Engine Break In For The Home Builder
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- Опубликовано: 6 мар 2022
- The first few minutes of run time on a fresh build are the most important of any engines life.
Here are the parts and systems that require specific break in, the oils and additives that are needed and the special considerations that are common to most situations.
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The 360 is gonna be a banshee when it finally is in the car lol.
I NEVER knew you had to break in a roller cam. Thought it was just run and gun. Thank you for that tidbit of wisdom, UT.
Really enjoy this series. Very informative
Spot on Uncle Tony
All the best from Melbourne Australia
I'm so pleased that Tony can lay it out so well it teaches those that don't know and tells them what they need to know and do...thanks tony
And makes all the know it all's lose their minds. . Clueless clowns that know a whole bunch of 💩. Problem is that all the 💩 they know is 🐮 💩.
Yea Uncle Tony is a good fellow.
@@lilmike2710 that's why it's called 💩 ; ) haha
@@williamallen7836 😁
This is some quality content and really, really helpful for the 302 build I'm in the middle of right now. Thank you UTG!
That thing sounds wicked! All hail the mighty Mopar V8 🤘
Recently blew a head gasket on my SBC 350. This is my first rebuild and these videos have made all the guessing and worrying go away. I'm getting more and more confident with how its gonna turn out with each UTG video I watch. Thanks for all the help Unc!
Hi Tony,great job on your breakin procedure info but here a a few additional things I do that will help too.
If running an aftermarket cam they require considerable more initial/base timing then oem cam does (due to more duration) which some people aren’t aware of.
For example,my bbc oem cam requires approx 6 dbtdc base timing but the avg aftermarket mild to fairly hot cam requires anywhere from 12-16 dbtdc base timing being 2-3x more timing then stock.
So if you don’t run that 2-3x additional base timing with non stock cam the timing with be very regarded causing the motor to run a lot hotter then it should overheating it & the exhaust manifolds too.
Good starting point for timing with non stock cam for street motors is 14-18 base timing along with mech adv in dist giving approx 28 deg all in at 2500-2600 rpm max.
A lot of guys say mech adv all in by 3k rpm but that’s too lazy with gearing like 273/308/331 where cruise rpm at 60hp h is in 2200-2600rpmish range where mech adv will never be in all the way loosing power & mpg.
Also setup vac adv using a crane cam vac adv limiter plate (hooked to full int vac at idle & not pitted vac) to give max of 10-12 deg additional timing at part throttle low load cruise .
That gives the motor crisper throttle response with more power & helps it run cooler at fle & cruise too.
Listen for detonation with that perf timing curve on pump fuel & if detonation is heard don’t retard timing loosing power,mpg & making motor run hotter esp in traffic at idle.
I use the real lead like used in real fuel 40yrs ago to increase octane & protect/lube exhaust valves (if no hardened ex valve seats seats) to approx 96-98 octane & that should stop the detonation in most cases & retain full power & good throttle response too.
It’s called octane supreme130 avail from wild bills corvettes,it’s expensive but even so when you do the math it’s still cheaper then buying race fuel.
You just keep a few bottles of the real lead booster in the trunk to add when filling up,it’s great stuff that works great.
Use approx 2.5oz per gal staring with 93 octane pump fuel or 3oz per gal if starting with 91 octane fuel to obtain approx 96-98 Octane.
Moving on.
Filling coolant,add coolant to system thru therm stat housing in intake man (rad cap off rad!) which pushes most if not all air out of the system.
Fill it till it almost overflows coolant out of intake man & or radiator to ensure most of the air is out of the system & coolant touches t-stat when it’s installed for quicker/proper opening.
Doing this ensures you don’t overheat motor before stat opens & avoids the big sit burp bubble that forces out coolant all over the place too as motor warms up on 1st start.
Ensure you use an assembly on cam lobes & bottom/foot of lifters that stays put on this parts (at times months later) not running of like the red lube some cam mfg’s use that drips off in a day or 2 post application cause an almost dry startup.
I use crane cans grey moly type ft cam lifter assembly lube that stays put on the cam lobes,lifters rockers,valve stem tips & pushrods till you fire up the motor.
Lastly, place 1 if not 2 box fans facing the grill/rad area set on high speed on boxes in front of the rad blowing air directly thru the rad.
If you don’t do this in many cases you will not have good airflow required to keep the motor & collant properly cooled off during 20-25 min run at 2k-2,500 rpm breaking period & motor will run.hit ir overheat.
I always change the oil & filter right after the 20-25 min breakin run because there is assembly lube that can partially clog the oil filter slobg with a lot of small metallic particle contamination in the oil post breakin that must come out ASAP!
For flat tappet mild setups ensure you refill with oil that that a min of 1200-1300ppm zddp & for more aggressive ft cams you should have approx 1400-1500ppm zddp.
Would not hurt at all to use this oil with rollers setups for more antiwear protection too.
Bradpenn1 mfg’s mult grades of oil with proper zddp lvl, for mild ft cams you can use chevron delo std Dino 15-40 diesel & gas engine fleet oil that’s got 1300ppm zddp per mfg data sheet.
I also use a FILTERMAG magnet on the oil filter (esp for breakin) along with proper breakin oil fortified with additional zddp during breakin & post breakin too esp for flat tappet cam setups.
All the above advice is coming from my 5+ decades wrenching/rebuilding/restoring American muscle cars & classic motorcycles.
And like you Tony I’m older guy (66yrs old) too that loves American muscle of the 50’s-60’s & 70’s
Hope this is a helpful addition to your breakin proceedure.
Btw,my toy is a #’s matching 1969 chevelle ss396 4spd I bought from original owners daughter in 1978 that I still own & drive to this day.
It’s never been fully restored but in 2001 I had it repaired it’s original dusk blue & i pulled the motor at same time & rebuilt it top to bottom at the same time.
So motors balanced (.30 over 9.7 forged pistons) & has more cam then stock (moderate comp ft 222/226,.525/.525”,112lsa) & mild pocket porting,Manley undercut race flow valves & extrude honed ex manifolds) motors got approx 375-380hp/430-440lbs trq) ,
2.5” mandrel bent ex pipes thru flow masters & stock appearing tail pipes & chrome ex tips too.
With that mild motor setup It’s plenty peppy & fun to drive with 4spd & 3:31 12bolt posi.
Happy motoring to you & everyone!
First video i ever seen was Tony sitting on a pink bicycle and I thought WTF is this some random chain smoking hillbilly bullshitting us about. Then i watched another video and another and another. Here i am still watching and learning from this genius of a car mechanic. Love the channel and how he takes everyone and anyone who wants to learn under his arms and teaches them.
I look like Tony have the redneck hair hanging out back of hat, and im a motorhead also, never underestimate shade tree mechanics.
I was taught break in, dump oil, 500 miles, dump oil, resume with regular change intervals, and of course new filters each time
It's great to see some healthy dialog between the poster and his viewers. Some people have a real short fuse when combined with somebody who knows how to push their buttons it makes for interesting conversation. I'm older and what I want from this channel is to find stuff I don't know so I learn new things.
Huge Value Information here. You just can't find these tips anywhere else. Thank you.
Thank you
All this info just absolutely rings true to me
Congratulations guys
Good info and nice flags in the back RLTW!
Hello 👋 uncle ! ….. your friend paul from delta bc Canada 🇨🇦…… love the old school cars bru!
I’m 5 minutes from Seattle wa border ….. the igloos are in north west territories and Alaska 😃…. I’m already cutting grass here
Pro tip on big or aggressive cams for break in. Use a dry moly Cote (if flat tappet only) on the lifter face then. Your normal break in lube. Also instead of doing the stock spring swap. If your running a dual spring as most do with a more aggressive cam you can take the inner spring out . Do your break in then Just add the inner spring in. If it's a very aggressive spring you can run just the inner spring ,do your break in then add the outer but DO NOT rev the engine over 2500 rpm or so. This system works great especially on flat tappets
When I raced circle track, we ran the heavy springs, we never idled it for 20 minutes for the cam from what I remember, maybe 5-10 minutes, and often they didn't start right away, after that we took it to the track, did about 3 laps, and then we just ran it hard to break in the rings. Flat tappet çams, I don't know why we didn't have problems.
Good job Tony you can't emphasize the break-in procedures enough. All the money it cost nowadays to put a motor together can be just thrown down the drain in a matter of minutes if you don't follow the proper techniques to break it in. And even then it's a crap shoot with the cams and lifters that are available to us nowadays I'm speaking flat tappet. Love your channel by the way I've been a Mopar nut since my teenage years and I'm pushing 70 now. It's always been Mopar or no car 🇺🇲👍
Take notes. UT dispenses wisdom with a firehose, and this is the best explanation I've ever heard for engine break-in. I've read quite often where people say it isn't necessary to do a break-in on a roller motor. That never sat well with me and I didn't know exactly why until now.
I'm about to start my at home rebuild thank you for all the info
The amout of shows, let alone shops that crank on a brand new engine , I've done it meself. Your teachings are invaluable, We're not worthy, We're not worthy. Cheers many.
A lot of good advice
People ,,, hit the like icon or sent Tony some $$$$. This is his job.
HOWdy U-T-G,
thanks
COOP
...
Yep. I got something out of that video. A lot actually. Thanks Tony!
Great points Tony ! We generally just fire up the new engine build and drive it around in the car , truck or bulldozer operating it as it would in normal use .
The coated heads getting all funky looking is oh so true. And I never thought about the stock springs on start up 2 things that you got across in this video. Thanks
Great video, thanks a lot for sharing this valuable info!
Great video Tony!!! Only thing I would add is to make sure you also change the oil filter and cut it open to inspect for any metal.
great channell!!
Bob Odonnell
Good advice but, it's a bit of overkill.
The magnetic drain plug will give you the read you'd be looking for. Just change filters and read the drain plug.
Good reminder on cutting open filter , which by the way people is designed to trap trash 💪🏻👍🏻
I fire it up , vary rpm from 2000 to 2800 changing rpm every 5 minutes to throw oil at different angles for 20 to 30 minutes now matter the cam . Then most times engine is in a truck I hook up my 20 foot trailer with a car on it and hit the hiway. Good drive and never fails me.Valvoline VR1 best oil for zinc.
I sell, here in Canada, a ZDDP enriched engine oil for flat tappet applications and I found this video very helpful. It hit the important points in layman’s terms. Thank you for the content.
What a tease! Motor sounded like it had a miss?
We did have a spark plug wire come apart when we pulled them off a couple times because they’re straight boots, but we fixed it. I’m gonna be ordering a set with angled boots because pulling off the straight ones if they broke this early is obviously going to be a problem down the road I’d like to avoid.
@@austinlacroix888 strait boots are a pain in the ass. My 1992 Camaro has them stock. After running for X thousands of miles, the rubber adheres to the plug. It is very difficult to break the adhesion by rotating the boot. It's just to hard to get the leverage. Specialy when the engine is installed, space is even tighter. I cut a roughly 1 inch to 1 & 1/4 inch wide strip of 14 or 16 Guage metal. At one end I made a fork slightly wider then the spark plug porcelain, and tapered outside of the forks a bit. Then put a 90 degree bend in it just after the fork. Then a little past the length of the boot I put another 90 degree bend in the opposite direction to make a pull handle. I made another one with the 2nd bend in the same direction as the first bend for extremely tight spaces. This allows me to slip the fork just under the end of the boot. This way as you pull on the tool it puts preasure right ware the adhesion is at so it can be broken free without stressing the crimped on wire connector. You can use different widths of the sheet metal to allow easier access in tighter "spark plug wells." It's best to use the widest strip that will easily fit. As the strength of the tool comes the width of the meterial, and the 2 90 degree bends. If extra strength is needed. Places the 90 degree on the corner of a 2x4 or other suitable pieces of scrap wood. Then using a large flat head screw driver, or blunted chisle give a good wack aligned along the axis of the bend. It's best to clamp it down so it doesn't try to unbend when walked. This creates a gusset that will easily greatly strengthen the bend so it won't try to unbend as you pull on your tool. I said pull on your tool. Hahaha. 😀 hopefully I was able to describe this well enough that you can visualize it. If not, let me know and I will make a quick video and link it here. It would be my very first.
I’m at re-assembly time on my AMC 258 and this was right info at the right time. I’m planning on turning my engine stand into a run stand for the break in and although I’ve heard many talk about how to do an engine break in this was far and away the best explanation why.
Break in on the stand with exhaust you don’t care about.
Oil change.
Get it in the car with fresh painted-cured header and break in the rings.
Oil change at 300.
Wheel it!
Thanks UTG!
If the rings aren't seated in the first 5mins ,start over.
Soon as it's got oil pressure and no visible leaks ,bring the revs up to 2k at least and give it a hard throttle hit (wide open)like every 10 seconds and let the revs come up 4-500rpms at least.
That'll load the rings so they seat.
I want to thank you for this video and information. Quality info sir.👍
Very good real practical advice. Wanted to add that Tony's advice does apply to fuel injection too. For example, if you've built a new engine, you probably have bought yourself some new fuel injectors. Much like Tony's advice to use a known-good carburetor, you should also use known-good fuel injectors and not try to fool with new ones during engine break in. Use the known-good injectors, then after its run in, swap the injectors over to the new ones you bought for your build and dial those in.
I love the videos Tony...John seems to not take in what information your providing here...I'm going to be building my 78 Delta 88 in memory of my late wife who passed away January 7th....the plan is to keep the car in stock appearance inside and out but a 455 Olds in place of the 350...shooting for big power... Wilwood brakes QA1 and Southside Machine suspension parts bullet proof trans and rear end with all Moser parts....it will take time but I want it done right...thank you for being there Uncle Tony during this difficult time for me...you help ease this gear heads pain a touch and I really appreciate all your time knowledge and dedication to the channel!
Great and informative video Uncle Tony, I've got a 360 in my old 74' d200 and my 85' d150 best engines I've ever had. Also, it's weird the infatuation with the junkyard jet boys (great group of guys), but the people complaining need to understand that This is Uncle Tony's Garage, the junkyard jet guys are like the fun side kicks that probably have other jobs and aren't full time RUclipsrs.
I'm currently building my Grandfather's 1974 w200 with a 360 in it. This video is just what I needed. Question for you tho... what's the highest speed you've touched with your d200? Did a Google search but didn't find anything. I'm just wondering 🤔
@@AGonzo108 well mine is stock still only has 64,000 but I have gotten it to 75 mph on the highway. My 85 d150 short box I got up to 110 with it's 360 rebuilt with .30 over and some Edelbrock performer heads, weiand intake manifold and Holly Demon carburetor. I don't remember the full specs of everything on that. Wasn't an expensive build but that was back in 2009. It's actually my daughter's truck now too.
Glad to see it's coming along nicely
Thanks Tony. Would it be possible to get more info, or maybe even a video on the basics of wiring up the engine and switches etc on the engine test stand? Cheers John.
Well done !! People underestimate this step and then regret it later.
I've had a shortblock that's needed completed for the last ten years. This video will definitely help when I get around to it 😅
lots of great info tony
Great advice on headers and carbs! Thanks and cheers
Great advice. I'm about to start a 351w build at home and I'll keep this in mind.
Thanks uncle Tony this video was sooo helpful I have an old 72 mustang rebuilt 306 .and it will be ready to do the initial start in a few days just doing some finishing touches to her, and I have never done a break on an engine, my buddy that is helping me I think has,gonna definatly get some zink additive at auto store
Great info UT,thank you sir 👍
I’ve always done a done a double run of break in oil, first batch for initial and second batch for around 250 miles
No harm in that, oil's cheap, rebuilds aren't.
Great information Tony! 💥🇺🇸💥🇺🇸💥🇺🇸
Great video Tony. Wish I would have had this info before I did my engine.
Great video!
Well said 😊
Hey Tony, nice explanation! I've had really good results with John Deere break in oil over the years on gas and diesel engines (many). It ain't cheap, but it contains all the critical vitamins and minerals needed for success. Dump it right after 20 minute mark. Cheers bud! and cheers to the Super troll right above me I guess, anyhow you know what time it is! Thanks!
I've had engine builders that would never give you this good information! thanks Tony and Kathy!
I love the ear protection they were wearing...lol i dont use them either, because why muffle a good sound...
Driving break in oil has worked great for me then switch to valvoline Vr-1 racing oil.
good info.!
Sounded meaty
I used to use the Mobil 1 racing 4T oil....its ZDDP is real high and there are others that are higher....
Tony I don't allways agree with you, but this video was spot on and some really goo advice. Now you should make a video on how to do the secondary brake in for a drag race motor. Very important step in getting every pony qnd life out of your bullet.
headers cooking!! makes perfect sense !!.. a mate of mine cooked his now i know why they cooked and a weld leaked .
Been following a while, you should do a video about camshaft specs and timing. How important it is, and how it affects dynamic CR. and power band.
I was all ways told the 2000rpm for 20mins rule of thumb, but never told that the rpm was to splash oil around. Makes 100% sence now !
Great educational video on explaining what and why regarding the break in period. Again, UT should teach Auto Shop at a local College. 👍
Great info. Thank you! Are you familiar with and do you use Camgaurd?
my first car was a 65 chrysler newport land yacht with a 2 barrel 383,727 trans, my dad built the motor,(put a 4 barrel manifold on) he put stock cam and lifters in it. told me to drive it hard for 1000 miles, took back into garage swapped the cam and lifters and springs. told me drive it nice for 500 miles.
couldn't tap the gas with out jumping into the intersection and doing a donut when it was wet
I like to use a magnetic drain plug,it catches most of the ferrous particulate matter floating around in the oil ...
That I am interested in, moly rings on super high nickel content blocks, i think it took about a month, dialed in the carb one day and just my toe had me squirrel-ie all over the road able to light them up in any gear... I thought I failed lmao
Used Borla headers sprint car headers for our engines.
That green block sounds like it’s got a nasty cam in it!
🤟
When I brake in my engines I always Advance the timing well beyond maximum spec. 40° is not that much without a load on the engine and it prevents the headers from turning red hot most of the time as well as Richening the mixture.
your a badass. NEW SUB
Dont use battleship springs during break in! Great vidinfo!! USN Ret.
After watching a dozen " break in engine " videos it's clear to me I'm as confused as ever now .🥴
Great info Tony. What is you thoughts on total seals gas port piston rings. I read grumpy was one of the pioneers when he would port the pistons
ok hearing about the exhaust manifold glowing red makes me feel better about my break in lol. i rebuilt my first engine over these past few months (300 ford in-line 6) and broke it in a few weeks ago. on initial startup and within the first couple minutes, the engine got pretty hot (got real close to 200 degrees) and the exhaust manifold was smoking and glowing a bit. like an idiot i shut the engine off for a couple minutes cause i was worried it was being damaged. started it back up again, and continued with the break in process and it all went well! runs and idles really good now. just waiting to put it in my truck
No problems letting it cool down as long as you restart and rev 2000 rpm, you are just polishing lobes and lifters.
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT GETER DONE. LET'S SEE THE SMOKESHOW.
A question on break in with deep sump pan and windage tray.
Should these not be used for break in and stock pan be used?
I have a w100 truck so the motor will need to come out after break with stock pan, as there is no room to screw in the extended pick up tube for the rear deep sump oil pan I plan on using.
All new engines that I break in, I change the oil and filter, and cut open the filter to inspect for any obvious excessive metal filings. I don't even drive the car before a fresh oil change and filter inspection. Again, just my preference. Cheers,
They say there is no such thing as a stupid question, but, here goes.
If you omit the spark plugs and hook up the crankshaft to an approximately 2000 rpm 5 hp electric motor, could you safely break in the friction prone parts of the engine without firing the engine?
Is the green paint Rust-Oleum brand? If so where did u find it?
What do you know about ring washing on the break-in?
Ever use graphite in the oil
very cool ...... you might want to consider hearing protection
Heya Tony, I had my 12v HEI wire wiggle out and have an intermittent connection going down the road. Had a big backfire limping it home and now it burns oil like crazy, any ideas what happened?
So for the initial 20 minute break in, it's better to leave it on the stand . So you can correct any issues. Then after break in you're good to go and Install?
Thanks for the videos btw! Your knowledge and guidance is appreciated very much .
Better grab a boat oar in case of a fire. Just kidding, awesome job guys!
As for break in oil, mainly cause I use as much factory stuff as I can, I just use the oil I'll be running in the engine. For the most part I use Valvoline 10-30 conventional. The assembly lube I use is some flat out the best I've seen is made by GM. Not cheap either at least $20.00 a pint. I wish you had of went over a hydraulic cam not everyone is using roller rocker and flat tappet cams with adjustable rockers.
It’s called eo’s/engine oil supplement & is good stuff for ft cams as you stated.
I have a case of it on the shelf along with crane cams breakin lube for ft cams & lifters too.
If my car has been sitting for a while….like a week or more….I’ll spin the engine with the key for about 10-15 seconds before I touch the accelerator pedal….pumping oil up into the lifters and crank journals before she fires up. Is it hard on the starter? Yep. But I’d rather replace a starter than rebuild the engine.
The most important thing is fill the block with antifreeze/water before you install the thermostat, if not engine will run dry before thermostat opens .
You want to open up a can of worms? Research ( piston ring microwelding ). This can be a result of the incredible heat from new rings cutting into the cylinders. Like tony said this heat from friction usually only happens in the first few minutes of starting an engine with new piston rings.
This true and why on startup I will run without a thermostate, when it gets hot shut it down let it cool and then restart at 2000rpm to polish lobes and lifters some old motors we did we kept a hose in radiator and slightly opened radiator.
What about roller cam breakins?
Tips for cleaning a dressed junkyard engine? Water ok or not ok? Pressure washer ok not ok?
Ok , has anyone actually used Z-max for it's original intended purpose which was the offy engine cam issues ?
Why not warm up the cam and lifters in the oven and let a bottle of Zmax marinate it so the pores suck it up?
And a zddp heavy oil, maybe would help with the flat tappet issue?
The exhaust can glow from the extra oil film burning off. The oil gets pushed into the exhaust as soon as the engine starts and then burns off, making a lot of heat.
Retarded ignition timing makes the exhaust glow. Extra oil burning off doesn't produce enough heat or last long enough to cause the exhaust glow.
@@tonyelliott7734 I had to retard the ignition timing so much on a dune buggy to stop detonation that when driving back to camp the charging system warning light came on and the lights started to dim. When I got out to see what had happened I suspected that I lost the fan belt. Nope the headers were glowing cherry red and had cooked the voltage regulator. That's the last time that engine saw 87 octane gas!
@@davidleonard8369
I believe that 100%. I build and tune engines among other things for a living. And Uncle Tony said the manifolds will glow from excessive friction on initial startup and cam break in of a newly built engine. I have never experienced that in my life. I respect him for his knowledge and won't dispute his claim here on his channel, but I've never seen that to be true.
@@davidleonard8369 ...unless the CR was 10:1 or higher 87 should work just fine with the timing retarded....you got bad fuel or you had another problem
@@ssnerd583
Retarded timing lets fuel that wasn't burned completely in the combustion process continue to burn in the exhaust heating it up and causing it to glow.
Is there such a thing as too much zinc? Ex: vr1 oil with zinc additive. Not that i would do this …but what would happen? If anything.
I'm confused, how does an engine under load increase cylinder pressure? Isn't cylinder pressure a product of static compression and camshaft timing? Zinc for roller cams? Never heard of that. I did find the video instructive though, good job.
Super quick lift and lowbinitial cam load. Spring load another issue