Handling vs Grip - And A Long Discussion About The Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0L (Ultimate Waffle!)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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In today's video I am taking the Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0 out for a drive, and talking a little bit how I felt it and the Cayman fall short of the standard set by Porsche's previous cars.
#Porsche #Boxster #GTS4.0L
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Since years on that platform :-D But thank you for the offer :-D
Nice Jay!! I’m glad skillshare are sponsoring you.
Jay, what’s your height? Aren’t you too tall for the Boxster?
Are there any sports cars that are the complete package? Steering, sound, gearing, weight etc
Just get too it please “ Too much useless chatter .
12:54 What you’re hearing is the engine switching off 3 of the 6 cylinders (for that great MPG). You can turn that feature off using the Auto Stop/Start button (not the Exhaust button).
I find it weird that I know this too, and I never drove a GTS 4.0. I'd expect a professional car reviewer to do a bit more research. Both this, and the previous review of the Cayman feel biased. First one, maybe due to having a bad day. This one seems to be meant to support the conclusions of the first one.
@@claudiu7219 Firstly, James is a professional. He carries himself with utmost integrity and honesty so there's no question of that. I doubt Porsche mention the cylinder deactivation causes a weird droning noise so how would one know unless you really think about it? You've both made a very good observation for figuring out why that noise occurred but lets not get on someone for not knowing a small detail.
I test drove one of these today. For comparison I once owned a 981 Boxter which I loved, a car that really did flow over UK roads. I currently own a 992 C4S which is mighty impressive but have been wondering whether this new, much vaunted Boxter GTS would be good enough to persuade me to swap. In short, the 4.0 litre engine is a complete gem, such character and instant punch in a turbocharged age (and what a noise!); the handling is pure mid-engined Boxter - I experienced no skipping; the ride may be slightly firmer than the 981 which is no great surprise given the extra punch but wasn’t actually uncomfortable. The steering is probably amongst the better electric systems and I was more than happy with its weighting and accuracy. The only issue I had was the interior which works fine but is a step back in time from the 992. All told, it is now a very tough decision!
Go on then, did you swap?
@@tb-cg6vd Everyone needs a 303!
@@ianedmonds9191 They surely do! And a Porsche!
Just get a 335d and remap it 🥳
Fun vs good looking huge status symbol
The "helper springs" talked about in the Video are also called "Vorspannfeder" (loosely translated as "Preload Spring"). The main job is to take on the static load of the vehicle. So when the car is adjusted on the ground, the spring is mostly fully compressed. That gives you a) the room to use the mainspring to its full extend (as the load of the vehicle doesn`t compress the mainspring when there is a "preload spring") and b) it helps when the car jumps for example to control the load and seating of the main spring. So mostly you get aware of the existence just in Rebound. Some manufacturers use "progressive springs". They have a tighter part that does the job of the "helper spring" and the main part for driving similar to a "normal" mainspring. - There are also dampers that can work very well with the normal spring sets (like Koni`s Frequency Selective Damping for example). So you can combine something to your liking, you just need to know what you are doing.
This. And the reference to Renault Sport is for the hydrolic bumpstops they have in the dampers, I guess.
I realised the mistake too, but your explanation was better than mine would have been 👍🏻
So widely misunderstood.
Not entirely though.
There are setups where the sitter spring is not intended to be fully compressed under static load. This gives a short bit of compression to absorb smaller bumps without upsetting the chassis while also allowing a firmer platform for handling.In production cars this has expressed as progressive rate springs. These are or were expensive and difficult to tune so they were left to the OEMs. Aftermarket either went dual spring or single rate.
2nd post - gotta say, you've relaxed into a style of presentation that you are clearly comfortable with, the whole "show" is getting better with every video.
Love how genuine and honest your reviews are
But he doesn’t seem to like other’s honest reviews.
@@MasterMalrubius why do you think that?
@@MasterMalrubius what hasn't Jaame liked about others reviews?
I think Jay and Thomas of Autogefuhl are the best I’ve seen.
The best description of handling I have heard is that good handling gives you predicable outcomes. It's not about grip, lightness or power, it's about you being able to go around the same corner at the same speed time after time.
I genuinely enjoy these long chat style videos with a more technical focus. I think I may even prefer this style.
The strange engine sound you don’t like is when it’s running on 3 cylinders. It does this to improve the fuel consumption. When I test drove a Cayman GTS 4.0 it seemed to me that it disables that mode when the car is in put sport mode. Ride wise I was happy with the car I tested, it felt similar to my 987 Boxster S which I think has a good ride for a sports car.
Yup. Came here to write this.
Yep I have the 4.0 and it is when it goes to 3 cylinders and it is stopped by turning stop start off. Ride is quite supple and comfortable considering it is a sports car. In actual fact everyone who has been in the car comments how comfortable it is and forgiving. The Pirelli tyres are awful. Michelin’s PS4s are going on shortly!
The car simply shuts the exhaust valves between 2k and 4k regardless of throttle position or drive mode.
This is to pass drive by noise regs around the world.
It makes the strange noises at these speeds due emissions equipment. The same noises occur on small / larger throttle openings, running on 3 or 6.
@@cartherapy718 I liked the car a lot from the short drive I had. I thought the steering feel wasn’t as good as my 987 but I’m sure you’d get used to it. What do you think of the car? I’m considering getting a Boxster GTS.
@@bluebristolian I looked at all sorts. Have had 2 987 Boxsters. Was going to go for a 981 Spyder but couldn’t find the one I wanted. Talking to dealer and they had the exact spec in showroom so deal done on the CGTS. It is brilliant. Steering it brilliant, yes different I guess but turn in is excellent and engine is great. Turn stop/start off and it is fine! Take the vacuum pipes off and seal and the exhaust is great! Not as noisy as the 981 and doesn’t make all the pops but that was too much in the 981. It is a great all rounder, it’s fast comfortable and looks great. Was split between cayman and Boxster but this was the spec I wanted and it happened to be in the cayman!
I often find myself disagreeing with you, and sometimes get a bit annoyed. But I keep coming back and watching your reviews as I appreciate and respect your honesty. Keep doing what you're doing mate.
The big magazines really like Porsches they just give them all five stars yet the next model is always better somehow. Very disappointing. It's a good job people like you are honest and actually find flaws in the car rather than giving them all 10/10 best car ever.
The best way to get an honest review from a mainstream reviewer is to wait until a car has been superseded and they'll tell you what was so wrong about it while praising the new model they are now driving. If a car is no longer available new, you can be honest without upsetting the brand, and therefore not be given anymore cars to review. Can't bite the hand that feeds.
@@christophersapsford1828 yeah that's absolutely true. I sometimes watch or read them thinking damn the old model was 5/5 or 10/10, now you are saying all these things were wrong with it and the new model was better. So it never was 10/10 they just lied XD
They did used to almost never give 5 star reviews. When I used to read Autocar, they maybe gave 1-2 cars a 5 star review out of a whole year and it had to be best in class and better than anything before it ever was. Now it seems they'll give out 5 stars every issue, and porcshe or Ferrari is automatically 5 stars. Pathetic tbh.
Jay, after that interesting rant it would be really good if you could list your Top10 "steering feel" cars that you've driven so far.
That way there's more of a chance we may have driven one of them and thus have a baseline for your comments on other cars to compare with.
Thanks for posting!
Great Idea. Please do
Second this! Please do one on steering feel
This is a great video and discussion about handling and ride. You seem to be the only RUclipsr who dares, about Porsche not being absolutely perfect.
The OG M2 used to do that skipping on uneven surfaces. Wasn’t a problem on a straight or at slower speeds just made it feel fun. But a fast sweeper somewhere in Wales or Scotland and it can make you feel a little nervous like it’s going to step out on you for no real reason
Yes those can be a little sketchy under power. Not ideal!
The GTS 4.0 never does any of that shenanigans though.
Utter traction regardless is amazing and is aided partly by the longer ratios.
Your consistency of content is second to none. Feels like everyday you’re releasing something new, that can’t be easy but the work rate is appreciated.
It's not, and thankyou for noticing :)
I AM glad you said Porsche not Porsche A
@@hobojon44 that's the wrong way. It's two syllables, and the "e" at the end is pronounced as a schwa. It is a proper name (family surname in this case) and the proper pronunciation is approximately "Poor-scha". "Porsch" is objectively wrong; there is no circumstance in which the one-syllable pronunciation is correct.
This is one of your best videos yet and that's saying something!
You explained everything in an easy to understand way and really elaborated on the reasoning behind your views on the car, which most reviewers rarely do. I feel you would have taught a few petrolheads about the suspension workings and technical aspects too
Very, very well done!
I always put your opinion of handling and feel above other journalists since you drive the cars exactly like normal people do on the road. Is it possible if you can give a scale or leaderboard of driving feels of cars you’ve tested? I’d be so curious to see how cars of different eras and different performance levels compare.
The two tone (droning) exhaust note you mention @ circa 13.00mins is the cylinder deactivation and swapping banks of cylinders to maintain catalytic converter temps. You can switch this off by turning off 'start/stop'.
Hi, I think that ”Boouhh” sound you talk about is because the engine shuts cylinder from 6 to 4 depending the drivesituation. In 4 cylinder mode the enginge makes that sound. Push the start/off button. In ”off” setting the engine allways run 6 cylinder. I think the sound gos away…
James, u never got around to comparing this to the 981 Boxster GTS you drove earlier. Your thoughts?
Complements to your audio setup. Your voice is very clear even though the top is down. Really enjoyed this video.
Thankyou
@@JayEmmOnCars can you share what mic are you using?
A 'dead kitten' makes a huge difference.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Jay just doesn’t like Porsches, but that’s ok, that’s why there are different manufacturers. Besides, someone has to keep the Lotus repair shops in business.
But I've owned a couple and loved many - so I think that's an odd conclusion to draw?
Porsche is superior to Lotus in every way. They are the benchmark for sports cars and always will be.
@@derekbrettell8121 Having owned both, you are wrong. Look up EVO Car of the Year 2009 to see just how good a Lotus is.
My impression is that he is always a little disappointed that they are not always as good as they should be.
@@derekbrettell8121 Sweeping generalisation, have you been reading EVO solidly? I have owned 2 911's and a Boxster and I wouldn't put any of them in the top 3 cars I have owned.
If you want a brand new sports car - this is the one to buy ! Warranty, latest tech, awesome engine.
I doubt you will even look grumpy when driving it !
Those roads are great. I especially like the one that goes from...no, it's our little secret.
Interesting
I know where he is when the video starts and I know where it ends but I didn't recognize any of the villages in the middle bit I know some really horrible narrow roads are in the area too.
@@baheh1801 Where are these roads?
Re: Weight. EU regulations require manufacturers to post the weight of their cars based on the prior year’s most popular specification of options selected. Which means it’s not specific to the actual car. Which means the specified weight is for a car likely has power adjustable seats. PDK. And lack ceramic rotors. And other options. At least some of these specifications are quite different from the typical press car.
All fluids, and the fuel tank needs to be either entirely full, or some thing like 90% full.
I don’t remember the specs of the cayman, nor am I defending either set of figures, but these regulations do create quite a bit of room for disparity in figures.
Yes they do. Not that much disparity.
@@JayEmmOnCars I still think it’s possible. PDK is 75-80lbs. Ceramics are ~45lbs. Bucket seats ~35lbs. There’s 150lbs there. Less fuel could be 20-40lbs. Wheels and tires? Probably a wash but could be up to 5lbs a corner.
@@kylem324 Harry’s figure is definitely possible.
I am picking up my Boxster GTS 4.0 from the Porsche HQ this week. The Porsche vibe is much more to my style than anything else. I've had a 981 Cayman S and my only complaint was the lack of power. Besides that, the 981 was fully brilliant.
the difference between a Boxster S owner and a reviewer is that an owner wouldnt drive their car through a muddy puddle. lol
An interesting perspective - thank you. I'm the owner of a 981 Boxster S with PASM and 20" alloys and I'd like to question a couple of your main points about the 718 GTS 4.0 (and I have no axe to grind, as mine is the earlier model).
I'm not clear from your review which PASM was fitted to the car you were driving. The Sport PASM (-20 mm) is quite firm and the 'normal' PASM (-10 mm) is more compliant. The Sport PASM looks better in press photos, so I suspect the car had Sport PASM, which is the standard fit on the GTS 4.0. Normal PASM is a no cost option (and the one I would go for). I have normal PASM on my 981 and it rides well at low speed.
My second question is regarding your view on the tyres fitted to the car. It sounds like you've already had people telling you that the Pirelli's are rubbish (which they are), but perhaps I can elaborate. The Pirelli PZero N0 tyres I had fitted to my 981 were amazing if the ambient temperature was above 20 deg C. They were very grippy and the sidewalls had a very nice compliance that worked well with the suspension. However, in lower temperatures, the sidewalls behaved as if they were run flats. At really low temperatures they felt like they were absolutely solid. I know Porsche will have worked with Pirelli on the development of the tyre, but in my view they got it very wrong for Northern European countries who spend most of the year well below 20 deg C. I replaced the Pirelli's when they were only half worn and decided to go with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s which are known to have a more compliant sidewall. They transformed the car across all ambient temperatures, and as an added bonus are also much quieter.
Just my tuppence worth, and do keep up the good work!
I’ve just spent 3 years in a GTS with -20mm chassis. The harder mode essentially locked out the dampers. Track mode would be a better description.
The normal road never skipped and was always comfortable.
Even my Mum thought so!
I now have a -10mm GTS and both modes are road calibrated.
Normal is really compliant and even the firmer setting won’t ‘skip’ on B-Roads.
The -10mm is lovely in the UK.
Was this the old 2.5 GTS?
@@JayEmmOnCars
Morning,
-20mm was 2.5 yes.
Normal was brilliant.
Sport mode just launched the car vertically.
Now have a -10mm 4.0 and both modes feel great on road. Much more suitable for B-roads.
Normal is really comfortable.
Firm is still compliant enough to react to higher frequency lumps and bumps.
I’ve never had any of the skipping, like most BMW’s with runflat tyres seem to do generate. If that’s the trait you were suffering from?
Surrey B-roads are no picnic either 🙈
@@DontPanicDear What tyres are you on out of interest?
@@JayEmmOnCars
The 2.5 came with P-Zero, which I changed to PS4S after a year. Massive improvement in everything really.
The 4.0 luckily arrived with PS4S fitted 🤓
@@DontPanicDear Again, as mentioned in the video, I've experienced quite dramatic differences between tyres but the unfortunate problem is if Porsche UK insist on saying the P Zeros are "right" then that's how I have to judge it!
I think most people completely misunderstand what a helper spring does. In almost all driving the helper spring is Completely Compressed and does nothing with respect to suspension dynamics. The helper spring is there for when you get the car very, very light and the suspension is in full droop. In this situation, the helper spring extends / becomes decompressed to keep the main suspension spring pinned against its lower perch so the main spring doesn't come off of this perch or rotate on it.......which can be very, very bad. Got it folks ? I agree with you. Most newer sporty cars suffer from too stiff suspension, too low profile tires, and too high 'required' tire pressures.
I’m ~6k miles in with a Cayman 4.0 so probably one of the higher milers. Interesting review and I think the difference is you are assessing in isolation in many ways, identifying what is ‘wrong’ with the car. In that context it’s fair comment. For me my GTS is the most expensive car I’ve had so is a high point. My previous car was an M2 and in comparison the cayman is a much more sophisticated affair. I love the steering, much prefer it to the M2 which was ‘sticky’ about the straight ahead and didn’t have anything like the feel. I had an Elise, S2 K series, and know what you mean about feeling the road from that car but I really wouldn’t want it in my Cayman which I use more as a general car than a weekend blaster. Ride I find is excellent on the road, I have the 10mm option, but the handling is far more balanced than the M2 was, it doesn’t frighten me in the same way. Clearly you drive many more cars than me and are a great reviewer, I tend to drive as I find and enjoy what I’m in, but for me the Cayman 4.0 is a really fine fun general car to drive, I personally don’t want a super focussed race car for the road and this car really is special. Strangely my biggest issue is with the Porsche experience, I find everything about owning the car inferior to the BMW experience I’ve had for 8 previous years. I just feel the whole thing is about how much cash they can get out of you, good cars but the experience is led by marketing people whose priority is profit generation. Also the in car systems are inferior.
Interesting. I have a manual m2C and am waiting for my allocation on a GTS. There are flaws in the m2 that I hope the Porsche overcomes. I'm assuming I will really enjoy it. (daily driver, cruiser, not a track guy).
@@S2kTi hi, I think you will really enjoy the GTS. The M2 is more of a visceral experience in that if you press it there is always that feeling it wants to kill you, I would add I found that fun. The Porsche as I say above is more sophisticated and is a much more controlled drive. I did a Porsche club Oulton park track day and loved the precision of the car. I’m certain you will love it. I’m up at 12,000 miles in 18 months so do drive as you suggest, using the car for regular long trips. I see in excess of 30mpg on a long trip if I’m pootling along, I got 28-29 in the M2 in similar circumstances.
6:01
Henry Metcalf......
I've searched for his channel but it didn't come up 😁
I know. I'm inventing reviewers now
@@JayEmmOnCars you can do as you please sir! 😁
Just keep the brilliant videos coming. We respect your opinion. Best car channel 👍🏻
Maybe he was serious. Harry's Garage for Harry and Carfection for Henry.
@@markburton5170 I searched for Harry Catchpole and nothing came up either
Henry Catchpole is on Carfection. Harry Metcalfe is on Harry's Garage. They are both excellent car reviewers.
Boxsters are brilliant; they’re so chuckable. Look after them well, and they’re great fun. Love to try one of these, though!
Excellent review, excellent teaching, always improving, keep it up!! From and enthusiast for 30 years, all this "feel" stuff matters. It matters not only from a joy of driving standpoint, but also from a perspective of mutual communication from both car and driver, which leads to a better experience AND often better lap times of that's what you're going for.
I don’t need negatives about another channel when the other channel doesn’t make negative statements of others.
I think you misunderstood the point I was making
Jay love your content, but perhaps you exaggerate the pitfalls of the Porsches and forget about the compromises of your “benchmark” cars. Ownership experience is something you seldom talk about. Some cars offer a great experience 80% of the time and some others an amazing one but just 10% of the time. (I am both a lotus and Porsche owner and have gone both through the high and lows of both).
It is certainly something I have discussed - particularly when driving big wafty barges
10:14 would love to hear more about this one day! love your videos and always appreciate how honest your reviews are :) watching all way from NZ
It doesn’t sound like the 4.0 is worth 30k over the 2.5
100% agree, My one thing.
Tyre pressure is one of the most annoying things for me.
A combination of vendor and a couple PSI the wrong way can make a car feels pants. BMW's in particular for me.
I wasn't expecting this from something you titled "- and a long discussion about...", but I just watched one of your best videos yet!
Glad you enjoyed!
Jay, have you considered making a top 10 list cars to buy by you?
I've seen most of your reviews but I couldn't figure out which ones you think are worth considering.
Disagree with your thoughts on the Cayman / Boxster GTS. I’ve had many 911’s, Ferrari’s, TVR’s, Lotus etc etc….for me, the Cayman GTS is one of the most engrossing sports cars I’ve owned. Also had a 991 Boxster GTS, brilliant soft top sports car. These are better sports cars than the 911 variants, which are now too big, too heavy and not that exciting to drive. We’re all different though! Love your content by the way! 😊
Fully agree and compare to 911, you save money and can buy also a Macan of s a daily in addition 😂
Henry metcalf? Anyhow, I’m sure Porsche will appreciate your honesty as you do represent the kind of driver most likely to own one of these Boxsters. As you say, we are not all driving gods like Henry and Harry. Thoroughly enjoyed this 35 minute rant 😂👍🇬🇧
Has Harry met Henry ?
Ok so pretty late coming to this video, but the wife drives performance cars. Previous cars have included a Nissan 350z, Aston Martin Vanquish and DB9, and a couple of BMW Z4's. And the car she says is the best car she has ever owned for handling, grip, and overall feel is the Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0L which she has been driving for over a year. And says it still makes her smile every time she takes it for a drive, which is at least once a week
The 4.0 flat six is an iconic engine, thoroughbred superior NA engine, it is better than the newer forced induction engines in the Porsche stable. The flat six 4.0 looks like the last temptations for an NA engine as most car makers have buried the whole idea in favour of blowers. I will hedge my money on the Cayman version.
It was Lotus
After buying in excess of 11 cars, 2 brand new (all from approved Lotus dealerships) I’m no longer interested. Fabulous handling and steering feel but that is it! Very expensive, slow and poor performance for both the looks and cost! Now they are talking about 100% electric ⚡️
No thanks
Porsche, never owned a Boxster but I’ve had both the Cayman S (2006) and a 997 C2 (911), very different to drive, the Cayman felt like a grown up Lotus Exige S, (1.8) as opposed to the newer V6 model. Great feel and balance but I prefer the 911 by a long way, it felt as good as a car can
High praise from me
Lets be honest, Porsche is far superior than Lotus. I don't know why anyone would choose a Lotus over a Porsche 🤷♂️ its as good as it gets for a sports car
@@derekbrettell8121
Handling and feel are far superior in a Lotus. Build quality, reliability, durability, prestige goes to Porsche.
@@1970boggy sorry but I don't get the interest in Lotus. I wouldn't put them anywhere near Porsche in any aspect. Id love to like them but I just can't I'm afraid
@@derekbrettell8121
Fair enough Derek 👍
I personally wouldn’t buy another now as there cars don’t fit my criteria. The Evora is in the category but simply isn’t powerful or fast enough.
@@derekbrettell8121 Try reading EVO Car of the Year 2009. Lotus beating the 997 GT3 should get your attention.
Porsche's are setup for German smooth roads, so are always compromised in the UK.
Shame they don't modify them for different markets, like putting the steering wheel on the right side... Oh, wait....
I am constantly torn between keeping my Macan and getting a Boxster. But I think my Macan is better suited for the rough roads I like. And I think that may be the case, here, too. Those roads are barley suitable for an ox cart. JMHO, of course. I also think it takes some getting used to the electronic aid in a Porsche. Not everyone understands what the car wants. Once you do it all makes sense. Understeer is the result of entering a corner too slow and getting on the gas too early. Run in hard on the brakes and point it at the corner exit before getting on the gas. Let the rear finish the corner.
Handling is how the chassis behaves on the absolute limits of adhesion.... it's what happens when the grip runs out..... it's about how well balanced a car is ( weight distribution ). It's a kind of neutral feeling.... it's about how well the car can use it's tyres..... a well balanced, good handling car, will generate higher levels of natural grip..... it's also about lightness..... a heavy car generally will not handle as well as a light one and will put more strain on it's tyres...... drive an S1 Elise and Range Rover SVR..... to most people who don't know, they would say that the Range Rover has good handling because it has a lot of grip from it's big wide tyres....... good handling is that tiny point between understeer and oversteer, right on the edge of adhesion where the right car just feels so right!
Then there's a good driver..... a good driver understands about weight shift - how to get the car weighted over the driven axle, to get the car through a corner faster...... under acceleration, weight goes to the back of the car and under braking it goes to the front..... that's just the laws of physics but knowing how a car will react to weight shift and using that to your advantage is what makes a good driver great...... a good driver also knows that suspension geometry changes under acceleration, under braking and under cornering..... which also changes the tyres contact patch with the road..... when the car is going along a motorway, it will have the biggest contact patch but when it is cornering, the contact patch is much smaller....... these are things that come with experience and they don't teach you in the driving test...... add in a wet road and you have a recipe for disaster but that's another topic...... safety is the main reason why cars are gaining weight and have bigger wheels with wider / lower profile tyres for better grip...... a lot of the feel has been lost by losing the side wall...... Jay talked about compliance and that is what modern tyres do not have much of anymore due to smaller stiffer side walls, meaning the suspension has to now do a lot more work than it used to.
I agree with your comment..that modern heavier safer (more airbags) cars with their very big/wide ultra low profile tires, does increase the cars ultimate grip when cornering and braking, but does absolutely nothing positive for how the car handles on the limit of its adhesion, help the cars compliance on "B" type roads.
@@Mexxx65 Yes a lot of modern cars are what I'd call over tyred. In that the tyre has more grip than the chassis can cope with. So when they do breakaway, they breakaway very fast.
The Porsche line is the best in the world, Never heard of a bad one ..Oh wait my friend had a 914 that spent more time broken and in the shop so there is that....anyway the best...
James, for people who would be keen to review cars, it would be great if you could do a video where you list the best cars (as reference points) to compare specific qualities that affect the driving experience. For example: Alpine A110+Lotus Evora for best suspension dampening, S2000+Porsche Cayman GT4 for best gear shift feel, McLaren 570S+Lotus Evora for best steering feel etc.
Hi Jay, not sure if you'll see this because the video is a little old now, but full respect for the honest feedback about one of the best sports cars available. You tried the Boxster after the Cayman and gave both cars a fair go. Can't ask for more than that.
People should not be complaining about somebody else's opinion especially regarding the engine/exhaust sound and steering feel. These two factors have been going backwards after the brilliant 997/987 generation and has been well documented by many car journos. This is not Porsche's fault. We can blame government regulations for these things. The future electric cars will be even more muted and blunt again.
Hi James, your right about how some cars work best when driven hard, i just a replaced the bushings, bearing and suspension on my NA mx5 and its not all that great slow around town , but on the track it really comes alive and handles amazing at full chat...sadly just this saturday at my local track i blew my engine....ho hum...hahaha...great video mate
Great review JayEmm. Regarding the suspension, Porsche is a German car, and German roads are so much smoother than British roads. I agree about the Sports suspension setting, with my 987.1 Cayman S I only use it on motorways or good A roads. I also agree about the ‘agressive’ throttle response in Sport mode, I have scared myself a few times!
That rumble you feel and hear is because of cylinder deactivation only when auto start stop is on. Turn it off (button light ON), and it’ll go away. Also, have you checked the alignment of the car? I know it gets thrashed around so if camber or toe is off, even while tracking straight, the feel / response can be very different. I’ve had both 718 GTS and currently GT4 and alignment made tremendous change to the dynamics and feel of the cars. Also, when I first bought these two cars, I admit that I was not as wowed as you as well. It took me a while to really notice a “Porsche”. And consequently, ruined other performance cars I got into afterwards.
Well that solves one mystery.
As alignment goes - see my argument about the tyres, Porsche UK gave the car out so up to them to set it up right, which I am sure they do
One of the best pieces of motoring journalism I’ve seen in a long time.
I'm pleased to see Jay explaining the difference between grip and handling, for example the humble Morris Minor on 135 tyres has low levels of grip compared to modern cars but with it's steering feel and well designed suspension is a pleasurable car to drive.
I have a totally different opinion to you ,ref the minors driveability ,I find it to be very skittish above 110 mph .You can make it far more drivable by taking the torsion bars up notch or two ! .
@@geraldswain3259 110 mph, lol, I'm talking about the standard 1098cc 48BHP car that tops out at 78MPH. Not a good idea to move the torsion bars because that has the effect of cutting suspension travel and lowering only the front of the car.
What about checking/changing the tyre pressures? Recommended values are often too much for real roads..
Doubling up on comments here, but throttle response I think is a terminology issue. To me, response means how quickly the engine power changes with pedal movement- not how the pedal is mapped to power input. By that definition, a throttle can't be too responsive since you want it to exactly match your input. However, it can be mapped badly and too twitchy if 5% pedal movement = 50% power, and that can also be not responsive if for example a car has turbo lag. That combination is a particularly fun one.
Love the in depth exploration of the tradeoffs of geo and damping etc. I didn't mind the suspension too much on this car. I just didn't feel enough through the steering. I can understand why some might like more comfortable steering but I always like more feedback and a stiffer setup.
Don’t add power steering plus, you’ll get more feeling without it.
The problem we have in the UK is that our roads are shit and most cars are made for much better roads in other countries.
Which would make sense if the cars received were all LHD... But, having gone to the expense of moving across the steering, the pedal box, and reconfiguring hte interior; it is beyond their wit to make some damping changes?
Also worth noting that, when off the 'highways' many roads in France, Spain, Austria, and most of Eastern Europe are just as uneven and harsh as many across the UK; so it's not necessarily that the UK roads are 'worse', but that the cars are not designed for real roads, only highways - see also, lack of 'unnecessary' steering feel on a broad, straight road.
Another part of the prolem is budget cuts, manufacturers used to ship a 'global' car and the UK importers or dealers would then fit specifics like upgraded stereos, sunroof, suspension, even aero kits (and in certain cases, were responsible for RHD headlights), which no longer seems to happen.
Dry weight (Italians, without gas or any other fluids, usually -100kg, or even -110kg) vs 'curb weight' vs DIN (Germans, +75kg, applies to Porches, BMWs) Harry's weight was probably 'curb weight' with less than max fluids, probably less than half tank of gas
This! Harry’s weight is definitely close to real driving weight, 20-30% fuel so pretty accurate with the weight.
Great video. I loved my mildly modified 996 GT3 and one of the highlights was the fantastic steering feel. Agree with your comments about the Ferrrari 355. I hired one in the early 2000's and loved the performance, the looks, the noise, a quite brilliant gearchange and the ride/handling was generally good but just let down by an overlight, lifeless steering.
I really love your closing theme and graphics mate! Also, thanks for the well reasoned defense and continued effort to bring us these great reviews. 🙏
No a helper Spring is softer and is normaly totaly compressed. She will only work when car is lifting and it will help to keep the wheel on the ground as it will be faster than normal spring.
It does have auto hold. To engage it you have to press the brake pedal down deeply when stationary.
On the suspension, you can play around with settings, including setting up an “Individual” mode. To avoid the sloppiness/skipping you refer to when pushing on through the corners on uneven roads, set the dampers to Sports+. This engages the engine mounts at their most dynamic setting. It’s a subtle difference but noticeable. I personally then set the throttle response to Sports which is less frantic. To reduce ride harshness, Porsche allow a “comfort” setting for tyre inflation, being 2.1 bar instead of the standard 2.4 bar. This is far more suitable for bumpy British B roads.
So with 2.1 bar tyre inflation, and PADM dialled up to max, I think you might have been pleasantly surprised. Next time…
Like your reviews, but can’t relate to the comments. Steering and ride are sublime. Had one for a couple of days and ended up ordering one, I thought it was that good! Each to their own.
Guess it depends on what cars you've driven in the past.
@@gmc89coventry77 driven and owned plenty
@@gurpreetsarang8929 Lotus Evora? Pretty much unbeatable steering feel.
Really enjoyed this, especially the general discussion of steering feel. As well as being engaging, steering feel used to be an important safety characteristic before we had traction control. Imagine trying to drive an old rally car at the limit on dirt or gravel without steering feel. Traction control has robbed us of the need to have steering feel to keep us from flying off the road.
I was seriously considering trading in my 981 Boxster S with X73 suspension and manual for this car but after hearing this, I am having second thoughts! Steering feel is decent but definitely NOT like the old hydraulic steering. Rest of the car is great.
I would say it's unlikely that this rides more firmly than an x73'd 981.
There is an auto-hold feature in the Porsche. Just push the brake hard when you stand still.
Thanks Uncle Buck
Absolutely respect and love your honesty and unbiased reviews James because you don't watch other reviews before you make your own.
Roadholding/grip is how fast you can go round corners without losing traction front or back. Handling is how the chassis reacts to a loss of grip.
My old MR2 had awesome grip and could corner motorway slip roads at advisory 30 mph at about 50 mph. Just after the sliproad there was a 90 degree corner down to my rural house.
Spun out twice on that because although the Mr2 had great grip the handling was pretty sketchy.
Didn't crash it but I did do the whole over correction tank slapper thing a couple of times.
My Z4 in contrast has decent grip but breaks grip more progressively and handles much more smoothly.
The breakout is far more progressive.
That's what I always understood the difference between handling and grip.
Luv and Peace.
The Boxi with 6 Cylinders and so much power is a super car. But as older guy I will allways prefere the classic 911. Thats not a question of speed or power but of style and history.
It may be stupid or trivial, but this is the first Boxster I actually noticed. It looks better than the older ones and 718 is the Brooklyn area code i was born and raised in.
James tells Porker owners how to use their car. James , I especially liked the LS600H review. As a trader we all love a temporary large engine barge or smoker while we find a buyer; for this your comment what we really want from a car is true. For everyday use a V12 large limo is just it; for fun may I suggest a Lotus, Exige or Elise or similar without P.A.S.
Excellent video. Anyone who had a question about your verbiage on your previous car reviews, and specifically speaking about the Porsche Boxster, as you reference in this video. And those that have a question about what you mean when you use terms like, “compliance, road grip, handling or over responsive, should not have any confusion after watching this review. I’m not an expert by any means, but I love cars and I particularly like your reviews. Actually, in truth, I often binge watch your show because I get a strong sense you are giving an honest, experienced, and fair review. Though I do also think in this particular clarification video, about the Porsche Boxster, you may have held Porsche’s hand a bit as you walked them through that clarification process with bit of, and pardon the pun, but your delivery of some of those truths to Porsche and the listeners respectively, were communicated on some of the softest suspicions, not unlike some of the best Mercedes S class among us! I understand your reason for doing it in that way, and I say this not to criticize you, but to express my thoughts on your, very thoughtful and sincere efforts to make your clarifications in this video, and I hope, Porsche, especially the watching public or any other vehicle manufacturers that you should review in the future, take note of this video and those efforts you so, carefully and methodically explained here to help educate us, and not be so quick to question your integrity, your good or fair intentions of your RUclips space going forward. -Keep up the good work.
FYI, I too like the Porsche Boxster, even the early models. Especially the early models. The belt lines are much lower in line with those early chassis and to me, look and feel like a true roadster. All model Boxster’s are attractive though, indeed, it’s piece of handsome art.
Thanks
Manuel A.
You reviewed (and liked) the 981 generation of the Boxster GTS a couple of months ago. Would you say that the 981 generation didn‘t have the same issues, or were you less focused on these aspects when reviewing the 981?
So the 981 3.4 GTS is a better car? I like to think so.
I own one with the PDK box and I must say, I do like the way it feels and goes. I suppose we are all different. My steering wheel also has stitching to match the trim of the car.
The weight differences can also be a result of the new measuring system that was introduced in 2019/2020. Now the manufacturer is no more allowed to show the weight of the lightest model in the range, they need to publish the weight of the best-selling version of this model. So it really can be a bit confusing when you compare it to the cars measured with the old rules. As far as I remember the new 992 911 would be lighter than the 991when you use the old system. When you use the new system the data shows it a bit heavier, even when it would be the same weight or lighter using the old system.
Generation 981 is still the king...But don't understand why Porsche persist with the Pirelli's as they are indeed not as well suited as the Michelin PS4. Great vid though 👍🏻 (apart from the pot-holed roads!) 😱
We love a waffle
Did not expect to see you here!
Blue ones?
@@jackiechan8840 🤣
Gordon Ramsey loves waffles
I've really never understood the English left hand drive concept. I first noticed this 30 year's ago when i first visited friends. What i noticed right away was the amount of time the English drove on the right side of the road. It's whenever they are driving on country roads. I noticed it here on this video. It's also not just once in a while, but for extended lengths of time.
This review of the drab 4.0 makes his review of the Cayman R (“without peer”) all the more important and notable as the all time great of their mid engine platform.
...said the 987R guy 😂
@@sebastianfiedler2343 👀😂
@@sebastianfiedler2343 slight giveaway
Astute observation about anything adaptive or dynamic robbing cars of more feel.
I owned a 2020 Boxster Spyder. Worst Porsche I have owned it was soon back with the dealer. Jay's review here you could have been talking about the Spyder. Something fundamentally wrong with the rear of the car which would skip and hop all over the place when pushed especially coming out of bends. Maybe it was the traction doings its bit but it was not nice. Even my partner who drives like Miss Daisy said what wrong with the rear of this car! Clutch went at 7000 miles although I was the third owner and when stripped it had obviously been abused. Gear lever fell apart in my hand, bonnet release button fell apart, 18 way seats uncomfortable. I have also owned a 987 Spyder and that a much better car than the 718, much better. I now have a 2009 987 Boxster Sport 2.7 I bought of a neighbour and its such a nice car to drive and drive fast. Never surprises its just brilliant. Not as powerful obviously as the Spyder but much more fun to drive and live with. What next 911T?
How does the 4.0L GTS compare to the review you did on the 981 GTS ? I would be very interested to here your comments
I’d be interested to hear as well.
I’ve had both 🤓
981 just wins regarding sound.
718 has better chassis control and steering.
More grip and smoother transition as it subsides.
The big one for me, is throttle modulation a high revs, where the 981 could have the odd artificial lump as you roll off the gas.
The 4.0 feels organic by comparison.
Loved them both, and even the GTS 2.5T between them.
I agree with you on your major gripes, Pirelli tyres are no where near as good as Michelin's to me. Porsche have an options list as long as your arm, I think tyre choice should be one of them. I don't think suspension setups with different ride modes do the cars any favours for UK or Irish roads, especially B roads where these cars are supposed to come alive. And steering feel is another one being lost when compared to older cars. I've a 997.2 Carrera which came highly optioned but with the standard suspension. And I am happier that it did over the PASM version as a result of what you mentioned above. I also have a 986 Boxster, I absolutely love the steering feel, weight and confidence it gives, I think I prefer it to the 997.2 being honest. Thanks JayEmm.
Mechanical (993) vs Electric steering
That’s exactly what I was thinking.
I love the neon 80s cyberpunk aesthetic of the outro song and graphics.
Great review, the Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK is a car that I dream of, but living at 2,600 above the sea level, the car instead of delivering 400 hp, delivers merely 300 and I can say it is like that, because I own an M3 e92 manual and is frustrating as hell to get passed by a 240i. Now talking about steering feel doesn't motivates to go for it, instead what this review leads me to, is to go for an M3 Xdrive...
Normally aspirated cars lose 3% per 1000 feet of elevation, so you are definitely not losing 100hp at 2600 feet.
@@prasad530 I wasn't as precise I should be... I live at 2,600 meter above sea level... my N/A works at 70% of it's potential where I live. Thanks for your comment
Great car! The new 911
Hey James looking forward to you coming down to see us (Ashgood) having driven all I think the 981 GTS is the better option out of 4.0 vs 981 options...I think i would list the preference like this. 1 - 981 GTS boxster, 2 - 981 Spyder, 3 - 718 Spyder, 4 - Boxster GTS 4.0 718, 5 - Cayman 981 GTS, 6 - 981 GT4, 7 - 718 GT4.....Yes i would chose a GTS over a GT4, Ive never understood the GT4...it never really is a GT car...compare it to a 991.1 GT3 .....thats a beast..
For me, no.1 is the 981S Boxster, getting one with all the sports options for 15k less than a GTS!
Thank you for putting effort and care into these videos! We appreciate you (:
Once owned a Boxster 987 and the sport suspension was useless and far to hard from British roads. I always felt it was over tyre’d which mad it skip and fidget when pushing on. Then I traded it for a Lotus Evora and that was magic but only when it worked which in the four years I owned that wasn’t very often sadly. I am looking for another sports car but need something to handle, ride and look 👀 like the Evora but work!!!!! Ideas???
Another great video, happy to listen to your opinion, that can’t be wrong, people can agree or disagree, that’s ok too, fact isn’t opinion. Keep well 👍
I couldn’t agree more. I drove it on some B roads and I couldn’t wait to get out of it. It beats you up. Oddly, the base model didn’t give me the same impression.
5th. (4th if you don't count JayEmm *cheating* 4 days ago! ;) ) and more waffle please! Perfect for a Sunday morning: especially impressed that you avoid all other reviews and go in blind, it really adds to the authenticity.
Electric steering is horrible in all cars. Porsche does a much better job than other manufacturers I have driven!