The Best & Worst of Roguelike: Honkai Star Rail VS Arknights
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- IS3's biggest mistake was removing the Gummy bread item.
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SUPAH, Arknights, Gummy, Gacha games, Arknights Gameplay, Arknights Guide, Operator Showcase, Should you build, Honkai Star Rail, Huohuo, Simulated Universe, Swarm Disaster, Planar Infinity, Integrated Strategies 3 
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![Tsukinogi is Terrible By Design, Here's Why [Arknights]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KyWZapIAvKs/mqdefault.jpg)
Ill support you on patreon but dont shout my name out whenever you make your next video i dont want to be associated with you
Now I knowbyou're associated with SUPAH
😂🤣
I took a screeny 😈
Bro you got caught in 4K
LMFAO 😂😂😂
20 minutes of no Gummy simping, what a miracle.
I can tell he wanted to 😭
I feel like Gopnik Bear got kinda glazed up. That's something.
fair argument sir but me like seeing funny colored numbers so elation and nihility paths are best for seizure addicts like me
Hey Supah, I'll just let you know, today I was playing in a sandpit with all my elementary school friends, having a lot of fun. I was also listening to this video with my headphones on, so that others would not be bothered. But suddently, disaster struck! Someone bumped into me, and the headphones disconected. And they now knew I watched Supah's videos. I'll just let you know, today I lost all my elementary school friends while playing in the sandpit.
I strongly disagree.
Not on the specific points of criticism you made of IS3, which consitute a valid analysis of some important balancing issues of the mode, but on the overall opinion that Star Rail has one of the best roguelite modes in gacha games, especially if compared with IS3; in fact, I would say that Star Rail has one of the WORST roguelite modes ever made, including Swarm Disaster. I'll try to be as brief as possible with my points:
1) Star Rail's decision-making component is extremely straight-forward. Even in IS, a mode where the most determining factor is not really the decisions you make, there is more depth to your decision-making (depth in this context = having to actually think when you pick a power-up, something that is common in most decently-to-well made roguelike / lite, and when that component is not as important there is at least something else to balance its absense, such as in Hades, where there are very obvious choices to make most of the time but skill expression is at its maximum). Swarm Disaster kind of fixes this problem, because the parh variety is more relevant than the base mode, but the optimal path is still kind of obvious, whereas in IS (and therefore in IS3, I'll just use IS because the point I'm trying to make is that despite the IS3 issues you mentioned the mode is still better as a rougelite) the "obvious path" changes a lot according to the characters you got, the ones you have in your collection and your level of skill (first and third variable are irrelevant in Stat Rail, unless you believe that the skill expression in the two games is comparable, take I personally disagree with);
2) When decision-making doesn't matter as much, team-building (or deck-building for similar games) and skill expression are the next two things to take into consideration. IS3 in particular suffers from a team-building issue (Texas Alter is too braindead of a pick), but at least in IS you CAN teambuild. There is an added level of depth to the game where you need to understand which characters are optimal to clear each map, something that you quite literally CANNOT (AK reference) do in SU, because the way Star Rail is designed as a gacha makes it so that you don't have access to many built characters, and thus the game is structured in a way that doesn't require to use many characters, removing an important element of rougelikes. For the skill expression part, I hope I don't need to explain why I belive one of the two games allows forsignificantly more of this element than the other.
3) Last but definitely not least, the "fodderisation" topic (a word I just made up).
A good rougelike / lite has this thing called "the stages in the middle actually matter". As a person who has extensively played both games, I can tell you that (unless you're the kind of guy to go for max risk CC, but that's such an irrelevant amount of people that it's not worth considering) in IS the stages in the middle of the road are actually at least a little challenging, meaning that you need to pay attention and put actual effort to clear these nodes, thus rewarding you for your skills and decision-making (see points before). In SU, even in Swarm Disaster, this phase lasts approximately 1 - 7 days, 7 assuming that you're very busy with work. In Hades, a game that you consider to be very good, all the bossfights matter from a certain difficulty onward; in Star Rail, once you farmed enough passives (NOT skill rewarding in the slightest), the middle section of SU becomes trivial, because the only thing that matters is the boss, meaning that you could've just skipped to that point in terms of gameplay.
There are other fundamental flaws with SU that are related to the way Star Rail is structured (artifact farming is often the main culprit), but I believe what I wrote explains my position on the subject well enough. Do you believe things like these, which are fundamental elements of any rougelike / lite, are less serious than the issues you presented in the video? Because, from a personal standpoint, I think that the points you discussed simply mean that the game balance of IS3 is worse than IS2 (but to be honest, it's not like I believe SU to be incredibly well balanced either), but "balance" is only one of the many core elements that a person that's making a proper analysis of these kind of modes should take into account, and SU is missing significantly more important stuff, in my opinion.
I'll add a little to this:
SU is "more fun" that IS. That much is absolutely true, but that does not speak of the gameplay quality at all. SU is faster, simple, less punishing, and the blessings being relevant stat upgrades makes the mode overall "feel better". However, this is merely a matter of formula; AK has always been a game that doesn't really care about its gameplay's feeling, because its primary focus was to create some depth, and IS encapsulates this: it "feels worse", because it's slower, more punishing, with less damage multipliers, but all of this is completely irrelevant when it comes to game balance, game depth and rewarding the player for their skills; things that AK does well, whereas HSR intentionally does not to appeal to a more casual audience. So, if you ask me which mode I would recommend to the average person, SU would be the choice, but to a more hardcore gamer, I would recommend IS every time (I agree with IS3 being the worst one, btw, I really did agree with your critics overall)
I agree!
I do want to add that in +15 (or close to it) every stage matters a lot, the wrong endgame path can and will end your run due to a horrific Ubi Bona Somnia or whatever its called, and other stages are just the regular amount of scary. Requiring more strategising.
And the early stages atleast arent as braindead then
To add to that, both gamemodes have different design philosophies behind them which needed to be taken into account for this discussion. SU is made with the intention of being a farming gamemode and something you can do casually. It's simple, you can stack blessings and do a huge nukee and that gives your brain a dopamine hit. IS on the other hand is very challenging and the die is specifically designed to fuck you over. You can call it problematic but it is a design decision they went with and it forces you to adjust your playstyle according to which operator in your team got cursed. The die by itself introduced enough gameplay variety and I think it does it's job very well.
@@CorvoA77ano I think i'll agree with supah by a bit regarding the die rolls. Your current run can break you if you don't have a luxury of operators collected to offset the one operator that got fucked over by rng that is carrying your run. The die definitely introduced a gameplay variety, but if it rolls bad against the one thing that's keeping you alive, that can be frustrating. Good news is, there are way to heal the Rejection. Bad news is, there's no consistent way to do it. I feel like its a missed opportunity for them not to make the Safe House have a permanent option heal an operator's Rejection.
@@jonaldbalingit884The design for IS3 is the same as Stultifera Navis. It is to punish you for not exploiting the mechanics.
The bad part is the debuffs are punishing but no way to control that. Punishment or run end from a bad decision is acceptable but punishment or run end from RNG is hard to swallow. Especially if the RNG is static in difficulty and not escalating.
Making rerolls more prominent gives the players control for the RNG and not the game randomly screwing you over.
IS in general has always been fun for me. but I do have to admit that IS2 is the best mode so far. hopefully IS4 is better than both.
Personally I’m pretty surprised by how consistently the global reception of IS3 has been opposite to CN. On CN IS3 is often viewed as a monumental improvement to IS2 in almost every way compared to many global players preferring IS2. Reception to IS4 is good, but not as good as 3 on CN. If the preferences different servers seem to hold are anything to go by, then maybe global will view IS4 as a good middle ground.
@@caster269 I loved IS2 when it came out. After taking a break until IS3 released, I found it to be much more fun than the previous one. Revisiting is2 just feels lackluster to me, it has less variety in gameplay and a little too easy for me.
But i guess for the average player, that's good enough.
In terms of is2 it has the better asthetic, the better songs ,the better story (I don't like the doomer story is3 has), has gay men ,and doesn't have DA DICE ,if only they continued with is2 with monthly updates , the last update was cool ,but there's one thing they have in common
WHY IS IT HARD TO GET THE 3RD ENDING ,this is legit ,the only game where it's hard to get the bad bad ending, the 3rd endings is only achievable in my dreams at this point
@@caster269Litterally no lmao
Only ones that saw IS3 as an improvement were the hardcore players
IS3 was so hated that they had to completely rework how the classes worked in IS4
@@kyarumomochi5146 you just dont know how hard is4 is :)
Honestly though the worst part about IS is that you need to use your own operators, so when not litterally everyone is maxed i am forced to pick the same operator for each class every time if i want to have the possibility to upgade them later
Was never a big IS player but even just picking who gets the debuff from the dice would have made a big difference.
The debuff actually helped me in many cases, especially the one that halfed the stats but also halfed the reploy.time, it allowed me to cheese a few runs
Also half of his critiques apply for fucking is2 as well
Is2 is much worse than is3
@Neisse but powerscale is 3 is doing more good than is 2 though
I like Simulated Universe, but I HATE having to farm relics there, since a run can take on average 10-15 minutes depending on how strong your team is and your luck with blessings and curios.
Tbf, you only need to defeat the first boss in a run and then reset. No reason to go through the entire thing.
I'm so lucky to have jing liu , with her you have a very high chance to destroy the enemies and she works well with a lot of paths ( maily Remembrace if the boss doesn't have ice res )
@@alak2416I like using hunt path for her especially if the boss summons a lot of adds
@@Jardrin well 2 complete runs already fill your weekly quota
faster that way
@@Jardrin at that point, you might as well go through and get the other 3 sets of rewards, especially since after the last boss you get 2 and it only gets faster if you've got a good run going.
Nah dude, seriously? There is no point to continue playing SU after you played it just once, because all next runs will look ABSOLUTELY the same, no matter which path you take. Whats the gameplay difference between Nihility path and Elation? There is none, you just pick like 10 blessings of your chosen path, and its done. Will you beat it or not solely depends on your team - if you bring a decent team with decent artifacts = you win, if you bring some trash wearing garbango and choose a path unrelated to their abilities = you lose. All encounters are same, all fights are same, all progress is same, etc. Worst part, is that they force you to do SU to farm "planar ornaments set", but RNG is so fking bad, that in a hundred+ runs i didn't get even A SINGLE decent "sphere", and "self-mod resins" are.the only real way to get what you need (just to get correct main stat, substats would still be trash).
The only time when SU was ACTUALLY GOOD and fun to play - was when they introduced limited "Planar Infinity" event, which was removed after a week.
And im not gonna argue about AK roguelike, because i only played IS1 and never bothered playing the new one. All gacha roguelikes are literally garbage, but IS1 was somewhat decent among all those gachas i played, cuz it wasn't "no-efforts-from-devs 1 braincell mode" and had some variety (still too simplistic (and very depended on your knowledge of how enemies spawn on maps) to actually call it a good roguelike tho).
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh
do you seriously not feel the need to play around with every path? it's better than scouting for certain paths because they are a requirement.
I for one love how elation makes my herta viable, and nihility is gonna ultraboost my sampo.
It makes every unit viable with half decent artifacts, at the very least
like why the hell would you want a gamemode that's not completeable unless you micromanage certain characters? did we forget we're playing a gacha??????
and I KNOW arknights ain't all about skill expression because tell me how I'm supposed to skill my way through a tsukinogi and greyy on a team
(cope is saying skill comes in the teambuilding, it does but applying that in such a regard where using certain units to their full, or any extent is oftentimes impossible is just stupid)
@@ghetoknight7801 I didn't talk about difficulty, i was talking about gameplay difference. Planar infinity event was pretty much an example of how it should have been. If i'm doing SU - im doing it on auto in alt-tab. Even so, it still feels like an annoying waste of time.
Funny enough as a person missing Texalter, I end up using Mayer in IS3 runs, her robots add hit absorb, block and aoe stun that affects air.
I do agree mayer is good for IS3 doesn't make up for everything since her robot still suck
@@waskithonugroho3955 Mayer's robots are surprisingly tanky, having almost as much defence as Ling's S3 dragons(unfused) And slowing enemy ASPD for almost no DP. They make the first 3 levels pretty straightforward and later on, even without E2 she can use them as stun bombs to knock down hovering enemies
@@Sceptera I know her robot has some utility but still she is no replacement for ling or texas because her robot range is just 1 tile and only block 1 IIRC. Still I found her really useful tho even considering her to e2
I just borrow her as my starter
Honestly, while we talking about collectibles being just stat increases, considering the amount of operators game has to offer sometimes having just stats is more than enough to make some ops much stronger than they normally are, like making Gnosis permafreeze on normal attacks with status duration and/or aspd relics, BP and any other "next attack" skill shredding shit with atk on skill activation relics etc, which is pretty big for someone who just genuenly loves AK gameplay and wants just a little more from time to time and IS really comes into clutch
But the thing you haven't mentioned much is a difficulty system. And uhhh IS2 hard more is like the worst fucking thing AK has to offer, like I get it, it supposed to be hard and stuff but why it supposed to just fuck me over from the first second? Do I look like a person who would gladly accept Ursus Chachek and a +1 squad limit as a "pay-off"? Of course I'm fucking not, wtf is that shit. Like, hear me out, surely, IS3 got a problem where you either go on Ascension 0 and it's so piss easy you can do whatever the fuck you want and chances are you'll still easily win, or go for like 15 instead and you'll be fucked over somewhere on f4-5 easily, but the way difficutly handeled there is MUCH better, like you get cursed relic only on f3, and they are not as significant as the starters you get on IS2 hard mode, and even if your core op was fucked over by dice you still able to adapt, especially when you have multiple of these ops, or you can just cleanse the debuff entierly with some encounters and collectibles, like, you at least have a fair start where you can build some shit and see how it goes, in is2 hard you're just screwed from the very first second and either you have your squad ready for shit like beast taming emergency with usrus chachek or L+Ratio lose your f3 buff on the start for this
On a smaller note, IS2 was fucking boring in terms of collectibles because like the most gamebreaking shit you could get is as much aspd as possible and that's basically the only interesting build for is2... Which is just a whole deep investigation now so you don't even need to play normal is2 runs for this only "fun" strat, while in IS3 I can see my Chong casually hitting for like 20k each hit because I have like 3 supporters with "supporters gives 20% atk for allies in range" including other supporters, which means you can easily buff both Chong and Skalter this way, and there's much more fun shit with how high you can go with both atk and aspd in some cases, or just "all ranged op gets camo" like what?
To summarize, I feel like gameplay progression in IS3 seems much more fair and interesting, opposing IS2, while dice can surely ruin your run, it still gives you enough reason to actually think because you might want to adapt to the debuff (or want to catch said debuff because honestly concentration disorder is buff for like so much ops while actually ruining so little of them in return), and you can still at least have a start to see how good is your rng today AND NOT JUST DIE IN A FIRST FUCKING FLOOR BECAUSE OF GOD FORSAKEN URSUS CHACHEK, and I honestly think since the only "bad" (but I would rather call it questionable) thing is removed while most other things (approach to a difficulty for example) are still there in IS4 it should be even better
P.S. SU is just a weekly jades/planars and nothing interesting because you literally can't lose on normal SU worlds at sertain point, while swarm have no reason to be played when you got all jades, not even giving any enjoyment because you're already sick of normal SU at this point because of weekly amimir anyways. While it's not bad that I'm literally op in SU, because I sometimes play IS3 on diff0 just for that, but while playing higher difficulty on IS3 gives me more point towards the reward tree (I'm at least have a reason to play on higher difficulty if I want to, even tho it's fair to say that rewards are one-time and this will soon be irrelivant), I get nothing towards normal SU if I play on swarm, it's like 2 different things, which is fair ngl, but I have literally no reason to challenge myself in HSR while I do have reason to challenge myself in AK (even if so slightly)
You don't even get Orundum in IS omegalol
old fan is considered game breaking relic and all it does add atk
Theres another cool item you missed with an ACTUAL SYNERGY, the bloodbath item thats for guards, which gives the operator 1 or 2 sp (cant remember) when they attack an enemy, and thorns
the synergy comes from the fact that this item considers the poison dmg from thorns as an actual attack, thus basically giving thorns an insta charge skill
Gummy's bread item was removed because Ceobe ate it
Me who never play it at all because i hate Seaborn enemies: "I see."
Overall some very good points brought up in this video.
My strategy for D15 is the same everytime. Paranoia Illusion? Schwarz. The Last Knight? Schwarz. Ishar'mla? Schwarz. Gravestone? Schwarz. Water and Fire Union? Believe or not, Schwarz. All my drafts look the same, it's just Schwarz + the 4* and 5* that I like. And I don't mind it, the fact that this team beats D15 so consistently is nice. All of the aforementioned clears are on my channel.
I do agree Deep Investigations and Monthly Squads in IS3 were a huge miss since they were at D0 and deviated little from a standard run. IS2 did it so much better. Even the "bad" monthly squads like the Tomimi squad and the Aosta squad, I remember because of how humorously bad they were and how scrappy I felt for figuring them out.
I play IS3 on difficulty 1, so I guess I’ll never understand the true suffering.
Wait until you play until difficulty 10 onwards. Man I'm still stuck at difficulty 10.
Is there a reason to torture yourself like that? Are there permanent rewards behind it?@@sky6089
this
if pepes not enjoying the difficulty - just do not increase it
@@sky6089 I don’t think I’ll ever reach difficulty 10 lol. I’ll just keep playing at difficulty 1.
@@sky6089 that never will be me. I did D7 for the medal and now I'm playing on D0/1 and have no intention whatsoever to do anything more. Imo they balanced the fun out of the mode. I don't play roguelikes for balanced, I play them to either get crused or feel like a god depending on the rng I get, and IS3 got rid of the most fun item which was the gold chalice. There was 0 good reasons to do that.
In short, roguelikes are supposed to be multiple stage gameplay where you have plenty of sway but are still at the whims of rng. The difference between the two is that a roguelike in theory is not a roguelike in practice, if you have the ability to make rng do absolutely everything you want, it’s not a roguelike because you’ll almost always get the strat you wanted and there’s no need to adapt, and conversely, if you don’t really have the ability to control any element of it, it’s also not a roguelike.
I really wished you went a little more in depth about what are your issues with the binding of issac, yes I had some runs where I don't get good items but I still manage to clear the run and in other cases I rigged the game so hard I become unstoppable before the mother fight.
Roguelike is about randomized game that requires players to make the right decisions at the right time in order to overcome the randomness, which is why there is such a large skill gap in IS, and players only need to play a few more rounds to realize that they're learning. "Player agency" doesn't mean that the game needs to hand you everything - in fact, it's about fighting the game through skill.
There's a reroll button in both the curse and relic choices, so you can decide whether or not to spend dice to reroll if you think the relic/operator is worth more than a dice. That's what I love about IS3, it offers so many different avenues depending on your situation, and that's what a rouguelike is really all about.
Whoops bad roll, screw your stats doesnt happen in simulated universe, it happens in artifact farming. Every star rail player knows, they always keep landing on DEF
Just roll good bro it's THAT easy
@@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH i need to practice rolling better, any tips?
That easy
yeah but at least my goat artifact set will make danheng do damage
max investment frostleaf dropping damage was my biggest upset picking up arknights and my biggest motivator to drop her
even if rng locked like at least I can make my units work?? how u tellin me strategy (teambuilding) in arknights is having yatoalt, texalt, and eyja
or killing yourself trying to replicate them in other units
Me when I'm completely disingenuous
Idk how SU is rn but when i played the game (up until just a bit before swarm came out) all SU runs were exactly or mostly the same since all cards you got were mostly the same, items did literally nothing to change the run outside of maybe the one item that lets you get more items from boxes (but even then it was mostly just when is my hp gonna do the funny 1% with 0 actual gain) and ofc so called "teams" i used were all the same due to mihoyo awful gacha + character building system
Meanwhile Arknights
the character building is still an issue but you have things like support unit and random free ops you can potentially get from recruit vouchers that can push you into actually trying new things
The items part was just completely wrong
even boring items like deploy/squad +1 can drastically change how you approach the run since more deploy allows you to use summoners or fast deploy units on top of your normal squad
ofc theres the 100% atk on skill item you showed that is one of my personal favorites which promotes usage of those spammable fast skills (i've had pallas hit for 10k x2 thanks to those items)
or 2sp on hit for guards/chain casters that are massive run changers on top of plenty of others
I do agree tho that IS2 is better than 3 due to no dice or that cringe curse system and generally having fairer final bosses than IS3 and the stupidest thing about IS being that run can just instantly end if you do a single mistake but that is/was kinda the same for SU since losing a unit means you are pretty much down 25% of your team
In my personal opinion (pre swarm) SU was one of the most boring roguelite modes i've played in gacha but me not really enjoying HSR gameplay/combat certainly didnt help while i still can start IS 2 or 3 run any day and have a great time and it even encouraged me to build random shitter units just to try and use them in IS
/blog
Ok...
well, SU makes no intentions to change the run, HSR mechanics hardly allow for that
that's like asking for puzzles in a minecraft dungeon
and characters being the same is hardly an issue if you actually enjoyed the characters you were using (????)
unless you literally have no characters you should be able to use almost any team in SU, which is a huge upside
meanwhile in arknights I have to struggle to make frostleaf viable, even if there are variety in strategies they're still demanding of particular roles to a high degree, and "roles" in arknights are much more limiting
"support unit and random free opps leading you to try new things" ???
the support unit is going to still be a subversion of the roles you'd have filled in a regular run, that isn't "trying new things"
and a single unit isn't opening up an entirely new strategy unless your teams already fit to apply them
yes sure you have to use different teams and strategies to clear IS, but making it a requirement means the game itself is extremely rigid, and I define staleness as being forced into something just as much as using the same thing over and over again
idk maybe I use every character in SU under every path and then I'll get bored, but arknights was just a fcking headache
A gamemode that exemplifies game mechanics, because the game itself is founded on various crucially relevant mechanics? GREAT
A gamemode that is so reliant on those mechanics, it discourages the usage, and upbringing of already linearly investible characters to a heavy degree, in a gamemode where the character options available for engaging use is already limited? Yeah, no...
When I still play HSR, SU is the only fun part in the game where in every run I pick same team & try pick buff that make my team became more powerful.
I rarely play IS but when I have the mood to play it I will spend hours to try it over and over again with different team only to failed in mid run and I only able complete the run once, make it something special about IS for me.
I only try IS3 one time when it released but after this video I probably going to play IS3 instead maxing lv in IS2
I think some of your criticism on IS3 is unfair here.
1. You don't like the die because it removes player agency. Your hate is valid, but if you hate it that much then just pick the resourceful squad that reduces the chance of the die screwing you over. It also gives you more dice to reroll to further reduce bad rolls. I would argue the entire point of this squad is to give more player agency for people like you that hate the die rolls.
2. You don't like rejection debuffs because they can ruin your run. You are exaggerating here, it's not that serious of a debuff. Most of the time they either don't matter or you can just work around them. Player agency is still here because you have ways to remove them, if you want to.
3. "Every run eventually becomes the same run." That really depends on what operators you currently have in your account. For my account this is definitely not the case. Yes, I pick Texas alter every chance I get, but having the same 1 operator every run does not make the run similar to others. Ok maybe gummy too.
You cant reroll the debuff on your op more than once, and its also rng, when I get a serious debuff on a crucial op twice I just quit the run, also theres very little ways to remove the debuff. Theres what? 2 encounters that can remove it, a relic that is locked behind u doing some hard missions and getting the encounter that can "insta E2" the op if u remove it from the entire floor run. Theres no relic that I can get from the Trader or after a run to remove it. Also some of the debuffs like the -50% on the op are just too cruel tbh.
Meh, IS was designed to be a long term gamemode while its true it could improve that gamemode doesnt require you to farm it weekly. SU is HSR weeklies lmao no shit they wont have better player agency also you forget that what makes IS different is that they put routes to get different endings. In HSR world 6 is always the deer, world 4 is always kafka no changes at all and that honestly makes that "roguelike" bland and boring to play its just an expanded cavern of corrosion. I agree with how bland deep investigations and monthly squad were this season of IS.
Not to mention planar set only drop from SU
The scam gacha rates and gear grinding should be enough to deter anyone from HSR. Not to mention how samey each SU run feels.
and yet it's still more popular than arknights
Definitely didn't happen to me. Nope, not at all. I Definitely didn't lose an is3 ending 2 run to gopnik nuh uh
Jokes aside, that was fuming, considering I just wanted to do ending 2 to get all endings once, ending 2 is already hard, harder than ending 3 imo. than you put that stupid rng in is-3 as well
Was rewatching some of your videos today lol, now theres a new one lets goooo
Once i get the themed background i will never touch IS3 ever again
great video it’s such a shame that they put the dice in is3 cuz when you play N15 one bad roll can make you restart a whole run again but I still really like is3 tho because of the theme 😢
If I'm underleveled, I can solo IS3 by borrowing a maxed out Ling from my friend list. If I'm underleveled in HSR, I can't clear the level 60 recommended simulated universe, because even if I cheese it, I will ultimately lack the DPS to finish fights quick enough which will make the enemies attack harder and kill my underleveled characters, and I can't borrow characters for SU so I depend on my own gacha pool.
okay, it isn't a point to game design if there exists a character that's so unequivocally broken simply the action of being allowed to borrow them is going to mass boost your team comps
and you're playing a grind game anyways, you'd expect investment to be a barrier for higher levels already
at least, I like it when the grind I'm familiar with is the only barrier because I know I'm eventually going to get there anyways
and then at that point I can have fun making any of my units pass the dps check
i thought i was crazy the entire times because i feel like the difficulty multiplier in IS 3 is much harder than any IS and it's more annoying rather than challenging each time the difficulty increases.. because i found many people said in the game discussion that they didn't have that much of a difficult time so i think that was just a 'me' problem not adapting to the game mode. now i find it otherwise after reading comments and watching this video. IS 3 is so dependent on the RNG and that is becoming a fucked up system, when u decided to put RNG in every single choice you had.
I like IS3, I feel like the pains of the Surging Waves could of mitigated if you could just pick your challenges like CC contracts.
In SU you feel OP, its fun. In IS you feel weaker the more you progress, its not fun at all.
Counter argument 🤓 , it feels much more satisfying coming out victorious when you are the underdog (yes , texalter and mlynar spam is actual strategic gameplay)
SU is fun
IS run SW15 is over every time you encounter "Ubi bona somnia"
Not fknig fun
@@13nguyeninhthienkhoi87Yeah its fun spamming the same core ops every run. Not like it is done in every other modes.
I like the part in IS where i don't get enough hope for a run or not getting a certain class card to unlock the character or upgrade them
Skill issue.
Limbus' Mirror Dungeon does a roguelike decently well. MD 1 and 2 on normal mode are both easy enough that anyone can win with basically any team since they don't care about the level your dudes are in the normal game. With MD2 Hard being the actual challenge that takes your existing progression into account. Items are generally split between the rare ones which do a lot and the common ones which are mostly filler, though some commons like Sunshower and Blue Zippo Lighter are still really strong.
Basically any team is still viable in MD2H, but on the condition that they're basically maxed out (maxed at when MD2H was released, level cap has increased since then). 2H is actually more restrictive and gives fewer starting options than the other two Mirrors since it has rarity restrictions like IS and also doesn't give you a starting item, but even the weaker teams like Tremor can still be viable. 2H does have the problem of number scaling as you get further, to the point where at floor 5 you basically need to use EGOs (super attacks) pretty much constantly or one enemy can just kick your shit in, to be fair you've had 4 floors before to build up resources to spam them but it's still dumb.
Limbus in general has problems balancing between team setups, where the busted ones normally are still busted in MD and the weak ones don't get enough support to make up for it. Exception being Poise since it gets tons of items which make it better and solve it's main problems. Though you can just go in with a generically strong team and still win no matter which items you get, hell I've won easily with a Charge team and never got any charge items.
MD2H also has a problem with its end bosses since they're randomized, Kromer is a joke, Drifting Fox is just an AoE spamfest, Centipede is easy but a waste of time, Bull is actually difficult but has a habit of just fucking you over by maxrolling constantly, then My Form Empties is such a pain in the ass that some people just don't bother and claim reduced rewards instead of fighting it. Shame since the non MD form was one of the game's best fights.
Just bring a tank and focus fire Aida lmao. You DID bring WRyoshu right?
I don't play SR so I don't know anything is SU.
But this video is implied to "IS3 A10+" right?
As in A10- I could just random most of the things (starter included) and still have 80%+ clear rate?
Also, if I'm just want to be OP I could just go with A0 to genocide the Seaborn, so I wonder if this video compared to the hardest of the said SU right?
Yeah, i remember having my shins kicked a lot of times when i was just starting playing IS3. Got so pissed that i immediately worked on unlocking skills for the ability to roll a die and the extra atk/def. I never thought that there's something much worse than PGR's Deep Blue Warzone
i get it, and looking back at it, if you ignore the difficulty spike from.. the difficulties, and cool enemy designs do not matter (no idea what they're like in star rail), is3 is pretty boring and repetative, especially considering the dice. BUT i think some of the "trash" curios just require you to adapt (but honestly its not worth it for most of the cases, so it flops here too)
After seeing that well thought out and scripted video with points I disagree with, I only got one thing to respond with :
Skill issue tbh
But more seriously it probably has already been stated but both game modes were designed differently from the get go. SU is designed as a farming mode so the Devs want to make sure you can actually do it quickly while not struggling too much to get the rewards and that dopamine rush, meanwhile IS is more akin to the traditional roguelike where RNG can and will screw you over at some point.
TBH, that's kind of why Swarm Disaster exists. Regular SU is a farm mode since it provides Planars for you, so its simple and quick to do, but Swarm is *not* for farming; you can get a lot of one-time rewards but you gain literally nothing from playing it once you get them all, other than entertainment. Hence, Swarm is generally longer and more difficult, with bigger enemy stat scaling and more complicated interactions depending on the Path, and several more ways to get impeded by RNG, which is for those people who want their roguelike fix.
So what HSR did here was create a long-term roguelike that's simple and fun with rewards as an incentive to keep coming back to it *and* a harder mode that exists basically just for fun.
@@tsf9600And IS is a side mode from the get go, it is absolutely not necessary for you to do it in order to progress. It is indeed more comparable to Swarm mode and like you just said Swarm mode is a one and done just like IS3,once you get all the rewards you have no obligations to play either Swarm or IS. I'd disagree on HSR having created 2 rogue like though, SU is necessary for your progress unless you want to gimp your characters, it's a glorified relic farm imo, swarm mode is a true rogue like though
the thing is there are more people with skill issue (like me) playing Arknights, and the experience is not fun when you have skill issue
Having watched one of my colleagues play SU a whole summer this is the most boring shit I've ever seen. If you've done it once, you've basically done it a 100 times. He was just farming the shit with very little actual thought involved. IS on the other hand provides you with actual challenges where you need to use your brain and it's kind of different every run. I've done SU a little on my own account as well and I cannot believe how people can stomach doing this repeatedly. There's literally nothing to it at all. IS is leagues better.
well, the ability stomache doing anything repeatedly is subjective
I'm already gonna be grinding the gamemode gardless, why the hell would I want to push in maximum effort every single time?
and arknights being designed around maps means the best aspect of the gacha game in general (your characters), is limited not only by the gacha but ALSO by their kit- HEAVILY. Ive brought this point up thrice now necroposting but in GENERAL building certain units in arknights is so account negative youre locked into doing it when you're late in the game
---
I only played for like, 3 or 4 months but arknights so greatly de-centivises interest in certain characters, whilst also making character variety and pull choice a requirement.
no matter how I use my brain it feels like I won't ever be able to make tsukinogi, greyy and frostleaf work WELL well in arknights
[ not just because they are outclassed, but also because maps and enemies demand certain strategies that they will never be fit for, and so building and using them is harder on me because there's absolutely no equalizing factor to make them viable ]
the silencer that uses ifrit lanes is only gonna work in a very very very very select few levels, and at that point I might just build ifrit
so wtf do I do when my favourite units are locked behind certain mapstyles, certain map enemies, and a gacha for supportive units (which won't always work mind you), alongside whatever punisments IS throws at you???
why the heck are you even playing HSR if the mechanics disinterest you so much, if you're a suckler for the micromanagement in arknight's tower defense of course HSR is going to seem disingenuous by comparison, the closest thing we have is SP management and speed tuning.
@@ghetoknight7801 I enjoyed playing HSR through the story, it was a good experience. As for those units you pointed out, they're outlier units that require other conditions to make work. For instance Frostleaf works great in IS if you have Qiubai and it's a cheap way to unlock the full dps potential of Qiubai in IS while also providing a Slow which is one of the few forms of CC that bosses aren't immune to. Actually higher difficulty IS require you to use lower rarity operators because of Hope starvation and the cost of 6 stars. Arknights has a deep learning curve, at first glance some operators may seem unusable when they're not. I've been playing for almost 2 years and I still learn new things.
HSR is a much more simple game that you can pick up and enjoy. I just don't think the gacha aspect is something Hoyo does well. Their single player story experience is real nice, but the gacha, rates, relic grind and end games are outrageously bad. You've been playing AK for 4 months and you want to do an end game mode when you've not yet reached end game.
Funnily enough I enjoyed IS3 more than IS2, the die is a classic tabletop mechanic that adds more randomness. And, compared to Hsr, IS could be much more difficult too.
yeah fr the chaos i get from the die itself is actually making the gamemode harsh but still fun to play
It's double fun when I use the squad type that gives me the 8 sided die and a die every battle. At that point, I'm actively throwing (hehe) away my dice.
yeah, random chaos that dice make that make it fun.
While i agree with your points about IS3 i think its a disservice to the whole genre to call SU a roguelike.
In SU there is no god runs or bad runs you just click play select your units and path and click autoplay on all fights till you win. You shouldnt fail if your units are built (unless you are room temperature IQ) .
You can even reroll each time to ensure you get all the blessings you need and you know all the enemies and bosses beforehand.
In roguelikes the RNG is half of the fun that is dictating your playstyle and making you adapt and while IS3 succeds at being a roguelike gamemode, SU is a cheap mockery.
Maybe that's why I like SU somewhat, because I really hate roguelikes. Losing to rng is not fun, and neither is randomness.
@@PlatinumKrowndo you even PLAY it? Like not hit autoplay every week and actually PLAYING it? I’d assume you don’t bcs you stated you hated rougelike, but how tf do you like SU when you don’t even play it lmao.
It offers little to none gameplay at all.
I played HSR, autoplay my way to lv70, got some decent characters and that’s it. My friends are all playing it, that why I keep playing, but every day is just logging in and farming relics is just so bad mechanically. And just for reasons of big numbers thicc character brrrrr
@@terror_nightmare9308 I don't like SU nearly as much as Star Rail's event stages, and even then it's because SU gives really good rewards for building characters. Star Rail isn't really my favorite game and I only play 2-3 times a week and I don't play SU very often either. As for Arknights, I don't have a good enough reason to play IS, but I might play IS4 to get Typhon's skin.
@@PlatinumKrown Sorry for that nonsense, I was drunk when I wrote the comment. Now reading it feels like reading nonsense lol. Thanks for replying to that with a normal attitude.
Even then my point still stand, SU is a bad gamemode. It is a rougelike mode but offer little to none run variations. Being a mandatory part of the game forces it to be that way to not gate rewards with skill issue. If anything it fits Hoyoverse-style games but not what i seek in terms of gameplay, and actually i think no one would come to SU for its gameplay.
What I truly wanna say is, I appreciate your opinion but I dont get why would you prefer such a mode (while disliking both bcs you dont like rougelike make more sense to me)
@@terror_nightmare9308 Having a randomness factor is fun, even if it sometimes won't be, and I won't argue that SU provides no challenge. But I play HSR like pokemon, and the base capability to be able to clear anything with any team is a huge upside to SU
[ do I sit there and enjoy clicking skill, ult, normal attack? not technically ]
but it's unfair to discredit SU because HSR uses a turn based rpg system with little depth and a great deal of simplicity in the first place. There is a surge of dopamine, however, when I go elation path and my herta, clara, dr ratio, or march 7th murders mobs with an otherwise weak follow up attack
or when my marc 7th wide freezes
or when everyone dies off turn to DoT
and these apply for every single character I have with practically no exceptions, you never feel "this character isn't worth using over that" because the game doesn't force you to use any select characters or even roles
and although it removes strategy (little strategy and skill ceiling possible in HSR regardless), you gain all the variety that makes casuals like me enjoy "roguelikes". It also gets around the gacha barrier with relative ease.
It especially doesn't help that arknight's levelling progression is in such a way where 2 units at the same level are going to be harshly different in viability, and there's no way to make up for that difference, especially noticeable if their "viability" is already below bottomline (I am still EXTREMELY pissed about frostleaf falling off the longer I played)
I stop playing IS mode in AK since I got the Phantom skin and didn't touch it since, I didn't even start a single run on IS 3 because I'm too burn out on IS2 for someone who didn't enjoy too much rng base game mode like me IS 2 is fun for the first15-20 run when you try out the aspd build and that's it. your video make me understand now why I don't like this mode.
when i was clearing diff 15 in IS3 i felt exactly like clearing a run in hades for the 123857 time. i really think it depend on person who's playing the mode/the game, but for me IS3 is not so good for almost the same reasons as hades was.
wait is it possible to use propagation path in normal simulated universe? if yes how do you have it? i still dont know how to get it
You clear Swarm Disaster's entire main content which are the ending missions you get for playing different paths
I somewhat agree, I'm just finishing IS3 for the medals and the last 4 missions, just use people oriented squad then you're practically done
edit: this is why the AK page banned GG, Texalter, Mlynar into the run for the event because that's the only 3 you fcking need to complete ending 1
ending 2 fcking sucks due to the on hit freeze
and idk what triggers ending 3 🤣
ending 3 you first need the Mizuki event on floors 1/2/3ish to happen where you take the debuff option, then on floor 3/4/5-ish you get another event and you pick the worst debuff option, then after you beat one of the other bosses you can face ending 3
@@NikkiTheViolist it sounds like you're trying ending 3 with your balls tie in a knot when doing the ending
@@crunchyrinending 3 is still easier since the boss don't have the freeze on hit the ending 2 have
If I would like the best Rogue-like, Star Rail ain't it.
I thought you would be more of a Lynx man Supah.
thank you so much, i thought i was going crazy. it seems like everyone loves is3 and don't really talk about the cons of it. i tried bringing up the die but they just shrug. i wasn't understanding why i felt so frustrated with it or not having as much fun with it until you mention not having player agency.
some peeps just hving fun with the challenge i guess
3:07 counter point:
Himeko and herta combo is really funny.
the one thing I question in star rail is the option to add more characters to your already full 4 man party during runs, on the low chance you actually want more characters, where would you place them since it's a 1 party gamemode,
it would have been nice if characters were randomized (ig we pick 1 starter at least) and having the option to choose from a small pool of characters mid run (Character stats should be balanced and set to a standard ig cause imagine having to choose between a mega built and a barely built character [IS also suffers from this-])
though it would make building characters not as important anymore where artifact farming is the hoyoverse formula
oh god please no random character selection. You'd 100% get some characters you didn't have the resources to build and get fucked over.
The ability to add characters is for the following reasons:
1. offset dying
2. Offer variety vs certain encounters you face mid-run (i've had to hot swap in a couple characters to deal with certain elites)
3. Technique variety (bringing in MC can give you out of combat heals you wouldn't otherwise have, Debuff stacking, etc.)
4. Funsies.
elation you laugh at bugs, preservation you throw bricks at them
clearly preservation is superior
I really enjoyed IS3 more than IS2 although I agree with you on most of what you mentioned in this video ( except for deep investigation not being fun and the dice(I love the dice it's both your savior in some stages or your doom in artifact collection)) IS3 is way more luck based and can fodge your run in many ways you thought were impossible and that's what I love about it. In Hades(my second favorite rougelite game(the first being the wizard of legends obviously)) after a certain point you'll just need two or three encounters to have the most braindead sleeping on the keyboard run of your life(two funny hammer encounters with a (insert the name of goddess of knowledge here cuz she forgot to bless me) blessing).
I've never been backstabbed by Hades and after the fifth time you beat up a boss you'll know that you'll be able to defeat them or not in this run while in arknights I've been demolished by the twin bosses even with two blessings and E2 texalter. I think that rougelikes/lites being unpredictable is what makes them fun and getting your butt handed to you by RNG is way more fun than knowing exactly what would happen in your playthrough.
(The monthly squad is garbage tho I completely and wholeheartedly and(insert more words that mean agreement) agree with you on that)
As someone who dislikes IS in general, I would like to add a couple other criticisms in line with some of the points you made:
- the hope system removes variety: I could rant about the amount of times I've found myself 1 hope off of an important 6*, but my main point here is that this is part of the randomness you are supposed to adapt around in your run. And the best way to adapt is to take a 3 star: basically a placeholder unit for earlier floors, and effectively a skip button on the later floors. Outside of the few 4/5*s that have a useful niche against these particular enemies (click, kroos, etc), spending any amount of hope on a "stronger but not game winning" unit is shooting yourself in the foot, as it only serves to further delay getting that crucial 6*. And even if that generic 4/5* sticks around in your squad to the end, the difference between them and a 3* counterpart is usually not enough to make or break the run, especially if you don't E2 them, aka waste even more hope.
- the ticket system system punishes you through randomness: getting 5 medic tickets by floor 2 is going to seriously impact the strength of your squad on later floors. Getting No medic tickets by floor 3 is going to force you to rely heavily on medic defenders. Sorry, I mean exclusively Spot because you're in the mindset that anyone else is a waste of hope and will hurt your run later on, and you'll get the medic ticket any minute now. Also if a ticket never appears twice, that "crucial 6*" just turned into a waste of hope. A problem that becomes increasingly more likely when you realise the sheer amount of tickets you passed up on while saving up 6 hope in the first place.
And to make matters worse, unlike the die there isn't even much of a "good result" to get: either you get everyone you normally would on a "normal" run, or you get punished by rng.
Also also the starting squads are so unbalanced in both IS2 and IS3 that they take away variety because the meta pick is the one that slaps a bandaid on the issues I mentioned above (Instant E2 guards saves hope and removes reliance on a second guard ticket, reduced hope to recruit and promote turns all those 5 hope moments into wins, while also saving hope overall). Also the metaprogression upgrades makes the 3 new squads in IS3 much more attractive than the other options. If people oriented squad didn't exist, I'm pretty confident the nerfed form of the instant E2 guards squad would still be the meta pick for IS3.
on D15 you can just start with max Schwarz (M6, both mod 3) then pick random trash 3* 4* 5* and you can still consistently clear ending 1. If Schwarz get rng debuff then just use dice to reroll.
can just recruit Ines + Dorothy and auto win every stages too.
5 medic tickets also mean now I have E2 Kaltsit + Reed2 and a fodder to share curse, how is that bad. I also only use Spot (sometimes Gummy) for healing cause you not gonna heal anyone fast enough in D15 anyway unless it E2 Ptilopsis S2.
you look like casual player and casual not gonna play high D so in low D, a Texalter/5* Kroos with a bunch of 3*, no matter how bad the rng is, will already give me 99.99% winrate.
I daresay you're limiting yourself if you're only relying on that important 6. IS changes the game for a lot of cheaper units.
I see this as a skill issue.
My biggest issue with IS is 1. that it is almost impossible to make any build whatsoever because of the randomness of everything, especially the presented Artifacts' system (meanwhile, in HSR you always get a thingie which may be used in any possible situation as of your current team/path) and 2. disastrous mechanic of recruiting. I TREMENDOUSLY DISAGREE with the whole hope system which simply yet again proves that Meta > Waifu and makes it impossible to try completely new strategies because of it and other limitations.
Also, I am not surprised your biggest and most important argument was gay men. This time, I think I will restrain from like or dislike whatsoever (for the science)
Realy thats the argument i needed to see
Now is2 verses su would be cool
that's some nice arguments you got there.
but does SU have Gummy?
IS3 is the clear winner then.
ah... so that's why I can Complete the IS3 Medal Set sooner than the IS2 Medal Set.
this feels like a video of average honkai fan, you got gud characters you have a good time in no rng mode - insane, not even talking about you not really having any control in su.
in is3 you can get buffs even on diff15 if you know how to do it.
in is3 critical failure is better than getting item you choose.
in su i had tons of runs were i wasnt able to get even 6 of my choosen cards, what about that supah?
in total is3 feels like a real roguelike and su feels like just a weekly thing you do cause you want gems and it offers no gameplay variety.
funy how you talking about having same things in is3 every time when you can do this in su and probably will if you dont have a lot of characters, same goes for items since su items are as useless as is3 items.
AND most importantly you mr SUPAH called BEST ROGULIKE EVER (TBOI) the worst rogulike.
if that was an anger bait - you succeeded, literally your worst video
Never level your gummies guys.
For an AK lover I'm more to IS cause for challenging team build compositions trying best way to clear and adopting to changes is what a rouge should be, clearing hard challenges makes me go sogoi i clear it😮
Really cool video and deep analysis of game modes 👍 (remove everything in brackets after insertion and you will get 5$)
17:45 Pallas spotted, neurons fired, gogogogogo.
In all serious, you aren't wrong on this. Though I think your praise for base SU is a little generous. The first few times are great, but everything after that is just the same easy comps to farm artifacts with. Which is intended, naturally, and why we got the gem that is Swarm Disaster.
For the SR fam who haven't played Arknights, IS really is fun overall (especially IS2), but yeah it's a shame that IS3 had a couple mechanics that really soured the experience. :(
Kinda want to go play SD now but I have to go to work smh...
I was malding on Dead Cells and this video appeared. Am I being tracked or something?
yeah
Supah, have you seen gins art where futa Gmuyy busting all over your ice cream? I starting to like her too😋
Hohoyo games made for casual player, no surprise.
Meanwhile IS was made for diehard fan,
be it for Arknights itself and/or Roguelike/lite genre in general.
If Arknights is just one of your side game nor you haven't any experience in any solid rogulike/lite titles, you'll leave it in no time, no surprise
Early phase of IS can be enjoyed by everyone with basic solid squad, at 1-3 difficulty level it's so easy that you just can't go wrong
at 4-9 it's your training arc
At 10-14 it's your judgment day
At 15 you'll start to ask where is God
Roguelike/lite is understandably not for everyone, but the one whom choose to add it as their favorite genre, hats off to you fellow enjoyer.
As the one with +50k nodes explored in each of IS theme, I can confidently say that IS3 is better than IS2 in a lot of ways,
IS2 is too straightforward in normal mode, you just can't go wrong with that, any build is doable with basic knowledge of the map and simple planning.
but the spike of difficulty in hard mode is too high, almost no tolerance in early floor, encounter are mostly bullshit, you want to take as much as battle as you could.
Meanwhile in IS3 you have better learning curve in the early floor and/or difficulties,
Encounters did mean something, relics much more vary leading to much much more diverse strategies and random straightforward bullshit build/planning can't go as easily as IS2, no wonder IS3 is praised in CN community, Arknights is the second big shit there, means that it really meant something as their praise/complaints more or less help the devs shaped the game to this day.
No perfect things in this world of course, but I could say Arknights already did a good job with weird combination of TD and Roguelike/lite genre
As someone who has been trying to clear each Swarm Disaster path on max difficulty but has 100% ignored IS#3 and can't even work up the motivation to max out the free chara and get the skin (and as who has also completed most of IS#2), I think you summed up my thoughts pretty well. The dice rolls are utter hell, dangling something potentially nice in front of you but never giving it to you and fucking up your run more often than not. I also do just max my favs in IS, Thorns and Skalter, and don't change up anything in my runs, lol.
True, but consider this: We are not the same. What you've described is what a CASUAL player wants for a rouge-like to be. Yes, we do have casuals who will insta-lock Texas Alter and just try to get as far as possible to get more rewards, but it's probably one of those default way to play when you're going for completion and not one of those instances where I'm going in with (X) Operator Casual run. I'm that experimental dipshit who would bring Racist Toddi with that sweet sweet ASPD + any Sniper/Ranged DMG cookbooks & SP Modifiers. Yes, you'd lose one of your best units to some curse or some shit, but that's what the recruitment vouchers along the way are for, to see if we can get someone else, or literally just cleanse it at a safe zone ffs; And I've always found myself in some runs overflowing unit vouchers + GUEST APPEARANCE units that I can literally just plug-in someone else if my best thing stopped working due to the curses mid-game or just gg go next I'm here to for the next run.
For someone who has criticized that the artifacts are "Just Stat Enhancement", have you ever asked yourself this, EVERY FUCKING ROUGE-LIKE plays with either the skills or the STATS itself? Like how are you dealing with a final boss if you've never used a ARTIFACT THAT RAISES YOUR FUCKING STRENGTH WHEN YOU'RE AT A XX THRESHOLD and you're out here with your base ass stats when you've started the run. It's only a "Stat change" my ass, that's the thing, it's a rouge like, they'll fucking change your stats one way or another to suit the next stages because OBVIOUSLY, whatever comes next will have a larger stat than the first ones just to remind you that YOU'RE PROGRESSING. Also hello? Are we suddenly forgetting that DP system exists? SP + Skills? Push/Pull + Weight? What about Redeployment? All under the rug?
Yes it's inconvenient to get f*cked by the dice and its one of the blemishes that 1/4 iteration of IS has achieved, and yes, it's probably just me who has this mindset that if victory is guaranteed, then it's not earned.
(And no, I'm not returning to Mihoyo until they get rid of this stupid E7 Equipment/Artifact shit in any of their games, which as we all know. THE CHANCES ARE 0)
Its all under the rug because its "too hard".
Holy shit 21 mins of no Gummy simping this is a new record
I agree with the dice, from what I heard even CN player said IS4 is easier than IS3 because of how much the RNG in IS3. I have nothing against the gameplay I enjoy it while for side nodes yeah it is boring, I prefer the IS2 because it more challenging but I think they make it easy to cover up the difficulty in normal run.
IS4 a lot better that IS3&2 from what I seen and the fact that all thing in IS4 canon make it more easy story telling than IS3
i want to know the game on bg on 0:55, looks fun, looks like RoR1 or 2? but chara design looks p different from what i remember
i want to know the song name at 2:23
8:43 my fave metaphor there in this vid, good job rewriitng the script SUPAH
10:30 bruh
and i forgot to put any take or rewatch point atferwards as SUPAH said mid in, if done right, there is little to mention except thumbs up and u did it right
another gud vid after a while hehe, i wholeheartedly agree with the IS3 analysis as roguelite and roguelike is my fave game genre since before i realized so,.Tried all rogues i could find in mobile and a lot of psp/pc ones yeah IS3 is one of the worse ones as RNG triumphs over your skill and choice by a landslide and forces you to pick meta meta meta, IS3 in high SW is a metaslave mode when roguelike is more about creativity and flexibility under RNG, IS3 almost removes said creativity and flexibility experience
idk about HSR SU as ive quitted all mihoyo games after being sick with sumeru, fountain looks good ngl but i go either fully experience a game or stop playing it at all-type-player especially if it is not a side mode but the main story that has a real bad game experience
the one thing about roguelike that always becomes fun imo is OP vs OP as longer runs, the enemies goes OP, but you also go OP yet the battle doesnt end up flat somehow due game mechanics etc,
somehow making a simple battle of numbers doesnt looks like rock paper scissors and voila! 1 side wins!
it becomes something like the enemy is a giant scissors but i have enough papers to spam so the scissors is broken trying to cut it, if u do bad move, u cannot output enough papers in time if that makes sense
one major flaw i have with your analysis of the paths compared to squads is that you say IS falls short cause you end up taking the same all the time. the same is true for SU. i always use Seele Fu Xuan SW Tingyun with path of the Hunt and it's boring af for me. picking the same units is your choice in either game and it's not the games fault if you default to the same squad in IS but not in SU. in fact IS at least tries to get you to have more variety by giving out random vouchers unlike SU which lets you pick the same 4 units every time.
another inherent flaw for SU is that it's a farming mode. if you get bored of IS you can simply stop playing it. yes you will miss out on some rewards but they're not entirely unique to the game mode. but if you want to clear any kind of lategame content in HSR you **will** have to do your 2 weekly SU runs to get planar sets and when there are events like the current one you will have to do even more runs per week which makes the mode even more repetetive.
i agree that the side modes are much much better in SU but the base game mode is so fcking repetetive and boring and honestly just a hassle to get through after playing the game for months
I mean, IS forces you to take the same setup and then permits you to add variety, as far as I know (just how arknights is, certain maps, enemies etc are going to demand certain team comps)
in SU the simplicity of the gamemode encourages using different characters by design however, from the start you could be running a march 7th instead of fu xuan.
Making the game intentionally challenging by picking (not the same) units in IS is equally as disingenuous as making the game intentionally boring by picking your same characters in SU.
For some reason i cannot change is3 monthly squad. Its stuck to gladia now.
Also you forgot to say that in is3 losing life point lower ur light mechanic is dumb and stupid
And You lose light if your base points (the blue chess piece) is too low. + The kings collectibles pretty much not worth it in IS3.
The "light" is seriously the worst part of IS3...
Isn't the monthly squad normal?
You can't change it until every update for the mode is completed or every single monthly character that were layed out for the mode are in.
Monthly squad only change per month tho
Its because i havent unlock all entry for other char like thorn or lumen. There is no option to turn back unlike in is2
@@jdeverest7600 IS2 can do that because the "all" update for IS2 is done. IS2 back then can't choose your monthly squad just like IS3 right now.
the dice has randomly fucked me so often I now just use it(by "it" i mean play is3) to test cool ops my friends have
I mean IS1 and 2 is nice but i really hate a lights system in IS3. I mean if you run spearhead squad or King's relics strat then you're losing light for a stupid reason every battle which is the worst thing
they didnt afraid to snap tingyun's neck in hsr cutscene.
LOL, is it really her though? Are you sure they didn't put that scene as a mere shock value? 😅
I sure at some point in the future she'll be back as tingyun alter LOL 😂
4:22 EEEK! You gotta put a warning on these things! I got so scared that I had to immediately share the image with my lesbian best friend who I used to date so that I wasn't the only one being scared, and then go on google to find lots and lots more similar images to face my fear until I was no longer scared
20:33 oh my god you finally acknowledged her im literally crying rn 😭😭😭😭😭
my biggest complaint with integrated strategies is I want to use the operators that I built I prefer the stationary security service way more just because it makes the mobs harder I have control over the buffs I give my operators and there is still a decision tree of who to keep and who to build my squad with and how to dig for my carries. granted I never cared for integrated strategies ever it was just not my game mode. what I like about SU is you get to pick a starting team but you can deviate if you get specific buffs with the downloader to change what team you use for the final boss. it also sucks how little I played of IS and I feel like I have seen 90% of the maps. but I see you shitting on specifically IS3 bc it is a abyss hunter event
holy shit is that a darkest dungeons reference at 8:37
my problem with hsr's SU is the fact paths are still super rng sometimes when im doing a run i will just not get any buffs for my specific path and end having to reset but that honesty goes for both gamemodes so its not even a good point to begin with.
another problem i have is the fact that comparing these 2 games in general is just dumb, on one game you get to choose your entire team as a whole and then just have to get buffs (which are still rng heavy looking at you remembrance, abundance) while in arknights both your team and the atifacts and events you get are random and can either make or break your run. i feel like IS was made for masochists while SU was made for femboys because most of the time i play HSR SU is such a snoozefest since 80% of the gameplay is me alt tabing to yt video while my units are on auto and the only times i ACTUALLY play the game is on bosses.
TLDR: comparing these 2 games is dumb, 1 is for masochists and the other is for femboys
I am playing is3 right now! am I weird for Lovin it?
I enjoyed IS2 a lot more than IS3, but I definitely enjoyed the increased challenge of IS3 at d15. It feels like HG made IS3 more "bloated" than it needed to be due to the increasing powercreep of newer operators like Horn, Pozy, Mlynar, Texalter, Yato Alter, etc but certain relic synergies like for dodging or even the King's Relics didn't make much impact like other synergies in IS2. For me, the two worse cons of IS3 are that it becomes rigid in squad building once you're in the d12-d15 range and you almost always need strong phys dmg dealers like Schwarz/Pozy/Mlynar for elites/bosses and multiple CC sources like Krooster, Gnosis, Texalter, Kaltsit, Mayer, etc to deal with hovering enemies or bosses (or cheesing 2nd ending with Erato and Mr Nothing). Second thing is that IS3 mobs made the base game pretty ass with very limited options to counter things like the def shred of multiple broodmothers by using 0 block ops like Ethan, Tequila, Mlynar or rendering Honey/Mulberry + Lumen useless due to how quickly elemental dmg was applied. In IS2 Calamity, you could choose just about any combo of operators and make it work whether it was arts or phys dmg.
Yeah I see this debufs normal, maybe its just that old dilenma about if Arknights needs to be more easy, just minor problems compred to the incomplete experiences that I get from other gachas
Just to let you know supah..I got not one but two entire huohuos!
Somehow missed this video. Another Supah banger. Can't tell if you were shitposting with the boyfriend comment or what but it's pride so whether you're bi, gay or just an ally you're invited to the cookout fr.
And you finally had me put my finger on why I just couldn't be bothered with is3 compared to the others.
I personally like the die rolls in IS-3. I hated it at first, but maybe I'm just coping.
I think we need to discuss IS-2 b/c it's been over as year and I still haven't triggered Ending 4. Why is it so difficult to trigger??? I already beat the other endings, so I don't see why they don't offer the encounter more often...
2:21 song name please? 🙂
Did you already found it bro? I wanna know too 😢
@@aozakii_47 WLFMSTER or something like that. Search it and it should show the song 😊
@@aozakii_47 Wlfmster
I got a Honkai ad and it froze my comments and as good as you made it sound I can’t deal with another gacha game
if dice rerolls were just an inherent mechanic id like it more
8:15 It's also worth mentioning that if you swap the debuffs on these specific operators, they WILL actually become absolutely fucking crippled, like, 'removed from the run' crippled.
I was thinking this would be a 22 minutes rant of Symbiosis but this is pretty close
For everyone saying that IS is not fun because "it is hard" (that's basically what they are saying). The only thing i wanted to say is "Skill issue" and have fun playing SU where the enemies have a shitton of hp for no reason at all and where relics don't change your gameplay. (the only curio worth mentioning is the one that gives other curios when breaking stuff but has a 1% chance to leave everyone at 1hp, that's the only real rogue like thing for me)
I don't find IS3 the most replayable rogue like ever made but SU is one of the worst for one simple reason: it's boring.
11:02 tbf gopnik is an exaggeration, he has lower hp when on the first floors, he also stands still for a lot of time, even kroos can delete him out of existence
Pretty odd you didnt like is3 relic collectible nodes. Its a straight upgrade from is2 collectible nodes. At least in is3 you have a chance to get a specific relic you want. In is2 you just get a random relic.
IS4 has made me really feel like this video has become even more accurate,
IS3 also took out Golden Chalice and made the RNG for pathfinder fins a thing so it is instantly trash tier.
yeah I loved IS2. IS3 is okay just like...some of it feels repetitive and a couple of the stages are such BS (like that one with the spear flingers in emergency mode), more than any of the IS2 stages. Agree with ending 2 boss as well. With having to protect an NPC you can no longer leak any strong enemies like how you might if you had extra life points because they will kill the knight. Also the whole "oh you automatically get your casters and vanguards E2 with this strat" but oh...never getting lucky enough to recruit those until you wipe sucks too. Like maybe it should guarentee another 1 besides initial recruit. In the end when I do reach an ending it feels rewarding, but trying to reach a different ending than the basic one can be a nightmare.
That being said, I also am not a huge fan of Starrail's mode. Yes, you can more carefully construct by path and get consistent clears, but honestly it took them forever to update it and there weren't enough random events and stages to keep it interesting imo. I would say that compared to IS2, honkai is bland--but at least it takes only around 10 min compared to my 1 hr long IS runs (and swarm disaster has a bit more interesting map variation). Compared to IS3, I'd pick honkai because there's more control and less BS rng.
Great video until he criticized Isaac, now you have been promoted to most hated youtuber 🥰🤗
To be fair, texalter is just so busted that it became the default pick for any gameplay variety in AK. While yes, IS 3 is not as varied as IS 2, but i think at the same time the operators released near IS 3 are just too busted, especially horn and texalter.
This one i do not agree, but I respect your points of view on it