I find the bsds to be more consistent with where things get located in the filesystem. I also like the rc script system over systemd. Although I've never had issues with systemd, it doesn't make much sense once you take a look at BSDs init system.
Routers and many other devices in the household. Yes, a big motivation is that they can lock down the code, keep it a secret what the software is. The more interesting question for me is WHY they do that. It could be because they don't want competitors to know how they solve things (copypasting is cheap), it could be because they don't want us to see a lot of errors in their code (afraid of criticism in the media?), it could be because they don't want the user to be in control of their device.
@@peterjansen4826 more likely it is because they don’t want the user to be in control of the device. I think it is a security and support decision. The same reason that some medical devices are exempt from sharing code with the GPL.
@@ssl3546 I disagree with their not being an upside, the upside is happy customers and more positive reviews. You know, that ownership thing which Louis Rossman justifiably keeps ranting about.
I dont think so because a private company may flip the bill for development but sooner or later if they want their code to stay compatible with new releases they'll need to do maintenance which is when they come knocking either to Linux or BSD to plead for their patches to be incorporated, or the community to pick up their maintenance work, at which point they often have to opensource their proprietary code. That happens regardless whether we're speaking to a BSD style license or the gpl. So the fighting between gpl vs bsd licenses is often academic and in practice has the same effect. As for the common misconception about the GPL forcing private businesses to open their code, that's not true and never has been. any private institution can take gpl code, modify it and run it for ever privately without sharing the MODs. Its when that code is shared publicly that the GPL addresses, but then again, the real world scenarios makes little difference.
Great video! Thanks! I am someone that learned FreeBSD before Linux back in the dial up modem days so I can tell you from experience that the two are a lot alike and are also a lot different. That doesn't make one better or worse then the other. That just makes them different. Over the years, I have seen things like jails start in FreeBSD and then because of their slow want to change allow to be overtaken by projects like containers. (FYI Jails predate containers by almost a decade.) Because of these distinctions and rate of changes there are some projects that I prefer to put on FreeBSD and some projects that I prefer to put on Linux. I agree with you that there is no need to learn both originally but I do think that it is important that you understand the distinctions so that you can use the right tool for the job when needed. 😉
One of differences I learned between two is how each does system calls/syscall. In BSD passes parameters by pushing to the stack whereas in Linux passes parameters by loading them into the registers.
I mainly ever used debian, I would love to try freebsd and haiku os. With mac Intel and Microsoft then reading about linux being breached I want to use a different daily driver for desktop.
Linux breached? Which thing are you thinking of? I mean yeah the XZ thing was potentially bad but it was caught quickly, lots of distros weren't affected (including Debian's stable branch), and no OS is immune to exploits. Every Sony breach for the last couple of decades has been a FreeBSD breach for example. Not trying to talk you out of switching OS but switching alone won't help. If you're that worried about security the first thing to look at is your habits so you can fix them and don't carry any bad ones with you if you do switch for that reason.
12:01 as far as I know, the Sony's PlayStation 4 OS is based on one FreeBSD-based OS. beside that, I've never seen or heard anything or anyone using any BSDs for gaming I've seen some stats which Valve released some years ago, that 0.01% of users' devices are `other` or `unknown` that also could be Linux users too but using some very niche distro or something
He hit the nail on the head about the 3 minute mark. BSD: Its got to be good, its got to be stable, its got to make sense. Linux: You have a new toy? Sure! Lets throw it in this release. If we decide we don't like it tomorrow, we'll just pull it back out. I have useful, literally 30 year old source I still pull out on occasion and use on BSD... and in fact, a whole bunch of 30+ year old software I use every day. I also have commercial software that I have to keep with a copy of the OS on Linux because they literally broke and/or removed significant features the next release, and its but one of hundreds of examples of exactly the same problem.
😮 The first major difference is that one is an operating system while the other one is simply a kernel that cannot operate a system without other applications, utilities, and programs. That's the very first hugest difference. 😮
Stated another way BSD is the an entire OS ( kernel & user-land tools & software ) whereas Linux is just the kernel. The user-land software for Linux comes from another open-source project called GNU thus GNU Linux.
You just in some cases don't know about it. VPC for FreeBSD does exist but it's behind closed doors and in development. Joyent has a VPC cloud segments on Illumos and FreeBSD and actually they out preform AWS containers.
One thing you didnt mention here was jails in FreeBSD and how they are very similar to lxc and in fact predate them. I migrated a platform from Linux to FreeBSD in the esrly 00s for jails but went back 18months later as LXC matured and overtook it. Not sure wbat the current atate of jails is, but it would be interesting to explore.
I respect BSD, if I am not mistaken the core-netwerksoftware (not talking about a tool like NetWorkManager, that is higher level) comes from BSD. Awesome! I can't use it though because I can't game much on BSD so for the foreseeable future I will use Linux. Linux just is more mature for the desktop.
It wasn't that he didn't know, it's that he didn't think it was unencumbered (free). AT&T lawsuit was still ongoing and overshadowed FreeBSD (called i386BSD at the time)
Rob, a small correction on what you said (maybe you misspoke), MINIX was created by an American in the Netherlands (one of the two universities in Amsterdam). Not so relevant, just pointing it out.
I just want a machine that is extremely secure, surf, email, watch videos, save my data and pirated music on physical storage devices. I also like the old 3.5 floppys over usb I guess it's what I get for being 42 years old.
the real difference between BSD and Linux, is that BSD is a true open source and free operating system, and linux is owned by trillion dollar corporations: Microsoft Intel Meta IBM Samsung Google Ericsson Cisco etc.etc.. And for this reason you CANNOT fork the linux kernel due to copyright infringement, as most of the linux code is actually OWNED by these mega corporations and EVEN many parts of the linux code has patents imposed by these trillion dollar corporations. [For those with little technical knowledge "forking the kernel" has nothing to do with making a new linux distro] .... Oh the massive LIE that is "linux"....
@@ne0ne0 Obviously you have no argument, otherwise you wouldn't have taken the low IQ route of an ad hominem attack, and thus inadvertently confirming the facts I stated.
@@ne0ne0 He is right... IBM=Red Hat and they know very well what to do and where are going Linux now. Linux is owned by trillion dollar corporations right now.
You say that the reason routers use BSD is 'reliability' - IMO this is false.. it's used because it uses the BSD license - which allows the product creator to alter the code and doesn't force them to release the code.. Security through obscurity is not the best. That being said, SSH is a BSD based product, and they started off 'chroot' etc.. so they are slightly more security oriented...
I would say most routers use Linux. But what's more important is that "BSD" isn't in anyway "Security by obscurity". Take OpenBSD. Too big of a subject to discuss here but it's considered the most secure operating system ever made. And the others are also very well made in this regard.
@@michaelheimbrand5424 sorry, didn't mean to imply BSD was insecure - I mean the router makers generally don't share their code and rely on security through obscurity... .. and I mean actual business routers, not home WiFi routers.
@@chokocat9064 "one of the most installed in the world" yeah.. and? I didn't say it wasn't.. not sure what you're trying to point out there. "Security by obscurity is a fallacy" - you are either agreeing with me that there isn't security through obscurity, or you're arguing that me saying companies use the BSD kernel, add their own stuff, and use the security through obscurity fallacy to not allow people.look at their insecure code... In which case I would like to point you to all the companies doing just that..
@@chokocat9064 oh no, BSD is released under the Berkley license, and I have heard of features not being implemented or implemented in specific ways due to security.. so I do not believe BSD itself is lacking in being open or secure. I believe that due to the license companies can and do take it, change it, and then rely on not having to share their code. Be it drivers, whole OSs, etc. One story that I recall concerned I think SCADA systems which used a MAC address and an algorithm to generate either the admin password - or a backdoor support account - which couldn't be changed.. then there's port knocking stories etc.
OS X / macOS has never been derived from a BSD. That's a myth that people keep telling each other. It was a new development from scratch, using a specific kernel architecture that other people could explain to you a lot better than I can, but the main point is: It has always been Darwin and reported as such and not something else.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I find the bsds to be more consistent with where things get located in the filesystem. I also like the rc script system over systemd. Although I've never had issues with systemd, it doesn't make much sense once you take a look at BSDs init system.
Storage Area Network (SAN) appliances were often BSD running on embedded custom PCBs. Very stable
The reason that router manufacturers choose BSD is because the BSD license allows them to use BSD without open sourcing their code.
Routers and many other devices in the household. Yes, a big motivation is that they can lock down the code, keep it a secret what the software is. The more interesting question for me is WHY they do that. It could be because they don't want competitors to know how they solve things (copypasting is cheap), it could be because they don't want us to see a lot of errors in their code (afraid of criticism in the media?), it could be because they don't want the user to be in control of their device.
@@peterjansen4826 more likely it is because they don’t want the user to be in control of the device. I think it is a security and support decision. The same reason that some medical devices are exempt from sharing code with the GPL.
@@peterjansen4826 Because the hardware is trivial to replicate and there's literally zero upside to sharing their source code.
@@ssl3546 I disagree with their not being an upside, the upside is happy customers and more positive reviews. You know, that ownership thing which Louis Rossman justifiably keeps ranting about.
I dont think so because a private company may flip the bill for development but sooner or later if they want their code to stay compatible with new releases they'll need to do maintenance which is when they come knocking either to Linux or BSD to plead for their patches to be incorporated, or the community to pick up their maintenance work, at which point they often have to opensource their proprietary code.
That happens regardless whether we're speaking to a BSD style license or the gpl. So the fighting between gpl vs bsd licenses is often academic and in practice has the same effect.
As for the common misconception about the GPL forcing private businesses to open their code, that's not true and never has been. any private institution can take gpl code, modify it and run it for ever privately without sharing the MODs. Its when that code is shared publicly that the GPL addresses, but then again, the real world scenarios makes little difference.
Yep Mac OS from osx runs on bsd, reliable too
Great video! Thanks!
I am someone that learned FreeBSD before Linux back in the dial up modem days so I can tell you from experience that the two are a lot alike and are also a lot different. That doesn't make one better or worse then the other. That just makes them different.
Over the years, I have seen things like jails start in FreeBSD and then because of their slow want to change allow to be overtaken by projects like containers. (FYI Jails predate containers by almost a decade.)
Because of these distinctions and rate of changes there are some projects that I prefer to put on FreeBSD and some projects that I prefer to put on Linux.
I agree with you that there is no need to learn both originally but I do think that it is important that you understand the distinctions so that you can use the right tool for the job when needed. 😉
One of differences I learned between two is how each does system calls/syscall. In BSD passes parameters by pushing to the stack whereas in Linux passes parameters by loading them into the registers.
I mainly ever used debian, I would love to try freebsd and haiku os. With mac Intel and Microsoft then reading about linux being breached I want to use a different daily driver for desktop.
Linux breached? Which thing are you thinking of? I mean yeah the XZ thing was potentially bad but it was caught quickly, lots of distros weren't affected (including Debian's stable branch), and no OS is immune to exploits. Every Sony breach for the last couple of decades has been a FreeBSD breach for example. Not trying to talk you out of switching OS but switching alone won't help. If you're that worried about security the first thing to look at is your habits so you can fix them and don't carry any bad ones with you if you do switch for that reason.
12:01 as far as I know, the Sony's PlayStation 4 OS is based on one FreeBSD-based OS. beside that, I've never seen or heard anything or anyone using any BSDs for gaming
I've seen some stats which Valve released some years ago, that 0.01% of users' devices are `other` or `unknown` that also could be Linux users too but using some very niche distro or something
Just about to comment the same thing the ps3 OS is based on freebsd and netbsd with a custom shell, xcross media bar.
@@aseantravels8772 didn't know about ps3, but I've read on some media that Sony owes PS4's success to FreeBSD.
He hit the nail on the head about the 3 minute mark. BSD: Its got to be good, its got to be stable, its got to make sense. Linux: You have a new toy? Sure! Lets throw it in this release. If we decide we don't like it tomorrow, we'll just pull it back out.
I have useful, literally 30 year old source I still pull out on occasion and use on BSD... and in fact, a whole bunch of 30+ year old software I use every day. I also have commercial software that I have to keep with a copy of the OS on Linux because they literally broke and/or removed significant features the next release, and its but one of hundreds of examples of exactly the same problem.
No gaming on BSD? Isn’t PlayStation based on freeBSD?
BlayStation is Gaming BSD not to mention others.. ;)
People game on BSD. The Playstations run on BSD.
yes the Xbox by Microsoft runs on BSD and so does the Nintendo Switch
😮
The first major difference is that one is an operating system while the other one is simply a kernel that cannot operate a system without other applications, utilities, and programs.
That's the very first hugest difference. 😮
Stated another way BSD is the an entire OS ( kernel & user-land tools & software ) whereas Linux is just the kernel. The user-land software for Linux comes from another open-source project called GNU thus GNU Linux.
FreeNAS uses Jails, but I agree, cloud architecture depends immensely on Linux under the hood from things like LXC or QEMU.
You just in some cases don't know about it. VPC for FreeBSD does exist but it's behind closed doors and in development. Joyent has a VPC cloud segments on Illumos and FreeBSD and actually they out preform AWS containers.
One thing you didnt mention here was jails in FreeBSD and how they are very similar to lxc and in fact predate them.
I migrated a platform from Linux to FreeBSD in the esrly 00s for jails but went back 18months later as LXC matured and overtook it.
Not sure wbat the current atate of jails is, but it would be interesting to explore.
I like Linux for what it’s trying to do and I also like the BSD’s for what they are trying to do too. ❤
Now this is the kind of shit I wanna learn at school.
this guy has better info than the schools do.
That's very kind.
Wait, isn't mkdir -p available on Linux? I didn't know that. I used it several times today but that was on OpenBSD and I know it works on MacOS.
Sorry, it is only on non-posix systems (so Linux has it).
@@rwxrob why use posix if it is so ancient and limited in what it can do? I mean be compatible with it yes, but don't restrict yourself to it LOL
A lot of Linux distributions come with Vi, so I’m surprised a lot linux users don’t know it exists.
The only one that I know of is Slackware. The rest I find, are Vim symlinked to Vi
I respect BSD, if I am not mistaken the core-netwerksoftware (not talking about a tool like NetWorkManager, that is higher level) comes from BSD. Awesome! I can't use it though because I can't game much on BSD so for the foreseeable future I will use Linux. Linux just is more mature for the desktop.
useful video. thank you
I just found your channel. Why are your recent videos in your car?
How is that anyone's business to ask? 🙄😑
@@yusef3132 because he’s posting his life on the internet and people are curious? DUH???????
I use the best of both worlds: Void Linux! BTW, Are you a FBI surveillance officer doing part time RUclips videos? 😄😄😄
It’s impossible for Linus not to know that there was FreeBSD out there, when he started!!!!
It wasn't that he didn't know, it's that he didn't think it was unencumbered (free). AT&T lawsuit was still ongoing and overshadowed FreeBSD (called i386BSD at the time)
@@k1e0x Yes you are right... for 2 years 1992-1994, when Linus started kernel development.
The TrueNas uses FreeBSD jails to install plugins
SunOS 4 lyfe lol
Rob, a small correction on what you said (maybe you misspoke), MINIX was created by an American in the Netherlands (one of the two universities in Amsterdam). Not so relevant, just pointing it out.
I just want a machine that is extremely secure, surf, email, watch videos, save my data and pirated music on physical storage devices. I also like the old 3.5 floppys over usb I guess it's what I get for being 42 years old.
the real difference between BSD and Linux, is that BSD is a true open source and free operating system, and linux is owned by trillion dollar corporations:
Microsoft
Intel
Meta
IBM
Samsung
Google
Ericsson
Cisco
etc.etc..
And for this reason you CANNOT fork the linux kernel due to copyright infringement, as most of the linux code is actually OWNED by these mega corporations and EVEN many parts of the linux code has patents imposed by these trillion dollar corporations. [For those with little technical knowledge "forking the kernel" has nothing to do with making a new linux distro]
.... Oh the massive LIE that is "linux"....
What is it you've been smoking?
@@ne0ne0 Obviously you have no argument, otherwise you wouldn't have taken the low IQ route of an ad hominem attack, and thus inadvertently confirming the facts I stated.
@@ne0ne0 He is right... IBM=Red Hat and they know very well what to do and where are going Linux now. Linux is owned by trillion dollar corporations right now.
You say that the reason routers use BSD is 'reliability' - IMO this is false.. it's used because it uses the BSD license - which allows the product creator to alter the code and doesn't force them to release the code..
Security through obscurity is not the best.
That being said, SSH is a BSD based product, and they started off 'chroot' etc.. so they are slightly more security oriented...
BSD has better more performant networking stack, provided your hardware is supported.
I would say most routers use Linux. But what's more important is that "BSD" isn't in anyway "Security by obscurity". Take OpenBSD. Too big of a subject to discuss here but it's considered the most secure operating system ever made. And the others are also very well made in this regard.
@@michaelheimbrand5424 sorry, didn't mean to imply BSD was insecure - I mean the router makers generally don't share their code and rely on security through obscurity...
.. and I mean actual business routers, not home WiFi routers.
@@chokocat9064 "one of the most installed in the world" yeah.. and? I didn't say it wasn't.. not sure what you're trying to point out there.
"Security by obscurity is a fallacy" - you are either agreeing with me that there isn't security through obscurity, or you're arguing that me saying companies use the BSD kernel, add their own stuff, and use the security through obscurity fallacy to not allow people.look at their insecure code... In which case I would like to point you to all the companies doing just that..
@@chokocat9064 oh no, BSD is released under the Berkley license, and I have heard of features not being implemented or implemented in specific ways due to security.. so I do not believe BSD itself is lacking in being open or secure.
I believe that due to the license companies can and do take it, change it, and then rely on not having to share their code. Be it drivers, whole OSs, etc.
One story that I recall concerned I think SCADA systems which used a MAC address and an algorithm to generate either the admin password - or a backdoor support account - which couldn't be changed.. then there's port knocking stories etc.
Is this video 30 years old?
RUclipsr AgileDevArt made video demonstrations of gaming with FreeBSD.
OS X / macOS has never been derived from a BSD. That's a myth that people keep telling each other. It was a new development from scratch, using a specific kernel architecture that other people could explain to you a lot better than I can, but the main point is: It has always been Darwin and reported as such and not something else.
Linux users shower
haha got 'em!
Richard stallman showers confirmed
BSD? Is it for the people that like being handcuffed, tied with the ropes, etc?
Are you living out of your car?
How is that anyone's business to ask? 🙄😑
last_milesdennis?
the channel seems to be @lastmiles