We progressively drill holes in brake drums - what will happen?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2023
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The drums were front mounted for the purpose of the experiment (turns out that Ladas are simple to convert from disc to drum).
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Those drums became so advanced with all the drilling that they evolved into rotors.
More like a sieve than a drum.
😂ikr?
Even though drums have more stopping power. Just saying, it's true
@@lilmike2710yea but drums suck at dispersing heat that’s why race cars use discs
@@joshmanis9860 Yep 👍
But as we can see, they over did it, drilling too many holes. Crossing the threshold between heat dispersion and not enough surface area.
You also have a car for thesting!! ( that's suprise.. or does ot was...
They have all russian ladas loaded on g54 to waiting testing different 'car acgeny' :D
the lad with the cap.. who does the thermal camera.. he is a good lad,, he knows his stuff and machina
They may have started working better with each run just because they were breaking in.
true
If you look at very old racing cars they used drilled drumbreaks back in the day.
It would have been interesting to drive a defined distance after the braking and compare how much the temperatures decreased.
honestly that first test with the holes was really interesting, like absolutely cool
Love your crazy stuff yall do. Glad no one got hurt on that last run-a-way run.
Great work guys, excellent video. Much love from NZ.
Pretty good idea💡. Cooler brakes should mean longer lasting. Wish there will be some study of this someday. There has to be a sweet spot of number of holes, hole pattern, and maybe even hole angles to find the optimal combination for best performance and longevity
why ? disk brakes are superior in almost every single way
Think about the trucking industry, it could help prevent runaway trucks.@@gnaedigerfels
Bad idea, brake drums are designed to reliably stop a vehicle within a certain distance. The introduction of water and dirt will greatly effect both. Interestingly you can buy disk brake with holes, but those are for niche applications only, such as auto racing.
@@gnaedigerfelsNot realy, disk brake are lighter and have better heat disabatience, but that doesnt matter much for normal driving.
Drums are cheaper, more robust and a much longer service life.
Genau... deswegen sind alle modernen LKWs mit Scheibenbremsen rundum ausgestattet.
Trommelbremsen halten bis ans Lebensende aber es kann gut sein, dass das Lebensende deutlich schneller da ist als es sein müsste.
Desweiteren haben Trommelbremsen eine höhere Neigung zum Verglasen der Bremsbeläge und die automatische Nachstellung der Beläge ist deutlich fehleranfälliger.@@jonasstahl9826
Cross drilling never increases stopping distance, it's only purpose is repeatability, to combat brake fade from heat soak after repeated use. The same for finned or drilled drums.
Cross drilling actually decreases the surface area making braking worse for the first stop, but it's outweighed by the ability to continually stop at that same distance. Much the same as race compound pads, they will work terribly at the start but have a higher opperating temperature then start working better, and will be repeatable if maintained within that opperating temperature. They maintain this temperature by air ducting to brakes, vented, crossdrilled and/or slots for de-gassing rotors so they don't overheat whilst continuous hard braking doesn't allow them to cool.
On drums another difference this makes it that as gas/heat/dust builds up between the shoe and the drum they let it spit out so there isn't a cushion of heated air after a few hard stops, I did this to the rear drums(I did less holes and smaller ones) on my astro van and boy did it make a difference whenever i had to slam on the brakes on the highway a few times in a row, they no longer warped and got shaky after 2-3 decelerations from 110kmh to 50 lol
I was getting ready to test this, had the same idea, nice to see a test video before me. Mine are made of steel.
You should redo the first braketest because the brakes weren't braked in so that is why the distance was long the first time. I guess the result would pretty much be the same as for the diskbrakes. Holes can help with cooling but too many makes the whole assembly more prone to break because of less material.
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
I am impressed you were able to improve the braking performance with the first round of drilling. I don't expect you guys to do it but I would like to see the results of a long term test with a similar amount of holes. You may have discovered a genuine advance in technology. 🤔
I've never seen an aluminum brake drum before !
Its not, steel on inside.
I think Pontiac used them?
@@kennethanway7979Buick in the late 60’s had aluminum finned drum brakes which dissipated heat quite well.
Seen them on a 3rd gen Firebird! Stock they're aluminum with steel inserts for the friction surface, they were super lightweight!
Lol this makes me tempted to drill a few holes in my drums, that worked really well!
I definitely appreciate your videos you guys really are having fun with things I enjoy it.
As an American though it seems I'm unable to visit your store.
I think the test is faulted because of the aluminum , it stretched out, I would like to see this done on steel drums and a wet and dry test would be helpful too.
The friction surface is probably a steel ring.
@@MrSpartanPaulit is. Decent thicken too
The aluminum didn't stretch. The steel lost it's tension outwards once part of it broke, so it let go of the aluminum. It's how I get press-fit sleeves out of engine blocks. I cut the sleeve on one side with the boring bar until it's thin enough to stick a pocket ruler behind, then stick a small taped rod down behind it on top of the ruler (so I don't damage the parent bore) and pry inwards. Once the sleeve snaps, you can just pull it out by hand.
@@FuckGoogle502we didnt ask
Both of them failed due to structural integrity that was lost with the drilling. Those pads push out with so much force, plus the added heat, that both of them deformed into 'cones' and they lost all effectiveness. The Aluminum is cast around the steel core and only bonded by the surface tension between the two....which, after all the testing (heat), drilling, and deformation...was gone. This is a VERY cool test, love these guys because they aren't afraid to do anything.
Test from initial set of holes showed an improvement in braking possible from the friction surfaces wearing in to shape, the temperature differences side to side possibly due to the direction of the holes drilled, one side the arc of holes spinning to the forward braking shoe, and the other side arc of holes spinning away from forward braking shoe...also the holes drilled could have become acting as a fan, one side pulling outside air from the wheel to underneath the car and other side pulling hot air from underside of car to outside the wheel...
I love brake rotors without holes. No drill nonsense
The holes have nothing to do with stopping distance . You had a brand new brake and rotors therefore in the first run they would not perform the best. It is normal to have better brakes with every run even with NO HOLES .
Would it be better to put the holes in the side?
they used to do it in the 50s for race cars, drilling drums reduced brake fade over a lap but you wont see any improvement when just coming to a stop
@@topzozzle6319 It also allowed water to vent out of the drums in wet weather conditions to help mitigate the performance loss. Once disc-style brakes got more sophisticated over the years though the performance gain for the drilled drums was lost
@uber sophisticated my ass
This guy comes up with some great ideas i guarontee.
I wonder if you could of drilled some holed on the vertical face between the ribs to help improve the air flow through the drum in combination with the first hold spacing might of helped? Your video was fantastic.
I'd love to see you guys put rear disc/caliper combo from a small car to the front of a lada. Something of a size of yaris, mazda1, lupo etc. Or maybe even motorcycle brakes. Lets see how small will still stop the car.
The brake linings were bedding in - new brake linings don’t perform at their best until they’ve been used a few times.
The braking force is directly proportional to the surface area. When you first drilled the holes, the surface area decreased about 10% but heat buildup decreased and so the braking efficiency stayed normal. Then as you made more holes, the surface area decreased and so the braking force while heat desapitation into the air was high. Lesson: Yes holes help, but just enough of them.
The amount of heat generated from a small car stopping once isn't going to be anywhere near enough to saturate drum brakes. Drilled rotors are completely pointless unless you have a car with enough power to quickly accelerate up to high speed and brake hard over and over again like on a racetrack.
@@rubiconnn They will perform better because stopping less mass centrifugally is easier. But more work is needed to stop because of the lesser mass. Hence stopped better temp stayed even though "vented". Hence more exertion on the proceeding test. The size, weight, and even shape are considerations when designing brakes. The weight of the rotor, drum, plays a significant role because it's also a moving mass that needs to be stopped.
Thank you for this
this might work really well for mud bogging for clearing them up quicker.
when you drive thru deep water and get mud slurry in your brake drums you loose all brakes it might help to clear them quicker.
there is an advantage to this people used to do this for offroad racing. it allows the drum to push out any water so you dont loose your brakes after crossing water it also pushes out sand and dust
Awesome Video
Hope you guys are staying safe and well
I've read about really oldskool guys doing this to drum brakes back in the day. Like in the moonshine running days.
back when everything had drums on all 4 wheels there was a big advantage to drilled drums they push all the water and dust out of the drum so after a water crossing you dont loose your brakes
Good work, gentlemen! :)
I propose 2 more tests. Transverse drilling with slot angled in different directions to see if and in which direction the cooling increases and test with water spray to see if drilled drums lose performance compared to non-drilled ones in wet condition.
Very interesting video and I’d love to see the same testing done with the outside of the drums soaked in water to simulate the rain
I once had slotted a drilled rotors (a cheap eBay kit) and the braking was noticeably better!
you might have hit on a good idea if you can calculate how much surface area you can remove without compromising the strength of the drum, I think a combination of holes and grooves would work best, like a disk brake, when you look at a disk that is drilled and grooved not a lot of surface material is removed to have big gains in braking efficiency,
3:42 18 Year Old Me Spray Painting the Rear Drums on my Yukon & Standing back like "Oho Yes!" loool 1st Person I'm beating up when the Time Machine is ready is gonna be myself. -_-
Interesting and exciting as always
many years ago a Top Truck challenger Had a Bronco that had been converted back to 4 wheel drilled drums from disk brakes because according to him they worked better.
The breaking improves when you drill more holes in the rotor or in this case the brake drum because the more metal you remove the more pounds per square inch gets applied to the brake pad and rotor and allows it to bite on them holes just a little bit I believe
That weight difference is very neglible, rotor weight has very little to do with braking. The difference was that regular drums main weakness is heating, drilling holes allows much more cooling substantially reducing brake fade. Surface area doesn’t affect coefficient of friction at all, force does. So because the brakes were cooler, he was able to push the brakes harder without any fade improving performance.
@@2seep well then that's probably a good thing my comment has nothing to do with the weight of the rotor I feel as if you may not have read the whole comment or you did not understand it at all
@@2seep and yes the holes help with venting clearly but it also helps increase how many pounds per square inch you are putting on the brake pad being less material means the brake pad can actually apply more pounds per square inch on the surface is pressing against
Yeah, but the improved stopping distance can be attributed to the shoes bedding in. You have to bed the shoes in for 500miles really. The holes were helping the bedding in.. less area to bed in. My first cars were all drum brake front ends, they are fine once bedded in but BAD when newly fitted..
I like drum brakes and i'd like them on front brakes too performance wise but they are complicated and behave weird when wet and heat up easily and cool down slow, are also a witch to adjust and break them in, in fact they could drive for a week in town and the shoes would still not be set to the drums.
The performance increase they saw when started drilling them are not because of the holes but because the shoes took a step to break in and maybe quicker.
Seems with the first set of holes drilled, the performance got a lot better. Although, would that increased performance hold up it they got wet?
Here in America they started making aftermarket vented drums around the 1940s I believe, but disc brakes started coming around by the car makes.
This is the same effect of drilling centrifugal clutches for Karting works great till it fails but the amount of holes you can get would blow your mind all whilst keeping it balanced
Out to the driveway with my drill I go!
Dust from shoe wear escapes via the holes maintaining better shoe to drum contact ! 😅😊😊
Una grande idea !
9:48 imagine using the drum on like a hydraulic press, with all the holes.
Fine line between enough and too much!
I think this video is really a good one.
👍 nice work
They will perform better because stopping less mass centrifugally is easier. But more work is needed to stop because of the lesser mass. Hence stopped better temp stayed even though "vented". Hence more exertion on the proceeding test. The size, weight, and even shape are considerations when designing brakes. The weight of the rotor, drum, plays a significant role because it's also a moving mass that needs to be stopped/slowed.
Hey thanks for your videos ! Could you try making an electric turbo for lada ?
Nice one
Seeing the two drums on top of each other … make a rim out of two drums welded together.
the holes in disc brakes arent for cooling but to allow the gasses that build up between the pad and the contact surface to escape that way you dont end up with a boundry layer of gases causing brake fade, thats why things didnt get better after the first round of holes
Brake drums and rotors generate heat faster than they can dissipate it. The mass of metal is a heat sink, and can get saturated. That is why a hard stop from high speed can result in "brake fade", where no matter how hard you step on the pedal, the car will not slow down any more. Also why you do not want to cut drums or rotors, that gets rid of mass. Just replace them.
Victor it`s just experimenting and fun, where would most of us have time to try these experiments.
They will run cooler! Hell yeah!
Ok but let in all air then and brake in the air?
Need to check the temperature of the drums on the outside edge where the shoes rub see what the heat difference is from there
I've heard stories of old loggers using water sprayers on their trucks drums when driving through the mountains to improve their braking. Some swore by it!
Fresh video from the source? Yes, please.
Fresh destruction of brake parts? Yes, please.
If your brakes can lock up the wheels, then they're already working at 100% capacity, with respect to your current tires gripping power.
maybe the holes helped by preventing lock-up ??
Nice !
Very sciencey, much science
Drilled drum brakes, that’s amazing😂
Were there identical tires being used?
Was a dot4/5 brake fluid being used?
Drilled brakes are not for single shorter braking distances. Drilled breaks are theoretically for better heat dissipation after multiple braking zones seen on race tracks.
Each brake drum test should have been a series of 3 back to back brake tests measuring distances and heat before drilling.
how about cutting lines into the rotors?
Here in Brazil we had Ladas too🇧🇷😂👍🏼
What if you drill holes into the clutch disk and flywheel?
I would of stop since the first set of holes. It is allowing gasses to escape from the shoes. There was no contact surface to brake properly with the more holes you drilled. I would of done with the tests with 5 braking test after each modification to see what brake fade would do.
The main advantage of the holes would be to evacuate water getting into the drum.
Drilling drums...hmm. I wonder. Drums, but if they had like...fins/ heat sinks on the outside of the drums that kind of slice through the air. Granted, at the point of trying to upgrade drums, most people would convert to discs., but this is an interesting idea and topic.
Race drums. You're the first! Actually, you're the first in alot of your videos. Don't you dare stop! Keep them coming! Your videos are very entertaining and quite often revealing. You're not afraid of going to the extreme! That's the ticket.
15:30 I wasnt expecting that lol
Maybe new inner lining in the drilled drums?
I would like to see how thin you can make front brake discs and how that affects the braking performance.
No oil on the drill bit ? How any drill bits did you go thru ?
cheers
holes are better for heat dispusion. slots are better for braking cleaning the break dust off the surface,
Air-cooling/vented drum brakes? That's my ideas!
You need to drill holes at the same exact point on each drum and don't put much holes you will loos contact in the breaking
Very funny to watch
Good work
NEW shoes hadn't broken in on 1st run.
Tack weld back in..lol✌️
Slotted rotors will have less stopping distance by default.
But during times of constant, extreme braking, slotted rotors allow better dissipation of heat.
Your honda civic doesnt need slotted rotors.
So now do it all again only this time do it properly. Drums and Disks.
First bed in the brakes 10 x 80 kmh to 40 kmh to bed in the NEW brakes.
Then drive figure 8 route as fast as you can like racing.
You should only get about 5 laps before Brake Fade takes effect. (Stock factory brakes)
Now start drilling and racing the figure 8 again to see how quickly the Brake Fade comes back.
Ive seen drums with heatsinks on the outside of the drum, but never drilled ones :)
watch the beginning, they turned those off.
crazy drums on the from i have never seen that b4 thanks my friend for this great video
Can you please make engine oil cooling with nitrogen cooling by direct shoots on oil reservoir under the engine or by anyway
I think your first stop just bedded the shoes.
hot drums expand and the aluminum separated from the steel liner !!
I want to see you guys put a huge engine in one of those cars and drag race it see how fast you can get in the quarter mile
You should check the temperature after driving some distance after braking
Hey guys love your crazy ass channel! So you have reversed a clutch pedal, made steering more sensitive, you should try reversing everything and see if anyone can drive the car! Maybe brakes should stay the same but gearshift pattern, gas pedal, steering, clutch all reversed. I dare you
ABS breaking on drumbrakes in the front :D
I’ve wondered for years why brake drums don’t have holes in them to help with heat. I guess I’m about to find out.
For your next episode Could you connect a big turbo to the cam pully to see if the car can go faster.
Lmaoooo drilled and slotted drums
How old are those brake shoes? That could make. Difference on how they work, especially in a wet climate when one side gets glazed and the other stays somewhat dryer.
Go back to the start of the video, they have a box of new shoes to go with their new rotors, which means they most likely started all-new. He also says he hadn't tried the brakes until they got to the track, which means the pads may not have had a chance to "bed" into the drums yet, which could explain most of the differences between the first three hard-braking tests.