It's undeniable that Dutch's gang became more and more sloppy and imprudent as the chapters went by, but I still believe Micah was a traitor. There many evidences of Micah trying to get into Dutch's head to make him give away his positions to the Pinkertons. One of the biggest proofs is the poster offering a reward of 5.000 dollars for Dutch's head. Guess where you can find this poster? Micah's camp close to Strawberry. Besides, Milton was about to kill Arthur in Van Horn, so I don't see why he would feel like lying to him on his deathbed. The only thing that still hasn't been made clear is: Since WHEN Micah have been working with the Pinkertons. Milton says since Guarma, but (quite frankly) they seemed to be cooperating since the ferry heist in Blackwater.
I think micah was always a Rat, but not neccessarily always for the pinkertons. You already mentioned the bounty poster (but the amount was for 1,000 dollars, not 5,000) which implies that micah was watching or had an intent to meet dutch. Another overlooked detail, but micah met dutch is different than how the rest of the gang met dutch. The reason why the way micah and dutch met is different and worth raising an eyebrow at, is that micah is one of only 2 gang members Dutch credits with saving his life(reverand swanson is the other and we do not have details on that situation). The fact that micah just happened to be at the same bar as the most wanted man in the state, given the added context of the old bounty poster of dutch gives reason to believe that micah had ill intentions from the jump...the way they met and how micah and dutch describe it, is a complete contrast to how the rest of the gang and dutch talk about their first time meeting. The rest of gang talk about how dutch found them, when they were at their most vulnerable. Dutch found hosea, hosea and dutch found arthur, dutch arthur and hosea found john ect ect...but not micah. Micah sought dutch. I also think people tend to rush through the missions "a queit time" and "blessed are the meek" while also not taking in the convos/events being had in those missions. Also also, you can meet joe in online. Online takes place 1 year before rdr2. Micah was only in the gang for 6 months at the start of rdr2. upon first meeting Joe (and only on the first time meeting him), Joe says along the lines of "I've been separated from my gang...we had a nice buisness going after other gangs...tearing them from the inside"....I feel it's important to note that Joe is a quest giver that gives missions to undermine online gangs and player possess... This is already so long, I want to add more points but I'll have to come back at a later date.
Yeah, also it would have been pointless for Milton to set up some fake "Mika snitched on you" story to split apart the gang and say it to the captured Arthur, Sadie and Abgail, because I dont think it was Miltons intention to have them escape back to camp.
The gang got sloppy, yes, but Micah was most definitely a rat. He was trying to get the gang (or at least Dutch, so the one with the hightest price on his head and we know he had his wanted poster in his camp near Strawberry) back to Blackwater for the money. When Arthur calles him a rat in the last fight between them, he claims that he is "a survivor, blacklung" and that was basically a confession for me. Plus, why would Milton lie? He intended to kill Arthur only seconds after so what reason did he have to lie? It doesn't make sense.
In re to the Abigail pregnancy theory, there’s also a random scene in the epilogue at Beechers Hope where Abigail is knitting what appears to be baby booties and John comments on it. So maybe she was born shortly after the epilogue takes place.
Yes, I agree that Abigail knitting was a clue. When John asks what she's knitting, she just says "Oh, you'll see". I took that as a clue she was expecting at that time, we just never get to see the rest of that story line.
One thing that always bothered me is at the beginning of the Clemens Point chapter the gang uses fake names then like 2-3 missions later start using their real names again. Sloppy bro
Further to the Cleet and Joe theory, Micah could’ve been working for the Pinkertons the entire time. We all know about how he had Dutch’s wanted poster at his camp, for example. Why did he have that there? Milton says they picked him up after Guarma, but who is to say?
It could be both. I personally think with the evidence that provided in game, that milton was telling the truth. They picked him up after guarma, when it was clear molly and arthur werent gonna rat or turn dutch in. I personally believe that micah always intended on betraying dutch. He's the only one in the gang that "saved dutch" on their first meeting. That's a minor but significant contrast to how everyone else met dutch...even hosea, arthur and john describe their first meeting with dutch coming and saving them. He has a wanted poster of dutch that's set at 1,000 dollars. The amount being lower than arthurs is 100% proof that it's an older poster, pre blackwater heist. We don't know how long micah had that poster, but we do know that he was only with the gang for 6 months at the START of rdr2. We know that the ferry job was his idea. We can also run into joe in rdo(takes place 6months to 1year before rdr2 story. Joe's first interaction he states something along the lines of "I was seperated from my gang...we made it through taking our our competitors, from the inside"....think it's important to not Joe is a quest giver that gives the player missions to destroy other gangs and player posses. All in all, micah is and was the rat, but his loyalties were just himself. I think he got cocky, and thought he could take dutches bounty in AND the money dutches gang made....and then was kinda shit outta luck and had to stick with them longer than intended... Sometimes people act like micahs the sole reason the pinkertons were after dutch...when really the pinkertons were always after dutch...micahs just a "survivor" who bit off more than he could chew, then chose to work with the pinkertons to save his own skin and get the blackwater money.
@@DunceTree93 oh yeah he was always talking about going back for the money in Blackwater. It’ll be funny if they make the third game another prequel and then when Micah joins the gang everyone’s going to be like, “Oh shit!”
The Strange Man told John Heide McCourt's name, which he didn't know. The Strange Man has dark, eye socket-shaped circles around his eyes. Other aspects of his face serve to highlight a skull shape, complemented by his pallid skin. He is Death.
One of the mysteries that intrigues me the most (unsolved ones, at least) is the gravely injured man on horseback near Yosemite Sam’s (the angry hermit or whatever he’s called; the fella who doesn’t want your damn restaurant menu or to hear about Jehova) house, who plods up to Arthur with a bloody face and a bandaged right hand, only to fall off his horse and die. He always has the same loot on him, which includes either 4 or 5 gold teeth, iirc. What is the meaning behind this NPC? There has to be something. OH SHIT. Is he one of the three brothers who live in the house where you can find the map that leads to a gold bar, on a cliff edge above the Elysian Pool??!?? He had gold on him, and he spawns right near the cabin with the map!!!! Has anyone had him spawn anywhere else? There’s another guy who spawns near where the Legendary Boar spawns, but I’m almost certain it’s not the same guy. It would be freaking awesome if it’s one of the brothers, with the same face as one of the fellas in the photograph in the cabin. I always thought it felt like a waste to have the photograph and not have them show up in-game, especially since we see that happen with the old lady and her 4 sons. Edit: for the uninitiated in RDR2jutsu, there’s a campfire stranger who tells the tale of the 3 brothers, and how greed led them to deadly violence, and how his friend went looking for the treasure but disappeared. Maybe it’s the missing friend! Whoever it is, the bandaged hand and the gold teeth in his pocket make me feel like there is definitely something significant to that fella. Curious to hear what you cowpokes think of this!
I don't think Joe and Cleet are informants because in Red Dead Online which takes place a year before RDR2, you can meet Joe and he gives you missions and mentions Micah and Cleet.
I don't think Abigail faked her pregnancy, though I don't think it had happened yet at the point the epilogue ends. If you go up to the attic at Beecher's Hope in RDR 1, you can see a baby's crib among all the boxes and crates. If you go to the same place in RDR 2, it's not there
Oh, another interesting moment that I found was regarding the giant largemouth bass that spawns near the Legendary Bluegill, during the fishing mission with Kieran. I’d originally noticed this massive fish (the size of a large legendary fish) when I first started playing the game a few years back, but assumed it was a glitch. Well, during that fishing mission, many of you will recall the nude swimmer who shows up, giving the boys the tip that leads to the Legendary Bluegill. Lesser of you will remember that, if you go back to the fishing spot where you met the guy and start fishing, he will show up again. If you’re nice to the fella and greet him, Arthur will thank him for leading him to the bluegill. Not sure if you have to had caught it to get the dialogue or not. Anyways, he will then say he saw another big fish in the direction you just came from. When I went back to that spot and cast my line, I caught the huge largemouth, leading me to believe that is why the fish is there! However, after that first time, I’ve only caught a second Legendary bluegill (which doesn’t show up as a second one in your satchel. Smfh). Maybe there is some time parameter I missed, or maybe I was just in the incorrect spot. Idk why I haven’t caught it again, but something tells me that js the reasons it’s there. However… the fact that it shows up as having a normal weight makes me think maybe it is just a glitch. Any thoughts?
Great as always sir! Interesting theories, whether agreed or not. I will still believe that Micah was a rat as it fits and he’s always been about himself, but the gang did get plenty sloppy as well.
Some of these theories were interesting but the Gavin one just made me roll my eyes, especially when you showed the pieces of wood that apparently "spell" Gavin lmao
John Marston’s daughter is a very interesting topic, given how much scarcity there is around it. I firmly believe that John’s daughter was born sometime shortly after the epilogue and died at or shortly after childbirth (which is an entire factor that could explain John’s shift in personality, in comparison to how he is in Red Dead 2), given that this is the early 1900s and child mortality is still at a very, very bad rate. There is little to no indication or direct mentioning of John’s daughter existing / had existed in Red Dead 2’s timeline and, at least to me, makes perfect sense that his daughter be born right before Red Dead 1.
That’d be hilarious (and kinda creepy), imagine you run into Gavin, and he says he’s looking for Nigel, all while wearing clothes from 1899 and freaking out about modern times. Have the twist be that Gavin somehow got sent to the future
Micah was most certainly a rat, I think a better theory would be: "The actions of the gang contributed to the Pinkertons finding them more so than Micah, or any other rat."
I still feel that Pierson was the rat. Using Micah in the end to lure Arthur to the Odriscal gang and in the end getting married and starting a business how he get money?
I don't think people say 'God damn you' as a way to damn God for their misfortune but they mean it as in. 'May God damn you' as in put a curse onto the person causing the misfortune.
@herredward9277 oh ik. It's play on words tho. And many people do damn God. Bc they feel Luke's he's the controlling the misfortune around them. Ppl curse God all the time
It's undeniable that Dutch's gang became more and more sloppy and imprudent as the chapters went by, but I still believe Micah was a traitor.
There many evidences of Micah trying to get into Dutch's head to make him give away his positions to the Pinkertons.
One of the biggest proofs is the poster offering a reward of 5.000 dollars for Dutch's head. Guess where you can find this poster? Micah's camp close to Strawberry.
Besides, Milton was about to kill Arthur in Van Horn, so I don't see why he would feel like lying to him on his deathbed.
The only thing that still hasn't been made clear is: Since WHEN Micah have been working with the Pinkertons. Milton says since Guarma, but (quite frankly) they seemed to be cooperating since the ferry heist in Blackwater.
I think micah was always a Rat, but not neccessarily always for the pinkertons.
You already mentioned the bounty poster (but the amount was for 1,000 dollars, not 5,000) which implies that micah was watching or had an intent to meet dutch.
Another overlooked detail, but micah met dutch is different than how the rest of the gang met dutch. The reason why the way micah and dutch met is different and worth raising an eyebrow at, is that micah is one of only 2 gang members Dutch credits with saving his life(reverand swanson is the other and we do not have details on that situation). The fact that micah just happened to be at the same bar as the most wanted man in the state, given the added context of the old bounty poster of dutch gives reason to believe that micah had ill intentions from the jump...the way they met and how micah and dutch describe it, is a complete contrast to how the rest of the gang and dutch talk about their first time meeting. The rest of gang talk about how dutch found them, when they were at their most vulnerable. Dutch found hosea, hosea and dutch found arthur, dutch arthur and hosea found john ect ect...but not micah. Micah sought dutch.
I also think people tend to rush through the missions "a queit time" and "blessed are the meek" while also not taking in the convos/events being had in those missions. Also also, you can meet joe in online. Online takes place 1 year before rdr2. Micah was only in the gang for 6 months at the start of rdr2. upon first meeting Joe (and only on the first time meeting him), Joe says along the lines of "I've been separated from my gang...we had a nice buisness going after other gangs...tearing them from the inside"....I feel it's important to note that Joe is a quest giver that gives missions to undermine online gangs and player possess...
This is already so long, I want to add more points but I'll have to come back at a later date.
I agree that the gang got sloppy and most likely led the Pinkertons right to them, but I WILL NEVER believe that Micah was not a rat. Sorry not sorry.
Yeah, also it would have been pointless for Milton to set up some fake "Mika snitched on you" story to split apart the gang and say it to the captured Arthur, Sadie and Abgail, because I dont think it was Miltons intention to have them escape back to camp.
Micah was strait up a rat...I've got no doubt he was in the pocket of the Pinkertons long before they gave back from Guarma
There is other proof in the game that Micah was a rat, look at his solo camp after the jail breakout
Also Molly may have been a rat too
I read this as "the gang got sloppy"
The gang got sloppy, yes, but Micah was most definitely a rat. He was trying to get the gang (or at least Dutch, so the one with the hightest price on his head and we know he had his wanted poster in his camp near Strawberry) back to Blackwater for the money. When Arthur calles him a rat in the last fight between them, he claims that he is "a survivor, blacklung" and that was basically a confession for me. Plus, why would Milton lie? He intended to kill Arthur only seconds after so what reason did he have to lie? It doesn't make sense.
In re to the Abigail pregnancy theory, there’s also a random scene in the epilogue at Beechers Hope where Abigail is knitting what appears to be baby booties and John comments on it. So maybe she was born shortly after the epilogue takes place.
Yes, I agree that Abigail knitting was a clue. When John asks what she's knitting, she just says "Oh, you'll see". I took that as a clue she was expecting at that time, we just never get to see the rest of that story line.
What about red dead 1
@@footlettuce6102Early in RDR1 John tells Ms Mcfarlane "I'm married, I got a son, I HAD a daughter.. but she died.." It had to be after 2s epilogue
Wrong where is the baby then ?
One thing that always bothered me is at the beginning of the Clemens Point chapter the gang uses fake names then like 2-3 missions later start using their real names again. Sloppy bro
Further to the Cleet and Joe theory, Micah could’ve been working for the Pinkertons the entire time.
We all know about how he had Dutch’s wanted poster at his camp, for example. Why did he have that there?
Milton says they picked him up after Guarma, but who is to say?
I think Milton only knew about the pick up after Guarma and not before...I'd bet Micah was feeding them info anonymously prior to that
It could be both. I personally think with the evidence that provided in game, that milton was telling the truth. They picked him up after guarma, when it was clear molly and arthur werent gonna rat or turn dutch in.
I personally believe that micah always intended on betraying dutch. He's the only one in the gang that "saved dutch" on their first meeting. That's a minor but significant contrast to how everyone else met dutch...even hosea, arthur and john describe their first meeting with dutch coming and saving them. He has a wanted poster of dutch that's set at 1,000 dollars. The amount being lower than arthurs is 100% proof that it's an older poster, pre blackwater heist. We don't know how long micah had that poster, but we do know that he was only with the gang for 6 months at the START of rdr2. We know that the ferry job was his idea. We can also run into joe in rdo(takes place 6months to 1year before rdr2 story. Joe's first interaction he states something along the lines of "I was seperated from my gang...we made it through taking our our competitors, from the inside"....think it's important to not Joe is a quest giver that gives the player missions to destroy other gangs and player posses.
All in all, micah is and was the rat, but his loyalties were just himself. I think he got cocky, and thought he could take dutches bounty in AND the money dutches gang made....and then was kinda shit outta luck and had to stick with them longer than intended... Sometimes people act like micahs the sole reason the pinkertons were after dutch...when really the pinkertons were always after dutch...micahs just a "survivor" who bit off more than he could chew, then chose to work with the pinkertons to save his own skin and get the blackwater money.
@@DunceTree93 oh yeah he was always talking about going back for the money in Blackwater.
It’ll be funny if they make the third game another prequel and then when Micah joins the gang everyone’s going to be like, “Oh shit!”
The Strange Man told John Heide McCourt's name, which he didn't know. The Strange Man has dark, eye socket-shaped circles around his eyes. Other aspects of his face serve to highlight a skull shape, complemented by his pallid skin. He is Death.
Heidi McCourts name was in the newspapers, also John was more than likely covering for himself by denying he new about her or the murder
@@FilbeeGaming I don't think so. He knew about the murder, but I don't believe he knew the woman's name.
I know, I'm saying Heidi's name was in the papers. John knew that Dutch shot and killed a girl, and the news revealed her name. That's what I meant
Yea these are definitely interesting theories great video as usual
Thanks J
One of the mysteries that intrigues me the most (unsolved ones, at least) is the gravely injured man on horseback near Yosemite Sam’s (the angry hermit or whatever he’s called; the fella who doesn’t want your damn restaurant menu or to hear about Jehova) house, who plods up to Arthur with a bloody face and a bandaged right hand, only to fall off his horse and die.
He always has the same loot on him, which includes either 4 or 5 gold teeth, iirc. What is the meaning behind this NPC? There has to be something.
OH SHIT.
Is he one of the three brothers who live in the house where you can find the map that leads to a gold bar, on a cliff edge above the Elysian Pool??!??
He had gold on him, and he spawns right near the cabin with the map!!!!
Has anyone had him spawn anywhere else? There’s another guy who spawns near where the Legendary Boar spawns, but I’m almost certain it’s not the same guy.
It would be freaking awesome if it’s one of the brothers, with the same face as one of the fellas in the photograph in the cabin. I always thought it felt like a waste to have the photograph and not have them show up in-game, especially since we see that happen with the old lady and her 4 sons.
Edit: for the uninitiated in RDR2jutsu, there’s a campfire stranger who tells the tale of the 3 brothers, and how greed led them to deadly violence, and how his friend went looking for the treasure but disappeared.
Maybe it’s the missing friend! Whoever it is, the bandaged hand and the gold teeth in his pocket make me feel like there is definitely something significant to that fella. Curious to hear what you cowpokes think of this!
I don't think Joe and Cleet are informants because in Red Dead Online which takes place a year before RDR2, you can meet Joe and he gives you missions and mentions Micah and Cleet.
I would love to hear more about the Abigale miscarriage theory as I am confused to how John or her would’ve known it was a girl it was born…
I'm thinking Abigail just felt it was a girl during pregnancy, if indeed she was pregnant
you can tell if it's a boy or girl from about 15 weeks of pregnancy. So it could be possible i guess? 🤔
@VeAmStream yeah, I don't think they had ultrasound machines in the early 1900's
@@kieranl1888 It's a feeling that a pregnant woman has
@@kieranl1888 if she had a miscarriage after 12 weeks she can see what is it.
i understand Ultrasound didn't excist lol
Hello the Filbee Family,Thank you for all your hard work Boss
How can Arthur find proof of the strange man’s existence too then
Not to be mean but the sun worshiper theory lacks any sort of real proof. He could have lied about not eating. I was expecting more from that one tbh
I don't think Abigail faked her pregnancy, though I don't think it had happened yet at the point the epilogue ends.
If you go up to the attic at Beecher's Hope in RDR 1, you can see a baby's crib among all the boxes and crates. If you go to the same place in RDR 2, it's not there
Oh, another interesting moment that I found was regarding the giant largemouth bass that spawns near the Legendary Bluegill, during the fishing mission with Kieran.
I’d originally noticed this massive fish (the size of a large legendary fish) when I first started playing the game a few years back, but assumed it was a glitch.
Well, during that fishing mission, many of you will recall the nude swimmer who shows up, giving the boys the tip that leads to the Legendary Bluegill.
Lesser of you will remember that, if you go back to the fishing spot where you met the guy and start fishing, he will show up again.
If you’re nice to the fella and greet him, Arthur will thank him for leading him to the bluegill. Not sure if you have to had caught it to get the dialogue or not.
Anyways, he will then say he saw another big fish in the direction you just came from. When I went back to that spot and cast my line, I caught the huge largemouth, leading me to believe that is why the fish is there!
However, after that first time, I’ve only caught a second Legendary bluegill (which doesn’t show up as a second one in your satchel. Smfh). Maybe there is some time parameter I missed, or maybe I was just in the incorrect spot. Idk why I haven’t caught it again, but something tells me that js the reasons it’s there.
However… the fact that it shows up as having a normal weight makes me think maybe it is just a glitch.
Any thoughts?
Great as always sir!
Interesting theories, whether agreed or not.
I will still believe that Micah was a rat as it fits and he’s always been about himself, but the gang did get plenty sloppy as well.
Thanks Matt
Some of these theories were interesting but the Gavin one just made me roll my eyes, especially when you showed the pieces of wood that apparently "spell" Gavin lmao
Yeah, Gavin's theory presented here is way above simple far-fetched
I think they told Arthur that Micah was a snitch just to create friction between the gang. And apparently, it worked
...that literally doesn't make sense considering Milton VERY CLEARLY had no intention for arthur, sadie or abigail to leave that room at all....
John Marston’s daughter is a very interesting topic, given how much scarcity there is around it.
I firmly believe that John’s daughter was born sometime shortly after the epilogue and died at or shortly after childbirth (which is an entire factor that could explain John’s shift in personality, in comparison to how he is in Red Dead 2), given that this is the early 1900s and child mortality is still at a very, very bad rate.
There is little to no indication or direct mentioning of John’s daughter existing / had existed in Red Dead 2’s timeline and, at least to me, makes perfect sense that his daughter be born right before Red Dead 1.
Micah was the rat!
Great stuff.
I’m convinced that the Gavin mystery will unfold in GtA VI n (N for Nigel).
A bit of a stretch …but you never know 😂😂
You may very well be right
That’d be hilarious (and kinda creepy), imagine you run into Gavin, and he says he’s looking for Nigel, all while wearing clothes from 1899 and freaking out about modern times. Have the twist be that Gavin somehow got sent to the future
@@eddiediaz5518Would link nicely with RDR2 time traveller Francis Sinclair 😮
Micah was most certainly a rat, I think a better theory would be: "The actions of the gang contributed to the Pinkertons finding them more so than Micah, or any other rat."
Always excited to see a new video from Filbee!
Very cool! You do come up with some great story analysis.
I'm glad you enjoyed 👌
A well made video man watched it with such interest!
I disagree with some of these theories
Great video please I would love to see more.
Sure thing, and thank you
I still feel that Pierson was the rat. Using Micah in the end to lure Arthur to the Odriscal gang and in the end getting married and starting a business how he get money?
And how he was able to live so openly in Rhodes with a gang photo on his wall. It's a very good theory that I've recently been looking in to
Nah most on this list might as well be fanfiction. Lost me when you said Micah wasn't a rat.
Strange man - I think he is God solo bc John says "damn you" and SM says "many have" the saying being "God damn you" and many ppl have said that
I don't think people say 'God damn you' as a way to damn God for their misfortune but they mean it as in. 'May God damn you' as in put a curse onto the person causing the misfortune.
@herredward9277 oh ik. It's play on words tho. And many people do damn God. Bc they feel Luke's he's the controlling the misfortune around them. Ppl curse God all the time
Also why would he imagine the cabin?
@@lego_boba_fett_watch ??? What u mean
@@dolodu the strange man's cabin in rdr2
Outstanding
Thank you
Lls I need credit for the no rat theory. It's mine I've been preaching that from the release. I ain't seen a single other person agree or think of it
It's a plausible theory
it's not yours lol, many people speculate 😂
@@VeamStream show me one
@@dolodu people speculate but most people don't make videos about it. you can't own a theory and wanting credit for it, it's weird
@@VeamStream That was my understanding, I wasn't sure what the purpose of the comment was