If you want more information on what the Golden Throne actually does and it's dark twin, check out this video here: ruclips.net/video/6fgM2bFdZfE/видео.htmlsi=2dfMoICGZXOTj_MG
What a cash grab thousand-plus page waste of words. 40k is 💀 to me after this blatantly bloated book trilogy which could have either been a much better written two parter with way less cheap filler (lets be honest filler is GWs TRUE GAME)...OR one larger book with actual twists & zero need to waste a single page on unoriginal fanfiction-esque filler.
If you want a mind screw what if Lorgar is a Daemon Prince of the Dark King? He ascended Daemonhood about the same time the Emperor created the Star Child and than immediately went into 10,000 years of meditation and seclusion. Ultimately Lorgar goes back to what he always believed, that the Emperor is a god.
In my Headcannon, I always liked the idea that were the emperor to die in the present of the timeline, there are SO MANY, like, untold billions who worship him as a literal god, that were he to die, instead of coming back due to his perpetual nature, he would become a new warp entity due to the weight of the void energy. Some sort of malevolent chaos god.
I really and truly appreciate the way you present everything, particularly putting that Abnett interview in the context of the narrative at large. There's nothing better than actually showing the authors' view from their own mouths and using that as a base from which to launch a discussion about the work. For so many of us its the culmination of years of reading, it deserves this kind of deep dive.
@@jasoninthehood9726 Fuck Erebus, but yes he is interesting. That is why we hate him so much because he is written so well to be hated. Despite saying that, FUCK EREBUS!
@@jasoninthehood9726Are we not allowed to hate someone/something that is also fascinating? The same things that make him fascinating are what provokes the negative emotional reactions to him
Feel silly asking this but Erebus is still around in current setting…..so “Leetu” has been working this for 10k years lol…. Wonder if he has some connection form king in yellow action.
I would love it if in Erubus' final moments he heard a *Shuffle, tap, shuffle tap* approaching from behind him, as what happened with Grammaticus and Pearson and then Leetoo then strikes him down with the original Anathame blade, closing his loop as what he did to Loken in TeatD.
31:50 Macador recording every argument he had with the emperor is *not* petty, it's actually quite genius. It allowed him to study how Emperor things and through that - be more influential (that's why you eventually see Emperor being much more open to the Malcador's ideas and thinking he was right even when his argument was initially dismissed).
The "lost years" can not only be years lost of his immortality (so practically the future), but also years of his past. I think the visiting of all these passed events (e.g. Istvaan) suggests that Horus is robbing him the defining moments f his life. The E had already given up part of his soul before the fight, so robbing him of his past (in form of memories) could weaken him further and further, torture him .. exactly what Horus wants.
I figured its more literal like instead of being immortal with body a 25 year old your immortal stuck in the body of 80 year old boarding on death. Edit: Death as in your not literally going to die but that how you will feel forever.
I didn't expect 40k to turn into yugioh, but here we are! Side note: do they sell actual physical cards of the emperor's tarot anywhere? I REALLY wan to buy some!
I‘m really new to Warhammer 40k and your videos have really made me invested thanks a lot. Ps. Please more videos on the characters opinions of each other, I personally find this the most interesting.
This was a brilliant video to listen to as I was painting last night. These kinds of lore discussions are great for reinterpretting my own understanding of the fiction. The Emperor and The Golden Throne is something so pivotal to the setting and yet it's kind of overlooked. I think what we have now is the possibility for different facets of him to appear. The "human" Emperor, The "God" Emperor, The Dark King - it's interesting to consider.
Dr. Who is where I want to see 40k go. The Emperor gets unplugged, and this actually heals him. So many graybeards scream how this would ruin the grimdark. Here's a hint for the grimdark crew. If the Emperor does come back, what does he bring with him? If the Golden Throne is unplugged, maybe the Astronomicon goes dark. Mankind (at least temporarily) loses warp. Maybe some elder gods return, maybe on Mars. You can have a whole story cycle about a new dark age for 11th edition. And reset the setting for 12th edition. Sounds like a whole lot of fun. And the reincarnated Emperor... Gasp... Could even have avatars that get used in armies!
Bring his true form as psychic sentient fortress that span continents that can reform himself, just like Magnus and Leman Russ' true forms when they combated each other like kaijus/kaijin/Ultraman in old (and still running well) Japanese shows
Not a chance. I think you forget who he is. "I am Rogal Dorn, Praetorian of Terra, primarch of the Seventh Legion Imperial Fists, seventh-found son, defiant and unyielding." He broke Khorne with his sheer defiance. Anybody who tried to alter him would find that he is the immovable object...right before they find out he is also the unstioppable force. And they are caught between both.
@@jasoninthehood9726You can have that opinion, but I’d argue he is one of the most interesting. Dorn is a constancy in a universe that hates it. I mean the main antagonist is literally called Chaos. We have a universe where nothing stays the same, order is near extinct, yet one Primarch out of them all encapsulates constancy where no other brother even tries. That’s unique.
20:00 - that book would probably have a title, the IP tag line, and then everything between the prologue and epilogue would be 10,000 pages saying the word "ow".
20:00 The Emperor's motionless body was sitting on the Golden Throne for weeks now. Broken parts of his body have been mended as much as they could and where they couldn't replaced by many machinery including one of his eye. It was a painful sight to see for Dorn. Or anyone. Seeing The Emperor, his father, the one who always shown the way in this state... This was like a never ending torment to his soul and mind. During these last life long weeks, he was frequently finding himself craving for material pain to his body instead of this heavy curtain of grieve on his heart and mind. But all he could do was just wait and watch. Just like the Emperor's companions and Constantin Valdor do. There are many problems which requires the Reagent's attention indeed. But none was important as this. Rogal Dorn watched this macabre sight as he does for weeks in the colosssal throne room. Even though he was not willing to look at them, he could see and feel that The Companions are watching him like they are silently judging him too. But for what? Not being with The Emperor when he needs him to be? At he right moment and right place against The Lupercal? No... This shouldn't be it. They were all aware of the actions of faul warp on that day. Their captain, legendary Constantin Valdor was also not able to stand with his Emperor during his final confrontation with his traitor son. But Dorn was able to feel the same despiciency from the Captain general too. This was not normal or fair. Or maybe Dorn was just imagining these things he thought. Maybe he was not able to think clearly because of the abrupt absense of his father. At that exact moment, Captain General's thundreous voice echoed inside the throne room and pulled him out of this sea of doubt which was his own making, "You are not needed here, Dorn." Rogal Dorn was the Reagent Of Terra for a long time and he was working together with Constantin for a long time too. He couldn't go too far and say that they were like brothers ofcourse. Because Constantin Valdor was always and foremost; The Emperor's bodyguard. This fact alone was always like an invisible wall between them during their service on Terra. And after the recent events, after half of his brothers' betreyal, that wall was much more higher and thicker than ever before. Despite this fact, Dorn was believing that Constantin had a certain degree of respect for Dorn. Since now. But right now, the Captain General's cold and calculated voice signaling otherwise. Dorn struggled to contain his anger before retorting with rush, "I'm not here because I'm needed." I am here because I need it. Dorn didn't utter outloud the last part of his thoughts ofcourse. This thought was for him alone. He needed to be here. He needed to see his father. He needed the hope. A glimpse of a movement. Anything. Anything to quench the fire of regret inside him. Not the regret of not being able to help his father when he needs the most. For that sin; everyone except his brother Sanguinius and the Custodians died there were quilty. The sin he and only he had; was misinterpret the signs and giving the order to put The Emperor on the Golden Throne... Because it was not working. His father was not healing or communicating anyone. Dorn was understanding it now. The Emperor was not dead yet. That must be a glimmer of hope during these dark days, yes. But somehow that wasn't the case. Dorn was able feel this in his bones. Something was terribly wrong. *** Should I guys?
If the wounds of Big e have caused him "to lose years", those years might transfer into the number of years he has to be interred on the Golden throne in a kind of stasis
It is worth noting, that it is the past years that The Emperor bleeds away. We have this directly stated by Horus. The Emperor is bleeding his past away.
@@diegoestradahernandez2728 The Emperor bleed past years. It is implied that if he had run out, he would have stopped existing. But we don't get details.
I like the idea that the throne is eating his past, his history in the universe, and when it's done eating, when there are no moments left of his past, the Emperor stops existing. By feeding the throne with the souls of psykers it is instead eating sacrificial souls and preserving the Emperor's past. This also gives us an idea of how much the throne consumes. If thousands of lives are fed to the throne every day, thousands of years are consumed. Are all moments equal? Is a moment of the Emperor's life worth more than a mortal's? How long could the Emperor survive on his own?
Theres a passage in the dark imperium books when Gulliman speaks to the Emperor with something like "he could not remember his face, and Robute Gulliman forgot nothing" so that could also support this theory
Amazing job, Sandman. Not just from a lore covering perspective, but the voice acting was immaculate. You really have a talent for this. ;) This entire video just adds credit to the theory that _what_ is on the Throne right now is very different from _who_ was sat upon it. Now, I can understand where Cawl and Guilliman's fears about the Emperor are coming from... :/ Edit: I now have a nagging fear that GW is trying to turn modern 40k into the next Horus Heresy, to the detriment of any other faction than the Imperium or Chaos. But we'll just have to wait and see. ;/
Started reading the Eisenhorn series last month as a result of this channel and I'm almost done the series now. Maybe I'll push to start the main 40k series later this year
I did the same thing when I started, it's a LOT of books but I'm not upset about my choice to dive into the HH after reading the Eisenhorn omnibus. I used the Ork books to break it up a bit here and there tho tbh.
"He bleeds years..." He has lost years of his immortal life by being essentially in stasis. I'd interpret that as meaning his perpetual "mechanisms" had been deactivated for a undisclosed amount of time by the wounds Horus (more accurate to say the Chaos Gods) inflicted.
The view/like ratio is a crime. It has been more than half a day, and the likes are still in the triple digits. Considering the quality of content Sandman has always given us - I don't find this acceptable. I don't usually do this - at least not for a RUclips channel, though this has more to do with my relationship, or now lack thereof, with RUclips itself. _Especially_ not for free. However I think it is time for me to begin directing some traffic from some of my sites to this channel. I guess I will look into contacting Sandman first, but if my secretary can't find a solid contact method today then I'll just take some liberties with it. Granted I do not foresee any real legal challenges to the idea - I've honestly never met someone who, having a public facing career, has ever turned down free advertising. TL;DR - Sandman deserves far more attention than he is getting in the WH40K content community. Therefore - I'm going to help for awhile. At least until his numbers are closer to acceptable.
Dorne having powers to relive the past and therefore learn from his mistakes to build better defences every time he "lost"... he could explain his absence as him going back and back and back in time (in his head) to find a way to undo what has been done... to try to undo the death of his father. He may end up being found and disturbed from "his work" and dragged back into teh present. That ties into the Taro card angle aswell...
Bringing back Horus, Curze, Sanguinius and/or Ferrus Manus would be horrible mistakes, it would completely ruin the gravitas of their HH story arc and just turn 40k into Marvel. Who gives a shit when noone's ever truly dead. I'm not a fan of bringing back any Primarch at all anyway. I know that ship has long since sailed, but I think the setting felt bigger and more compelling when it was about the common man's struggles. Making it all about a handful of demi-Gods and named characters who've been around since the Great Crusade makes it all feel like a much smaller universe.
Great discussion, great theorizing, great stream. Absolutely agree with Quipster at the end. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long. I hope they go there soon to prepare the setting for a Dorn return. Not specifically for Dorn to return, although that would be huge as well, but just to give us a glimpse of the scouring and Dorn after he places the Emperor on the Golden Throne.
Also, and I might be remembering wrong, it was a lot of books ago...but doesn't this version completely erase the part of the Emperor giving Malcador the title Malcador The Hero!‽?
The recombination of thousands of sacrificed and tortured pykers and shamans and one near god level entity of love mercy and loyalty sounds perfect for the emperor it is what he always was but more. The emperor was always torn between the desperate need to do things the scrambling and rushing and using others that resembles a tortured prisoner seeking an escape and a benevolent king that never wants to see his children or his subjects suffer. Both are evident in the lore creating space marines to the point that mutations happen and the process is deteriorating likewise punishing his son for worshiping him (likely because he feared that might become the impetus for his accession to the dark king) or his unwillingness to pull forces out to the webway in order to actually win the war against the traitors because he desperately wanted this project to work believing it would save everything. For his love and honor we see him trying to cure the night haunter of his madness, we see him offer Magnus forgiveness, we see him wanting to restore Ferris, not to mention him having to remove this aspect of himself because he still so deeply loves his son that it would cause him to hesitate. When these too halves of the emperor return it will be him as he was but simply more. He was always a man torn between two natures now those natures are only more extreme and powerful.
I would love to see something that would develop and smash the hell of of tyranids!! They way too OP for just some beings that just eat everything....I hate the idea of them Soo much!!!
I feel like Rogal Dorm DID receive a mission. However it was unstated since it would probably be spoilers. Personally I believe that the emperor told Rogal of his Star fragment and the last 10k years Rogal found and raised him to prepare him for what's to come. It's going to be a setup for when the emperor does awaken from the golden throne and he isn't the emperor anymore, in the end it's going to be The Emperor and his Darkness vs The Emperor and his light.
Having got into 40K via the Witch Hunters of 3rd Ed, I always thought that the Imperial Living Saints were either Warp-bound reflections of a Sister's faith, or as a conduit of the Emperor. Hearing your aside implying how the likes of Celestine, Sabbat and Stern be all this AND more aligned with the Emperor's goodness that he cast aside - compassion, loyalty, honour, protectiveness of humanity - now brings all of that home. Thank you!
1:03:40 He could be a large animated statue. Something the Colossus of Rhodes. Only maybe smaller and otherwise made of a colored type of Marble. The body and skin flexes like you’d expect, but only when the movement is caused by him. If he gets hit, it doesn’t disperse through his body like normal force. It wears away at the point of contact only.
Amazing discussion, I can't believe I missed the original stream! I personally think that Dorn will return when Perturabo does. And I believe the plan is already in the works. After Emperor's Children, the next Legion to refresh will be codex supplement Iron Warriors with a Perturabo model; that is the rumor, anyway. I will be here for it. If I get into a horrible accident and I'm starting to flatline, I will hold on because I know I have be here for Perturabo! I wish I was joking.
I feel like the Emperor is connected to the Old ones in some way. As he and Horus fought throughout the various settings in the warp, the Emperor showed aspects of Eldar in his martial moves, and at one point called a waaaaagh to kill Horus in one of the realities. Id imagine apart from an Orc the only other being who could call a waaaaagh is a "brain boy". I know its a stretch but I thought id bring it up here as if anyone could debunk or consider this it would be The Sandman of Terra.
Jaghatai went for a ride on his bike, got into a race with some ork speed freaks and entered the webway where they met some windriders and they've all been racing ever since.
Two questions I have. 1. If the emperor dies on the golden throne and/or removed, does his fragment die as well? Is it possible that two entities can be the same yet different? 2. I have a theory that the Yellow King is specifically created to help fight the Dark King - should he manifest. This would be the top custodian and the star child, fighting the emperor on the throne to try and fuse the star child back in with the emperor.
One thing folks forget whilst mocking Dorn, he was the Consummate warrior, one of the Best Strategists amongst the Primarchs AND the Templar Crusading Aspect of The Imperial Fists and Later the Black Templars, comes from somewhere and that somewhere is HIM. He is a Crusading Paladin. People also often overlook that Dorn and the Fists were just as adept at laying siege as they were at defending against one.
The passage about the emperor casting off part of himself sell for me that the wmperor always saw his sons as sons, and people seeing otherwise took the wrong message from the battery of meanings often psychically conveyed to people when the emperor speaks
51:34 It could also be that the Emperor turns into a Chaos God (aka the Dark King) upon the reunion with the part of his soul he cast off.... Reason I say this is because it is in this moment he relinquishes his godlike powers and stops his ascension.. So, he blasted all the warp power he had accumulated - which would have turned him into the 5th Chaos God - into the Warp alongside his love and compassion... It is not too far fetched that a reunion with this part would simply restart the process of him becoming the Dark King, especially considering this fragment of his soul has grown much, much more powerful ever since
I know they say that if the Emperor is removed from the Golden Throne, a litany of demons would stream into real space through the Webway, which kind of makes me hope that Abaddon gets what he wants. In his moment of victory, as he has thrown the Emperor from the Throne, he realizes the truth of what the Emperor was holding back. But, what would have happened if Dorn had NOT put the Emperor on the Throne? If the Emperor died, he would have regenerated, and returned. I also find myself wondering if ALL of this, the Heresy and the resulting fallout, could have been avoided if the Emperor had told Horus about the Webway project instead of just going "you're in charge now, deuces!!" If he told Horus what he was doing, and WHY he was doing it, could the Heresy have been avoided?
I saw the years of bleeding as explaining why he doesn't just recover - if he took 10,000 years of damage, then he can't recover for that amount of time and would need life support to bridge the gap until the damage is finally "healed" and he returns to his immortal self.
I think changing the state of the emperor on the golden throne would be a disservice to the setting. Like you said, commorragh would need a solution first. And honestly, the golden throne is probably the most compelling linchpin and mysterious technology in all of 40k. The big E should stay on the golden throne in perpetuity. Warhammer doesn't need midichlorians. Lets the mysterious things remain mysterious
I think when it comes to old and new lore we have to think of it as what the people know vs what really happened rather than retcons both are true like guardsman still believing in olanius pius standing up to horus where it's actually a combo of 2 different people
I liked the idea of the emperor being taken from the throne by Russ so he could be reborn or something like that (after a long time), and in that return Russ would take his place like Odin, and who would come as the 5th God of Chaos, or just a Minor god of war, would be Sanguinius
I beleive your point on the throne and the emperor sustaining each other is furthermore backed by the fact that Vulkan was suppose to take Malcador's place in case things went even more sideway. I may be mistaking, but him being a perpetual with maybe unknown power could have been a good zombie fit
Holy thrones!! I just realized something! The Chaos Gods didn't want to kill the Emperor, They want to trap the Emperor ON THE GOLDEN THRONE! Where he is helpless and tormented for eternity till he truly becomes the Dark King
I want Jaghatai to come back riding some kind of demon-engine with a keeper of secrets or bloodthirster in it or something out of a nightmare (aka whatever hellish shit the drucchi create). Dorn's superpower will probably be something related to his wrath, maybe he'll release a double of himself that's full-on attack mode, an unstoppable sword to his impervious shield... Would be cool for him to have any meaning to his ability to resist Khorne's calling having a play on his warp thing...
Bleeding years in my book would me. Immortal and unaging. The wounds aging/pushing closer to end of life….. while not dead, aged. To the point of an old feeble Person…. Unable to physical do much, not being as bright, but having moments of clarity….
I think the real danger is that if the emperor is removed from the Golden throne without having that part of himself that he cast off - the part that seems to be backing the lion - there to join with him at that moment when he will finally die and come back fully. He'll have all that power, all that tortured time in the piston loop of pain with NONE and he'll reincarnate with NONE of the love, hope, or empathy necessary to tame it. And THAT would be..... terrifying.
Honestly I think something like that is quite likely to happen. What we know is that the starchild is the representation of the emperor's "good side". It is also implied that said child will be grounded in the materium. All this makes me think that the starchild won't be a warrior but a guide. An administrator and strategist, a leader of men. Having that part of the big E residing on Terra would allow the rest to manifest in the Warp. A god of discipline at all costs. A being embodying order, but uncaring about the cost of it.
@@Mortarion-xt9wp When they split the galaxy in 2, I was suspicious that they were going to split the Imperium into 2 factions. A Science, rational faction - like big Es original plan, and a dark superstitious faction like the imperium is now, but turned up to 11.
@@kevinshort3943 this is an interesting thought. A problem I see with it are the characters we know and love. After all if one half devolves a lot of heroes would end up in it.
All powerful immortal emperor: dies and has all these problems, despite having life support and a thousand souls sacrificed to him a day His son: dies and doesn’t do any of this and doesn’t have nearly as many problems
@@kevinshort3943 So basically Old Ones' techs, humans are likely being one of failsafe plans for Old Ones to have living beings overcome both Necrons and tumors (Chaos) within The Warp
It was a key part in the webway project. Maybe a way to establish a constant and stable portal with the webway or, if i may throw a theory, it could be a webway generator that was hidden there from the necrons and their gods
Sorry new to the setting and trying to get to grips with it. But is this the classic grim dark case of everyone believes they are doing the right thing by putting him on the throne when in fact it’s the exact opposite? If they just took the emperor off the throne would he be able to just heal himself? But he’s stuck in this never ending torture because people believe they are doing the right thing by keeping him on there?
The Emperor went to the throne willing, long story short one of his sons f-up and poked a hole in the fabric of existance in holy terra, so the emperor need to sit on the throne to keep this hole shut otherwise legions of demons will come flooding through and anihilating everything that exists. So from humanity's perspective: The emperor dies - Humanity is wiped The emperor is taken from the throne - Humanity is wiped The throne fails because of lack of maintance (happening) - Humanity is wiped The only thing keeping humanity from being anihilated is the unbending will of a human that's being tortured for 10.000 years just to keep humanity alive, and he's dying.
The emperor explained his foresight to RA didn’t he ? He says he can see the start and the finish but everything inbetween is basically a jumbled fumbled timeline.
@@SandmanofTerra it’s an interesting point I feel as though people forget to mention when speaking on the emperor’s actions and there in choices made leading up to said actions and I feel as though it does alter what the story may turn into if he truly knows what he’ll end up becoming… here’s just hoping I see him step off of the golden throne in some way before I hit 40
It would be interesting if the end direction GW takes the storyline is that the half of the Emperor's soul on the throne firmly believes in the Imperial Truth while the other half believes in the power of the Human Soul and the Imperium becomes divided over this issue as the same old xenos and warp issues keep happening
Rereading it, I thought Abnett had the chance of tying a lot of incongruencies and ill explained strangeness and retcons by this losing of years, but they just came up with the idea way too late
With what we know about Bequin, and the fact that the star child is described as a little girl, it makes you wonder if in Pandemonium may end with Beta becoming a grail for the Emperor eventually, maybe
Is it possible that the future that played out the way it needed to with the cards? Emperor on the throne stops him from returning without his emotions, now that part is stuck there while the “good” parts of the emperor finds its way back to its other half.
He did tell Horus that he both forgave him and that he would see him again, and that was AFTER He had already sustained Every blow. If even obliterated horus can come bac.. Perpetuals have come back intact even after complete annihilation of their physical form. If Vulcan lives, the Emporer certainly can too. That final fight felt cartoonish at one point with the whole beams of energy from chests and whatnot.
What if Beckwyn is wrong and Valdor is not the king in yellow but it's the starchild and Valdor has been there protecting that piece of the emporer and acting at its behest so people think it's Valdor
@@Abefroman-lq3md Well Russ and Valdor both had visions at the same time and left maybe Valdor to be the protector and Russ to find the catalyst to restore the 2 parts the tree of life and like with Guilliman for it to work someone has to kill what remains on the throne and thats where Cypher comes in but not yet because all the pieces aren't in place pretty wild but thats the way I'd write it
i like the thought that after the emperor was placed on the throne, every single time someone looked at him there was a different guy sitting on the throne as he reincarnates over and over again.
If you want more information on what the Golden Throne actually does and it's dark twin, check out this video here: ruclips.net/video/6fgM2bFdZfE/видео.htmlsi=2dfMoICGZXOTj_MG
I can't decide if I like the dark twin chair. It makes the Golden Throne less mysterious.
Are you actually going to post again??
What a cash grab thousand-plus page waste of words. 40k is 💀 to me after this blatantly bloated book trilogy which could have either been a much better written two parter with way less cheap filler (lets be honest filler is GWs TRUE GAME)...OR one larger book with actual twists & zero need to waste a single page on unoriginal fanfiction-esque filler.
If you want a mind screw what if Lorgar is a Daemon Prince of the Dark King? He ascended Daemonhood about the same time the Emperor created the Star Child and than immediately went into 10,000 years of meditation and seclusion. Ultimately Lorgar goes back to what he always believed, that the Emperor is a god.
In my Headcannon, I always liked the idea that were the emperor to die in the present of the timeline, there are SO MANY, like, untold billions who worship him as a literal god, that were he to die, instead of coming back due to his perpetual nature, he would become a new warp entity due to the weight of the void energy. Some sort of malevolent chaos god.
I really and truly appreciate the way you present everything, particularly putting that Abnett interview in the context of the narrative at large. There's nothing better than actually showing the authors' view from their own mouths and using that as a base from which to launch a discussion about the work. For so many of us its the culmination of years of reading, it deserves this kind of deep dive.
This is done by chatGPT and an AI voice.
@@kaptenhangpung3538What????
@kaptenhangpung3538 you are a bot. Dude does live shows with his face on them. Get real.
@@kaptenhangpung35383 months and you still haven’t deleted your false accusation.
If Leetu actually tracks down and kills Erebus in 40K he will instantly become the most popular character in the setting.
Stop with the Erebus hate. He’s more fascinating than 75% of the current characters.
@@jasoninthehood9726 Fuck Erebus, but yes he is interesting. That is why we hate him so much because he is written so well to be hated. Despite saying that, FUCK EREBUS!
@@jasoninthehood9726 But I like hating Erebus, it's fun
@@jasoninthehood9726Are we not allowed to hate someone/something that is also fascinating? The same things that make him fascinating are what provokes the negative emotional reactions to him
Feel silly asking this but Erebus is still around in current setting…..so “Leetu” has been working this for 10k years lol….
Wonder if he has some connection form king in yellow action.
I would love it if in Erubus' final moments he heard a *Shuffle, tap, shuffle tap* approaching from behind him, as what happened with Grammaticus and Pearson and then Leetoo then strikes him down with the original Anathame blade, closing his loop as what he did to Loken in TeatD.
31:50 Macador recording every argument he had with the emperor is *not* petty, it's actually quite genius. It allowed him to study how Emperor things and through that - be more influential (that's why you eventually see Emperor being much more open to the Malcador's ideas and thinking he was right even when his argument was initially dismissed).
The "lost years" can not only be years lost of his immortality (so practically the future), but also years of his past. I think the visiting of all these passed events (e.g. Istvaan) suggests that Horus is robbing him the defining moments f his life.
The E had already given up part of his soul before the fight, so robbing him of his past (in form of memories) could weaken him further and further, torture him .. exactly what Horus wants.
Cool way of seeing things, very interesting possibility and plotlines
He does go back in time to revisit old triumphs and the Emperor can see him and warns him Fing with the timeline is bad.
I figured its more literal like instead of being immortal with body a 25 year old your immortal stuck in the body of 80 year old boarding on death. Edit: Death as in your not literally going to die but that how you will feel forever.
@@ghost707
Good point. I always wondered why Malcador as a perpetual was an "old man".
Could be something similiar in his case.
The part of the Emperor removing his "good" part really gives new meaning to his reunion with Guilliman. Calling him his last hope.
I didn't expect 40k to turn into yugioh, but here we are!
Side note: do they sell actual physical cards of the emperor's tarot anywhere? I REALLY wan to buy some!
yea i want that too xD
I‘m really new to Warhammer 40k and your videos have really made me invested thanks a lot. Ps. Please more videos on the characters opinions of each other, I personally find this the most interesting.
Glad you like them!
This was a brilliant video to listen to as I was painting last night.
These kinds of lore discussions are great for reinterpretting my own understanding of the fiction.
The Emperor and The Golden Throne is something so pivotal to the setting and yet it's kind of overlooked.
I think what we have now is the possibility for different facets of him to appear.
The "human" Emperor, The "God" Emperor, The Dark King - it's interesting to consider.
Dr. Who is where I want to see 40k go. The Emperor gets unplugged, and this actually heals him. So many graybeards scream how this would ruin the grimdark. Here's a hint for the grimdark crew. If the Emperor does come back, what does he bring with him? If the Golden Throne is unplugged, maybe the Astronomicon goes dark. Mankind (at least temporarily) loses warp. Maybe some elder gods return, maybe on Mars. You can have a whole story cycle about a new dark age for 11th edition. And reset the setting for 12th edition. Sounds like a whole lot of fun. And the reincarnated Emperor... Gasp... Could even have avatars that get used in armies!
Sandman of Terra’s narration is on another level. The sheer drama
Bringing Dorn back as a psyker would really be a setting shake up
Bring his true form as psychic sentient fortress that span continents that can reform himself, just like Magnus and Leman Russ' true forms when they combated each other like kaijus/kaijin/Ultraman in old (and still running well) Japanese shows
@@ohamatchhams Ha, reminds me of when Sanguinius encountered a chaos space hulk the size of a solar system, thats what Dorn would be.
Not a chance.
I think you forget who he is.
"I am Rogal Dorn, Praetorian of Terra, primarch of the Seventh Legion Imperial Fists, seventh-found son, defiant and unyielding."
He broke Khorne with his sheer defiance.
Anybody who tried to alter him would find that he is the immovable object...right before they find out he is also the unstioppable force.
And they are caught between both.
@@TheSiladhielYou forgot to also add he’s the most boring primarch.
@@jasoninthehood9726You can have that opinion, but I’d argue he is one of the most interesting.
Dorn is a constancy in a universe that hates it. I mean the main antagonist is literally called Chaos. We have a universe where nothing stays the same, order is near extinct, yet one Primarch out of them all encapsulates constancy where no other brother even tries.
That’s unique.
20:00 - that book would probably have a title, the IP tag line, and then everything between the prologue and epilogue would be 10,000 pages saying the word "ow".
An audio book with millions of lines of "ow" using the voice from if the emperor had a tts device
20:00
The Emperor's motionless body was sitting on the Golden Throne for weeks now.
Broken parts of his body have been mended as much as they could and where they couldn't replaced by many machinery including one of his eye.
It was a painful sight to see for Dorn. Or anyone.
Seeing The Emperor, his father, the one who always shown the way in this state... This was like a never ending torment to his soul and mind.
During these last life long weeks, he was frequently finding himself craving for material pain to his body instead of this heavy curtain of grieve on his heart and mind.
But all he could do was just wait and watch.
Just like the Emperor's companions and Constantin Valdor do.
There are many problems which requires the Reagent's attention indeed. But none was important as this.
Rogal Dorn watched this macabre sight as he does for weeks in the colosssal throne room. Even though he was not willing to look at them, he could see and feel that The Companions are watching him like they are silently judging him too.
But for what?
Not being with The Emperor when he needs him to be? At he right moment and right place against The Lupercal?
No...
This shouldn't be it.
They were all aware of the actions of faul warp on that day. Their captain, legendary Constantin Valdor was also not able to stand with his Emperor during his final confrontation with his traitor son. But Dorn was able to feel the same despiciency from the Captain general too. This was not normal or fair.
Or maybe Dorn was just imagining these things he thought. Maybe he was not able to think clearly because of the abrupt absense of his father.
At that exact moment, Captain General's thundreous voice echoed inside the throne room and pulled him out of this sea of doubt which was his own making,
"You are not needed here, Dorn."
Rogal Dorn was the Reagent Of Terra for a long time and he was working together with Constantin for a long time too. He couldn't go too far and say that they were like brothers ofcourse. Because Constantin Valdor was always and foremost; The Emperor's bodyguard. This fact alone was always like an invisible wall between them during their service on Terra. And after the recent events, after half of his brothers' betreyal, that wall was much more higher and thicker than ever before.
Despite this fact, Dorn was believing that Constantin had a certain degree of respect for Dorn. Since now.
But right now, the Captain General's cold and calculated voice signaling otherwise.
Dorn struggled to contain his anger before retorting with rush,
"I'm not here because I'm needed."
I am here because I need it.
Dorn didn't utter outloud the last part of his thoughts ofcourse. This thought was for him alone.
He needed to be here. He needed to see his father. He needed the hope. A glimpse of a movement. Anything.
Anything to quench the fire of regret inside him.
Not the regret of not being able to help his father when he needs the most. For that sin; everyone except his brother Sanguinius and the Custodians died there were quilty.
The sin he and only he had; was misinterpret the signs and giving the order to put The Emperor on the Golden Throne...
Because it was not working. His father was not healing or communicating anyone. Dorn was understanding it now.
The Emperor was not dead yet. That must be a glimmer of hope during these dark days, yes. But somehow that wasn't the case.
Dorn was able feel this in his bones.
Something was terribly wrong.
***
Should I guys?
That scene with Malcadors last thoughts on Vulkan and Rogal Dorn were beautiful, I teared up
If the wounds of Big e have caused him "to lose years", those years might transfer into the number of years he has to be interred on the Golden throne in a kind of stasis
Take 15k years of damage
I am glad I am not the only who thought that.
It is worth noting, that it is the past years that The Emperor bleeds away. We have this directly stated by Horus. The Emperor is bleeding his past away.
What does that mean
@@diegoestradahernandez2728 The Emperor bleed past years. It is implied that if he had run out, he would have stopped existing.
But we don't get details.
@Kristian.B.Kristiansen, they might be hinting that he lost a bit of his personality
I like the idea that the throne is eating his past, his history in the universe, and when it's done eating, when there are no moments left of his past, the Emperor stops existing. By feeding the throne with the souls of psykers it is instead eating sacrificial souls and preserving the Emperor's past.
This also gives us an idea of how much the throne consumes. If thousands of lives are fed to the throne every day, thousands of years are consumed. Are all moments equal? Is a moment of the Emperor's life worth more than a mortal's? How long could the Emperor survive on his own?
Theres a passage in the dark imperium books when Gulliman speaks to the Emperor with something like "he could not remember his face, and Robute Gulliman forgot nothing" so that could also support this theory
Thanks for spending time with us
In Dune Leto 2 is Paul Maudib's son and the person who becomes the sandworm God Emperor who walks the Golden Path
If anyone is a fan of this grim dark and doesn’t see their roots in the golden path? They should be given no help
@@joewelborn825 Just like many dont see the Hawkmoon books influence.
Oooohhhh that’s why his name tickled my brain. I remember now. Dang i didn’t make this connection.
Clearly the best 40k lore channel by far ! Really appreciate ur content ! Keep it like this ! from France 🇫🇷🤜🏼🤛🏼
Amazing job, Sandman. Not just from a lore covering perspective, but the voice acting was immaculate. You really have a talent for this. ;)
This entire video just adds credit to the theory that _what_ is on the Throne right now is very different from _who_ was sat upon it.
Now, I can understand where Cawl and Guilliman's fears about the Emperor are coming from... :/
Edit: I now have a nagging fear that GW is trying to turn modern 40k into the next Horus Heresy, to the detriment of any other faction than the Imperium or Chaos. But we'll just have to wait and see. ;/
Started reading the Eisenhorn series last month as a result of this channel and I'm almost done the series now. Maybe I'll push to start the main 40k series later this year
Ahh amazing! Love knowing that my viewers read
I did the same thing when I started, it's a LOT of books but I'm not upset about my choice to dive into the HH after reading the Eisenhorn omnibus. I used the Ork books to break it up a bit here and there tho tbh.
"He bleeds years..." He has lost years of his immortal life by being essentially in stasis. I'd interpret that as meaning his perpetual "mechanisms" had been deactivated for a undisclosed amount of time by the wounds Horus (more accurate to say the Chaos Gods) inflicted.
Another amazing video. Quickly becoming my favorite lorecaster on the interwebs!
The view/like ratio is a crime. It has been more than half a day, and the likes are still in the triple digits. Considering the quality of content Sandman has always given us - I don't find this acceptable.
I don't usually do this - at least not for a RUclips channel, though this has more to do with my relationship, or now lack thereof, with RUclips itself. _Especially_ not for free. However I think it is time for me to begin directing some traffic from some of my sites to this channel. I guess I will look into contacting Sandman first, but if my secretary can't find a solid contact method today then I'll just take some liberties with it. Granted I do not foresee any real legal challenges to the idea - I've honestly never met someone who, having a public facing career, has ever turned down free advertising.
TL;DR - Sandman deserves far more attention than he is getting in the WH40K content community. Therefore - I'm going to help for awhile. At least until his numbers are closer to acceptable.
Dorne having powers to relive the past and therefore learn from his mistakes to build better defences every time he "lost"... he could explain his absence as him going back and back and back in time (in his head) to find a way to undo what has been done... to try to undo the death of his father.
He may end up being found and disturbed from "his work" and dragged back into teh present. That ties into the Taro card angle aswell...
I hope they don't try to bring Horus back now that they changed his death to be "normal" rather than being erased from the warp.
Bringing back Horus, Curze, Sanguinius and/or Ferrus Manus would be horrible mistakes, it would completely ruin the gravitas of their HH story arc and just turn 40k into Marvel. Who gives a shit when noone's ever truly dead.
I'm not a fan of bringing back any Primarch at all anyway. I know that ship has long since sailed, but I think the setting felt bigger and more compelling when it was about the common man's struggles. Making it all about a handful of demi-Gods and named characters who've been around since the Great Crusade makes it all feel like a much smaller universe.
@@Someone-hd2vuthe only primarchs who should return are the ones who are missing/ in stasis imo.
Great discussion, great theorizing, great stream. Absolutely agree with Quipster at the end. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long. I hope they go there soon to prepare the setting for a Dorn return. Not specifically for Dorn to return, although that would be huge as well, but just to give us a glimpse of the scouring and Dorn after he places the Emperor on the Golden Throne.
Corvus has to come back next.
Imagine trying to figure out the interpretation of some tarot cards for a long time and it roughly translates to "scratch my back"
Given the other developments afoot, I'll be surprised if they don't connect the Sigillite magic back to Enuncia.
This is truly an excellent channel with such a superb breakdown.
Salutations from Belfast Northern Ireland 🇬🇧
Another local man here also bud. Stay safe brother.
@@RobsonRoverRepair . You too! 🇬🇧👍👍
Also, and I might be remembering wrong, it was a lot of books ago...but doesn't this version completely erase the part of the Emperor giving Malcador the title Malcador The Hero!‽?
Malcador literally gave us life lessons/jewels. RIP
Reading that last chapter with Malcador was a significant emotional event. :(
Primarch Rog being a massive Warp fist reminds me of the old Ork gag power of fhe Fist of Mork (the hand of the player slapping down on the rabletop)
even better, use one of those foam hulk fists
The recombination of thousands of sacrificed and tortured pykers and shamans and one near god level entity of love mercy and loyalty sounds perfect for the emperor it is what he always was but more. The emperor was always torn between the desperate need to do things the scrambling and rushing and using others that resembles a tortured prisoner seeking an escape and a benevolent king that never wants to see his children or his subjects suffer. Both are evident in the lore creating space marines to the point that mutations happen and the process is deteriorating likewise punishing his son for worshiping him (likely because he feared that might become the impetus for his accession to the dark king) or his unwillingness to pull forces out to the webway in order to actually win the war against the traitors because he desperately wanted this project to work believing it would save everything. For his love and honor we see him trying to cure the night haunter of his madness, we see him offer Magnus forgiveness, we see him wanting to restore Ferris, not to mention him having to remove this aspect of himself because he still so deeply loves his son that it would cause him to hesitate. When these too halves of the emperor return it will be him as he was but simply more. He was always a man torn between two natures now those natures are only more extreme and powerful.
daaamm its been 2 weeks alrdy ?? amazing video man kkeep rewatching
Sorry, working on something big!
@SandmanofTerra Please let it be about when the Phonecian was a slutty runway model
Sandman, you are the man.
I want to do a Dorn stream with you 🙏
Could talk forever about my boi Rogal.
I would love to see something that would develop and smash the hell of of tyranids!! They way too OP for just some beings that just eat everything....I hate the idea of them Soo much!!!
I feel like Rogal Dorm DID receive a mission. However it was unstated since it would probably be spoilers.
Personally I believe that the emperor told Rogal of his Star fragment and the last 10k years Rogal found and raised him to prepare him for what's to come.
It's going to be a setup for when the emperor does awaken from the golden throne and he isn't the emperor anymore, in the end it's going to be The Emperor and his Darkness vs The Emperor and his light.
Truly amazing presentation... I know fuck all about warhammer but I really enjoy your videos.
Having got into 40K via the Witch Hunters of 3rd Ed, I always thought that the Imperial Living Saints were either Warp-bound reflections of a Sister's faith, or as a conduit of the Emperor. Hearing your aside implying how the likes of Celestine, Sabbat and Stern be all this AND more aligned with the Emperor's goodness that he cast aside - compassion, loyalty, honour, protectiveness of humanity - now brings all of that home. Thank you!
1:03:40 He could be a large animated statue. Something the Colossus of Rhodes. Only maybe smaller and otherwise made of a colored type of Marble. The body and skin flexes like you’d expect, but only when the movement is caused by him. If he gets hit, it doesn’t disperse through his body like normal force. It wears away at the point of contact only.
Amazing discussion, I can't believe I missed the original stream! I personally think that Dorn will return when Perturabo does. And I believe the plan is already in the works. After Emperor's Children, the next Legion to refresh will be codex supplement Iron Warriors with a Perturabo model; that is the rumor, anyway. I will be here for it. If I get into a horrible accident and I'm starting to flatline, I will hold on because I know I have be here for Perturabo! I wish I was joking.
I think it's pretty important to note big e cast of his loyalty.
Who does he then serve? Still mankind? Seems impossible.
I mean, it also seems imposible for Him to say _"i still love you Horus"_ one book after exorsicing himself of his love, but whatever.
@@leandrocastello309just like Necron keep soulling despite being soulless.
It would be awesome if Perti' made a deal with, and got powered-up, by Vashtorr
I feel like the Emperor is connected to the Old ones in some way. As he and Horus fought throughout the various settings in the warp, the Emperor showed aspects of Eldar in his martial moves, and at one point called a waaaaagh to kill Horus in one of the realities. Id imagine apart from an Orc the only other being who could call a waaaaagh is a "brain boy". I know its a stretch but I thought id bring it up here as if anyone could debunk or consider this it would be The Sandman of Terra.
possibility that Emperor is a old one, which survived and transformed is not that low
Jaghatai went for a ride on his bike, got into a race with some ork speed freaks and entered the webway where they met some windriders and they've all been racing ever since.
Two questions I have.
1. If the emperor dies on the golden throne and/or removed, does his fragment die as well? Is it possible that two entities can be the same yet different?
2. I have a theory that the Yellow King is specifically created to help fight the Dark King - should he manifest. This would be the top custodian and the star child, fighting the emperor on the throne to try and fuse the star child back in with the emperor.
Rogal will start to receive tarot messages from the Emperor.
One thing folks forget whilst mocking Dorn, he was the Consummate warrior, one of the Best Strategists amongst the Primarchs AND the Templar Crusading Aspect of The Imperial Fists and Later the Black Templars, comes from somewhere and that somewhere is HIM. He is a Crusading Paladin. People also often overlook that Dorn and the Fists were just as adept at laying siege as they were at defending against one.
I've yet to have another reading, this is good stuff to hear 👍, making me want to....
The passage about the emperor casting off part of himself sell for me that the wmperor always saw his sons as sons, and people seeing otherwise took the wrong message from the battery of meanings often psychically conveyed to people when the emperor speaks
51:34 It could also be that the Emperor turns into a Chaos God (aka the Dark King) upon the reunion with the part of his soul he cast off.... Reason I say this is because it is in this moment he relinquishes his godlike powers and stops his ascension.. So, he blasted all the warp power he had accumulated - which would have turned him into the 5th Chaos God - into the Warp alongside his love and compassion... It is not too far fetched that a reunion with this part would simply restart the process of him becoming the Dark King, especially considering this fragment of his soul has grown much, much more powerful ever since
Maybe The emperor bleeding years means he'll be in a false death for those years, hence him sitting on the throne for over 10,000 years now
I know they say that if the Emperor is removed from the Golden Throne, a litany of demons would stream into real space through the Webway, which kind of makes me hope that Abaddon gets what he wants. In his moment of victory, as he has thrown the Emperor from the Throne, he realizes the truth of what the Emperor was holding back. But, what would have happened if Dorn had NOT put the Emperor on the Throne? If the Emperor died, he would have regenerated, and returned.
I also find myself wondering if ALL of this, the Heresy and the resulting fallout, could have been avoided if the Emperor had told Horus about the Webway project instead of just going "you're in charge now, deuces!!" If he told Horus what he was doing, and WHY he was doing it, could the Heresy have been avoided?
I saw the years of bleeding as explaining why he doesn't just recover - if he took 10,000 years of damage, then he can't recover for that amount of time and would need life support to bridge the gap until the damage is finally "healed" and he returns to his immortal self.
Mr.Bones40k has some interesting theories on the Primach's powers and roles.
I think changing the state of the emperor on the golden throne would be a disservice to the setting. Like you said, commorragh would need a solution first. And honestly, the golden throne is probably the most compelling linchpin and mysterious technology in all of 40k. The big E should stay on the golden throne in perpetuity. Warhammer doesn't need midichlorians. Lets the mysterious things remain mysterious
Would be funny if the emperor wasnt there this entire time and it was just the mechanicus operating the astropathic thingy another way
I think when it comes to old and new lore we have to think of it as what the people know vs what really happened rather than retcons both are true like guardsman still believing in olanius pius standing up to horus where it's actually a combo of 2 different people
I sense the potential for a clash between the throne emperor and star child.
I liked the idea of the emperor being taken from the throne by Russ so he could be reborn or something like that (after a long time), and in that return Russ would take his place like Odin, and who would come as the 5th God of Chaos, or just a Minor god of war, would be Sanguinius
I beleive your point on the throne and the emperor sustaining each other is furthermore backed by the fact that Vulkan was suppose to take Malcador's place in case things went even more sideway.
I may be mistaking, but him being a perpetual with maybe unknown power could have been a good zombie fit
In this episode, Leetu teaches Rogal Dorn to trust in the Splleen of the Cards!
I always liked the idea that the emperor was a perpetual like Vulcan but he couldn't regenerate because he had to operate the golden throne.
Well yea that’s like saying the sky is blue lol.
They just saw the device kill a perpetual and thought it was a good idea to put the void father on it? 🤡
Holy thrones!! I just realized something!
The Chaos Gods didn't want to kill the Emperor, They want to trap the Emperor ON THE GOLDEN THRONE!
Where he is helpless and tormented for eternity till he truly becomes the Dark King
26:20 That's beautifully worded
I want Jaghatai to come back riding some kind of demon-engine with a keeper of secrets or bloodthirster in it or something out of a nightmare (aka whatever hellish shit the drucchi create).
Dorn's superpower will probably be something related to his wrath, maybe he'll release a double of himself that's full-on attack mode, an unstoppable sword to his impervious shield... Would be cool for him to have any meaning to his ability to resist Khorne's calling having a play on his warp thing...
God i wish Malkador inferior from Cawl using mentioned writings of the Sigilight
Bleeding years in my book would me. Immortal and unaging. The wounds aging/pushing closer to end of life….. while not dead, aged. To the point of an old feeble
Person…. Unable to physical do much, not being as bright, but having moments of clarity….
I think the real danger is that if the emperor is removed from the Golden throne without having that part of himself that he cast off - the part that seems to be backing the lion - there to join with him at that moment when he will finally die and come back fully. He'll have all that power, all that tortured time in the piston loop of pain with NONE and he'll reincarnate with NONE of the love, hope, or empathy necessary to tame it. And THAT would be..... terrifying.
Honestly I think something like that is quite likely to happen.
What we know is that the starchild is the representation of the emperor's "good side". It is also implied that said child will be grounded in the materium. All this makes me think that the starchild won't be a warrior but a guide. An administrator and strategist, a leader of men.
Having that part of the big E residing on Terra would allow the rest to manifest in the Warp. A god of discipline at all costs. A being embodying order, but uncaring about the cost of it.
@@Mortarion-xt9wp
When they split the galaxy in 2, I was suspicious that they were going to split the Imperium into 2 factions.
A Science, rational faction - like big Es original plan, and a dark superstitious faction like the imperium is now, but turned up to 11.
@@kevinshort3943 this is an interesting thought. A problem I see with it are the characters we know and love.
After all if one half devolves a lot of heroes would end up in it.
“Bleeds years” could be an indication of how long he would need to be on the thrown before he’s A-Ok and good to go 👍
That's exactly what I thought too.
It's throne, you just said the past tense of throwing something.
@@DeathBYDesign666 my mother is my sister
Tzeentch's foresight is greater than the Emperor's
If the emporer ends up becoming another chaos god, how the hell could humanity ever survive then? They are barely holding on now.
Love the mystic dorn idea too!
"Their fight wasn’t only physical…. But also via cards"
Horus: Urewa turn! Duro!
I already love leetu but if they write a book about him hunting and killing erebus I think he would become my favorite character
All powerful immortal emperor: dies and has all these problems, despite having life support and a thousand souls sacrificed to him a day
His son: dies and doesn’t do any of this and doesn’t have nearly as many problems
How crazy would it be if Vashtor turned into to be the Hammer of Olympia
Valdor is currently building the star child’s army in the Warp with The Star Child’s New Warp Malcador
So if the golden throne is xenos tech, where did it come from and who was it originally intended for?
Somewhere else it was implied it was eldari/old one, and used in some way with the webway.
@@kevinshort3943 So basically Old Ones' techs, humans are likely being one of failsafe plans for Old Ones to have living beings overcome both Necrons and tumors (Chaos) within The Warp
It was a key part in the webway project. Maybe a way to establish a constant and stable portal with the webway or, if i may throw a theory, it could be a webway generator that was hidden there from the necrons and their gods
Big E found all the Eldar tech under the Earth as it was once apart of the Eldar Empire.
Sorry new to the setting and trying to get to grips with it. But is this the classic grim dark case of everyone believes they are doing the right thing by putting him on the throne when in fact it’s the exact opposite? If they just took the emperor off the throne would he be able to just heal himself? But he’s stuck in this never ending torture because people believe they are doing the right thing by keeping him on there?
The Emperor went to the throne willing, long story short one of his sons f-up and poked a hole in the fabric of existance in holy terra, so the emperor need to sit on the throne to keep this hole shut otherwise legions of demons will come flooding through and anihilating everything that exists. So from humanity's perspective:
The emperor dies - Humanity is wiped
The emperor is taken from the throne - Humanity is wiped
The throne fails because of lack of maintance (happening) - Humanity is wiped
The only thing keeping humanity from being anihilated is the unbending will of a human that's being tortured for 10.000 years just to keep humanity alive, and he's dying.
The emperor explained his foresight to RA didn’t he ? He says he can see the start and the finish but everything inbetween is basically a jumbled fumbled timeline.
Yeah that's basically how I view it. I'll have to double check the quote
@@SandmanofTerra it’s an interesting point I feel as though people forget to mention when speaking on the emperor’s actions and there in choices made leading up to said actions and I feel as though it does alter what the story may turn into if he truly knows what he’ll end up becoming… here’s just hoping I see him step off of the golden throne in some way before I hit 40
Another great one
It would be interesting if the end direction GW takes the storyline is that the half of the Emperor's soul on the throne firmly believes in the Imperial Truth while the other half believes in the power of the Human Soul and the Imperium becomes divided over this issue as the same old xenos and warp issues keep happening
Rereading it, I thought Abnett had the chance of tying a lot of incongruencies and ill explained strangeness and retcons by this losing of years, but they just came up with the idea way too late
So emperor chooses not to die on the throne.
the fragment of the emperor's soul is a parrallel to the story of pandora's box.
Good stuff!
toput this in perspective , no one would wanna F with the Sanq but Horus like just squished him like a fly
With what we know about Bequin, and the fact that the star child is described as a little girl, it makes you wonder if in Pandemonium may end with Beta becoming a grail for the Emperor eventually, maybe
Can 100% confirm. If the emporer returns he will definitely be a chick.
And wasn’t it a little girl that was the only person able to navigate through Tzneech’s crystal palace?
Is it possible that the future that played out the way it needed to with the cards? Emperor on the throne stops him from returning without his emotions, now that part is stuck there while the “good” parts of the emperor finds its way back to its other half.
He did tell Horus that he both forgave him and that he would see him again, and that was AFTER He had already sustained Every blow. If even obliterated horus can come bac..
Perpetuals have come back intact even after complete annihilation of their physical form. If Vulcan lives, the Emporer certainly can too.
That final fight felt cartoonish at one point with the whole beams of energy from chests and whatnot.
What if the half of the Emperor's mind that's been on the Golden throne is the chaos God Mallice?
Brilliant 🙌
What if Beckwyn is wrong and Valdor is not the king in yellow but it's the starchild and Valdor has been there protecting that piece of the emporer and acting at its behest so people think it's Valdor
Great concept.
@@Abefroman-lq3md Well Russ and Valdor both had visions at the same time and left maybe Valdor to be the protector and Russ to find the catalyst to restore the 2 parts the tree of life and like with Guilliman for it to work someone has to kill what remains on the throne and thats where Cypher comes in but not yet because all the pieces aren't in place pretty wild but thats the way I'd write it
i like the thought that after the emperor was placed on the throne, every single time someone looked at him there was a different guy sitting on the throne as he reincarnates over and over again.