Happy New Year Solid 🎉. Great Episode as always 🍻. I believe, as you mentioned that India, with a few Tweaks to its Mfg'ing processes and desires to be, Just better will eventually equal Japanese Reliability and quality. Obviously there Intention is strong. Its the rest of the planet that will dictate how India & Royal Enfield respond 🤔. Cheers 🍻, G.
Always like your videos. I have a few bikes. Because my government is so shit, I work too much and ride too little. I hope everyone finds more time in the future to go on a few adventures this year.
imo India will be a major force, but by their own rules. They already have the upper hand in the sub-500cc market, so no need to spread capex and labour thin to compete with the west in manufacturing the larger capacity machines. “Stick to what you know best and fish where the fish are”. Good info and video 👍
India has its own pace. Slow and steady kind of pace. First do what you can do best then one step ahead by taking care of all. This is kind of psychology Indian companies got. It's working for them.
@@Blvo1india is not slow and steady. The condition in which india is performing is not easy in democracy with huge population with huge diversity and having very less money.
I’m with you those little Bajaj’’s are great and cheap. But Enfield India isn’t in that market is it. They’ve survived by building the 350 Bullet the workhorse of India. The brakes are like cardboard. Tends to focus the mind in Indian traffic. I’ve seen a few big bikes in India so I see an internal market. I think that’s more of their focus. Exports sure why not.
Speaking as a retired American, I would absolutely buy another India-made bike. Down here in Nicaragua, small cc motos are a way of life, and my Yamaha FZS has been a joy to own and ride. It is now 6 years old and still going strong.
Royal emfield are actually really nice machines. I hired some RE's for a day out with friends and was really impressed with the INT 650. Would happily own one
I got off a Honda CBR1000RR and onto a RE Classic 350 and never looked back. Many more smiles per mile. And here in California I get people coming up to talk every time I stop somewhere. Never happened on the CBR. I have had it for a little over a year so we'll see about the quality, something which I never had to worry about in 40 years of owning Hondas. But it looks pretty solid so far.
I’m glad someone is talking about this. India is going to beat out china in manufacturing in the next ten years. A large portion of the Chinese workforce will age out soon with no youth to replace them. The brutal one child policy is reaping what it has sown. Also India has been improving quality and has really captured the true spirit of riding.
China is not following the playbook of Japan. The two countries could not be more different culturally. Japan is a nation of perfectionists and engineers, driven by an almost obsessive devotion to honor and quality. China is a land of cheap traders and counterfieters, whose only claim to fame is their complete lack of scruples when it comes to undercutting the competition on price.
Except Japan refuses to update their old dual sport bikes and refuses to produce an affordable rally bike (300 rally doesn't count). So they will be left in the dust by at least a portion of the market. It's like they are begging for China to beat them.
Bikes like the Honda XR650, the KLR, and the Suzuki DR640, do not need updating. They are built to be affordable, reliable, machines, and they do that very well. The KLR went fuel injection, because they had to, yet are still affordable. The sales numbers speak for themselves. KTM's have more power, but have big reliability issues. Pick your poison. You want way more power, you will kiss off affordability, and a lot of sales numbers, especially in economies like the one we have now. Motorcycles are toys, for 99% of riders, and are some of the first vehicles sold when money gets tight.
@@m.d9726 Japan has been cutting corners, They have been caught a number of times doing shady shenanigans...Its not the 70-90s period of time. Japan is stuck and they're traditional loyalty is now holding them back to the past. Most of the Japanese modern engineering is made in china anyway because they can't compete on price of production.
I was in India last month. There’s huge improvement on motorcycles market and everything for that matter. It’s huge economy, there’s huge opportunity for any company that has good products. Even KTM with mediocre product quality/reliability is doing good in India.
Interesting to see kove in the dakar rally. Im old enough to remember peoples bias against Japanese bikes in the 70's. India is the new china is the new japan! (Bike production)
Hero which is an Indian company, currently has a dakar 2024 stage win and ross branch their driver is leading over all as of now. I didn't know who hero motorsports were until I saw that motorcycle win a stage.
You know they are. While HD focuses on $25k - $50k bikes that nobody is buying RE is coming in with plenty of offerings not over $7500 providing a bunch of riders a pathway to getting on 2 wheels. Hell I've ridden Honda sportbikes for 40 years, got off my CBR1000RR and just got a Classic 350 and couldn't be happier in my decision. I could by 2 RE's for what even Triumph offers and they're made in Thailand. Look now at all the manufacturers that import into the West scramble to follow RE's lead.
4:30 this is where you hit the nail on the head. My dad was born in 1925. After the war he said that the opinion of "Japanese made" was 'the stuff is garbage'. You can even see that in the movie "Back to the Future" where the 1950's "Doc" says 'no wonder the microchip failed, it was made in Japan'. Japan is now recognised as a tier 1 producer of quality products. Equally, India is seen as poor quality, but evidence is there that within 20 years (which is the blink of an eye... look back 20 years) they can become tier 1 as well. Additionally, textiles from the sub-continent aren't considered poor quality. Bangladeshi, Indian and Sri Lankan cloth is pretty good stuff. So, clearly it's "where they are put their effort" which dictates the quality of Indian manufacture.
Economic growth in India will incentivise manufacturers to move product upscale. If living standards rise as quickly as anticipated, India's motorcycle buyers will demand higher quality when they go to purchase their next bike. This will benefit bike lovers worldwide.
@@sourabhkumar1338 Wonderful. I live on the Canadian prairies and a typical highway motorcycle here weighs 800 pounds. I hate those gargantuan machines. My dream bike weighs under 450 pounds but yet is silky smooth at 110 kph, has cruise control and a wide seat that still feels good after a four hour ride. The thing about healthy economic growth is that it gives people the option of buying more expensive vehicles but it also gives governments the resources needed to build better roads. I hope Indian purchasers reject the western idea of massive machines as their affluence grows and that the world gets better lighter bikes as a consequence. Given the high percentage of the world's motorcycle output going to India, it's customers will have a large influence over bikes for the rest of us. The Internet tells me that yearly bike sales in America and Canada combined are under 700,000 and falling but for India it's over 17 million and probably growing. Looking forward your choices will matter a lot more than ours.
As an Indian the new Himalayan 452 is amazing. I have booked mine and should be getting it delivered by end of March. I was also hoping for KTM to tease the updated 390 ADV and I was stoked when I saw the leaked images. But as before, KTM for whatever reason wants to short change the Indian market. A recent slew of images showed the new KTM 390 adv with 19 inch fronts rather than the 21 in the international market.
As a RE BS4 Hemi owner in the USA, it’s sad to see the ‘new one’ morph into ..something like everything else.. Over here, it’s been a simple (air cooled long stroke single) packhorse, ‘at home,’ it seems you guys are rooting for something else 😣 ‘America’ needs a utilitarian bike, not another enduro-like crotch-rocket
@@vf5126 well India is sort of just seeing a real economic boom for the first time where people are ready to spend money on things like motorcycling for fun. Also at the same time the economy isn't as developed on an individual level that people can own multiple motorcycles (one for touring like a GS, a dirt bike for trails etc) and due to our insane population density, we don't have space to keep multiple motorcycles even if we could afford them. Our road infrastructure is getting so much better and the old Himi 411 while a brilliant bike gets quite annoying on the highways. I think the new 452 fixes that. I get your point but for our market the new one makes a lot of sense and I think even internationally RE is filling a very big gap in this segment. These ADVs are getting ridiculously heavy and complicated with too many electronics. Glad to know you're enjoying the 411 Himi. 👍Lovely bike. Maybe RE will still continue to make it (doubtful).
@@Whatreally123 Thanks for such an eloquent and accurate response(!). I’d waited 3 or 4 years for the Hemi to reach the US, just wanted a utilitarian pack mule - and got it! And yes, my second bike is a ‘wee-strom,’ for our ‘interstates.’ And yes, the new 450 Hemi will definitely fill a niche, both at home and abroad. ..so when replacement time comes for my BS4, I’m looking at new KLR’s.. If Kawasaki can ship a ‘finished’ engine 🙂
@@vf5126 I have ridden the new Himin452 and the low end torque is not there as the 411. But not a big problem. It's just that if the revs are probably less than 1.5k rpm. Riding position and the suspensions are spot on and far better than the 4111. So give it a try to see if you like it. Of course not the mule character for sure. Or why not a Kove 450? It's getting great reviews.
The bigger reason is not just man power or work force but most importantly the emotion of people towards motorcycles. It is this emotion that all the brand has to respect and hence, they make such decent performing bikes. If you see the advertisement of any bike of hero, Bajaj, RE you will see how they connect with people. It hardly flaunts the power figures. This is the same reason now they also doing good for western markets because they are trying to build community first especially RE I don't know till which point they will do so and like big four start bleeding the community by selling overexpensive bikes.
India already kinda catching up in Africa and Europe. And saw Honda India trying the vintage look to go against Royal Enfield. Hero and Bajaj is also doing good for years outside of India. Specially in Europe and Africa and started in Australia and America.
Great analysis brother! In my opinion, today's 600cc are equivalent to 2000s 1000cc bikes in outcome, soon just like 4 wheeler even 2 wheelers will be made with smaller engines and 500 to 700 cc would be the centre of attraction.
Wisconsin had so many small engine manufacturers, but they could only make them so clean. I read something from 'The Economist' that said India would probably have an edge over China in creativity. I'm trying to imagine how that would play out in the motorcycle industry.
Indian manufactres priorities the Indian market demands. As indian living standard increases they should start making expensive and powerful and advance bikes.
I'm putting my money on India, functional, rugged & built for purpose (Himalayan 450) without 100 screws to get the fairings off. I watched someone strip down a CFMoto 800mt lost track of the steps to get fairings off, even before getting to the tank just to check/change plugs. While I love the idea of a smooth running 450 twin, it will be just too much trouble for me as a maintainer. So I laid down my cash on one. Even though it is on the heavy side. At my age, why not take a risk.
Loving my KTM390 adv, a few years ago I would never have considered an indian built bike. The 390 is a hoot in the twisties and so light on the rough stuff. My other bike is a 2020 Africa Twin, I've been surprised at how enjoyable the 390 has been. I don't think this will be my last Indian bike. I cannot see myself buying a Chinese bike primarily as I find their politics alarming.
And you DON'T find it alarming that we can't even answer phone calls because of spoofed numbers, or escape a zillion scam texts, and have to spend hours deleting scam emails.....ALL from a dirty squalid country where everyone squats to take a dump anywhere the urge arises and wipes with their bare hands?
Apart from royal enfield, I think the ones to watch would be TVS and Hero. Both companies have aspirations for the international market, but it might be years before any of it actually materializes
@@ind-rishiyt1600 correct me if I'm wrong but Bajaj seems to be more interested in partnering with other brands, while TVS and Hero are developing their own designs more
Another great analysis of the industry. I also agree with the viewer that said thanks for not having a loud, hyper, flashing pictures and music louder than your voice.
Excellent deep view,thanks a lot and I totally agree with you.I spent some years working in India and China too,in 2050 the strongest economy will be India ,tradition and culture is pushing India further. Waiting for my RE 452 ,I've got already the 411 and I am one of those that recognizing Chris Birtch as a legend,I remain with feet on the ground 😂 being 6.2 that's easy on the RE🎉😂👍
Additional information: Bajaj owns almost 50% stake in KTM TVS owns Norton and also contract manufactures low capacity BMW Mahindra owns BSA Baby Aprilias are being made in India
Indian motorcycle companies have largely won in Africa, bajaj and tvs are dominating in africa and are winning in south america as well. South east asia is largely still japanese since they have strong brand following and are not forgiving to outsiders and Europe is still an early market for Indian companies. TVS HERO and Bajaj and ev startups like OLA, Ather should enter europe in a big way and I am sure they will make huge impact.
This was the sort of intelligent and informed analysis and commentary I've come to expect from this channel. Thanks. If an Indian motorcycle company wants to expand internationally and offer higher profit margin products, the major motorcycle manufacturers have left them an engraved invitation by refusing for decades to sell us the ADV bike we *really* want. If Bajaj or TVS wanted to leverage the quality lessons learned from manufacturing for KTM and BMW and make THE bike for the western world, make a reliable 450 cc or 500 cc single cylinder engine, and build a lightweight bike around it that is good for off road and on road use. It doesn't need the light weight, geometry and suspension of a dirt bike, but don't add plastics to make a street bike look more like an ADV bike. Design it for both, similar to the Himalayan but not as heavy. The goal is a bike that's lightweight to perform well off road, but with the 50 HP for comfortable highway cruising when needed. Give it a 5 gallon fuel tank and a large rear rack. Bonus points for an aluminum bash plate and some engine protection bars. Buy a Bosch ABS system if you aren't up for designing your own. Keep it simple, but the minimal equipment needs to be of high quality. No cheap Chinese switch gear. Learn to use aluminum instead of steel when it can save a few pounds. We'll pay for that weight savings. Have an importer/dealer in each country and ship direct to the consumer. Sell the parts needed to support the bikes. You do not need (or want) the overhead of a dealership network.
Just shortly before the new RE Himi was introduced, I decided to downgrade from a Norden 901, in favor of something lighter and got myself a Husky 701 which I am "adventurizing" right now. If I had known the new Himi back then, I might very well have considered it, even that its not that much lighter. It is a HUGE step... no leap forwards for RE! A chinese bike? Well, buying a bike is also about aftermarket support and here RE has a clear advantage, even that there are only two (well estabished) dealerships here which I know of.
Dude you are a very smart guy. Know about everything perfectly. I am from India that's why I am saying this. I can confirm to every single point you said.
until this video, i didnt really think about the fact that im most interested in a CF moto450 or the Triumph 400. one china, one india. makes me think a bit more about things.
India already is. Honda et al cannot ignore them. I am considering buying a new Himalayan but choice? Crf/t7/690 etc and of course price does make a difference. thanks for the insight. Happy New Year. William.
Indian bikes are huge in south america, Bajaj, Royal Enfield, Hero and TVS can be found everywhere, in my country Bajaj is fighting the sales leadership with Honda by offering bikes more powerful and with more features at a lower price, I have a Dominar 400 and it's been great til now.
Happy New Year! I think you are spot on. China has always been at the bottom of the list for products. Many people in North America live in a throwaway culture. For them cheap is the only answer. I grew up in the construction industry where good tools and be materials last a lifetime. The buy-once cry-once philosophy has served me well. I still use tools my father and grandfather passed down as well as my own tools that have lasted 30+ years.
I wish India would consider selling TVS motorcycles and Scooters in the USA. They are really good quality. BMW contracted with them to build the BMW 310R motorcycle, and it gets wonderful reviews. The gentleman whose channel is bikes and beards did a review of it a couple of years ago and he really liked it.
I currently have a 22 KLR and a 24 Transalp in the garage. The TA is a fantastic motorcycle, but I really prefer the low tech simplicity of the KLR, just no the top heavy geometry and paint shaker vibrations. If the RE Himalayan can do what the KLR does with less vibes and the same low COG a the 411, I'll sell both my current bikes and just go full in with RE. For the market, I think you hit the nail on the head with demographics. In the short term, China may pull ahead, but I think India is the long term replacement for Japan.
India is more focused on the affordable markets outside of the home turf, especially in the continent of Africa, and also in Southeast Asia. Sure, Indian quality may not be on par with Triumph, BMW, etc. but the important thing to consider here is that the markets of developing countries can't afford the "luxury" brands either. Enter Indian brands. They are definitely better quality products than that of China. They are a little bit more expensive than the cheap Chinese bikes, and a little more affordable than the Japanese bikes, while providing comparable levels of quality, reliability, and fuel efficiency(might even be higher in fuel efficiency and reliability if you consider the Bajaj Boxer and the Hero Splendor). TVS and Bajaj alone were able to drive out 160 out of the 200 motorcycle companies operating in Africa.
Hero Motorcorp sell the motorcycles with the best warranty in South Africa that I know of. The impression I get is that their quality may actually surpass that of Honda. I wish they will start building larger capacity bikes.
Hero is actually very active in the Dakar rally. I'm hoping they release a bigger capacity XPulse. Btw how is the sales number of the XPulse in SA? I'm hoping to create few accesories and export to other markets from India. 😀
@@Whatreally123 hero dakar is a contract with speedbrain racing which are basically husky/bmw 450s from yesteryear. It's not their own effort. Hero as a company is incapable of making anything world class.
@@Whatreally123 I have seen quite a few of them on the roads, but I believe the numbers are not that much compared to other countries. It seems like the very cheap bikes are selling well and also the bigger bikes like BMW GS. But the market for bikes in between is not that active here.
I was disappointed when I found the Australian version of the Harley x500 is made in china, not India. I would by an Indian made bike, but not a Chinese one. Someone can correct me if I am wrong though.
Good stuff. I think the last point is key from a business aspect. For export, more money on R&D, to sell a more expensive bike to a relatively (compared to local sales) small group of riders… I’d wonder if it makes much sense economically. Then again, China is doing it. 🤔. Don’t know the answer, but selling “us” bikes that they also can sell in India, makes a lot of sense to me
Interesting, insightful and well researched. A lifetime of bikes, and now with two REs alongside a Suzuki, I think the Indians have a strong chance against China - of alongside China. It's well to talk of the other traditional manufacturers fighting and of price wars, but as you say early on, many of them already have deals with one or both India and China.It's a global market and these two will be the biggest 'factories'. Not to forget the other Asian locations - Honda with the CB500X made in Thailand, and Triumph or course.
I quite simply will not buy a Chinese-manufactured motor vehicle and I'm a Brit so I feel an affinity with India for historical, curry and cricket-related reasons. The only thing stopping me buying an RE is the continued wait for their 650 scrambler.
Indian bikes such as Hero motocops , bajaj , and tvs has separate market in india and africa. That is low cc affordable bike. Eg. Bajaj palatina a 100cc bike that give mileage upto 75kmpl thats huge. People who look for mileage goes for it. Now they started colabarating with european brands to make premium motor cycles. In five year indian brands make affordable premium motor cycle.
A point in India's favour that you forgot to mention: They understand us. What ticks our box generally ticks theirs. We share a lot of cultural aspects. For that you can thank firstly their colonial past and secondly the fact that RE has set up their design shop in Leicestershire, and few minutes from Hinkley. Very smart!
very good points and yes India does have a chance to be a major player in the west but they haven't arrived. KTM and BMW are the gold standards of quality but are becoming unaffordable to most riders whose budget are now decreasing for nice to have items like motorcycles. This storyline is consistent with the shift in location from China to India of cell phones and ICs. The other factor is the increasing political animosity between China and the west
Good sign for India is that they are not in rush and also not looking for quick buck…in given price segments even Japanese companies are struggling to compete with Indian manufacturers… as Indian bikes and cars at the prices Indians can afford have same reliability as of Japanese products… however outside of India Indian manufacturers have to do research about the culture in new markets…which some companies are already doing it for example mahindra global pickup is getting tested and developed in Australia…
one issue i cant get over is how pricing is extremely lopsided... the hunter 350, for example is a 150,000 rupee bike... and somehow it ends up being $4,000 usd and $7,500 aud.. like really? even with sales tax it dont make sense. And so someone is making a heap of a money and someone is getting screwed. So why would you buy this for $7,500 aud when there's much better buying elsewhere... unless you really dig the 20hp single cyl. life...
It's called PPP - purchase power parity. It's priced that way only because your country doesn't manufacture anything the last few decades but your salary kept increasing
Hi Solid. Love your videos. ❤ The new Himalayan really interests me. I am currently riding a Suzuki DRZ 400e for adventure riding. As you said, the price is what grabs my attention. The Himalayan is affordable. My only question is reliability. I’m still not sure if it is worth the leap. 😊
Thanks mate. I would personally hang with the DRZ a little longer and see how the RE stacks up in the real world first. I’m always a little cautious (no matter the brand) when it’s a completely new engine/chassis. YMMV
Plastics are not useless on an offroad bike. They are designed to flex when you crash instead of breaking and to be cheap and easy to replace. They also eliminate the need for redundant parts, like heavy metal crash bars.
Their tiny 350cc 20 hp engine just does not cut it here in USA. They're beautiful bikes but not practical here. Now I am interested in the new Himalayan, not for sale here yet. So I just bought a used BMW f650 Gs, a single cylinder that makes a little more hp and torque than their 650 twin !
Good story Solid. Well researched. For what it’s worth I have no problem buying a Chinese bike. They make half of what I consume anyway, so what difference will another thing make. They are also starting to make decent bikes and that’s the bottom line for me. I have been riding Japanese bikes my entire life and not long before I started we were at war with each other. If they make good bikes cheaper than the others I’m happy to buy one. At worst it might force the others to pull their fingers out. See you on the trails😎
Your so right! I have a Kawasaki z 400 2022 and even though it is faster than the royal Enfield I can't carry anything with it. For a around town ( laundry, groceries and passenger) im upgrading to a 350 super meteor. Cheap on gass and insurance. And most of all dealership closer to me. VERY IMPORTANT?!
Markets follow the customers. When indian customers start expecting better and better, they are also willing to pay more. So, the manufacturers will up their design and quality game to stay relevant or perish. Hopefully, that turnaround happens sooner than later.
As an RE Himalayan owner, looking to upgrade, India’s relationship with russia instantly sours me.. Also, the new “Himalayan” is no longer the ‘packhorse’ platform I wanted. Japan has my attention..
I think that India will eventually usurp China in motorcycles. No political impediments. Rapidly improving quality. An example in cars was a road test of Mahindra Pik Up 4x4 with 500 000 kms from Redriven youtube and thumbs up from an Australian outback freight company who run three of them all with serious ks and no major work needed.
the other biggies hesitate to collide headon with RE in market and those are soing are loosing money - honda , harley triumph ktm tvs bajaj all beaten badly in the 300-450cc segment with just 10k units sales combined vs the 80k units sold by RE
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Always amazes me how steady those hands are that paint the lines on the fuel tanks. Amazing job 👍
Yer, I love that clip. Very impressive skills.
I have seen a much longer video about that factory building those tanks. I was absolutely amazed at the skill of their staff.
Happy New Year Solid 🎉.
Great Episode as always 🍻.
I believe, as you mentioned that India, with a few Tweaks to its Mfg'ing processes and desires to be, Just better will eventually equal Japanese Reliability and quality.
Obviously there Intention is strong.
Its the rest of the planet that will dictate how India & Royal Enfield respond 🤔.
Cheers 🍻, G.
I agree. Probably not big coffee drinkers..... LOL
Take a look at Rolls Royce's guy that does the whole lateral of their cars..
nice proffesional presentation dude....thanks for not putting music or stupid clips in it...... everyone hates that these days, hats off
Always like your videos. I have a few bikes. Because my government is so shit, I work too much and ride too little. I hope everyone finds more time in the future to go on a few adventures this year.
imo India will be a major force, but by their own rules. They already have the upper hand in the sub-500cc market, so no need to spread capex and labour thin to compete with the west in manufacturing the larger capacity machines. “Stick to what you know best and fish where the fish are”. Good info and video 👍
India has its own pace. Slow and steady kind of pace. First do what you can do best then one step ahead by taking care of all. This is kind of psychology Indian companies got. It's working for them.
@@Blvo1india is not slow and steady. The condition in which india is performing is not easy in democracy with huge population with huge diversity and having very less money.
I’m with you those little Bajaj’’s are great and cheap.
But Enfield India isn’t in that market is it. They’ve survived by building the 350 Bullet the workhorse of India. The brakes are like cardboard. Tends to focus the mind in Indian traffic.
I’ve seen a few big bikes in India so I see an internal market. I think that’s more of their focus. Exports sure why not.
Speaking as a retired American, I would absolutely buy another India-made bike. Down here in Nicaragua, small cc motos are a way of life, and my Yamaha FZS has been a joy to own and ride. It is now 6 years old and still going strong.
If you love power then try Royal Enfield continental gt 650
Royal emfield are actually really nice machines. I hired some RE's for a day out with friends and was really impressed with the INT 650. Would happily own one
😎
I got off a Honda CBR1000RR and onto a RE Classic 350 and never looked back. Many more smiles per mile. And here in California I get people coming up to talk every time I stop somewhere. Never happened on the CBR. I have had it for a little over a year so we'll see about the quality, something which I never had to worry about in 40 years of owning Hondas. But it looks pretty solid so far.
I love enfields but the Indian build standards are not great.
If you own one I would replace any fastenings with better steel. :-)
I’m glad someone is talking about this. India is going to beat out china in manufacturing in the next ten years. A large portion of the Chinese workforce will age out soon with no youth to replace them. The brutal one child policy is reaping what it has sown.
Also India has been improving quality and has really captured the true spirit of riding.
Wrong.
China is using Ai automation to keep costs low and increase quality.
India has poor infrastructure, inequality, and unstable politics.
China is not following the playbook of Japan. The two countries could not be more different culturally. Japan is a nation of perfectionists and engineers, driven by an almost obsessive devotion to honor and quality. China is a land of cheap traders and counterfieters, whose only claim to fame is their complete lack of scruples when it comes to undercutting the competition on price.
Except Japan refuses to update their old dual sport bikes and refuses to produce an affordable rally bike (300 rally doesn't count). So they will be left in the dust by at least a portion of the market. It's like they are begging for China to beat them.
Bikes like the Honda XR650, the KLR, and the Suzuki DR640, do not need updating. They are built to be affordable, reliable, machines, and they do that very well. The KLR went fuel injection, because they had to, yet are still affordable. The sales numbers speak for themselves. KTM's have more power, but have big reliability issues. Pick your poison. You want way more power, you will kiss off affordability, and a lot of sales numbers, especially in economies like the one we have now. Motorcycles are toys, for 99% of riders, and are some of the first vehicles sold when money gets tight.
@@inrptnspot on. Japan is asleep at the wheel and China is breaking new ground
@@m.d9726 Japan has been cutting corners, They have been caught a number of times doing shady shenanigans...Its not the 70-90s period of time. Japan is stuck and they're traditional loyalty is now holding them back to the past. Most of the Japanese modern engineering is made in china anyway because they can't compete on price of production.
I suggest you do some researche into the past, and even today what you wrote, is quite far from the truth
I was in India last month. There’s huge improvement on motorcycles market and everything for that matter. It’s huge economy, there’s huge opportunity for any company that has good products. Even KTM with mediocre product quality/reliability is doing good in India.
Interesting to see kove in the dakar rally. Im old enough to remember peoples bias against Japanese bikes in the 70's.
India is the new china is the new japan! (Bike production)
Hero which is an Indian company, currently has a dakar 2024 stage win and ross branch their driver is leading over all as of now.
I didn't know who hero motorsports were until I saw that motorcycle win a stage.
China may have an edge in superbikes. India will be top MC producer in 650 cc and below.
After Kove has built 500/1000 press bikes the crap will start to slip thru !
RE North American HQ is located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA blocks from the Harley Davidson HQ. Maybe RE is sending a not so subtle message.
They did the same with triumph lol
Mmm, capitalism
You know they are. While HD focuses on $25k - $50k bikes that nobody is buying RE is coming in with plenty of offerings not over $7500 providing a bunch of riders a pathway to getting on 2 wheels. Hell I've ridden Honda sportbikes for 40 years, got off my CBR1000RR and just got a Classic 350 and couldn't be happier in my decision. I could by 2 RE's for what even Triumph offers and they're made in Thailand. Look now at all the manufacturers that import into the West scramble to follow RE's lead.
4:30 this is where you hit the nail on the head.
My dad was born in 1925. After the war he said that the opinion of "Japanese made" was 'the stuff is garbage'. You can even see that in the movie "Back to the Future" where the 1950's "Doc" says 'no wonder the microchip failed, it was made in Japan'. Japan is now recognised as a tier 1 producer of quality products. Equally, India is seen as poor quality, but evidence is there that within 20 years (which is the blink of an eye... look back 20 years) they can become tier 1 as well.
Additionally, textiles from the sub-continent aren't considered poor quality. Bangladeshi, Indian and Sri Lankan cloth is pretty good stuff. So, clearly it's "where they are put their effort" which dictates the quality of Indian manufacture.
Economic growth in India will incentivise manufacturers to move product upscale. If living standards rise as quickly as anticipated, India's motorcycle buyers will demand higher quality when they go to purchase their next bike. This will benefit bike lovers worldwide.
Our roads are not built for heavy bikes (india).
@@sourabhkumar1338 Wonderful. I live on the Canadian prairies and a typical highway motorcycle here weighs 800 pounds. I hate those gargantuan machines. My dream bike weighs under 450 pounds but yet is silky smooth at 110 kph, has cruise control and a wide seat that still feels good after a four hour ride. The thing about healthy economic growth is that it gives people the option of buying more expensive vehicles but it also gives governments the resources needed to build better roads. I hope Indian purchasers reject the western idea of massive machines as their affluence grows and that the world gets better lighter bikes as a consequence. Given the high percentage of the world's motorcycle output going to India, it's customers will have a large influence over bikes for the rest of us. The Internet tells me that yearly bike sales in America and Canada combined are under 700,000 and falling but for India it's over 17 million and probably growing. Looking forward your choices will matter a lot more than ours.
As an Indian the new Himalayan 452 is amazing. I have booked mine and should be getting it delivered by end of March.
I was also hoping for KTM to tease the updated 390 ADV and I was stoked when I saw the leaked images. But as before, KTM for whatever reason wants to short change the Indian market. A recent slew of images showed the new KTM 390 adv with 19 inch fronts rather than the 21 in the international market.
As a RE BS4 Hemi owner in the USA, it’s sad to see the ‘new one’ morph into ..something like everything else.. Over here, it’s been a simple (air cooled long stroke single) packhorse, ‘at home,’ it seems you guys are rooting for something else 😣 ‘America’ needs a utilitarian bike, not another enduro-like crotch-rocket
@@vf5126 well India is sort of just seeing a real economic boom for the first time where people are ready to spend money on things like motorcycling for fun. Also at the same time the economy isn't as developed on an individual level that people can own multiple motorcycles (one for touring like a GS, a dirt bike for trails etc) and due to our insane population density, we don't have space to keep multiple motorcycles even if we could afford them.
Our road infrastructure is getting so much better and the old Himi 411 while a brilliant bike gets quite annoying on the highways. I think the new 452 fixes that.
I get your point but for our market the new one makes a lot of sense and I think even internationally RE is filling a very big gap in this segment. These ADVs are getting ridiculously heavy and complicated with too many electronics.
Glad to know you're enjoying the 411 Himi. 👍Lovely bike. Maybe RE will still continue to make it (doubtful).
@@Whatreally123 Thanks for such an eloquent and accurate response(!). I’d waited 3 or 4 years for the Hemi to reach the US, just wanted a utilitarian pack mule - and got it! And yes, my second bike is a ‘wee-strom,’ for our ‘interstates.’ And yes, the new 450 Hemi will definitely fill a niche, both at home and abroad. ..so when replacement time comes for my BS4, I’m looking at new KLR’s.. If Kawasaki can ship a ‘finished’ engine 🙂
@@vf5126 I have ridden the new Himin452 and the low end torque is not there as the 411. But not a big problem. It's just that if the revs are probably less than 1.5k rpm. Riding position and the suspensions are spot on and far better than the 4111. So give it a try to see if you like it. Of course not the mule character for sure.
Or why not a Kove 450? It's getting great reviews.
I got sick of waiting for KTM to release a proper dirt oriented 390 adventure. This 450 seems like what I've been looking for.
You are a whiner and you've no idea what you want. KTM has a whole EXC series of dirt bikes - 150, 250, 500, yada, yada.
The bigger reason is not just man power or work force but most importantly the emotion of people towards motorcycles. It is this emotion that all the brand has to respect and hence, they make such decent performing bikes. If you see the advertisement of any bike of hero, Bajaj, RE you will see how they connect with people. It hardly flaunts the power figures. This is the same reason now they also doing good for western markets because they are trying to build community first especially RE I don't know till which point they will do so and like big four start bleeding the community by selling overexpensive bikes.
Royal Enfield is doing it now. I own 2. What I don't need is a 1800 CC bike for 30,000 dollars.
Love my 2021 Himmy.
India already kinda catching up in Africa and Europe. And saw Honda India trying the vintage look to go against Royal Enfield. Hero and Bajaj is also doing good for years outside of India. Specially in Europe and Africa and started in Australia and America.
Just waiting to see how the Himalayan 450 performs long term, by then ill be able to actually afford one 😂
Great analysis brother! In my opinion, today's 600cc are equivalent to 2000s 1000cc bikes in outcome, soon just like 4 wheeler even 2 wheelers will be made with smaller engines and 500 to 700 cc would be the centre of attraction.
Wisconsin had so many small engine manufacturers, but they could only make them so clean.
I read something from 'The Economist' that said India would probably have an edge over China in creativity. I'm trying to imagine how that would play out in the motorcycle industry.
Time will tell
India buys the vast majority of their own goods. China does not. India drives it's own demand. Their supply will fulfill their demand
Go the opposite of anything that that imperial pamphleteer writes. You’ll make tons of money.
Indian manufactres priorities the Indian market demands. As indian living standard increases they should start making expensive and powerful and advance bikes.
I'm putting my money on India, functional, rugged & built for purpose (Himalayan 450) without 100 screws to get the fairings off. I watched someone strip down a CFMoto 800mt lost track of the steps to get fairings off, even before getting to the tank just to check/change plugs. While I love the idea of a smooth running 450 twin, it will be just too much trouble for me as a maintainer.
So I laid down my cash on one. Even though it is on the heavy side. At my age, why not take a risk.
Loving my KTM390 adv, a few years ago I would never have considered an indian built bike. The 390 is a hoot in the twisties and so light on the rough stuff. My other bike is a 2020 Africa Twin, I've been surprised at how enjoyable the 390 has been. I don't think this will be my last Indian bike. I cannot see myself buying a Chinese bike primarily as I find their politics alarming.
And you DON'T find it alarming that we can't even answer phone calls because of spoofed numbers, or escape a zillion scam texts, and have to spend hours deleting scam emails.....ALL from a dirty squalid country where everyone squats to take a dump anywhere the urge arises and wipes with their bare hands?
Chances are my next bike will be either a Royal Enfield Classic Signal 350, or the Shotgun 650. Both good looking bikes with great appeal. 😎
That little 350 is a looker. I’m hoping they do just as good a job on the classic 650 🙂
Apart from royal enfield, I think the ones to watch would be TVS and Hero. Both companies have aspirations for the international market, but it might be years before any of it actually materializes
No Bajaj is a much bigger international player
@@ind-rishiyt1600 correct me if I'm wrong but Bajaj seems to be more interested in partnering with other brands, while TVS and Hero are developing their own designs more
@@semicharmedkindofguy3088 yes , now we can see how hero's Dakar Rally Project has materialised , I feel there's a lot more to come!!
Another great analysis of the industry. I also agree with the viewer that said thanks for not having a loud, hyper, flashing pictures and music louder than your voice.
Thanks for the feedback. It’s hard to know if I’m hitting the mark without it 👍 I try to keep the music and clips balanced.
Excellent deep view,thanks a lot and I totally agree with you.I spent some years working in India and China too,in 2050 the strongest economy will be India ,tradition and culture is pushing India further. Waiting for my RE 452 ,I've got already the 411 and I am one of those that recognizing Chris Birtch as a legend,I remain with feet on the ground 😂 being 6.2 that's easy on the RE🎉😂👍
Additional information:
Bajaj owns almost 50% stake in KTM
TVS owns Norton and also contract manufactures low capacity BMW
Mahindra owns BSA
Baby Aprilias are being made in India
Great article. Keep it up.
Chronicles of solid, still the best motorcycle review platform out there
Cheers Ron 👍
Indian motorcycle companies have largely won in Africa, bajaj and tvs are dominating in africa and are winning in south america as well. South east asia is largely still japanese since they have strong brand following and are not forgiving to outsiders and Europe is still an early market for Indian companies. TVS HERO and Bajaj and ev startups like OLA, Ather should enter europe in a big way and I am sure they will make huge impact.
This was the sort of intelligent and informed analysis and commentary I've come to expect from this channel. Thanks.
If an Indian motorcycle company wants to expand internationally and offer higher profit margin products, the major motorcycle manufacturers have left them an engraved invitation by refusing for decades to sell us the ADV bike we *really* want. If Bajaj or TVS wanted to leverage the quality lessons learned from manufacturing for KTM and BMW and make THE bike for the western world, make a reliable 450 cc or 500 cc single cylinder engine, and build a lightweight bike around it that is good for off road and on road use. It doesn't need the light weight, geometry and suspension of a dirt bike, but don't add plastics to make a street bike look more like an ADV bike. Design it for both, similar to the Himalayan but not as heavy. The goal is a bike that's lightweight to perform well off road, but with the 50 HP for comfortable highway cruising when needed. Give it a 5 gallon fuel tank and a large rear rack. Bonus points for an aluminum bash plate and some engine protection bars. Buy a Bosch ABS system if you aren't up for designing your own. Keep it simple, but the minimal equipment needs to be of high quality. No cheap Chinese switch gear. Learn to use aluminum instead of steel when it can save a few pounds. We'll pay for that weight savings. Have an importer/dealer in each country and ship direct to the consumer. Sell the parts needed to support the bikes. You do not need (or want) the overhead of a dealership network.
Thanks mate and wells aid
Interesting times ahead. 😊
The first batch of CF Moto MT 450 is already sold out before it hits our shores
Just shortly before the new RE Himi was introduced, I decided to downgrade from a Norden 901, in favor of something lighter and got myself a Husky 701 which I am "adventurizing" right now. If I had known the new Himi back then, I might very well have considered it, even that its not that much lighter. It is a HUGE step... no leap forwards for RE! A chinese bike? Well, buying a bike is also about aftermarket support and here RE has a clear advantage, even that there are only two (well estabished) dealerships here which I know of.
Yes, ubiquitous dealers and experienced mechanics are HUGE advantages of the Big Four Japanese bike manufacturers.
Dude you are a very smart guy. Know about everything perfectly. I am from India that's why I am saying this. I can confirm to every single point you said.
until this video, i didnt really think about the fact that im most interested in a CF moto450 or the Triumph 400. one china, one india. makes me think a bit more about things.
India already is. Honda et al cannot ignore them. I am considering buying a new Himalayan but choice? Crf/t7/690 etc and of course price does make a difference. thanks for the insight. Happy New Year. William.
From India, good stuff mate. It's all about quality, guess that's why RE is heading to Baja & then Dakar
China is already in Dakar.
@@kl9518so is india...hero just finished at podium
Indian bikes are huge in south america, Bajaj, Royal Enfield, Hero and TVS can be found everywhere, in my country Bajaj is fighting the sales leadership with Honda by offering bikes more powerful and with more features at a lower price, I have a Dominar 400 and it's been great til now.
Happy New Year! I think you are spot on. China has always been at the bottom of the list for products. Many people in North America live in a throwaway culture. For them cheap is the only answer. I grew up in the construction industry where good tools and be materials last a lifetime. The buy-once cry-once philosophy has served me well. I still use tools my father and grandfather passed down as well as my own tools that have lasted 30+ years.
Enjoyed that, very well presented thanks.
I wish India would consider selling TVS motorcycles and Scooters in the USA. They are really good quality. BMW contracted with them to build the BMW 310R motorcycle, and it gets wonderful reviews. The gentleman whose channel is bikes and beards did a review of it a couple of years ago and he really liked it.
I currently have a 22 KLR and a 24 Transalp in the garage. The TA is a fantastic motorcycle, but I really prefer the low tech simplicity of the KLR, just no the top heavy geometry and paint shaker vibrations. If the RE Himalayan can do what the KLR does with less vibes and the same low COG a the 411, I'll sell both my current bikes and just go full in with RE. For the market, I think you hit the nail on the head with demographics. In the short term, China may pull ahead, but I think India is the long term replacement for Japan.
Unfortunately all the reviews suggest it lacks the low-end grunt of the 411.
India is more focused on the affordable markets outside of the home turf, especially in the continent of Africa, and also in Southeast Asia. Sure, Indian quality may not be on par with Triumph, BMW, etc. but the important thing to consider here is that the markets of developing countries can't afford the "luxury" brands either. Enter Indian brands. They are definitely better quality products than that of China. They are a little bit more expensive than the cheap Chinese bikes, and a little more affordable than the Japanese bikes, while providing comparable levels of quality, reliability, and fuel efficiency(might even be higher in fuel efficiency and reliability if you consider the Bajaj Boxer and the Hero Splendor). TVS and Bajaj alone were able to drive out 160 out of the 200 motorcycle companies operating in Africa.
Hero Motorcorp sell the motorcycles with the best warranty in South Africa that I know of. The impression I get is that their quality may actually surpass that of Honda. I wish they will start building larger capacity bikes.
Hero is actually very active in the Dakar rally. I'm hoping they release a bigger capacity XPulse.
Btw how is the sales number of the XPulse in SA? I'm hoping to create few accesories and export to other markets from India. 😀
very poor ..comparing other dualsports @@Whatreally123
@@Whatreally123 hero dakar is a contract with speedbrain racing which are basically husky/bmw 450s from yesteryear. It's not their own effort. Hero as a company is incapable of making anything world class.
@@Whatreally123 I have seen quite a few of them on the roads, but I believe the numbers are not that much compared to other countries. It seems like the very cheap bikes are selling well and also the bigger bikes like BMW GS. But the market for bikes in between is not that active here.
Service os legendary.. bad in India. 😮😢
A really good look. Thank you.
Absolutely Yes, I will buy one.
Royal Enfield bikes are good... i had classic 350 for almost 2 years and its so reliable and comfortable ❤
The future isn't big capacity motorcycles. The future is in smaller lighter motorcycles anyway, so India is already ahead of the game.
I was disappointed when I found the Australian version of the Harley x500 is made in china, not India. I would by an Indian made bike, but not a Chinese one. Someone can correct me if I am wrong though.
Fantastic content! Thanks
Good stuff. I think the last point is key from a business aspect. For export, more money on R&D, to sell a more expensive bike to a relatively (compared to local sales) small group of riders… I’d wonder if it makes much sense economically. Then again, China is doing it. 🤔. Don’t know the answer, but selling “us” bikes that they also can sell in India, makes a lot of sense to me
I own a 2019 royal enfield continental gt 650 and have had zero issues with it , awesome bike .
Interesting, insightful and well researched. A lifetime of bikes, and now with two REs alongside a Suzuki, I think the Indians have a strong chance against China - of alongside China. It's well to talk of the other traditional manufacturers fighting and of price wars, but as you say early on, many of them already have deals with one or both India and China.It's a global market and these two will be the biggest 'factories'.
Not to forget the other Asian locations - Honda with the CB500X made in Thailand, and Triumph or course.
Just watched this….insightful and perceptive ✔️
India is awakening !!
That was excellent.
I really enjoy your videos and know that you must enjoy being a new Daddy. Keep up the good work.
I from india and prices of bikes here are now skyrocket and economic is very bad here
How do Indian riders feel about name brand Chinese bikes, on average?
@@domenik8339 we consider chinese as backstabbers
I'm also from India and I don't see anything bad with economy although prices have changed
You should also check Bajaj-Pulsar and TVS-Apache bikes
Apache 310 is BMW 310 TVS manufactures for BMW
Simple and clear that point
Proud himalayan owner here!!
I quite simply will not buy a Chinese-manufactured motor vehicle and I'm a Brit so I feel an affinity with India for historical, curry and cricket-related reasons. The only thing stopping me buying an RE is the continued wait for their 650 scrambler.
If India made a readable motorcycle similar to Ducati V twin that handles. I'd think about buying one.
Good report Cos.
As you have said they have to meet the challenges, set fourth.
India must make sure that the quality control is as good as Japanese industry. Especially the quality and consistency of materials.
One thing about Royal Enfield is that they listen/respond to their customer base, that's huge.
ALL OF AFRICA LOVE ❤️ INDIA MADE MOTORCYCLES.THESE MODELS ARE SOLID AND VERY LITTLE MAINTENANCE.ALL AFRICA LOVE INDIAN BIKES.
Indian bikes such as Hero motocops , bajaj , and tvs has separate market in india and africa. That is low cc affordable bike. Eg. Bajaj palatina a 100cc bike that give mileage upto 75kmpl thats huge. People who look for mileage goes for it. Now they started colabarating with european brands to make premium motor cycles. In five year indian brands make affordable premium motor cycle.
Excellent presentation Solid!
Much appreciated!
A point in India's favour that you forgot to mention: They understand us. What ticks our box generally ticks theirs. We share a lot of cultural aspects. For that you can thank firstly their colonial past and secondly the fact that RE has set up their design shop in Leicestershire, and few minutes from Hinkley. Very smart!
Personally I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the CF Moto 450MT.
Me too. it ticks a lot of boxes for me.
Not ready.
India is fully involved now.
very good points and yes India does have a chance to be a major player in the west but they haven't arrived. KTM and BMW are the gold standards of quality but are becoming unaffordable to most riders whose budget are now decreasing for nice to have items like motorcycles. This storyline is consistent with the shift in location from China to India of cell phones and ICs. The other factor is the increasing political animosity between China and the west
Good sign for India is that they are not in rush and also not looking for quick buck…in given price segments even Japanese companies are struggling to compete with Indian manufacturers… as Indian bikes and cars at the prices Indians can afford have same reliability as of Japanese products… however outside of India Indian manufacturers have to do research about the culture in new markets…which some companies are already doing it for example mahindra global pickup is getting tested and developed in Australia…
Based on internal sales I'm not sure they have anything to lose
Happy New Year CoS 🎉
Same to you🎉
one issue i cant get over is how pricing is extremely lopsided... the hunter 350, for example is a 150,000 rupee bike... and somehow it ends up being $4,000 usd and $7,500 aud.. like really? even with sales tax it dont make sense. And so someone is making a heap of a money and someone is getting screwed. So why would you buy this for $7,500 aud when there's much better buying elsewhere... unless you really dig the 20hp single cyl. life...
It's called PPP - purchase power parity. It's priced that way only because your country doesn't manufacture anything the last few decades but your salary kept increasing
Better quality for export. Also more margins to dealers cause sales is less per dealer whilst manpower costs r more.
India manufacturing tooling is atleast 2 decades behind rest of asia for eg. Thailand, Indonesia etc.
India will definitely become a motorcycle powerhouse. The success of Royal Enfield is staggering 👍
Went to a dealership this morning to pre-order a Himalayan.
Hi Solid. Love your videos. ❤ The new Himalayan really interests me. I am currently riding a Suzuki DRZ 400e for adventure riding. As you said, the price is what grabs my attention. The Himalayan is affordable. My only question is reliability. I’m still not sure if it is worth the leap. 😊
Thanks mate. I would personally hang with the DRZ a little longer and see how the RE stacks up in the real world first. I’m always a little cautious (no matter the brand) when it’s a completely new engine/chassis. YMMV
Maybe a minus or not they all look old school in the modern adventure world.
@@toqtoq3361 japanese forms doesn't follow function then :)
Plastics are not useless on an offroad bike. They are designed to flex when you crash instead of breaking and to be cheap and easy to replace. They also eliminate the need for redundant parts, like heavy metal crash bars.
Their tiny 350cc 20 hp engine just does not cut it here in USA. They're beautiful bikes but not practical here. Now I am interested in the new Himalayan, not for sale here yet. So I just bought a used BMW f650 Gs, a single cylinder that makes a little more hp and torque than their 650 twin !
USA is a very small market for motorcycles and literally no one gives a shit about.
Only learning curve will understanding the culture of new markets…
I think you will find units sold rather than revenue they already are quite a big player.
Good story Solid.
Well researched.
For what it’s worth I have no problem buying a Chinese bike.
They make half of what I consume anyway, so what difference will another thing make.
They are also starting to make decent bikes and that’s the bottom line for me.
I have been riding Japanese bikes my entire life and not long before I started we were at war with each other.
If they make good bikes cheaper than the others I’m happy to buy one.
At worst it might force the others to pull their fingers out.
See you on the trails😎
👍
Your so right! I have a Kawasaki z 400 2022 and even though it is faster than the royal Enfield I can't carry anything with it. For a around town ( laundry, groceries and passenger) im upgrading to a 350 super meteor. Cheap on gass and insurance. And most of all dealership closer to me. VERY IMPORTANT?!
Markets follow the customers. When indian customers start expecting better and better, they are also willing to pay more. So, the manufacturers will up their design and quality game to stay relevant or perish. Hopefully, that turnaround happens sooner than later.
My 10 year old Indian yamaha has had couple of cables new tyres new chain.. thats it.
As an RE Himalayan owner, looking to upgrade, India’s relationship with russia instantly sours me.. Also, the new “Himalayan” is no longer the ‘packhorse’ platform I wanted. Japan has my attention..
Virtually everything on the 452 was built specifically for that model, as an ADV bike.
From 100 cc to 250 cc bikes … I can confidently say that Indian bikes are very very hard to beat…
Harley is having problems here in the US with their riding base aging out. Kudos to Royal Enfield for seeing the future.
I think that India will eventually usurp China in motorcycles. No political impediments. Rapidly improving quality. An example in cars was a road test of Mahindra Pik Up 4x4 with 500 000 kms from Redriven youtube and thumbs up from an Australian outback freight company who run three of them all with serious ks and no major work needed.
Live axle front end as well on the Mahindra's😎
Too bad the Australian distributors can't even supply a manual gearbox Mahindra. Automatic not very practical for the country-owner.
Thailand is in too .
Happy new year bud, I think they already are mate 👍🏻
Happy new year!
The problem is they wanted to end the production of internal combustion engine in 2030.
the other biggies hesitate to collide headon with RE in market and those are soing are loosing money - honda , harley triumph ktm tvs bajaj all beaten badly in the 300-450cc segment with just 10k units sales combined vs the 80k units sold by RE