Crazy how the video was barely out for an hour (mind you it's a half an hour video) and mf's already asking questions that could be explained had they just watched the ENTIRE damn video 🤣
Just my perspective: I enjoy some of the learning from guys like Paul and Joe, and I can appreciate that some conversations can be extremely nuanced and that there is an audience for that, but I don’t need a 33minute video on banded hack squats lol. I agree with you - if you’ve got questions you want to ask, be an adult and watch the video first. I just thought I’d provide a perspective from someone (me) who is probably like many people who follow Joe: interested in the science, but to a point. I do respect the amount of time Joe puts into something like this. Valid point that you made! 🙏
I am glad you released this video, to be honest this has also been a discussion between Dr Mike Israetel who is in favor of no bands vs Kassem Hanson who if I can summarize the discussion between them was more in favor of reverse banding the hack squat, and Kass has also an in lab experiment he did with the bands that pretty much has the same conclusion as yours which is that it is not only the maximal lengthened position important but adding bands increases the challenge through that last 25% of the movement (bottom to mid range). They both make great points and it was lovely to see your arguments here as well. Thank you for these videos!
Thank you for your great content Joe. It has changed a lot of aspects of my training for the better. As well too, you have a great way of communicating your knowledge and concepts. That's pretty rare. There are people that have the knowledge but it's hard to listen to them trying to relate it. Kelley Starret is someone who has been a knowledge source for me, but I really need to read his content to get what he is trying to put out. Not HC! Not nerdy, just right and not too serious.
Excellent and detailed explanation. I do these from time to time, but now the understanding of the science behind it has become better. I appreciate it!
I am a huge biomechanics nerd. It plays a large role in my personal training and the way I train my clients. I really love this series. Thank you so much!
Acute orthopedic relief will probably be the biggest plus for myself and my clients. Definitely trying this first for a bit then try with them. Thanks Joe. You thoroughly explain things in a truly unique way of explaining topics that anyone can understand.
Good video, coach. Definitely clears up the why to the banded hack squat question. However, as a physics nerd myself, I find it necessary to be aware of potential energy as part of an exercise's profile. The hack squat will always have the most potential energy at the top of the rails, banded or reverse banded (unless your reverse bands are stronger than the sled is heavy, which will change the equilibrium point to the middle of the rails rather than the floor). A lateral raise will have more potential energy if gone to super ROM rather than stopping with the arm parallel to the ground simply because it went higher off the ground. Potential energy is why everyone recognizes that a 5'5" deadlifter lifting 800lbs is less impressive than 6'8" deadlifter lifting 800lbs. The weight is the same, the lift is mechanically similar, however what differs is the height from the ground that the weight travels. A 6'8" deadlifter will impart much more force and expend much more energy into the 800lbs through the rep simply because his lock-out position results in the bar being 2ft off the ground. To be more accurate, lifting 800lbs 2ft off the ground requires 2169 joules of energy applied in a vector opposite of gravity, compared to 1084 joules for 1ft off the ground. This has massive implications for how much metabolic stress we can expect an individual to accrue over a workout or how an exercise will affect a person based on their height and lever lengths.
Yea! I have some questions i’ll post soon. Out of the 3 exercises I play with bands on, Leg Press to me feels most benefitted. Hack squat and incline smith-press are the other two.
Great video with great logic. Lots of strong people use bands to flatten the curve on movements and I think this could be really valuable for people training hypertrophy for strength sport etc
Thanks Joe for making a video like this one. Driving me nuts seeing all the people just jump on the lengthened hypertrophy bandwagon thinking that maximum loading in the “stretch” position is all that’s required without considering individualized joint torque for each exercise. I still can’t believe it’s phds espousing this and it feels akin to throwing the baby out w the bath water.
Like that you have 0 band tension at the top. Try that on reverse band deadlifts!! Set up for 0 band assistance at the knee. Training speed to pull faster than the band goes away.
This was great. Really appreciate the time and amount of detail you're putting into these, man! Also think the next video may have accidentally been published for a short time this morning. In for another banger
another perfectly timed video! doing banded hacks this afternoon 💪 I wish I had tried them years ago, they feel much better and I was able to add 70lbs so far. Got stuck in the bottom without the band. 2nd week of your 90's program and loving it!
Coach Joe needs to get his ass to my university's physics department, better at teaching mechanics than half the lecturers there lol. Another fantastic video, seriously thanks a ton.
I think the logic is sound. There is definiely an overestimation on short term studies conducted out of context of real life application. I think Joe does a fine job in commnicting the relatioship between "study" evidence and real world experience.
The study to compare the difference would actually be quite simple I think, because you just trained one leg with a band, and one leg without. Measure strength and size before and after, and you should have a pretty good idea of which one is better or worse, or if they end up producing the same results.
Very interesting HC. The flattening of the curve makes sense, and it could potentially increase the area underneath the curve. However, I do question how you have pictorial graphed the resistance profiles. You showed that the banded hack ending at a higher resistance than the non-banded hack. As far as I know the two exercises would end at the same level of resistance since the bands are doing no work at the end of the concentric. To steelman your argument you did say that clients tend to progress faster so maybe the way you graphed it is with respect to the heavier weights.
Love videos like this. I train squat, bench and deadlifts with bands and chains and love the effect. Don't go crazy with band tension though. LOL Also very good explanation as to the tension curve. Like the original Nautaulis machines. Increasing the load where you are stronger. Thanks for an awesome video
For all the good points Joe makes, if the sole purpose of training was to maximize hypertrophy, its hard to argue against the default resistance profile of the hack squat. The fact that you'll likely fail at the bottom + that you need to use lower weight compared to the banded approach keeps the SFR higher for the default profile. It you're an athlete looking to supplement your sport with strength training, then the banded variants are in business imho. Splitting hairs but hey, that's what we're here for.
@@Liftergeist Hey bud, if I'm a basketball athlete, would the banded hack squat be a better exercise choice when it comes to the squat variants? I find my vert significantly destroyed when I do regular ATG high bar back squats. I literally have muted jumps and jumpshots for days after those sessions. Trying to find a way to progress in strength and vert while still actively playing ball.
Good video Joe. You’ll have all the parrots in the pet shop squawking “No Bands” … “FULL ROM” after you triggered them with an image of Mike Israetel. I remember John Meadows and Dave Tate say the main reason they band the hack squat is for knee health. If you look at the EliteFTS hack squat, it has pegs at the top and bottom to attach bands. But, what would they know … neither of them had a Phd.
Hey Joe quick question, would you say that there is a better band to use for hacks than another. Like for instance a 20lb resistance band over a 40lb resistance band to flatten the curve out or does that not really matter?
That's the question I have. I tried hack squats with the bands and it was easier on my knees before seeing anyone talk about it. I'm ready to buy my own bands but my question is also about resistance of the bands
M lovin’ your video, pls pay me to learn more more from you, can? 🥰🥰.. my friend used band above knee bcos she tends to overpronate her foot n concurrently her thigh will open much wider n list control of her muscle even with her engagement of her muscle.. that’s why she use band when doing hack SQ.. I would like to learn more fr you.. thanks in advance 🥰
Hey Joe, I know more than you. Will you pay me? The topic is of my choosing, and not related to anything fitness. You should've added that caveat. Seriously though, loving your content. Took a two-year hiatus and logging back into my HC app (lifetime subscription) and getting back into the gym after a series of injuries. Can't wait!
You are absolutely right it's makes so much sense i fucked my knee from Full rom rep range (recommend by dr mike lol) And definitely using band for my hacks thank you Joe you are awesome
Bah!!! This is sooo good! I’m gonna have to watch it a few times as this info can be translated to so many more exercises. I have learned so much from you Jo! Please keep them coming! I am struggling to understand how the top of the hack squat has the most overloading. I understand that the bottom position in the hack has the most joint torque. (Longest moment arm) so doesn’t that mean that’s the hardest position? Why when you’re at the top of the hack does it have the most load? Doesn’t the load stay the same throughout the whole exercise but the moment arm changes? I am clearly new at learning the physics of working out and things in the gym are slowly but surely starting to click as I repeatedly watch your videos on your app and RUclips. Thank you for your help. 😊
Hi, this would also apply for the chestpress that gets heavier at the top right? Because i see a lot of influencers talking bad about the upper pec press by hammer strength because it takes load of the bottom. And I've always thought that due to the angle between the upper arm and the resistance in the stretched position of the pec, it flattens out the curve as it would by the banded hacks as you said. But i still have a question: In the stretched position of the pecs, the uper arm kind of aligns with the muscle fibers and the tendon right? You have a very big angle between the uper arm and the tendon attached to it. Close to or even 180°. In my understanding of physics this would also have a huge effect on where you can manage heavier loads inside the rom. Would love a video about the topic of angles inside the body between bones and tendons and if they have any effects on the strength you can occure in different parts of the rom. Sorry if there are mistakes in my text, I'm from Germany and not an nativ english speaker.
Excellent video. I am curious to know in regards to training the quads through a full resistance profile; when also training leg extensions in the same session, would it in your opinion then make more sense to keep the hack squat unbanded, thus having a quad dominant exercise which favors each the shortened and lengthened position (more extremely than with a band)? Also, I personally don't fail hack squats at the bottom. On the rep I fail, I do so in the top 1/3(maybe it'a the angle of the machine idk). Would the band still make sense? Thanks for a great video.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the argument that bands from the top decelerate you as you descend, whereas bands from the bottom wouldn't. I think that both have the same effect in that regard. What am I missing?
Isn’t it more than just moment arms? It’s also the direction of travel? Like the moment arm could be bigger but if you’re moving lateral to the direction of force then it’s irrelevant
Yes but at the top position you have resistance so resistance is continue all the way the mouvements wich allows constant tension Like dumbell press and cable crossover press
The only other smart video on this is from Kassem. I know you guys have your history and have gotten your egos hurt in the past but as a nerd trainer I wish you guys would work it out. You’re old men now 😅 hopefully you two have more perspective on disagreement now and we could see you two associating from time to time. Think it would be a win for the space.
@@HypertrophyCoach it's just what i see in the gym, people can load more weight since they use heavy assisted bands jaja. Take off the bands and they have to lower the weight lol
Haven’t even watched this yet … but, excited that HC is putting out more content. It’s all $$. Solid gold. Thx man.
People don't understand how smart is Joe. He is gym teacher🤣 I learn every single thing from you,and i made amazing progres in 3 years.
Pay that man.
I will soon ( for your program ) thank you for your education 🙏✨👏
Probably the best concise video on the explanation of banding on RUclips! Thank you.
Crazy how the video was barely out for an hour (mind you it's a half an hour video) and mf's already asking questions that could be explained had they just watched the ENTIRE damn video 🤣
No time to learn. Only time to comment.
@@HypertrophyCoach😂😂😂
Just my perspective: I enjoy some of the learning from guys like Paul and Joe, and I can appreciate that some conversations can be extremely nuanced and that there is an audience for that, but I don’t need a 33minute video on banded hack squats lol. I agree with you - if you’ve got questions you want to ask, be an adult and watch the video first. I just thought I’d provide a perspective from someone (me) who is probably like many people who follow Joe: interested in the science, but to a point. I do respect the amount of time Joe puts into something like this. Valid point that you made! 🙏
One of the best educators in the industry, hands down. keep crushing it Joe!
I am glad you released this video, to be honest this has also been a discussion between Dr Mike Israetel who is in favor of no bands vs Kassem Hanson who if I can summarize the discussion between them was more in favor of reverse banding the hack squat, and Kass has also an in lab experiment he did with the bands that pretty much has the same conclusion as yours which is that it is not only the maximal lengthened position important but adding bands increases the challenge through that last 25% of the movement (bottom to mid range). They both make great points and it was lovely to see your arguments here as well. Thank you for these videos!
Thank you for your great content Joe. It has changed a lot of aspects of my training for the better. As well too, you have a great way of communicating your knowledge and concepts. That's pretty rare. There are people that have the knowledge but it's hard to listen to them trying to relate it. Kelley Starret is someone who has been a knowledge source for me, but I really need to read his content to get what he is trying to put out. Not HC! Not nerdy, just right and not too serious.
Excellent and detailed explanation. I do these from time to time, but now the understanding of the science behind it has become better. I appreciate it!
I am a huge biomechanics nerd. It plays a large role in my personal training and the way I train my clients. I really love this series. Thank you so much!
Love to hear that! Thanks 🙏
Acute orthopedic relief will probably be the biggest plus for myself and my clients. Definitely trying this first for a bit then try with them. Thanks Joe. You thoroughly explain things in a truly unique way of explaining topics that anyone can understand.
Awesome video again.
Love this new setup and the ease you explain things
Thanks buddy
Good video, coach. Definitely clears up the why to the banded hack squat question. However, as a physics nerd myself, I find it necessary to be aware of potential energy as part of an exercise's profile. The hack squat will always have the most potential energy at the top of the rails, banded or reverse banded (unless your reverse bands are stronger than the sled is heavy, which will change the equilibrium point to the middle of the rails rather than the floor). A lateral raise will have more potential energy if gone to super ROM rather than stopping with the arm parallel to the ground simply because it went higher off the ground. Potential energy is why everyone recognizes that a 5'5" deadlifter lifting 800lbs is less impressive than 6'8" deadlifter lifting 800lbs. The weight is the same, the lift is mechanically similar, however what differs is the height from the ground that the weight travels. A 6'8" deadlifter will impart much more force and expend much more energy into the 800lbs through the rep simply because his lock-out position results in the bar being 2ft off the ground. To be more accurate, lifting 800lbs 2ft off the ground requires 2169 joules of energy applied in a vector opposite of gravity, compared to 1084 joules for 1ft off the ground. This has massive implications for how much metabolic stress we can expect an individual to accrue over a workout or how an exercise will affect a person based on their height and lever lengths.
Yea! I have some questions i’ll post soon.
Out of the 3 exercises I play with bands on, Leg Press to me feels most benefitted. Hack squat and incline smith-press are the other two.
Love this channel , so informational
keep posting my king!
All I know is - I started banding my hack squat a few months ago and my knee pain went away
3:58 haillarious 🤣🤣 great video as always!
Great video with great logic. Lots of strong people use bands to flatten the curve on movements and I think this could be really valuable for people training hypertrophy for strength sport etc
Thanks Joe for making a video like this one. Driving me nuts seeing all the people just jump on the lengthened hypertrophy bandwagon thinking that maximum loading in the “stretch” position is all that’s required without considering individualized joint torque for each exercise. I still can’t believe it’s phds espousing this and it feels akin to throwing the baby out w the bath water.
Like that you have 0 band tension at the top. Try that on reverse band deadlifts!! Set up for 0 band assistance at the knee. Training speed to pull faster than the band goes away.
This was great. Really appreciate the time and amount of detail you're putting into these, man! Also think the next video may have accidentally been published for a short time this morning. In for another banger
Other than Joe himself, Show me a science based coach who has actually gotten someone big
another perfectly timed video! doing banded hacks this afternoon 💪 I wish I had tried them years ago, they feel much better and I was able to add 70lbs so far. Got stuck in the bottom without the band. 2nd week of your 90's program and loving it!
👊👊🙏🙏🙏 that’s a great program!
Thanks for sharing 🤜🤛💪
Coach Joe needs to get his ass to my university's physics department, better at teaching mechanics than half the lecturers there lol.
Another fantastic video, seriously thanks a ton.
Extremely interesting video, wish we had more information on different training techniques.
I think the logic is sound. There is definiely an overestimation on short term studies conducted out of context of real life application. I think Joe does a fine job in commnicting the relatioship between "study" evidence and real world experience.
The study to compare the difference would actually be quite simple I think, because you just trained one leg with a band, and one leg without. Measure strength and size before and after, and you should have a pretty good idea of which one is better or worse, or if they end up producing the same results.
Very interesting HC. The flattening of the curve makes sense, and it could potentially increase the area underneath the curve. However, I do question how you have pictorial graphed the resistance profiles. You showed that the banded hack ending at a higher resistance than the non-banded hack. As far as I know the two exercises would end at the same level of resistance since the bands are doing no work at the end of the concentric.
To steelman your argument you did say that clients tend to progress faster so maybe the way you graphed it is with respect to the heavier weights.
Love videos like this. I train squat, bench and deadlifts with bands and chains and love the effect. Don't go crazy with band tension though. LOL Also very good explanation as to the tension curve. Like the original Nautaulis machines. Increasing the load where you are stronger. Thanks for an awesome video
Stretch mediated hypertrophy bros punching air right now
Don't get stretch mediated hypertrophy conflated with overloading the stretch and emphasising the stretch generally, not the same thing
What do u mean by that@@Harry-rr4km
For all the good points Joe makes, if the sole purpose of training was to maximize hypertrophy, its hard to argue against the default resistance profile of the hack squat. The fact that you'll likely fail at the bottom + that you need to use lower weight compared to the banded approach keeps the SFR higher for the default profile.
It you're an athlete looking to supplement your sport with strength training, then the banded variants are in business imho.
Splitting hairs but hey, that's what we're here for.
@@Liftergeist Hey bud, if I'm a basketball athlete, would the banded hack squat be a better exercise choice when it comes to the squat variants? I find my vert significantly destroyed when I do regular ATG high bar back squats. I literally have muted jumps and jumpshots for days after those sessions. Trying to find a way to progress in strength and vert while still actively playing ball.
Humble question and request is your stance still the same here? A gym tour video would be cool if you ever get the chance!
The hack squat serie continues
Video for setting up the bands @ 5:32
Advance training with advance coach 💪👍 great joe
Good video Joe. You’ll have all the parrots in the pet shop squawking “No Bands” … “FULL ROM” after you triggered them with an image of Mike Israetel. I remember John Meadows and Dave Tate say the main reason they band the hack squat is for knee health. If you look at the EliteFTS hack squat, it has pegs at the top and bottom to attach bands. But, what would they know … neither of them had a Phd.
Hey Joe quick question, would you say that there is a better band to use for hacks than another. Like for instance a 20lb resistance band over a 40lb resistance band to flatten the curve out or does that not really matter?
That's the question I have. I tried hack squats with the bands and it was easier on my knees before seeing anyone talk about it. I'm ready to buy my own bands but my question is also about resistance of the bands
M lovin’ your video, pls pay me to learn more more from you, can? 🥰🥰.. my friend used band above knee bcos she tends to overpronate her foot n concurrently her thigh will open much wider n list control of her muscle even with her engagement of her muscle.. that’s why she use band when doing hack SQ.. I would like to learn more fr you.. thanks in advance 🥰
Hey Joe, I know more than you. Will you pay me? The topic is of my choosing, and not related to anything fitness. You should've added that caveat.
Seriously though, loving your content. Took a two-year hiatus and logging back into my HC app (lifetime subscription) and getting back into the gym after a series of injuries. Can't wait!
You are absolutely right it's makes so much sense i fucked my knee from Full rom rep range (recommend by dr mike lol)
And definitely using band for my hacks thank you Joe you are awesome
What about a banded pendulum?
What are all the exercises- you should have a good brace in core and have spinal extension
Bah!!! This is sooo good! I’m gonna have to watch it a few times as this info can be translated to so many more exercises. I have learned so much from you Jo! Please keep them coming!
I am struggling to understand how the top of the hack squat has the most overloading.
I understand that the bottom position in the hack has the most joint torque. (Longest moment arm) so doesn’t that mean that’s the hardest position? Why when you’re at the top of the hack does it have the most load? Doesn’t the load stay the same throughout the whole exercise but the moment arm changes?
I am clearly new at learning the physics of working out and things in the gym are slowly but surely starting to click as I repeatedly watch your videos on your app and RUclips. Thank you for your help. 😊
Love ya papa joe
Where are the bands? I can't even see them attached
33 mins of how to grow tree trunks with or without a band on hack squat
Hi, this would also apply for the chestpress that gets heavier at the top right? Because i see a lot of influencers talking bad about the upper pec press by hammer strength because it takes load of the bottom. And I've always thought that due to the angle between the upper arm and the resistance in the stretched position of the pec, it flattens out the curve as it would by the banded hacks as you said. But i still have a question: In the stretched position of the pecs, the uper arm kind of aligns with the muscle fibers and the tendon right? You have a very big angle between the uper arm and the tendon attached to it. Close to or even 180°. In my understanding of physics this would also have a huge effect on where you can manage heavier loads inside the rom.
Would love a video about the topic of angles inside the body between bones and tendons and if they have any effects on the strength you can occure in different parts of the rom. Sorry if there are mistakes in my text, I'm from Germany and not an nativ english speaker.
Excellent
Excellent video. I am curious to know in regards to training the quads through a full resistance profile; when also training leg extensions in the same session, would it in your opinion then make more sense to keep the hack squat unbanded, thus having a quad dominant exercise which favors each the shortened and lengthened position (more extremely than with a band)?
Also, I personally don't fail hack squats at the bottom. On the rep I fail, I do so in the top 1/3(maybe it'a the angle of the machine idk). Would the band still make sense?
Thanks for a great video.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the argument that bands from the top decelerate you as you descend, whereas bands from the bottom wouldn't.
I think that both have the same effect in that regard.
What am I missing?
Personally, I'd rather keep track of how much sheer load I can handle at the bottom (that sounded gay) from a progressive overload standpoint.
Isn’t it more than just moment arms? It’s also the direction of travel? Like the moment arm could be bigger but if you’re moving lateral to the direction of force then it’s irrelevant
❤for🇮🇳 the coach😊
I am hypertrophy student may hypertrophy coach sponsor me a good hack/belt squat pleaseee
Doesnt the band negate the heavy stretch wich Is the most hypertrophic
yes
32:35 😂😂😂
Maybe you should watch the video.
No
Yes but at the top position you have resistance so resistance is continue all the way the mouvements wich allows constant tension
Like dumbell press and cable crossover press
I just lift weights and try to progress 🤷🏻♂️
Those are good things to do!
Would love to hear Milo’s opinion
The only other smart video on this is from Kassem. I know you guys have your history and have gotten your egos hurt in the past but as a nerd trainer I wish you guys would work it out. You’re old men now 😅 hopefully you two have more perspective on disagreement now and we could see you two associating from time to time. Think it would be a win for the space.
Joe you are best ❤
nobody ever built big legs using bands.
I’ve built literally hundreds of peoples legs using bands. Including dozens of pros.
6
havent watched but i will answer, why band on hack squat? to load more weight and feed your ego 🤡
Comment before watching. Good for you 👊
@@HypertrophyCoach it's just what i see in the gym, people can load more weight since they use heavy assisted bands jaja. Take off the bands and they have to lower the weight lol
Unc was pulling back ZERO punches in the vid 🫡😭😭💯