Hey Chris and Cooper, what an excellent comparison! I especially like that you broke the playing comparison of the guitars into segments. It makes it much easier to hear differences. I would love it if you did that more often. Thank you for all the great content you guys post!
The 717e was my first Taylor. I’ve been eager to hear this “showdown” since the 400 series refresh was announced last week. I didn’t hear anything to make me regret buying my 717e, so that’s good. It was also evident that Chris felt a lot more comfortable and confident on the 717. Great demo, great discussion.
Yes indeed , they sound different. The 400 seems like classic S/R sound while the 717 has a broken in, more warm sound with a little more depth. Expect the baked top is partly responsible. No bad sounds with either.
Beautiful playing!! I love and appreciate the fact that you play consistently the same song throughout almost all acoustic reviews which IMO is really the key to get the right feel and comparison from each review. Thanks!!
To add to the disussion what to play: I quite like Chris‘ standard tunes because so you can compare in between different videos. And it is standard tuning and simple enough to know what is going on and most of us can play like that, so it is a good point to start. Nevertheless it would be great if Cooper add some more advanced tunes, too. So we could see, where a Guitar especially shines or has limittions
This is exactly the video I needed. One of these two guitars will be my next Taylor. Recently picked up a 317e and I love the Grand Pacific body shape. Lovely tone and easy playability. Looking for a spruce/rosewood acoustic next and these two are top of the list.
717BE is my first Taylor, and first steel string. I wasn’t looking for a guitar of this size, and I never liked dreadnaughts growing up- but the Grand Pacific has lovely curves, is very comfortable to play (though not a couch lounger), and the sound! I watched videos for weeks, plugged the phone into my truck’s stereo & home stereo, etc. and the 717 just sounded amazing, with a little something special over the other Taylors I’d been looking at. The appointments of the Builder’s Edition are clean and understated, what a fantastic execution of construction. I also appreciate the headstock’s inlay, I paddle a couple Northstar Canoes and there is more than a passing similarity to the inlay and NS’s logo that made me smile when I received the guitar. Pretty sure I still need a GS Mini…
Great comparison! Clear differences between the two. And -for now- only about $600 separating the two, pushes me toward the 717 BE. After watching this video, I want to pick up a 717 but 3 grand is a lot of money to pull out if my wallet. As Chris said in a past video, “value” doesn ‘t necessarily mean inexpensive. I fell in love with the tines of the 417e in the last video, but now I’m on a hunt to play one if each and then choose my “value”. I suspect it will fall with the 717 Builders Edition. But I haven’t played either yet. So, Chris and Cooper, you have activated my GAS with these last two videos. Thanks alot.
If price were no object I would still get the 417 - it sounded fuller, sweeter to me. I sold my 717 because I thought it was too dry sounding - and thats exactly what iI hear in this demo
Great demo guys. I recently bought a grand concert from Alamo and thought my next guitar would be a Grand Auditorium but the Grand Pacific is deserves a second look.
Love the 717e sound and it’s looks so I purchased one last Oct, but now it’s July and I’m not happy with it. I’ve averaged approx two gigs a week and it’s top is not holding up to this kind of work. It’s showing extreme pick wear to the point of I’ve stopped playing it afraid of making a hole. In the process of finding a fix, maybe having to add a solid pick guard. Taylor says the finish is very thin compared to other none Builders edition thus causing this problem. Wish I’d known this, so it’s definitely not a working guitar.
Another great comparison video from Alamo. There are literally thousands of these videos out there, some from individuals who wish to show-off their wonderful new guitar and get their fix on that “15-minutes of fame” we’re all supposed to encounter at some point in our lives, to high-end studio representations of the guitars most people only dream about. In my opinion, it is guitars at this price point (list price of the 717-straight acoustic is $3,299 and the 417e acoustic electric is $2,999) which are the most important to review. While still considered by just about anyone as “expensive”, in the real world of guitars at today’s prices, $3,000 is the price point where the player gets a guitar that is well above average yet below the higher-end guitars most of the major brands manufacture. In a nutshell, $3K buys a guitar that is at or near the top of the various better known brands’ standard production lines. Above $3K is where more exotic tone-woods begin to come into play (NPI) and higher-end hardware and accoutrements which are primarily aesthetic in nature and don’t radically impact tone. Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and the other really big brand names all have numerous lines which take the price from mid-high end into the stratosphere, and beyond, where prices then become competitive with “boutique” brands (lower production numbers in favor of a more hands-on, Old World approach) to a given build. There are too many to call out, but names such as Collings, Bourgeois, and Santa Cruz Guitar Company (SCGC) are well-known for eschewing “Henry Ford-like” assembly line techniques while notching the level of materials and craftsmanship up to a point where a much higher list price is required to cover the associated costs. While there is certainly a place for this type of guitar, which shakes out through several more price points from around $4,000 to $7,000 and $7,000 and up (reaching well into five-figures), these prices are simply too high for 90% of the marketplace, which, while fun to discuss and listen to, just aren’t relevant enough to warrant vast volumes of air-time. This is one aspect of reviewing that makes Alamo among my favored video “production companies”. I think they spend appropriate amounts of time on promoting their shop, “comic relief” to provide levity, a discussion about the specific guitars being reviewed, and some very fine strumming, picking, finger style, and lead work necessary to showcase the tonal spectrum of each guitar being played. Of the many hundreds, if not thousands of reviewers online, Alamo is among the best at reaching the above four objectives while providing enough nuance and uniqueness to separate themselves from the herd. They have what has become a significant library of reviews to the extent that many of our favorite guitars are represented. Technically, their studio has everything required to “A/B” various guitars, doing so without cluttering the tone of a given guitar with too many effects.
My second comment for the day. When I was last in the shop the 717 was unavailable so I A/B’d the 517e with the 417e. Aside from the primary difference, the 417e is rosewood and the 517e is mahogany, it was well worth my time. I found the 417e to be considerably louder with incredible projection…about as loud as any dreadnought I’ve ever played. It was punchy, articulate, with plenty of bottom end. The 517e had a mellower disposition but there was a real quality to the tonal spectrum. Individual notes seemed to be rounder and the decay rate was perfect. At the end of the day, I would describe the 417e to be more of a brawler possibly on par with something like a Martin D-28, more so than Gibson’s more well-rounded J-45, though you can clearly see similarities there from aesthetics standpoint. I played the two guitars for a couple of hours and, after walking around the block a couple of times (it was a beautiful San Antonio late-November day), I came back in and paid for the 517e. All I kept thinking was that its tonal shape was akin to those things we like about a fine, well aged bottle of red wine (never white). Though it lost out to the 417e in raw volume…this guitar just pours out the decibels, I preferred the slightly more “mature” tones that I was capable of coaxing out of the 517e. I’m also a heavier-handed player and found myself sort of accidentally overdriving the 417e to where I’d reached a point of diminishing returns. The 517e was loud enough to get the job done unless a player spends much of their time in bluegrass circles. Then, I think the 417e would be the better choice. I should also mention that I’m one of those players to tend towards mahogany over rosewood, so my comparison was significantly different than if Alamo had had the 717 in stock (rosewood to rosewood).
Very similar, but I can hear a difference. I like the tone of the 717 slightly better. I could be happy with either. Would like to see a comparison of the 517 to the 327 if you haven’t done one.
What are subtle differences for one person are huge for the next: These 717 and 417CE guitars sound like night and day to me. The 717 is smooth across the spectrum and somewhat subdued. It is suited to solo with a microphone, singer song writer, bluegrass, blues, and straight up jazz. The 417CE wants to play country and western music or lead. The guitar sparkles with high end. What will sound like in twenty years? I don't have a crystal ball. Both are good guitars.
Love the original 717, the whole look and vibe. I have a 1992 Taylor 810(yes the squared shoulder) and the white ivoroid binding eventually came unglued so I despise that binding now ven though my playing style probably took it off lol.
I've played 6 different 717's and while they all sound good, I never brought one home. One playing session with the 417 and I have a new favorite guitar. It's a perfect pairing with my 27 year old 815. This 417 is my DADGAD guitar. Any thoughts on the change in strings from Elixirs to the D'Addario XS?
I’m a bit surprised about the small price difference among the 2 (100 $ or so). 717 BE feels more appointed in my opinion. I totally agree on someone else comment; 717 BE has a more “broken” sound, satin finish+torrified top have an impact. Very curious to play the 417 anyway, as i own a 717 BE since almost 2 years
On youtube, the 417 sounds like it has a better note definition and the 717 sounds more blended. I would pick the 717 on looks but the 417 on sound. Just wish it came without a pickup so I could put an anthem in it.
Just wondering do you guys sell Alvarez if not you should. I've own and owned high end and bought a MD60 and it hits way above it's price,. I believe you sell a ton of them.
To me the 417 sounds a tad louder and notes jump from it better. More robust tone vs a warmer mellower tone of the 717. In a mix with other instruments the 417 will pop much better.
To me over RUclips the 417E has a heavier bass than the 717. It’s interesting in that this is the opposite of what Chris said he heard in the room. I was listening through a high quality pair of headphones, so maybe it’s the impact of not being in the room.
I just favor the 717 Taylor Guitar. It sounds and looks beautiful. I also favor the matte finish versus gloss. I will have my own non electric acoustic Taylor GS Mini Guitar soon via The Fret Shop in Huntsville, Ala., my happy place. From where I purchased my Martin Ukes. I look forward to improving my skills. I bless you in the holy name of JESUS.
This is all marketing. Taylor use CNC to cut their necks and lasers to cut the tops. If the 7 series has a better neck it’s because Taylor chose to make it better to distinguish between the series. If it’s a better neck they could put it on all of their guitars at no extra cost. So effectively they are putting an inferior neck on their lower series just to hobble them. There is no cost difference between the necks.
I owned a 717 and parted ways with it quickly. It sound dead, with no clarity. If I want a S/R guitar the 417 is much closer to what I think they should sound like. It looks much better also.
@@johnlord1399I'd rather be listen to paint dry then have to listen to the same boring after boring tunes he plays over and over at least who could have chose something a even little bit exciting to hear.Cooper should be the demo guy let the bald guy learn something from cooper.Cooper keeps it interesting and play all sorts of different tunes,I usually only watch if Cooper is demo the guitars.I want to hear what a real guitar player can give an honest opinion on what he thinks about a guitar and he'd not afraid to say what he really thinks,I own ten guitars and I want to hear what there about.Not Mary has a little lamb over and over and over every single time.Not trying to be mean but who wants to hear from someone who doesn't do the guitar justice.
@@markstaggs7342 You may not be trying to be mean, but comparing Chris' song selections to "Mary Had A Little Lamb" comes a dangerously close to that line, IMHO. In any case, I respectfully disagree, and believe that Chris' playing on acoustic demos allows the guitar to be front and center, and lets me hear the guitar, while Cooper's acoustic demos tend to be more about what Cooper sounds like. Although, Cooper has, on occasion, dialed it back to let the guitar sound be heard. Anyway, we don't all have to have the same opinion. Cooper did a 417 demo, BTW, which you can find on this channel.
Hey Chris and Cooper, what an excellent comparison! I especially like that you broke the playing comparison of the guitars into segments. It makes it much easier to hear differences. I would love it if you did that more often. Thank you for all the great content you guys post!
The 717e was my first Taylor. I’ve been eager to hear this “showdown” since the 400 series refresh was announced last week. I didn’t hear anything to make me regret buying my 717e, so that’s good. It was also evident that Chris felt a lot more comfortable and confident on the 717. Great demo, great discussion.
I agree. Nothing to make me get a 417e since the 717e is paid. The neck of the 717 is nicer than a regular Taylor.
Yes indeed , they sound different. The 400 seems like classic S/R sound while the 717 has a broken in, more warm sound with a little more depth. Expect the baked top is partly responsible. No bad sounds with either.
Beautiful playing!! I love and appreciate the fact that you play consistently the same song throughout almost all acoustic reviews which IMO is really the key to get the right feel and comparison from each review. Thanks!!
To add to the disussion what to play: I quite like Chris‘ standard tunes because so you can compare in between different videos. And it is standard tuning and simple enough to know what is going on and most of us can play like that, so it is a good point to start. Nevertheless it would be great if Cooper add some more advanced tunes, too. So we could see, where a Guitar especially shines or has limittions
This is exactly the video I needed. One of these two guitars will be my next Taylor. Recently picked up a 317e and I love the Grand Pacific body shape. Lovely tone and easy playability. Looking for a spruce/rosewood acoustic next and these two are top of the list.
417 is for my next guitar thanks for the demo
717BE is my first Taylor, and first steel string. I wasn’t looking for a guitar of this size, and I never liked dreadnaughts growing up- but the Grand Pacific has lovely curves, is very comfortable to play (though not a couch lounger), and the sound! I watched videos for weeks, plugged the phone into my truck’s stereo & home stereo, etc. and the 717 just sounded amazing, with a little something special over the other Taylors I’d been looking at. The appointments of the Builder’s Edition are clean and understated, what a fantastic execution of construction. I also appreciate the headstock’s inlay, I paddle a couple Northstar Canoes and there is more than a passing similarity to the inlay and NS’s logo that made me smile when I received the guitar.
Pretty sure I still need a GS Mini…
Great comparison! Clear differences between the two. And -for now- only about $600 separating the two, pushes me toward the 717 BE. After watching this video, I want to pick up a 717 but 3 grand is a lot of money to pull out if my wallet. As Chris said in a past video, “value” doesn ‘t necessarily mean inexpensive. I fell in love with the tines of the 417e in the last video, but now I’m on a hunt to play one if each and then choose my “value”. I suspect it will fall with the 717 Builders Edition. But I haven’t played either yet. So, Chris and Cooper, you have activated my GAS with these last two videos. Thanks alot.
If price were no object I would still get the 417 - it sounded fuller, sweeter to me. I sold my 717 because I thought it was too dry sounding - and thats exactly what iI hear in this demo
Great demo guys. I recently bought a grand concert from Alamo and thought my next guitar would be a Grand Auditorium but the Grand Pacific is deserves a second look.
Love the 717e sound and it’s looks so I purchased one last Oct, but now it’s July and I’m not happy with it. I’ve averaged approx two gigs a week and it’s top is not holding up to this kind of work. It’s showing extreme pick wear to the point of I’ve stopped playing it afraid of making a hole. In the process of finding a fix, maybe having to add a solid pick guard. Taylor says the finish is very thin compared to other none Builders edition thus causing this problem. Wish I’d known this, so it’s definitely not a working guitar.
Another great comparison video from Alamo. There are literally thousands of these videos out there, some from individuals who wish to show-off their wonderful new guitar and get their fix on that “15-minutes of fame” we’re all supposed to encounter at some point in our lives, to high-end studio representations of the guitars most people only dream about. In my opinion, it is guitars at this price point (list price of the 717-straight acoustic is $3,299 and the 417e acoustic electric is $2,999) which are the most important to review. While still considered by just about anyone as “expensive”, in the real world of guitars at today’s prices, $3,000 is the price point where the player gets a guitar that is well above average yet below the higher-end guitars most of the major brands manufacture. In a nutshell, $3K buys a guitar that is at or near the top of the various better known brands’ standard production lines. Above $3K is where more exotic tone-woods begin to come into play (NPI) and higher-end hardware and accoutrements which are primarily aesthetic in nature and don’t radically impact tone. Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and the other really big brand names all have numerous lines which take the price from mid-high end into the stratosphere, and beyond, where prices then become competitive with “boutique” brands (lower production numbers in favor of a more hands-on, Old World approach) to a given build. There are too many to call out, but names such as Collings, Bourgeois, and Santa Cruz Guitar Company (SCGC) are well-known for eschewing “Henry Ford-like” assembly line techniques while notching the level of materials and craftsmanship up to a point where a much higher list price is required to cover the associated costs. While there is certainly a place for this type of guitar, which shakes out through several more price points from around $4,000 to $7,000 and $7,000 and up (reaching well into five-figures), these prices are simply too high for 90% of the marketplace, which, while fun to discuss and listen to, just aren’t relevant enough to warrant vast volumes of air-time. This is one aspect of reviewing that makes Alamo among my favored video “production companies”.
I think they spend appropriate amounts of time on promoting their shop, “comic relief” to provide levity, a discussion about the specific guitars being reviewed, and some very fine strumming, picking, finger style, and lead work necessary to showcase the tonal spectrum of each guitar being played.
Of the many hundreds, if not thousands of reviewers online, Alamo is among the best at reaching the above four objectives while providing enough nuance and uniqueness to separate themselves from the herd. They have what has become a significant library of reviews to the extent that many of our favorite guitars are represented. Technically, their studio has everything required to “A/B” various guitars, doing so without cluttering the tone of a given guitar with too many effects.
My second comment for the day. When I was last in the shop the 717 was unavailable so I A/B’d the 517e with the 417e. Aside from the primary difference, the 417e is rosewood and the 517e is mahogany, it was well worth my time. I found the 417e to be considerably louder with incredible projection…about as loud as any dreadnought I’ve ever played. It was punchy, articulate, with plenty of bottom end. The 517e had a mellower disposition but there was a real quality to the tonal spectrum. Individual notes seemed to be rounder and the decay rate was perfect. At the end of the day, I would describe the 417e to be more of a brawler possibly on par with something like a Martin D-28, more so than Gibson’s more well-rounded J-45, though you can clearly see similarities there from aesthetics standpoint. I played the two guitars for a couple of hours and, after walking around the block a couple of times (it was a beautiful San Antonio late-November day), I came back in and paid for the 517e. All I kept thinking was that its tonal shape was akin to those things we like about a fine, well aged bottle of red wine (never white). Though it lost out to the 417e in raw volume…this guitar just pours out the decibels, I preferred the slightly more “mature” tones that I was capable of coaxing out of the 517e. I’m also a heavier-handed player and found myself sort of accidentally overdriving the 417e to where I’d reached a point of diminishing returns. The 517e was loud enough to get the job done unless a player spends much of their time in bluegrass circles. Then, I think the 417e would be the better choice. I should also mention that I’m one of those players to tend towards mahogany over rosewood, so my comparison was significantly different than if Alamo had had the 717 in stock (rosewood to rosewood).
We need a tutorial on the G run lick! Love your content!
Poderia comparar 417e-r vs 317e? Estou muito na dúvida em qual comprar, mas não tem nenhum vídeo comparativo no RUclips.
Thank you. I really like the 717. It seems to have fuller bass and low mids for a Taylor.
The 400 series started in 1991 with a 410!
Evan’s question….
Taylor 717 🤩, thanks for the great demos! 🎶🎶🎶
Very similar, but I can hear a difference. I like the tone of the 717 slightly better. I could be happy with either. Would like to see a comparison of the 517 to the 327 if you haven’t done one.
I like the sound, finish and looks of the 717. Very nice!
What are subtle differences for one person are huge for the next: These 717 and 417CE guitars sound like night and day to me. The 717 is smooth across the spectrum and somewhat subdued. It is suited to solo with a microphone, singer song writer, bluegrass, blues, and straight up jazz. The 417CE wants to play country and western music or lead. The guitar sparkles with high end. What will sound like in twenty years? I don't have a crystal ball. Both are good guitars.
Love the original 717, the whole look and vibe. I have a 1992 Taylor 810(yes the squared shoulder) and the white ivoroid binding eventually came unglued so I despise that binding now ven though my playing style probably took it off lol.
I've played 6 different 717's and while they all sound good, I never brought one home. One playing session with the 417 and I have a new favorite guitar. It's a perfect pairing with my 27 year old 815. This 417 is my DADGAD guitar.
Any thoughts on the change in strings from Elixirs to the D'Addario XS?
Please let Cooper play these demos… the way he plays is so great..
I feel like Chris McKee is ripping on guitar right now. What is going on? Is he trying to show up Cooper Greenberg? Super clean playing. Thanks guys!
13:50 " I, just heat it!"
I’m a bit surprised about the small price difference among the 2 (100 $ or so). 717 BE feels more appointed in my opinion. I totally agree on someone else comment; 717 BE has a more “broken” sound, satin finish+torrified top have an impact. Very curious to play the 417 anyway, as i own a 717 BE since almost 2 years
I thought this same thing. Makes me wonder if a price hike is coming for the 717?
On youtube, the 417 sounds like it has a better note definition and the 717 sounds more blended. I would pick the 717 on looks but the 417 on sound. Just wish it came without a pickup so I could put an anthem in it.
Just wondering do you guys sell Alvarez if not you should. I've own and owned high end and bought a MD60 and it hits way above it's price,. I believe you sell a ton of them.
Chris - if you were to get the 517 would you add a pickguard?
Nice of Taylor to make a guitar just for builders ❤😂
To me the 417 sounds a tad louder and notes jump from it better. More robust tone vs a warmer mellower tone of the 717. In a mix with other instruments the 417 will pop much better.
I like the 417e, it has a fuller sound, at least that's what I hear turu my earphones.
The looks are also much better.
Does the Wild Honey Burst attract bees?
What goes into Alamo Music becoming vendors of Taylor and other companies? Is there ever going to be a future where they sell PRS and McPherson?
It is a future we are constantly attempting to manifest
The 410 is the best Tommy Shaw has 2 of them. Hard to argue that. If you want mine let me know
May I ask what strings these guitars are wearing?
He won’t let that same song he does every demo go
To me over RUclips the 417E has a heavier bass than the 717. It’s interesting in that this is the opposite of what Chris said he heard in the room. I was listening through a high quality pair of headphones, so maybe it’s the impact of not being in the room.
I use good headphones and heard what Chris heard in the 717.
I strongly dislike the white Binding on the 417, Yuck! OMG my eyes. Both guitars sound great.
I just favor the 717 Taylor Guitar. It sounds and looks beautiful. I also favor the matte finish versus gloss.
I will have my own non electric acoustic Taylor GS Mini Guitar soon via The Fret Shop in Huntsville, Ala., my happy place. From where I purchased my Martin Ukes.
I look forward to improving my skills.
I bless you in the holy name of JESUS.
This is all marketing. Taylor use CNC to cut their necks and lasers to cut the tops. If the 7 series has a better neck it’s because Taylor chose to make it better to distinguish between the series. If it’s a better neck they could put it on all of their guitars at no extra cost. So effectively they are putting an inferior neck on their lower series just to hobble them. There is no cost difference between the necks.
717 has a rounder sound, slightly softer attack. 417 sounds more brighter and articulate.
Just one Ol 'cowboys opinion but I say 717 all the way!! God bless America!!
I really want another Taylor, but if i even dared my wife would throw me into that hole in the movie 300
What are you afraid of? It's only Earth and Water down there.
background noise??
Yeah, torrified steak!
You can get a terrified steak if you go cow tipping.
Even with earbuds, I can't tell much of a difference.
I owned a 717 and parted ways with it quickly. It sound dead, with no clarity. If I want a S/R guitar the 417 is much closer to what I think they should sound like. It looks much better also.
I don't want anyone messin' with my bridge or saddle. No Taylor e for me.
yes i too prefer my meats torrefied.. 😁
There’s only a $300 price difference between the two. Just get the 700 series lol
If I never hear that God forsaken song again it'll be too soon. PLEASE learn another song
Kinda would have liked to hear Cooper play he shows what these guitars can do.
Yeah, but Chris’ demos show me what the guitar WILL do in my hands.
@@johnlord1399I'd rather be listen to paint dry then have to listen to the same boring after boring tunes he plays over and over at least who could have chose something a even little bit exciting to hear.Cooper should be the demo guy let the bald guy learn something from cooper.Cooper keeps it interesting and play all sorts of different tunes,I usually only watch if Cooper is demo the guitars.I want to hear what a real guitar player can give an honest opinion on what he thinks about a guitar and he'd not afraid to say what he really thinks,I own ten guitars and I want to hear what there about.Not Mary has a little lamb over and over and over every single time.Not trying to be mean but who wants to hear from someone who doesn't do the guitar justice.
@@markstaggs7342 You may not be trying to be mean, but comparing Chris' song selections to "Mary Had A Little Lamb" comes a dangerously close to that line, IMHO. In any case, I respectfully disagree, and believe that Chris' playing on acoustic demos allows the guitar to be front and center, and lets me hear the guitar, while Cooper's acoustic demos tend to be more about what Cooper sounds like. Although, Cooper has, on occasion, dialed it back to let the guitar sound be heard. Anyway, we don't all have to have the same opinion. Cooper did a 417 demo, BTW, which you can find on this channel.
i am love Taylor guitar with great sound but i want to see classical guitar from Taylor thanks