Newey is a genius but this video talks about how he got it wrong, but then made out like he came to the rescue, "only when Newey got to make the changes he pushed for" why didn't he just make the initial car not have issues...
So it was raced not unraced and it wasn’t actually one of the time newey got it wrong because he wasn’t allowed to make the car the way he wanted…any other random lies you wanna back track on in the span of a 30sec YT short??
Спорт
and the fact that kimi missed the 2003 championship by 2 points driving what was essentially the 2002 car is impressive
And I think with only 2 wins if my memory serves right
Hard to win races when your car dies constantly
@@NicotineRosbergjust the one in Malasiya
@@NicotineRosberg only won one race in Malaysia, and it was his first win in F1
@@Rainaman- the 2003 car ( MP17D) was extremely reliable and not a bad car at all.
As a fan of Raikkonen, I have to say that 2004 season was absolutely painful to watch. That damn car was made of glass.
I wonder if the overly tight packaging at the back contributed to all the engine failures in the first half of 2004.
I totally agree. But at the very least when it didn’t go up in flames, it was the best looking McLaren that Kimi drove in my opinion.
@@wolfgangvan-uber6515 I'd go with the 2005 car but the West era is still peak McLaren livery.
@@alexpeak16wasn't the reason that the reliability was so bad the cooling on that car? pretty sure at least one mclaren from the 2000s had horrible reliabilty because it just could not be cooled enough
@@garbage2882 You’re right, it was the MP4-19 that was horribly unreliable but the 2001 and ‘02 cars were both severely unreliable too.
What do we learn from this?
Let Newey cook and you got yourself a perfect meal
ah yes the MP4-20. Bloody fast and still really unreliable which cost them the championship in the end
4/20 was all I heard from this 💀
well quality does kinda suffer when basically the CTO of the engine division dies in a plane crash, leaving the CEO to juggle both jobs at once on his own
It wasn't all the car though because that year they did the rule where the tires needed to last the entire race which caused the suspension to break on the last lap in Germany due to a flat spot. Suzuka is still my favorite F1 race of all time in that car. The MP4-20 started design trends that every modern F1 card uses to this day. I just wish modern cars were that smaller size again.
Unraced, unracable but stunning
Aero, livery, & the grooved tires. Such good looking cars!
The team of Schumacher, Brawn and Bryne were the only ones to beat Newey design cars on equal footing back then.
Renault entered the chat
it was hardly equal, those guys actually worked together and had a whole team. over the McLaren, Ron Dennis fucked over Adrian Newey with the team politics (what on god's green earth is "design by committee"?), Newey was basically in the kitchen but not allowed to cook.
over at Mercedes their functional CTO died in a plane crash leaving their function CEO to juggle both jobs by himself. this led to quality going down the drain and Mercedes engines that kept blowing up
its like if Brawn went to war with Todt, Bryne gets taken out in a plane crash, Ferrari losing, and then saying Alonso was the only one that could beat Schumacher on equal footing
@@dragonkrieg4444 True, also Dennis never forgave Newey for the failure that was the Mp4-18. But the concept was very sound that it was the baseline for the Redbull dominant blown diffuser cars.
@@ChristopherBuenviajeNo it wasn't, the Red Bulls of 2010 onwards were designed to a completely different rule set, very little in common with Newey's earlier designs.
@andrewcarter9649 The concept of the blown diffuser was originally made for the Mp418 that's why the gearbox and exhaust lay out was so groundbreaking but the car failed having so many new concepts. The 2010 Redbull carried over the perfected concept from the Mp4-18.
There is another unraced McLaren; they made a car in 1993 (the MP4/8B) with a Lamborghini V12 (the MP4/8 had a Ford V8). The Lamborghini was a lot more powerful but ended up being unreliable so they signed with Peugeot for 1994 instead.
The Peugeot engine proved to be a complete disaster.
If I'm not mistaken, The Lamborghini wasn't unreliable, but Lamborghini was suffering financial issues. McLaren chose not to use the Lambo V12's due to the potential risk of Lambo going bankrupt. I could be wrong though.
@@yannickvaz694 Thanks, that does make sense as Lambo were in repeated difficulties prior to their purchase by Audi.
The amount of unraced F1 cars is countless. If you search unraced f1 cars you'll find a lot of stuff on this subject
@@yannickvaz694 hai ragione... nonostante ad Ayrton piacque moltissimo il V12 emiliano,fu solo ed esclusivamente una questione di soldi... Peugeot pagò x fornire il motore V10 a Mc Laren...
the MP4-20 is one of the best looking F1 cars of all time
Yeah, the "epic" 2005 McLaren that was also unreliable and made Kimi lose another title.
The MP4 20 was definitely a championship winning car, but very unreliable, but for me one of the fastest in F1 history, an underdog usually not mentioned as one of the greatest cars ever.
With the unreliability it sadly can't be considered one of the greatest.
To be considered one of the best cars ever, reliability is a factor. If it breaks down every two races it can't be a good car. Fast yes, but overall is crap.
Newey and I reliability went hand in hand. Kimi should have been champ in 2005, but mechanical cost him. But that car was gorgeous
This car looked so darn good. Its a crying shame it didnt work.
if mclaren had been reliable, Kimi would now be called 3 wdc..
MP4/18 concept lived on until the MP4/23 and the Red Bull RB3/ Toro Rosso STR2 onwards. You can clearly see the evolution of his same base concept.
Aah the MP4-20… better known as the heartbreaking machine… probably the only car to lead races and retired up until the last few laps in multiple occasions.
The Parting is book that explains the team drama at that time was really interesting. It really shows just how screwed up the Ron Dennis Arrow was and how good for a team Adrian and his vision actually is
Adrian Newye made so many bad cars but people don't talk about it. Adrian made bad cars from 2000-2004 and then his terrible first Red bull and then 2017 & 19 regulation mistake
2000-2004 Ferrari was simply better, but the 2000 MP4/15 was a great car and so were it's successors until all the MP4/17s. The MP4/18 suffered from a shorter wheelbase, which Newey wanted to change, but McLaren ruled out for cost reasons aswell as it being one of the first cars that had very tight packaging and therefore lots of unknown difficulties.
Newey's first Red Bull, the RB3 wasn't a bad car, but it suffered from reliability issues. The 2017-2019 Red Bulls weren't really a true Newey design. He stepped back from focusing on F1 for 2015 until 2018 when Honda arrived and Newey didn't have to make do with horrible Renault engines. His cars weren't always great, but they weren't bad either. Especially at McLaren they didn't allow him to do whar was needed to build cars the way he wanted to, instead everything was decided by a commitee.
Which is just wrong.
@@AndyHack10 Ron and Martin set up that committee which was a basically a consensus based approach of 'voters' who had to agree to everything they said and did. That was when Ron really lost the plot.
2015 wasn’t a great year either. Red Bull finished behind Williams.
I always find it strange that James Allison doesn’t get much credit for the work and success he’s had over the years, at different teams.
McLaren had the best car in 2000 and in 2001-2002 the only reason they weren't too competitive was the engine. The 2003 car (basically an updated version of the 2002 car) was also pretty good. Only the 2004 car was terrible, as mentioned in the video.
And man, did that MP4-20 Blaze around the track, leaving nothing but a smoke cloud.
Even the very best have an L from time to time.
Kimi used to drive those McLarens like he stole them! Ragged the absolute bollocks out of them. What a brilliant job that must be!
Adrian Newey is the rarest breed of pure intelligence and aerodynamical brilliance combined. Can tell this only by judging his work, imagine meeting the man!
I am early but not to beat the gluteus maximus-bots
You bet your bottom dollar.
I wonder if we already hit rock bottom with the comments
Lol gluteus Maximus bots
Unpopular opinion. The Matrix management structure worked for Mclaren after Newey’s departure and ensured they remained competitive until the hybrid era.
It worked for them until it didn't, they were falling behind before the turbo hybrid era and were too proud to realise that it wasn't only Honda's fault
They still lost a few titles to unreliability which lasted all the way to 2018 when finally they realized the engine manufacturer wasn't the sole culprit of the problems.
Even after Mercedes created their factory team and had a reliability way higher than McLaren, they still insisted it wasn't them. Then came Honda and they did the same. Then on their first year with Renault where they were burning engine covers in testing finally they understood they couldn't continue to be arrogant and had to change.
@@The_Curious_Cat 2005 and 2012 they lost titles to poor reliability. Someone without Ron’s ego and thirst for power would have realised 2014 was a real warning sign; that car had the best engine on the grid by a mile and still finished behind the worst Ferrari since the F92A.
MP4-17 was a better platform even if it was aging rapidly. Both Williams and McLaren decided to revolutionise too late in the regulation cycle and would’ve faired better with revised 2003 evolutions ahead of 2005’s new regs.
For Williams, they never recovered from that mistake in 2004 which hurt them badly in ‘05 still playing catch up to this day.
I had a poster of this car with no livery except for all silver for some reason
What a designer Newey!! I would love to see him at Ferrari. See what he can do with Ferrari tradition and design history
This was also the time of the rule changes trying to end Ferrari dominance end up costing both Ferrari and McLaren, Renault and their buddies Michelin were the only ones who benefited from it.
It wasn't bad per se, just too ambitious and ahead of its time.
What a story. Good history to learn
Mad that Ron would hire Newey then ignore his advice.
The real MP/18 was never raced. The end
This!
Imagine your car was shit and Adrian Newey told you how to fix it and you told him to sod off. That’s got to be the biggest mistake in history.
Probably what made Newey resigned from Mclaren
I don't doubt that - Ron ran the team with an iron fist and everything was his way or no way. That's why the MP4-19 was one of their worst cars and it wasn't until he saw how slow and unreliable it was (7 engine failures in the first 7 races) that he finally relented and let Newey make the much better B-spec car.
Right. That was the most confused explanation I have ever seen!
Adrian Newey is the all time greatest Formula 1 figure in history. No one even comes close. He's won more titles than any driver or team. From McLaren to the 4 straight Vettel Red Bull to the soon to be 4 straight Verstappen Red Bulls. And he shows no sign of stopping (or leaving RB for all the conspiracists out there).
Never question Newey
How is this "Newey getting it wrong"? He opposed to that design and McLaren ignored him. Not only that, but it was him the one that turned that mess into a decent F1 car in the end.
People looove to show this as the example of "even Newey can get things wrong" and it's infuriating because he didn't.
Yes he did because the initial car was very bad and it was made by him, even newey admitted that it was a bad car.
@@eric11 the car was made by him but he didnt want to build it that way but he couldnt do anything about it
Ahhh, those were the days when F1 cars sounded like fighter jets made for the track.
They did sound great, but they were so loud, that it drowned out everything else. I quite like that we get to hear the tyres squealing these days.
Anyone knows what the main issue was? Would be cool to know what exactly was
Adrian Newey is a beast
At least it was gorgeous looking ❤
this just goes to show how newey also fucks up like any other human. For some reason people think everything he designs is a winner car
But it didn’t race with the crazy multiple underfloor exhaust right?
Gid does anyone else miss the silver West mclaren??
Looks very similar to the Mercedes W-15 livery. Just swap the red line bordering the black and silver for an aqua green/blue line……. Behaves like W-15 too. Lol
We all miss these cars dont we... :/
i think someone has been drinking the Newey kool aid
In my opinion the mostly beautiful car ever in the formel 1
So... why is it a myth?
Newey is a genius but this video talks about how he got it wrong, but then made out like he came to the rescue, "only when Newey got to make the changes he pushed for" why didn't he just make the initial car not have issues...
Am i the only one confused on how hes talking about mcclaren but shows an f1 car with Mercedes logo and name????
Magnifique voiture 🤩
Create a video titled "unraced" and then says it's raced. Nice.
damm the mercedes looks so similar to this car
The MP4-20 was a terrible car from a reliability standpoint
Usually fantastic content, but please stop the karaoke subtitles. They don’t add anything apart from distraction and blocking the screen. Thanks!
It an accessibility thing
@@seanonraet8327 no. It’s a tiktok thing for teenagers with the attention span of a fly. Accessibility is done non intrusively with close captions.
@@rodintoulouse3054 How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
@@jakefimo i do. Why?
The cursed car
Oh, Herr Scholz
Is anybody aware that there's a mercedes not a McLaren
So it was raced not unraced and it wasn’t actually one of the time newey got it wrong because he wasn’t allowed to make the car the way he wanted…any other random lies you wanna back track on in the span of a 30sec YT short??
That is very interesting
So you broke your own myth, nice
Kimi deserved better
McLaren that is a Mercedes
so whats the myth? there wasnt a single myth in this video
Classic 👍👍👍👍👍
Why is the video of Mercedes ?
Nothing in this video makes sense
Mclaren cost Kimmi at least one championship on 2005. Wish Mclaren went back to this livery. FERRARI fan
thats a mercedes 😅😂
Yes
420… nice
early
Why is there a German flag next to Kimi? He’s fae Finland!
That's the Belgian flag, because he won the 2004 Belgian Grand Prix
@@DJ.V-W well that makes more sense. Thanks for that.
420 time!!!