How Witcher 3's Expansions Took a Big Risk
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- In this video, I discuss something that caught me off guard the first time that I played Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone!
I have been thinking about this topic for a while so I fired up my recording software and I just started rambling for 10 minutes, and after a bit of editing, here is the result. It's my first attempt at a video without reading a script so please share any constructive feedback in the comments!
Thanks a lot for watching and please consider subscribing and liking the video if you enjoyed. I have more Witcher 3 videos coming soon!
If you want to support me even more, consider becoming a member! / @muskeys 
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B+W is the best big of DLC ever. Of any game. Throughout The Witcher we get a very Northern perspective on the Nilfgaardians, it was incredibly refreshing to get a rich and proper view of a bit of Nilfgaard and the culture.
I first wanted to disagree and say that there are at least some contenders, e.g.:
- Fallout: New Vegas (Lonesome Road)
- GTA 4 (Ballad of Gay Tony)
- Bloodborne (Old Hunters)
- Mass Effect 3 (Citadel)
- Supreme Commander (Forged Alliance)
- Warcraft 3 (The Frozen Throne)
But after thinking about it you should really rate DLCs by comparing what they add to the base game and with B+L you get a lot of new enemies, some mechanics (though that's the weakest part of B+L, e.g. the Mutagens are great but they don't really change the gameplay in any significant way), a new region with an entirely different feel compared to the nitty-gritty of the main game, new lore, new great characters (though I liked the characters from HoS more, there was way more depth to them) and some amazing gameplay moments (I especially liked the tourney and the Marlene mini-story and of course the Land of a Thousand Fables).
It's a close one but I have to agree, B+L wins it for me, too.
Heart of Stone is my favourite of 2. Olgierd and Gaunter's character are very interesting plus the ending you can choose from. Perfect DLC
Interesting thoughts! I hadn’t even thought about the fact that there are very few returning characters from the other games in the DLCs.
To me Regis always felt like a returning character (I hadn’t read the books first time I played Blood and Wine), which goes to show how incredible the character writing is in the Witcher 3.
Thanks for a great video as always!
Thanks a lot! Yeah I mean, I feel like as soon as we start playing the expansions, it's very obvious that it's high quality content. So it doesn't exactly make you think about how it could be improved.. But with hindsight, I think it's fair to question their choice. It doesn't mean that it was a bad one of course, but I thought it could make an interesting conversation!
I haven't thought about this! Thanks. Blood and wine brings back many monsters from Witcher 1,to me that helped a lot
First off...i actually think not having a script fits your style really well! Because I didnt notice any sloppiness or incoherent thoughts, it felt compelling and well thought out so bravo!
Second off, great topic and its one reason I really like Hearts of Stone (havent played Blood and Wine yet...cant wait to get to it!). It feels like I'm meeting new people and having a new adventure which I think might have been slightly undermined if the major characters from the base game were around more.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback! I was a bit scared to try something new but I am happy to see that it is received relatively well! But yeah, if you enjoyed how ''new'' HoS felt, get ready for something even more drastic with B&W! At least, in my opinion. I know you played B&W a little bit (If I recall correctly), but yeah it's going to be a wild ride!
A really cool video idea and an entertaining topic, you are very original. and dont worry as you said, we (at least I) dont expect to hear exuses from you as long as there are new vids (no pressure on the time, tho)
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words! But yeah, my goal is always to upload more often, I think 2024 will be interesting.
Criminal how quality content like yours doesnt get exposure!
Keep up
Thanks for the kind words! My videos certainly could be doing better, but they also could be doing much worse :) I am happy with what I have, I need to focus on what I can control! Still, I am happy to hear that you think my content is good and that it deserves more views!
How the fuck do you only have 450 subs. This video is of good quality and engages the viewer to openly discuss and debate ideas regarding certain topics, which appears to be lacking on most channels. I'll definitely be waiting for the next video.
Anyways besides that, in correlation to the proposed idea that new characters being introduced may have posed a risk towards the quality of the expansion may have been true, it was executed quite well, as you have said. Bear in mind that I have only played the third game and I am dying to see more of Vernon Roche and Zoltan, which I will get in the second game so my perspective will be somewhat altered. Anyways, here are my thoughts on Blood and WIne.
The thing I loved most about the expansion was the juxtaposition against the typical base Witcher game theme regarding dark medieval tones, and generally gritty and depressing environments, which was most commonly seen in Novigrad (i.e public executions, rife crime, dirty streets and prostitution). Leaving the Novigrad area, and post Hearts of Stone which was especially depressing with the story of Olgeird and his wife, not to mention Gaunter, only to be lead to Toussaint was like jumping from Game of Thrones to the Lord of the Rings. Toussaint turned out to be this high fantasy land of Knights of Chivalric values, a queen in distress (Like in fairy tales), and a land of fables that impede the possibility of lack of moral value in Toussaint, hence the many Honorable figures such as Palmerin, Milton, Guillaume and many others.
You could also argue that the previously stated dark tropes of the base game were maintained in the expansion through the presence of the main antagonist (Syanna) as she participates in some pretty despicable acts such as being socially and emotionally manipulative towards Detlaff and causing the death of many. Not to mention the brutal attack on the city. I would concur that this mixing of the games base themes of grittiness/death and the fairytale like land of Toussaint is truly an art in itself. I think it is something that is truly unique and is not often though of or celebrated as imagine trying to mix batman from the new 2022 film with Narnia. Although my comparison may seem farfetched my belief still stands that the introduction of new themes and the blending of the original themes was both much needed and extremely refreshing.
Apologies for the text dump, it's not very often I get to express feelings regarding this amazing game. Damn with all this writing I might as well make my own review lol.
First of all, thank you for the kind words. What you said means a lot to me. I make these videos because I want to share my passion for this game with other players and when I read that watching my video made you want to voice your opinion and join the discussion, to me, it's a big win.
Now about B&W, I find your description of the expansion very accurate. I agree with everything you said. I find the transition from HoS to B&W very drastic and yet, it's done in a way that's not too overwhelming. Instead, it just made me eager to go and explore Toussaint and learn their culture. It's a refreshing and interesting location, one that obviously differs with a lot of what we know from the rest of Witcher 3. Some things are definitely a bit ''extreme'' but I think the key for me was that it still felt believable most of the time. Sometimes they play on that limit a little bit but it's usually in moments of lesser importance. I also think that spending a lot of time with Regis/Detlaff/Syanna brought a darker, more grounded side to the expansion. Like you mentioned, what CDPR managed to do with B&W is really impressive!
I'd definitely watch your Witcher 3 videos! We need more people making videos! Again, thanks for watching!
@@muskeys haha thanks man glad to be apart of this, keep doing what you’re doing!!
hearts of stone was great. blood and wine as well. HoS was shorter but the characters and Olgierd's story packed a bigger punch. BaW was longer and gives you a new and large world to explore. Toussaint is also such a wonderful world to roam in.
glad to have bought the goty edition so I could get it all in one package.
Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine are on or above the level Shivering Isles from Oblivion was and I'm saying that with the most nostalgia a man can hold for a game
I honestly didnt even notice that there were so little returning characters. So it just says how good the story in them was. But i loved bringing back shani i missed her from witcher 1
Yeah, it's cool to see her again in Witcher 3!
I liked blood and wine because it was a nice change of scenery after hours in the damp, cold a nd depressing norther kingdoms.
Absolutely, it's a breath of fresh air! The atmosphere is completely different.
Liked and subscribed, awesome video please upload more !
Thanks a lot for the support, I'll do my best to upload more often!
The B+W DLC is a whole ass game, and the HoS has the best storyline I've seen in a video game ever.
Yeah, I agree with all that. Gets me excited for future games!
Keep working, your video's are very good
Thanks, I appreciate it! More coming soon!
They should make one more Witcher
best video man
The feedback: best stick to the script. This video didn't have much valuable critique or discussion going on.
"It was risky to not use characters from the videogames" - maybe so, but the list of actual returning characters that are from the books is much longer. Regis, Anarietta, Peirak-Peiran and de Lonfal, Chianfanelli and others - their presence in the trailers (Regis, mostly) riled up people, started a lot of hype.
I don't think keeping the roaster of characters mostly fresh was a risk. I think it wasn't a big factor. The setting, the villain, the set pieces, the atmosphere - that's what PR campaign mostly focused on, and that is what's important to the audience. The pitch for the expansions probably went this way: "We wanna put Geralt in the middle of the famous Poland bed-story about the devil, and later we want him to return to Toussaint. Regis could be there, too."
Yup, I must say that I look back a that video as one of the worst I've made, mostly because of how unstructured it was. As for the actual topic of the video, I think it was somewhat interesting. I looked at it from my perspective, I'm still very early in the books (Blood of Elves) so I can't even tell who the returning characters are yet. I think it's fair to say that there are a lot of people who were in a similar position to mine when they first played B&W. A big mistake I made in the video was not making it clear enough that that's what I was referring to, the players who only played the games etc. But again, I didn't even know if there were returning characters so it's a bit tricky. Anyways, thanks for the feedback, it's always appreciated and I definitely do not plan to make more unscripted videos haha
@@muskeys keep it up!
💜
I feel like if you prefer the first and second book you will probably like HoS. On the other hand if you prefer 5-7 books you will like BaW.
The first two books are contained of short stories that really build personalities of characters, but they have some characters that will never be mentioned again in the rest of the books. (spoiler alert) For example in the second book there is a story in which geralt tries to forget about Yennefer and hooks up with some bard chick he met. In the same chapter he visits Atlantis like city in the ocean.
On the other hand from the third book forward the story is chronological, the majority of characters are well introduced at this point and are only set to grow more. Introduction of Regis is in the fifth book and he in my opinion does not change his personality from the moment in which is revealed his true identity as a vampire. As in the game he is pragmatical "humanist" that prefer helping his human friends instead of feeding on them. In the books everybody from their group has some purpose and Regis's purpose is to think, even Geralt had some moments in the book which were questionable, Regis always had the right answer way before Geralt could comprehand it thanks to his hotheadesness at the time. This remained the same in the game, for example he warns Geralt of going to the Unseen Elder that ends by getting the duchess and Syana killed at the end.
I think CDPR did a great job making those dlcs.
It is simply new and adventurous versus the known and classical.
I stopped reading your comment when you started talking about the introduction of Regis because I am in blood of elves right now and I don't want to spoil it for myself haha! But I will say that I love everything I have read so far. The short stories are great and I really like the first 220 pages of blood of elves as well so far. I'm really happy I bought the books!
@@muskeys I hope you will enjoy the books as much as I did. Tho u yet have plenty of pages ahead of you :D
if there is one character in the entire books/games series I couldn't care less about it's Dandelion.
You've got an interesting point of view but it's one I've never shared. I think both expansions are great as they are. They've got enough content and enough characters already. Personally I never missed anyone in them.
true, I like how the dlc:s display the storytelling of the shorter stories in the books. A lot of the witcher stories constantly introduce new characters, and with good writing they are almost always great. It's kind of like Yakuza 6, where there is barely any returning characters for the bulk of the game, making the story more centered around the main character, in this new situation, I would 100% say it adds a level of immersion not a lot of experiences can include.
I get if you say game Dandelion is meh, but book Dandelion? Really? I didn't think it possible.
@@AlfonsJQuack book dandelion is better but is still by far the worst out of everyone in Geralt's Hansa
@milam3294 For me personally, Dandelion trumps Milva, Angoulême and Cahir. I'd like to know what exactly you dislike about book Dandelion.
What do you have against Dandy? He's Geralt's best friend, they have great chemistry and he's funny as hell imo.
still waiting for the joseph anderson witcher 3 video, so no matter how long you take inbetween videos, it probably wont be as long a wait, hahah.
Oh, that's a fair assumption 😂Hopefully Joseph's Witcher 3 video comes out one day..
2:37 I mean there are more returning characters if you count characters in the novels?
I am currently reading Sword of Destiny. I still have many books left to read so, it's hard for me to tell who was also in the books! When making the video, I was mostly focused on the characters that are present in the trilogy. I can't wait to figure out which characters are also in the books tho!
@@muskeys I’m not finished the books yet, but I’ve immersed myself so far into the games that I’ve ended up with tons of book spoilers (not that I mind lol) so I may not be aware of every returning character, but they definitely do exist between the two DLCs. As a huge fan of Dettlaff though, I definitely agree that CDPR makes some amazing characters
What about Regis? He's in the books.
Yeah, I kind of forgot to explain what I meant by returning characters while recording the video. I mostly meant characters that are present in the trilogy of games, you know, characters that CDPR worked on in some way. You are not the only one pointing that out in the comments so it's clear that I should've taken the time to clarify that in the video!
Also, I am not done with the books yet (I just finished sword of destiny) so I can't really include much information about the books in my videos!
Nice video, I do prefer scripted, but this was fine as well, would continue to watch either way. Dandelion in B&W would have been great, he would really fit in there. I love Regis to death, but I wish they would stop bringing characters back from death. His death meant a lot in books. I loved Shani coming back, I always choose her in W1, she's amazing, but it was a bit awkward with the possession plot, and Geralt being kind of stiff (no pun intended), when in the book they already had sex, and she was very into him, and he wasn't shy at all, then W1 and now all of a sudden he's acting somewhat reluctant and stiff? Well as I said I still loved it. I actually would have liked to see more of Phillipa, Fringilla and from our love interest. More Eskel would have been great too. Maybe a vampire quest like Lamberts Jad Karadin quest, since Eskel is famous for partying with a Bruxxa and then narrowly killing it, while on Fisstech. Would have loved to see that in Toussant. Well as I said nice video, interesting topic, looking forward to your next video. Cheers
Thanks a lot! I appreciate the feedback.
You just made me imagine a quest with the whole Witcher squad going on a vampire hunt and, god I want that so bad hahaha!
Your point about Regis makes a lot of sense, I have not yet read a book where Regis is involved but it definitely removes some of the impact of his death in the books, especially for Witcher players. I'm not sure how I would've felt if I read the books first..
I didn't know that Shani was in the books! That's interesting, looking forward to see how she's involved, I am expecting Geralt to be stiff based on your description of the events 😂
I also would've loved to see more of all the characters that you mentioned. I guess I'm having a hard time saying goodbye. Depending on when the next Witcher games are set, we might never see again many of the characters.. :( It makes it even more painful that they were not utilized in the expansions.
Thanks again for watching!
Dandelion can be in B&W
Comment for the algorithm
I think you forgot about Regis. And Shani was in the books. It's not meant to be invasive just saying.
Yeah, I could've handled that better. I think I did a poor job at explaining ''my'' description of what a ''returning character'' is. I mostly meant characters that were part of the trilogy of CDPR games. Also, it's worth mentionning that I plan to read all of the books but I am currently only at the 2nd one. I don't know all of the characters yet, which in and of itself is not an issue in my opinion, I simply should've done a better job at clarifying it in the video! Thanks for the feedback
@@muskeys hope you enjoy the books. and thanks for clarifying.
@@muskeysyou will definitely like Regis when he shows up in the books. They handled him perfectly in BaW
@@whyonthefall5373 It's probably the thing I am the most excited to get to in the books!
HoS was nice and all but BaW blew me away just by how stunning and colorful everything looks, then there's the interesting story in which you're basically a detective trying to figure out who or what the Beast is and also a whole new map.
Yeah, Blood and Wine is a massive expansion and it's extremely refreshing!
pre 500
Lol, calling it a huge risk not having many returning characters in a DLC. Let's for argument sake pretend that one only has video game knowledge of the universe, because otherwise the idea is already pretty fragile.
Firstly HoS. The way it is implemented it would actually be pretty hard to have many reoccurring characters, as it can be played side by side the main story, so they would have to fit where the characters are at the moment with the story of the DLC, which would be difficult.
Secondly the story is pretty tight with few central characters, so there isn't much room for extra ones and choosing to focus on some from the previous games and books isn't a huge risk. Overall it feels like and extra substantial quest, just like the Bloody Baron and people are hardly complaining that that quest doesn't have any returning characters in it.
BaW could fit your point more, as it is a bigger DLC. But it is supposed to be played after the main game and is Geralt's next adventure in a new region. Many of the characters already got somewhat of a closure, so it would be best to let them be and focus on new ones. There is also the problem with the freedom of choices. Many of your friends fates are up to you and it would be problematic to incorporate them all or have them retcon some of your choices.
Overall, no it wasn't a big risk focusing on new characters and you see it a lot in similar games.
I'm not saying you are wrong. Let's just say you did not convince me haha
I'm basically saying in the video : It was bold to not put many returning characters in Witcher 3 expansions. You are saying : It was not bold because the way that THEY designed the expansions, they could not really bring many returning characters.. Yeah that's kind of my point. I know I briefly talked about the possibility of bringing returning characters in HoS or B&W but that's not my main point.
I think that it was a bold move to design the expansions in that way, from the beginning. It could've been easy for CDPR to play it safe and rely on characters that are already established, Lambert, Eskel, Iorveth (lol), Roche, etc. (of course there are a bunch more) Basically explore some storylines that were setup inside of the trilogy of games to make sure that there would be a direct connection for the player base, something with more depth than Gaunter, who pretty much had nothing. And yet they did not do that. In my opinion that was a good decision, but a risky one. You can disagree, in fact, I would love to hear more about what you think on this.
The example of the bloody baron quest, I think I disagree, at least for this specific example. Ciri is a CENTRAL part of that quest, not only do we play as her, the whole reason why Geralt is doing business with the guy is because of Ciri. There is a nice story that is not tied to Ciri in any way, but she is still the glue that makes everything stick together for a good part of it IMO. Later when she is not a part of it anymore, I would argue that the Baron had enough setup and that at that point, he is the returning character. Also that quest line is way shorter than an expansion.
Now, about many of the characters having already had a satisfying closure in the base game, it's tricky, for sure. I think CDPR has shown many times that they don't care about it if they think that it's worth it, for example : Geralt being with Triss in witcher 2 despite many players choosing Shani in Witcher 1. Regardless, I think that there are still numerous examples of characters that could've returned.
Also, I did an absolutely POOR job at explaining that the whole idea of that video was coming from my unique perspective, which is also one that many players have : I had only played the games and seen the netflix show (the netflix part, I regret.) I am reading the books, but I'm only at time of contempt. I recently learned that Shani is there lol, didn't even know!
I should also mention that I am not familiar with many story driven RPGs so I can't compare much.
Thank you for the lengthy comment, it made me think about many things and I appreciate it. Sorry for this very long answer lol
@@muskeys "You are saying : It was not bold because the way that THEY designed the expansions, they could not really bring many returning characters.."
No, the way they designed the main game meant they couldn't easily bring returning characters, that is quite a stark difference. It would be more challenging to bring them and thus more riskier.
"I think that it was a bold move to design the expansions in that way, from the beginning."
The nature of the main game plays a way bigger role in that decision that you don't even seem to consider.
"The example of the bloody baron quest, I think I disagree, at least for this specific example. Ciri is a CENTRAL part of that quest"
Here is the kicker that you forgot, Ciri isn't a returning character. We are not counting books. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
"Later when she is not a part of it anymore, I would argue that the Baron had enough setup and that at that point, he is the returning character."
Total nonsense statement, because that would make many other characters returning quite fast and it goes directly against your own point.
" Also that quest line is way shorter than an expansion."
Not really. Consider all that is part of the Baron. Meeting him, Ciri's stories, the peddler, the botchling, the crones and the spirit. It is actually quite substantial and pretty close to HoS in terms of hours.
"Geralt being with Triss in witcher 2 despite many players choosing Shani in Witcher 1."
Big difference between games or within the same game.
"Regardless, I think that there are still numerous examples of characters that could've returned."
You failed to name a single one, but let's go down the list with the closest to Geralt:
Ciri - no
Yen - no
Triss - no
Roche - no
Lambert - no
Kira - no
Vesemir - no
All of these have different end states or are dead.
Best candidates are:
Dandelion
Zoltan
Eskel
"Also, I did an absolutely POOR job at explaining that the whole idea of that video was coming from my unique perspective, which is also one that many players have"
No, I got that, hence why I disregarded the books.
Bottom line, it isn't really as risky as you initially thought. We see things like this constantly. Sometimes even riskier.
Dragon age let's us play the story from the villains side.
GTA IV have two DLC that are tied to one mission in the main game that links the whole thing together, you are playing other characters.
AC3 had a what if scenario with vastly different gameplay and fundamental change to the universe.
Revelation had an entirely new game mode that was vastly different to the core game.
Weren't they supposed to be part of the base game but got released as DLC because CDPR released a broken, unfinished game because they messed around in development for too long?
Honestly, I don't really know 😂 I'm just happy that we got the expansions regardless, I think they're amazing! Never heard anything about them being supposed to be in the base game, but maybe!
I'm gonna be 'that guy' and say that Heart of Stone partially ruined my enjoyment of the verse.
G.O.D. is both the lamest (imo) allegory of a demon (not so mysterious when the game quite literally tells you what he is and don't even have the decency to admit their storytelling failure) and has the atrocious disgrace of being badly implemented within the verse, for 2 reasons:
1) He dwarfs the other villains (unforgivable as far as i'm concerned).
2) Isn't even central in the story of the verse (that' would've at least partially excused the first point).
For me, he is an awful tentative of trying to deepen the lore, he came across to me as childish (his motives and mannerism is extremely pueril, this totally annihilate fear factor) and bland at the same time.
If you compare him to another mysterious figure (real one tt) like G-Man, the contrast in the way they're handled is shocking (and extremely disappointing, given how good CD PROJECT are in terms of writing).
Brother, you gotta structure your text better, it feels like you're rambling about without a point.
Thanks for the feedback. As mentioned in the description and at the end of the video, I was trying something new. It was my first time trying to make a video without a script. Most of the feedback has been positive so far but I'm aware that there's room for A LOT of improvement. I'll keep trying to find ways to make the videos better.
I said it with good intentions. You really nailed in the topic, it is really catchy, and a new angle, which is hard for Witcher 3. Caught my eye instantly. So if you put it together with a better script, I really do believe you'll catch a large audience.@@muskeys
Bruh, that's the first time i have seen anyone on YT give constructive criticism without sounding like a total douche, usually everyone is just so toxic, good on ya mate.
Dandelion is also in Blood & Wine if you get the Jail ending, so you can have two returning characters from the base game. I’m more upset that Ves is used so little after she can be a romantic interest in The Witcher 2. 🦘🦘🦘