Guys this is awesome information. First time ever on RUclips and the internet in general when people truly know what they are talking about and where every detail is correct. I happen to know people working on race engines that would never start a new or rebuilt engine with new camshafts. As you say, if the thing does not fire right away the camshafts are toast. They would do the start attempt and do three 20 min steps on the dyno for the rings, then they would let it cool down and install the camshafts, then do the camshafts breakin as you described, just at a slightly higher rpm haha, the engines were Formula One Cosworth DFV/DFZ in the V8 n/a golden era, and those folks, based in Switzerland, at some point maintained the entire F1 grid except Ferrari. The reason why you want some rpm is to lighten the load on the tip of the cams, due to the valve train inertia. Of course you never want the valves to actually float but that’s the idea, giving some speed lighten the load on the tip and avoids galling of the new surfaces. If you think about it, the cam-to-tappet interface is a hairline, and if you were to calculate the pressure per unit-surface on that hairline times the width of the cam, you would discover that this tiny area is by far the highest loaded on the engine, thus the extra precautions.
Exactly. The camshaft live in what is called boundary lubrication because of those high contact pressures. This is why the chemistry of the oil is another crucial part of this process.
My engineer mentor always told me that - A rebuilt or overhauled engine is not 'right' until you are sitting on the freeway doing 100 clicks smoothly with no overheating and all gauges in the green. Don't slap it together and just do a 20 minute cursory run and call it good, until you give it that true load that only a good drive can give, Hilly terrain is the best, try a route that takes you up multiple hills to give the engine a good load cycle.
Another trick I've used is to install only the outer valve springs for cam break-in. This reduces the load on the lobes during the critical period. Then install the inners, reset lash and you're good to go with the rest of the break-in.
I read an old article maybe 20yrs ago. It was on motorcycle engine break in. I specifically remember this one thing. They talked about riding the bike and brining the rpm up mid to high range and letting the engine brake on decel. They said the opposite load on the engine when "engine braking" can force those ring into the cylinders. So I did this on a 306 I had in a fox body. I had that engine for over 11yrs. Every year it saw it times on the 1/4 and street duty. I had 180psi cold on compression test. The engine had total seal ring package also
Hello, Im refreshing my engine to say with new bearings and rings. when I put it back together do I immediately get the rpm above 1500(internals are what was in it) and flutter it through the rpm’s not letting it drop below 1500? when I’m breaking the rings in with driving do I let the truck down shift (as in keep it in drive) when accelerating, or do I keep it in one gear and do pulls in one gear with the column shifter? Some people say it’s bad to let the engine slow down the truck sense its an automatic. You also said to get it up to 50 and slow down as quick as you can. Is there a certain speed to slow down to as in using the breaks, letting it coast, or using the column shifter to engine break it? When floored it shifts at 4k. I haven’t seen it ever shift above 4k rpm. It’s a 96 f-150 with a 5.0 efi, sorry I’m new to this and it’s my first time ever tearing into an engine and I want everything to go as good as possible.
Thank you both this is one of the best videos I’ve watched, very valuable information about break in. I’ve been braking in engines for 35 years and I took away very valuable information that I wasn’t necessarily doing in the past.
Things that you said like putting the pressure on the rings. Well to maximize that pressure on the range you need to have a wide open throttle. Why. Because that's what makes volumetric efficiency. And that is what raises dynamic compression. Thank you guys you are the best you are the very best I listen to you all the time I am a subscriber. Former racer drag racing circle track. Former Phantom USMC jet Mechanic. Please continue to explain to explain all the details.
My son and I rebuilt an inline 6 4.0 Jeep engine and went through the process as described in the manual which is just like this video. As soon as it lit off, it went straight to 2500 rpm for about 30 minutes with small variations in rpm. After that, we hit the road and thankfully it was a manual so the engine got to go through the rpm range several times under full throttle keeping the cylinder pressures up AND decelerate from higher rpms in gear which is good for the rings as well. Turned out to be a really good engine. I still get text messages from the owner saying how good it runs and doesn't use any oil to this day. Good machine work, good parts, good assembly, and good break in does make a difference.
You know there will be many that say your procedure is all wrong but those of us with street engines are at the mercy of whoever we are watching at the time. In your case, Don has done it the old school way and learned from his failures and Lake works for and developes the piston rings. In the end, failure is expensive and I just choose to trust their procedure. It worked for me.
I always ran the oil pump a few minutes with an electric drill first on rebuilt Ford engines. In all these years I never lost a cam or lifters. Either I did the break in correctly or just had good luck. But today it is roller cams only for me. 😊
About 10yrs ago I had an engine shop rebuild my GM 4.3L vortec engine/auto trans. Their instructions for break-in was: Upon start up keep above 2k rpm for 20 minutes straight. Then immediately go out and drive it for 30min - 1hr at varying high rpm hits but downshift into second gear to engine brake to rolling stop as many times as possible causing high intake vacuum to help seat the rings. Is this a correct theory? and if so would that same procedure be recommended for a newly remanufactured GM 5.3L ls stock engine?
Hey guys, for a new flat tap cam and turbo what to do when the turbo manufacturer say to let engine idle, first start, at least 5 mins AND prime engine oil before (assuming cranking) ? Never be able to find a correct answer neither of the cam maker, or turbo would disclose data. Maybe because it's better to break them separate ? Thanks for your time, awesome work.
when i did mine i used a large trailer with a front end loader on it, drove around for a few miles under heavy throttle. (think it was a 908M dozer iirc)
Key take away is Low viscosity oil for better flow Put load on the motor by flooring it 6 to 9 times About 200 miles into my new motor so far, going to change the oil and run lighter oil
You guys are both cool dudes! You've actually got it backwards. We break in our engines in the car or truck. The most important thing is use oil with no friction modifiers during cam and ring break in.
@@hotrodray6802 Thats true... But techniques that are proven work on any engine. I know not everyone has that kind of information or technology available to them, but we r willing to share with people.
Interesting that this is almost diametrically opposite what most car makers recommend, but directly in line with what aircraft engine makers like Lycoming and Continental recommend. It is almost like the car makers don’t want your engine to last a long time…
Car engine manufacturers run the engines on dyno before they leave the factory (so I've been told) so they are already mostly broken in. But if rebuilt it's a different story
I fully understand the ring process. My question is what to do when I have new heads and springs too? The springs need to be heat cycled before run hard? warm up once and cool off then do the 2nd gear pulls and let the engine decel normally?
How would you break in a home standby generator engine? They (air cooled) run at a constant 3600 rpms and measured in hours not miles. And should a "break in oil" like Driven be used for one or two oil changes??
Breaking in a new engine is like packing bearings,no matter how you do it its always wrong according to everyone else,lol, you could be certified from the University of bearing packing with a Masters on it and it would still be wrong.
With some engines you really have to give the engine high pressure and then high vacuum. (That's what these pulls are for) For example on a BMW M1000RR it has one Piston ring less in the Motor and if you don't break it in with high gear pulls it will burn oil like crazy
Do you recommend the same break-in procedure for a small engine? I have a new Honda GX100 and a Lifan 78cc that both need to be broken in. Same procedure with rpm modified for the smaller engine? I would think a small engine like these running a good break in oil would need 25 miles or so for a full break in prior to switching out to regular oil. What do you think?
Getting ready to do this saturday . fresh hone , total seal max seal rings , line to line piston skirt coating . i fired it up already . ran hot as i was told it would . ran it for 10 minutes . shut it down. After verifying timing . fresh oil and filter in . ready to do some runs up and dpwn the street tp seat the rings .
Hey can you settle an argument my dad and I are having. I have a recently rebuilt dodge 318 with fresh piston and rings and new lunati flat tappet cam and my dad and I are arguing over whether or not to put a little bit of oil down each cylinder before the first start. I said the cylinder should be dry and the only oil or lube is what was coated on the walls and rings during install of the piston and rings. He said that that it needs additional lubrication since it will not get oil right away for the first few revolutions during the engine startup and running. I believe it's going to cause glazing, he believes it will wear down and damage the rings quickly due to no oil being present. The only reason this is an issue is, is the engine came back from the machine shop about three weeks ago and we're just getting around to installing it and that the oil that was on the piston, rings and walls may have dissipated during that time. Am I right? or is he right? or Are we're both wrong? Thank you for your time.
Great question. There is plenty of oil splashing up from the crankcase, so you don’t need to put oil down the spark plug hole. Only bad things can happen from putting oil on top of the pistons!
Last SBC I built while doing cam break in the header paint started bellowing to point it was hard to see the engine and summit sent me the wrong sending unit for my digital temp gauge so it was reading 260+ I was totally horrified but I kept going because it didn't feel that hot I did not dare to stop the break in but all was good another flat tappet lived through break in. I don't think it hurt it was a Howards cam. I lost a comp 292 like 20+ years ago that sucked wiped out cam and engine full of filings. Time start all over. I did hear comp had subbed out there cams and got a bunch batches of soft cams a machine shop went through a bunch of 280 magnums in a row but that's what the guy HAD to have.
I was also taught this procedure in the 70's, but we always leave the car in 1st or 2nd gear and let the engine slow down the car, creates strong vacuum to draw oil up onto the rings.
Would this break-in procedure also work on a GY6 150cc scooter engine? It's a brand new scooter and I want to do things properly for long life and performance.
Thanks for all the good info my question is when breaking in a methanol engine should I use the lean out valve to help build temperature quicker in a race only situation I've always ran the engine at 2500 for 20 min recheck valves and go racing .before now I used injection with a gas primer so the 1sr 20 min were on gas..now with alcohol carb I will be running on methanol for break in ..any tips that may help would be highly appreciated thanks again for the straight advice
Great question. In our other video on dyno break-in, we covered leaning out the engine when using methanol. You can run the engine leaner on Methanol when you are not running the engine under full load, so that is very helpful to build temperature and reduce fuel wash.
Quick question fellas, I Just rebuilt my 5.0 coyote motor (forged internals, etc). I understand that I’m supposed to use break-in oil for 300-500 miles. But am I supposed to use regular conventional oil for additional miles or is it safe to go back to the regular oil I use??
Hello Lake. I just had my engine rebuilt and the mechanic put Synthetic Amsoil 5w-50 ATV/UTV oil in it. Said to use that for break in. After seeing this video I’m concerned. Should I dump it and refill with a break in oil? Can you suggest what type of oil or brand? It’s a 2021 Yamaha 999cc UTV engine Thank you.
If you buy a new car off the lot but it already has 5, 10 or 20 miles on the odometer, would it still be beneficial to do this procedure for the rings or is the opportunity to really break in the rings with maximum effectiveness and benefit already gone? Keep in mind this car was also driven at low rpm’s to load and unload it for transport several times, idling for who knows how long. Would this have caused damage to the cam lobes or at the very least some pre-mature wearing?
Always good info, thanks, BUT, please address the forgotten? never talked about flat tappet break-in problem of engine/oil temperatures. Radiators and cooling systems are often not capable of keeping engine temperatures in a safe range, which in my opinion has everything to do with the oils ability to lubricate camshaft lobes and lifters during a break-in procedure, open cooling system versus closed coolant system is my go to. Thoughts?
If you have proper lifter/cam contact geometry and the correct oil, this procedure will work perfectly for a flat tappet engine. If the radiator can only handle 10 minutes at a time, then it is fine to repeat that cycle 2 to 3 times.
I have an LQ4 that has been completely rebuilt so new pistons, rings, cam, bearings, etc. My question is can I run the engine long enough at idle to get up to temp to top off the coolant and transmission without worrying about glazing the cylinders? Then take it out and do the break in pulls like the video?
never could understand why even some "pro's" can't get an engine to fire properly the first time... Get the spark happening near the right time before you ever put fuel in the thing! the timing light works at cranking speeds! then when you add fuel it goes vroom! no backfire, no nonsense..
How long should you run the break in oil? Should you change the initial oil and use break in oil again a second time for so many miles before going to your regular oil?
I have VW type 1 engine. It is flat tappet, but I bought some DLC coated tool steel lifters since I heard a lot of people were having a problem for a while. Is there any special procedures you would recommend for a set up like this?
Can you just rev it up to set the rings or would it be better to drive it? Only reason i ask is im in a very congested area and i dont think id have the space
Do you have any advice in relation to breaking in small engines like mowers? My plan was to briefly warm the oil and run the engine hard under load - changing oil every 10 mins or so (since there is no filtration) - Keen on your thoughts
What about the guys who don't have a bad ass engine to break in rings? What about air cooled Vtwins? Does anything change for breakin VS liquid cooled V8
I did 1200 miles on my new motor, not going past 4k rpms. It felt fine, but had a few hiccups. After I ran it to redline a few times now, it seems like it runs better. Is that just in my head or is there a reason?
Can you guys comment on the case where the engine is being broken in on a run stand? (ie minimal load on the engine as compared to the dyno or in-car methods) Thanks!
Thanks for the question. Because a run-in stand can’t apply load, we don’t recommend using a run stand to break-in an engine. They are fine for breaking in a can and checking for leaks, but rings need load to break-in properly, especially with thinner rings.
@@TotalSeal I'm sorry i beg to differ as when I load the engine on the start up stand and I run it to 2000 rpm for 20 minutes it is just as good as running it in the car driving around. You cannot push the motor too much driving around just the same as running on an engine stand.
With all the trouble with breaking in flat tappet lifters these days, would breaking the engine in with much lighter valve springs or even lower ratio lift rockers take some of the stress off of the cam lobes until the cam and lifters are broke in?
I just put your rings in my 2017 coyote mustang. Working out other issues currently and drove it a little bit but didn't floor it really, drove about 20km at normal acceleration. Should they still seat properly if i go out and put my foot down?
So what are thoughts on the new 10-10-10 method being published that showed less cam wear? run for 10, cool for 10, etc. Also when you are on load break in and not initial... should that be the same oil? I always read you change the initial oil then you do drive it gently for 500 miles.. with me I have a fresh built AOD and a fresh rear end that is supposed to be broken in . I know the rear has to be heat cycled like drive 20 miles then let it cool so I dont know if that means I can't run up the RPM a bit... has a 3000 converter too. The other thing is I'm rushing to get this done, would be great to start the engine soon being toward winter id probably use 5w30 anyway, but should I use like a moroso heating pad on the pan ? Thanks
The 10 - 10 - 10 is great for the camshaft, you just need to complete the break-in with load on the engine as described in the video. Essentially, you can sub the first 20 minutes of engine run time for the 10 - 10 - 10 if you have a flat tappet cam.
@@TotalSeal Thanks! I think I absolutely should use 5w 30 if I get my first start going here soon. getting cold in NY. My only concern is .. ring and pinion / carrier break in is like 100 miles before "hard acceleration" after the 10-15 mile warm up and cool down. Tranny is also fresh. but would a load count as say... Leaving it in first and bringing it up more gradual to 5000? still pushing the weight of the truck ? or is it about inertia? I just hope I'm not in a stalemate that one thing or the other will be properly broken in lol
@@TotalSeal Thanks.. makes me feel a bit more confident lol. not like im the first person to just build all the new parts at once so im sure its "ok" if not ideal
What do you recommend for oil change intervals during break in? I’ve heard that doing the first change at 500 is good, but I’ve also heard smaller intervals like 50, 100, 500. And for that matter at what point is it safe to switch to your standard running oil?
@@c_healy If you are running actual "break in oil" then also check with the oil manufacturer (I was just looking at DrivenRacing and they say 400 miles).
What if you run into an issue part way through the flat tappet cam break-in procedure? For example, you start to notice your engine temp climbing near the high end. I'm assuming we should stop everything, address the issue and then when the engine is cooled to normal operating temp, resume? Point being, is all lost if we can't get it done in one shot?
After the cam break in without a dyno and a flat tappet, do you keep the same 5w30 oil in the motor for the street break in? I'm getting a long block LA 318.
I have been enjoying and laerning from your videos i have a c153 int tractor motor fresh from machine shop waiting on new exhaust manifold how would you break in a tractor motor
Thanks for the comment! I’d follow the same procedure, but cut the RPM in half. 1,000 RPM is plenty for an old tractor engine. Do the 20 to 30 minute cam break-in, and then go drive the tractor to put some load on the engine (rings). Same procedure, just modified.
Your procedure for breaking in the engine on the dyno is running at 3000 RPM with about 75 ft lb of load that's great if the only speed you ever going to run that engine is 3000 RPM. And with somewhere between 70 and 100 ft lb of load. If you're going to use an engine in your car it's going to take at least five hundred miles of very driving so that the engine Brakes in at the varied speeds that you were going to actually drive the damn thing. It is far better to break in an engine in the car if you're going to use it in the car and motivate yourself from place to place at varying speeds and traffic conditions!
That's not the correct way to look at the break-in process. You are not trying to replicate what happens on the road. You are simply allowing the parts that run in contact with each other to mate. This procedure works great for that purpose.
For new cars with delivery miles, do you simply do the varying load pulls within the first few miles after delivery? What mileage range? At what mileage do you consider an engine fully broken in?
So there wouldn’t be an issue with breaking in the cam one day and the rings another day? Example would be on a circle track car where you couldn’t get out and make pulls until you got to the track that weekend.
Thanks for the great video, I recently built a LS2 engine with your Gapless top rings. I will be doing the break in with the engine in the car, I understand the process you spoke of above with driving and applying the load to the engine. My question is do I start the engine let it warm up and change the oil before the first drive or just go ahead and drive it? How long should the break in oil stay in the engine? I autocross my car when can I start racing the car and can I race it with the break in oil in the engine or do I have to wait till I change to regular oil? This is my first built engine and I am a little nervous about the break in and don't want to do anything that would damage it or reduce its life span. I also watched your videos on break in oil and looked at your analysis, I will be running Lucas 30Wt break in oil because it had all the green checkmarks and no red x's. I also purchased a fitting for the block and a fluid pump the pre-pressurize the engine with oil before the first start, I had planned on pressurizing it with the pump and slowly turning the engine over without the plugs in it, then installing the plugs and then starting it. Thanks for any advise
Great question. Start the car and bring the engine up to 2,000 RPM for 1 minute before driving the car. Follow the procedure in the video, and then change the break-in oil after 1 hour of engine run time.
So how do you get fuel and spark to the engine before you crank the engine? How do you make sure the first time the engine turns this is going to happen?
You can crank the engine with spark plugs removed to make sure there is fuel flow. You can even connect one spark plug and bump the started to make sure it sparks (just make sure to keep it away from the engine). That's the best way to know the engine has both fuel and spark before the initial start up.
@@TotalSeal does this do any damage to flat tappet cam shaft? I've been told you don't want to crank the engine much before starting. Thanks for the information
@@JohnScheppler you can bump the started on a flat tappet cam to prime the oil pump, fuel pump and check spark for about 10 to 15 seconds with no problems. We do that with all new flat tappet cam builds. You just don’t want to keep cranking on it for more than that.
Hi Lake, What if the car is like just a 1.3 liter with not that much torque to load the rings, should we still conservatively follow the 3,000 rpm and 30 minute run, or we should load it up with more torque (I don't know how to measure that without I dyno)? But I hope you get my point in breaking in little pony cars. 😄
And yet... Detroit pumped out millions of engines in the golden era of flat tappet cams, and every time the discussion of modern "break in" procedures comes up like this, that history does not get examined. Imagine an operation that needs something north of 70,000 lifters a week doing assembly in various locations: they had 25 minutes per engine [plus setup time] to certify ready for install? Not believable.
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I'd love to have Lake show us how you should break-in an standard car engine right from the dealer lot.
Totally agree. Always done how these guys describe. Never had an issue with multiple different engines.
Right on!
including a new diesel?
Guys this is awesome information. First time ever on RUclips and the internet in general when people truly know what they are talking about and where every detail is correct. I happen to know people working on race engines that would never start a new or rebuilt engine with new camshafts. As you say, if the thing does not fire right away the camshafts are toast. They would do the start attempt and do three 20 min steps on the dyno for the rings, then they would let it cool down and install the camshafts, then do the camshafts breakin as you described, just at a slightly higher rpm haha, the engines were Formula One Cosworth DFV/DFZ in the V8 n/a golden era, and those folks, based in Switzerland, at some point maintained the entire F1 grid except Ferrari. The reason why you want some rpm is to lighten the load on the tip of the cams, due to the valve train inertia. Of course you never want the valves to actually float but that’s the idea, giving some speed lighten the load on the tip and avoids galling of the new surfaces. If you think about it, the cam-to-tappet interface is a hairline, and if you were to calculate the pressure per unit-surface on that hairline times the width of the cam, you would discover that this tiny area is by far the highest loaded on the engine, thus the extra precautions.
Exactly. The camshaft live in what is called boundary lubrication because of those high contact pressures. This is why the chemistry of the oil is another crucial part of this process.
My engineer mentor always told me that - A rebuilt or overhauled engine is not 'right' until you are sitting on the freeway doing 100 clicks smoothly with no overheating and all gauges in the green. Don't slap it together and just do a 20 minute cursory run and call it good, until you give it that true load that only a good drive can give, Hilly terrain is the best, try a route that takes you up multiple hills to give the engine a good load cycle.
Another trick I've used is to install only the outer valve springs for cam break-in. This reduces the load on the lobes during the critical period.
Then install the inners, reset lash and you're good to go with the rest of the break-in.
That is a great tip!
I read an old article maybe 20yrs ago. It was on motorcycle engine break in. I specifically remember this one thing. They talked about riding the bike and brining the rpm up mid to high range and letting the engine brake on decel. They said the opposite load on the engine when "engine braking" can force those ring into the cylinders. So I did this on a 306 I had in a fox body. I had that engine for over 11yrs. Every year it saw it times on the 1/4 and street duty. I had 180psi cold on compression test. The engine had total seal ring package also
Hello, Im refreshing my engine to say with new bearings and rings. when I put it back together do I immediately get the rpm above 1500(internals are what was in it) and flutter it through the rpm’s not letting it drop below 1500? when I’m breaking the rings in with driving do I let the truck down shift (as in keep it in drive) when accelerating, or do I keep it in one gear and do pulls in one gear with the column shifter? Some people say it’s bad to let the engine slow down the truck sense its an automatic. You also said to get it up to 50 and slow down as quick as you can. Is there a certain speed to slow down to as in using the breaks, letting it coast, or using the column shifter to engine break it? When floored it shifts at 4k. I haven’t seen it ever shift above 4k rpm. It’s a 96 f-150 with a 5.0 efi, sorry I’m new to this and it’s my first time ever tearing into an engine and I want everything to go as good as possible.
Thank you both this is one of the best videos I’ve watched, very valuable information about break in. I’ve been braking in engines for 35 years and I took away very valuable information that I wasn’t necessarily doing in the past.
Thanks!
I'm sure your way weekend though, yes?
I love learning from well oiled nerds. Great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Things that you said like putting the pressure on the rings. Well to maximize that pressure on the range you need to have a wide open throttle. Why. Because that's what makes volumetric efficiency. And that is what raises dynamic compression. Thank you guys you are the best you are the very best I listen to you all the time I am a subscriber. Former racer drag racing circle track. Former Phantom USMC jet Mechanic. Please continue to explain to explain all the details.
Thanks!
I did this exact procedure on my LS6 this spring with BR30 oil, it worked great!
Thanks! It has worked great for us as well.
Many engine builders have told me to use a monoweight oil (30 mostly) on breakin, and I'm taking that advice onboard going forward
Did you do your pulls just in say second gear or did you go through gears?
I used this technique with my Jeep 4.0 and used driven break in oil. So far I’ve had zero issues thank you!!!
Thanks!
My son and I rebuilt an inline 6 4.0 Jeep engine and went through the process as described in the manual which is just like this video. As soon as it lit off, it went straight to 2500 rpm for about 30 minutes with small variations in rpm. After that, we hit the road and thankfully it was a manual so the engine got to go through the rpm range several times under full throttle keeping the cylinder pressures up AND decelerate from higher rpms in gear which is good for the rings as well. Turned out to be a really good engine. I still get text messages from the owner saying how good it runs and doesn't use any oil to this day. Good machine work, good parts, good assembly, and good break in does make a difference.
You know there will be many that say your procedure is all wrong but those of us with street engines are at the mercy of whoever we are watching at the time. In your case, Don has done it the old school way and learned from his failures and Lake works for and developes the piston rings. In the end, failure is expensive and I just choose to trust their procedure. It worked for me.
Thanks for the feedback!
Lake is one of about a half dozen people in the world considered to be the best lubrication experts.
I learned this procedure in tech school, 1973. Rings and cylinder finish has improved a lot. Thanks for the video.
Thanks!
So this is not needed now?
I always ran the oil pump a few minutes with an electric drill first on rebuilt Ford engines. In all these years I never lost a cam or lifters. Either I did the break in correctly or just had good luck. But today it is roller cams only for me. 😊
Thanks for sharing
You guys are the best. My knowledge is increasing so much thank you four explaining all this stuff
Thank you!
2:31 Pressure is the resistance of flow. ;)
Exactly!
About 10yrs ago I had an engine shop rebuild my GM 4.3L vortec engine/auto trans. Their instructions for break-in was: Upon start up keep above 2k rpm for 20 minutes straight. Then immediately go out and drive it for 30min - 1hr at varying high rpm hits but downshift into second gear to engine brake to rolling stop as many times as possible causing high intake vacuum to help seat the rings. Is this a correct theory? and if so would that same procedure be recommended for a newly remanufactured GM 5.3L ls stock engine?
sounds like exactly the procedure described in the video
Exactly what I needed!! Thanks for sending me this way!
Glad we could help!
Do you have advice for breaking in the engine on a portable generator? Should I use break in oil?
Hey guys, for a new flat tap cam and turbo what to do when the turbo manufacturer say to let engine idle, first start, at least 5 mins AND prime engine oil before (assuming cranking) ? Never be able to find a correct answer neither of the cam maker, or turbo would disclose data. Maybe because it's better to break them separate ? Thanks for your time, awesome work.
Thanks for the question. Break-in the cam first. Drain the oil. Then break-in the turbo.
@@TotalSeal Yes it's what I thought. Ideally cams and rings with "NOT a new turbo" then putting whatever new turbo.
Thanks again 👍.
when i did mine i used a large trailer with a front end loader on it, drove around for a few miles under heavy throttle. (think it was a 908M dozer iirc)
Great way to get the needed load for proper break in
@@TotalSealyet the manufacturer recommends not using a trailer until the engine is broken in.
Key take away is
Low viscosity oil for better flow
Put load on the motor by flooring it 6 to 9 times
About 200 miles into my new motor so far, going to change the oil and run lighter oil
You guys are both cool dudes! You've actually got it backwards. We break in our engines in the car or truck. The most important thing is use oil with no friction modifiers during cam and ring break in.
We are with you on the oil free of friction modifiers!
@@TotalSeal an old timer who used to have a mechanics shop for 50 yrs, taught me how to break in motor in the vehicle. 100 percent success...
@@Scubasteve22 Metallurgy, oil, and machining have changed over 50 years.
Stuff that worked for a spec 283 is not the idea for a 6.0 LS
@@hotrodray6802 Thats true... But techniques that are proven work on any engine. I know not everyone has that kind of information or technology available to them, but we r willing to share with people.
@@Scubasteve22 so use oil with no friction modifiers. So what are the procedures, oil change intervals?
Do you do the same even if you have new roller cam for the rings sake ?
Interesting that this is almost diametrically opposite what most car makers recommend, but directly in line with what aircraft engine makers like Lycoming and Continental recommend. It is almost like the car makers don’t want your engine to last a long time…
Thanks. It does make you wonder
Car engine manufacturers run the engines on dyno before they leave the factory (so I've been told) so they are already mostly broken in. But if rebuilt it's a different story
Is the break-in for the rings any different if the cylinder has Nikasil? Thanks
thanks for the tips guys ❤
Our pleasure!
I fully understand the ring process. My question is what to do when I have new heads and springs too? The springs need to be heat cycled before run hard? warm up once and cool off then do the 2nd gear pulls and let the engine decel normally?
When I'm driving new motor to put load on it for break in what rpm should I be at? Also how high should I bring the roms and for how long?
Does this apply to new cars or is it only for built engines? New car manuals say to baby the car
How would you break in a home standby generator engine? They (air cooled) run at a constant 3600 rpms and measured in hours not miles. And should a "break in oil" like Driven be used for one or two oil changes??
I hooked up a leaf blower, portable heater, and a few other high-power devices and kept turning them on and off.
break it in drive it like you stole it ... if you did something wrong it will come apart in the first 20 min ....
Breaking in a new engine is like packing bearings,no matter how you do it its always wrong according to everyone else,lol, you could be certified from the University of bearing packing with a Masters on it and it would still be wrong.
With some engines you really have to give the engine high pressure and then high vacuum. (That's what these pulls are for)
For example on a BMW M1000RR it has one Piston ring less in the Motor and if you don't break it in with high gear pulls it will burn oil like crazy
@@dntlssyour wrong🤷 jk🤭
Yes sir so the rings can't help seat. We use to throw in Ajax in the cylinders to help seat the rings if they didn't break in right
Do you recommend the same break-in procedure for a small engine?
I have a new Honda GX100 and a Lifan 78cc that both need to be broken in.
Same procedure with rpm modified for the smaller engine?
I would think a small engine like these running a good break in oil would need 25 miles or so for a full break in prior to switching out to regular oil. What do you think?
Yes!
Getting ready to do this saturday . fresh hone , total seal max seal rings , line to line piston skirt coating . i fired it up already . ran hot as i was told it would . ran it for 10 minutes . shut it down. After verifying timing . fresh oil and filter in . ready to do some runs up and dpwn the street tp seat the rings .
Right on!
Hey can you settle an argument my dad and I are having. I have a recently rebuilt dodge 318 with fresh piston and rings and new lunati flat tappet cam and my dad and I are arguing over whether or not to put a little bit of oil down each cylinder before the first start. I said the cylinder should be dry and the only oil or lube is what was coated on the walls and rings during install of the piston and rings. He said that that it needs additional lubrication since it will not get oil right away for the first few revolutions during the engine startup and running. I believe it's going to cause glazing, he believes it will wear down and damage the rings quickly due to no oil being present. The only reason this is an issue is, is the engine came back from the machine shop about three weeks ago and we're just getting around to installing it and that the oil that was on the piston, rings and walls may have dissipated during that time. Am I right? or is he right? or Are we're both wrong? Thank you for your time.
Great question. There is plenty of oil splashing up from the crankcase, so you don’t need to put oil down the spark plug hole. Only bad things can happen from putting oil on top of the pistons!
Last SBC I built while doing cam break in the header paint started bellowing to point it was hard to see the engine and summit sent me the wrong sending unit for my digital temp gauge so it was reading 260+ I was totally horrified but I kept going because it didn't feel that hot I did not dare to stop the break in but all was good another flat tappet lived through break in. I don't think it hurt it was a Howards cam. I lost a comp 292 like 20+ years ago that sucked wiped out cam and engine full of filings. Time start all over. I did hear comp had subbed out there cams and got a bunch batches of soft cams a machine shop went through a bunch of 280 magnums in a row but that's what the guy HAD to have.
I was also taught this procedure in the 70's, but we always leave the car in 1st or 2nd gear and let the engine slow down the car, creates strong vacuum to draw oil up onto the rings.
Will this work on a 5.9 cummins diesel?
Yep
Would this break-in procedure also work on a GY6 150cc scooter engine? It's a brand new scooter and I want to do things properly for long life and performance.
Very informative thank you, somehow reminded me of 'Batman and Robin' series as a kid.
LOL…
Can I break in my engine with the turbo on there or do I need to run the engine without the turbo to prevent the turbo from getting damaged?
You can break it in with the turbo.
Thanks for all the good info my question is when breaking in a methanol engine should I use the lean out valve to help build temperature quicker in a race only situation I've always ran the engine at 2500 for 20 min recheck valves and go racing .before now I used injection with a gas primer so the 1sr 20 min were on gas..now with alcohol carb I will be running on methanol for break in ..any tips that may help would be highly appreciated thanks again for the straight advice
Great question. In our other video on dyno break-in, we covered leaning out the engine when using methanol. You can run the engine leaner on Methanol when you are not running the engine under full load, so that is very helpful to build temperature and reduce fuel wash.
Quick question fellas, I Just rebuilt my 5.0 coyote motor (forged internals, etc). I understand that I’m supposed to use break-in oil for 300-500 miles. But am I supposed to use regular conventional oil for additional miles or is it safe to go back to the regular oil I use??
After the break-in with the break-in oil, you can go to your regular oil.
Hello Lake. I just had my engine rebuilt and the mechanic put Synthetic Amsoil 5w-50 ATV/UTV oil in it. Said to use that for break in. After seeing this video I’m concerned. Should I dump it and refill with a break in oil? Can you suggest what type of oil or brand? It’s a 2021 Yamaha 999cc UTV engine Thank you.
@Totalseal
If you buy a new car off the lot but it already has 5, 10 or 20 miles on the odometer, would it still be beneficial to do this procedure for the rings or is the opportunity to really break in the rings with maximum effectiveness and benefit already gone? Keep in mind this car was also driven at low rpm’s to load and unload it for transport several times, idling for who knows how long. Would this have caused damage to the cam lobes or at the very least some pre-mature wearing?
It is beneficial to do this even with less than 100 miles already on the car.
Always good info, thanks, BUT, please address the forgotten? never talked about flat tappet break-in problem of engine/oil temperatures. Radiators and cooling systems are often not capable of keeping engine temperatures in a safe range, which in my opinion has everything to do with the oils ability to lubricate camshaft lobes and lifters during a break-in procedure, open cooling system versus closed coolant system is my go to. Thoughts?
If you have proper lifter/cam contact geometry and the correct oil, this procedure will work perfectly for a flat tappet engine. If the radiator can only handle 10 minutes at a time, then it is fine to repeat that cycle 2 to 3 times.
I have an LQ4 that has been completely rebuilt so new pistons, rings, cam, bearings, etc. My question is can I run the engine long enough at idle to get up to temp to top off the coolant and transmission without worrying about glazing the cylinders? Then take it out and do the break in pulls like the video?
Yes, that is fine.
Is it true you should use conventional type oil to break in a new engine.
At what point is it too late for the rings to be seated, if any? I.e. do they need to be seated within x minutes of run time? Thanks!
Hey there so if I have a hydraulic roller cam the only thing I'm really doing is breaking in the piston rings correct
Yep!
So is it the process breaking in a flat tappet cam
never could understand why even some "pro's" can't get an engine to fire properly the first time... Get the spark happening near the right time before you ever put fuel in the thing! the timing light works at cranking speeds! then when you add fuel it goes vroom! no backfire, no nonsense..
Old "Dyno" Don knows his stuff!
How long should you run the break in oil? Should you change the initial oil and use break in oil again a second time for so many miles before going to your regular oil?
The break-in oil will do its work within the first 500 miles, so once you change out the break-in oil, you can go straight to your regular oil.
I have VW type 1 engine. It is flat tappet, but I bought some DLC coated tool steel lifters since I heard a lot of people were having a problem for a while. Is there any special procedures you would recommend for a set up like this?
Great question. Even with the DLC coated lifters, follow the same procedure.
Your engine designer is the only person that can tell you if you need DLC coated lifters....... DLC is for hardness.... It may not work.
Can you just rev it up to set the rings or would it be better to drive it? Only reason i ask is im in a very congested area and i dont think id have the space
No, you cannot. Drive it up and down hills instead or find a big empty parking lot to play in.
What about modern OHC engine with direct action mechanical buckets? How do I break that in???😅
Do it the same way.
Do you have any advice in relation to breaking in small engines like mowers?
My plan was to briefly warm the oil and run the engine hard under load - changing oil every 10 mins or so (since there is no filtration) - Keen on your thoughts
That sounds like a great plan! Frequent early changes are great for engines with no filtration.
Yeah cut grass with it. 😎
Kart engines... are mower engines....
What about the guys who don't have a bad ass engine to break in rings? What about air cooled Vtwins? Does anything change for breakin VS liquid cooled V8
Any diesel rpm conversion of rpm numbers being discussed in the vid?
Run engine up to max torque.
@@Mr-Ames max torque omy diesel is at 2,200 rpm. Does it matter which gear it is in?
@@highsoap Pick a gear that takes 10-30 seconds to reach your rpm
I did 1200 miles on my new motor, not going past 4k rpms. It felt fine, but had a few hiccups. After I ran it to redline a few times now, it seems like it runs better. Is that just in my head or is there a reason?
How do you break in a alcohol drag racing engine
With roller cam
On engine run in stand or in car ?
how about when you do an engine rebuild with a new turbo ? is it the same procedure
Yes, same procedure.
What kind of camshaft my Tucson 1.6 crdi 2019 have?
Can you guys comment on the case where the engine is being broken in on a run stand? (ie minimal load on the engine as compared to the dyno or in-car methods) Thanks!
Thanks for the question. Because a run-in stand can’t apply load, we don’t recommend using a run stand to break-in an engine. They are fine for breaking in a can and checking for leaks, but rings need load to break-in properly, especially with thinner rings.
@@TotalSeal I'm sorry i beg to differ as when I load the engine on the start up stand and I run it to 2000 rpm for 20 minutes it is just as good as running it in the car driving around. You cannot push the motor too much driving around just the same as running on an engine stand.
@Daniele Silvaggi it's not the same, but if it works for you that's great.
same procedure if using something like darton sleeves?
Yes, follow the same procedure for Darton sleeves.
After you change out the break-in oil, do you need to change the regular oil shortly after as well? (500 miles on the new oil)
Great question! Do the 2nd oil change at 1,500 miles.
@@TotalSeal thank you!
With all the trouble with breaking in flat tappet lifters these days, would breaking the engine in with much lighter valve springs or even lower ratio lift rockers take some of the stress off of the cam lobes until the cam and lifters are broke in?
It can, but material hardness and contact geometry are more important than that.
I just put your rings in my 2017 coyote mustang. Working out other issues currently and drove it a little bit but didn't floor it really, drove about 20km at normal acceleration. Should they still seat properly if i go out and put my foot down?
Yes, you should still be able to get the rings to seat by following the procedure in the video.
what about an ls1 fresh rebuild break in procedure? (not a flat tappet camshaft obviously) BUT has roller lifters
Follow the same procedure regardless of the type of camshaft. This procedure will do a great job breaking both types - flat tappet or roller.
Can I break in the cams by only reving the engine while being stationary?. I don't have driveways near me...
Great video guys, thnx! One question - specific case:
Everything in the head is new BUT the cams. Do the same rules apply?
Great question! The same rules still apply. The parts the contact each other need to be broken in, even valve tips.
@@TotalSeal Now that's what a call a fast response - kudos!
So what are thoughts on the new 10-10-10 method being published that showed less cam wear? run for 10, cool for 10, etc. Also when you are on load break in and not initial... should that be the same oil? I always read you change the initial oil then you do drive it gently for 500 miles.. with me I have a fresh built AOD and a fresh rear end that is supposed to be broken in . I know the rear has to be heat cycled like drive 20 miles then let it cool so I dont know if that means I can't run up the RPM a bit... has a 3000 converter too. The other thing is I'm rushing to get this done, would be great to start the engine soon being toward winter id probably use 5w30 anyway, but should I use like a moroso heating pad on the pan ? Thanks
The 10 - 10 - 10 is great for the camshaft, you just need to complete the break-in with load on the engine as described in the video. Essentially, you can sub the first 20 minutes of engine run time for the 10 - 10 - 10 if you have a flat tappet cam.
@@TotalSeal Thanks! I think I absolutely should use 5w 30 if I get my first start going here soon. getting cold in NY. My only concern is .. ring and pinion / carrier break in is like 100 miles before "hard acceleration" after the 10-15 mile warm up and cool down. Tranny is also fresh. but would a load count as say... Leaving it in first and bringing it up more gradual to 5000? still pushing the weight of the truck ? or is it about inertia? I just hope I'm not in a stalemate that one thing or the other will be properly broken in lol
@@tonypepperoni229 I like the idea of the gradual acceleration. That puts load on the engine without shocking loading the rings and pinion. Good idea!
@@TotalSeal Thanks.. makes me feel a bit more confident lol. not like im the first person to just build all the new parts at once so im sure its "ok" if not ideal
What do you recommend for oil change intervals during break in? I’ve heard that doing the first change at 500 is good, but I’ve also heard smaller intervals like 50, 100, 500. And for that matter at what point is it safe to switch to your standard running oil?
500 is a great rule of thumb!
@@TotalSeal thanks! so just run the break in oil for 500 miles then switch to synthetic at that time?
@@c_healy If you are running actual "break in oil" then also check with the oil manufacturer (I was just looking at DrivenRacing and they say 400 miles).
What if you run into an issue part way through the flat tappet cam break-in procedure? For example, you start to notice your engine temp climbing near the high end. I'm assuming we should stop everything, address the issue and then when the engine is cooled to normal operating temp, resume? Point being, is all lost if we can't get it done in one shot?
Good question. Stopping the engine and fixing the problem is correct move. After that, restart the procedure. It is not a one shot deal.
So follow this same procedure say on a ZZ4 350 crate motor? What break in oil would you recommend?
If you don’t have access to a dyno, yes. The Driven BR30 is an excellent choice for this.
@@TotalSeal How long does the break-in oil have to stay in the engine on a roller cam? I have 100 miles on my new sbc zz4.
@@Floresbrandon95 we recommend using the break-in oil for the first 2 hours of engine run time on roller cam engines.
@@TotalSeal After that run time, I can swap to something like 10w-30 conventional for 500 miles?
@@Floresbrandon95 yes
What about oil filters ? High flow ? High filter?
How do performance car manufacturers break in engines?
I’m building a Chevy 5.3 gen3 carbed ,how would I go about breaking the engine in enough to drive daily?
Just follow the procedure in the video.
@@TotalSeal what about the timing ,does the msd 6014 have a setting that I can use to daily it or do I gotta take it to a shop to have it done?
If I get motor warmed up then find an issue and have to shut down will I have issue seating rings after I fix issue
Great question. No, as long as you follow the procedure after the problem is fixed, everything should seat properly.
After the cam break in without a dyno and a flat tappet, do you keep the same 5w30 oil in the motor for the street break in?
I'm getting a long block LA 318.
Yes, keep the break-in oil in the engine for the first 100 or 200 miles to get the rings to break-in.
I have been enjoying and laerning from your videos i have a c153 int tractor motor fresh from machine shop waiting on new exhaust manifold how would you break in a tractor motor
Thanks for the comment! I’d follow the same procedure, but cut the RPM in half. 1,000 RPM is plenty for an old tractor engine. Do the 20 to 30 minute cam break-in, and then go drive the tractor to put some load on the engine (rings). Same procedure, just modified.
Roller tappets I can run 1 min at 2000 rpm?
And same applies for diesels?
It is best to run them higher than 2,000 RPM so there is ample crankcase splash.
Is a modern OHC cam on bucket solid lifter assembly not an upsidown flat tappet arrangement?
Yes it is, so they should be broken-in the same way as a flat tappet cam.
Your procedure for breaking in the engine on the dyno is running at 3000 RPM with about 75 ft lb of load that's great if the only speed you ever going to run that engine is 3000 RPM. And with somewhere between 70 and 100 ft lb of load. If you're going to use an engine in your car it's going to take at least five hundred miles of very driving so that the engine Brakes in at the varied speeds that you were going to actually drive the damn thing. It is far better to break in an engine in the car if you're going to use it in the car and motivate yourself from place to place at varying speeds and traffic conditions!
That's not the correct way to look at the break-in process. You are not trying to replicate what happens on the road. You are simply allowing the parts that run in contact with each other to mate. This procedure works great for that purpose.
I broke in a roller cam 454 with the cheapest Walmart 10w 30 worked just great ..lol
Do a search for "rat 540", he has a blog. He has his own tests for testing oil. His top rated oil I believe is still QS from Wally World.
For new cars with delivery miles, do you simply do the varying load pulls within the first few miles after delivery? What mileage range? At what mileage do you consider an engine fully broken in?
Follow the procedure in the video. The engine will be broken in after the first 500 miles.
What about the Mercedes (racing) technique using BonAmi????????????????
LOL, that was only used for when the break-in didn’t happen correctly. It was just a fix not a standard procedure.
@@TotalSeal What is TS's recommended break-in procedure for dry gas (NPG/LNG) fueled engines??
@@gmcnelly2468 good question. Because the rings still need load to break-in properly, we recommend the exact same procedure.
When would it be appropriate to switch to full synthetic?
Is it okay to break in the cam in a run stand then the rings a couple months later when it’s in the car?
Yes, you can do that.
@@TotalSeal Thank you Mr Seal 🙏
So is break in oil so rlly that crucial in a roller cam motor?
Break in oil helps the rings seat.
Can you use a standard 5W30 oil with STP?
No, don’t use regular oil even with an additive.
So there wouldn’t be an issue with breaking in the cam one day and the rings another day? Example would be on a circle track car where you couldn’t get out and make pulls until you got to the track that weekend.
No problem at all.
My new truck is one year old with 250 miles. Should i change my oil? 2020 f150 3.3 V6
Thanks for the question. We’d recommend changing the oil soon since you have less than 500 miles on the original oil.
How many miles do ned to drive with a break in oil. Thanks
300 to 500 maximum
Thanks for the great video, I recently built a LS2 engine with your Gapless top rings. I will be doing the break in with the engine in the car, I understand the process you spoke of above with driving and applying the load to the engine. My question is do I start the engine let it warm up and change the oil before the first drive or just go ahead and drive it? How long should the break in oil stay in the engine? I autocross my car when can I start racing the car and can I race it with the break in oil in the engine or do I have to wait till I change to regular oil? This is my first built engine and I am a little nervous about the break in and don't want to do anything that would damage it or reduce its life span. I also watched your videos on break in oil and looked at your analysis, I will be running Lucas 30Wt break in oil because it had all the green checkmarks and no red x's. I also purchased a fitting for the block and a fluid pump the pre-pressurize the engine with oil before the first start, I had planned on pressurizing it with the pump and slowly turning the engine over without the plugs in it, then installing the plugs and then starting it. Thanks for any advise
Great question. Start the car and bring the engine up to 2,000 RPM for 1 minute before driving the car. Follow the procedure in the video, and then change the break-in oil after 1 hour of engine run time.
@Total Seal Piston Rings when I change the oil after the hour, I put break in oil back in, correct? How long after that change should it stay in?
@@mikeschanel6165 after an hour of engine run time following the procedure in the video, you can change to your regular oil.
What's your guys thoughts on 5w20 lucas break in oil
We’ve not see their 5W-20 break-in oil. It must be a new product for them.
So how do you get fuel and spark to the engine before you crank the engine?
How do you make sure the first time the engine turns this is going to happen?
You can crank the engine with spark plugs removed to make sure there is fuel flow. You can even connect one spark plug and bump the started to make sure it sparks (just make sure to keep it away from the engine). That's the best way to know the engine has both fuel and spark before the initial start up.
@@TotalSeal does this do any damage to flat tappet cam shaft? I've been told you don't want to crank the engine much before starting. Thanks for the information
@@JohnScheppler you can bump the started on a flat tappet cam to prime the oil pump, fuel pump and check spark for about 10 to 15 seconds with no problems. We do that with all new flat tappet cam builds. You just don’t want to keep cranking on it for more than that.
Hi Lake,
What if the car is like just a 1.3 liter with not that much torque to load the rings, should we still conservatively follow the 3,000 rpm and 30 minute run, or we should load it up with more torque (I don't know how to measure that without I dyno)? But I hope you get my point in breaking in little pony cars. 😄
Just follow the directions in the video. It will still work despite the smaller engine.
And yet... Detroit pumped out millions of engines in the golden era of flat tappet cams, and every time the discussion of modern "break in" procedures comes up like this, that history does not get examined. Imagine an operation that needs something north of 70,000 lifters a week doing assembly in various locations: they had 25 minutes per engine [plus setup time] to certify ready for install? Not believable.
I find it interesting about all the break in hype. Some guys do it some guys don’t…
I'm right 👍 there with you back when the dinosaur 🦖 roamed the woods we didn't have Dyno rooms everywhere. 😅
Am I doing the wrong thing, my garage who just rebuilt my engine told me I need to do under 2,000 rpm for 1,000 miles. Is that stupid? Thanks
We disagree with that approach, which is why we made this video.