Just some shop talk on fuels. When higher octane fuel is needed and how to go about it while staying affordable. Donate Race Fuel link... www.paypal.com... Thanks for watching! upallnight91@hotmail.com
I work at a full service gas station and did a lot of research on gasoline when I was in the stock car racing game and I can say this with the utmost confidence...FACT: I bet at least 85 to 90% of the people using gasoline are very much or totally clueless about it.
I have a YZ250 as well and your description of what pinging sounds like is interesting, because every once in a while I will hear what sounds like a rock hitting underneath the fender. I never notice it during acceleration, it seems to always do it when I let off the throttle and the RPM's are coming down. I also dont notice it after the bike is fully warmed up. Ill be keeping closer eye on it. Anyways, another great and informative video as usual. As with others, I also did not know that about plastic containers. Interesting stuff.
Thanks! Yeah, that was a tough one. I kept rambling on too much about the little things and would stop recording and try again. But seems as its been taken in well so that's good!. Thanks for watching and hope your weekend has be good!
Yes sir it sure is! Glad to hear its your too go. I have a cool one coming this week I'm excited about. The 2024 125SX top end with some mods. Hoping to get started on her on monday! Hope you get a good weekend of riding in!
My 92 RM250 doesn't ride right on pump gas. I have a gas station near by that sells the leaded high octane and the bike runs great on it. I also store my gas in a metal can and it lasts a very long time. Great video.
After all these years of watching mx videos you definitely have the explaining part down, imo probably the best. Good job bud. For the record I am in my 40’s and I ride a Yz 250 and my son a Yz 125 and I’ve been riding and wrenching on 2 strokes since I was 12 and ride weekly so this opinion comes from years of experience.
Oh man, appreciate the compliment! You and your son ride and every weekend, you my friend are living the dream! Enjoy it! hey thanks for watching and I appreciate the comment. Hope your having a great weekend. I will be getting my riding in tomorrow. All loaded up and ready!
Love and appreciate the engine sounds you make. Octane is resistance to pre-ignition is another way to say it also. I have seen 4 stroke 125 cc Hondas on a dyno and it produced the most horsepower with 87 octane (Honda specified 87) compared to high octanes, racing and aviation fuels. Octane booster I see in stores all say they are only for 4 cycle motors.
Right on. Surely works well for storage. I will be puling my generator out today thats been sitting for over a year and fire her up to get her ready to hurricane season. I expect her to fire right up thanks to the premix I put in her before strorage.
@@UpAllNight91 would you be willing to give me some advice regarding the head on my 2001 yz250, I’ve been heavily considering an apex head with their “upper and mid range” style dome, and am not sure if it is worth the money for almost 500$ Canadian. The reviews on it are very good but if I were to send my head out and get the squish tightened up and the dome milled out a bit to compensate for that would it be just as or nearly as good (considering the fact that it would be a fraction of the price) I would either run 91 pump if I can or 50/50 av gas and 91 / straight av gas if needed.
@@Yz4Life Hello. I think a sending your head out to have it rechambered is a better idea personally. Of course its only as good as the guy doing the head so make sure its someone who is known for good heads. It will be lighter weight than the aftermarket heads like Apex, and it can be tuned (rechambered) to a higher level of performance. Even though Apex tightens the squish to 0.050" they also lower the compression so it will run on pump gas which leaves a lot to be desired. A good performing head will require at least 50/50 Pump/race fuel. A winner profile for these bikes is a squish at 0.040" and the compression ratio (overall CC;'s) the same as the 2003 to 2010 5UP head. Thats what I use myself. I have a video on doing your own heads at home. I have done many heads myself and tried difference profiles and this profile I just mentioned has been the best overall as far as power, engine life, and being able to get away with only 50/50 fuel. I call it the weekend warrior profile lol. They can be setup for even more power than that but then 100% race fuel is required and engine life will suffer some so I stick with the weekend warrior profile
First we are not racers. We have always ran 93 non ethanol in everything with no issues. I never knew about the plastic can problem. I’ve always stored mine in VP fuel cans usually less than a couple of months. As always great info. Thanks
Wow they well 93 non ethanol in your area! 90 non ethanol is the highest they sell around here. The 93 octane fuel today is much better than I think many people give it credit for. It even burns cleaner than the old days because they had to make changes to it due to direct injection engines being used in many of the cars these days.
@@UpAllNight91 My money says it IS 90 octane non ethanol that non racer was talking about. I work at a full service gas station and did a shit ton of research on the subject when I use to race stock cars not too long ago. . All refineries work the same all over the US. The only way any refinery gas gets to be 93 octane these days is by the addition of the ethanol. That raises the octane of 90 non ethanol gas to 93 octane with ethanol. I am not talking about the specialized refineries that make specialized race fuels like VP and Sunoco. Those companies do make 94 to 96 octane non ethanol but you certainly ain't gonna buy it for no $4.50/gal. More like $12-$13 if you get a 5 gal. can of it. Maybe more these days. People are clueless about gasoline. When my son was racing motocross and the 4 stroke revolution started , many of those race idiots were spending $18-$22 /gallon for the "New" oxygenated fuel because it claimed up to "5 HP gain" on the can. It smelled like ass. Yeah OK... H.P. in a can!!! What a concept!!!
I’ve got the 2023 WR250f and I run shell ethanol, free 91 v-power and clots Hitrate makes the 91 =105 octane. I have the 2024yz250x and both bikes love it smells nice too
I have used VP4.4 with good results. I currently use VP-T2 with better results. But, I agree with you about the manual mix vs the pre-mix. Plus my Service Honda CR500AF does have head and cylinder modifications. There is one fuel I wish to try is the VP MRX02.
Yeah I havent tried MRX02 yet either, for myself at least. I have test riden bikes with it in there just havent tried on my own. I do know if surely requires a jetting change, need to be run richer. But is known to make a little more HP.
I wasn't expecting so much great information. I am running a high compression head on VP110 and was thinking of trying to go back to pump gas. I now know what to do to get there.
I agree: getting Pro Circuit to cut the head for C12, and taking the time to jet the carb, including trying different needle tapers, will give you a lot more power.
Worth pointing out for international viewers that there are different octane rating systems (and test methods). Europe posts the Research Octane Number (RON) on the pumps which is more relevant to low speed/load, the other system is Motor Octane Number (MON) which is for high speed/load. The US uses an average of these two numbers. 95 RON in Europe equals 91 in the US.
I’m from Europe (Finland) and we have two fuel options 95E10 (95 octane RON with max. 10% ethanol) and 98E5 (98 octane RON with max. 5% ethanol). I use that 98E5. It has actually around 99.3 RON, 88.3 MON and 93.8 average octane number like used in the US. I wouldn’t like to use ethanol mixed fuel at all but IMO it can have a small positive effect to prevent detonation. As that fuel has only around 95% of gasoline and around 5% of ethanol it’s energy content is less than 100% of gasoline has. When jetting a bike this has to be remembered. Same thing with two stroke oil mixed to gasoline like I do 32:1 so more oil in the mix and less fuel (gasoline) = leaner jetting if compared to 100% gasoline with the KTM/Husky recommended 50:1 => 60:1 less oil more gasoline mix. This means then of course larger jets, richer needle/needle setting etc. In Finland VP race fuel prices are very high and depending of the fuel type prices can be sky high like 8-12 euro per liter (not gallon) so gallon price would be like 30-45 euro per US gallon!!! So as you can see I’m not using race fuel 😎👍.
@@jannep6772 I'm also a Euro (actually British but moved to Germany 30 years ago but your post made me look at how they derive the pump ratings with ethanol added, there's a fudge factor since the ethanol changes the RON more than the MON. Interesting! I should have thought about it more, I built race engines previously including a lot of methanol burners for grass track and speedway but never got into using blended fuels except tipping in a bit of petrol to get them to start on cold days. On my dirt bikes I always run 95E5 and tune for that even though they are E10 capable, can't say I notice any difference when I've tried E10 but I stick with what I know!
All the years I've raced Race fuel just burns cleaner and crisp also used Agas 50/50 mix and works great and the tail pipe a biscuit colour. Jetting on my Ktm 250s and had many and never had a piston failure. Pipes also see the benefits of race fuel on colour of the bare metal Dorma pipes in deep sand or the Spes, Pro cuit pipes.
Man...thank you for making this video. It cleared up a lot of confusion for me. I'm not a newbie....I've rebuilt countless bikes and still own quite a few....but there are soo many fuels. I really like your explanation of the differences using each fuel. Here in NC there are a few stores that have vp110 at the pump for $10/ga. I try to run 1:3 mix with klotz. The only bike that really needs it is my 2002 RM125. For some reason...on just 93 pump gas..... I can hear some detonation. Like you said....mix in a little vp110....problem solved. GREAT VIDEO.
I have been running straight 100LL avgas in all my engines 2 & 4 strokes for 10 years now. From boosted snowmobiles to high compression 4 strokes & even in my 23 husqvarna 300 never had a single issue with detonation. It's 100 octane low lead no oxygenated
FYI Mr Vindiesel...while Avgas will run fine in any earthly vehicle, it was tested quite some time ago and proven to make considerably LESS HP than regular earthly gasoline. Why you ask??? this is common sense really....because AVgas is made for airplanes. Airplanes fly at much higher altitudes than cars do where the air/oxygen is much thinner (DUH) so AVgas is formulated different than CARgas so Mr. Science says that leads to different molecular structure where there are way less gas molecules in the cylinder because there is way less oxygen molecules in the cylinder...remember we are way up high in the sky now.... and when the air fuel mixture fires there is a lot less power produced because the fuel mixture is less dense. Get that???. So when you mix the same fuel in an earthly vehicle it won't have the same power. There will be a less dense fuel air mixture in the cylinders. There was an article in a car magazine some years ago...Hot Rod or Car and Driver I don't remember... that tested a bunch of fuels in a bone stock 305 cu. in. Camaro and it ran best, fastest, and most HP (+3) with the gas it was designed to be run on...that being just regular old 87 octane unleaded. You have to figure the company that made the vehicle whatever it is, spent a lot of money and did all the R&D on which fuel runs best in your particular vehicle. It's all common sense. You sound like one of those guys that read the "5 HP INCREASE" on a can of fuel and believe it...
We've been running the AV 100LL fuel in our 300hp seadoos on the big lake in Northwestern Douglas county Wisconsin this year and I'm pleased with it. We began running the 100AV LL three winters ago I'm out sleds and haven't had any issues at all.
Great video man! I may not comment alot but I watch em all on my TV. On phone to come leave a comment. I have a 521cc big bore stroker banshee atv. I run c12. I need to really dial in the jetting, advance, and fuel type. This type of info deff helps. Right now if I cruise steady 1/4 throttle it bucks almost like a lean buck. Idk it's weird. Runs mint up on the pipe. But steady cruise speeds off the pipe....it bucks so bad it throws my head around. I don't drive it b.c. of this so I do need a test n tune day, maybe re address everything from fuel to timing. I Lear alot from your tech style videos. Keep it up man. Good stuff!!
521 Banshee! Did I hear that right! Holy Cow Man! I bet that thing moves when its on the pipe. I wonder if that bucking is from the CDI using a timing curve for a 350 but you are now a 521. Not saying thats whats causing it, just kinda rolling ideas in my head lol. And thanks my man!
Excellent video, many people either waste money on a high end fuel when there is no reason to do so or damage their engine with improper fuel. Like you mentioned a lower octane can result in a better burn (more power) in many stock bikes. In my desert racing days i used aviation LL104 and it kept the power up and temp down (KTM495) and im fotunate to have a local gas station that has 93 non ethenol pure gas ⛽ to use in the bikes I ride today. If a person has never or does not know the sound of pre ignition , start your bike, have a hand full of BBs and slowly drop them on your engine case. That will give you an idea of the sound. Happy riding everyone. 🏜👍
Right on! Your right, many people do waste their money for high end fuel when its not needed. I'm a big fan of mixing in just enough as needed. We already spend enough money in this sport lol. Ohh, and then tell them they need to pick up all the BB"s hahaha! Hope your having a great weekend!
Can you talk about the cleaning properties if any of these fuels? I am considering running C12 in my TE300 Pro for no other reason than my understanding is that the VP C12 is a cleaner burning fuel than premium pump gas and it will essentially keep the engine cleaner inside. Can you talk about the advantages of race fuel for simple longevity and cleanliness? Thanks for doing this vid. Very interesting.
Yes I can. The race fuel are surely cleaner but I will admit the current pump fuel is very clean these days because of direct injection motors being out. They had to clean the fuels up and also add detergents to keep the injectors clean for direct injection. I remember years ago the intake valves on my mustangs would have junk built up on the top of the valve near the stem, but with todays pump fuel the intake valve looks as good as new.
15:40 I’m watching this after I had my piston and head get destroyed on my 22 YZ125 running 90 non ethanol, DO NOT RUN IT, IT WILL GRENADE. Long story short, I ordered a new Apex head and I’ll be running 93, but I was seeing if you advised running a mix. I think I’ll just stick with pump 93! Thank you so much for your insight!!!
Your welcome. For sure 90 octane non ethanol will eat these bikes alive! I have seen it with my very own eyes lol. The Apex heads are usually premium pump fuel friendly (93 octane) but any time I install a new (different) head profile I like to remove the head after a day of riding and check things out (only takes 15 minutes to pull the head). They will start to pepper the exhaust side of the pistons crown first (looks like its been sand or bead blasted)) before they do any damage to the head if its not enough octane for the head profile. So I look for signs of that. If there are no signs of that then I know the head/fuel combo is good and safe!
I have a YZ 250 with the Apex head and I run the CX Dome using a 50-50 mixture of Sunoco 112 mixed with 89 non-ethanol which results in 100 octane. I have over 150 hours on the engine with a rebuild of the top end at 130 hours and everything looked great.
Thanks for this valuable information I have a 2021 GasGas Mc 125 bought it new in 2021 and it came screwed up the carb had to be rejetted and the power valve had a sring in it that was not red green or yellow it never ran right
@@UpAllNight91Yes it runs good now it needs a top end build I have all the parts.I have vp 110 with redline racing 2 stroke oil at 50.1 but I am going to do 93 pump and the redline 40.1.you have some good information thanks.
Ever since vp is having alot of recalls with their fuel recently its better off too either look into sunoco, or other race fuel brands or you can just use non ethanol pump gas (91-93) if you have a stock bike.
I have a 87 jog that goes 5.6 0-60 9.2 in the 8th mile. It's ran on q16 with .010in squish 230psi cylinder pressure. Oxygenated fuel is a completely different type of power.
@@UpAllNight91 just went 5.44 0-60 yesterday. And no at .010in quench it doesn't, but I had a problem with braking/pulling cylinder base bolts out of the case eventually made grade 8 bolts and chromoly washers and heli-coiled the holes. But I was able to get the cylinder so much tighter that it crushed the base gasket enough for the piston to contact the head ended up having to shave .013in off the combustion chamber to get back to .010in clearance😂 it's a one and only build. People told me I'd never get a 11.0 sec 8th mile time and I've went 9.2@49 mph do to only running 520ft and having to slow down because I don't have enough road I'm sure I can get 8.8-8.9 if ran the whole 8th. The goal is to have the fastest stock length vertical minarelli known, as far as I know Athena has built a straight drag bike that's slammed,strutted, chromoly frame ECT ECT and goes 5.0 0-60mph so I'm on their heels and my wheel base was 39.5in but extedned it to 43.5in yesterday and that's how I got to 5.44 0-60. Wish I could upload dragy videos and graphs on here, idk why RUclips doesn't allow pics/videos in comments.
@@zacharygillette7810 Right. RUclips makes it hard on use sometimes lol. I once got a YZ250 down to like 0.019" and it started showing the piston was getting very close to the head. But that could have been from a bottom end that had some hours on it. What spark plug are you using on the drag bike?
I might have missed it; what’s your take on ethanol vs non ethanol fuel? If I’m using 2 tanks a month do you think it’s worth paying extra for? In NJ I’d have to buy it in a can; you can’t pump it here. So it’s like $100 for 5 gallons lol that would be about $100 a month vs $25 of 93 oct 10% eth. Thanks.
When it comes to unleaded pump fuel I actually like the pump fuel with ethanol in it. It does have more energy and the potential to make more power. The problem with ethanol is it doesn't age well. So if you plan to use it within a few weeks I say its good and good to go.
Thanks! Decallabs Here is a link decallab.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwz42xBhB9EiwA48pT72y2x6o5sNUNdMLcC_e3qYpRXyyDrYZI3Vpac61LFbDCzeIEdrbJvBoCB6EQAvD_BwE What I did was emailed them and asked what all designs they have for my bike. They emailed me back with over 100 different ones. I found them in there. Then I asked them to change a few things on it to what I wanted and they did it at no additional cost. I like that brand so far.
I just got a 24 300XC and thanks for the info really cleared things up for me. Question though I just have 91 here and it being fuel injected would pump gas still be fine if your mainly out trail and desert riding doing hill climbs or would you step up the octane?
Hello. I think 91 octane should be ok on that bike. Unless your planning to go WOT for extended periods of time then maybe it would be safer to get it up to 93 if possible.
Hello, in Spain we have 95 and 98 octane gasoline, which one is better for a yz 250 23, it only has fmf and shorty, the rest is original, the jet 178, 50, thank you, greetings
Thanks! This one busted a lot of myths I've heard thru the years. They actually were not myths per say, but this explains why so many people have their own opinion on what is best to run, even if they cant explain why it works better for them but don't even consider that it may not work well for you. My 4 stoke bud gave me a spash of very high octane VP stuff to try out 110+ or something. When the motor got hot it crapped out at the top, so I learned higher isn't better on my stock head 2020 YZ125. What's your feelings on Sunoco 260 GTX 98 octane in the metal can? Running with Castor 927, 32:1. I Can get it from the dealer around here. I appreciate any opinions or suggestions you have, as it may save me a ton of heartbreak later on down the road. What would be your suggested premix for a non-racer, that likes to get into the throttle? Stock head 2020 YZ 125. Love the channel and you are a true gentleman for sharing your experience with all of us. EDIT: cost isn't an issue. I don't burn enough of it to worry about the cost😞
Your welcome. Sunoco 260 GTX. Never used it but it seems like it would be a good fuel for the guy who is racing a AMA event where leaded fuel is illegal to use. 927 is a great oil as far as protection but it is a little dirty and will gum up power valves and the the exhaust pipe. But nothing smells better than it. I have a video covering premix if you are interested, here is a link ruclips.net/video/VovqIRO1j-c/видео.html Thanks for watching and hope your weekend is going great!
Its not that it calls for leaner jetting. It will run fine with the same jetting that pump fuel would require. But C12 can handle leaner jetting better than pump fuel which will crispen things up and extend the top end revs some.
16:20 Note that Non-Ethonol fuel Does have more energy than blended Ethanol pump gas. Why, you might ask? As more corn liquor or ethanol is added to the blend, fuel economy goes down. Why? Less explosive energy, more fuel is required to get the same bang or burn. Have a flex fuel vehicle? Fill it with a full tank of E85 and watch your economy go down by around 26% vs regular pump gas. Edit: It may seem like your bike is running worse on non-blended pump gas, but what's also happening is the fuel burn is richer. Throw in a dash of octane boost (if the bike needs it) and lean your main jet.
This is true, you gotta jet accordingly. Guess I didnt word that correctly, and honestly I put this video together quickly as I mentioned at the end.. In the car world E85 will make more power than 93 pump and is a popular to do to mustangs and such. A mustang coyote 5.0 will make 45 HP more just by switching to E85, but the fueling will need to be changed to richer trims and larger injectors for this. The same is true in our bikes. There is more power to be had with a Ethanol blend, as long as the its jetting for it. I dont think dirt bike riders are concerned with MPG though.
Hey! So you seem to know what you’re talking about haha I’ve been searching for a while on what the answer to my question is. My question is this: I have a stock 2023 CRF 250R 13.9:1 compression ratio I found some 110 “leaded” at a local gas station and wanted to give that a go. Is this okay to run in my bike?
Hello. I have seen 110 leaded race fuel cause issues with the fuel injectors on these bikes so I would avoid running it personally. The lead can also cling onto the spark plug and top of the valves. For my 4 strokes I stick with the unleaded stuff. VP does have some good race fuels for our 4 strokes that is lead free.
Hello. Leaded fuel can leave lead deposits (or more of a ash) in fuel injectors and stuff and for that reason I dont like using it in bikes with injectors but on our carbed bikes it doesnt hurt anything. It can leave a lead ash on the piston and exhaust system but its very soft and wipes away easy.
I can find 93 non E near me. I’m in an area heavily populated with boats and the gas station is near a popular boat launch so the fuel is always used. Still don’t recommend 93 non E? What if I mix the 93 non E with C12? Or just do premium pump 93 with a little c12? All stock 23 yz250 here
93 non E is good if you can get it. Over here we only can get non E at 90 so thats why I said stay away from it. But if you can get 93 I say go for it!
Great video, but I have a question. If you're going to have a smaller squish band, why lower the compression by raising the dome. Just leave it alone, or does fooling with the dome height increase HP. Confused in West Virginia
Hello! Tightening the squish band clearance will increase performance, it shoves more of the charge (the air and fuel) into the dome area where it will do the best work of producing power. But if the dome area is made too small it will raise the compression too high. Higher compression will require higher octane and if the compression is set too high then it will start to rob top end power. By tightening the squish clearance and then opening the dome back up they can achieve a stronger, cleaner running motor that doesn't require higher octane. But if max power is whats desired then tighten the squish clearance and set the dome with the higher compression. Although how high is the question, too high will rob top end power but if its set just right you can get all the benefits of the higher compression without robbing top end, being right on that edge. For me when I make my own heads that's where the test and tune trail and error part comes in. But when you go that route it will require higher octane for sure.
Thanks my friend!!! Better use/burn of the charge by putting more of it in the dome which makes more power. I knew more compression=more power to a point. Just didn't think about the dome being a better place to burn fuel to make more power. Love your channel
What should I use in a 2020 Husqvarna tc 85. It's used for trail riding. Mainly mountain trails. So hard up hills then 20 minutes of idleing coming back down.
Hello. If the head is stock it should be ok with fresh 93 octane pump fuel. Obviously mixing in a little leaded race fuel (as little as 1 gallon of race fuel with 4 gallons of pump) will give you a good safe buffer on the stock head. But if thats not a option then at least fresh 93 and make sure the jetting is not on the Overly lean side
You forgot one huge way to change you cylinder temps, change your mix ratio. if wide open, big end of rod needs more oil, why fuel is the best cleaner I have ever used, so don't clean your bearings, lubricate them with 2 stoke mix.
Question: at 14:30 min in video, you suggest a leaded race fuel for two strokes. As you point out, lead is just an octane booster. Is a leaded fuel better than an unleaded fuel with the SAME octane?
As far as I know 113 had lead in it. I could be wrong but thats what I am finding on a quick google search. It is also oxygenated so jetting would be required. I personally have no experience with 113 myself.
Also to try an answer your question better. Lead is cheap way to get octane over 100. This is why most race fuels that are affordable and over 100 octane are leaded
@@UpAllNight91 - so the only advantage of lead is that it is a less expensive octane booster - and not that it is a better octane booster than any other octane booster?
Pretty much. I remember back in 2006 when they made lead illegal for pro AMA, VP worked hard to make another fuel that had the same octane but without lead. They achieved it but the cost was through the roof and the riders all said it just didn't perform the same as the leaded stuff
have you gotten any of the recalled T2 in your bike? I have ruined three bikes all in one week. VP won't respond and I'm looking for tips on how to clean the inside of tank.
What’s your opinion on running 91 octane ethanol free running sea level jd jet kit in yz125 2005 430 main I think 40 pilot blue Needle 3rd clip air screw said to start at 1 1/2 I think we’re at 2- 2 1/4 turns out runs good I just wonder if a bigger main would help it or not necessary cuz I don’t want to waste fuel as I’m racing cross country 40-50 mile races I still have stock tank I need to get a bigger tank lll
430 sounds about right at sea level. You may be able to try a 37.5 pilot jet to crispen up the tip in some. The air screw at 2-1/4 is good to. Anywhere from 2-1/4 to 2-3/4th depending on the weather.
So I can actually run 93 ethanol fuel in my stock 23 yz125 just fine? I've been buying vp 94 ocatne and mixing gas at 100 a can. But would rather spend 15 bucks a gallon less but had no idea I could run ethanol in it
For sure, the 23 YZ125 with a stock head is totally happy with 93 pump fuel. I work on a few of them that run 93 and the piston and head comes out looking good showing no signs of pinging.
@UpAllNight91 awsome thanks man I just always figured ethanol would gum up the carb so I always ran with vp94 casue I can only buy 90 non ethanol here and its borderline not enough octane
@@TimmyStasny-ow3hl Oh yeah, your good. The ethanol wont hurt a thing, especially with the premix in it, that pretty much keeps it from doing any damage. and your right, 90 is not enough.
Thanks man hey by the way I am auto mechanic if u ever have car questions feel free to reach out to me u have helped me multiple times now if u ever stop your show iam canceling you tube on my TV haha it is literally the only show I enjoy watching on it and peacock for motorcross
@@TimmyStasny-ow3hl For sure will keep that in mind, thanks man!. I'm about the same, youtube for some people I'm subscribed too and peacock for motocross lol
@@UpAllNight91 yes they do I get the esso gold it’s ethanol free but only gos to 91 octane in Canada, unless you go to the airport a small one they will sell you airplane fuel and I’ve heard that some mix it with the ethanol free gas to get a higher octane
I have a question kinda unrelated to this video but I really need help here, I have 24 crf 250rx that I had wrecked and damaged the right fork tubes (inner and outer) problem I’m having is what can I interchange with the outer tube I saw a 2017 crf250r tube for a good price looks exactly the same but idk if it’ll work if there’s a slight change in the tube I know the 2017-23 crf 450s would work aswell 2018-23 crf250 are the same but what’s different about the 2017 tube? It looks the same
Hello. I checked partzilla. It will let you know what all years and models the parts fit. It does look like the 450r and 250r have the same outer tube till around 2017. Here is a link to this info www.partzilla.com/product/honda/51410-MKE-A01?ref=29b904c63b9da17d325d004647e996ac956f0036
I checked that out and saw it’ll fit a 2017 450 but I didn’t see a 2017 250, does the 2017 have different fork length or diameter than the 450? Another thing I wanna point out is in the listing I saw on eBay has a different part number but looks the SAME I don’t understand part number is 51410-krn-b11, like could you swap the 2017 250 fork onto a 2017 450 cuz so this would work onna 2024?
@@cheetomoto8375 the 2017 CRF450r was all new bike in that year. The crf250r didnt get these all new bike changes till 2018. Thats why the 2017 crf250r has different forks.
Yes I’ve been doing sum research the 2017 crf250 is basicly the same as 2016 which Honda added 5mm in length to the upper tube that yr but still had the air fork till 2018 but let’s say you have a 2017 250 could you swap say 2021-23 250/450 fork internals into that fork tube? Is it the same tube different internals or did they completely change tubes and internals for 2018
Hello. I'm not a expert on it (more of a greasy mechanic). I only based that off the article with the sportbike that produced better HP with 87 vs 93. They claimed it was due to 87 burning quicker in the high revving bike. Maybe flame front was the wrong word to describe it. After doing some research it appears you are correct, the flame front speed is independent from the fuels burn rate.
I'm not a expert on it but my mustang made more power on E15 than it did with none ethanol. And E85 is popular in the mustang world for producing more HP. I do know ethanol needs to be ran a little richer, depending on the blend. So when comparing by volume it may have less energy but when jetted accordingly it seems to make more power.
@@JackMacdonald-ih3ht Ahh ok. Yeah I heave heard that but when putting heads together myself I haven't seen it helps any in reducing pinging. I have heard the theories but just haven't seen it myself
Higher octane always make more power sorry to burst your bubble tell that to car and motorcycle tuners as well Eric gorr one of the best in the business he will laugh if you say higher octane doesn’t make more power 😂
In my experience higher octane will only make more power when the motor needed it to run correctly. Taking a low compression motor that runs fine on 87 octane and pouring 93 in it will not make any more power.
I agree with that totally but for a example 90s cr125 could run 104+ octane stock same with yz125 they were definitely making more power running 104+ rather than 87 or 93 I have a 92 cr125 Eric Gorr did all the drag porting etc before he retired last year I had him set the phathead for c12 108 thing flys also have it paired with vforce4R and smartcarb sc2
None of my 2 strokes have pinged off pump gas even my 06 YZ250 with an almost new cylinder and a D piston. 02 kx250, 99 kx250, 01 cr250, etc. original head on the Yamaha doesn’t seem to be a good design I fould plugs all the time till I switched it out to an apex SX dome after replacing way too many parts for no reason hoping to believe they know what they’re doing, it definitely has a way fatter rip off the grip and has zero jetting issue like before I’m on the same plug since I put it in and the top end I have now is around 80 hours I checked and it looks brand new still with zero blow by I’m gonna change it anyways obviously very soon. I rode that thing in the snow in high elevation all the way to the desert and such no change in jetting the top end looks new still on pump gas lol. The stock head squish/design just sucks.
The 06 gen YZ250 will absolutely grossly ping on pump fuel (here in FL at least) unless it's overly rich. Could explain your plugs not lasting with stock head.
@@keithalexander36mine never pinged it just jetted like dogshit. If it pinged it would be Detonating and none of my 2 strokes I’ve ever owned have detonated.
The YZ head out of all the different brands big bores and small bores including 500s that head design is the only one that won’t tune to pump gas, that I personally have jetted. Zero issues with any bike except for that one stock from the factory.
My 2006 YZ250 (owned 2 of them) both of them pinged in stock form with 93 pump fuel at sea level. My 2006 KX250 also pinged on 93 pump fuel at sea level.
I heard from a engine tuner years ago it was blended for high altitude and was not the best for our bikes. So I never tried it myself. But I have worked on people's bikes who use it and they usually don't show signs of detonation
Right on. I never tried av gas but it does seems to do the trick based on what I see when I open the motors on the guys who do use it. Surely seems to keep the pinging under control.
Your sound effects are classic. Got me chuckling a few times bud. Great informative vid.
LoL, thanks!
Hey man, I really enjoy your content. Always learn something about these MX bikes. Thanks for sharing
Your welcome. Thanks for watching and hope your having a great weekend!
I work at a full service gas station and did a lot of research on gasoline when I was in the stock car racing game and I can say this with the utmost confidence...FACT: I bet at least 85 to 90% of the people using gasoline are very much or totally clueless about it.
I have a YZ250 as well and your description of what pinging sounds like is interesting, because every once in a while I will hear what sounds like a rock hitting underneath the fender. I never notice it during acceleration, it seems to always do it when I let off the throttle and the RPM's are coming down. I also dont notice it after the bike is fully warmed up. Ill be keeping closer eye on it.
Anyways, another great and informative video as usual. As with others, I also did not know that about plastic containers. Interesting stuff.
Thanks. The rock sound on decel could be normal. They will usually ping while on the throttle but yeah I would keep an eye on it. Probably ok though.
Pinging maybe?
Great information! You covered a large area in a very easy to understand format. Thanks, man!!
Thanks! Yeah, that was a tough one. I kept rambling on too much about the little things and would stop recording and try again. But seems as its been taken in well so that's good!. Thanks for watching and hope your weekend has be good!
You're a really smart dude. I appreciate the time and effort
Thanks Brett!
I’m glad to see your channel is growing. You’ve become my go to channel for anything dirt bike related 👍
Yes sir it sure is! Glad to hear its your too go. I have a cool one coming this week I'm excited about. The 2024 125SX top end with some mods. Hoping to get started on her on monday! Hope you get a good weekend of riding in!
Incredibly informative, thank man!
Your welcome!
My 92 RM250 doesn't ride right on pump gas. I have a gas station near by that sells the leaded high octane and the bike runs great on it. I also store my gas in a metal can and it lasts a very long time. Great video.
Right on! That 92 probably has a decent amount of compression.
After all these years of watching mx videos you definitely have the explaining part down, imo probably the best. Good job bud. For the record I am in my 40’s and I ride a Yz 250 and my son a Yz 125 and I’ve been riding and wrenching on 2 strokes since I was 12 and ride weekly so this opinion comes from years of experience.
Oh man, appreciate the compliment! You and your son ride and every weekend, you my friend are living the dream! Enjoy it! hey thanks for watching and I appreciate the comment. Hope your having a great weekend. I will be getting my riding in tomorrow. All loaded up and ready!
Man this guy is soooooo awsome the way he explaine things is just right
Thanks! 🙂👍
Love and appreciate the engine sounds you make.
Octane is resistance to pre-ignition is another way to say it also.
I have seen 4 stroke 125 cc Hondas on a dyno and it produced the most horsepower with 87 octane (Honda specified 87) compared to high octanes, racing and aviation fuels.
Octane booster I see in stores all say they are only for 4 cycle motors.
LoL thanks 😅. Yeah, it seems higher octane than needed can surely hurt performance some. At least in 4 strokes.
My 4 stroke street bikes. Before storage i add 100:1 2 cycle oil. One time it sat 2 yrs. Never took the carbs off in the 20 yrs ive had it
Right on. Surely works well for storage. I will be puling my generator out today thats been sitting for over a year and fire her up to get her ready to hurricane season. I expect her to fire right up thanks to the premix I put in her before strorage.
Wow this video was just packed full on info. Thank you!
Your welcome. Thanks for watching!
@@UpAllNight91 would you be willing to give me some advice regarding the head on my 2001 yz250, I’ve been heavily considering an apex head with their “upper and mid range” style dome, and am not sure if it is worth the money for almost 500$ Canadian. The reviews on it are very good but if I were to send my head out and get the squish tightened up and the dome milled out a bit to compensate for that would it be just as or nearly as good (considering the fact that it would be a fraction of the price) I would either run 91 pump if I can or 50/50 av gas and 91 / straight av gas if needed.
@@Yz4Life Hello. I think a sending your head out to have it rechambered is a better idea personally. Of course its only as good as the guy doing the head so make sure its someone who is known for good heads. It will be lighter weight than the aftermarket heads like Apex, and it can be tuned (rechambered) to a higher level of performance. Even though Apex tightens the squish to 0.050" they also lower the compression so it will run on pump gas which leaves a lot to be desired. A good performing head will require at least 50/50 Pump/race fuel. A winner profile for these bikes is a squish at 0.040" and the compression ratio (overall CC;'s) the same as the 2003 to 2010 5UP head. Thats what I use myself. I have a video on doing your own heads at home. I have done many heads myself and tried difference profiles and this profile I just mentioned has been the best overall as far as power, engine life, and being able to get away with only 50/50 fuel. I call it the weekend warrior profile lol. They can be setup for even more power than that but then 100% race fuel is required and engine life will suffer some so I stick with the weekend warrior profile
Thank you for the continued knowledge dumps. I love hearing your experienced opinion on complex topics. I'm a nerd for this kind of shit haha
Right on! Appreciate you watching. I geek out on all this stuff too lol
Thats a bad ass 125 you got there
Thanks!
First we are not racers. We have always ran 93 non ethanol in everything with no issues. I never knew about the plastic can problem. I’ve always stored mine in VP fuel cans usually less than a couple of months. As always great info. Thanks
Wow they well 93 non ethanol in your area! 90 non ethanol is the highest they sell around here. The 93 octane fuel today is much better than I think many people give it credit for. It even burns cleaner than the old days because they had to make changes to it due to direct injection engines being used in many of the cars these days.
@@UpAllNight91 yes our Co-Op and a few mom & pop stations carry it. Right now it’s about $4.50 per gallon
@@tndeere2 Thats not too bad, considering 93 pump over here is about the same price right now lol
@@UpAllNight91 My money says it IS 90 octane non ethanol that non racer was talking about. I work at a full service gas station and did a shit ton of research on the subject when I use to race stock cars not too long ago. . All refineries work the same all over the US. The only way any refinery gas gets to be 93 octane these days is by the addition of the ethanol. That raises the octane of 90 non ethanol gas to 93 octane with ethanol. I am not talking about the specialized refineries that make specialized race fuels like VP and Sunoco. Those companies do make 94 to 96 octane non ethanol but you certainly ain't gonna buy it for no $4.50/gal. More like $12-$13 if you get a 5 gal. can of it. Maybe more these days. People are clueless about gasoline. When my son was racing motocross and the 4 stroke revolution started , many of those race idiots were spending $18-$22 /gallon for the "New" oxygenated fuel because it claimed up to "5 HP gain" on the can. It smelled like ass. Yeah OK... H.P. in a can!!! What a concept!!!
@@bultacowally I have had to rebuild more than enough motors due to oxygenated fuel being ran with no corrections made to the air fuel ratio.
Very entertaining and informative video.
Thanks Dennis, glad you enjoyed it!
I’ve got the 2023 WR250f and I run shell ethanol, free 91 v-power and clots Hitrate makes the 91 =105 octane. I have the 2024yz250x and both bikes love it smells nice too
Right on!
I have used VP4.4 with good results. I currently use VP-T2 with better results. But, I agree with you about the manual mix vs the pre-mix. Plus my Service Honda CR500AF does have head and cylinder modifications. There is one fuel I wish to try is the VP MRX02.
Yeah I havent tried MRX02 yet either, for myself at least. I have test riden bikes with it in there just havent tried on my own. I do know if surely requires a jetting change, need to be run richer. But is known to make a little more HP.
Good video, I had no idea about the plastic containers.
Thanks!👍
I like how simple you explain things. I just subbed.
Thanks!
Always great content. Thanks
Thanks! Hope your having a great weekend!
I wasn't expecting so much great information. I am running a high compression head on VP110 and was thinking of trying to go back to pump gas. I now know what to do to get there.
Thanks, Glad to hear it was of help!
I agree: getting Pro Circuit to cut the head for C12, and taking the time to jet the carb, including trying different needle tapers, will give you a lot more power.
Yes sir. The head mod is the best and PC knows how to do it right.
Worth pointing out for international viewers that there are different octane rating systems (and test methods). Europe posts the Research Octane Number (RON) on the pumps which is more relevant to low speed/load, the other system is Motor Octane Number (MON) which is for high speed/load. The US uses an average of these two numbers. 95 RON in Europe equals 91 in the US.
This is true. I kinda totally forgot to cover that. I had so much to fit in I guess something had to slip through the cracks
I’m from Europe (Finland) and we have two fuel options 95E10 (95 octane RON with max. 10% ethanol) and 98E5 (98 octane RON with max. 5% ethanol). I use that 98E5. It has actually around 99.3 RON, 88.3 MON and 93.8 average octane number like used in the US.
I wouldn’t like to use ethanol mixed fuel at all but IMO it can have a small positive effect to prevent detonation. As that fuel has only around 95% of gasoline and around 5% of ethanol it’s energy content is less than 100% of gasoline has. When jetting a bike this has to be remembered. Same thing with two stroke oil mixed to gasoline like I do 32:1 so more oil in the mix and less fuel (gasoline) = leaner jetting if compared to 100% gasoline with the KTM/Husky recommended 50:1 => 60:1 less oil more gasoline mix. This means then of course larger jets, richer needle/needle setting etc.
In Finland VP race fuel prices are very high and depending of the fuel type prices can be sky high like 8-12 euro per liter (not gallon) so gallon price would be like 30-45 euro per US gallon!!! So as you can see I’m not using race fuel 😎👍.
@@jannep6772 I'm also a Euro (actually British but moved to Germany 30 years ago but your post made me look at how they derive the pump ratings with ethanol added, there's a fudge factor since the ethanol changes the RON more than the MON. Interesting!
I should have thought about it more, I built race engines previously including a lot of methanol burners for grass track and speedway but never got into using blended fuels except tipping in a bit of petrol to get them to start on cold days. On my dirt bikes I always run 95E5 and tune for that even though they are E10 capable, can't say I notice any difference when I've tried E10 but I stick with what I know!
@@jannep6772 Dang yeah, expensive for sure.
All the years I've raced Race fuel just burns cleaner and crisp also used Agas 50/50 mix and works great and the tail pipe a biscuit colour. Jetting on my Ktm 250s and had many and never had a piston failure. Pipes also see the benefits of race fuel on colour of the bare metal Dorma pipes in deep sand or the Spes, Pro cuit pipes.
Right on. When you say the pipe benefits with race fuel on the color of the bare metel. Do you mean how it can turn blue when its run hot enough?
@@UpAllNight91 Yes.
@@Evo836ahh. I love it when I get them all nice and blue. Looks trick!
Man...thank you for making this video. It cleared up a lot of confusion for me. I'm not a newbie....I've rebuilt countless bikes and still own quite a few....but there are soo many fuels. I really like your explanation of the differences using each fuel. Here in NC there are a few stores that have vp110 at the pump for $10/ga. I try to run 1:3 mix with klotz.
The only bike that really needs it is my 2002 RM125. For some reason...on just 93 pump gas..... I can hear some detonation. Like you said....mix in a little vp110....problem solved.
GREAT VIDEO.
Your welcome! Yes sir, a little lead can go a long ways. 10 bucks a gallon is a good price. Thats about the lowest it can be found anywhere anymore.
Its 7.99/g here in wisconsin
@@JCSDieselPerformance Holy cow thats a great price!
I have been running straight 100LL avgas in all my engines 2 & 4 strokes for 10 years now. From boosted snowmobiles to high compression 4 strokes & even in my 23 husqvarna 300 never had a single issue with detonation. It's 100 octane low lead no oxygenated
Right on. I have never tried it but I do know people who are having success with it.
FYI Mr Vindiesel...while Avgas will run fine in any earthly vehicle, it was tested quite some time ago and proven to make considerably LESS HP than regular earthly gasoline. Why you ask??? this is common sense really....because AVgas is made for airplanes. Airplanes fly at much higher altitudes than cars do where the air/oxygen is much thinner (DUH) so AVgas is formulated different than CARgas so Mr. Science says that leads to different molecular structure where there are way less gas molecules in the cylinder because there is way less oxygen molecules in the cylinder...remember we are way up high in the sky now.... and when the air fuel mixture fires there is a lot less power produced because the fuel mixture is less dense. Get that???. So when you mix the same fuel in an earthly vehicle it won't have the same power. There will be a less dense fuel air mixture in the cylinders. There was an article in a car magazine some years ago...Hot Rod or Car and Driver I don't remember... that tested a bunch of fuels in a bone stock 305 cu. in. Camaro and it ran best, fastest, and most HP (+3) with the gas it was designed to be run on...that being just regular old 87 octane unleaded. You have to figure the company that made the vehicle whatever it is, spent a lot of money and did all the R&D on which fuel runs best in your particular vehicle. It's all common sense. You sound like one of those guys that read the "5 HP INCREASE" on a can of fuel and believe it...
We've been running the AV 100LL fuel in our 300hp seadoos on the big lake in Northwestern Douglas county Wisconsin this year and I'm pleased with it. We began running the 100AV LL three winters ago I'm out sleds and haven't had any issues at all.
4:56 do that again.
Too Fuking funny 😂
Made my day😂😄
LoL😎
More great information!!! Another great video!!!
Thanks Joel!
Great video man! I may not comment alot but I watch em all on my TV. On phone to come leave a comment. I have a 521cc big bore stroker banshee atv. I run c12. I need to really dial in the jetting, advance, and fuel type. This type of info deff helps. Right now if I cruise steady 1/4 throttle it bucks almost like a lean buck. Idk it's weird. Runs mint up on the pipe. But steady cruise speeds off the pipe....it bucks so bad it throws my head around. I don't drive it b.c. of this so I do need a test n tune day, maybe re address everything from fuel to timing. I Lear alot from your tech style videos. Keep it up man. Good stuff!!
521 Banshee! Did I hear that right! Holy Cow Man! I bet that thing moves when its on the pipe. I wonder if that bucking is from the CDI using a timing curve for a 350 but you are now a 521. Not saying thats whats causing it, just kinda rolling ideas in my head lol. And thanks my man!
I've read a few articles on fuel over the years that said if you mix 87 octane with 93 octane it makes more power than either by themselves 😊
Hmmmm. 🤔 interesting.
Or you can just buy 89 lol. Not kidding your local pump mixes 87 and 93 to get 89 octane. It's a 40/60 mix done right at the pump.
Yeah, its just mixed at the pump. From what I been told at least.
We used to mix 50/50 race pump gas.ya run straight race gas ya may need to fatten up the jets a tick
Detonation, knock is generaly heard as a metalic ringing of abnormal.. best heard in air cooled 2stokes..
Never heard it on a air cooled motor before but I bet it can surely be heard better
Just found your channel man. Great content! Got a 97 CR500, the thing is a beast. 👍
Thanks! 97 CR500! You got a gem there! I would like to own one.
@@UpAllNight91 if you get an opportunity I say do it.
Love your vids!!! Thank you for so much good info.
Your welcome, Thanks for watching!
Excellent video, many people either waste money on a high end fuel when there is no reason to do so or damage their engine with improper fuel. Like you mentioned a lower octane can result in a better burn (more power) in many stock bikes. In my desert racing days i used aviation LL104 and it kept the power up and temp down (KTM495) and im fotunate to have a local gas station that has 93 non ethenol pure gas ⛽ to use in the bikes I ride today. If a person has never or does not know the sound of pre ignition , start your bike, have a hand full of BBs and slowly drop them on your engine case. That will give you an idea of the sound. Happy riding everyone. 🏜👍
Right on! Your right, many people do waste their money for high end fuel when its not needed. I'm a big fan of mixing in just enough as needed. We already spend enough money in this sport lol. Ohh, and then tell them they need to pick up all the BB"s hahaha! Hope your having a great weekend!
Can you talk about the cleaning properties if any of these fuels? I am considering running C12 in my TE300 Pro for no other reason than my understanding is that the VP C12 is a cleaner burning fuel than premium pump gas and it will essentially keep the engine cleaner inside. Can you talk about the advantages of race fuel for simple longevity and cleanliness? Thanks for doing this vid. Very interesting.
Yes I can. The race fuel are surely cleaner but I will admit the current pump fuel is very clean these days because of direct injection motors being out. They had to clean the fuels up and also add detergents to keep the injectors clean for direct injection. I remember years ago the intake valves on my mustangs would have junk built up on the top of the valve near the stem, but with todays pump fuel the intake valve looks as good as new.
15:40 I’m watching this after I had my piston and head get destroyed on my 22 YZ125 running 90 non ethanol, DO NOT RUN IT, IT WILL GRENADE.
Long story short, I ordered a new Apex head and I’ll be running 93, but I was seeing if you advised running a mix. I think I’ll just stick with pump 93! Thank you so much for your insight!!!
Your welcome. For sure 90 octane non ethanol will eat these bikes alive! I have seen it with my very own eyes lol. The Apex heads are usually premium pump fuel friendly (93 octane) but any time I install a new (different) head profile I like to remove the head after a day of riding and check things out (only takes 15 minutes to pull the head). They will start to pepper the exhaust side of the pistons crown first (looks like its been sand or bead blasted)) before they do any damage to the head if its not enough octane for the head profile. So I look for signs of that. If there are no signs of that then I know the head/fuel combo is good and safe!
I have a YZ 250 with the Apex head and I run the CX Dome using a 50-50 mixture of Sunoco 112 mixed with 89 non-ethanol which results in 100 octane. I have over 150 hours on the engine with a rebuild of the top end at 130 hours and everything looked great.
@@NEFloridaDirtRiders Yeah as long as the octane is there, it will be safe.
what do you guys recommend, 100LL ? i had been using non ethanol gas its 91 octane is that one not good?
Try Dumonde Tech DTP Synthetic 2 Stroke Racing oil.
Its the best 2 stroke oil on the planet! jmo
Never even heard of DTP. Will look into it.
+1 for Dumonde Tech!!!!!
Love you broooooooo
Thanks!
Thanks for this valuable information I have a 2021 GasGas Mc 125 bought it new in 2021 and it came screwed up the carb had to be rejetted and the power valve had a sring in it that was not red green or yellow it never ran right
Your welcome. Did you ever get the 21 MC125 right?
@@UpAllNight91Yes it runs good now it needs a top end build I have all the parts.I have vp 110 with redline racing 2 stroke oil at 50.1 but I am going to do 93 pump and the redline 40.1.you have some good information thanks.
@@hotrodhootie Right on, Thanks man! Glad to hear shes running goof now.
Ever since vp is having alot of recalls with their fuel recently its better off too either look into sunoco, or other race fuel brands or you can just use non ethanol pump gas (91-93) if you have a stock bike.
I have a KTM 250 coming my way this week because of that VP recalled fuel
I have a 87 jog that goes 5.6 0-60 9.2 in the 8th mile. It's ran on q16 with .010in squish 230psi cylinder pressure. Oxygenated fuel is a completely different type of power.
Holy cow man, 0.010" and 230 PSI. That thing is tuned to the max! Does the piston show any kiss or witness marks? Thats pretty bad ass
@@UpAllNight91 just went 5.44 0-60 yesterday. And no at .010in quench it doesn't, but I had a problem with braking/pulling cylinder base bolts out of the case eventually made grade 8 bolts and chromoly washers and heli-coiled the holes. But I was able to get the cylinder so much tighter that it crushed the base gasket enough for the piston to contact the head ended up having to shave .013in off the combustion chamber to get back to .010in clearance😂 it's a one and only build. People told me I'd never get a 11.0 sec 8th mile time and I've went 9.2@49 mph do to only running 520ft and having to slow down because I don't have enough road I'm sure I can get 8.8-8.9 if ran the whole 8th. The goal is to have the fastest stock length vertical minarelli known, as far as I know Athena has built a straight drag bike that's slammed,strutted, chromoly frame ECT ECT and goes 5.0 0-60mph so I'm on their heels and my wheel base was 39.5in but extedned it to 43.5in yesterday and that's how I got to 5.44 0-60. Wish I could upload dragy videos and graphs on here, idk why RUclips doesn't allow pics/videos in comments.
@@zacharygillette7810 Right. RUclips makes it hard on use sometimes lol. I once got a YZ250 down to like 0.019" and it started showing the piston was getting very close to the head. But that could have been from a bottom end that had some hours on it. What spark plug are you using on the drag bike?
I might have missed it; what’s your take on ethanol vs non ethanol fuel? If I’m using 2 tanks a month do you think it’s worth paying extra for? In NJ I’d have to buy it in a can; you can’t pump it here. So it’s like $100 for 5 gallons lol that would be about $100 a month vs $25 of 93 oct 10% eth. Thanks.
When it comes to unleaded pump fuel I actually like the pump fuel with ethanol in it. It does have more energy and the potential to make more power. The problem with ethanol is it doesn't age well. So if you plan to use it within a few weeks I say its good and good to go.
Cool 96' look
Thanks Brother!
@@UpAllNight91 I've actually still got my 96' that I bought in April that year! Lol
@@EkonRekon ahh thats too cool. Them bikes are going up in value these days, its crazy!
I really like your graphics where did you get them? Thanks so much.
Thanks! Decallabs Here is a link decallab.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwz42xBhB9EiwA48pT72y2x6o5sNUNdMLcC_e3qYpRXyyDrYZI3Vpac61LFbDCzeIEdrbJvBoCB6EQAvD_BwE What I did was emailed them and asked what all designs they have for my bike. They emailed me back with over 100 different ones. I found them in there. Then I asked them to change a few things on it to what I wanted and they did it at no additional cost. I like that brand so far.
@@UpAllNight91 thanks so much
@@aaronyork6173 Yes sir!
The rooster agreed with you!
🤣He keeps my head on a swivel! LoL
I just got a 24 300XC and thanks for the info really cleared things up for me. Question though I just have 91 here and it being fuel injected would pump gas still be fine if your mainly out trail and desert riding doing hill climbs or would you step up the octane?
Hello. I think 91 octane should be ok on that bike. Unless your planning to go WOT for extended periods of time then maybe it would be safer to get it up to 93 if possible.
I have a 21 Husqvarna TX300i. I’ve been running AV 100LL what’s your thoughts on that?
Honestly I dont have any personal experience with av gas. But I have worked on bikes that ran it and it seems to be safe.
Hello, in Spain we have 95 and 98 octane gasoline, which one is better for a yz 250 23, it only has fmf and shorty, the rest is original, the jet 178, 50, thank you, greetings
Hello. If you have 98 as a option I would use that over the 95. These YZ250's like octane for sure.
Your 98 is our 93.
There's a big difference between preignition and detonation. BIG difference.
For sure there is. Was trying to keep it somewhat simple. Where octane is needed or not needed for detonation and pre ignition protection
Thanks! This one busted a lot of myths I've heard thru the years. They actually were not myths per say, but this explains why so many people have their own opinion on what is best to run, even if they cant explain why it works better for them but don't even consider that it may not work well for you. My 4 stoke bud gave me a spash of very high octane VP stuff to try out 110+ or something. When the motor got hot it crapped out at the top, so I learned higher isn't better on my stock head 2020 YZ125. What's your feelings on Sunoco 260 GTX 98 octane in the metal can? Running with Castor 927, 32:1. I Can get it from the dealer around here. I appreciate any opinions or suggestions you have, as it may save me a ton of heartbreak later on down the road. What would be your suggested premix for a non-racer, that likes to get into the throttle? Stock head 2020 YZ 125. Love the channel and you are a true gentleman for sharing your experience with all of us.
EDIT: cost isn't an issue. I don't burn enough of it to worry about the cost😞
Your welcome. Sunoco 260 GTX. Never used it but it seems like it would be a good fuel for the guy who is racing a AMA event where leaded fuel is illegal to use. 927 is a great oil as far as protection but it is a little dirty and will gum up power valves and the the exhaust pipe. But nothing smells better than it. I have a video covering premix if you are interested, here is a link ruclips.net/video/VovqIRO1j-c/видео.html Thanks for watching and hope your weekend is going great!
@@UpAllNight91 Tks, I'll check it out!
Does oxygenated fuel need richer jetting bc there’s oxygen in the fuel making it have more oxygen similar to sucking in more air
The atmosphere is 21% oxygen. That t2 will add another 3%. Thus more fuel needed. Makes a huge difference in power.
Yup, that's correct!
Why does c12 call for leaner jetting then pump?
Its not that it calls for leaner jetting. It will run fine with the same jetting that pump fuel would require. But C12 can handle leaner jetting better than pump fuel which will crispen things up and extend the top end revs some.
👍🏾🤘🏾
😆😆😆
16:20 Note that Non-Ethonol fuel Does have more energy than blended Ethanol pump gas. Why, you might ask? As more corn liquor or ethanol is added to the blend, fuel economy goes down. Why? Less explosive energy, more fuel is required to get the same bang or burn. Have a flex fuel vehicle? Fill it with a full tank of E85 and watch your economy go down by around 26% vs regular pump gas. Edit: It may seem like your bike is running worse on non-blended pump gas, but what's also happening is the fuel burn is richer. Throw in a dash of octane boost (if the bike needs it) and lean your main jet.
This is true, you gotta jet accordingly. Guess I didnt word that correctly, and honestly I put this video together quickly as I mentioned at the end.. In the car world E85 will make more power than 93 pump and is a popular to do to mustangs and such. A mustang coyote 5.0 will make 45 HP more just by switching to E85, but the fueling will need to be changed to richer trims and larger injectors for this. The same is true in our bikes. There is more power to be had with a Ethanol blend, as long as the its jetting for it. I dont think dirt bike riders are concerned with MPG though.
alcohol really lets you crank up the timing...Meaning more power. Go sniff around any race track and smell it.
Thanks for the info on fuel it was informative, God bless you, and your family as well.. Matt,KY..
Thanks Matt. God bless you and your family as well!
Hey! So you seem to know what you’re talking about haha I’ve been searching for a while on what the answer to my question is.
My question is this:
I have a stock 2023 CRF 250R
13.9:1 compression ratio
I found some 110 “leaded” at a local gas station and wanted to give that a go. Is this okay to run in my bike?
Hello. I have seen 110 leaded race fuel cause issues with the fuel injectors on these bikes so I would avoid running it personally. The lead can also cling onto the spark plug and top of the valves. For my 4 strokes I stick with the unleaded stuff. VP does have some good race fuels for our 4 strokes that is lead free.
Great video as always and detailed. Is't running raise leaded fuel going to be dirtier fuel leaving more carbon residue.
Hello. Leaded fuel can leave lead deposits (or more of a ash) in fuel injectors and stuff and for that reason I dont like using it in bikes with injectors but on our carbed bikes it doesnt hurt anything. It can leave a lead ash on the piston and exhaust system but its very soft and wipes away easy.
I can find 93 non E near me. I’m in an area heavily populated with boats and the gas station is near a popular boat launch so the fuel is always used. Still don’t recommend 93 non E?
What if I mix the 93 non E with C12?
Or just do premium pump 93 with a little c12? All stock 23 yz250 here
93 non E is good if you can get it. Over here we only can get non E at 90 so thats why I said stay away from it. But if you can get 93 I say go for it!
MXA thinks the oil in T2 is Maxima
Right, who knows.
Great video, but I have a question. If you're going to have a smaller squish band, why lower the compression by raising the dome. Just leave it alone, or does fooling with the dome height increase HP. Confused in West Virginia
Hello! Tightening the squish band clearance will increase performance, it shoves more of the charge (the air and fuel) into the dome area where it will do the best work of producing power. But if the dome area is made too small it will raise the compression too high. Higher compression will require higher octane and if the compression is set too high then it will start to rob top end power. By tightening the squish clearance and then opening the dome back up they can achieve a stronger, cleaner running motor that doesn't require higher octane. But if max power is whats desired then tighten the squish clearance and set the dome with the higher compression. Although how high is the question, too high will rob top end power but if its set just right you can get all the benefits of the higher compression without robbing top end, being right on that edge. For me when I make my own heads that's where the test and tune trail and error part comes in. But when you go that route it will require higher octane for sure.
Thanks my friend!!! Better use/burn of the charge by putting more of it in the dome which makes more power. I knew more compression=more power to a point. Just didn't think about the dome being a better place to burn fuel to make more power. Love your channel
@@thomasphilyaw8593 Thanks! Yeah you got it!
What should I use in a 2020 Husqvarna tc 85. It's used for trail riding. Mainly mountain trails. So hard up hills then 20 minutes of idleing coming back down.
Hello. If the head is stock it should be ok with fresh 93 octane pump fuel. Obviously mixing in a little leaded race fuel (as little as 1 gallon of race fuel with 4 gallons of pump) will give you a good safe buffer on the stock head. But if thats not a option then at least fresh 93 and make sure the jetting is not on the
Overly lean side
You forgot one huge way to change you cylinder temps, change your mix ratio. if wide open, big end of rod needs more oil, why fuel is the best cleaner I have ever used, so don't clean your bearings, lubricate them with 2 stoke mix.
I do have a separate video on premix that covered the oil ratios and such.
Question: at 14:30 min in video, you suggest a leaded race fuel for two strokes. As you point out, lead is just an octane booster. Is a leaded fuel better than an unleaded fuel with the SAME octane?
As far as I know 113 had lead in it. I could be wrong but thats what I am finding on a quick google search. It is also oxygenated so jetting would be required. I personally have no experience with 113 myself.
Also to try an answer your question better. Lead is cheap way to get octane over 100. This is why most race fuels that are affordable and over 100 octane are leaded
@@UpAllNight91 - so the only advantage of lead is that it is a less expensive octane booster - and not that it is a better octane booster than any other octane booster?
Pretty much. I remember back in 2006 when they made lead illegal for pro AMA, VP worked hard to make another fuel that had the same octane but without lead. They achieved it but the cost was through the roof and the riders all said it just didn't perform the same as the leaded stuff
Pre-ignition is NOT the same as detonation!
I need help, I have a 98 cr250, stock motor, pro circuit pipe, boyesen rad valve, could I run c12 ? Or just run 93 pump ?
On a 98 CR250 with a stock cylinder head you should be ok using either 93 or C12. It should be 93 safe.
have you gotten any of the recalled T2 in your bike? I have ruined three bikes all in one week. VP won't respond and I'm looking for tips on how to clean the inside of tank.
I dont use T2. Dang that sucks to hear man. What do you mean clean the inside of the tank, cant you just dump it out and pour in different fuel?
Ethanol gas in Ca sucks
Thats a bummer,
Your problem is not the ethanol, it's the gas. Ethanol is great, CA91 is trash because of the other additives to reduce emissions.
What’s best for 250 two stroke, stock, not premix fuel
What make and model?
How would we know if we are running an appropriate oil ratio?
If you dont know I would start with 32:1. Its a good safe middle ground ratio. It it fouls plugs and the jetting is good then go down to around 40:1
What’s your opinion on running 91 octane ethanol free running sea level jd jet kit in yz125 2005 430 main I think 40 pilot blue Needle 3rd clip air screw said to start at 1 1/2 I think we’re at 2- 2 1/4 turns out runs good I just wonder if a bigger main would help it or not necessary cuz I don’t want to waste fuel as I’m racing cross country 40-50 mile races I still have stock tank I need to get a bigger tank lll
430 sounds about right at sea level. You may be able to try a 37.5 pilot jet to crispen up the tip in some. The air screw at 2-1/4 is good to. Anywhere from 2-1/4 to 2-3/4th depending on the weather.
@@UpAllNight91 thank you
@@donalddonaldson7211 Yes sir!
So I can actually run 93 ethanol fuel in my stock 23 yz125 just fine? I've been buying vp 94 ocatne and mixing gas at 100 a can. But would rather spend 15 bucks a gallon less but had no idea I could run ethanol in it
For sure, the 23 YZ125 with a stock head is totally happy with 93 pump fuel. I work on a few of them that run 93 and the piston and head comes out looking good showing no signs of pinging.
@UpAllNight91 awsome thanks man I just always figured ethanol would gum up the carb so I always ran with vp94 casue I can only buy 90 non ethanol here and its borderline not enough octane
@@TimmyStasny-ow3hl Oh yeah, your good. The ethanol wont hurt a thing, especially with the premix in it, that pretty much keeps it from doing any damage. and your right, 90 is not enough.
Thanks man hey by the way I am auto mechanic if u ever have car questions feel free to reach out to me u have helped me multiple times now if u ever stop your show iam canceling you tube on my TV haha it is literally the only show I enjoy watching on it and peacock for motorcross
@@TimmyStasny-ow3hl For sure will keep that in mind, thanks man!. I'm about the same, youtube for some people I'm subscribed too and peacock for motocross lol
Ontario Canada we have 89 to 94 octane
94! Thats awesome. Wish we had that down here.
Pebbles in the pipe are what detonation sounds like to me
Right, boy that's not a good sound. 😮
I run 91 with KLOTZ 2 stroke oil, in my 1995 WR 250 seems ok.would like to run 93 but not in my area
Yeah, 91 should be ok in that bike as long as its kept fresh and not old fuel. What type Klotz are you using? I hear it smells good.
@@UpAllNight91 yah smells pretty good,i have used R50 and Techni plate.
@@mikeflynn5651 Ok. Seems to be priced pretty well. Hmm I actually might try some out.
@@UpAllNight91 yah try a quart tell me how it goes
@@mikeflynn5651 I will. Gonna do a little research on it. Its priced better than K2 and thats surely appealing.
What about 94 octane ethanol free
As long as its 94 octane it will be good and fine for a bike with a stock head.
It’s 91 here in Ontario Canada I add fuel octane boost the stuff says it can add up to 7 points
Right on. Do they add ethanol to the fuel in Canada like they do here in the states?
@@UpAllNight91 yes they do I get the esso gold it’s ethanol free but only gos to 91 octane in Canada, unless you go to the airport a small one they will sell you airplane fuel and I’ve heard that some mix it with the ethanol free gas to get a higher octane
@@rezkidgamingyt4725 Right on. I didnt know if that was a thing in the US only.
@@UpAllNight91 no Canada’s gas sucks too for high compression engines anyway
@@rezkidgamingyt4725 Oh thats a bummer
Is Turbo Blue still out there?? or 76 race fuel ??
I honestly don't know.I don't hear about it being sold around here.
I have a question kinda unrelated to this video but I really need help here, I have 24 crf 250rx that I had wrecked and damaged the right fork tubes (inner and outer) problem I’m having is what can I interchange with the outer tube I saw a 2017 crf250r tube for a good price looks exactly the same but idk if it’ll work if there’s a slight change in the tube I know the 2017-23 crf 450s would work aswell 2018-23 crf250 are the same but what’s different about the 2017 tube? It looks the same
Hello. I checked partzilla. It will let you know what all years and models the parts fit. It does look like the 450r and 250r have the same outer tube till around 2017. Here is a link to this info www.partzilla.com/product/honda/51410-MKE-A01?ref=29b904c63b9da17d325d004647e996ac956f0036
I checked that out and saw it’ll fit a 2017 450 but I didn’t see a 2017 250, does the 2017 have different fork length or diameter than the 450? Another thing I wanna point out is in the listing I saw on eBay has a different part number but looks the SAME I don’t understand part number is 51410-krn-b11, like could you swap the 2017 250 fork onto a 2017 450 cuz so this would work onna 2024?
@@cheetomoto8375 the 2017 CRF450r was all new bike in that year. The crf250r didnt get these all new bike changes till 2018. Thats why the 2017 crf250r has different forks.
Yes I’ve been doing sum research the 2017 crf250 is basicly the same as 2016 which Honda added 5mm in length to the upper tube that yr but still had the air fork till 2018 but let’s say you have a 2017 250 could you swap say 2021-23 250/450 fork internals into that fork tube? Is it the same tube different internals or did they completely change tubes and internals for 2018
@@cheetomoto8375 I dont know. If the part number is different that means there is something different about the part.
Octane rating has nothing to do with flame front speed.
Hello. I'm not a expert on it (more of a greasy mechanic). I only based that off the article with the sportbike that produced better HP with 87 vs 93. They claimed it was due to 87 burning quicker in the high revving bike. Maybe flame front was the wrong word to describe it. After doing some research it appears you are correct, the flame front speed is independent from the fuels burn rate.
Good info. Where you work in FL?
Thanks. I'm In parrish
@@UpAllNight91 Nice. I'm in Bradenton. Any interest in doing some work on my rm250 2t?
@@MrBigblacksock Sure! Shoot me a email at upallnight91@hotmail.com so we can exchange phone numbers.
Ethanol free is always better if the octane is the same, ethanol 93 octane pump gas dose not make more power
I'm not a expert on it but my mustang made more power on E15 than it did with none ethanol. And E85 is popular in the mustang world for producing more HP. I do know ethanol needs to be ran a little richer, depending on the blend. So when comparing by volume it may have less energy but when jetted accordingly it seems to make more power.
@@UpAllNight91 in forced induction e85 absolutely is because it cools the intake temp down and run more boost and timing
E85 can add 45 HP to a naturally aspired mustang coyote. I don't think cooler intake and timing alone can add 45 HP
Doing a little research on this I am finding out ethanol contains more oxygen. So that might explain it.
@@UpAllNight91 ok? But regardless we are not talking about running e85 in a yz250
Chilled to 43 degrees ? Plasma spark plug capacitor RUclips video
I'm sorry, I dont understand
If u have to fat of squish it will detonate
Did you mean fat or alot?
@UpAllNight91 I was wondering that too 😂?
@@bunnyman6321 Bunnyman! Whats happening!
@@UpAllNight91a lot
@@JackMacdonald-ih3ht Ahh ok. Yeah I heave heard that but when putting heads together myself I haven't seen it helps any in reducing pinging. I have heard the theories but just haven't seen it myself
Higher octane always make more power sorry to burst your bubble tell that to car and motorcycle tuners as well Eric gorr one of the best in the business he will laugh if you say higher octane doesn’t make more power 😂
In my experience higher octane will only make more power when the motor needed it to run correctly. Taking a low compression motor that runs fine on 87 octane and pouring 93 in it will not make any more power.
I agree with that totally but for a example 90s cr125 could run 104+ octane stock same with yz125 they were definitely making more power running 104+ rather than 87 or 93 I have a 92 cr125 Eric Gorr did all the drag porting etc before he retired last year I had him set the phathead for c12 108 thing flys also have it paired with vforce4R and smartcarb sc2
@@benol9199 He retired, I didnt know that. Holy cow hes been around since like the 80s
usually these higher octane face fuels have a better blend of fuel and more energy. Thats usually where the extra power comes from.
Lead makes zero power. However it keeps the motor happy so you can crank up the compression and turn up the timing.
What's race "feel" or pump "feel" 😂
Hahahah!!! Right, I got Carmichael beat
None of my 2 strokes have pinged off pump gas even my 06 YZ250 with an almost new cylinder and a D piston. 02 kx250, 99 kx250, 01 cr250, etc. original head on the Yamaha doesn’t seem to be a good design I fould plugs all the time till I switched it out to an apex SX dome after replacing way too many parts for no reason hoping to believe they know what they’re doing, it definitely has a way fatter rip off the grip and has zero jetting issue like before I’m on the same plug since I put it in and the top end I have now is around 80 hours I checked and it looks brand new still with zero blow by I’m gonna change it anyways obviously very soon. I rode that thing in the snow in high elevation all the way to the desert and such no change in jetting the top end looks new still on pump gas lol. The stock head squish/design just sucks.
The 06 gen YZ250 will absolutely grossly ping on pump fuel (here in FL at least) unless it's overly rich. Could explain your plugs not lasting with stock head.
@@keithalexander36nope richer jetting now then with the stock head and I’ve ran it 24:1 still on the same spark plug it’s the head design from Yamaha.
@@keithalexander36mine never pinged it just jetted like dogshit. If it pinged it would be Detonating and none of my 2 strokes I’ve ever owned have detonated.
The YZ head out of all the different brands big bores and small bores including 500s that head design is the only one that won’t tune to pump gas, that I personally have jetted. Zero issues with any bike except for that one stock from the factory.
My 2006 YZ250 (owned 2 of them) both of them pinged in stock form with 93 pump fuel at sea level. My 2006 KX250 also pinged on 93 pump fuel at sea level.
5:04 lmao what do it sound like say that again
Hahahaha! Oh man you and my brother both got me on that lol. :)
The worst fuel we have in England is 95😂
How much ethanol?
I have heard the fuel is not that great in England. Do you guys have access to leaded race fuel or is that not legal there?
@@danieldemayo6209 Thats a question I'm interested in knowing too.
Need lectron asap
Do you? I have good luck with the OEM carbs with some good jetting.
@@UpAllNight91 lectron better for thumbnail 😂
What is rec fuel
I think it’s rec 90 or 95. It’s for recreational vehicles and has no ethanol. Not all states have it at the pump :(
@@danieldemayo6209 Yes sir, recreational fuel.
Hm interesting I don’t get 93 pump with ethanol. I get 91 ethanol free.
@@donalddonaldson7211 Nothing wrong with it if you can get it in a high enough octane for your needs. Here in florida all I seem to find is 90.
Never use av gas
Why? It just has lead in it to reduce knocking/ping
I heard from a engine tuner years ago it was blended for high altitude and was not the best for our bikes. So I never tried it myself. But I have worked on people's bikes who use it and they usually don't show signs of detonation
With the distillation curve of that fuel. I cant imagine the throttle response is any good for a motorcycle.
@@ryanbollinger9279 Right.
Hahahaah. Gp is recalled and is blowing up engines
What is Gp?
@@UpAllNight91 vp autocorrected
@@barryoakes5976 I heard that! Thats crazy!
We use 50/50 premium pump fuel/ avgas100ll. Works mega! :)
Alot of shit fuel wrecking 2 strokes with all the added ethanol recently :/.
Right on. I never tried av gas but it does seems to do the trick based on what I see when I open the motors on the guys who do use it. Surely seems to keep the pinging under control.