TESTED: Milwaukee's Spicy New M18 FORGE Batteries
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS torquetestchannel.etsy.com/li...
Edit: The M18 grinder totals 1,060W with the Forge, not 1,160W.
Forge XC6.0: shrsl.com/47tw0
Grinder: amzn.to/3EvCuVl
Saw: amzn.to/3Zg3z8v
1" impact: amzn.to/3sNorYJ
Today we test the new Milwaukee M18 FORGE XC6.0 battery 48-11-1861 and see if the hype and price point are worth it. This includes a lot of different tests, so excuse the speed, strap in and hold on.
~We may earn from qualifying purchase via the links above~
As always, the creator of this channel works in product development for Astro Tools, who don't make cordless impacts but always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!
0:00 M18 FORGE
2:00 What Does it Compare To
3:23 Speed
4:18 Large Grinder
5:24 Cold
6:37 Large Saw
8:13 Teardown
10:40 Voltage Drop
11:56 Drill
12:46 Impacts
14:31 Large impact
15:56 Ranking & Thoughts 
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As much of a Dewalt guy as I am, the Milwaukee implementation of stacked pouch cells here is definitely better than the 5ah PS...same size as a regular 6 but way more beans.
The 1.7PS is sweet, on an impact driver or small drill it's amazing if you have a backup. The 5PS we just dont know where it fits. What's is that thing supposed to be, a wider flatter 6XR?
@@TorqueTestChannel Exactly...the 5ah PS is just weird.
Still waiting on a reasonably good sale to get the 1.7PS up here, prices have been terrible lately :(
I just bit the bullet and picked up a pair of the oil resistant 1.7's. Figured I would cry once and move on.
I like my 5ah PS I use it all the time
Agreed - 1.7 PS is fantastic; 5 PS is an upgrade over the old 5 XR, but not revolutionary like the little 1.7. Hopefully they'll eventually use that tech to breathe some life into their 12v line, too.
I really have to commend you guys once again for the work you do. I truly believe your channel has forced the power tools industry into re-evaluating their products and producing more honest claims. They have to be watching. I guess you could say, TTC has a huge *impact* on the industry.
In all seriousness, keep sticking to what makes you guys great, and thank you for these videos.
This is exciting to see. I have a feeling the new Forge coming next year will be an even more dramatic jump. Can’t wait!
It's certainly better than we expected so far.
Until FLEX moves some muscle again. 🤣
I'm anxious to see if FLEX is looking at Tabless Cells for larger batteries. Or even EGO (Same parent as FLEX). @@TGC1775
Makes no since milwaukee sent alot of small youtubers the new Gen 3 2967 for review but didn't send one to you. I don't think milwaukee likes seeing them numbers and charts.
@@Dbj6988 It's simply because we say no to brands wanting to send us stuff as a channel rule. Other channels getting info and use out there is a good thing though, more the better
As someone who doesn't usually run into runtime issues on my M18 tools, I'd love to see an even smaller/lighter ~3.0Ah pouch pack.
Agreed, Flex's 3.5Ah is a nice sweet spot
@@TorqueTestChannel I'd love DeWalt to do a 2P of the OG 1.7AH PS. Little taller, 3.4Ah, and some decent sauce.
The flex 3.5 overheated fast
Flex 3.5 on my impact is awesome. It doesn't warm up to bad run decking Screws. It does when running multiple timberlocks through.
That's why I love the DeWalt 1.7Ah PS battery. I don't need runtime, but it offers a TINY battery and a ton of power.
We’ve all been waiting for this! Thanks Torque, Test & Channel!!!
I always get a kick out of reading power tool marketing material, especially Milwaukee's. Thank you for the work that you do.
Marketing masters
Milwaukee really does have some fantastic looking marketing lol
I was using them as an example to a young coworker on how to spot BS marketing. Their's is fantastic, and results in sales, but is super easy to poke holes in and laugh at.
Ok if it is that easy give us some examples
@@wpintofg Why?
id imagine this new forge batter is a big upgrade for their chainsaw line of tools too, save a ton of weight but maintain the power and batery life potentally
The biggest issue with the Milwaukee chainsaws is high temperature shutdown. Those motors draw a lot of amperage from an 18v battery.
@@TimberTrainertheres a reason why Husqvarna and Stihl uses 36V batteries.
@@TimberTrainerthis exactly. Need higher voltage which milwaukee is probably gonna end up doing dual batteries
@@alexstromberg7696even there's over heats I returned mine after it kept over heating.
@@alexstromberg7696 or dewalts flex volts at 60
Yes we definitely needed a "bigger" grinder category. Obviously I use grinders a lot and after using one of DeWalt's first FleVolt grinders with a 9ah battery, I would never go back to 20v. The power was awesome!
Too bad the flexvolt grinders have motor issues, at least both of the ones I’ve had experience with.
The 60v flexvolt with a 9ah isnt' actually 9ah, it's 3ah because they have to change the relationship between the batteries.
@@teddly2277 power as in torque. I understand the ("20v"9ah/"60v"3ah). My dcg418 has far more torque than the older 20v grinder.
@@teddly2277any case where that matters the 15ah flexvolt exists
@@teddly2277it isn’t 3ah at 60v either, but if you can needlessly incorrect someone and spread misinformation, then I can, too, right?
I watched the pipeline when these batteries were first announced and got excited but figured I wouldn't run out and buy any until ya'll ran them through a full test... Thank Ya'll!!!
Answering the real questions right here
To fix the 12Ah 3 bar issue, open the case, with a regulated power supply at 21v go directly to the + and - bypassing the PCB entirely and let it charge to 0 amps and let it sit to balance out. Mine has been good since. I always charge mine on a rapid charger and I've had it for 3-4 years at least (whenever they came out)
You can also just hook up a lithium ion smart charger, that works too. Pretty easy. Just connect the leads to the same.
Ive lost 2 so far to the 3 bar. I will try this!
@@Walkop "lithium ion smart charger," can you provide an example? I recently got into M18 (8aH with my string trimmer, two 12aH with the mower). Everything is new enough that it works great, however I do charge the mower batteries twice a week in summer and would like to avoid an issue next season. Thanks.
Can you explain? We hook up DC power supply at 21v and pull it off when it says 0 amps current? I have the 3 bar issue on an 8ah bat I connected it and it shows zero amps from the get go but only 3 bars showing. Maybe that's just depleted cells?
That isn't bypassing the PCB, it's in parallel with it
Would love to see video focused on your test gear, test loads, and other test equipment. Discussing how you developed the testing processes, chose the equipment, maybe even a teardown and look inside the electronic loads..... with some discussion regarding how you chain them together... and the upside or downside of that setup
I really don’t want to know life without TTC! Thank you Guys!!!!
As always, great video, nicely thought out. Thank you!
Thanks so much for doing this comparisons!!
And I love your Dyno graphs as well.
The info, in very specific and wide ranging gained here is invaluable.
Where else could we get real unbiased information on power tools specifically.
We’d be on the job still like “ can you tell the difference?” -- “ oh yea I think so, it sure looks cool”
Hehehe
Great stuff. 🥇
Thanks for another great video, and all the work you do to make this content. You are the rainbows and gumdrops. And a sweet, sweet fizzy soda. :)
Great channel great content. Been waiting for this one and you did it well. Thanks 👍👍💪💪
Look forward to the Makita BL4040F battery video. Tools and Stuff did a nice overview.
👍
Most anticipated video of the year!
Fantastic testing! Great info you provide. Subscribed, baby! 🤩🙌
I love your videos! The tech specs are awesome and your videos are easy to understand and well laid out.
Wow today is a great day, both you and tools and stuff testing new major battery releases!
Speaking of which, this pack would imho be better off with new murata 21700 4ah tabless 21700 cells. It would have more capacity, better quality and similar if not better power level. They are using them in the new mx fuel packs and judging by the animation you shown here for the new level 5 upcoming packs.
Before TTC came along, we all just kind of guessed and had opinions we spouted out as if they were facts. Thanks fellas.
This is perfect. I run the 3/4 impact all the time and my biggest issue is run time/diminished performance after the battery drops to two bars. A 12.0 would help that issue but holding up the already beefy impact plus the huge 12.0 is a recipe for soreness. As soon as I saw the forge announcement I was waiting for you guys to get your hands on it. Great job.
Yep. I used normal 5.0 in my trimmer and I got 6.0 and it does way better and seems to last alot longer.
@johnsmith-bo2cz I have a quick lock trimmer with a 3.0 lasts 30mns, weed eater/wacker lasts 15mns and the blower sucks less than 10mns on rabbit 🐇
so whata ya think? i run a 6.0 ho. upgrading to forge? idk maybe when my h.o die.
This is exactly what all of us were waiting to see the torque test Channel test the forge battery, with that being said what we're all waiting for is a forge 12.0 or even a 15.0 xc the Milwaukee 9 in Cut Off saw is an amazing tool that eats through batteries like crazy
Another great video. Thanks for all the hard work.
Your attention to detail and integrity makes your videos a pleasure to view. Thank you.
I’m not moving to the Forge for at least 2 years. In 2023, I added five 6ah HO, two 3ah HO, and two 12ah HO.
And on top of that, a kit I bought this summer came with the old school 5.0 (ugh)
The old 5.0 are still great batteries on certain tools. As shown on the video, impacts, radios, fans, and some other tools don’t really benefit from the high outputs. I try to cycle my cheaper, weaker batteries and keep my high outputs “fresh” when I’m at home and extra batteries are on hand. I love the small, “weak” 2.0s for my drills and impacts. They die quick but charge quick too.
I live in Alaska, I can say the Milwaukee batteries are champs in the cold. Funny thing is, if you use it and it bogs down, you can just keep pulling the trigger and the internal waste heat keeps slowly bringing the pack back to life as you use it.
what the?
Best tool channel on RUclips 💯
This opens up new questions!
First: lipo tend to die quick when ran hard. How often do i have to replace these!
Second: seeing how safe(not at all) my rc lipo's are. Will these burn my house down to?
Third: li-ion doesn't mind being shelved fully charged that much. Will these lipo batteries be dead when i need them if i leave them charged for a long time?
I usually take advantage of the kitted "special buy" tools/batteries from HD or Acme Tools. Looking forward to seeing if Forge comes in with some deals going into Black Friday or Christmas
As a professional homeowner, I'll still stick with my 5.0's given the opportunity. But I could certainly see how a Forge battery would be excellent with the already overweight framing nailer or a circular saw/sawzall up on a roof
We have a fleet of 2767 and XC 5 batteries. Biggest problem we have with them is that they rattle themselves to death over time and the battery gets so loose in the tool that you have to tape it in every time you change battery. Even in the Milwaukee-sourced promo material you showed in this video you can see the HO 12.0 bouncing around in the 3/4". Not really sure how Milwaukee solve this while maintaining backwards compatibility.
I have to say, you guys really do a great job finding and communicating the performance interactions between tools and batteries. I really like to understand what is going on when I choose and use things. When I got my first battery powered tools- really not that long ago - it was all a black box to me. I've subsequently spent some time on the internet learning (as well a seeing real-life tool performance). I feel like I understand it all pretty well now, and I have to say that you were probably the number one resource in getting me there. Thanks!
Some amazingly good tests there that really help to cut through the marketing to the reality. I've got a pile of red batteries, but I have to confess to a little bit of desire to drop a Forge into my bag.
Battery comparison is the best!!
I really appreciate you making this video, since I wanted to get another battery. Did not want to pay $250 for an 12.0 when I can get a newer forge battery that's a little more worth the price point
awesome video. exactly what i've been wondering! you talked me out of the forge, for now lol. good info! ive been running the 6.0 ho. if i did more grinding i would need the forge. i have noticed that grinding does whip it down quick.
It would be nice to see a refrigerated testing too. I always keep my batteries inside and take them out in the cold. They never make it down to the frozen temp but they are definitely cooler than room temp after 15 mins
I can’t wait to see the forge battery paired with the new high torque impact wrench!!! That thing is already a beast!!! Plus this extra output would be great for power inverters and battery banks!!
RUclips in 2020: Wood chips and stop watches *RUclips w/ TTC* Here's an entire dissertation on what this new thing can do measured a dozen ways.
Man, brands can't get away with anything now-days! Nervous marketing departments re-editing their claims as we speak.
excellent animations easy to understand
You should try testing the different chargers that these brands offer. I have a m18 supercharger, it seems to charge fast but at 250 dollars it would be nice to know if it was really worth the money i paid for it. I have also heard that these high speed chargers can damage your batteries, is that true too? I know dewalt offers these charger too so it might be worth testing.
The batteries will only take in a certain amount of amperes and it will be safe. Won't degrade lithium doing so. It's a great charger but for the price... Meh. It's the "simplest" way but a regulated power supply would be cheaper if you know what you're doing.
Yes, faster charging decrease lifespan. This is why my fancy Anker battery pack has a trickle charge mode.
@@TheTastefulThickness LifePo4 shows very little to no more ill effects compared to "slow" charging.
Fast discharge is going to have a significant impact however.
Li-Po is one chemistry that you'll also see ill effects from fast charging over time.
I do not recommend draining the battery and immediately putting it on the fast charger, certainly not taking it off immediately and discharging again. Of course there is safeties in place for thermal but heat is by far the biggest killer.
@@TheTastefulThickness I know there is plenty of articles saying it's bad to fast charge lithium. However when there's not a chemistry mentioned you can certainly disregard that information. I realize above I said "lithium" and that's my mistake. Tool batteries are LifePo4 and to my knowledge that is the only chemistry being used at this time. (For good reason)
1C charging hardly consider as fast charge 😅
You're a master bro, videos are absolutely first class.
Awesome video! That 6AH LiPo is bad azz!
Would love to see all of makitas 40v xgt F series batteries bl4080f,bl4050f and the new 4040f tested and maybe update all the rankings. especially interested in the hammer drills performance
Great test. Thanks for all the time and effort these tests must take. Seems like a great battery. I wonder, did you guys upgrade your hammer drill chart and standings using the 2904-20 with the Forge? I'd really like to see that and how it's standing would change. Thanks!
Great review love your channel, Thank you. Question, shouldn't the working torque and max torque beans also changed since it did hit harder in those times, for an overall better score? From the beans I see by putting the video on pause at 5sec and 10 sec of testing, I think it beat the Ingersoll Rang in working torque and max torque but not the 15 sec TQ.
Amazing test, as usual!
I'm really curious how the new M18 Angle Grinder with a 6,0 Forge performs against say the Makita 40v grinder the the BL4040F battery.
Also...
Milwaukee needs to give us a new table saw that runs off 2x M18 batteries and option for corded. Run 10" blades and dado stacks, sturdy optional cart.
And where's the updated M18 Surge? Or M18 installation driver that another RUclipsr discovered a patent for last year?
Yes. This. Where is the updated Gen 2 M18 Surge? I've been waiting over 5 years for an update. Lol
Bunch a good data here folks. Good job TTC
Good to see the forge are still at least backwards compatible. This Channle is wade ultimately made me buy into Milwaukee. Hope the new Gen 3 high torque beats dewalt. But you also turned my onto Astro for airtools.
I do big demo jobs and this forged 6.0 is great! Specifically when you don’t get tired from a massive 12.0 , when you’re up 22’ feet in the air!
Iv been using that very milwaukee saw for 3 years now. Its a beast. I have a Gen 2 that iv had for 7 or more, and theres a big difference.
And the gen 2 was a big difference before that.
Best tool channel by far. I will not own any of the brand name tools until they are at least 5 years old but every episode is still just as exciting as your first toolkit for Christmas.
My wall outlets handle 1500W all day, barely even get warm. Of course my house does have very thick gauge wiring and outlets that were made in the 60s. I’ve had to replace just one, took it apart to compare to modern outlets and the actual internal contacts on my old outlets were around twice the thickness of the new ones.
I was at oreillys the other day and noticed they sell a few battery powered impact wrenchs one was $80 and the other was like $150 please test these i almost bought one just to have in the truck but i rather hear how it fares the torque test channel ❤ ur content stay safe
New 4ah makita would be great to see
I wonder how much the possibility of these bloating/swelling caused them to make a stronger case? Pouch cells like to do that with age.
The shape of it fits the circular saw perfectly.
I own the Makita BL4080F, would you like me to send it to you guys? Also, I am going to get my hands on the new BL4040F. People are saying the cells in the 4040F can discharge 50-60A!!!
I have that saw and I run it with my 9 ah high outputs. I absolutely love it it's the best circular saw I've ever owned.
Been waiting for this one
I've owned 1 dewalt product in my life, it cost me $375 for a hammer drill, this when they first came out back in (I beleive was in 98 or 97) and that thing failed miserably, i took it back to homedepot 5 times before the denied my exchange, they called the cops on me, i explained the situation to the cops, and cops told them: we can't trespass him when he's got a receipt and an item to return and just because you feel like it, NO, they finally returned me my money back and i never, ever, evaaaa bought a dewalt product again, I'm gonna spend my money on inferior product, no matter how much they've improved , I like pound for pound, that means ryobi, I'm no longer a tradesman and sometimes I use power tools. They last me years.
nice test thank you
I am still glad that I own Ryobi tools and that I don't have to worry too much about all these batteries. But if I ever do run into the need to have a 1-in electric impact then I guess I have to get a forge battery to make good use of it for a short period of time unless I get HD 12.0.... anyways I'm going to go and proceed to put a four amp hour battery in my saw and fix some things.
I use LiPo’s in my rc cars. The issue is they swell and catch fire from time to time. I keep my lipos in a 50cal ammo box. If I had these batteries, I’d do the same.
The forge battery and new high torque impact is a beast. Got mine yesterday
Can't wait to see the 12.0 forge. Also - wish Milwaukee would make a battery conditioner/balancer. I'd even be willing to have it as a separate item not intended to replace chargers just to use when a battery gives the dreaded 3 bar full charge. It would also be great to have a storage mode where it would charge batteries to a point for longer term storage for those of us that aren't daily warriors. By the way none of my 9.0's have had any problems - all doing great and they are 5+ years old. I've had one 12.0 do the 3 bar full charge but that is an expensive battery to crap out long before it should.
Battery technology keeps getting better. A couple of weeks ago, some Milwaukee fanboys told me their ten year old batteries are performing just as good as new ones. They are either super exaggerating how long they have been running their batteries or ignorant to the new technology that keeps coming. The modern battery tools are leaps and bounds better than they used to be.
please test the 4 1/2 grinder HO 6 VS the forge
My favorite tool channel! Would love to see if the Forge brings any more beans to the mid-torque…or are you waiting until there are more forge options to test that?
Video request!
I'm a climbing route builder looking for a new sds rotary hammer. I'd love to see you guys go over some of the available options. Weight, battery life and drilling speed are all factors I'm interested in. You've got a video on compact ones from last year, but those are all too small for our use case. Just not enough beans. Help me see the beans
I'm surprised it didn't make nearly any more power on the 2767. That flex pack jumping it to 24v must have really been the key and now I'm surprised it took it happily
Putting 24V into an M18 is like forcing nitrous into a car that wasn't designed for it, it can work - you just cross your fingers. But big results. The FORGE is like bigger injectors, if the thing wasn't already hungry for more fuel it's not going to need it all that much.
I’m currently manually rebalancing my HD 12.0 with a bank of resistors and a fan hooked up to a breadboard lol.
It’s and easy way to fix the dreaded 3 bar max charge but it takes a while.
I like this new Forge pack though, I’m glad I didn’t buy more HDs recently.
The issue I see is when the voltage doesn't droop as the current raises the wattage increases. The new battery will provide power that an old tool wasn't designed to have available.
Mix that with a heavy hand or sticky finger and you're left with something smoking.
I think it would be cool for you guys to rank all the different brands batteries performance on the same tool with battery adapters.
Assuming battery adapters have 0% loss, which we're testing
Higher-end tools like Milwaukee M18 Fuel "talk" with their batteries to get optimal power out of them without overheating them. Most likely this functionality would break when adapting them. Might be an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't do with borrowed batteries.
Can you guys maybe just hook up the batteries to an elctronical load (sorry not sure for correct english terminology) so we can see how many watts each battery can actually supply?
@@crazy031089they do that already though. They just did that this video…
I don't know if you get them across the pond, but in the UK we have two options for brushless Milwaukee grinders. There's the "Fuel" (with various different switch options and variable speed) and the newer non-Fuel "Brushless" which is rated at a much higher RPM. Plus the brushed one which we can safely ignore.
They sell for about the same amount of money, it would be really interesting to see if the higher RPM one is better for certain applications than the Fuel.
We do have them
Great video great info
I've been patiently waiting for miluakee to step their game up and I can say km not disappointed. I've bled, red, for many years and will likely continue to. Hope they come out with some cool m12 batteries next. They're just more comfortable for what I do.
Insiders report that after they do a whole line up of forged batteries for m18 they are going to do forge m12
@afterlife-sama3205 hope it's not far in the future
Can't wait to see what the 2967 puts down
I use the Milwaukee 3/4 impact with the 6.0 to do semi truck wheels daily. You cant beat it. Ive tried the 1in d handle from Milwaukee. The 3/4 is imo much better, its plenty strong enough and hammers many times faster which results in a faster tire removal as well as the weight difference. For semi tru6the 3/4 is the way to go
Great, now I want the big impact wrench.
TTC delivers yet !! Thanks for that video i look foward getting my hand on the 2 forge i preorder like 1 month ago ...
Whats the IR temp meter that you are using? I like the large screen on it.
can we get m12 forge lol
I wonder how the new batteries would do on their M18 shop vac line......that seems like an ideal use case, even moreso than the big impacts and saws
Yeah the vacuums drain the batteries really fast
Great, more Milwaukee tools I "need" to buy. I wonder what the difference longevity of pouch cells vs cylindrical cells might be in these applications. Would pouch cells be more likely to overheat or even catch on fire due to having a larger critical mass (as it were) of reactive material? What about their durability under vibration, etc? I know you're not the Durability or Longevity or Safety Test Channel, but I think delving further into those dimensions in comparing tools could be a very complementary expansion on your current work. How well would that HF or Amazon brand stack against the likes of Milwaukee, Makita, and Dewalt if these additional metrics were applied? Ryobi can seem like a great deal, but their batteries are notoriously unreliable, and often more expensive than the tools themselves. At any rate, your channel is already quite useful, informative, and entertaining, as was this video.
Good to see others doing pouch style batteries. At the size, the DeWalt 5Ah PS battery doesn't make sense to me as a home gamer. The 1.7 is perfect as it offers high power in a tiny package, and runtime is never an issue for me. But the 5Ah seems like a weird middle ground.
Can you run the 2967-20 with a HO 6.0 vs the Forge 6.0 please?
Can't wait till u test the new dcf961!! And their new sealed head ratchets! 😃
yep...they always break when used on Impact tools.
Awesome review. My son and I watch your show all the time. (He's eight) While watching this he asked are they going to test table saws? I told him I'd ask. He wants to know which cordless table saw brings the "beans". Lol
We are Milwaukee boys. Keep up the good work.
Would you buy forge 6.0 or xc 8.0 for circ saw grinder and sawzall
Do you have a video about how to fix the 12.0 batteries that drop down to only three bars when charged?
Throw a wire wheel on that grinder and see how long it runs.
I determined that it uses an amp hour per minute.
Grinding and cutoff wheels, its awesome.
Wish Milwaukee would make a plug in adapter for this reason.
I wish i could keep my 2767 together to take advantage of these 7 months old and its at the rebuild shop for the second time already, been without it this time for going on 3 weeks now
Did I hear correctly that it should have a shorter run time? My HD12 is just about dead so I need a replacement for my weed wacker. I go thru 3 XC 8 batteries to do our jungle, is the Forge going to help in that regard?
New Snap-on 3/8” cordless stubby impact claiming 525 ft-lb breakaway and 275 ft-lb fastening, would be interested to see it on the Dyno! CT9038.
Since it is a LiPO pouch, they will eventually swell up and fail, either slowly or catastrophically. I would still prefer to use battery packs with 18650 LiIon cells instead, they are more forgiving of storage conditions with regards to storage voltage.
18650 specifically or 21700’s or just cylindrical cell batteries
I wish they would use these to supercharge small tools. Like imagine a ratchet that’s actually the size of a normal ratchet or even if it’s still big imagine it actually putting out respectable power. Or a tiny impact or replacing the m12 lineup entirely.