MODERN METAL sounds GENERIC! (and how to fix it)
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Make sure your mixes don't sound generic!
German producer Kristian Kohle (Aborted, Powerwolf, Hämatom, Van Canto, Eskimo Callboy, Sinister) tries to explain the typical mistakes that make many of today's mixes sound sterile and boring.
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I feel like there's one more reason everything sounds generic though: Everybody's watching the same tutorial videos and instead of getting inspiration and a concept of how the process works from the videos, they're treating them like step by step instructions. Applies both to the music lessons end, AND the production how-to end. Related to that is also the way there ends up being one industry standard for each type of product or application of a product. Nobody uses their ears, they just use popularity to make their decisions.
So true !
Everyone just wants a step by step tutorial how do mix explained instruction, and it's boring as fuck.
I saw some people asking in the comments of a video : "Which I/O to use to connect a preamp into a compressor" when the video literally showed that.
Because they all want to get what they want right here, right now, instead of experimenting, searching etc.
True, I can't tell how many times I've seen "cut here in the EQ and do this on the comp for a punchy kick. Then, everyone does that, it works and everyone has the same mix
@@pedrosilvaproductions Yeah, or even worse: The cute little trick doesn't work in that particular mix and just really fucks it up.
There are some near-universal truths to mixing, like for example running a high-pass on guitar tracks to clear up the low-end; but there's no absolute answer to exactly where you should place that cutoff. Are you using a 6-string? Or 7? Detuned? Amp and mic or amp sim? And what about the rest of the mix, how is everything divided across the spectrum? Are there a lot of instruments in the same frequency range that are fighting each other? And those are just a few of the things to consider for that one simple trick. One size definitely does not fit all.
I've been mixing for ages and I'm still nowhere near a professional level. And IMO the most difficult thing is not to learn using different editing tools and effects, but rather *when* and *why* you should use them.
@@tommyb9711 one cool thing i like is to use reference mixes, like "i likee the snare on this track" and try to mimick it or see videos to see how it was mixed. Its so helpful to learn like that honestly
@@tommyb9711
"...the most difficult thing is not to learn using different editing tools and effects, but rather when and why you should use them."
I wholeheartedly agree. I've seen several people on RUclips, including several relatively well-known mixing engineers in the metal scene, fell prey to this mistake. One instance I remember clearly was when a mixing engineer carve out all resonance frequencies on rhythm guitar tracks just because. To me, the guitar tones were fine and the resonance frequencies weren't overbearing nor offensive. I didn't think it would need aggressive EQ moves, but the mixing engineer decided to do it anyway. His reasoning was it must be EQ'd because resonance frequencies masked the actual guitar tone and proceeded to demonstrate it by hunting the whistle-like offensive frequencies and EQ'd the shit out of them with moderate-gain, narrow bandwidth cuts... in isolation. The result was this thin, generic guitar tone. I was like, "What are those unnecessary EQ'ing for? What if the resonance frequencies ALSO contributed to the actual guitar tone?"
I think the internet and social media has created monoculture. Funny, in an age where science and technology have enabled us to manufacture increasingly specific and different types of equipment, everyone ends up sounding the same.
I've said this for more years than I can remember. Modern productions sound too perfect, too polished, and the end result just feels sterile, boring and grating too my ears. I personally think the late 80s and early- to mid 90s was a good era for polished but still vibrant and slightly raw sounding metal productions. Metal shouldn't be about absolute perfection in every way... at least not if you ask me.
You could say that about all kinds of music
@@levinzechner8274 Even if you could, it doesn't make it less true for metal.
@@matsnilson7727 I think they're just saying it's not unique to metal
@@treshaunrogers Yes, I get that, I just don't understand why that should matter. If the statement applies to metal, then it applies to metal. How fans of other music view the productions within those genres isn't really something that concerns me. I'm simply voicing my opinion about how metal productions have changed for the worse. In my opinion, of course.
As Glenn himself said recently, perfect mixes are boring. Like, take a listen to the latest Kamelot albums. It's so perfectly balanced, mixed to perfection. Whatever one's opinion of the band may be, their mixes are close to flawless.
...and the mix lacks any kind of punch or signature. It's just... there. Sterile, hollow, boring.
In the past, rock and metal bands were recognized after 5 sec because they had a unique style.
These modern metal bands with their high gain gebolze as we say in german can hardly be distinguished from each other
*Vildhjarta joined the chat*
They make it sound so pop culture rock but the kind of pop culture rock where it sounds shittier then it could be. I think it’s mostly because a lot of these artists don’t actually know how to make music now to. They feed off and follow what would get noticed the most these days because people such as the younger generation like generic stuff.
well in the past metal sounded like shit ^^
@@SchmiddiMusic-qu7cp Yes, in the past shitty bands sounded like shit, and to be honest, most of the bands in existence are/were quite shitty. Now shitty bands sound mediocre, but they are still shitty bands. The problem is, good bands sound mediocre too, because the reasons discussed in this video.
Yeah, the style got lost. It all sounds the same. But that's not only with metal, but with Hiphop, Pop and other genres. I mean, there is lot do be discovered but you really need to dig to find some unique sounds.
One thing I like to do for finding unique sounds is to throw one really crappy piece of gear into the mix, like a webcam mic or putting an amp in a filing cabinet, or clipping the ever loving daylights out of an ambient mic and then using it for flavor strategically. Putting a contact mic in a weird place.
Or, just to figure out how to use things for purposes they weren't originally intended for.
This is a pretty interesting way to work. When I record something I always try to think what is the best way to add dirt and what kind of dirt fits better the protect.
Yeah, polished and clean recordings are great but you listen to the best old metal/punk/rock/industrial/whatever bands and most of times there are a lot of things happening in the background to add texture and character
This is how me and my drummer work.
See that pedal? it's weird, let's try it.
Pople say this thhing is bad, so let's try it out. etc.
Very true! So many guitar players now try to copy each other with the same 7 string chuggy guitar sounds in metal. When I started playing I always tried to make up my own riffs in my head and just use my influences for practical and learning the basics.
You are nailing this Kristian! We need to break this cycle of generic Metal. Everyone uses the same Drum Samples, same Amp Sims, same everything and their music all sounds...the same jaja
What killed it was the 2007 emo vocal fusion
I watched it die, and it was all within the time of Lamb of God's Sacrament
@@justinwells1043 That was probably the start of riffs being less about the hook and more about the awkward rhythms that became tech metal.
Half the problem is bands though. They want that generic sound. Gridded and sampled drums etc etc. it’s frustrating to say the least. Fix it in the mix, edit everything to the grid, replace every real sound. I spend a full day at a time with a band tracking drums on a very nice sounding kit in a very nice sounding room with the very best drum mics money can buy recorded through a very very nice analog console only for it to be sent off and mixed by an engineer who grids it and sample replaces it for no apparent reason 🙄
@@sheppymcshep that's why I love what Kristian does! He has real world experience, a great Producer doing RUclips! I learn so much from this channel!
You know what is ever worse to my "old" ears is when I see artists that remove the "originals" and replace by "remastered" versions, that way they kill my reference.
"Start cooking your own shit". I think that's very well said.
Autotune and quantization have become the foundation for all types of music. People have become less forgiving about "mistakes". There's little room to breathe anymore.
You have retro effects like vinyl warp that try to capture old school but just sound like overused cheap effects. I picked up some back catalogue 70s, 80s albums and they do sound refreshing compared to modern productions.
Also, music is consumed more often via headphones on a smartphone rather than the acoustic pump of a speaker. This has changed how albums are mixed and introduced a ton of compression and clipping issues.
Totally agree. Check out Slipknot's 1st album where Joey did a bunch of very cool tempo hikes when going into a new part. It makes the songs so much more exciting and like on the verge of going off a cliff at any moment.
I would love to hear a “modern metal” band record on 2 inch tape with no computers, no grid to align everything to, no drum samples (or any other samples), no IR’s and no amp sims, no auto tune etc. And to top it all off, try to record it live in the studio together like a lot of bands used to do. One of two things will happen. It’ll either expose them and sound like garbage, or it will expose them and sound even better! That’s just one old guys take on it.
I think TesseracT qualify for "modern metal", and they did something like this, check out their live-in-studio videos.
@@rimantasbudriunas4411 Cool! I’ll check them out!
And work with ross robinson because he has really raw production
The latest Tool record was tracked to 2”. So was Avatar’s last record.
Many modern metal musicians are actually pretty decent on playing without having everything aligned, especially prog drummers. The IR's and amp sims I agree, but I think that's mostly on the progressive/djent genre more than the rest of the metal scene
I have a number 5: listen to something besides metal.
The all-time metal greats were informed and deeply influenced by other things happening in music. Black Sabbath with blues, Metallica with punk, Iron Maiden with...opera?
Point is, the biggest reason why these bands sounded different and original is that they weren't trying to do what had already been done in metal. They were letting the artistic Muse speak through them based on what music made them feel. And to do that you have to tap into the source of what is interesting that's happening in music, whether it is in metal or outside of it. And they weren't afraid to break or invent new rules for this type of music.
So damn true! I know in my own writing my biggest influence is Hayley Williams' solo projects (specifically 'Petals for Armor'), there's just something about her song writing that really speaks to me and her hook writing is so damn good! of course i still have the usual suspects for modern metal (Lamb of God, Northlane, Architects) but listening to more than just one genre is so damn important, it broadens your music horizons and allows new ideas to flourish!
@Ken Severo It is simply a fact that black people have been on the forefront, the vanguard of what is interesting new and exciting happening in popular culture and music. We wouldn't even have metal at all were it not for rock n' roll and people like Chuck Berry. It is telling that the last time something truly new happened in metal (nu metal) it was from the importation of black hip hop into what had largely become a white dominated music form. I think that metal has again become stale and "too white" (that is, cut off from the musical zeitgeist in all its cultural diversity).
Logically speaking then, the next big thing in metal then should be Trap Metal. No Joke
@@christopherjensenmusic4131 I loved Paramore's Riot, it has so much energy and attitude. Will have to check out Hayley's solo material.
You guys, you guys, hehehe... There's so much going on, you have no idea. Especially in the fusion scene. But for metal I'm biased. 90% of the _metal_ I listen to is pre-2012. Not because I don't appreciate the new stuff. But because I'm still inspired by that stuff. It's still going strong, and there's so much of it. "Old" music still makes me think >20 years ago, at least. So I wouldn't necessarily call the metal I listen to old. But if we're talking about the late 90s stuff, what separates that from today, briefly, is complexity. With the number of people who have access to instruments today, there's of course an element of skill in that. But it's primarily that there's so much music, and people are striving to find their niche. Cold and robotic music is a natural consequence of that.
Music is technically very simple. There is a set of harmonies that makes your ear feel good and a pulse that makes you engaged, and you can practically write the set of all those down on a piece of paper with decreasing order of priority. Those are the technical end goal for all musicians. Metal has sidestepped and twisted these rules a bit, mainly because of noise like distortion and cymbals, which grertly muddles the perception of harmony. But the rules still apply. 50 years ago you didn't have to go very far to provoke a crowd with your guitar. A few power chords was generally good enough. People already thought that was outrageous. You could still technically play powers chords over a straight groove and get popular, but then it's not your music people are interested in; it's you. Since contemporary metal is a stern group, they're typically (but not always) disinterested in fame for the sake of attention, and play primarily for the pleasure and duty. This actually imposes a few dilemmas on the genre. If you wanna keep doing it for a living, you're gonna have to sell your music. And in order to sell your music you gotta stand out. So things like the loudness war became a big things. Eventually, people started making things so far away from historically accurate models of music that the only way the still sell it was so present it in a form to clean that it became clinical.
True story. I mostly listen to folk and punk, but play more doom. I'm much more imspired to write when not listening to metal
I think the big issue with modern metal is that the people programming everything aren’t intimate with all the nuances and subtleties of drum and bass. So when they go to program it there’s no accents or ghost notes it’s just 127 velocity and slamming compressors. It makes my ears hurt after only like 2 songs. Just back off everything like 20% and it’ll be good to me.
Yes. That makes it even worse
On top of this, some of the videos showing how to 'humanize' the drums use a range between, I don't know, 115 to 127, which all still sounds brutal! I mean, I'm pretty sure the 95 or 100 value samples on a "drumkit from hell" VST are not meant to be used for Ballads. So even if you go it of your way to look for for advice, the advice almost confirms that humans should sound like a robot.
From my point of view, if you need programmed drums, getting VST drums not taylored for metal, using a lot of dynamics (with some kind of criteria, not just random) and taking the time to mix it yourself makes a huge difference. Viele grüße.
Tempo changes are a good tool to keep interest in a song. It forces the listener's brain to "readjust" to what it's hearing. ¡Nice video!
I've already been practicing much of this advice about finding my own tones and doing my own thing to avoid generic "modern metal."
Now my talent just needs to catch up with my aspirations hahahaha
Eventually it does, you have to put into work so your ideas correspond to your skill. Usually we over simply the idea because we don't have the skills to reach the expectation. Eventually, your skill reaches that point
I have my flame suit on! Now I wanna hear your opinion!
This is why I love High On Fire so much. Matt Pike's tone is so beautifully disgusting, especially with that new solo single that dropped recently
Matt Pike is the king. High on Fire rules! :D
Thanks! I love sleep gonna check out High on Fire!
If you like their past 3 albums, definitely check out more of what Kurt Ballou has engineered if you haven't already.
So many true words.
I remember, when I recorded my first Black Metal projects 20 years ago, I used the mic of my headset. Minimalistic I would call it 😂. When I played in a band it was as you described it: we had a band room sat together, done some chatting and brainstorming, someone started to play randomly and we stept in. God I miss these old days.
The main issue in yesterday versus today is demo'ing. Bands need to rehearse a song then Demo it (No one hears the demos except the band and maybe a potential producer) and let it sit for a while then after everyone has had time to listen to it and bring their personality to it then you work on recording the final product. Demo'ing use to be the most important part of any production. It's where good ideas live and bad ideas die. It also gives the members of a group time to see what they want to bring to the table, some musicians are quick on their feet like a good public speaker and others like take their time and write down what they are going to say. But most of the time I notice the bands that demo their music and have a grasp on what the song is tend to rely less on post production and more on their own talent to get the job done.
Thanks Kristian, finally someone took the time to elaborate a video like this without sliding into the two extreme positions that you showed in the beginning. I wish more music related content creators made videos like this where everything is analyzed with some pragmatism.
Even 25 years later, everyone just wants the Andy Sneap production sound. What a legend!
Ironically, several of his recent productions also fell prey to this generic MoDeRn MeTaL sound. The most obvious is the thin, overly tight, mid-heavy rhythm guitar sound.
You’re so spot-on regarding the creation process and click track points. When I was writing songs on my guitar 20 years ago it was in my bedroom without a metronome. I just went with what felt right. It resulted in some very unique tempo and rhythm changes. It then gave the drummer a unique challenge at times, and if it didn’t work with drums, change the riff, which then resulted in a more creative riff.
Overall so much more organic, with songs created that ‘felt’ good, with emotion instead of being clinical. These new tools have their place, but need to be used sparingly and at the right time
Fucking finally someone else is saying it. I literally cannot stand modern metal mixes and my friends have said similar things. I dread producing another djenty sounding band that wants to sound exactly like every other djenty sounding band with the same exact hyper compressed, overly bright sound. It’s gotten so bad I’ve moved over to big band and jazz just to relax because metal is boring me too death
Ever tried djancing to djent?
Beware of djazz :)
Thank You for "Presets"
I had that conversation with my students so many times: "Everyone else on the planet is getting the same Google search results as you. Get a good amp and CREATE a tone."
The algorithm is what's driving the generic sounds. The "Olden days" were just some skids in a basement mucking around with whatever they had to hand and making it work (you know like that Dutch kid did with the Variac voltage adapter into the Marshalls and his butchered Strat made with salvaged parts and bicycle paint).
Now with digital modelling, all things are at all times, theirs. This creates "paralysis by analysis". So they lean on forums and searches to decipher the noise and now everyone is using the same sounds. Like Devon Townsend said: "I'm not a fan of options." Get off the Andy Sneap forums and think for yourself.
I've recorded albums both ways. I love my presets, I've used a lot of them sitting in front of a DAW writing to a click. I've also rehearsed 5 nights a week with the band and taken songs live off the floor before heading into a studio where we mic'd up tube amps and didn't use a click.
Both have their advantages and draw-backs.
Most of the difference in my experience has been financial: Old school costs a fortune, and it doesn't necessarily sound "better", just more "human".
The modern system sets "machine perfect" as a standard, and it is, IMHO, and unrealistic goal. I know edited to the grid sounds super tight, but that's just a recipe for frustration, unless you're comfortable with quantising everything. Be conscious of what you're trying to say with your music. Super tight and technical only says: "Look what I can do!", which is unlikely to impress anyone who's not in a band (you know, 90% of the people listening).
It was unsurprising that Rings of Saturn recorded at 50% speed. I can't imagine how many takes that material would require at tempo. And when they play live... Who cares? It's a show, not a recital examination for a judging panel. If they play off the click it doesn't matter (even if you use a click live to sequence, you can fall off and "catch up" to the click later. It's not handcuffs and hobbles).
tl;dr- Don't use presets, like he said. ^^
Great comment! Thank you!
I like drum samples that are not mixed. Then it still allows me to have creative control with compression, eq, reverb, saturation, etc.
Great video on this subject. This makes me feel more confident in my band's decision to mic up some guitar cabs this time around while we're recording.
Use cabinets with different speakers if possible.
@@vorpalblades We are actually. Three different cabinets all with different speaker types and going to do some kind of blending.
This is so true! Lately I've seen so many people using this Gojira Neural DSP thing. It sounds good but everytime also like the thing you heard before sonicwise. For my stuff I'm always referencing various songs that were inspiring me. Maybe it's an advantage not using ITunes or Spotify at all. For one song I'm referencing Vomitoy right now and that is not genereic I think (hope).
I really love the third reason (or lets say hint). I don't have the time and opportunity to work with a drummer right now, but recording the natural feeling of a riff to get some fitting tempo changes afterwards is a great and inspiring approach. Thanks a lot for this!!!
lol everyone went from Recto/5150s to plugins of them. I bet they use similar settings too.
It’s the same with guitar gear. In the 80’s I had a couple of guitars loaded with EMG85’s and a JCM800. I made it work because I had too. No money!
I changed cabs for different flavours and we never ever used a click.
I’ve gone the whole route of clicks and the grid etc etc and gone back to the organic approach. I’m now pushed to come up with different shit with a simple setup. I also listen to a lot of different music. Soul, funk and alt country for inspiration and ideas.
Good video and some great advice 👍👍
To me, the biggest problem with modern metal sounding generic comes from the arrangement and composition. It's much more common to hear songs that stick to a narrow range of bass notes, don't modulate keys, use samples for drums and push melodic elements into 1 or 2 octaves. I think this is because it's way easier to get a huge and fat sounding mixdown when everything is so constrained. Older metal moved the tonal centre of the song around more, and that means your bass and melodies are going into wildly different frequency spectrums, and the drums can't be tuned the same way. You will just fundamentally have to mix it differently, and there will be different compromises you make.
Modern metal is mixed a lot like modern EDM. This can make for a really impressive and impactful mix, but in my opinion encourages a very specific style of songwriting.
I think one of the main issues with the “rehearsal room” is that it’s difficult to afford a practice space. Rent is sky high and if you live in a major city it’s almost out of the question to own a house. It’s easier to plug into an audio interface and share demos. The irony of it is pursuing music these days doesn’t make money the way it once did making it harder pay for a practice space and and studio time.
I think 90s metal sounded best quality wise. Those bands probably recorded in multimillion dollar studios. I also still buy and use CDs because the sound quality is way better.
I like to buy CDs from the artist directly. Gives them a few bucks more and I have a physical medium that plays in my car.
Yeah I started buying CDs of older 90s and early 2000s albums to use as references and be able to drop the file right into my DAW rather than use spotify. Also have the benefit of being able to solo out frequencies on the references if I want
CDs are the best
The early 2000s were the beginning of the end. HOLY SHIT. Was every damn audio engineer on something? St. Anger sounds like shit. The System Has Failed sounds like shit. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence sounds like shit. God Hates Us All sounds like SHIT. They all sound garbage! Somehow they took all the worst parts of digital tones and mixed them with the worst parts of analog tones, and then compressed the shit out of it between slappy drums and woofy bass. That's all I hear when I listen to metal from the early 2000s.
@@sleepdeep305 well the stuff from the early 2000s i use as reference isn’t exactly metal. Norma Jean’s debut (which was supposedly done entirely without computers), 30 Seconds To Mars’ debut, and Rye Coalition’s On Top
my beef with modern metal is in the songs.... old metal seemed to have songs that were more memorable, and had more lyrical content... stuff today is still good, but harder to find songs that are written well around an idea.. like metallica with "fade to black," or "creeping death" etc... Pantera with "i'm broken/cowboys from hell/cemetary gates."
In my heart i agree with your sentiment but my head is forcing me to play devils advocate. So heres my take: old metal (however awesome) can be pretty cheesy, i love metallica and sabbath but theres no denying the cheese. I dont listen to alot of modern metal but some of my favs are just that. Namely meshuggah, and periphery. Also AWK's new album "God is Partying" is GOOD. like wether were lookin at the lyrics to Light by periphery, or the rhythms all over Koloss by meshuggah there is some good shit. Innovative and meaningful.
@@markop.1994 I hear you… what I ask myself is- why don’t I feel anything from newer metal?? It’s heavier, more “in your face,” guitar tones might be “better” (totally subjective) and production is huge.. however I still don’t find the songs “digging into my bones.” I get the “cheesy” factor of old stuff… but I think in a way it feels more “human” because of that.. less over-thinking or pretentious… once again, totally subjective
@@stereointellect well i do like cheese, and i know all the words to more of metallicas tunes than id like to admit. But seriously check out everybody sins by Andrew WK great lyrical metal. The whole album its on is a banger. For 90% im inclined to agree with you tho, there is much less feeling for the most part and alot more mediocrity.
@@markop.1994 my overall perspective though, is not just lyrics… it’s the gut feeling, of honesty, without overthinking… I never dug Andrew WK (to prove a point). It’s not just lyrics, it has to feel holistic, I know that’s an overused word.. where the lyrical content, riffs, and feeling that’s being pushed foreword, that makes it feel timeless… I keep wondering if I’m not “young and impressionable” anymore, or if there is really a lacking somewhere in the material/playing etc of new metal. For me it’s really late 90’s and forward..
@@stereointellect no im on board with you. I do think as we get older its tougher to appreciate new things, but theres also an aspect of anybody can put their crap out there now and alot of it is crap. Andrew wk is well worth the look (like i assure you 100 years from now people will still be listening to him) but its only his latest album that falls under metal.
Thanks for this, Kristian. I am not a metal player but I noticed this with my own stuff too - it tends to sound boring with all the presets and grids, as cool and convenient that all is. That's why I use the acoustic guitar much more and experiment with some hand percussion on the instrument instead of drums. No click. And if I do some digital drums, I play them manually. It's harder to do than to just load up a rhythm in EZDrummer, but it feels better. What I found works sound wise is to not look at what you are using but to listen. Maybe a Marshall preamp through a Fender Blues Junior sounds great.
100% man. One thing I have to keep in mind is as an engineer or a producer is it’s my job to make the artist perform their best to sound like them. I may think a certain sound might work better and get the band to try it but ultimately it’s their decision. I think a nice example is how Skid Row’s Subhuman Race doesn’t sound at all like the Black Album and both were produced by Bob Rock.
True it doesn't sound like the Black Album
But like Load haha
I’m glad you made a point to not hate on the tools that are available. I feel like the real issue that people usually have with IRs, pitch correction, etc. are that people are using them as a crutch or using them in the same way. Too many people think you either have to use a million corrections or even worse, that you can fix a shit performance with the click of a button. I love all the tools that are available, and I think they can be helpful in the demo/writing/scratch phase.
Indeed! Don’t blame the tools.
I guess I'm just putting what you said into my own words. The key thing is creative vision. I have an industrial-ish project whose recordings I edit to hell and back to sound almost robotic because that's the aesthetic we're going for (and that's something I can do now, versus 30 years ago). And then I also produced some local hardcore and punk bands where I'm not going anywhere near that quantization button. It's about doing things with intention to express an emotion rather than doing something because "we always did it that way" or because Misha Mansoor showed it in a RUclips tutorial.
I fully agree!
Number 5 is because YOU TOLD US HOW TO DO IT CORRECTLY. Great ideas for shaping your tone. Nice looking control/mixing room. The studio remodel is look great .
It's so true ...in the 80s 90s and early 2000s you could often literally spot a band by thier guitar tone especially and then overall production in some cases. Today everything sounds flat, 1 dimension and utterly generic. A fat brutal tone seems to be defined by lower tuning that was eq'd well to find its place in a mix you you could simply hear it punch through, n not about how individually unique it sounds compared to anyone else. Thanks to Sims n IRs the art of capturing a tone feels lost and it's caused me to largly lose interest in hunting for that new band that just ticks ALL the boxes of new fresh talent and a unique production sound overall and not just ticking the typical box today of .. made a recording .... in the box !
My engineer friend who recorded my band didn't put us to a click. The tempo and pulse drifted like it does. Afterwards he went section by section and found the closest bpm. Like you said chorus was faster break down was slower etc and time aligned those sections individually so the track kept that natural feel and was tighter. Loved the result
I think what makes music interesting is at least partly what you consume and process.
What I'm trying to say is that if your songs fail to paint an interesting overall picture, there's no reason for it to be listened to.
It should say something about who you are and what you believe, and if you have none of those things, your art will not say anything to anyone.
I think people get caught up in the gear and forget that they're not interesting as people.
Song writing is the BIG one here.
Great video as always man great staff. I wish some day my band will have the opportunity to visit your studio and record with you.
Some good thoughts thanks for the video....i really miss being back in the loud rehearsal room, and i feel like a lotta of good sh#t comes out of that scenario, cant wait to get back into the live space and just feel it out!
The issue is that 25 years ago bands were getting a £20k advance to spend a fortnight in a studio with a skilled producer, where all sorts of uncontrolable environmental variables affected the end result in surprising ways. If it sounded good, it was good. If it sounded like ass, you scratched your head, changed something using educated guesswork and tried again. If you were in a small band with no budget this was even more the case, just in a tighter time frame with fewer mics and channels to play with! Today, 90% of metal bands are plugging straight into a laptop, using the same amp sims, the same IRs, obsessively correcting things in post to eliminate the same certain frequencies that 2 hours a day discussing tone shaping on the Internet have taught them they should get rid of... every element of the recording and production process is micro-managed and manipulated down to the most minute detail according to a universal set of regimented expectations as to what the end result should sound like. Too much control, too little imagination.
Same sims and same IR's......is like going to a studio 20 years ago and the last 5 bands the studio recorded they all used the same Amp+Cabinet the studio had to offer......sounded different from eachother, same amp, same cab.......but yeah, when someone has the ability to have fun tweaking and trying all kind of new digital plugs etc for as many hours as they want, there will be a lot of over tweaking.....dicipline and imagination is a key factor to not overdo......putting a time limit just like a regular studio would....IMO of course
I think the most influential part is the song itself. One can sound like gold, but if the song doesn't capture your attention, you're doomed.
@@gomezyafal 100%
I refer to this as “option paralysis”: musicians have so many plugins and options to tweak today that they waste tons of time twiddling knobs when that time could be better spent actually being creative writing and actually playing.
@@cerebralcoma4850 Record labels don´t want to spend a cent in new artist, they just want a finished product with no investement from their part, musicans have to cost everything from scratch, and guess what?... there is not enoguh money for a big studio and a producer, you have to do everything on your own, and of course digital will always be cheaper, I would love to have the luxury of an engineer giving advises, but we play with what we have, I agree on not using too much digital and perfecting everything, but in the end, digital always prevail, because of money ussually...
Great video! I'd like to see a video making mix comparisons to point out why it is generic sounding then compare it to something that doesn't sound generic I guess. Great points tho! I just want to hear comparisons so I can hear why it is generic. But that's just me.
I think the use of some very common plugins is definitely part of it. Mic'ing cabs and drums are a pain in the butt. Rack processors are expensive and big. It is dangerously easy to just do everything with VSTs. And some VSTs just work better than others. The tones end up sounding similar.
Regarding tempo and time, being able to write a song that has shifts in bpms and time signatures is tricky. Its faster to keep it simple, which is what a lot of people will do. Being able to write those things into a song properly is what separates the adults from the children. That simplicity makes music feel less creative, and more "template" sounding.
One other one I will throw out there is that this digital world allows one person to write everything. That means every song on an album lacks input from the rest of the band. They just show up and track. That takes some of the creative wizardry out of music. Each cook isn't adding their spice to the recipe.
The biggest issue is that they use the presets. You can use guitar rig and superior drummer and do awesome stuff, just don't use the presets, create your own tones and drum beats. A good chef doesn't use different ingredients, he just uses them to their full potential
5150 into a Mesa cab with V30, Darkglass, Kick 10
I was waiting for someone to say this! Spot on man!
Haha! Exactly. Good but boring
Why don't you just do what Glenn does and play all sides LOL After 10 years of Drum Samples $uck now he sells Drum Samples and they are GREAT! Kristian you have integrity!
Btw. Glenn says use drum samples lightly in mix with the real sound. Because he learnd something about sounds he liked.
@@rockdahaus like every professional mixer does LOL so he figured out how everyone else does it. By the way what mixes? Can you send me to some of his material he mixed that's ever been released? Funny guy, professional RUclipsr but not an actual mixer LOL
@@darlenesheffield9835 jaja very true
@@darlenesheffield9835 said the totally unknown person on the internet... 😜
@@rockdahaus dont think she's claiming to be a mixer jaja
The music im working on right now it took like a week just to map out the clicks. We went through part by part and if the next verse sounded like it needed to be slightly faster we did it. We arebgetting great results. Awesome vid man
Das ist wirklich eine exzellente Gegenüberstellung von technischem Fortschritt und den Resultaten, die dieser Fortschritt mit sich bringt, Kristian! "Perfektion" ist letztlich der Feind von "gut". Ich finde es gut, dass du (trotz des etwas click-baity Videotitels) sehr objektiv und differenziert an dieses Thema rangehst! So wie du, bin auch ich etwas zwiegespalten.
Es ist aber auf jeden Fall sehr auffällig, wenn man sich die Kick-ass Metal Playlist von Spotify durchhört. Beim Großteil der Songs könnte man meinen, dass sie alle von der selben Band sind. Null Wiedererkennungswert! Größtenteils sehr hochglanzpolierte Produktionen, die etwas das Raue vermissen lassen, was Metal Musik eigentlich ausmachen sollte.
Auf der anderen Seite muss man aber auch neidlos anerkennen, dass die Songs extrem gut produziert sind und einfach fett klingen.
Danke!
Genau die Playlist mein ich 🥱
Pretty sure every single metal album is recorded using a Tube Screamer into a 5150 head...
Thank you for a very interesting video.
Probably one of the best I've seen on RUclips in a long time 👍
By the way, do you play drums left handed? 🙂
Thank you for the video and the ideas! I'm definitely gonna try mapping my band's practice space tempo. And I absolutely agree about the presets, I always liked dialing my own sound better. Taking a preset as a reference might be a good start, but that shouldn't be the end of it.
To individuality and beyond! *wooosh*
the songwriting part is a great advice , with my band we never got song made faster than when we recorded and analysed the song when we felt it was done .
My friend, singer from Dymytry told me, you are my German brother in sound. Since I watch your videos, especially this, I understand why ho told me that 😊
You inspire me! Thans!
Awesome video, Kohle. Tweaking the tools you already own from scratch to find your own sound is a great mindset that more people should catch on to. A little more effort goes a long way.
hello.
I'm sure Cubase has this too and you know how to do it, but my DAW's of choice (Digital Performer and Logic) allow you to adjust the grid to beats. So Ive had drummers that didn't want to play to a click, but wanted everything to sound a little tighter than they were capable of and I'd just line up the downbeats of every bar (or every 4 bars maybe if their time is pretty good) with whatever drum they're hitting on beat one of that bar. Then you can have a conductor map with tempos that are fluctuating a few bpm constantly, but you can quantize drums to the "floating grid" and lock the guitars with the drum performance because you're looking at a grid that looks just like any other would, but that grid is locked to a fluctuating tempo. The few times I've done it, it's come out sounding good and not particularly noticeable. Again, assuming the drummer has a good sense of internal time.
Oh yeah!
I have been doing the same thing in Cubase. That’s actually another way how to marry a natural timing with the ability to edit it.
I know this is metal and its sort of different but lets be honest, you have genres built on using the same drums, the 808, you have amazing pop and dance hits that sound exactly the same as all the other shit out there... IMO it's the songwriting, a lot of current metal is either riff salad, has no dynamics or simply does not have like a memorable hook, something that gets the song stuck in your head for days, something that you can just stop playing and the whole audience will scream the lyrics or sing the melody because it's impossible for them not to have memorised it after one or two listens.
I'm as guilty of bad songwriting as anyone else but I truly believe that everything else is irrelevant if you do not have good songs
I totally agree with you. It's the song, to the point that, say, Beatles songs, can be heard in a crappy speaker and move you anyway. In fact, the "crappy speaker" thing is a great tester to a song !
@@gomezyafal to that point, while going a bit against what I said, have you noticed that in modern metal productions when you turn the volume way down you basically only hear drums?
Hard agree song writing is the number one even a great riff in a bad context will sound like a shitty riff and an okay riff in a great context will sound like an amazing riff
The common stuff I find in bad metal:
The singer either sounds like the Cookie Monster or can't sing.
The drummer is R2D2 or just wants to play fast and without a groove.
The guitarists wants to stuff a dozen different riffs in one song in a tuning that shuts out the bass player.
@@orlock20 as a bass player I do feel the lack of proper bass lines in metal, however, I don’t really think it’s just the tuning. You have had a lot of music written with “conflicting” instruments like synths and bass, or piano or horns on the low frequencies. The thing comes down to songwriting also because, if you have the guitars so low, the bass cannot just be the root more of the guitar, it has to move around a bit with the chords and lock in with the drums for that 808 like effect of drums having a note associated.
I starting to think I should go back to watch songwriting videos
Before watching this, I don't think metal before or after sounds objectively better or worse, I think that's just stylistic. But I think the rise of modeling amps and amp sims is a real impact on uniqueness at least with guitar tones. If you can get exactly what you want with minimal effort, you aren't really going to pick up new and innovative sounds on the journey of trying to get there.
I'm not saying any of this is bad, but I think it highlights the importance of mashing together a diverse range of influences.
Funnily enough, it kinda pays to be that hipster that scrounges through vintage vinyls to discover music from the pop golden age of some country you've never heard of, sometimes it ends up being interesting enough to draw influence from.
Just wondering the Cranborne Audio!!!!!
How do you used your Cranborne Audio and its routing and how do you like it?
Thanks, I needed to hear this right now! And much respect for the Life Of Agony reference.
Really enjoyed your thoughts & perspective on this!!!
Speaking of original IRs, Why is nobody creating IRs like small Peavey, Fender and Yamaha practice amps, like the bandit, rage, budokens etc. I'd be massively interested to hear them
I agree but more for the bigger cones.Check out Ugritones swedish DM IR pack.Only blue marvel IR's i could find.
I used to use amp sims a lot...now, when i realized that I was sounding like others....just grabbed the 57, pointed to my fender champ cone and started to record my own amp
It’s very easy to make impulse responses! There are even plugins now that walk you through the steps, whether it’s for a room sound or a piece of gear you want a snapshot of
@@marsrivers yeah dude I got a 57 for the same reason, I have an American made 5150 with 90s made celestion g12T-75s (greenbacks on steroids that were put in the Marshall 1960a cabs they sold with the JCM800 heads that defined the metal sound of a generation) and am so much happier than that rig and my own recordings (they sound way way way better than even the best tones I can make with neural DSP plugins)
@@norwardradtke1361 totally my friend!!!! Keep it up. No amp sim can beat my tubr screamer on the fender champ.
You got some great points here Kristian! We have so many available choices so we should try to get some different tones and sounds
im glad you said the tempo thing, we wrote a new song but trying to track the guitar the bpm dropped 10 in the verse. Took a bit to figure it out but im glad to see its normal.
Thank you, exactly what I am doing, I was a bit lost but now I can say I am going in the right direction! Great advice .
Please show us more from the studio! Is awesome! 🤘
Great video, lots of good points here. I think it has to do with metal itself as a genre, how it evolved over the years. It has always been very maximalist, musicians being praised for how tight, on point and consistent they were, every mistake easily picked out. Plus, but this is just an assumption, sitting down when playing instead of standing, moving might be a factor of why it sounds so sterile.
Personally I am really struggling to get my sound, or even a decent sound out of amp sims, never even found a preset I really liked. Even most ir's I scan through don't "click" when trying to find my sound. I get better at dialing in amp sims, checking input levels, phase, stereo image, but it is nowhere near as good as the same amp sims sound on youtube, or my H&K tri-amp in the rehearsal room. But it's nice to tinker with, recording riffs for the band at home, programming drums and bass to it, etc. The (free) tools we now have at our disposal are infinitely better than what was available I started (Fasttracker on a 200mHz PC, :D, yes a tracker).
As for that modern sound, I can appreciate it for a while, but always seem to go back to bands with their distinct character, like Type O Negative - Bloody Kisses, Danzig - 777 i Luciferi, Phantomas - Director's cut. Even the old black metal , with the purposely crappy sound, has a character to it , character I am missing from modern bands.
Awesome video! Great points all around.
Great video Kohle, once again ! The new control room looks great, is it the one behind the vocal booth ?
The first thing you should understand is that rhythm is based on the heartbeat, not a clock. When you remove the heartbeat you lose the human connection.
Great video! Thanks for the nuggets of gold man! 🤘
So happy someone brings this up! Cudos to you! Get your creativity back and explore sounds again!
May be an old fart but I get tired of the modern sound after 20seconds mostly.
The same here...
9:02 for tube amps there is REVV G20 🔥🤟
My gripe isn't with the production, it's that everyone sounds like they're in the same band. When I hear a riff it could be any band or a solo youtuber. Hear any riff pre 2010 or so and I know exactly who it is in 2 seconds.
The reason why they sound like they're in the same band is partly because of production. That and a lot of people don't really write riffs. And the ones that do write riffs have a tendency to overdo them to where they have no soul or memorability.
It was already like that in 80-90's. Everyone used the same material. Boosted Marshall, super strat, Seymour JB + Tuber sreamer, gold ADA preamp and after EMG on esp guitar, mesa rectify, and the same clothes depending on the style.
One aspect that I think is overlooked is that music is easier to make than ever due to modern tools like drum programs, amp sims, etc. Because of this we have more metal than ever. So the way I see it there is the same amount of unique music out there if not more so, but there is a lot that sounds similar too and thats whats popular.
Classic metal is great (especially if you are an audiophile type), but as anything, it should be considered a stepping stone to the future, and to the dismay of many, it will! Glenn is right..., however, he (and others) needs to evolve like the rest of us and at least embrace hybrid. Especially since many aspiring musicians may not have a band or the resources to hang out in a studio, hence, in the box. That being said, I most certainly agree with you, as a musician/producer be creative with the tools based on limitations we are imposed with.
I also understand the computer side of it most musicians are working without a full band.Anyone who has ever gigged knows what some band members lack of work ethic is like.
I think another reason is we don't have "scenes" today like we used to. In the 80s and 90s, there were multiple scenes each had a different sound. The Bay Area and German thrash scenes sounded completely different from each other. Just like the Tampa, NY and Stockholm death metal scenes of the late 80s, early to mud 90s all had their own unique sound. everything is a mush mash nowadays to both good and bad. Take Portland, Oregon for example. Yes, they still have many great bands today but they used to have a more defined regional sound like bands like Whermacht. Everything has become gentrified or "hipsterfied" in the states. South America on the other hand, never lost their regional sounds. So many great bands like Ripper, Violator, Troops of Doom, Etc.
That’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Back in the days you had no clue about what somebody else was doing on the other end of the globe.
Can’t turn the clocks back and I don’t want to, but NOT referencing too much gets you closer to those days.
your points can be applied to most genres at the moment and also to the whole structure of society and commercialism in general also from a perspective of company decisions
Gute Tipps aus dem Kohlekeller! Wir haben auch versucht unseren Albumsound so orginalgetreu und ehrlich wie möglich klingen zu lassen.
"Start to cook your own shit" Just great, I agree to every point you made! #3 make a real difference.. Love LoA and always admired these drums hitting you in the last moment possible. Very alive.
Thanks for everything you do! Namely these kinds of videos.. and cytotoxins production 😄 my god it's incredible.
I think a big part of the issue with people calling today's metal generic is a memory bias problem. I'm not talking about nostalgia either, that's a whole different discussion. The problem is once you are 10, 20, even 40 years away from being present in the scene of the time is you forget about all the trash that was about. For every Master of Puppets or Powerslave or Iowa there were a whole bunch of generic, bad sounding copies. But we forget about those over time, so only the outstanding remains. In 20 years time we will look back in the same way only remembering the truly awesome and moaning at how generic everything sounds having the same nostalgia for this time period as we do for the 80s etc.
To expand on that a little bit though, the culture of the time is really important too. Back in the 80s and 90s for instance, metal was a new, underground and culturally dangerous genre. Just being part of that was exciting. The fact is most of the bands at the time weren't especially talented. They went into the studio with basically no budget so a lot of the records are sloppy and poorly mixed. But just existing was enough back then. Metal is basically mainstream now and people's expectations are higher.
Non of this is to fully defend the nature of metal today. The internet, and the crazy cheap cost of recording and releasing music in the modern age is necessarily going to result in a more cookie cutter nature. There's just sooooo much more music. But that doesn't mean there are less amazing bands, if anything there are more truly standout, talented and unique bands today than there have ever been.
Try listening to that compilation of New Wave Of British Heavy Metal that was made 20 years ago by Lars Ulrich. The variety of that genre was staggering. All of the bands sounded very different. And the really crazy thing is that it was all made within 5-7 years by bands in a single country.
Yeah I don't see me being sentimental about any current metal later on. I don't even like any of it now.
Hi Kristian. Very interesting video, as usual.
Your new control room seems to be cool, I like the way the acoustic treatement seems to be integrated. I hope you'll talk about that in your future videos.
Tchuss!
This is an additional editing room that I will also use fr videos.
and yes, I'll do a rundown once it is finished!
I mix like six mics at the same cab. Utter chaos, great tones.
Metal has always been cutting edge, it has always moved forward in terms of skill, production values and other things have always evolved and will always evolve. The reason metal is generic today is mainly because people are afraid of sounding like a bad producer. They sacrifice the unique character of their music in fear of seeming incompetent of the studio aspect.
Great points here. Thanks for your insight. I agree especially with the internet and songwriting aspect. Too much stuff available; too much tools used in the same way and people no longer writing songs together in the reharsal room. I remember those days. Took us a month to put a song together and then 3 to make it tight. I miss the 90's 😭
Best Kohle-video so far (and that means a lot!). THANK YOU!!!
Best video out there on the subject of generic metal.
I am inspired dude!!
Cheers.
Lately, I've been trying to think outside of the box lately with my mixes. I've been experimenting with blending different amp sims and cab sims and stuff like that. For me, it's less about making the process turn key and easy to dial in and more about giving each song it's own identity and using tones that work best for the song. If that's something slick, cool. If that's something raw and nasty, also cool.
Good to hear someone else does what I’ve been doing for years. Now I can get any sound and get the effects to do exactly what I want.. So right! Rely on your own instincts and imagination.. I’m all original . I might play a few bars of one of my favorite songs to warm up then back to plugging away with original material.
all very good points. I think its important that people writing try and do something different and original and take risks. When people talk about great old recordings, they only mean the ones that sound good and in reality so many sounded terrible. Things have levelled off now where its hard to sound really amazing, but likewise nothing really sounds that bad either.
people are a bit scared to sound different or even bad and play it safe or try and copy what others do. I think the approach of wanting to sound like something else is what causes things to sound samey more than any particular production technique.
its all well and good wanting to produce and mix music that sounds original and great, but it really requires a band writing good songs, and playing them well, and I feel like thats the best place to focus as a producer.
Exactly, and the great stuff still rises to the top.... Maybe these are some of the reasons why there is little metal at the top? It does all sound incredibly similar. There are artists in several other genres that are more interesting 'metal' than the boring, generic copy and paste of what came before in metal.
That first L.O.A. Cd/album was epic!!! Glad someone else remembers it.
cheers!
Real talk at 9:40!!! Real as it gets...this is an example of why I will listen to your advice. Thank you for helping people understand how to be a better version of themselves even at the cost of undercutting yourself. Much Respect!!!
Great points. 90s metal recording on albums I think are the best. Giant leaps from the 80s productions
As always precise and on point🤘🔥
I'm about to release a new xong on youtube. I recorded all guitars with my Axe FX. But some days ago I just thought about reamping some of the guitars through my ENGL Savage Mk II. Seems that I go back to record again with tube amps like 10 years ago.
I'm not a producer but as a bassist I don't really like the modern bass tone. Sure, they work really well and are fukim great sounding but almost every modern band I hear have either a Dingwall or Warwick and almost always played through Darkglass. At first, the tone sounds incredible and then everyone uses it and now lost its uniqueness.
Personally I like this modern Bass Sound, because it makes a bass actually hearable in a dense mix. But I do everything I can to archieve a similiar sound with my own equipment, and I like my results.
True, I'd prefere a Jazz Bass sound over a Dingwall any day
Ec n with guitar sims, a mic’d Ampeg 8x10 and svt2 head sounds awesome
I miss the days of audie pitre cliff burton lemmy style bass tones
Serious question: what happens by using references like Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath or even my favorite sound The Black Album..?!? Just an idea..