The key with all asymmetric games is it is up to the players to balance each other out, you need to make sure one player doesnt get to get his engine going to how he likes by using the alliance system etc.
On the flip side, I absolutely love the gameplay of Rising Sun. And those I have played it with also enjoyed it. We weren't hugely engaged by the negotiaons but enjoyed the alliance cooperation, and some of us got more into trying to work out a deal with our ally that helped us out more than it did them. Eric Lang's design philosophy, especially for this mythic trilogy, has been to give players the option for overpowered combos as well as the tools to prevent them. Being blindsided by them isn't fun, but striving for it can be, as can knowing you deftly stopped someone from doing so. With the dragon example, as I am sure others have mentioned, the first time you play with it, you may very well likely have it taken hostage, but then you see that if you push for taking hostages, you not only get the benefit of the hostage, you protect your dragon, likely winning the battle, which can be quite crucial considering region diversity can net you a lot. I can see it not being for everyone, but it can be an absolutely amazing experience.
Thanks for the honest review, but I couldn't disagree more. Rising Sun is so fun and different then any other game I have played. Yes there is a learning curve and subtleties. This is the first review of yours that I have disagreed with. You make really good and entertaining videos. Keep up the good work. I tried the Kickstarter search and npi nor no pun included came up in the search.
Great review! I actually am in the camp that enjoys this game so far. I need 4 or 5 more plays to know for sure, but it is steadily creeping towards my top 10 games. We'll see if it keeps its luster.
Great review as always guys! While me and my group are on the spectrum of "we love this game" i totally understand where you come from with your criticisms. And as you put it, this is great with the same people, which thankfully is the case for us, so maybe that's part of the reason why we like it so much.
It doesn't feel good when you fawn over all the 22 monsters with amazing sculpts for several months and learn after one playthrough the river dragon is so vulnerable compared to yurei (usually a much better investment of your coins). However, I have never once thought, "I wish this monster didn't exist." The KS exclusive monsters are just extra trinkets and not the reason my group wants to play this game over and over. While the inclusion of so many monsters can feel like unnecessary bling, I think the shear amount truly unique and interesting content, the incredible depth for an area control game, and how much fun we have will keep this game hitting the table for many game nights. I have never bought a game that has been as much of a universal hit with my game group. Plus, with five sets of season cards, 7 non-exclusive clans and 7 kami every game feels different enough to rethink my strategy. This was 100% worth it for my group, but I question if the retail version is worth the msrp. I think the core box alone is enough for most groups, but can CMON ask that much for miniatures that are higher quality than needed and cardboard strongholds that get lost in a sea of miniatures?
I'm a real fan of area control games and Rising Sun is my favorite game of all, at the moment. Played 15-20 times and find it extremely balanced, even the 'broken' strategies (Fox Clan Righteousness/Sepukku combo, and Oni of Spite/Fujin combo) are counterable (and in case of Oni of Spite combo, it is there to give a desperate player who is very far behind a chance to still win the game). I do think there are some 'underpowered' cards (like the River Dragon, for example), but even this is very situational. Buying the dragon may mean not only 3 VP, but 13 (if you had like, 4 provinces and the one you win with the dragon will be your 5th, you win 10 more bonus VP at the end of the game), all of this for the cost of (probably) just having to win the Take Hostage bidding. If you have a lot of spare cash (or can take it for free, like Bonsai can, if he's already acquired his mandatory cards) it can pay off. I'm yet to see another game with so much interaction between the players, with all the active bribery and resource exchanging during the seasons. You can always bribe or intimidate someone to do something for you, and with the right people playing this will happen ALL the time. I've played with people who were not on this negotiation/bluffing thing and yes, they can feel underwhelmed, but even this adds more flavor to the game, because the 'smarter' players will then compete for their attention to try to make everyone in check, and this in turn can make the players with no skill in negotiation ending with more advantages (that they didn't even had to negotiate) just because they are a disputed 'resource'. The interaction between players in all phases is insane for both euro and area control standards The alliance system is a more delicate issue. In the first games there's a chance of the same player being alone 2 (or maybe even 3) seasons, because players instictively will tend to keep alliances that gave benefits to them earlier. This can generate a large gap and make the game less fun for the lone player, specialy if he is not the negotiator type, to bribe/intimidate for an alliance. But players soon learn to rotate their alliances every season, so mostly someone will only be lonely for 1 season (not creating a significant gap). It CAN be a noob friendly game, if the experienced players know how to check each other and not let just one monopolize the noob's attention. With the expansions the replayability is almost infinite. There's a ton of sets of cards, optional monsters, new clans and the kami miniatures on the board. The clan combinations chance the whole game since it will chance starting locations and mandate orders (not mentioning the clan skills). I found the kami expansion to add much more complexity and imprevisibility to the game, and it can be a little overwhelming to some people. It can be highly rewarding tough, with the right people, since it opens up so much more possibilities for me the perfect Rising Sun game is 5 people, random clans, random set of cards = 3 hours of pure joy and laughs
River dragon not actually any good and just sits there. Really? +5 force - you spend your coins protecting it - or you convince your opponents that's what you are doing. Or its just so overwhelming they chose Seppuku - either way the region is yours. River Dragon - like any of the others serves a purpose and you have to learn to use it well and to suit your ends.
Oni of Spite is exactly what happened to our first game. A lot of other completely overpowered combinations too. So I guess it somehow balanced out? Scores were all over the place in the end though, so it probably didn't. I still won together with my "ally" eking out just enough points to catch up to him (he had left anyone else in the dust with his teleporting Oni of Spite while I was protected by being lowest on the honor track after betraying him twice in the first two seasons) in the last battle in the game :D Playing was mostly enjoyable just to watch all the crazy stuff happening, not so much for "solving the puzzle". So imo the game is best when combined with drinks and food and good company as a piece of entertainment, much weaker as a 'serious', competitive game. Also don't play with 6 players, it took us forever to finish.
Ok, you got a new backer for your KS. I liked your review. I didn't backed Rising Sun last year because this area control, fighting, probably back stabbing mechanisms are not my cup of tea. BUT man am I jealous of this gorgeous peace of art. This looks so good. The artwork, the colors, the materials when you show it in close up, the money, yes the minis, the map, the player screens. I would instantly through my money at this thing if the gameplay would be anything i enjoy. But sadly this game is not for me.
After i really started to like your way of reviewing boardgames of recent videos i looked for a review of one of my favorite games... Rising sun. And here we go... :) i iave it since some months and was lucky to get the KS version for a good deal, and i love it so much. Even if some really dislike the bidding mechanism or other things of the game, i adore every piece of RS ❤ especially the board itself is a real masterpiece
Thanks for the review. I'm not sad I didn't back it, I can just tell this is the sort of game I wouldn't enjoy, but it was nice to learn a bit about it and to see some of the components.
Great review, I played the KS version of Rising Sun a couple of times at a local meetup and definitely felt underwhelmed (purely from my own board-gaming preferences) at the final gaming product, as compared to the detail of the components. I'm glad you guys invested in the KS version, as its refreshing to have the KS side of board-gaming reviewed once in a while!
Thank you for another verry cool review :D I have a little objection about 19:35 The Oni of Spite does steal 2VP from any player. Two conditions must be met. (1) Your Clan has to be lower in Honor-rankin than the player you steal from; (2) The Oni has to be moved into the region by any effect. In your example the Clan fielding the Oni is lowest on the Honor-track, which may happen fairly often and can be forced. That Clan is moving the Oni into a region where 4 other Clans have at least 1 Force, which happens seldomly and can not be forced by one (incidental). In this particular case the Clan who's fielding the Oni would gain 8VP (4 Clans times 2VP = 8VP) not 16VP as stated. Those 8VP may be raised to 16VP with the Fujin Kami by moving the Oni under the same conditions again in a new territory with 4 Clans having at least 1 Force there (even more incidental). Beside this (wieredematically) example, Rising Sun is a game of control and denial. It is mandatory for all Daimios to watch each step of all oponents, having a look at each card they buy. Social control is one of the best mechanisems to keep your oponents in check and push towards your own strategy. It is certainly edgy balanced if you let your oponents do waht they desire. It is balanced ok if you keep an eye on them. At least, this is my expireince so far. I agree that it is not a gateway and best played with a fix group of players :)
Impressed with your careful observation that more introverted people that might not want to engage in the same agressive social strategy might not enjoy themselves and feel isolated.
I have also had games of this with more introverted people who didn't do much bartering, maybe "hey here's a coin to join me" and then they opened up quite a bit when having a sense of cooperation with their ally. I appreciate that Rising Sun seems to make room for both styles of players. Of course, if the group is more mixed, that might make it less enjoyable, but that's fairly true for any game, really. Thing is in Rising Sun you really don't have to barter and negotiate if you don't want to and the game still holds up. It may have pushed that dynamic a bit much in marketing.
good to see you guys have a positive relationship with shut up and sitdown, without whom i never would have chosen to watch at length people talk about board games. i have more to say but there is too much information incoming as i attempt to form a thought while i watch…..more later should life not intervene and if this much effort garners a response. 🙂
wow im like a time traveler commenting on a 4 year old post . i suppose life may have intervened far more in your lives, i still would like a response, assuming you are not expired.
Not sure I understood the criticism that “the monsters do different things and some aren’t good if you don’t play smart.” Kind of a silly point to make and you spent several minutes on it, but that being said it was a pretty entertaining review.
I don't think the game would be a much fun as watching this review. Having Elaine take such a prominent role reinforces one of the reasons why people should back NPI's Kickstarter (which may be the point of the video). Anyway, love the review, love the channel and greatly appreciate all you do (maybe giant plastic minis of the hosts?). Thanks (Whew that was long-winded)
Ah well. I wouldn't lump all KS games into overblown disappointments, but applying a healthy dose of scepticism before you back is certainly advisable.
No Pun Included the only other game kickstarter I had ever done was for terrain from “tectonic crafts” back in 2012. Still waiting on it. Pretty sure I’ll never see it. I did pick up that Mysteria game(I’m sure I spelled that wrong). Anyway love the sense of humor. I have a channel about keeping aquariums and I like to make it as wierd as possible.
I've had a generally positive experience with boardgame kickstarters, though I've also been fairly selective about them - so far, I've mostly resisted the temptation to splurge on bling. My first kickstarter was Resistance: Avalon, then, after several videogames and RPGs, Coup, then Tiny Epic Kingdoms, and I've mostly stuck with games of that sort of scale. The big games I've kicked: Dungeon Lords Anniversary Edition, Xia (second edition), Vast: The Crystal Caverns (second printing), Gloomhaven (second printing) and Turing Tumble (the only big one that's not a second edition or compilation). I've also backed dozens of smaller games, including almost the entire Tiny Epic line (I'm not a fan of Defenders, so didn't kick the expansion). Generally, boardgame kickstarters are funding production rather than development, so you can expect to have a good idea what you're likely to get (videogame kickstarters are a lot riskier) so it's up to you to decide whether it's a good risk or not. Generally, those looking for a more modest investment are more likely to be good value.
You two make some great videos! I don't always agree, but the last thing we need is one giant echo chamber. Thank you for helping keep the BG world diverse.
Great review even though I disagree with some points. This game is slowly creeping into my top 10 games. As a spiritual successor to blood rage, this game has much more in store for it than it's spiritual predecessor. Keep up the good work!
17:52 Yeah, I stopped playing MtG exclusively because of Blue. The closest way I can describe Blue is a whole deck of Take Hostage. Blue operates entirely by slapping the pieces of the board and saying "EARTHQUAKE!"
Interestingly, the Indian English term for both turtles and tortoises is Tortoise (it describes all Chelonians in Indian English). Though i am not going to tell you what Americans call Tortoises because I am sure Efka knows this already.
Hello Efka! Actually I think you are spot on with this game. I’m not generally a fan of area control anyway so it was never going to win me over - but the overproduction feels like a detriment rather than a bonus to me (mainly because it’s paired with the price tag). I enjoyed my play of the game. But I don’t want to own it and while happy to play again I’m unlikely to request it.
I've played 5 players games a couple times and the issue is first and second player teams up and gets 4 powerful actions the first round and player 3 and 4 team up to get back to back picks as early as possible. Second round players 3 and 4 team up and get 4 powerful actions and players 1 and 2 team up to keep the momentum going. Round three player 5 finally gets to team up with someone because they are SOOOO far behind that they can't win and are just used to help someone else win. I guess I'm saying, play 3-4 players only. Anything above can feel unbalanced and any actions you do feel very limited if you aren't one of the first players.
I disagree: the game is too fluid for the strategy you mentioned be carved in stone. Yes, 1st and 2nd players can (and probably will) make an alliance in the first round, but the 2nd player (who will be the last to play the mandate on first round) will most likely play a Betray mandate (because Lotus can play any mandate regardless it's available or not) to try and snag some free provinces before the war, and so Koi player (1st player) will not benefit from it (and can even lose a province this way). In the 2nd round the configuration will be totally different. If Koi and Lotus owned the first round it quite doesn't makes sense for who is 'winning' to keep alliance with a close competitor. Both of them probably would benefit more allying with the player left off in the 1st round (the 5th player, Bonsai), even more because Bonsai's mandate of choice is Train. But yes, on the 2nd round is very possible that player 3 and 4 (Turtle and Dragonfly) form an alliance. The 3rd round is totally unpredictable. Bonsai (5th player) will have the upper hand to negotiate alliances, and most likely will ally with someone who is wishing to play a Train mandate, so Bonsai can buy a lot of the last season's expensive cards he needs to catch up And remember you can always bribe other players with coins, ronin (and promises) to convince them it's better to ally with you instead with someone who will not pay anything You really should give this game another chance with 5 people. It's perfect this way. Less than 4 it has way less interaction and battling, it becomes just a rush for points, and with 6 people it means that everyone will be allied with someone in all rounds
Clacking could be one of those things that gets misconstrued, sort of like our 70s style plush carpet does for you all. But I guess the joke is just low hanging fruit, sort of like your pronunciation of CMON. Great overview of Rising Sun , but only if Rummikub's clacking was as exciting as Rising Sun's clacking.
I never fancied this game, as much as I love all things Japanese. So I didn't bother, despite the beautiful minis. Zombicide Invader, however, I snapped up, because its fun tp play with your mates and even has a decent solo mechanic. If anything, the minis were less important - the quaility was OK, but hardly anywhere near minis by the likes of GW, Warlord etc, and thats fine, overall, the quality was excellent. CMON, and I'm not here to defend them at all, do make some good games. I just picked up The Grizzled, turns out.. CMON.
Good review, but I do not understand the math for the Oni of Spite. Shouldn't it only get ten possible points if moving into an area with five higher honored players? So, if that perfect double move moment happened should it not be, at most, another ten or 15? Just considering the possibility of two armies with max players near each other as unlikely. Also, its a Autumn card for the last round, its not that great. Its exactly like the River Dragon.
Great review guys - you covered a lot of stuff and it never felt like I was going to skip to the next section. What’s also good, is I disagree with lots of stuff - but I still really enjoyed it. My only criticism is, I was hoping for some insight into the experience of the base game - especially during the week it hits retail. The big question was for me Is just how much am I missing out getting the regular version? Is it still worth it?
Depends on what you pay to be honest. Regular game plays just fine, the upgraded components in the daimyo box are amazing though, I haven't use the extra monsters but they seem reasonable enough, with extra season cards and an extra clan, its more decent stuff in my opinion. The other expansions though seem a bit more mixed, monster pack is cool but kami unbound seems a bit much to me personally. The base game is a nice solid game in my opinion, it will see the table regularly with my group. I'd maybe wait for the retail price to drop a tad, I was actually super lucky and got the base game for £55 on ebay (bargain) and the daimyo box (+ 2 smaller expansion) for £80 (not as much of a bargain but still reasonable in my opinion). I wouldn't pay more than £80 for the base game. The KS extras and expansions just add 'more', which is great if you'll play a tonne but really are not necessary at all to enjoy the game (except the turtle clan plastic strongholds, man the cardboard ones REALLY suck in comparison).
Are you going to play 6 player? If so, then I think you're going to really miss not having the Fox clan. Why? The two Dynasty Invasion clans add fiddliness with their alternate season cards. And, it seems like you need both in a game in order to create competition when the train mandate is played. There are 10 monsters that are exclusive. The core game comes with 8 and the retail expansion adds 4. Will you notice the missing monsters? Maybe. This is really a variety thing, since you wouldn't be playing with all 22 monsters in a single game. But, if you buy the monster box, you'd likely use them every game. The exclusive component upgrades are cool, but there's no functionality lost. I will say that some of the standard cardboard bits look pretty meh - like strongholds. If I didn't have my KS version, then it would be hard for me to buy the retail copy. It's a really fun game, but putting a clan behind an exclusive wall is BS. It's one of the few times where not having exclusives might be a deal-breaker for me. A workaround would be to find some scans of the Fox clan shield online and print it on good quality, thick paper. Then allow a player to proxy Sun clan as Fox.
I played some rounds with the Kickstarter Version of a friend and because of the haptic feeling of the components i would never buy the Retail Version. It would feel cheap.
Hi, I wouldn't agree upon different clan abilities - there are only 7 political mandates in each season. That means, if you're playing by 4 players, there is a chance you'll use your ability only once. Even if you're going to use it more often, it's less meaningful move if your opponent choose political mandate relative to your uniq clan's ability. I can remember the game, in which i've been leading Dragonfly clan, and there were only two recruiting actions that I benefited from more than other players in the whole game.
Hi NPI! I was looking for this video and wasn't able to find it when I searched for it on YT and only found it on BGG. Is there any reason why this video went unlisted?
We decided to move our older videos to a playlist and unlist them. We want people to discover us from our newer work which we think is of much better quality critically and technically.
@@NoPunIncluded I appreciate your fast reply and your intention to give people the best you can give. At the same time the thought that many people won't be able to easily find such great reviews like your GWT or Forbidden Stars video breaks my heart. You did great work in the past, and it is a shame that people casually browsing YT won't be able to stumble into any of it. But ofc I understand that a lot has changed, and other priorities are in focus. I wish you guys all the best in the future!
This reminds me of my mixed feelings about Dinosaur Island. The current Kickstarter for the expansion, 2-player game, and X-treme edition of the base game has carved out a space in my brain due to all the hype. Despite this, I have some reservations about whether or not it is my kind of game. I like the individual mechanics but unsure if the whole package would click together for me.
I disagree with some points in the review. The first is about the dragon and war tokens. The river dragon is usefull when your strategy is aimed to the war tokens set collections. Getting different regions tokens will give 10-30 points in the end of the plus the points on the war tokens. Basically, if you have 6 war tokens that give you 12 points together you also have more 20 points at the end of the game. And, of course, when you win, you keep your minis on the board and maximize the power of the harvest card, wheh the dragon agains can be very usefull. Second point is about the clans abilities. Although it seems very powerfull, all clans have powers that are very helpfull in the game. Dragonfly Clan's ability is strong, but, since you are prepared for this, you may try to read his intentions and prepare for it. One way to make it is using betray againist this clan or taking the two marshal action cards and forcing him to move before the other players do. But I really liked the video and subscribed to the channel anyway. Very good work. ^^
To clarify, our issue with clan abilities is not that they are strong or weak. It's more about the flow of play. We feel that by being very potent they take something away from the formula of area control games. They give the player too much power, remove too many restrictions. Hope that makes sense.
I understand, but really don't think this is a big problem. As all the Clans break one rule, the point is in maximizing your gains. The Turtle Clan may move his strongholds and use it as a unity in battle, allowing it to always have the best spawn point; the Koi Clan may use his coins as ronins and ronins as coins in the battle, giving more freedom in resources management in the war; the dragonfly can surprehend the foes with his movements; Bonsai can pay just one coin to get any card, possibiliting him to aim for the cards, especilly when Tsukiyomi is in play; Lotus may use his power to make one mandate a third time in a season or to kill one card that is very important to the foes. The 5 basic clans break one rule each one. So, don't think this is a big issue. However, I understand your point. ^^
Yeah, most clans have abilities that remove a restriction or limitation. But all the other clans still have to worry about those restrictions. The point is precisely that, each clan has a powerful ability that allows him to play in a diferent way that no other clan can, and everybody must adapt to their own limitations and each opponent's lack of it.
i paid $100 for my base pledge and received an insane amount of goodies. Probably 90% of available content was included. I still have yet to play Rising Sun but this review makes me want to play it even more.
First time suing your video , already subscribe , and the main reason isn't the way you present the game , or how you making a good jokes , but for not selling away your souls instead you prefer to tell the truth, your not trying to sell but to do exactly what review should be , an honest and neutral from all points of view, i see you point here , i see a good components , very beautiful miniatures , but there something missing ... if i loved the age and cultures of Japanese samurais and fantasies i would defiantly buy this even for 200 :)
Hi there, enjoyed the video, don't share your opinion (after just a couple of plays). Would you mind sharing how many plays at what player counts you managed to play before the review? Also, did you have a look at the extra clans available? My feeling is that with CMON, the game is best out of the base box. Not taking into account the "bling" of course...
Rising Sun is an **amazing** value in plastic miniatures. If you want them to paint and make them look pretty in your cupboard, this is by far the best CMON has ever done. Consequentially, because this is a CMON game, the underlying game is forgettable and frankly there are far better ways to spend the time. It's not *terrible* IMO, just not good or even average, either. Play it once for the splendor, then paint things and put them on the shelf. It's super pretty. That's it.
It was my first play of Rising Sun which spawned my Dominant Species Test™, which is: If it was all reduced down to wooden cubes, and drab graphics, would it be as good? The answer here, even with the price aside, is clearly no.
On the one hand, I do agree with your test, and the Ethos behind your statement. Even though I don't think Rising Sun is "all that," I hesitate to say it is not good though. Actually, I think it is pretty good. Also, having done some studies in the field of Aesthetics, I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss pieces, color, and game "feel" as an important part of creating a world for gamers to interact with and through.
Rising Sun is a fine game, I hadn't meant to imply otherwise. I was only opining that it would detract a significant amount if it were reduced aesthetically to the most basic level.
There's two aspects to a game's presentation: One is the pure aesthetics - the fake ivory mandate tiles, the glossy plastic teardrops for the tea ceremony, the two different models for each faction's Bushi, the vast number of monster figures which often include 2 or 3 that are hard to tell apart at a glance... No real game effect, and could be replaced by wooden discs and cubes without affecting gameplay. The other is the affordances - the ways the design guides you through the game, hinting at good strategy, making the rules more intuitive, etc - the layout of the mandate track, the two-sided player reference cards used for politics and war, the yin-yang teardrops only fitting together in pairs. Dominant Species is still a good touchstone for the latter - it's still possibly the best rulebook I've come across (I have the 3rd edition for what that's worth), and the worker placement layout is key to turning what could be an unwieldy mess of rules into a smooth flowing experience. Another contrast is 7 Wonders - once you learn them, the icons on the cards work well and are more readable across the table than text would be, but there's not a lot of structure behind the icons - if you come across a new icon on a card, you will need to dig out the icon reference to figure out what it's supposed to mean. It would be better to have a short written description on the cards too.
Love the video. Did anything weird happen to occur with this video's rendering or anything? It just seems like it is ever so slightly sped up. It could just be something with my connection.
I kickstarted this but haven't played my copy yet. I have played other friends' copies. I enjoyed it to a point, but just like Blood Rage the cards and monsters feel like some are borderline useless while others are possibly OP. The clans were asymmetrical but nowhere near as much as Cthulhu Wars which I find far more enjoyable.
Unfortunately very first time i do not like your review :( after watching i have this feeling like RS is just an empty but beautiful shell. IMO (just IMO) it has a lot of content, strategy potential and negotiation aspect is great. BTW - allowing to take the big monster as a hostage is just a stupid mistake of the player not a game flaw. who knows, maybe thats just me. i love mythic japan. nontheless appreciate the effort guys! :) cheers
In accordance with Godwin’s Law, I feel that this sub discussion has had enough replies for me to compare the Oni of Spite with Hitler. I’m so sorry for this unfortunate but inevitable remark. Further detail on Godwin’s Law can be found on this totally objective website: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
I didn’t back it’s Kickstarter, but was fortunate enough to get the Kickstarter version from my FLGS. I read the rules and marveled in its splendor! Then I watched your review and started to feel a little nauseous. No offense, but I hope that l, after playing, I can disagree with you and enjoy this for years to come.
Everyone must know player's coin. And you actually can predict the strategy base on the situation. The winner wasnt always the strongest ,i think its pretty good battle mechanism
Great video as always but I feel that even the base game of blood rage is an amazing game without any of the kick starter benefits so I am not sure how you had a bad relationship with the mechanics of what is a fantastic game.
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a bit of errata: the Koi clan is the one which uses coins as ronin, the Bonsai is the one that buys stuff for 1 or nothing. Enjoyed the video!
Ah thanks for catching that!
only because I enjoyed smashing huge monster god fights with one lady and 15 coins :D
I have another piece of errata, all tortoises are also turtles!
The key with all asymmetric games is it is up to the players to balance each other out, you need to make sure one player doesnt get to get his engine going to how he likes by using the alliance system etc.
On the flip side, I absolutely love the gameplay of Rising Sun. And those I have played it with also enjoyed it. We weren't hugely engaged by the negotiaons but enjoyed the alliance cooperation, and some of us got more into trying to work out a deal with our ally that helped us out more than it did them.
Eric Lang's design philosophy, especially for this mythic trilogy, has been to give players the option for overpowered combos as well as the tools to prevent them. Being blindsided by them isn't fun, but striving for it can be, as can knowing you deftly stopped someone from doing so. With the dragon example, as I am sure others have mentioned, the first time you play with it, you may very well likely have it taken hostage, but then you see that if you push for taking hostages, you not only get the benefit of the hostage, you protect your dragon, likely winning the battle, which can be quite crucial considering region diversity can net you a lot.
I can see it not being for everyone, but it can be an absolutely amazing experience.
Thanks for the honest review, but I couldn't disagree more. Rising Sun is so fun and different then any other game I have played. Yes there is a learning curve and subtleties. This is the first review of yours that I have disagreed with. You make really good and entertaining videos. Keep up the good work. I tried the Kickstarter search and npi nor no pun included came up in the search.
I take that back. It is now coming up.
Great review! I actually am in the camp that enjoys this game so far. I need 4 or 5 more plays to know for sure, but it is steadily creeping towards my top 10 games. We'll see if it keeps its luster.
It did?
Great review as always guys! While me and my group are on the spectrum of "we love this game" i totally understand where you come from with your criticisms. And as you put it, this is great with the same people, which thankfully is the case for us, so maybe that's part of the reason why we like it so much.
It doesn't feel good when you fawn over all the 22 monsters with amazing sculpts for several months and learn after one playthrough the river dragon is so vulnerable compared to yurei (usually a much better investment of your coins). However, I have never once thought, "I wish this monster didn't exist." The KS exclusive monsters are just extra trinkets and not the reason my group wants to play this game over and over.
While the inclusion of so many monsters can feel like unnecessary bling, I think the shear amount truly unique and interesting content, the incredible depth for an area control game, and how much fun we have will keep this game hitting the table for many game nights.
I have never bought a game that has been as much of a universal hit with my game group. Plus, with five sets of season cards, 7 non-exclusive clans and 7 kami every game feels different enough to rethink my strategy.
This was 100% worth it for my group, but I question if the retail version is worth the msrp. I think the core box alone is enough for most groups, but can CMON ask that much for miniatures that are higher quality than needed and cardboard strongholds that get lost in a sea of miniatures?
I think all the extra monsters add replayability. Diferent sets of cards + diferent gods + diferent extra monsters each game.
I'm a real fan of area control games and Rising Sun is my favorite game of all, at the moment. Played 15-20 times and find it extremely balanced, even the 'broken' strategies (Fox Clan Righteousness/Sepukku combo, and Oni of Spite/Fujin combo) are counterable (and in case of Oni of Spite combo, it is there to give a desperate player who is very far behind a chance to still win the game). I do think there are some 'underpowered' cards (like the River Dragon, for example), but even this is very situational. Buying the dragon may mean not only 3 VP, but 13 (if you had like, 4 provinces and the one you win with the dragon will be your 5th, you win 10 more bonus VP at the end of the game), all of this for the cost of (probably) just having to win the Take Hostage bidding. If you have a lot of spare cash (or can take it for free, like Bonsai can, if he's already acquired his mandatory cards) it can pay off.
I'm yet to see another game with so much interaction between the players, with all the active bribery and resource exchanging during the seasons. You can always bribe or intimidate someone to do something for you, and with the right people playing this will happen ALL the time. I've played with people who were not on this negotiation/bluffing thing and yes, they can feel underwhelmed, but even this adds more flavor to the game, because the 'smarter' players will then compete for their attention to try to make everyone in check, and this in turn can make the players with no skill in negotiation ending with more advantages (that they didn't even had to negotiate) just because they are a disputed 'resource'. The interaction between players in all phases is insane for both euro and area control standards
The alliance system is a more delicate issue. In the first games there's a chance of the same player being alone 2 (or maybe even 3) seasons, because players instictively will tend to keep alliances that gave benefits to them earlier. This can generate a large gap and make the game less fun for the lone player, specialy if he is not the negotiator type, to bribe/intimidate for an alliance. But players soon learn to rotate their alliances every season, so mostly someone will only be lonely for 1 season (not creating a significant gap). It CAN be a noob friendly game, if the experienced players know how to check each other and not let just one monopolize the noob's attention.
With the expansions the replayability is almost infinite. There's a ton of sets of cards, optional monsters, new clans and the kami miniatures on the board. The clan combinations chance the whole game since it will chance starting locations and mandate orders (not mentioning the clan skills). I found the kami expansion to add much more complexity and imprevisibility to the game, and it can be a little overwhelming to some people. It can be highly rewarding tough, with the right people, since it opens up so much more possibilities
for me the perfect Rising Sun game is 5 people, random clans, random set of cards = 3 hours of pure joy and laughs
River dragon not actually any good and just sits there. Really? +5 force - you spend your coins protecting it - or you convince your opponents that's what you are doing. Or its just so overwhelming they chose Seppuku - either way the region is yours. River Dragon - like any of the others serves a purpose and you have to learn to use it well and to suit your ends.
Just for the NPI song this video blew my expectations away! Instantly went and backed the NPI Kickstarter!
Oni of Spite is exactly what happened to our first game. A lot of other completely overpowered combinations too. So I guess it somehow balanced out? Scores were all over the place in the end though, so it probably didn't.
I still won together with my "ally" eking out just enough points to catch up to him (he had left anyone else in the dust with his teleporting Oni of Spite while I was protected by being lowest on the honor track after betraying him twice in the first two seasons) in the last battle in the game :D
Playing was mostly enjoyable just to watch all the crazy stuff happening, not so much for "solving the puzzle". So imo the game is best when combined with drinks and food and good company as a piece of entertainment, much weaker as a 'serious', competitive game.
Also don't play with 6 players, it took us forever to finish.
We played with 4 brand new players the first time. We taught the rules and played in 2 hours, which I think will be pretty normal.
Ok, you got a new backer for your KS. I liked your review.
I didn't backed Rising Sun last year because this area control, fighting, probably back stabbing mechanisms are not my cup of tea.
BUT man am I jealous of this gorgeous peace of art. This looks so good. The artwork, the colors, the materials when you show it in close up, the money, yes the minis, the map, the player screens. I would instantly through my money at this thing if the gameplay would be anything i enjoy. But sadly this game is not for me.
After i really started to like your way of reviewing boardgames of recent videos i looked for a review of one of my favorite games... Rising sun. And here we go... :) i iave it since some months and was lucky to get the KS version for a good deal, and i love it so much. Even if some really dislike the bidding mechanism or other things of the game, i adore every piece of RS ❤ especially the board itself is a real masterpiece
Thanks for the review. I'm not sad I didn't back it, I can just tell this is the sort of game I wouldn't enjoy, but it was nice to learn a bit about it and to see some of the components.
"just hear these babies clack" - loved it
Will I enjoy this if I thought Inis tasted better than Terra Mystica in my mouth, or if I haven't clacked in many months?
Great review, I played the KS version of Rising Sun a couple of times at a local meetup and definitely felt underwhelmed (purely from my own board-gaming preferences) at the final gaming product, as compared to the detail of the components. I'm glad you guys invested in the KS version, as its refreshing to have the KS side of board-gaming reviewed once in a while!
I rarely comment on stuff, but this channel is awesome.
Thank you for another verry cool review :D I have a little objection about 19:35
The Oni of Spite does steal 2VP from any player. Two conditions must be met. (1) Your Clan has to be lower in Honor-rankin than the player you steal from; (2) The Oni has to be moved into the region by any effect.
In your example the Clan fielding the Oni is lowest on the Honor-track, which may happen fairly often and can be forced. That Clan is moving the Oni into a region where 4 other Clans have at least 1 Force, which happens seldomly and can not be forced by one (incidental). In this particular case the Clan who's fielding the Oni would gain 8VP (4 Clans times 2VP = 8VP) not 16VP as stated. Those 8VP may be raised to 16VP with the Fujin Kami by moving the Oni under the same conditions again in a new territory with 4 Clans having at least 1 Force there (even more incidental).
Beside this (wieredematically) example, Rising Sun is a game of control and denial. It is mandatory for all Daimios to watch each step of all oponents, having a look at each card they buy. Social control is one of the best mechanisems to keep your oponents in check and push towards your own strategy. It is certainly edgy balanced if you let your oponents do waht they desire. It is balanced ok if you keep an eye on them. At least, this is my expireince so far. I agree that it is not a gateway and best played with a fix group of players :)
Impressed with your careful observation that more introverted people that might not want to engage in the same agressive social strategy might not enjoy themselves and feel isolated.
I have also had games of this with more introverted people who didn't do much bartering, maybe "hey here's a coin to join me" and then they opened up quite a bit when having a sense of cooperation with their ally. I appreciate that Rising Sun seems to make room for both styles of players. Of course, if the group is more mixed, that might make it less enjoyable, but that's fairly true for any game, really. Thing is in Rising Sun you really don't have to barter and negotiate if you don't want to and the game still holds up. It may have pushed that dynamic a bit much in marketing.
good to see you guys have a positive relationship with shut up and sitdown, without whom i never would have chosen to watch at length people talk about board games. i have more to say but there is too much information incoming as i attempt to form a thought while i watch…..more later should life not intervene and if this much effort garners a response. 🙂
wow im like a time traveler commenting on a 4 year old post . i suppose life may have intervened far more in your lives, i still would like a response, assuming you are not expired.
Not sure I understood the criticism that “the monsters do different things and some aren’t good if you don’t play smart.” Kind of a silly point to make and you spent several minutes on it, but that being said it was a pretty entertaining review.
I love NPI! Support them on kickstarter if you haven't already!
I don't think the game would be a much fun as watching this review. Having Elaine take such a prominent role reinforces one of the reasons why people should back NPI's Kickstarter (which may be the point of the video). Anyway, love the review, love the channel and greatly appreciate all you do (maybe giant plastic minis of the hosts?). Thanks (Whew that was long-winded)
Jim Tompkins not bad at all as a review. ... You said it all.
I love this video! Just found you guys. I can’t wait to see more from you. I got my fist KS game the other day (GKR heavy hitters). Felt the same way.
Ah well. I wouldn't lump all KS games into overblown disappointments, but applying a healthy dose of scepticism before you back is certainly advisable.
No Pun Included the only other game kickstarter I had ever done was for terrain from “tectonic crafts” back in 2012. Still waiting on it. Pretty sure I’ll never see it. I did pick up that Mysteria game(I’m sure I spelled that wrong). Anyway love the sense of humor. I have a channel about keeping aquariums and I like to make it as wierd as possible.
I've had a generally positive experience with boardgame kickstarters, though I've also been fairly selective about them - so far, I've mostly resisted the temptation to splurge on bling. My first kickstarter was Resistance: Avalon, then, after several videogames and RPGs, Coup, then Tiny Epic Kingdoms, and I've mostly stuck with games of that sort of scale. The big games I've kicked: Dungeon Lords Anniversary Edition, Xia (second edition), Vast: The Crystal Caverns (second printing), Gloomhaven (second printing) and Turing Tumble (the only big one that's not a second edition or compilation). I've also backed dozens of smaller games, including almost the entire Tiny Epic line (I'm not a fan of Defenders, so didn't kick the expansion).
Generally, boardgame kickstarters are funding production rather than development, so you can expect to have a good idea what you're likely to get (videogame kickstarters are a lot riskier) so it's up to you to decide whether it's a good risk or not. Generally, those looking for a more modest investment are more likely to be good value.
You two make some great videos! I don't always agree, but the last thing we need is one giant echo chamber. Thank you for helping keep the BG world diverse.
Great review even though I disagree with some points. This game is slowly creeping into my top 10 games. As a spiritual successor to blood rage, this game has much more in store for it than it's spiritual predecessor. Keep up the good work!
17:52 Yeah, I stopped playing MtG exclusively because of Blue. The closest way I can describe Blue is a whole deck of Take Hostage. Blue operates entirely by slapping the pieces of the board and saying "EARTHQUAKE!"
Nice review, but I felt like there wasn't a conclusion or recommendation or final word, it just ended.
Interestingly, the Indian English term for both turtles and tortoises is Tortoise (it describes all Chelonians in Indian English). Though i am not going to tell you what Americans call Tortoises because I am sure Efka knows this already.
Hello Efka!
Actually I think you are spot on with this game. I’m not generally a fan of area control anyway so it was never going to win me over - but the overproduction feels like a detriment rather than a bonus to me (mainly because it’s paired with the price tag).
I enjoyed my play of the game. But I don’t want to own it and while happy to play again I’m unlikely to request it.
I've played 5 players games a couple times and the issue is first and second player teams up and gets 4 powerful actions the first round and player 3 and 4 team up to get back to back picks as early as possible. Second round players 3 and 4 team up and get 4 powerful actions and players 1 and 2 team up to keep the momentum going. Round three player 5 finally gets to team up with someone because they are SOOOO far behind that they can't win and are just used to help someone else win.
I guess I'm saying, play 3-4 players only. Anything above can feel unbalanced and any actions you do feel very limited if you aren't one of the first players.
I disagree: the game is too fluid for the strategy you mentioned be carved in stone.
Yes, 1st and 2nd players can (and probably will) make an alliance in the first round, but the 2nd player (who will be the last to play the mandate on first round) will most likely play a Betray mandate (because Lotus can play any mandate regardless it's available or not) to try and snag some free provinces before the war, and so Koi player (1st player) will not benefit from it (and can even lose a province this way).
In the 2nd round the configuration will be totally different. If Koi and Lotus owned the first round it quite doesn't makes sense for who is 'winning' to keep alliance with a close competitor. Both of them probably would benefit more allying with the player left off in the 1st round (the 5th player, Bonsai), even more because Bonsai's mandate of choice is Train. But yes, on the 2nd round is very possible that player 3 and 4 (Turtle and Dragonfly) form an alliance.
The 3rd round is totally unpredictable. Bonsai (5th player) will have the upper hand to negotiate alliances, and most likely will ally with someone who is wishing to play a Train mandate, so Bonsai can buy a lot of the last season's expensive cards he needs to catch up
And remember you can always bribe other players with coins, ronin (and promises) to convince them it's better to ally with you instead with someone who will not pay anything
You really should give this game another chance with 5 people. It's perfect this way. Less than 4 it has way less interaction and battling, it becomes just a rush for points, and with 6 people it means that everyone will be allied with someone in all rounds
Clacking could be one of those things that gets misconstrued, sort of like our 70s style plush carpet does for you all. But I guess the joke is just low hanging fruit, sort of like your pronunciation of CMON. Great overview of Rising Sun , but only if Rummikub's clacking was as exciting as Rising Sun's clacking.
Efka in a bubble bath. Kickstarter backed.
cheers. glad nudity helped.
Is it pronounced see-mun because you splurge out so much money?
Couldn't agree more. Also loved the "Lucky" tortoise reference.
Greatest song on RUclips, everyone else should just take down their music now.
you can tell that 4 million (kickstarter) dollars did good as we can see the quality of the product ... thou the gaming board could be abit thicker.
I never fancied this game, as much as I love all things Japanese. So I didn't bother, despite the beautiful minis. Zombicide Invader, however, I snapped up, because its fun tp play with your mates and even has a decent solo mechanic. If anything, the minis were less important - the quaility was OK, but hardly anywhere near minis by the likes of GW, Warlord etc, and thats fine, overall, the quality was excellent.
CMON, and I'm not here to defend them at all, do make some good games. I just picked up The Grizzled, turns out.. CMON.
Good review, but I do not understand the math for the Oni of Spite. Shouldn't it only get ten possible points if moving into an area with five higher honored players? So, if that perfect double move moment happened should it not be, at most, another ten or 15? Just considering the possibility of two armies with max players near each other as unlikely. Also, its a Autumn card for the last round, its not that great. Its exactly like the River Dragon.
Turtle is generic, Tortious is specific to just land based turtles....but they all are turtles.
Great review guys - you covered a lot of stuff and it never felt like I was going to skip to the next section. What’s also good, is I disagree with lots of stuff - but I still really enjoyed it. My only criticism is, I was hoping for some insight into the experience of the base game - especially during the week it hits retail. The big question was for me Is just how much am I missing out getting the regular version? Is it still worth it?
Depends on what you pay to be honest. Regular game plays just fine, the upgraded components in the daimyo box are amazing though, I haven't use the extra monsters but they seem reasonable enough, with extra season cards and an extra clan, its more decent stuff in my opinion.
The other expansions though seem a bit more mixed, monster pack is cool but kami unbound seems a bit much to me personally.
The base game is a nice solid game in my opinion, it will see the table regularly with my group. I'd maybe wait for the retail price to drop a tad, I was actually super lucky and got the base game for £55 on ebay (bargain) and the daimyo box (+ 2 smaller expansion) for £80 (not as much of a bargain but still reasonable in my opinion).
I wouldn't pay more than £80 for the base game. The KS extras and expansions just add 'more', which is great if you'll play a tonne but really are not necessary at all to enjoy the game (except the turtle clan plastic strongholds, man the cardboard ones REALLY suck in comparison).
Are you going to play 6 player? If so, then I think you're going to really miss not having the Fox clan. Why? The two Dynasty Invasion clans add fiddliness with their alternate season cards. And, it seems like you need both in a game in order to create competition when the train mandate is played.
There are 10 monsters that are exclusive. The core game comes with 8 and the retail expansion adds 4. Will you notice the missing monsters? Maybe. This is really a variety thing, since you wouldn't be playing with all 22 monsters in a single game. But, if you buy the monster box, you'd likely use them every game.
The exclusive component upgrades are cool, but there's no functionality lost. I will say that some of the standard cardboard bits look pretty meh - like strongholds.
If I didn't have my KS version, then it would be hard for me to buy the retail copy. It's a really fun game, but putting a clan behind an exclusive wall is BS. It's one of the few times where not having exclusives might be a deal-breaker for me. A workaround would be to find some scans of the Fox clan shield online and print it on good quality, thick paper. Then allow a player to proxy Sun clan as Fox.
Knowing cool mini or not they will probably release an expansion later with all the miniatures from the Kickstarter but in plastic
Wednesday livestream ?!!? I need to make a time machine!!!
I played some rounds with the Kickstarter Version of a friend and because of the haptic feeling of the components i would never buy the Retail Version. It would feel cheap.
would you rather play battle for rokugan? :)
Hi, I wouldn't agree upon different clan abilities - there are only 7 political mandates in each season. That means, if you're playing by 4 players, there is a chance you'll use your ability only once. Even if you're going to use it more often, it's less meaningful move if your opponent choose political mandate relative to your uniq clan's ability. I can remember the game, in which i've been leading Dragonfly clan, and there were only two recruiting actions that I benefited from more than other players in the whole game.
Hi NPI! I was looking for this video and wasn't able to find it when I searched for it on YT and only found it on BGG. Is there any reason why this video went unlisted?
We decided to move our older videos to a playlist and unlist them. We want people to discover us from our newer work which we think is of much better quality critically and technically.
@@NoPunIncluded I appreciate your fast reply and your intention to give people the best you can give. At the same time the thought that many people won't be able to easily find such great reviews like your GWT or Forbidden Stars video breaks my heart. You did great work in the past, and it is a shame that people casually browsing YT won't be able to stumble into any of it. But ofc I understand that a lot has changed, and other priorities are in focus. I wish you guys all the best in the future!
This reminds me of my mixed feelings about Dinosaur Island. The current Kickstarter for the expansion, 2-player game, and X-treme edition of the base game has carved out a space in my brain due to all the hype. Despite this, I have some reservations about whether or not it is my kind of game. I like the individual mechanics but unsure if the whole package would click together for me.
I wouldn't mind giving that game a try, now that it's been reviewed and out for a bit. Problem for me is that I can't stand the graphic design of it.
Love you guys' videos. Keeeeeep itup!
You guys are getting really good at this :) What was the seppuku thing about?
Why is there a blood rage frost giant on your board?
I disagree with some points in the review. The first is about the dragon and war tokens. The river dragon is usefull when your strategy is aimed to the war tokens set collections. Getting different regions tokens will give 10-30 points in the end of the plus the points on the war tokens. Basically, if you have 6 war tokens that give you 12 points together you also have more 20 points at the end of the game. And, of course, when you win, you keep your minis on the board and maximize the power of the harvest card, wheh the dragon agains can be very usefull. Second point is about the clans abilities. Although it seems very powerfull, all clans have powers that are very helpfull in the game. Dragonfly Clan's ability is strong, but, since you are prepared for this, you may try to read his intentions and prepare for it. One way to make it is using betray againist this clan or taking the two marshal action cards and forcing him to move before the other players do.
But I really liked the video and subscribed to the channel anyway. Very good work. ^^
To clarify, our issue with clan abilities is not that they are strong or weak. It's more about the flow of play. We feel that by being very potent they take something away from the formula of area control games. They give the player too much power, remove too many restrictions. Hope that makes sense.
I understand, but really don't think this is a big problem. As all the Clans break one rule, the point is in maximizing your gains. The Turtle Clan may move his strongholds and use it as a unity in battle, allowing it to always have the best spawn point; the Koi Clan may use his coins as ronins and ronins as coins in the battle, giving more freedom in resources management in the war; the dragonfly can surprehend the foes with his movements; Bonsai can pay just one coin to get any card, possibiliting him to aim for the cards, especilly when Tsukiyomi is in play; Lotus may use his power to make one mandate a third time in a season or to kill one card that is very important to the foes. The 5 basic clans break one rule each one. So, don't think this is a big issue. However, I understand your point. ^^
Yeah, most clans have abilities that remove a restriction or limitation. But all the other clans still have to worry about those restrictions. The point is precisely that, each clan has a powerful ability that allows him to play in a diferent way that no other clan can, and everybody must adapt to their own limitations and each opponent's lack of it.
Second review I watched and I'm kinda surprised you say there is nothing in this game...
I think it's fair to say that people are divided on this game.
Best review you've done
i paid $100 for my base pledge and received an insane amount of goodies. Probably 90% of available content was included. I still have yet to play Rising Sun but this review makes me want to play it even more.
First time suing your video , already subscribe , and the main reason isn't the way you present the game , or how you making a good jokes , but for not selling away your souls instead you prefer to tell the truth, your not trying to sell but to do exactly what review should be , an honest and neutral from all points of view, i see you point here , i see a good components , very beautiful miniatures , but there something missing ... if i loved the age and cultures of Japanese samurais and fantasies i would defiantly buy this even for 200 :)
Hi there, enjoyed the video, don't share your opinion (after just a couple of plays). Would you mind sharing how many plays at what player counts you managed to play before the review? Also, did you have a look at the extra clans available? My feeling is that with CMON, the game is best out of the base box. Not taking into account the "bling" of course...
Rising Sun is an **amazing** value in plastic miniatures. If you want them to paint and make them look pretty in your cupboard, this is by far the best CMON has ever done. Consequentially, because this is a CMON game, the underlying game is forgettable and frankly there are far better ways to spend the time. It's not *terrible* IMO, just not good or even average, either. Play it once for the splendor, then paint things and put them on the shelf. It's super pretty. That's it.
No Cathulu wars review? :)
I don't even care about the games anymore. Just want my popcorn and listen to the commentary :D lmao
Interestingly enough all the things they didn't like are why I love this game. I suppose I'm one of those diehard fans
Jescribano1 yup, I pretty much agree with their opinion, in my group this hasn't worked at all
It was my first play of Rising Sun which spawned my Dominant Species Test™, which is: If it was all reduced down to wooden cubes, and drab graphics, would it be as good? The answer here, even with the price aside, is clearly no.
On the one hand, I do agree with your test, and the Ethos behind your statement. Even though I don't think Rising Sun is "all that," I hesitate to say it is not good though. Actually, I think it is pretty good. Also, having done some studies in the field of Aesthetics, I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss pieces, color, and game "feel" as an important part of creating a world for gamers to interact with and through.
Rising Sun is a fine game, I hadn't meant to imply otherwise. I was only opining that it would detract a significant amount if it were reduced aesthetically to the most basic level.
I don't disagree with that. I do think it sparks an interesting conversation on legitimate ways to use "bling" to enhance games, and unnecessary ways.
There's two aspects to a game's presentation:
One is the pure aesthetics - the fake ivory mandate tiles, the glossy plastic teardrops for the tea ceremony, the two different models for each faction's Bushi, the vast number of monster figures which often include 2 or 3 that are hard to tell apart at a glance... No real game effect, and could be replaced by wooden discs and cubes without affecting gameplay.
The other is the affordances - the ways the design guides you through the game, hinting at good strategy, making the rules more intuitive, etc - the layout of the mandate track, the two-sided player reference cards used for politics and war, the yin-yang teardrops only fitting together in pairs.
Dominant Species is still a good touchstone for the latter - it's still possibly the best rulebook I've come across (I have the 3rd edition for what that's worth), and the worker placement layout is key to turning what could be an unwieldy mess of rules into a smooth flowing experience.
Another contrast is 7 Wonders - once you learn them, the icons on the cards work well and are more readable across the table than text would be, but there's not a lot of structure behind the icons - if you come across a new icon on a card, you will need to dig out the icon reference to figure out what it's supposed to mean. It would be better to have a short written description on the cards too.
I love radiohead references.
My takeaway from this review: this amazing game could have been even better. How exciting is that!
Love the video. Did anything weird happen to occur with this video's rendering or anything? It just seems like it is ever so slightly sped up. It could just be something with my connection.
it plays fine to us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am just crazy or else my connection is weird.
I kickstarted this but haven't played my copy yet. I have played other friends' copies. I enjoyed it to a point, but just like Blood Rage the cards and monsters feel like some are borderline useless while others are possibly OP. The clans were asymmetrical but nowhere near as much as Cthulhu Wars which I find far more enjoyable.
What game is that at 5:52 ?
Who's Dan?
I love u folks well done as always:)
But... I wanted you to recommend this game! What am I going to do now?
Be free!!!
Unfortunately very first time i do not like your review :( after watching i have this feeling like RS is just an empty but beautiful shell. IMO (just IMO) it has a lot of content, strategy potential and negotiation aspect is great. BTW - allowing to take the big monster as a hostage is just a stupid mistake of the player not a game flaw. who knows, maybe thats just me. i love mythic japan. nontheless appreciate the effort guys! :) cheers
I giggled out loud. Twice. Thanks!
This is a disrespectful comment.
This is a disrespectful reply
This is a passive aggressive remark to assert my dominance over the discussion.
congratulations, you broke the system
In accordance with Godwin’s Law, I feel that this sub discussion has had enough replies for me to compare the Oni of Spite with Hitler. I’m so sorry for this unfortunate but inevitable remark.
Further detail on Godwin’s Law can be found on this totally objective website: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
I didn’t back it’s Kickstarter, but was fortunate enough to get the Kickstarter version from my FLGS. I read the rules and marveled in its splendor! Then I watched your review and started to feel a little nauseous. No offense, but I hope that l, after playing, I can disagree with you and enjoy this for years to come.
We hope you do too!
Note to self, do not attend weddings NPI attends. Ever.
I'm still waiting for my Kickstarter. Very frustrating experience. Now your telling me the game sucks. Great.
how did it turn out? do you still think it sucked after playing it?
the thing i learned at rising sun school IS...
Assuming that 'Dan' is me..Hi Efka. 2 birds with 1 stone (Is there a phrase in Lithuanian for that?) Take on an over-hyped game and raise money. Nice!
it is, but replace birds with rabbits and stones with bullets.
BOARD GAMES ARE NOT FOOD
Great review.
Dude kinda looks like young Peter Jackson
Ankh on April 14th...
I agree with all your comments on the game. By the way, Kemet is still the best game of the genre.
22:24 its the Bonsai not the Koi, keep up nice review :)
So when can we expect a review of Feudum?
we haven't decided whether we're reviewing it yet.
Cherries are delicious.
we did ask for respectful comments and what do we get??? ;)
A tortoise is a type of turtle...sorry.
Thank you
fighting by bidding? I'm out.
Everyone must know player's coin. And you actually can predict the strategy base on the situation. The winner wasnt always the strongest ,i think its pretty good battle mechanism
It's not really, the review kind of got that part wrong. Bidding is important, but so is table strength.
I wish these games would move away from victory points.
lol. Cool video and the review was good as well.
has Efka lost weight? looking good man!
Genius
Yankee Candles FTW!
CLACK ATTACK! (nice review; also agree)
Great video as always but I feel that even the base game of blood rage is an amazing game without any of the kick starter benefits so I am not sure how you had a bad relationship with the mechanics of what is a fantastic game.
Love you.
Interesting .
This entire game seems awfully Orientalist.