Why Battery Size Doesn't Matter on Your Milwaukee Impact (as much) CP3.0 XC6.0 XC8.0 HD12.0
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2021
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Note that these results likely only apply to 3/8" and 1/2" M18 impacts, larger tools like their 1" likely draw enough amps to make batteries become the bottleneck (we'll see!). There's been a lot of talk about how strapping on a larger M18 battery will get the job done for a lot of guys. Let's see the actual difference on a few different impact wrenches and why that difference might be.
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It's a long one, have some time stamps. 1:41 Battery dimensions and price 4:27 New cell size 6:16 XC5.0 6:26 CP3.0 6:59 XC6.0 7:32 XC8.0 8:44 Samsung 30T vs 40T cell differences. 9:32 HD12.0 15:27 HD12.0 in a high torque 10:55 battery ranking 15:57 our suggestions.
Our conclusions apply to 1/2" M18 models (so far), working on and researching for this video after seeing these results caused us to rethink our perceptions on these tools like maybe you are right now. The fact may be that decent sized Milwaukee M18 batteries were already "too good" for compact, mid torque and high torque impacts to see a huge gain from these new HO batteries. This has caused us to want to find an M18 1" impact and see if that's where the tables turn. But for now, we're taking a break on Milwaukee as we have lots of cool tools on the bench you'll want to see coming up!
Good sirs, you should pin this comment to the top. :D
This is absolutely nothing to do with using this tool on a job
Forge please. Wanna know if I should buy it for my mid-torque.
What about CP1.5 and CP2.0?
The Best All around battery for the 18v fuel Hackzall is the High Output 6ah battery?
Besides the forge....
Flat out info and the opposite of shouting. I dig it. I'd bought a couple 3.0 to make a lighter package for my M18 Mid Gen2, and now I can use it with full confidence knowing there's only a tiny penalty for the significant size/weight savings vs. the 6.0 and 8.0 I already had. Thanks for a great video and keep it up!
Opposite of shouting😂😂😂😂 I know who and what you mean🤝
Vince
Lol the shouting bit got me 🤣
Only a 3.0? I guess if that works for you. Im going with a 6.0 but Im muscular so I can handle the weight easy.
just wondering how many medium size bolts, maybe tyre lug nuts the 3ah can handle before it start dying? any experience? im weighing which to get now. 3ah enough or more.
This channel is getting better and better!
Y'all helped a lot of people on this one. That 1/2 impact is a hell of a tool and it's nice to know the older 5.0 XC's still put down around 95% of the power of the 6.0 High Outputs
This channel is underrated! I highly appreciate your effort in pointing out the paper tech aspects vs. actual use. More reviews please!
This is utterly fantastic and I am so appreciative of all your work, guys! All my 5.0s are all aged out, and while I take care of my battery packs they are getting long in the tooth. The constituent cell construction of the 6.0 is appealing considering cost and output delivery.
Thanks, lads!
I can always count on you guys to give me the information I'm looking for. Always my go to channel for real testing!
Good to see some data to back me up in deciding to run 3.0s on my impact. I always keep a fully charged 6.0 on standby in case something is super stuck though. It had made the difference for me in the past so I wasn’t surprised when that one topped out the torque test
Ahhhh. Live moving graphs are the bees knees. 😂 thanks for another awesome vid!
If this channel is ever big enough to need a comment moderator, you're it Tsunauticus. Def our OG #1 fan :)
@@TorqueTestChannel lol I appreciate it. You have an awesome channel here.
@@TorqueTestChannel “ever gets big enough” just keep pumping the videos out! You’ll be there in the next 4 months!
@@TsunauticusIV to all egg,; r the, 6 BB, . If
Couldn’t come at a better time! I was literally looking for this information today.
So that's why the 12 was better in breaking out the lugs on my son's truck. More quick power. Thanks for the video
We have 6.0 and 8.0 for our 1/2 inch impacts and thats absolutely accurate. Those 6.0 are better than those 8.0. We no longer use 8.0 just 6.0 and we put in hundreds of 12 inch 3/8 lag bolts daily.
The 5.0 are kinda ho hum doing it. But definitely 6.0 are kick ass.
Totally agree here. I noticed that my 6.0 HO batteries outperformed any other (8 and 9), except the 12. But their power seems the same, only that the 12 will last a bit longer. But if we consider the ratio weigh/performance, the 6 is the best of all (for me).
People seem to think the Amp HOUR number on the side of the battery indicates how much power output it has. Negative. That just indicates the amount of run time it should give respectively. The output all depends on the Amp rating of the cells used, and what type of work they are being required to give.
Aka C rating
What's interesting is that as a general rule, lithium batteries are a trade off when it comes to amp hour rating vs power output. A high amp hour lithium cell generally has a lower power output, whereas a lower amp hour lithium cell will usually have a higher power output. This probably doesnt affect milwaukee stuff since they get a larger amp hour rating by just increasing case size and using more 18650 cells.
@@MegaDysart I know the M18 regular XC 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0 all are identical size, so the difference must be the specific 18650s used. Not sure if the 5.0 would output more or less than the 3.0 would
Thank you. I have said this same thing. The electric motor will pull what it can pull.
EXACTLY MATE ! Are you and I REALLY the ONLY ones that realise this ?
More excellent "myth-busting"! I try to explain for people the difference between power density and output measurements but nobody cares much to listen. You've done a killer job here of laying out the difference between two popular battery packaging technologies and how those big marketing numbers really play into the "usability equation". Looks like there are some clear advantages, just not as many as Milwaukee would have us believe.
I've tried. pulling up information like this before to help explain some basic electrical principals and this is by far the best summary out there for power tools. I especially appreciate the columns where you break down price per gain or price per ft/lb. Very useful information there!
Thank you! We're not experts, but try to put out data and maybe make sense of it sometimes
@@TorqueTestChannel nice
Upgraded from an older 18v kit. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I independently chose the drill and impact tool, before I came across the kit.I like the 3 speed impact gun. It seems more powerful than my older one, and it can be set to be really gentle. The drill is more appropriately sized for my use. I used to have a hammer drill, but I did not like that it was so big and it was not a great hammer drill. I rather have a smaller drill like this, and then get a corded hammer drill for the odd case I need that.
love your videos, so far you've covered every possible thought or idea that i had while watching
Thank you gentlemen for doing these. I value where my money goes and how much tool I get for it. Plus I know this isn’t exactly cheap for you guys. I appreciate it
I am glad to see a difference in tool performance using different batteries, it backs up one of my experiences with them. I have actually experienced a situation where my xc 5.0 would not touch the exhaust manifold to crossover pipe bolts on a old truck, and I put my HO8.0 on and it took everyone of them off with just a couple of impacts. So, even though the difference is minimal it actually has been enough to make a difference, at least in one application in my experience.
We agree, there's situations in real life life siezed parts and rust a dyno would never pick up and show you. Manifolds are great examples.
dude amazing amazing content. I purchased the new mid torque recently and have a pair of 6.0s to work with. i found out only afterward that the 6 and the 8 are the same size and felt like i got screwed over, but it seems like i made the right decision!
Fantastic channel and analysis. I agree with your statements. I have AEG (Ridgid) tools and the grinder or chainsaw are almost useless with the old original 5ah batteries but the new "Force" 3 and 6ah batteries provide plenty of power. On the impact wrench is difference is far less dramatic.
It’s awesome how deep research you did this. You just saved me some money
Excellent analysis! I absolutely love your videos! keep'em coming
Great analysis. Cell chemistry/quality are and always have been a huge factor. The balance between capacity and amp output is widely misunderstood. It's not at all surprising when you look at the cells in detail. It was the reason that NiMH cells never really made it to prime time on power tools. NiCads had much higher amp drain capacity. Nice work!
Awesome test. Hats off. I just subscribed. Most tool review channel don't understand the difference between amps and amp/hours. I would love to see a similar test with these batteries using a direct drive tool like a circular saw.
You’re absolutely right! Higher capacity has a trade off - which is max amp draw. I found the same thing.
The 6.0HO is the workhorse, and 12.0 for my table saw and high draw tools.
Quality content, excellent unbiased and comprehensive 👍🏽 I don't think I will be upgrading to the HO batteries, unless my XC/HD batteries with 18650 cells were to fail outside their warranty period.
i have an XC and there's a difference in run time vs my 4.0. I just looked and the XC is 54Wh vs 72Wh on the 4.0.
I just found this channel and love it. Awesome stuff man!!!!
I primarily use a 2853-20 (and my old 2753-20 for smaller fasteners because the new Gen doesn’t really have a “soft” #1) and the difference between a 48-11-1815 (CP1.5) and a48-11-1865 (XV 6.0) is absolutely enormous. The smaller batteries just never chooch.
Looking forward to seeing the Octane vs regular Li-Ion Ridgid batteries!
Best. Explanation. Ever.
Very informative, great job, keep up the good work!!
Excellent video!
Thank you for putting it together
Excellent video. I looked for the Ridgid test but couldn't find it.
BTW, I'm an automotive instructor. I'm going to add your channel to my syllabus. Excellent information.
That's awesome. Rigid's coming up, that was just a sneak peak of very recent testing.
Funny thing is, being a sparky, and enjoying the principals of electronics as a hobby, and vehicle mechanics because I am cheap, I ended up doing this exact test about a year ago. I had the xc 4.0 batteries, and they were on their last legs, not able to give enough torque to the m18 mid-torque impact to remove a strut bolt, so I went out and bought the 6.0 two pack instead of the 12.0 single. I am glad that I made the right choice, based solely on battery style rather than sheer size.
All said, I guess you could say that the 6.0 is like better fuel in a smaller tank and the 12.0 is like slightly crappier fuel in big tank.
The 12.0 is a beast in my blower. As far as Run time.
@@larrytate1657 it would be. Bigger tank. But, I can be charging one 6.0 and using the other instead of having to wait... Unless you have a few 12.0 batteries, in which case, you're a richer man than I.
Another great video. Wish I could give more then just one like per video. Looking forward to the two follow-up tests.
This is EXACTLY what I was wondering. It seems that a lower number of cells is ok as long as it produces an equal number of amps
As an older, wiser tradesman I love this channel. You guys do a superb job and so well done. I get more understanding here than any other tool review channels. Best2U Always
Good stuff to know. Glad I chose the XC 6.0s when I got into these tools a couple of years ago. Would like to get a couple of CP 3.0s to make my drill and driver a little less awkward on/ in my toolbelt.
Well I’ll be dipped!! Good thing I bought the 6.0 👌🏽
Just subbed, can't wait to see what you have in store. Great video btw!
Awesome! Thank you!
i have a 8 and a 6, i how ever still like the 5 the best, strictly because the size isnt so forward. makes it easier when using shorter sockets
ALWAYS wait for sales and stay inform so you don’t have to pay the Milwaukee premium, I got the 2767-20 for $165, the 12.0 batteries at $115, just got to stay informed
What tool sales websites give out these great sale prices? Never seen these low prices at HD
I go to northern tool normally. You can get 100$ of a kit if you but a 14.99 accessories such as bits or something that you will use anyway. So a 360$ tool kit cost 275$ with two batteries and a charger and you get a bit set or whatever with it. The also do military discount if you qualify for it
I absolutely can tell a difference in battery sizes in the first 3 seconds of using the tool, but not much difference after that. I’m super happy to see that reflected in your tests!
The major difference comes in extremely extended run time.. I work in heavy equipment repair, and mainly do use the 6.0 ah batteries. Now, my 5.0 Batts will do most of the time, but occasionally with very rusted junk, need to up to a heavier battery. And it isn't always the first couple seconds that cracks it loose. I do believe the compumatation crap going on in the tool itself also matters. Cause trust me, most of the time it takes quite a bit longer than 15 seconds to crank on the bolts holding some of this crap together.
great video, thanks for all the info, keep them coming.
I believe higher capacity cells often have lower max current outputs, so since the 6.0 and 8.0 batteries have the same layout it makes sense that the 8.0 would have slightly less power output.
But I bet after a couple of lug nuts, the 8.0 would produce more power as it maintains the same voltage for longer. So I guess for the weekend warrior, 6.0. Mechanic 8.0
Quality content bro keep it up
Great video bud. Your definitely helping me with my purchase. Thanks
Very well made video, thanks!
I love this video so much!! Finally a video to prove my touths!!
When I tell people that they will not have a huge gain in performance just because they get a higher amp battery, they look at me like if I'm an alien or so....
It's like you swap your fuel tank from a 50 Liter to a 100 Liter tank, will your car get more horsepower??
This was a great video. Very informative and helped me realize that I don't need the biggest battery possible for the tools I'm using. Thank you.
Great work, brother.
Hey thanks. We appreciate it
Great video as always gents!
tell that to my ex-wife. freggin size queen.
The 5.0 still work just fine in the mid torque wrench. I never had any issues with power removing a bolt.
Love this channel! Would love to see ryobi compared to hart/HF and some of the other budget brands
Next Wednesday :)
Very well done video. Great info.
Now I know why the 6.0 batteries are just as expensive as the 8.0 batteries online. Had $2600 worth of Milwaukee tools stolen from me at work (several 9.0ah, one 6.0ah and a bunch of tools) and I preferred the 6.0 to any other battery I owned. So now that I'm rebuilding my tool arsenal, I figured I would replace the 9.0 and 6.0 batteries with 8.0's, especially if they are the same price. Now I'm kind of wishing I would have gotten mostly 6.0 batteries.
Damn good information guys keep it up.
great, thanks for the valuable information you have given.
Great video! I"m looking to add some batteries to my XC4.0 batteries that are about 5yrs old, and I was hoping to get a couple HO CP3.0 batteries. Since I have a mid-torque impact wrench for working on my 2004 Silverado as well as a Surge impact driver and a hammer drill, it looks like I need... a XC6.0 for the mid-torque, and the CP3.0 for the others. Dang it, you're costing me more money!
$179 at Home Depot for that 2 battery pack
Great video, I’m feeling pretty good about my 6AH’s now. Didn’t realize they have different cells. Recently I had to use my drill driver to start a snowblower motor because the pull string broke. The 2ah XC had problems and would stop&quit flashing its lights fully charged. But the 6AH powered though no problem delivering impressively torque to start the motor. Now I’m wondering if the 3AH you used in this test would have been adequate. At any rate I’m glad I have the new 3’s as well. Thanks for doing this, again great vid!
The best indicator of a battery's power is the weight compared to Amp hours. The way to make a battery deliver more power (at the same Ah), is to cramp more material into it, thus making it heavier. Many times, you can see from the weight alone that they are lying about Ah and/or power output (C rating).
Fantastic information
Thanks for showing and explaining the battery’s
Once in a blue moon, you can get the 8.0 and 12.0 for dirt cheap. I got my pair for $150. And I use the crap out of em. The only thing I don't use my 12.0 on that often, is my M18 fan, due to the height of the battery being too tall for the fan to sit on its base properly.
Wow so glad I watched this! I was about to buy a ho 8.0 thinking it was the same size/weight as the 6.0
It is roughly the same size and weight
@@TorqueTestChannel yes, but the price is different and the performance is similar, actually a bit worse for the 8. Huge surprise!
Subscribed. Well I'm getting the 6.0 then instead of the 8.0
Well, that's very informative test, thanks alot bro, that's a really helpful test for me since i have the 5, 8 and 12 Ah, it would be more intersting if it has been tested in hammer drill or grinder though, keep the great work, cheers!
Great video from what I see is the 6.0 is better value for the money if you need some more torque. I will definitely be saving some money.
amazing test and explanation
Some of the best 18650 and 21700 battery cells are made by samsung and molicel. They have some of the highest safe amperage draws and the batteries are well crafted. I know this because I vape and had to learn a lot about batteries. Intriguing that my Milwaukee tools use samsung batteries
Excellent video. Getting into project farm territory now lol.
I know the XC 5.0 batteries overheat pretty quick when used with the metal cutting circular saw from Milwaukee and it really needs the high output batteries to run it continuously without having to stop and let the batteries cool down.
Years ago I bought a kit with the 1/2 and 3/8s impacts. The first gen I think, 450 claimed ft lbs for the 1/2. They came with 2 AH compact batteries and they were extremely disappointing in regards to the breaking loose power. Especially the 1/2 inch. I bought a 6.0 HO a while back and it really did make them a lot better. Still pretty pathetic compared to the newer stuff but at least they will take the wheels off of something bigger than a kia. I would have more team red tools if they had sold me tools with a battery capable of running the tool. I have bought 1 used 3/8 drill and that's it, only because of how big of a let down my first experience was. I just go for the snap-on air gun in the shop.
I have a brushed makita xwt04 and it is a different tool with the 6.0 battery on it instead of the 3.0. You can really hear a difference in the no load rpm.
Dude! I was thinking this except M12!
Hands down favorite battery is the hd9.0, wish they hadn't discontinued them, in my experience yes the 21700 cells put out higher amps, but all of my 21700 packs have had significantly shorter lifespans and the added size really isn't worth the higher amps
They had a terrible warranty rate. Its 3000mah 18650 cells stacked 5s3p. We still have one at work. If we are using a high drain tool, usually the string trimmer, it will overheat before its empty. For the big batteries we have it is easily the least useful one.
Nice work
Makes sense the 1inch drive with a 3.0 will make more power then the 1/2 with 12.0 Still interesting to see the difference on same tool.
Ok here is for me:
I use the Milwaukee blowers, and every time the 8.0 last several minutes more than the 6.0
And I noticed the difference cuz I use both of them at the same time, one on each hand.
I alway ended up dropping the 6.0 blower and the difference is significant to be honest.
Thanks i was curious how the 6 and 8 would differ in the leaf blower application.
This is very informative. Unfortunately, manufacturer can switch battery cell supply anytime whenever they can find a cheaper deal.
Awesome. Great job.
Since I do not wrench everyday for a job or use my impacts daily I usually just buy the tool only and buy a good knock off from Amazon. They work fine for what I need but I would not count on them if I was using the tool every day. Thanks for sharing
Should have included the M18 CP2.0 battery since that is the battery Milwaukee includes in some kits with the mid-torque impact wrench
A friend of mine has a tyre business, and uses, on average, 6 cordless impact wrenches on a fairly continuous work cycle. At first, he used the Milwaukee 18V high torque, type, which perform very well, but after a few months use he was having problems with the battery connections. Because of the design of the battery attachment and contacts, the vibration was causing the contact between battery and body to become loose, causing arcing and burning of the contacts. After having several units repaired under warranty, he decided to try the DeWalt DCF899, which I had been using without any problems. He has now changed over completely to these. Although they are marginally less powerful, they have been totally reliable.
i have a friend who also has a bunch of high torque and he and his staffs use bunch of them all day with the HD 9.0 batteries and drop them all the time
and no issue for years, they use them 6 days a week.
+1 for ridgid octane line vs brushless & lipo
awesome..love seeing the data..thx
This explains alot
I've always wondered:
Do you have a data logger or are you manually creating these timed graphs?
awesome video
This is some high quality video..
The gen 2 mid torque doesn't take full advantage the extra available amp as the High Torque does from a 5 to a 6 H Output can hear and feel the difference.. it seems to stabilize the voltage better under continuous load.. frim to 5 to 9 amp on my 3/4 definitely gives abit more punch.. surely not 50% but just enough where it consistently breaks 1-7/8 Nuts where the 5 XC did once
It would be cool to see the same battery at various levels of charge. Or temperature.
Cool you just saved me some money was thinking of getting another 8.0 now just gonna look at the 6.0's. Since I don't usually keep the trigger held more than 5 seconds to break anything free. The first burst of power is what I'm looking for to rip fasteners off. If I come across a new 12.0 at a good price then maybe I'll pick one up. TX for your reviews
I was also deciding between the 6.0 and 8.0. The only other thing I’m considering is that the 8.0 would stay at 4 bars and 3 bars longer than the 6.0 would. It would be interesting to see the power difference between a 6.0 with 2 bars of charge VS an 8.0 with 3 bars of charge, since that would be a very real world conditions test
@@ezrawaters6653 I'm sure the 8 would stay charged longer based on the actual batteries used in the pack vs the 6 as far as power decrease at lower bars the edge still might go to the 6 over the 8 based on the cell being used. If your a weekend warrior mechanic like myself and only use your impact in short bursts for fasteners on projects here and there then based on what we saw on his test and info on the cells being used the 6 and obviously the 12 give you the biggest boost. On the other hand if your using the batteries on other platforms like a leaf blower or saw the highest output pack should give you more run time. So I guess it depends on what best fits your needs. Knowing what I know now I'd just pick up 2 6.0's for my mid torque and save some money. Be interesting to see someone on youtube test the 6, 8 and the 12 head to head on a reverse breakaway fastener rig in the 600+ foot pound range with a mid-range Milwaukee.
@@johnny4713ify great info!! I agree
@@ezrawaters6653 Report back when you get your battery upgrade. I don't know what your going to be running it on, but you should get a better gain in performance with either one. To be honest I mainly run it with the HO 3.0 for it's light weight and compact dimensions plus it's put's down the same power as the 5. I only bust out the 8.0 when I know I have more heavy duty fasteners that I may have to remove off pickup trucks, but I rarely use it since the 3.0 can handle most of the fasteners I come across so the 8 just chills out in my carry bag as a backup 🤣, but it's comforting to know I have it there just incase👍
@@johnny4713ify I ended up getting a 2 pack of the HO 6.0s at Rural King for $199. I was tempted to get them from Amazon for $165, but shipping would’ve taken 2 weeks, and the description said they may or may not arrive in original retail packaging 😅. So I decided to pay the extra $35 to get them in an actual retail store. So far they’re great. I use them on the 3/8 drive Gen 2 mid torque, 4 1/2 in grinder, orbital sander, 6 1/2 in circular saw, 2863-20 1/2 high torque, leaf blower, and once the grass grows again I’ll use them to supplement my 12.0 on the string trimmer. Across the board I can notice small improvements over a 5.0. I can use the grinder harder without bogging down etc
I was wondering if in a future video you could explain/show the difference between the high output batteries to the high demand batteries. I’ve got 2 of the M18 9.0 high demand batteries that I got with a recip saw and circular saw kits a few years ago.
Very useful video as always. I'm currently weighing up a High Torque vs Mid Torque for a home user, and wondered if a mid torque with better battery might be an option.
I'm in the UK and our 6.0 aren't listed as High Output, but we have a 5.5 high output. Are these likely to be comparative to your 6.0? Or is an 8.0 a safer bet?
Fantastic video, with lots of usefull information - Thank you very much :)
Have you ever tested the 5,5 HO milwaukee battery? because we don't get the 6.0 HO here in Denmark, only normal 6.0 ;(
Thank you sir for this
Gosh I'm such of nerd I'm drooling over all this calculations