Old Machine, Modern Surface Finish - Can It Be Done?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 май 2023
- Not every machine shop has a modern CNC hone, so does that mean the proper surface finish for today's piston rings is out of reach?
Watch as this old Sunnen CV-616 creates a beautiful, modern surface finish by utilizing diamond abrasives, a profilometer and the TraceBoss software.
#engine #cylinderblock #honing 
Авто/Мото
I believe WJ has said "a good machinist can make perfect parts on a bad machine. A machine operator can make junk parts on a perfect machine"
So true!
Absolutely true! I own a small job shop with no CNC machines. The equipment I have is old, but my machinist is about the same age as the equipment, so all things are equal. Steven Edwards makes some of the most amazing and beautiful parts that look like they came off of an assembly line!
Great video.
Yes, quality can be had with The Old Machines.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks!
Great stuff! Especially for the shop that doesn’t have the capital for a quarter million dollar machine, but has individuals capable of exacting work.
Thanks!
Lake Speed Jr., this is a fantastic video. Thank you very much for posting this.
Thanks!
Finding someone like this is pretty darn hard in today's world.
SO.... Great work!!
Shows open mindedness to new tech (stones/brushes/measurement) ... and probably some trial and error in the to get it there (hard earned experience).
Absolutely! The measuring tools make all the difference in getting the process dialed in.
I'm in the trade since 1976... sure have seen a lot of changes over the years. I wouldn't have guessed that you could go from 120 to finish in 2 steps plus a plateau brush. Always learning in this business
I would love to see a comparison of an old school engine shop. Them using the standard way of getting within .001” and honing from there to fit the pistons with no real consideration to surface finish, and then compare against using a system like this and see what the leak down, break in period, and power numbers look like.
That would be a fun test
Experience and skills. Well done
Thanks!
How about hand (drill) honing with vitrified stones like Sunnen AN? That would be nice to see?
I was going to ask that. Almost 40 years ago I learned on the Sunnen CK-10. Now I have the Hand Drill Sunnen AN. I bet If one was to creep up on the spec, Great results can be had.
Do you go back far enough to remember hand honing in a parts washer with a 400 stone. This is star wars compared to those days!
nice work guys
Thanks!
I have witnessed with a Profilometer, Bore dial indicator, Micrometer, ect with proper tooling, patience one can even achieve
.0001 all four corners bore distortion and correct cyl wall finish with hand made suspensed by spring drill hone with Torque plate.
Something 1 Muskogee and 2 Tulsa Machines failed to achieve.
Just saying it can be done, not my choice of time spent but definitely witnessed and used said engine for one of the racecars in a bind at the 11th hour. 2.0l went 12.1 at 115mph in a 3600lb car on 18 psi of boost from a small td06.
Ran for a full 3 season and 15000 miles before tear down and them cyl walls beautiful. Except for the window from the failed water meth controller hydrolocking cyl #4 but hey cyl walls are beautiful..
Always thanks for Lake jr, Total seal and all from PRI!!!!!.
Thanks!
@TotalSeal...
Question(s): Those three strokes with the brushes, takes the "break in" process away from ring running in the bore to do the work and possible degradation of parts or risking glaze... and presents a truly finished bore for the rings to ride in?
What would you expect to see are the RPK #'s after, say a couple of good dyno runs following this hone work? (much change or not??)
Are these Mazda blocks hard? (say, compared to a Dart-SHP casting)
Actually, the three strokes with the brush does not take away the break-in or risks glazing. The Rpk delivered by the correct use of the brush, improves the break-in process. Think of it like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, you don't want the cylinder too rough or too smooth. This process makes it just right.
In regards to the Rpk after break-in, we have a video coming out in a few months that will show exactly what happens to the surface finish from honing, to assembly, to break-in and after running.
Also, the Mazda blocks are softer than the Dart SHP blocks.
Would this more modern method of honing and thinner rings be beneficial on an old motor that won’t be used in high performance application? I’m considering rebuilding a Ford 300 I6 for an old pickup that I own, but would like to make some modest improvements over the stock motor.
Absolutely. Modern honing and thinner rings make engines run cooler and live longer.
Great stuff!! Lake, what tablet and software are you using? Can I use a Mac tablet? Thanks
That’s a Windows Surface. The TraceBoss software is PC only.
Sir how we make different cross hatch angle
On a Sunnen, it requires changing the pulleys.
There might be some flaws in the assumptions leading up to my question. If so, feel free to correct them.
I have been taught that cast rings require a fairly coarse honing in order to seal correctly. And that, by nature, the break in process with that ring and cylinder finish combination is a destructive one. The rings and cross hatch create their own “plateau” during break in. It works, but you have knowingly shortened the life of the rings (perhaps the cylinders too) from day one.
So, let’s say I have an engine from the 1950s or early 60s (in my case an early Chevy inline 6). Cast rings are the only thing widely available for those ring dimensions.
Can a guy skip all the destruction of the coarse cylinder finish, and still get cast rings to seat with a cylinder that has more of a plateau honing like you have here? Understand that you at optimizing the cylinder for a very different ring (thinner and lower tension). But is it a myth that you NEED lots of roughness to seat an older-style, thick, cast ring?
Thanks for the question. It is Chrome faced rings that require the coarse finish for proper break-in. Cast rings (without a Chrome face coating) can use a plateau finish, but Chrome faced rings can not.
Could be wrong but those didn’t look like diamond holders? Any more info on the diamond holders and abrasives used?
Those are 120 grit Diamonds for the roughing operation and 600 grit Diamonds for the plateau strokes.
@@TotalSeal Who are you getting them from. thank you
Where are you getting those diamond stones from ?
Those are Sunnen diamonds
@@TotalSeal would you happen to have the sunnen part numbers? I can’t seem to find them in my catalog
@@ricklaws9059 Since the hone is RF Engine's we don't know the part numbers.
If you don’t measure then you never know.
Absolutely!
Ignorance is bliss haha
LMFAO!!!! check your ego and you're microprocessor controlled machine at the door.