Thanks man! You just addressed in a very well supported explanation my very dilemma. I just bought a Battery Tender and was seriously thinking of buying the DIN adapter but was also very doubtful about it. One new subscriber! 👍🏼
Couple notes about DIN charger. Actually, it is very useful (but quite expensive) thing. Yes, it's current limited to socket current (manual says 10A, forums says 5A). But we have 19Ah battery which normal charging current should be 1.9A (1/10 of capacity). When original BMW or Optimate charger connected, it wakes up electronics and start charging. All other (generic) DIN chargers needs to have ignition turned on before connection. When battery charged (or power loss happen), generic charger disconnects completely and can't start charging until ignition turned on again. Original chargers continue charge after power loss. Also, Optimate 4 can be left connected for entire winter - it will wake up with some intervals, charge battery and sleep again. So, CANBUS DIN charger is quite handy tool for regular use if not riding every day (like once a week/month) to keep battery charged. There is one possible danger situation with direct battery connection - some chargers can output higher voltages (like 18V) during some special charging cycles. Such voltage can permanently damage all electronics and BMW manual warns about this - they say that battery must be disconnected from bike before charging.
There are no chargers I've seen in the last three decades which output at 18 volts. Modern chargers made in the last ten years typically have a selector to choose the battery type, such as standard, AGM or lithium, as lithium batteries do require a higher charging voltage. Also, the Optimate 4 is not unique in being microprocessor controlled--all modern "smart" chargers made in the last two decades have this feature and should be left connected. Ultimately you can make the choice of DIN or SAE pigtail, but my argument for the pigtail is mostly about utility. The pigtail allows for other uses, such as connecting a mini-compressor while out on the road. And it avoids the potential issue of a CANBUS circuit kept inappropriately alive.
THanks. I am in the process of making this decision and you answered it for me. I was wondering if hooking up directly to the battery would interact with the canbus system and you said no. Thats good. Also if you hook into the canbus, that implies that a charger is waking up the canbus computer all the time and putting hours on that computer unnecessarily. Lastly, I just bought a used 2019 bmw 1250rt so all this canbus stuff is new to me. the din connector/canbus port says it supports 10amps in the manual and I bought a portable air compressor that should have worked. Plugged it into the din socket and it tripped the port after a fraction of a second even though its specs said it would use less than 10amp. This alone was driving me to put in a SAE pigtail direct to the battery to use it, so your conversation on using it for a charger fits right in.
I think I can explain your problem with the DIN port and the compressor. It's probably accurate that the DIN port will support up to 10 amps. However, the specs you find on the side of a box for a compressor or any device should be taken with a grain of salt. In particular, there will be the running amperage of the compressor and the start-up amperage. The latter is typically going to be more than the former because it takes additional electrical force to get the compressor motor initially running. Then, once it is running, the amperage will vary depending on the work the compressor is doing. The running amperage at 10PSI is going to be less than the running amperage at 40PSI. The manufacturer may publish an average of this running amperage or it may choose some other gauge. There are no rules. In addition, the accuracy of these specs in general is always questionable. So, your compressor probably draws more than 10 amps on start-up, and perhaps less than that while running.
I went the SAE route myself, except my connection for the ‘charger’ is under my seat. I also included an extra length of wire with a connector which can be attached instead of a charger. That way I can easily get charged from another bike while it’s running. (Yes, I know not to try and start the bike while connected, the gauge will not handle cranking amps!) BTW, what you call a charger is more properly called a battery minder, or keeper. Not all chargers are minders. A minder can be left attached for prolonged periods, or a New Hampshire Winter, and it will throttle back to a point where the battery is just kept fresh. I think it uses those Algo Rhythms you were talking about.
The trouble with chargers is that there are no standard terms, only marketing terms. The closest I can find to a standard term for the type of charger which is microprocessor controlled is "smart charger," so that's what I tend to use. Or, sometimes I'll just say "microprocessor controlled." if you are buying a new one today, most of them are this type anyway. I did do a video about this: ruclips.net/video/x8UMSEUYAhs/видео.html
I really enjoy your videos. I have a '14 R1200RT and have been using the CANBUS system for maintaining the battery using my Battery Tender. For me it's just easier to plug and leave it. When I recently replaced the 6 year old battery I added an SAE pigtail and secured the end under the seat. Now I have the best of both worlds and I like the SAE when I need more direct battery power.
Thanks for the info John. I just reconfigured the wiring on my 2012 RT1200 an hour ago! I bought the same battery that you had bought and I just did the final drive gear fluid change yesterday,following your advice! Not sure if I’ll do the transmission fluid change. My (pathetic) owners manual doesn’t make mention of it. It also says not to hook up the battery charger directly to the battery, which is just plane stupid. I use a deltran dual battery tender that I’ve had for many years. Bought my bike in 2012 as a demo bike with a trade in of a 2000 RT 1100. Wish we lived closer. I’m in southern Illinois. Take care
I use a 7 stage Projecta smart charger with solid anderson plug (weather proof). The Anderson plugs are very common and provide a very solid connection, as you can use thicker cables (I use 6mm cable). Works fantastic.
Looks like that Projecta brand must be an Australian thing? In the USA and I believe in most of Europe the SAE pigtail is the defacto standard for charging, and having that standard does allow for easy use of the plug for other adapters and things like an air compressor or heated gear.
I too would use the pigtail and so do most bikers in the UK. As you say it comes with the charger and is direct to the battery, much less to go wrong and has the additional advantages of plugging in accessories. 👍🏻
john - agree with everything you said on this video. another big big plus is that using sae allows for a much wider range of chargers. i use a microprocessor controlled unit that cost about $60 aud and it will do agm gel and lead acid at selectable charge rates. i can use it on other vehicles as well. those overpriced canbus units are a joke.
Thanks great info. I just got my first bmw and canbus charging was new to me. I think I will stick with the old pigtail. Just a bit worried because on some forum I read about this guy having lots of problems with warning notes on his screen and not being able to set the clock after disconnecting the battery and installing pigtail. Hopefully I can find an article that will talkabout this problem or maybe the guy just had some bad luck I don't know.
When you disconnect the battery the computer loses power, and you may need to reset some things. You won't do any permanent damage, though. Just make sure the connections are good and tight.
@@tinderboxarts ok great thanks. I just hope it is all stuff I can reset and not have to pay dealer to do. I guess I will find out soon enough. You are most helpful and really good videos. Thanks much !
I've seen those connected to the battery but the negative wire was connected to the bike's frame. Is that correct or does it have to be both cables directly at the battery? Love your videos, helped me a lot maintaining my bike myself.
No, you should connect to the positive and negative terminals of the battery only. That is obviously the most direct path and would avoid potential voltage drops, plus it avoids any interference with the bike's circuits and computers.
I have a 2005 RT,,, I agree with you or I should say I do the same as you connecting straight to the battery,only difference is the Optimate charger has a different connection socket(at the moment I,m clapping to the battery),,,, But honestly I dislike the idea of a live wire just hanging off the bike ,,yeah I know it can be fused ,,still its not something I like...Incidentally I believe there is a wiring loom connection somewhere around the headstock to allow connection straight into the canbus,(via the loom),, In my case I want to connect up a tyre (tire) monitoring system...any chance on doing a vid on this aspect of the RT.....please
The wire you refer to is the factory switched circuit for the GPS (satnav) system. It's located pretty deep under the dash and taped to the frame, as I recall. Keep in mind, you can't just attach anything you want to this circuit. It needs to be under the amperage limit, although I don't think that limit is published. A device with a similar draw to a GPS would be fine. And, good idea for a video--I'll get to it!
I have a bmw1200rs I have found the accessory canbus connector, but won’t work without ignition key. And idea where the canbus onboard socket would be located? Thank you in advance
I'm not sure what you are asking. There is (on the RT, anyway) a switched connection under the dash for GPS or similar devices. (See this video ruclips.net/video/yvOj9dS97TQ/видео.html ). Maybe that's what you found. I'm not familiar with the RS model enough to know if it has a DIN socket. It may not.
Seems like you really know what your talking about, have this CanBus system on my Indian FTR 1200 model and wanted to change my rear turn signals but everyone is telling me not to because I can damage this system, is this true ? I know I might need an equalizer to make them work properly but could I damage the system? The dealership said I could void my warranty by changing over
The only way you'll damage the system is if you hack into the wiring willy-nilly. Just think of the CANBUS computer as a high-tech fuse box, which is really all it is. The difference is that each circuit is monitored by the computer over various wiring, so you can't just cut and splice wires like you might with a conventional system. If you purchase third party turn signals try to find some that are pre-wired for the factory connector. If none exist, you may still be able to re-purpose the factory turn signal harness. I'm not familiar with that particular bike, so one thing you have to determine is if the bike came with LED lights, in which case the CANBUS computer will be expecting low-draw bulbs and you can replace the factory with other LED bulbs and probably be fine. If the bike came with incandescent bulbs, you need to find LED replacements that have a built-in resistance to mimic the incandescent bulbs. Another item is if the bike has a flasher/blinker relay or if the CANBUS computer provides that function with a ground somewhere. If it came with LEDs it's probably the latter. Other than that you just need to replicate the factory resistance values in the circuit and it should work fine. If you can find a third party that packages the turn signals specifically for the bike they will have done this research already and will likely provide the correct harness connector so it will be plug and play.
I was just watching a canbus video that was explaining what it was and can you change incandescent bulbs to led. The guy indicated that the leds use less current and typically have less resistance through them so the can bus computer might flag an issue with the lights. he then said that the led bulb companies have introduced added resistance in the path to look like the old bulbs and the can system thinks its the same. he said make sure you get bulbs with this feature.
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Thanks man! You just addressed in a very well supported explanation my very dilemma. I just bought a Battery Tender and was seriously thinking of buying the DIN adapter but was also very doubtful about it. One new subscriber! 👍🏼
Couple notes about DIN charger. Actually, it is very useful (but quite expensive) thing. Yes, it's current limited to socket current (manual says 10A, forums says 5A). But we have 19Ah battery which normal charging current should be 1.9A (1/10 of capacity). When original BMW or Optimate charger connected, it wakes up electronics and start charging. All other (generic) DIN chargers needs to have ignition turned on before connection. When battery charged (or power loss happen), generic charger disconnects completely and can't start charging until ignition turned on again. Original chargers continue charge after power loss. Also, Optimate 4 can be left connected for entire winter - it will wake up with some intervals, charge battery and sleep again. So, CANBUS DIN charger is quite handy tool for regular use if not riding every day (like once a week/month) to keep battery charged.
There is one possible danger situation with direct battery connection - some chargers can output higher voltages (like 18V) during some special charging cycles. Such voltage can permanently damage all electronics and BMW manual warns about this - they say that battery must be disconnected from bike before charging.
There are no chargers I've seen in the last three decades which output at 18 volts. Modern chargers made in the last ten years typically have a selector to choose the battery type, such as standard, AGM or lithium, as lithium batteries do require a higher charging voltage. Also, the Optimate 4 is not unique in being microprocessor controlled--all modern "smart" chargers made in the last two decades have this feature and should be left connected. Ultimately you can make the choice of DIN or SAE pigtail, but my argument for the pigtail is mostly about utility. The pigtail allows for other uses, such as connecting a mini-compressor while out on the road. And it avoids the potential issue of a CANBUS circuit kept inappropriately alive.
Don't forget the possibility of connecting an air compressor "on the road".
The SAE comes in real handy in such a situation..
Take care,
Ed.
Good point--I've had to do this, too!
Perfect video. I bought a used R1200RT and wanted to confirm what was hanging off the bike
THanks. I am in the process of making this decision and you answered it for me. I was wondering if hooking up directly to the battery would interact with the canbus system and you said no. Thats good. Also if you hook into the canbus, that implies that a charger is waking up the canbus computer all the time and putting hours on that computer unnecessarily. Lastly, I just bought a used 2019 bmw 1250rt so all this canbus stuff is new to me. the din connector/canbus port says it supports 10amps in the manual and I bought a portable air compressor that should have worked. Plugged it into the din socket and it tripped the port after a fraction of a second even though its specs said it would use less than 10amp. This alone was driving me to put in a SAE pigtail direct to the battery to use it, so your conversation on using it for a charger fits right in.
I think I can explain your problem with the DIN port and the compressor. It's probably accurate that the DIN port will support up to 10 amps. However, the specs you find on the side of a box for a compressor or any device should be taken with a grain of salt. In particular, there will be the running amperage of the compressor and the start-up amperage. The latter is typically going to be more than the former because it takes additional electrical force to get the compressor motor initially running.
Then, once it is running, the amperage will vary depending on the work the compressor is doing. The running amperage at 10PSI is going to be less than the running amperage at 40PSI. The manufacturer may publish an average of this running amperage or it may choose some other gauge. There are no rules. In addition, the accuracy of these specs in general is always questionable. So, your compressor probably draws more than 10 amps on start-up, and perhaps less than that while running.
Excellent information. I use my SAE for my heated vest and a tire pump.
I went the SAE route myself, except my connection for the ‘charger’ is under my seat. I also included an extra length of wire with a connector which can be attached instead of a charger. That way I can easily get charged from another bike while it’s running. (Yes, I know not to try and start the bike while connected, the gauge will not handle cranking amps!)
BTW, what you call a charger is more properly called a battery minder, or keeper. Not all chargers are minders. A minder can be left attached for prolonged periods, or a New Hampshire Winter, and it will throttle back to a point where the battery is just kept fresh. I think it uses those Algo Rhythms you were talking about.
The trouble with chargers is that there are no standard terms, only marketing terms. The closest I can find to a standard term for the type of charger which is microprocessor controlled is "smart charger," so that's what I tend to use. Or, sometimes I'll just say "microprocessor controlled." if you are buying a new one today, most of them are this type anyway. I did do a video about this: ruclips.net/video/x8UMSEUYAhs/видео.html
I really enjoy your videos. I have a '14 R1200RT and have been using the CANBUS system for maintaining the battery using my Battery Tender. For me it's just easier to plug and leave it. When I recently replaced the 6 year old battery I added an SAE pigtail and secured the end under the seat. Now I have the best of both worlds and I like the SAE when I need more direct battery power.
That's actually not a bad idea if you use the CANBUS charger to add an $8 SAE pigtail so you have the option if you need it.
Thanks for the info John. I just reconfigured the wiring on my 2012 RT1200 an hour ago! I bought the same battery that you had bought and I just did the final drive gear fluid change yesterday,following your advice! Not sure if I’ll do the transmission fluid change. My (pathetic) owners manual doesn’t make mention of it. It also says not to hook up the battery charger directly to the battery, which is just plane stupid. I use a deltran dual battery tender that I’ve had for many years. Bought my bike in 2012 as a demo bike with a trade in of a 2000 RT 1100. Wish we lived closer. I’m in southern Illinois. Take care
Glad the videos helped!
I use a 7 stage Projecta smart charger with solid anderson plug (weather proof). The Anderson plugs are very common and provide a very solid connection, as you can use thicker cables (I use 6mm cable). Works fantastic.
Looks like that Projecta brand must be an Australian thing? In the USA and I believe in most of Europe the SAE pigtail is the defacto standard for charging, and having that standard does allow for easy use of the plug for other adapters and things like an air compressor or heated gear.
I too would use the pigtail and so do most bikers in the UK. As you say it comes with the charger and is direct to the battery, much less to go wrong and has the additional advantages of plugging in accessories. 👍🏻
That's good to know--I wasn't sure how prevalent the pigtail is in the UK. On this side of the pond it's one of the first items installed on a bike.
I added a MagCode port to my bike. Is weatherproof and never have to fumble with a plug.
another excelent piece, both options well described and very balanced
john - agree with everything you said on this video. another big big plus is that using sae allows for a much wider range of chargers. i use a microprocessor controlled unit that cost about $60 aud and it will do agm gel and lead acid at selectable charge rates. i can use it on other vehicles as well. those overpriced canbus units are a joke.
Very helpful, thank you.
makes so much sense......now i know what leads to buy for my bike charging! Tx!
Thanks really helpful, I have just pruchased a BMW and wondered if you had to use the DIN connector.
Thanks great info. I just got my first bmw and canbus charging was new to me. I think I will stick with the old pigtail. Just a bit worried because on some forum I read about this guy having lots of problems with warning notes on his screen and not being able to set the clock after disconnecting the battery and installing pigtail. Hopefully I can find an article that will talkabout this problem or maybe the guy just had some bad luck I don't know.
When you disconnect the battery the computer loses power, and you may need to reset some things. You won't do any permanent damage, though. Just make sure the connections are good and tight.
@@tinderboxarts ok great thanks. I just hope it is all stuff I can reset and not have to pay dealer to do. I guess I will find out soon enough. You are most helpful and really good videos. Thanks much !
I've seen those connected to the battery but the negative wire was connected to the bike's frame. Is that correct or does it have to be both cables directly at the battery? Love your videos, helped me a lot maintaining my bike myself.
No, you should connect to the positive and negative terminals of the battery only. That is obviously the most direct path and would avoid potential voltage drops, plus it avoids any interference with the bike's circuits and computers.
I have a 2005 RT,,, I agree with you or I should say I do the same as you connecting straight to the battery,only difference is the Optimate charger has a different connection socket(at the moment I,m clapping to the battery),,,, But honestly I dislike the idea of a live wire just hanging off the bike ,,yeah I know it can be fused ,,still its not something I like...Incidentally I believe there is a wiring loom connection somewhere around the headstock to allow connection straight into the canbus,(via the loom),, In my case I want to connect up a tyre (tire) monitoring system...any chance on doing a vid on this aspect of the RT.....please
The wire you refer to is the factory switched circuit for the GPS (satnav) system. It's located pretty deep under the dash and taped to the frame, as I recall. Keep in mind, you can't just attach anything you want to this circuit. It needs to be under the amperage limit, although I don't think that limit is published. A device with a similar draw to a GPS would be fine. And, good idea for a video--I'll get to it!
This video helped me in making a decision ( Also saved me about 90$ - I decided not to buy the Optimate Canbus charger )
Glad it was helpful!
I have a bmw1200rs I have found the accessory canbus connector, but won’t work without ignition key. And idea where the canbus onboard socket would be located? Thank you in advance
I'm not sure what you are asking. There is (on the RT, anyway) a switched connection under the dash for GPS or similar devices. (See this video ruclips.net/video/yvOj9dS97TQ/видео.html ). Maybe that's what you found. I'm not familiar with the RS model enough to know if it has a DIN socket. It may not.
Seems like you really know what your talking about, have this CanBus system on my Indian FTR 1200 model and wanted to change my rear turn signals but everyone is telling me not to because I can damage this system, is this true ? I know I might need an equalizer to make them work properly but could I damage the system? The dealership said I could void my warranty by changing over
The only way you'll damage the system is if you hack into the wiring willy-nilly. Just think of the CANBUS computer as a high-tech fuse box, which is really all it is. The difference is that each circuit is monitored by the computer over various wiring, so you can't just cut and splice wires like you might with a conventional system. If you purchase third party turn signals try to find some that are pre-wired for the factory connector. If none exist, you may still be able to re-purpose the factory turn signal harness. I'm not familiar with that particular bike, so one thing you have to determine is if the bike came with LED lights, in which case the CANBUS computer will be expecting low-draw bulbs and you can replace the factory with other LED bulbs and probably be fine. If the bike came with incandescent bulbs, you need to find LED replacements that have a built-in resistance to mimic the incandescent bulbs. Another item is if the bike has a flasher/blinker relay or if the CANBUS computer provides that function with a ground somewhere. If it came with LEDs it's probably the latter. Other than that you just need to replicate the factory resistance values in the circuit and it should work fine. If you can find a third party that packages the turn signals specifically for the bike they will have done this research already and will likely provide the correct harness connector so it will be plug and play.
I was just watching a canbus video that was explaining what it was and can you change incandescent bulbs to led. The guy indicated that the leds use less current and typically have less resistance through them so the can bus computer might flag an issue with the lights. he then said that the led bulb companies have introduced added resistance in the path to look like the old bulbs and the can system thinks its the same. he said make sure you get bulbs with this feature.
Thank
Done...👍