ERRATA: *sigh* Where to begin? 1. Sorry for the lack of new footage, I accidentally deleted all of my SAM captures 🤦♂ 2. As I said in the video, I had already done most of the work on the script and benchmarking before realising NimeZ drivers weren’t the only way of enabling SAM on old Radeons. As a result, the video may be a little more focused on NimeZ than it really needed to be, while breezing over the registry hack. 🤦♂ 3. After reading the Guru3D post about SAM - about two hours before the video went live - I now understand that SAM is more useful in CPU-limited scenarios, so my very GPU-intensive and VRAM-intensive benchmarks are probably not exploiting SAM to its fullest. 🤦♂
I made it work with 1st Gen Ryzen Threadripper 1900x and Radeon VII (VEGA GCN cores, 16gb HBM RAM) 1. MSI Kombustor Stress test Minimum FPS raised from 730 to 749, maximum from 740 to 770 FPS. 2. Temps After it was successfully enabled, temperatures on both CPU and GPU went up during 3d stress test. 3. Cyberpunk 2077 I noticed that the game wasnt utilizing GPU to the fullest, because it seemed limited to 178 Watts, and CPU was utilized up to 30-35%. So I decreased resolution, GPU power usage went even lower, while CPU usage went up to 60+%. Very strange indeed, so i restored original configuration (4k res, everything on High, FX Fidelity on Balanced) and re-set GPU Voltage to 1.066v (default). Power utilization then went up to about 230 Watts. But still GPU is underutilized and power limited at the same time.
Might as well mention it here that it's worth sending your motherboard manufacturer an email if your board should support SAM but doesn't. Asrock were good enough to send me a beta bios for my old H370. Worked a treat.
Also if for whatever reason the motherboard doesn’t get the option in the bios with a 3x00 series CPUs. Happened to me with a B550 motherboard with a 3600x also with Asrock. First reply they told me ReBar was only supported on 5x00 series CPUs but when I replied that other brands where supporting it on 3x00 series CPUs they sent me a beta bios that worked fine.
Years ago I bought a board that was supposed to have PCI device visualization support (long old time ago) I emailed asrock support, they wrote a custom bios just for me. I stick to asrock now, or did back when I used a PC.
Indeed, ASRock rocks! 😁 The only issue I had was finding the option in the beta BIOS: You need to disable CSM in the boot tab for the option to show under Chipset settings. But CSM is options itself is hidden while fast boot is enabled. Unfortunately I don't own any of the games that benefit a lot, but it's a net benefit and stable without HBCC on Vega, so I'll leave it on.
I've enabled SAM on quite a few GPUs thus far. Aside from my 6000 series cards, I've got it running on a Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse, Powercolor Red Devil Vega56, Asus Strix Vega 64 Crossfire (2 cards), and a Radeon VII. I don't even need to use the NimeZ drivers, all I need to do is add 3 lines to the Windows registry. EDIT: I see you've mentioned this and showed it... nice!
@@lejeffe1663 I used the latest AMD drivers and Crossfire works. I've heard of others' experiencing crashing in games but that's not the case for me. I enabled SAM using a registry hack. Perhaps SAM is why mine aren't crashing?
Games/engines need to be written in such a manner that it can intentionally or unintentionally take advantage of SAM/ReBar. With AMD giving us this option, I expect newer engines and games to more and more take advantage of this feature if and when it makes sense.
As (former, by now, I guess?) game developer, I can tell you, enabling both "SAM" (ReBAR) and HBCC makes no sense as it contradicts architecturally. The magic of "SAM" is actually in AMD's driver optimisation, without it the perf benefit is 1% at best, similar to Nvidia. So just enabling it in the driver gave exactly the result I was expecting. Sadly, without AMD driver team's work optimising each game, old GPUs won't benefit from SAM. I have looked into what it entails way back when it was unveiled, theoretically the first step is to open up a profiler and look at which calls are bottlenecked by the address space, and add "translations" to full-size ReBAR to only those calls. In essence, this only* happens if the game is loading contiguous chunks of data (usually textures) larger than 512MB which as you might have already guessed, is rare and highly dependent on the game design/engine/code... To your errata point 3, yes this is true but it's more of a symptom than a cause. If you switch the calls to >512MB chunks it means that the CPU will spend more time on contiguous memory guaranteeing less cache misses, the CPU isn't limited here as much as it's having more stuff to do and is fed it in a way that is more appropriate for the CPU's design. ie. it's not resource limited, but time-limited. If you optimise it well, the CPU has to wait (sleep) less. You don't have to understand the specifics, just know that this is why it's not as easy as saying "SAM will help in CPU-limited games" *(okay only is a harsh word, but in 99% of cases this is true)
Thanks for that video mate, oh and a bit of a small but distinct chance suggestion; HBCC is EXTREMELY good at teasing out system Ram instability, and triply so with SAM enabled. Ever wondered by default XMP trfc and other sub timings are so looooooose? Things like HBCC+ReBAR are why. I had to set TRC a good 8 points and TRFC 40 points higher than 16 instance memtest 24/7 stable enabling both, to restore game stability. That being said, it's still a wash feature, better to just leave off unless you are struggling with Vram.
I was running NimeZ drivers on my Vega 64 earlier this year to try and squeeze out a little more performance in a few VR games. Didn't really notice much of a difference lol. Thanks for taking a look though! It's neat stuff to mess with even if it doesn't boost performance in every game.
@@IcebergTech ⚡️🚨BREAKING: NATO to donate 2x Patriot SAM batteries and 1x IRIS-T system to help AMD establish a "no Nvidia zone". "We thank our NATO partners for providing us these systems to helo protrct us from the Green threat. Nvidia cards near AMD will now be shot down immediately." - Lisa Su, AMD CEO
I remember using the registry edit to get SAM working with my R5 2600 + RX 580 8GB I used to have lol. So much for it “only” being supported by Zen 3 & RDNA 2 based hardware haha
I use SAM + HBCC with a Vega 56 with games that can exceed 8GB with no issues so far. It is very sensitive to system RAM instabilities, so a system that gives a memory stability test error after hours of testing may crash right away with HBCC.
@@greatwavefan397 idk if that would fix it. The D.O.C.P., XMP or Expo profiles of regular RAM may not be 100% stable with HBCC, but there are ways to increase the stability.
Interesting video good sir! Naive me would have assumed that with the nimez drivers with Sam enabled it would have made a noticeable uplift. Keep up the great work!
@@IcebergTech It’d be cool if it did help with lower settings. Especially since nimez drivers are mainly used on cards that are getting long in the teeth.
I wouldn't say so. What you get with BAR resizing is more than 256MB of cohesive memory. You need this type of memory for synchronization primitives which barely need space at all or for some other types of reads back from the GPU but you don't need a larger amount of it to re-upload data to the GPU. It might make it just a little quicker but not by much. Honestly if you're trying to replace a gig of data per frame on a 4GB card like for one WTF are you doing and for other well that's plain not gonna work you don't have the hardware throughput for that, and a little mapping wasn't going to kill you, the mere handful BAR resets it incurs. I really think the feature is way more relevant with GPUs with lots of VRAM but not relevant yet with current engine architectures.
This is an okay video but I have some gripes with how the testing was conducted and I'll share them one by one: First, SAM works best under CPU limited scenarios. If you're using it in a scenario where the CPU isn't really a limiting factor for the GPU, then you're not going to see much improvement when using SAM whatsoever. Second, you don't need to use something that is as bloated as Nimez drivers that has crap that doesn't get removed even when you DDU them. These are for really, really advanced users who knows exactly what they are doing. There was a point and time when Nimez drivers had features exposed to the users with descriptions that were really vague because the NimeZ team themselves didn't know what these options really meant. The easier choice for this is to use an official driver release, and simply use the registry modification. Third, the Polaris architecture significantly benefits from Resizable Bar. But for it to work, you need to have a 8GB card. It simply won't work on a 4GB card for some reason. There is a workaround for 4GB cards that is NOT recommended. It's better if you use Linux instead. Linux doesn't hide REBAR for older cards like Polaris or VEGA and it works out of the box. Fourth, not all game benefit from REBAR. While some more CPU demanding games do benefit from them, there will be games that are going to see negative scaling due to REBAR overcommitting. Fifth and final, consider checking out Linux performance VS Windows performance using a Linux distro like the NobaraOS. You'll be shocked to see that games like Cyberpunk 2077 and Starfield run faster than Windows on Linux!
Could be interesting to see if there's a way to enable hbcc on 1st gen hbm (fury), maybe it could have a higher impact. Seems like sam like optimised titles tho, so maybe better results with the vulcan api ?
the vega64 is such a weird card. On paper it has as much power as a 1080Ti, but during its life it was let down by bad AMD drivers and driver optimization. It's only been in a few recent low level API games that it really shines and hits the same as a 1080Ti.
I enabled ReBAR on my i5-3550 + RX 470 via some BIOS mods + registry entries. It didn't seem to help with frames in the few tests I ran, but it was nice seeing the slider enabled in Adrenaline!
I think you would have been better off forgetting sam on these older cards and using FSR 3 and frame gen as AMD FSR 3 and frame gen are meant to work on all GPUs and from what I've seen from iGPU like 780M with and without FSR 3 and frame gen is a huge difference in performance and even when using Intel UHD iGPU graphics FSR 3 and frame gen made massive performance gains.
sam helps the ones with 16gb vram . i have it half on lol i say half because the t7920xl caps it at 2gb no matter what . bar one is 256 and the bar 2 2gb which is odd . and when i have it enabled my radeon pro SSG 2 2tb gets a massive boost keeping up with rx 6700xt oc
Just installed it on my Vega 56, now it says it is a Vega 64? SAM enabled on B460 board and with i5-10600 should be able to kick ass until RDNA4 or 5 comes along! :D
I was able to get REBAR and SAM enabled with my i7-8700k+Vega 64 using a beta BIOS offered by Asrock, but performance was practically identical with all my benchmarks (+/- 1fps or so). Although I had no issues with SAM enabled, I did have issues with having CSM disabled whenever I made any major SW or HW changes. I think this was more attributed to the beta bios and nothing to do with the vega 64, but I saw enough that it just wasn't worth the effort, so I leave CSM enabled now and forgo SAM.
I got good use out of my Vega 56 that I got on launch day. Good GPU for 4.5 years before I upgraded to a RX 6800. Its being used in another home pc for general use/video editing from time to time.
I once pointed to an issue in the nimez driver on the 3dguru forum and response was very toxic from multiple people, they called me a clown and said that I have a skill issue because I can't fix the issue by myself, one of them is very close to the dev. Only one person responded nicely but unfortunately it didn't fix my issue. I never visited that forum thread again.
Reziezable BAR is supported as long as the cpu is pcie 3.0 supported... But it takes more skill and risk to make a modded bios for your motherboard... I currently have Resiezable bar in my Chinese X79 platform...
@@bekim137 there is a tutorial in miyconst channel... although it's x99 platform but it still works for the x79... you just need to enable the hidden above 4g decoding...
I'm also on x79 and been thinking about modding my huananzhi x79 deluxe with the rebar dxe, is it worth it? And while at the topic of bios modding for chinese x79, is there any mod that makes vcore adjustable in bios? I have an 1650v2 here. Edit: also using a rx5700 with xt vbios.
@@ZGtx for me not worth it if you can't take the risk... if you didn't enable the Above 4g decoding hidden in bios and you enable the rebar pc would brick unless you put a non supported gpu to undo the changes...
There is a new Driver mod which activates HYPR X on older GPUs , at least with the RX 6000 this should work fine and maybe you get even theFrame Generation boost if its integrated in HXPR X in 1Q24 . This could be a real Game changer , it will downgrade the Picture Quality of course , but maybe it could boost your FPS from 30 FPS native resolution to 70-80 FPS with your old GPU in a l l Games , b u t currently this Feature is limited to RX7000 GPUs .
I remember when I tried to get this on my pc, because you gotta change the os to like UEFI GPT OR MBR, I don’t remember which it was so long ago, but I corrupted my boot drive and lost everything twice. I laughed when I redownloaded the drivers and just checked to see as I just gave up trying at that point, then GUESS what was there, SAM
I have an MSI B450M motherboard on my pc and I enabled ResizableBAR on the bios despite using an unsupported gpu (GTX 1050Ti) because why not. And now that I have an RX 5600 XT (same 3 fan Sapphire model you have) and it shows SAM as active on the Radeon drivers. Not gonna bother testing it on vs off as I don't have time and benchmarks I saw have some improvement in some situations or just a wash at times.
its actually worth it on a per game basis, especially with fh5, but otherwise(in most cases) you can leave it off with the older amd cards. but for people or budget gamer (i'm one of them lol)with older polaris cards, who are looking for an quick and cheap upgrade, i would say just get the rx 5700(non xt) for around 100-140 bucks(or even a used rx 6600) it's still a decent 1080p card and it performs not so far off the 2060super and rx6600(non xt)
Resizeable BAR feature is fundamentally application visible, as any amount of video memory the application requests may be available in cohesive type, as opposed to just a sliding 256MB window being this type. But cohesive memory may impose more unnecessary checks within the application, which can tank performance. For this reason i suspect it's actually masked out in the application profile for most games.
it's weird I couldn't enable SAM on the driver since the Adrenalin software literally wouldn't open when Resizable Bar is turned-on in the BIOS. I've already done the registry key for SAM on the driver but it just wouldn't open when 4G Decoding is enabled. might try Nimez again once I have the motivation again🤣
i installed amernime modded for my rx580 drivers after ddu clean install and enabled resizable bar and above 4g decoding in my h610 bios and csm is disabled but it still says sam not available in amd radeon software
You really should overclock the memory for best performance. I have benchmarks to take proper advantage of Vega. That would greatly help Vega since the memory is a MASSIVE bottleneck on Vega.
After having a 56 and 64, I would agree. I used to love to tweak these cards to get the most as possible. Without the BIOS flash, I was able to get my 56 to keep up with the 64.
Odd... I have R5-2600 paired with my RX6650XT and it has enabled SAM by default, it would seem. Despite the requirement of a Ryzen 5000 series CPU. No modded drivers or anything. Asus Prime B450-Plus. I just went in and took a look. I know that it's disabled on my other build with a R5-3600, but that's because it requires a BIOS update (mobo is still running factory BIOS; Asus TUF B450 Plus-II Gaming) To be fair, it could be it's because of the RX 6650XT cards I have.
I think the information in the video was incorrect, I think Zen+ and newer paired with a 5000+ series card is able to enable SAM.
11 месяцев назад+1
Yes it works on zen+, i have 6650xt asrock one and r7 2700@4ghz and sam works just fine after i enabled rbar in bios after update to latest one and disabled csm
I'll just put this here but when these Resisable BAR was being features in new GPUs t was widely understood that AMDs implementation of ReBAR (SAM) was better then nvidias. Intel also benefits a lot from it too. Hence the marketing as SAM (Radeon marketing actually doing something good vs nvidia for once who have thought.)
while you have those drivers installed, are you aware they allow Hyper-RX on any older amd GPU aswell now? give it a go, I have it running on my 6800XT, looks n runs great
why did you only test console ports? they force limit there games FPS depending on card gen, doesnt matter what you do it wont change the FPS at all, why are using them? i dont get it...
Man if someone can help to understand this... I have a Ryzen 7 5700G, Rx 5600XT, when I enable SAM I get a huge loss in fps. I can add more info for anyone who has questions.
I got an asus tuf rx 5600xt 6gb evo and just found out about SAM. with updated bios, i was able to enabled sam within bios and verified that it is enabled in adrenaline. However, I noticed that benchmarking results using Superposition is lower compared to disabled sam. Checked gpu z and saw that under resizable bar tab, bar0 is only 1000mb and not 6000mb which is the full gpu memory of 5600xt. I cant find anything in the web that can make it 6gb. Hope anyone can enlighten me. Thanks😊
Ok correct me if i am wrong but i think Vega was a bad pick for testing ReBar / SAM since of the HBM memory type i mean, what ReBar could do with the memory that already have a massive bus, almost no latency to the GPU core and massive bandwidth
You've fundamentally misunderstood what ReBAR/SAM is. It does not relate to the GPU memory, but to the manner in which memory data is transferred from the CPU ram across the PCI-e bus to the GPU VRAM.
The big bottleneck in that path is the manner in which data is transferred over the PCI-e bus. In normal operation the GPY VRAM is accessible via a 256MB shifting window. So 256MB of the CPU's address space is *mapped* on top of 256MB of the GPU VRAM. Now if your GPU has more than 256MB ram is where the sliding window aspect comes in. That window or BAR (Base Address Register) can be set to a new offset address. In increments of 256MB of the GPU VRAM size. So to address 8GB of VRAM you need to use at minimum 64 different offsets. In reality it can be more since the BAR need not be 256MB aligned. When performing a lot of VRAM transfers from the CPU the offset of where you want to operate on VRAM has to be updated all the time. Now ReBAR does away with all of this nonsense by just mapping the entire GPU VRAM address space, say all 8GB into a big single address range of the host CPU. This avoids a lot of updating the address of the small BAR 'window'.
I'm wondering how it'd look on an RX 480 4GB or similar.
11 месяцев назад+1
on 4gb sam is no-go**, i tried on 580 4gb via registry hack but after that just driver was crashing and adrenalin app didnt open ** Works only on Linux fine
SAM is supposed to reduce cpu load to gain performance so better test it on a weak cpu You see some significant gains Since sam only supports recent cpus and there are mostly adequate, you will definitely see some confusing results.
AMD gpu have 64 threads per warps vs 32 of nvidia that is why most game engine only use limited 32 and never see any boost just starfield its one who used amd gpu.
You can enable sam on amds regular drivers. It's just a registry change. Ancient gameplay has a video on it and a link to the website to change the registry
With 1000 and 2000 works as well until you dont have shitty Gigabyte motherboards which disables that feature, running sam fine on old 2700 with 6650xt on b450 tomahawk max
What I find most impressive is they bother to develop all these technologies then just throw them in the bin just a generation later. What a waste of time a resources developing new things each time just to bin them off and not improve on them.
ERRATA:
*sigh*
Where to begin?
1. Sorry for the lack of new footage, I accidentally deleted all of my SAM captures 🤦♂
2. As I said in the video, I had already done most of the work on the script and benchmarking before realising NimeZ drivers weren’t the only way of enabling SAM on old Radeons. As a result, the video may be a little more focused on NimeZ than it really needed to be, while breezing over the registry hack. 🤦♂
3. After reading the Guru3D post about SAM - about two hours before the video went live - I now understand that SAM is more useful in CPU-limited scenarios, so my very GPU-intensive and VRAM-intensive benchmarks are probably not exploiting SAM to its fullest. 🤦♂
It is also a pity that there was no mention of "ReBarUEFI", which allows you to activate SAM on Sandy Bridge
Make new video with hyper hr
I made it work with 1st Gen Ryzen Threadripper 1900x and Radeon VII (VEGA GCN cores, 16gb HBM RAM)
1. MSI Kombustor Stress test
Minimum FPS raised from 730 to 749, maximum from 740 to 770 FPS.
2. Temps
After it was successfully enabled, temperatures on both CPU and GPU went up during 3d stress test.
3. Cyberpunk 2077
I noticed that the game wasnt utilizing GPU to the fullest, because it seemed limited to 178 Watts, and CPU was utilized up to 30-35%. So I decreased resolution, GPU power usage went even lower, while CPU usage went up to 60+%. Very strange indeed, so i restored original configuration (4k res, everything on High, FX Fidelity on Balanced) and re-set GPU Voltage to 1.066v (default). Power utilization then went up to about 230 Watts. But still GPU is underutilized and power limited at the same time.
Might as well mention it here that it's worth sending your motherboard manufacturer an email if your board should support SAM but doesn't. Asrock were good enough to send me a beta bios for my old H370. Worked a treat.
Good to know!
Also if for whatever reason the motherboard doesn’t get the option in the bios with a 3x00 series CPUs.
Happened to me with a B550 motherboard with a 3600x also with Asrock. First reply they told me ReBar was only supported on 5x00 series CPUs but when I replied that other brands where supporting it on 3x00 series CPUs they sent me a beta bios that worked fine.
Years ago I bought a board that was supposed to have PCI device visualization support (long old time ago)
I emailed asrock support, they wrote a custom bios just for me.
I stick to asrock now, or did back when I used a PC.
I think with Asrock boards it’s called “clever access memory”
Indeed, ASRock rocks! 😁
The only issue I had was finding the option in the beta BIOS: You need to disable CSM in the boot tab for the option to show under Chipset settings. But CSM is options itself is hidden while fast boot is enabled. Unfortunately I don't own any of the games that benefit a lot, but it's a net benefit and stable without HBCC on Vega, so I'll leave it on.
I've enabled SAM on quite a few GPUs thus far. Aside from my 6000 series cards, I've got it running on a Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse, Powercolor Red Devil Vega56, Asus Strix Vega 64 Crossfire (2 cards), and a Radeon VII. I don't even need to use the NimeZ drivers, all I need to do is add 3 lines to the Windows registry.
EDIT: I see you've mentioned this and showed it... nice!
the point is you WANT to use Nimez drivers. The old cards have no support for tweaks for newer games, which they get through Nimez.
or amernime drivers for hypr-rx for older gpus
what drivers are you uaing for the vega 64 crossfire setup i have 3 in a rig and looking for drivers that work.
@@lejeffe1663 I used the latest AMD drivers and Crossfire works. I've heard of others' experiencing crashing in games but that's not the case for me. I enabled SAM using a registry hack. Perhaps SAM is why mine aren't crashing?
Rx 500 series as well :) polaris vega navi can enable it
Games/engines need to be written in such a manner that it can intentionally or unintentionally take advantage of SAM/ReBar. With AMD giving us this option, I expect newer engines and games to more and more take advantage of this feature if and when it makes sense.
AWOOOGAAA! New episode just dropped!!
You doing the best of old gpu reviews. Thanks for all bro as always good video...
Yeah, him and randomgaminginhd have this shit on lock.
As (former, by now, I guess?) game developer, I can tell you, enabling both "SAM" (ReBAR) and HBCC makes no sense as it contradicts architecturally. The magic of "SAM" is actually in AMD's driver optimisation, without it the perf benefit is 1% at best, similar to Nvidia. So just enabling it in the driver gave exactly the result I was expecting. Sadly, without AMD driver team's work optimising each game, old GPUs won't benefit from SAM. I have looked into what it entails way back when it was unveiled, theoretically the first step is to open up a profiler and look at which calls are bottlenecked by the address space, and add "translations" to full-size ReBAR to only those calls. In essence, this only* happens if the game is loading contiguous chunks of data (usually textures) larger than 512MB which as you might have already guessed, is rare and highly dependent on the game design/engine/code...
To your errata point 3, yes this is true but it's more of a symptom than a cause. If you switch the calls to >512MB chunks it means that the CPU will spend more time on contiguous memory guaranteeing less cache misses, the CPU isn't limited here as much as it's having more stuff to do and is fed it in a way that is more appropriate for the CPU's design. ie. it's not resource limited, but time-limited. If you optimise it well, the CPU has to wait (sleep) less. You don't have to understand the specifics, just know that this is why it's not as easy as saying "SAM will help in CPU-limited games"
*(okay only is a harsh word, but in 99% of cases this is true)
Exactly.
Thanks for that video mate, oh and a bit of a small but distinct chance suggestion; HBCC is EXTREMELY good at teasing out system Ram instability, and triply so with SAM enabled. Ever wondered by default XMP trfc and other sub timings are so looooooose? Things like HBCC+ReBAR are why. I had to set TRC a good 8 points and TRFC 40 points higher than 16 instance memtest 24/7 stable enabling both, to restore game stability. That being said, it's still a wash feature, better to just leave off unless you are struggling with Vram.
I was running NimeZ drivers on my Vega 64 earlier this year to try and squeeze out a little more performance in a few VR games. Didn't really notice much of a difference lol.
Thanks for taking a look though! It's neat stuff to mess with even if it doesn't boost performance in every game.
Same.
thought you were referring to a surface to air missle here. Got really confused on how a Patriot battery would help an old amd card lol
Radeon's biggest weakness has always been attack helicopters imo
@@IcebergTechhaha maybe THAAD is what AMD needs?
Or some Russian S300?
@@IcebergTech ⚡️🚨BREAKING: NATO to donate 2x Patriot SAM batteries and 1x IRIS-T system to help AMD establish a "no Nvidia zone".
"We thank our NATO partners for providing us these systems to helo protrct us from the Green threat. Nvidia cards near AMD will now be shot down immediately." - Lisa Su, AMD CEO
@@bluengold3443
Nvidia:
"How to protect your GPU from a MBT."
I remember using the registry edit to get SAM working with my R5 2600 + RX 580 8GB I used to have lol. So much for it “only” being supported by Zen 3 & RDNA 2 based hardware haha
just befor i sold my rx580 i enabled sam via a modded driver (found on a ancient gameplays channel) it made days gone run much better...
Hello, greetings from Paraguay. I have been following you since 2020, your videos are incredible.
I use SAM + HBCC with a Vega 56 with games that can exceed 8GB with no issues so far. It is very sensitive to system RAM instabilities, so a system that gives a memory stability test error after hours of testing may crash right away with HBCC.
What if you run the GPU on a system that supports ECC memory?
@@greatwavefan397 idk if that would fix it. The D.O.C.P., XMP or Expo profiles of regular RAM may not be 100% stable with HBCC, but there are ways to increase the stability.
Interesting video good sir! Naive me would have assumed that with the nimez drivers with Sam enabled it would have made a noticeable uplift. Keep up the great work!
Yeah, looks like I should probably have thrown in some more CPU-limited tests, lower setiings etc. to really show a difference.
@@IcebergTech It’d be cool if it did help with lower settings. Especially since nimez drivers are mainly used on cards that are getting long in the teeth.
It was likely more intended for low end cards. With 4GB vram or less. But developers never ended up using it.
I wouldn't say so. What you get with BAR resizing is more than 256MB of cohesive memory. You need this type of memory for synchronization primitives which barely need space at all or for some other types of reads back from the GPU but you don't need a larger amount of it to re-upload data to the GPU. It might make it just a little quicker but not by much. Honestly if you're trying to replace a gig of data per frame on a 4GB card like for one WTF are you doing and for other well that's plain not gonna work you don't have the hardware throughput for that, and a little mapping wasn't going to kill you, the mere handful BAR resets it incurs.
I really think the feature is way more relevant with GPUs with lots of VRAM but not relevant yet with current engine architectures.
Goddamn those acronyms. My first thought was how a Surface to Air missile would help my Radeon GPU.....
Fantastic video. Really well executed.
What triggers me: Vega 64 had SAM Support, but AMD removed it with the newer drivers
S.A.M went unavailable after I installed version 24.7.1 on my RX 5700 non XT . I am hoping that it is a bug and not intended.
I am so happy you’re uploading in 1440p60 now! ❤
This is an okay video but I have some gripes with how the testing was conducted and I'll share them one by one:
First, SAM works best under CPU limited scenarios. If you're using it in a scenario where the CPU isn't really a limiting factor for the GPU, then you're not going to see much improvement when using SAM whatsoever.
Second, you don't need to use something that is as bloated as Nimez drivers that has crap that doesn't get removed even when you DDU them. These are for really, really advanced users who knows exactly what they are doing. There was a point and time when Nimez drivers had features exposed to the users with descriptions that were really vague because the NimeZ team themselves didn't know what these options really meant. The easier choice for this is to use an official driver release, and simply use the registry modification.
Third, the Polaris architecture significantly benefits from Resizable Bar. But for it to work, you need to have a 8GB card. It simply won't work on a 4GB card for some reason. There is a workaround for 4GB cards that is NOT recommended. It's better if you use Linux instead. Linux doesn't hide REBAR for older cards like Polaris or VEGA and it works out of the box.
Fourth, not all game benefit from REBAR. While some more CPU demanding games do benefit from them, there will be games that are going to see negative scaling due to REBAR overcommitting.
Fifth and final, consider checking out Linux performance VS Windows performance using a Linux distro like the NobaraOS. You'll be shocked to see that games like Cyberpunk 2077 and Starfield run faster than Windows on Linux!
Could be interesting to see if there's a way to enable hbcc on 1st gen hbm (fury), maybe it could have a higher impact.
Seems like sam like optimised titles tho, so maybe better results with the vulcan api ?
Your last video made me dust off my nitro+ vega64 , and it matched 1080ti in starfield lmao
the vega64 is such a weird card. On paper it has as much power as a 1080Ti, but during its life it was let down by bad AMD drivers and driver optimization. It's only been in a few recent low level API games that it really shines and hits the same as a 1080Ti.
@@XiaOmegaX and the whole compute focused thingy has been abandoned now
I enabled ReBAR on my i5-3550 + RX 470 via some BIOS mods + registry entries. It didn't seem to help with frames in the few tests I ran, but it was nice seeing the slider enabled in Adrenaline!
I think you would have been better off forgetting sam on these older cards and using FSR 3 and frame gen as AMD FSR 3 and frame gen are meant to work on all GPUs and from what I've seen from iGPU like 780M with and without FSR 3 and frame gen is a huge difference in performance and even when using Intel UHD iGPU graphics FSR 3 and frame gen made massive performance gains.
Love the vids
sam helps the ones with 16gb vram . i have it half on lol i say half because the t7920xl caps it at 2gb no matter what . bar one is 256 and the bar 2 2gb which is odd . and when i have it enabled my radeon pro SSG 2 2tb gets a massive boost keeping up with rx 6700xt oc
4:45 PS2 graphics game 1080 Medium, 5:02 NEXT-gen graphics game 1440p Medium, yes, the problem is the old hardware... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
THANK YOU! I forgot to disable CSM after a reset and couldn't figure out where SAM went.
Just installed it on my Vega 56, now it says it is a Vega 64? SAM enabled on B460 board and with i5-10600 should be able to kick ass until RDNA4 or 5 comes along! :D
that uncharted SAM line caught me off guard.
I was able to get REBAR and SAM enabled with my i7-8700k+Vega 64 using a beta BIOS offered by Asrock, but performance was practically identical with all my benchmarks (+/- 1fps or so). Although I had no issues with SAM enabled, I did have issues with having CSM disabled whenever I made any major SW or HW changes. I think this was more attributed to the beta bios and nothing to do with the vega 64, but I saw enough that it just wasn't worth the effort, so I leave CSM enabled now and forgo SAM.
I got good use out of my Vega 56 that I got on launch day. Good GPU for 4.5 years before I upgraded to a RX 6800. Its being used in another home pc for general use/video editing from time to time.
Honestly, my friend Sam is more interested in F1 then computers but I think he’s willing to give it a shot!
I once pointed to an issue in the nimez driver on the 3dguru forum and response was very toxic from multiple people, they called me a clown and said that I have a skill issue because I can't fix the issue by myself, one of them is very close to the dev. Only one person responded nicely but unfortunately it didn't fix my issue. I never visited that forum thread again.
Patriot SAM uses Radeon? Neat! Never knew that.
Quality data we all crave
SAM + HBBC would be awesome to see
Chuuu chuuuu!! Iceberg early in the morning just for me 🤠
Reziezable BAR is supported as long as the cpu is pcie 3.0 supported... But it takes more skill and risk to make a modded bios for your motherboard... I currently have Resiezable bar in my Chinese X79 platform...
I have huananzhi x79 can you send me the tutorial yo do this and has increase fps to you after enable sam
@@bekim137 there is a tutorial in miyconst channel... although it's x99 platform but it still works for the x79... you just need to enable the hidden above 4g decoding...
@@sidex15 thanks i will try
I'm also on x79 and been thinking about modding my huananzhi x79 deluxe with the rebar dxe, is it worth it? And while at the topic of bios modding for chinese x79, is there any mod that makes vcore adjustable in bios? I have an 1650v2 here.
Edit: also using a rx5700 with xt vbios.
@@ZGtx for me not worth it if you can't take the risk... if you didn't enable the Above 4g decoding hidden in bios and you enable the rebar pc would brick unless you put a non supported gpu to undo the changes...
There is a new Driver mod which activates HYPR X on older GPUs , at least with the RX 6000 this should work fine and maybe you get even theFrame Generation boost if its integrated in HXPR X in 1Q24 . This could be a real Game changer , it will downgrade the Picture Quality of course , but maybe it could boost your FPS from 30 FPS native resolution to 70-80 FPS with your old GPU in a l l Games , b u t currently this Feature is limited to RX7000 GPUs .
The FG its gonna use the extra power of AI with FP16 no wonder why its double from FP32 compute unit.
i'd really be interested in trying afmf on my rx 5700, kind of upset it was only on rdna3, then they brought it to rdna2, but i want it on rdna1!!
I remember when I tried to get this on my pc, because you gotta change the os to like UEFI GPT OR MBR, I don’t remember which it was so long ago, but I corrupted my boot drive and lost everything twice. I laughed when I redownloaded the drivers and just checked to see as I just gave up trying at that point, then GUESS what was there, SAM
oh also NimeZ drivers can apparently force HYPR-RX to older GPUs aswell!
thanks for your research man.
Games kind of have to be built around SAM or BAR, starfield had a huge performance increase after the nvidia profile was fixed for BAR
I have an MSI B450M motherboard on my pc and I enabled ResizableBAR on the bios despite using an unsupported gpu (GTX 1050Ti) because why not. And now that I have an RX 5600 XT (same 3 fan Sapphire model you have) and it shows SAM as active on the Radeon drivers. Not gonna bother testing it on vs off as I don't have time and benchmarks I saw have some improvement in some situations or just a wash at times.
On my RX 6600 I've found that when I get near to max VRAM usage with SAM off and if I turn it on the frametime is all over the place.
its actually worth it on a per game basis, especially with fh5, but otherwise(in most cases) you can leave it off with the older amd cards. but for people or budget gamer (i'm one of them lol)with older polaris cards, who are looking for an quick and cheap upgrade, i would say just get the rx 5700(non xt) for around 100-140 bucks(or even a used rx 6600)
it's still a decent 1080p card and it performs not so far off the 2060super and rx6600(non xt)
kinda a funny coincidence, but back in the days(3-4 years ago) everyone was recommending the rx570 for budget gamers and now it's the rx 570(0) :D
Resizeable BAR feature is fundamentally application visible, as any amount of video memory the application requests may be available in cohesive type, as opposed to just a sliding 256MB window being this type.
But cohesive memory may impose more unnecessary checks within the application, which can tank performance.
For this reason i suspect it's actually masked out in the application profile for most games.
it's weird I couldn't enable SAM on the driver since the Adrenalin software literally wouldn't open when Resizable Bar is turned-on in the BIOS.
I've already done the registry key for SAM on the driver but it just wouldn't open when 4G Decoding is enabled.
might try Nimez again once I have the motivation again🤣
I was able to sell my last cpu,mobo, and ram last Friday and upgraded to 7900x. Notice there was SAM on there. Was kind of confused.
I don't know if my motherboard's SAM controller is defective or what, but every time I turn it on my VRAM runs itself up and then the system crashes.
So... like SLI and Crossfire, many games have to be written to make use of SAM and ReBAR?
Timely! Just went back to a single 16GiB Vega 10 (MI25/WX9100). I've been wondering what turning SAM on does for Vega.
i installed amernime modded for my rx580 drivers after ddu clean install and enabled resizable bar and above 4g decoding in my h610 bios and csm is disabled but it still says sam not available in amd radeon software
Assassin's Creed is the poster boy for SAM. You should test Valhalla
I wonder if this can be done on older laptops as some have mxm and work with newer gpus though examples of said gpu in mxm format are rare.
You really should overclock the memory for best performance. I have benchmarks to take proper advantage of Vega. That would greatly help Vega since the memory is a MASSIVE bottleneck on Vega.
After having a 56 and 64, I would agree. I used to love to tweak these cards to get the most as possible. Without the BIOS flash, I was able to get my 56 to keep up with the 64.
Even if the frame rate drops a bit, does it help with stuff like texture pop-in?
Odd...
I have R5-2600 paired with my RX6650XT and it has enabled SAM by default, it would seem.
Despite the requirement of a Ryzen 5000 series CPU.
No modded drivers or anything. Asus Prime B450-Plus.
I just went in and took a look.
I know that it's disabled on my other build with a R5-3600, but that's because it requires a BIOS update (mobo is still running factory BIOS; Asus TUF B450 Plus-II Gaming)
To be fair, it could be it's because of the RX 6650XT cards I have.
I think the information in the video was incorrect, I think Zen+ and newer paired with a 5000+ series card is able to enable SAM.
Yes it works on zen+, i have 6650xt asrock one and r7 2700@4ghz and sam works just fine after i enabled rbar in bios after update to latest one and disabled csm
I'll just put this here but when these Resisable BAR was being features in new GPUs t was widely understood that AMDs implementation of ReBAR (SAM) was better then nvidias. Intel also benefits a lot from it too. Hence the marketing as SAM (Radeon marketing actually doing something good vs nvidia for once who have thought.)
SAM when working well only gains 5 to 10 frams!
Were the non-SAM enabled benchmarks also with Nemez drivers?
while you have those drivers installed, are you aware they allow Hyper-RX on any older amd GPU aswell now? give it a go, I have it running on my 6800XT, looks n runs great
Seems like margin of error mostly
Luckily, The z370 Aorus Gaming 7 had rebar in a BIOS update.
Thank you.
Does this work with rx 580 8gb with 5600? I have enabled everything but cant enable it on amd adrenaline
of course if it wasn't designed with SAM you aren't gonna get an increase with that placebo effect
do you need a new cpu for this? i have 3900x and 5700xt setup, i have sam turned on, but it barely makes a difference
Doesn't seem to make a difference for RDNA1.
nope, works on zen1 or zen+ even
*Good stuff*
Who is Sam and why are they trying to save my graphics card
why did you only test console ports? they force limit there games FPS depending on card gen, doesnt matter what you do it wont change the FPS at all, why are using them? i dont get it...
Should I update my bios to enable ReBar? i3 8100 and rx 6700 xt (dont judge me I didnt have money for cpu and mobo at the time)
Give it a try cuz you loose nothing from testing.
Can I ask that you put your game rig specs down below the video?
Man if someone can help to understand this...
I have a Ryzen 7 5700G, Rx 5600XT, when I enable SAM I get a huge loss in fps. I can add more info for anyone who has questions.
I have an Intel Xeon E5-2660v3 paired with RX 5600 XT. I got my REBAR enabled. 🤫
are you using one of the chinese x79 boards? was thinking of doing an older xeon build like this.
Saw this after I sold my old rx 460 😢
P.S. I used it for 7 years mostly without any problems
Surface to Air Missile?
Sam Carter?
I got an asus tuf rx 5600xt 6gb evo and just found out about SAM. with updated bios, i was able to enabled sam within bios and verified that it is enabled in adrenaline. However, I noticed that benchmarking results using Superposition is lower compared to disabled sam. Checked gpu z and saw that under resizable bar tab, bar0 is only 1000mb and not 6000mb which is the full gpu memory of 5600xt. I cant find anything in the web that can make it 6gb. Hope anyone can enlighten me. Thanks😊
wake up honey, new iceberg video
HBCC that's a new one for me, is there anything like it for 5600xt?? EDIT asked & answered - I watch this vid first my bad✌👍
Still... upgrade is needed
interesting video! the AMD fanboy in me is satisfied
Ok correct me if i am wrong but i think Vega was a bad pick for testing ReBar / SAM since of the HBM memory type
i mean, what ReBar could do with the memory that already have a massive bus, almost no latency to the GPU core and massive bandwidth
You've fundamentally misunderstood what ReBAR/SAM is. It does not relate to the GPU memory, but to the manner in which memory data is transferred from the CPU ram across the PCI-e bus to the GPU VRAM.
The big bottleneck in that path is the manner in which data is transferred over the PCI-e bus.
In normal operation the GPY VRAM is accessible via a 256MB shifting window. So 256MB of the CPU's address space is *mapped* on top of 256MB of the GPU VRAM. Now if your GPU has more than 256MB ram is where the sliding window aspect comes in. That window or BAR (Base Address Register) can be set to a new offset address. In increments of 256MB of the GPU VRAM size. So to address 8GB of VRAM you need to use at minimum 64 different offsets. In reality it can be more since the BAR need not be 256MB aligned. When performing a lot of VRAM transfers from the CPU the offset of where you want to operate on VRAM has to be updated all the time.
Now ReBAR does away with all of this nonsense by just mapping the entire GPU VRAM address space, say all 8GB into a big single address range of the host CPU. This avoids a lot of updating the address of the small BAR 'window'.
I'm wondering how it'd look on an RX 480 4GB or similar.
on 4gb sam is no-go**, i tried on 580 4gb via registry hack but after that just driver was crashing and adrenalin app didnt open
** Works only on Linux fine
SAM is supposed to reduce cpu load to gain performance so better test it on a weak cpu You see some significant gains
Since sam only supports recent cpus and there are mostly adequate, you will definitely see some confusing results.
AMD gpu have 64 threads per warps vs 32 of nvidia that is why most game engine only use limited 32 and never see any boost just starfield its one who used amd gpu.
In my driver its just called Resizeable Bar weirdly.
That's what its called.
@@GoonyMclinux not exactly. SAM is like 3 things, one of which is resizable bar. I think. I'm probably wrong.
You can enable sam on amds regular drivers. It's just a registry change. Ancient gameplay has a video on it and a link to the website to change the registry
2:30 I thought you were supposed to use legacy ASIC instead
Does Sam works on A320 mobos ?
What about an R9 390(X)?
♥
Sam also works on ryzen 3000 cpus
With 1000 and 2000 works as well until you dont have shitty Gigabyte motherboards which disables that feature, running sam fine on old 2700 with 6650xt on b450 tomahawk max
@AdrianSzymanskiXDAndroid funny enough I have it working on 2 gigabyte motherboards.
I could try to do this with my vega 56 and 5600x bought for a total of £470, but if I brick them I'd have to pay £700 for the same performance. Nope.
could hbcc be good for mods i wonder.
I wonder if we see how gtx 980 can hold with dlss 3
You mean FSR3
Revisit RTX 3060 Ti please
What I find most impressive is they bother to develop all these technologies then just throw them in the bin just a generation later. What a waste of time a resources developing new things each time just to bin them off and not improve on them.
Will Sam work for 5500xt
yeah