Hey guys! So I need to address a bit of our wording regarding the end of this video. We said “S*ic!de is the most selfish thing a person can do.” That…is not a very well worded statement. And we apologize for causing a stir. We are not trying to invalidate the feelings of people in that kind of pain. So I’ll clear up why we said this. The idea was to divide between someone with s*ic!dal thoughts and tendencies, which is still someone that can be heard, comforted, and helped, and someone who has crossed the line and can no longer be at all. We were not including pulling the plug at all. (And yes the script line did fail at conveying the intention.) The attack on Espella was meant to convey it is a fictional story flaw and a BIG one to abandon what you build up for the whole game and attach the build up to a character arc. We will be MUCH more cautious in the future about the subject. Again we are sorry for those we hurt by our statement. If you are going through s*ic!dal problems we want you to know that you are cared about and there is always someone to reach out to. And we believe no life should be given up on.
As understandable as your addressing is, I think your phrasing helped me at least from preventing going further than suicidal thoughts as it always reminds me of the people I hurt if I would go so far and that it is not a solution at all I hope this still helps other people who have to deal with this too And keep up your work you 2, you are great! Can't wait for the next video!
In most cases, unless it is done through coercion, suicide is a result of depression, which is a mental illness. Mental illness is a disability and it's not something that people control. Not everyone has access to adequate resources to treat their illnesses. So I don't think it's a result of selfishness.
@@georgspielberger9780 THANK YOU! For both surviving and realizing that this only creates more problems than it solves. Its not an opinion that its selfish, its a fact. There are people who would legitimately grieve if someone commits suicide. The only people hurt by suicide are those left behind.
@@NotSettlingForSecondBest Fam, I am riddled with manic depressive bipolar and I have not committed suicide. Suicide is not mandatory, its voluntarily. Making it... *Drum rolls* SELFISH.
The fact that Hickfield (Dr.Hotti) didn't make the list is really surprising. He is my least favorite, but I agreed on a lot of the picks, especially the trifecta from Kidnapped.
hotti is absolutely a fair choice. we just decided against including him since he's never more than a quick throwaway joke & everyone in the game who meets him also immediately hates him just as much as you
Honestly surprised Oldbags didn't make it, not even a HM, every time I see her I just feel a stab from my heart to my butthole as I clinch for how she screws over the case or stops you from getting clues, she's just a roadblock to stop sequence breaking or a extra testament to make the trials "interesting"(extend the trial). The only fun thing she gave me was when a streamer had to talk to her and chat just screamed to get her off-screen as fast as possible.
@@256PiAlternate fair choice to not include him. The trio from I1-3 was the best part of the video. The amount of really stupid and ridiculous stuff in this video is hilarious. *I can't believe you talked about the Regina and Trilo nonsense* 🤣
the worst part of nahyuta is that we all knew he was going to be “redeemed,” but we never actually SAW the process and just had to sit through his bs knowing we were supposed to like him by the end. he just flips a switch in the final case, and i wish we’d seen him even subtly struggle with the choices as he makes them
The characters that drive me most nuts are the ones where I see ON SCREEN how they could have developed better. Nahyuta waiting in a 6 hour fast food line to prepare for 6-2, and staying up all night memorizing Rakugo stories as he prepares for 6-4 prove he can be easily distracted and messy. Lean into that to show he is less prepared, but still able to fly by the seat of his pants in court, and you have a truly unique prosecutor. Make him serious in the case he finds most personal, and he becomes the genius that his reputation is built on. Not the disheveled mess we see, and you can make him an instant threat when you need him to be one. It's all there. Sometimes obvious decisions are perfectly ok so long as you execute them well. Which is why Espella was SO CLOSE to being great! Ugh, I feel myself heat up everytime I see the great choices they could have gone for.
@@Kaempfdog Thing is that Nahyuta couldn't be either distracted, nor messy. That wouldn't please Gahran at all and if she isn't pleased, then Rayfa's life is on the line. So Nahyuta must act as he does exactly because he knows his sister is in such a dangerous possition. I also disagree that the final twist hurts Espella's character.
There was also this one time he mentioned being able to see the "karmic threads" that made up the case, which was just. Never expanded upon. The spectral butterfly, the floating sash, the way he considers the court proceedings to be "final rites"... It's like they dipped a toe into a possibly spiritual/supernatural prosecutor and just noped out of there. I *would* consider it to be "gamebreaking"/op, if we didn't have a SPIRIT SEANCE AND SPIRIT CHANNELINGS in the very same game. It could have been done well, or at least done at all, but they just dropped that unique and potentially intriguing part of his character. Edit: There's thousands of ways to integrate it, like being able to "see" if a piece of evidence is relevant to the case, "emotionally connecting" with the victim (leading to this serenely calm prosecutor who has sudden outbursts in court cases), or just being able to tell if someone is spirit channeling. It doesn't even have to be something that affects the usual courtroom process, just anything.
DOes make me happy to see Larry get spared from the list. I'm a big Butz supporter and feel the man got done dirty in the writing department after 1-4. In AA1 Phoenix describes Larry as his BEST FRIEND, yet in every single future game he sees Larry as no more than a nuiscence he is unfortunate enough to know. Larry may have been a bit of an idiot but overall was pretty harmless in the grand scheme of it, even going so far as to OVERTURN A GUILTY VERDICT. SOme may argue he should have spoke up about what he remembered, but it would be perfectly in character for Larry to believe Phoenix can turn things around only for that verdict to be passed down and him realize 'oh crap Nick DOES need my help after all!' Hell, you can easily work around his roles in the games to actually fit his AA1 writing without much needing to be changed. Instead of him being an incompetant skirtchaser, just keep him as a dude who is just constantly down on his luck in both career AND romance.The job hopping and numerous ex's being genuine bad luck rather than significant fault of his own. Then come 3-5, Larry *finally* finds his calling as an artist and emphasize his respect for his teacher for being the one who helped him find his true passion. Larry is a damn good artist and I feel his so called 'friends' adamantly refuse to even ACKNOWLEDGE he has genuine talent. And speaking of Elise, I've only recently been made aware that Larry should have also gotten a chance to grieve her death alongside Maya given she was important to BOTH of them. ...Sorry for the rant, I just like the Butz for who he could have been and got carried away.
Larry is a character we have a lot of praise for. Speaking as someone who has a few friends that didn't really grow up and they need to have eyes on pretty constantly to get out of trouble is a GREAT representation in the form of Larry. Some characters are nuisances on purpose, and YOU know he's harmless, but you always have to convince people he is. When he says he blackmailed someone on accident, you know he's serious. You know when he says he crawled down a chimney to make a dramatic entrance for a girl he likes via acting like Santa, you know he's serious. But NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would think that if you didn't grow up with him. You just think, oh god, I have to convince everyone he's just Larry. He DID graduate middle school....and implies he didn't go farther. So you gotta just watch his back so he doesn't get hurt. His 6-6 debut is HYSTERICAL. Edgeworth, Ema, and Phoenix all coming in and going oh dear god we gotta clean up this mess. But the moment you're past that? Everyone is relatively ok with him again. You know Phoenix and Edgeworth get headaches as he describes stories and either poorly lies or are depressingly true, but I would argue that is EXACTLY why you keep that friend. Because it might be tough to clean up after him, but so long as he doesn't mean genuine harm, this guy is actually quite entertaining company. We didn't so much as consider him for the ranking.
Personally, I think Larry keeps Phoenix and Edgeworth sane in their friendship. Larry saved Edgworth from the guilty verdict after all while Phoenix was up against a prosecuting god.
Larry Butz's issue is more that like Gumshoe, Takumi (and later writers) forgot how to write him past-AA1 (though Gumshoe was salvaged in Investigations 2 at least, poor Larry wasn't that lucky).
Iirc SoJ's DLC case remedies some of those things. Though at large i agree it's weird he's introduced as the dumb but beloved best friend of Nick but most of the series after Phoenix acts like he's an unfortunate acquaintance at best lol Edit 2 days later lol: to be fair, Phoenix treats most everyone aside from Mia and Trucy as unfortunate acquaintances unless they genuinely require his help thinking about it lol
hard disagree with courtney. i think she and sebastian are absolutely intended to be despicable during the first two cases. their arcs would be very unsatisfying if they were just nice or calm. it’s also a clear consequence for edgeworth breaking the law in i2-1
XD we took that bit from John Oliver. Whenever he covered countries you don't think about, he would say you think about it so little you didn't realize that I didn't put the correct country on screen. It works shockingly well. And while we worked on this project I think I actually fell for it myself.
@@Kaempfdog I wonder if you 2 do countdowns for Ace Attorney Fan Games? I definitely think you could do Best And Worst Court Breakdowns, Maybe a Top 20 Hilarious Ace Attorney Characters Countdown and a Villain/Antagonist Countdown or Ranking Video.
@@TevinBlair that’s asking A LOT. I think we will keep ourselves focused on the series that exists and perhaps what the series can be going forward. But here’s the list of rankings we have planned. I announced them recently. Best side characters Funniest characters Best Victims Best Villains Best Characters overall. And we have other side projects planned like breaking down single story beats (I’m covering the Dark Age of the Law.) and we will cover TGAA like how we covered our case ranking. (And say where each case would land without updating the 2.5 hour video.)
I personally feel like the Kidnapped Turnabout was changed last second. Like I feel like Lauren Paups was intended to be the real killer, but they felt she was too similar to Alita Tiala, and so they very hastily changed it to the way it is now, hence why the case feels like such a mess.
I’m so glad they hardly mention the romance subplot with Ben, Regina, and Max in Big Top in the anime, I’m pretty sure they mention it ONCE in a small convo between Nick and Ben during the investigation
Yeah but for one thing it is mentioned a whole lot more than just once and in regardless the way Max refers to Regina in general is just creepy. And he is five years older than her while she is 16
About Windibank, I feel like despite the funny music playing, everyone still treats it decently seriously. Sholmes was just berating Windibank, but as soon as he put the gun ro his head, Sholmes goes °_° and tries to de-escalate the situation.
While the suicide part of windi whatever his name was was definitely bad I do remember laughing at him suddenly getting up, running away, and then picking up a gun lmao Was funny till he held it to his head I like how tgaa made use of its 3D to make the characters actually move around the space they're in Like how Sholmes is just suddenly screwing around during most investigation sections I love it Feels more real and probably part of the reason I felt so connected to the characters in that game I miss them 😭
Idea on how to change windi while keeping the best parts: He threatens to shoot the cash register instead of himself Don't know if this is good or not though
Pop Windibank ABSOLUTELY has the worst case of being ruined by a single joke. He could have been a very heartwarming presence and he just always found trouble to the point of being numb to it. Or he can see through everyone down to their core quite easily. (Also to Jonathan Tonner, I would be all for shooting the cash register screaming at an accursed machine. But only after threatening it for the time we converse. End off with helping him clean his store after he shoots it to connect us better as the last time we see him.)
I still love every single time you just randomly see sholmes fucking around like when he’s singing in case 2 of tgaa and then immediately goes to punch you in the face
I think Nahyuta's character works better if you don't see him as putting up any kind of "front" in his interactions with others. He's not faking his antagonism because of the blackmail (the blackmail is still partly relevant to some of his behavior, but it's not the whole cause), he's genuinely resigned to the way things should be, and that there's no point in fighting the status quo like his father did. Or, in his words, "let it go and move on". Which is ironically a paradoxical statement for him, because it's a creed he both does and doesn't practice. Unlike Edgeworth, he refuses to reflect on any of his defeats, if anything he retreats further into his beliefs, becoming angrier and more ruthless in his tactics with each subsequent case. LIkewise, I like how distinct he feels as a prosecutor. Unlike other prosecutors, he's willing to concede a lot of the smaller points, or at the very least, he's willing to let the defense build up their case first, before shattering them with a big picture theory. He's quiet and calm, doesn't interject very much during cross-examination, and for as frequently spiteful and antagonistic as he is towards the defense, he's ultimately in this to help let the dead rest in peace. He shows respect to the judge, even if it's not the Khura'inese judge, and he hates any kind of obfuscation, even if it might serve to benefit him (although as it goes on and his anger begins to boil, he starts resorting to dirtier tactics himself, specifically in 6-4). Someone wrote up his prosecution style (among others) here, and it's pretty thorough www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/yi8ivz/how_nahyuta_counters_arguments_63/ Iunno, I think some of his dialogue can get pretty repetitive, and I don't think most of his development needed to *entirely* be backloaded in the final case, but I think his arc makes sense, and he's a genuinely talented prosecutor as well. I'm personally not a huge fan of him, but I never really understood the hate.
i gotta agree, like heck i personally didn't even know he was hated to begin with, much less expected him to be on this list. given how he's from a place where people seem much more "spiritual", i thought his personality fit the environment pretty well (iirc)
I feel like Nahuyta and Ga'ran, or at least their relationship, was quite similar to Edgeworth and Manfred, they just tossed in Rayfa in the middle of it And also, the other prosecutors, or at least the less infuriating ones of them, also didn't interrupt cross-examinations. I think the only one who did multiple times and intentionally were Franny and Godot (or Sebastian, but I didn't play Investigations, so I'm taking their word and saying his incompetence actually works in his favor). And also, he gets points with me for being one of the few prosecutors that actually respects the judge He had a good concept, he's well written, but I wish it was more natural like the game did. I'm personally not a fan of him either, and found him rather infuriating more so than other prosecutors, but I also didn't know he was disliked since he had his moments. But they did also make some points too
Couldn't you argue Blackquill is the kind to let that occur himself? He doesn't just say that can't happen, Blackquill frequently entertains your bluffs and says this is what you need to have a chance of being correct. This, this, this, this, this and this. And you just sit there realizing you have none of those things and then he just says "and that is why you are dumb." He psychoanalyzes everything in a way that makes logical sense and not emotional. But when his emotions are tested, he leans more that way. Like going out of his way to not charge Jinxie in 5-2 even if he believed she did plant some things as the only one who had a chance. Its his soft side for kids that give him lots of depth. He stops saying Junie has to be the culprit once the much more logical culprit Professor Means appears and loses his alibi. He just makes Means make his argument. (Which Klavier also does which makes the AJ cases more facing the murderer aspect front and center than facing the prosecutor. Which I liked about Klavier.) Nahyuta has aspects that work but the more you delve deeply, the less he has in comparison to his predecessors. We went out of our way to explore methods to make each of these characters more compelling if they were handled differently. And that is what the list is really about. Each of these characters should have been handled differently. They don't work as well as they could have been. However, none of them lack potential. Nahyuta is sitting on a GREAT deal of potential that was misused. And I don't have just one way to fix it. We just wished he was more of a goober trying to live up to his reputation. That was our idea. There would be quite a few things that would need to change if he were that way, but it definitely would've yielded a more unique arc among prosecutors.
@@Kaempfdog And I also personally found him infuriating with how repetitive he is, which I didn't feel for other prosecutors (despite the fact that some, when clearly lost, didn't know when to give up until the not guilty verdict, looking mostly at Franny who still argued even when she lost, but at least she had a reason due to her reputation as a von Karma so I wasn't too upset with her. That's all she has after all)
Brushel isn’t an emotional core, he’s there for information. He’s an exposition character that got what he knows…in unique fashion. But he’s not someone that doesn’t care, he sits on all this info but he just keeps it all to himself because Zak is his friend. (He just comes off as neutral honestly) Sure he’s awkward but he’s written that way. I respect Spark Brushel a lot actually.
We had to catch up to your length of ace attorney content somehow. XD It was SO HARD to not spoil my thoughts when we were talking a few weeks ago. I just muttered to myself: few more weeks. few more weeks.
Maybe Espella's (and Darklaw alongside) arc would have been better if they had focused more on everyone trying to 'protect' or 'fix her trauma for her' heck, tying her dad into it by having him justify his god complex behavior, manipulation, kidnapping/trapping people, the great fire being a result of his actions, etc by saying he was trying to protect her and create a world where she could be safe and happy would have added a lot on its own. Darklaw could be dealing with this on top of her existing motivations and the Storyteller could use it as a shield to convince himself and others he is justified. Meanwhile, Espella's peak of her trauma could be also related to the realization that even more bad stuff 'was her fault' but could come to realize that she had no agency in deciding these things, her father was manipulating her and everyone in town, and that in the end, the bell incident was an accident that wouldn't have happened if not for her father. This could have led to a realization that she was assigning blame or guilt on to herself for things out of her control, that her father is abusive and also a villain, that she has people who care about her besides her father (particularly Darklaw who was in a similar spot) And most importantly for the others, that none of them could heal her for her, and that a lot of the things people did do took away her agency and/or made it worse (mostly her dad) For me it wasn't an issue of her not having enough willpower (unfortunately, healing takes more than just effort or wanting it badly enough, though those are the first steps) I will say it also would have been tons better if the writers gave her more personality, goals, or just non-trauma related traits, as she really feels depersonalized to an object or plot device, which supports the opposite message to what they were going for, I think.
I saw one let's play of Great Ace Attorney where they tried to play off Windibank's gun as a strangely shaped phone that he used to call the writing department to ask if they've come up with a better joke for him
I think a lot of people would of preferred a 4th Wall Breaker who gets sick of his own main joke than what people actually got... so Good on that Let's play. What Let's Play is that by the way?
@@georgemeyers7172 it's on the channel Jello Plays Games. For context, a RUclips called jelloapocalypse used to stream on Twitch and saved his streams there, but then twitch banned him for unknown reasons, so he moved his streams onto youtube instead (twitch un-banned him eventually)
To say I was entertained by our bit is the understatement of the century, but what REALLY made it was just how SATISFYING it is to rant about that pompous thoughtless waste of oxygen. And we had to awaken memories to do it and it just turned out perfect.
I am a HUGE fan. I think you were the 1st RUclips channel I ever watched in your Twilight Princess LP, and I LOVED your Phoenix Wright plays. I can’t wait to see you play the 2nd game of Great Ace Attorney. (I heard you played the 1st.)
I guess I should mention that we have 5 more active lists regarding this series planned and they’ll be likely as large as this one. And CERTAINLY as in depth. The ace attorney franchise deserves all the love it can get.
courtney's arc is one of the best in aai2 whaaat the doting extremely empathetic mother making swift and logical decisions in the most roundabout ways she can as soon as she sees a child (kay) in harms way is fantastic. like yes her moral code didn't budge until case 4 but that makes her so much more interesting. it's hard to go from hating to loving a character - most times it's intended, i stick around hating them 1000%. but given aai2's general. theme in regards to parents and their children, courtney is a standout and so so so extremely fantastic. it's weird you described her as only having an arc and depth in 4/5 when that depth and development is only felt BECAUSE of how she is in 2/3. that's how development worksss D: agree with the majority of the video but almost everything about her character (as w most main characters arcs in the duology) is perfection
also i feel like a few of your criticisms towards the duology can only be applied to aai1. "too much plot and not enough character" in particular; the biggest standout of aai2 to me is how perfectly most of the characters arcs and development flow with each case in a way that is both engaging for the specific cases, and also good pacing and depth for each characters development!
Honestly the biggest problem with Nahuyta is my biggest problem with Apollo. I love Apollo as a character, I think his petty little bitchiness is his best quality, but what is with his backstory. It's like they didn't have one for him in the first game and then tried to flesh it out as time went on but it ended making his past extremely weird and nonsensical. The biggest problem i have with this backstory is Nahuyta. He's so two dimensional that there is no emotion between the two characters, something you really, really need for the story you're trying to tell. I don't care about Nahuyta's past with Apollo and God I wish I could because that could've been an extremely interesting idea. Can you imagine how unlikable Simon would've been if he was as un fleshed out as Nahuyta?
And the person his age he shows genuine emotion towards, is just an unfleshed passing mention in DD. We are not privy to the reasons why ourselves, save for what Apollo himself conveys. We are barely privy to hints. If the stories reverted, maybe the two backstories would make better sense, or feel more purposeful... Apollo having someone to rely on, would balance his crankiness and feel like he has one minimum of a base. Instead, he is broken for the sake of breaking him, and what is the payoff? More breaking and a Nahyuta. A poor return, in my opinion. You have issues with Apollo for something that is not even a character flaw, but a writing conundrum... I don't know what to say to you about that. A properly fleshed Terran (even as a suspect) and a passing-mention Nahyuta could have been a better way around the two backstories. Makes more sense if Nahyuta was dead and Apollo goes to Khu'ra'in to fix the system in his memory. Such a 'turnabout' must exist. In a parallel universe, at least.
@@LathropLdST I think I perhaps misspoke. I love apollo, his sassy bitchiness is amazing, I just think his backstory is a goddamn mess. It's a shame because if Nahuyta and Terran were fleshed out it could've been extremely interesting. Also the Nahuyta idea could be interesting, maybe if he's dead then his sister (the queens daughter, I honestly can't remember if she's his sister) and Apollo has to try and unravel this whole terrible puzzle culminating in him and the sister taking down the corrupt queen. Hell, you wouldn't even have to change much. Also yeah, Terran really needed a proper introduction before his death. It's like Mia, you get to see the impact she has on Phoenix before they kill her off so even if you don't feel the same you at least get to see why Phoenix cares so much.
windibank wasn't "joking about suicide" - it was meant to show how seriously he took his job. holding the gun to his head most likely meant to represent "British Seppuku".
It's fun because Ben is actually one of my favorite character. i really take the plot seriously as either "Trilo and Ben are separate entity" or that Ben is actually SO dedicated to his job that he play the character of his puppet very SERIOUSLY. In either case, in my mind he cannot love Regina, because in the first case it's just trilo, in the second it's just a roleplay of Trilo he make, and he personally isn't interested. He his one of the few character of the case that explicitly said he isn't interested, while even THE JUDGE make an awkward sentence about Regina being beautifull and all. I found Trilo really extreme and fun, being a counterpart of his "human" compagnon, being a total jerk in comparaison make me laugh. He got one of my favorite sentence of the game "Let me lay it all out for you... The pay sucks... The clown sucks... And my partner has his hand up my pants."
Espella might not have actually rung the bell, but she still believed she did, and also saw the fire engulfing the town. That's pretty traumatic for a young girl. Her attempting to end her own life even after learning the truth still fits, I think. What was happening in Labrynthia is horrifying when you really think about it - just look at Jean's story, - and it was all done by her father for her benefit. She was also still the one who took Eve up to the tower with the intent of ringing the bell. I'm not saying she's actually at fault, but it's easy for me to see why she feels like she is. And throughout the whole story, she's fine with dying if it means the suffering of everyone else will stop, which continues to fit with her. I don't have any particular attachment to Espella, just my thoughts. I actually don't really like Darklaw, because I saw her actions as genuine hatred for Espella. The Storyteller wouldn't have known what was going on if not for Layton, because he's so detached.
Exactly, Espella doesn’t need to be responsible for the fire to be traumatised by it. She saw hundreds of people die in a fire as a child, and had enough reason to believe that she was responsible. I don’t think the suicide was well thought out at all though, not only in terms of logistics (how did this teenage girl outrun the entire town? why was no one guarding the tower?) but also in terms of motivation, Layton spelled out the truth very clearly and Espella just basically said “nuh-uh”. I can see how she might be overwhelmed enough to CONSIDER suicide but her jumping off the tower is nonsense.
When you put Nahyuta here I was offended, but when you bring up your points about why he is here, I feel relieved. I'm glad that for you, it's just that Nahyuta was not explored properly, since I also think that is the main problem. I am a Nahyuta fan, but I also have the EXACT same complaint about him as you do. Here is my solution to fixing him: Making him help the protagonist, e.g. In magical turnabout, when you are accusing Reus at the end of the revisualization of moving the coffin (I think I don't really remember the details), Nahyuta is bringing Reus down with Apollo since Nahyuta's belief is to "make the victim feel free" by bringing down the culprit. And also, Nahyuta accused Trucy that she could have also moved the coffin. I would change that Reus is making that claim and that Nahyuta is objecting for the FIRST TIME against the culprit and saying what Apollo said to Nahyuta for counterargument. And also, I think he should apologize to Trucy for the misunderstanding (same for Maya). The same thing happens in "Rite of Turnabout." I would put him with Wright to investigate the hideout so we can interact with him (maybe even make Nahyuta realize what really happened in the hideout since he SUPPOSEDLY "is the one who can predict what happened"). During Tahrust's testimony, Nahyuta is having second thoughts about Maya being the killer and is giving you hints. I would even say that Nahyuta has a personal connection with Tahrust. So he is willing to defend Tahrust, but as the cross-examination goes on, he is having doubt and actually figured out BEFORE the player that he committed suicide (just did not want to believe it). Also, in Turnabout Storyteller, the only thing I would change is that Nahyuta is having a reaction to making Athena feel trauma, making him feel concerned and apologize for his rudeness. I would not change his behavior in this case so the player could dive into his character because why is he so different than in previous cases? In a turnabout revolution, some things I would change First of all, Dhurke I think he should say that Nahyuta must be hiding something, or something like that. In California, I would also put Nahyuta there (I thought that maybe Nahyuta is with Apollo and Athena against Wright, but I don't know how to do it narratively). And in Khurain, I would not really change anything. Maybe once Nahyuta is freed from Ga'ran, he is going to insult her so many times (he only roasted her once; I think it would be better if he insulted her much more). Also, I like that no one cares that Nahyuta actually cares for Ema. This is the first time that the prosecutor is being tolerant toward the detective. He even acknowledged her for her work. (It is a shame that this wasn't also explored.) and that's about it. What do you think about my version of Nahyuta? I want to see comments about it
YES, this is how Nahyuta SHOULD have been written in my opinion, if there is anything that I would change for turnabout revolution though, Well, have a scene after the murder of minister inga, Nahyuta is being treated like a dirt again in front of Apollo and the others, then he will finally break down and leave, it's my opinion though. And sorry if my English isn't that great, I'm not a native speaker of English.
@@lovemoonforever6068 that is fine Im also not native I forgot to add something to my previous comment Spoilers to dhurke in SOJ When Dhurke twist happens,Garan is laughing at dhurke death I would make that nahyuta finally snaps and slaps her in the face(this would much more impactful)
@@lovemoonforever6068 well he is blackmailed by her so I get it why he did not do it But I think anyone would snap in this situation,plus this would give him another moment to shine Also later when garan is forcing nahyuta to confess this would also tie up to this cause she would be pissed at him Also I think as a bonus there should one case after revolution so we can see how nahyuta is actually prosecuting with nornal system this time(DLC would fit this category but we have Turnabout time traveler ig)
@@diesakuma367 mhm, well I. My opinion the entire game should have been set in khura'in, just like how the entire tgaa: chronicles takes place in Britain aside from the first case, that would have given the characters Time to shine! And if they really want to make Blackquill appear then make him the defendant. (Ik my guy just got out of prison but still)
I'm gonna point out that real life has vindicated Alba in still being a threat purely because of his choice of venue for his killing spree- Jamal Khashoggi's assassination indeed proved it is VERY difficult to get jurisdiction in a murder in an embassy, no matter how blatantly obvious it is to everyone who the killer is.
Alba treated the loss of PERSONAL extraterritorial rights as a temporary setback because there appeared to be no evidence actually proving the theory that the murder happened in the Theatrum Neutralis until the very end. It's why he is so eager to participate in the word duel in the first place: not knowing about the hot dog box blot of blood, he thought there was no evidence to tie the crime to Theatrum, or to tie him to the crime. Of course, you can presume that someone on the Ahlebast cover up team could have squeaked about the cover-up of the murder evidence, but that's entirely different speculation. The main point Lang notes after the extraterritorial rights is that his police actually searched the whole Theatrum thoroughly and found nothing.
Yeah, the most egregious thing about Ben is that he doesn’t get the same treatment every other character in Big Top. I already really like the case by itself, and it’s just Ben and Trilo + the cringeworthy love triangle holding it back. The latter half of Big Top is one of my favorite parts of JFA (besides… the entire finale of course) because both of those things are effectively gone from the plot, but it did come at the cost of Ben and Trilo’s character. Wesley I can agree on. He was the weak link in terms of characters in AJ for me Alba… I agree with all of your points. I’m not sure if I would put him on a list of my own if I made one but I cannot deny that him being the final villain makes things hurt more. Manny Coachen… who? Ok moving on. All 3 living case-exclusive I1-3 characters suck. It wouldn’t be so bad if just one of them sucked, BUT HOW DID THEY MESS UP ALL THREE? The I1-2 crew was so much better, even if none of them are amazing. I agree on all your Nahyuta points… again not sure if I would have him on a personal list but the fact that he’s the MAIN PROSECUTOR is like extra points deducted. All of your HM are completely valid
It's pretty telling people actually decided to listen to why we argued in favor of 2-3 this time. XD We had to do a LOT of justifying of that decision. What are your thoughts on the Crossover picks?
@@Kaempfdog No thoughts, haven’t played it yet, not due to a lack of interest, just haven’t gotten around to it. You didn’t spoil anything though, everything mentioned was something I already knew from having put it off for so long. I’ve been spoiled for AA games and still enjoyed them, so it’s not too big of a deal. I’ll come back once I’ve played it
If they had pushed that Ben is only putting on an act and has no actual interest in Regina outside of making her laugh with his puppet, he would immediately become more likable. But the game neither confirms nor denies it, which makes people unsettled.
1:08:53 Suicide being called a selfish act is a huge widespread myth/misconception. It removes and ignores any and all complexity to what a person is going through and how they’re feeling in the situation, which unfortunately a lot of people tend to forget. By saying “killing yourself is the most selfish thing a person can possibly do and is only going to deeply hurt the people you love” is EXTREMELY dangerous to say and it outright invalidates a person’s feelings and puts blame onto them. The more I listened near the end, the more upset I was of what you guys where saying about Espella, not because I have any attachment to her character, but most of time, people who are suicidal believe that what they’re doing is not selfish, but a *selfless* act, because they believe it’s the right thing to do, for they feel they are a burden to those that love them and are helping them, which Espella believes herself, for she greatly cares for her Father, Eve, for everyone. She doesn’t want them to hurt anymore because of her. There is ignoring at to the reasons *why,* the *why* she is even wanting to kill herself to begin with. Because everything- to the town, the brainwashing, the witch trials, and what her father is doing, is all because of *her.* Not just the incident, but the bigger, greater picture of the story itself. So of course she feels responsible despite being completely innocent. Even though factually proven outright, the thing is, she was not in the right state of mind and was in an severe state that is in no way conscious and or rational. The more I think and remember about Espella during the climax in the final trial, while I understand why people say what she was doing came out of nowhere, that’s the point. She’s experiencing such high emotional pain, it’s unbearable. So much so, it muffles out any and all facts and reasons. The incident absolutely still matters to her, and I would argue her character wasn’t done as poorly as you said, with the only criticism I can say is that they could’ve done more and written her with more personality, giving her more character outside of the plot. And even then, I don’t think she’s as bad and ruins the story at all. I understand the bluntness with what you guys were trying to say, you both meant no harm, but I believed your choice of words could’ve been done a lot better at handling what you guys wanted to explain. Sorry if this sounds aggressive and or sound like I’m attacking you guys. I debated in commenting this because I couldn’t stop thinking about it. This was hard to write and I hope I made this as clear as I could to explain my upsetting at the end.
I’m going to say this, we ABSOLUTELY did not choose our words wisely enough and we apologize for that. I have apologized to a number of people already. And I wanted to clarify a few things. Someone who is suicidal and has yet to cross the line can still be helped, listened to, and can be gotten on the road for recovery. Someone who has COMPLETELY crossed the line is someone who is no longer able to be helped at all. We did not include pulling the plug as that means the doctor physically can’t do anything more and it’s completely viable. Is this line of thinking still off it’s marker? Yes. We genuinely meant no harm. The only narrative attack of Espella truly is she is found innocent and then she makes the attempt. Not entirely unrealistic in real life when its so tied to misguided mindsets. (Not sure if misguided fits for the wording.) But on the narrative perspective, in a fictional story, it’s a genuine blunder for an entire game spanned arc as that isn’t what the story was building to. And as it deflated the build up so spectacularly, what remains is much harder to justify. We will ensure any further remarks on the subject will be much more carefully worded. And I’ll leave a pinned comment just in case.
@@OneManCast People who are depressed and are driven to suicide are never- NEVER- in the right state of mind, to the point where they are driven by such dread it kills them. So to say it was “their choice” to feel that way, ignores and invalidates said person, and overall guilt trippy by turning one’s feelings against them to say they are “the problem”, and that’s the last thing you ever want to do in that situation. There’s a dividing line between those who _are_ selfish and people who are willing to put in the effort into changing themselves and get better. I just don’t see the point in trying to blame someone/people of something that’s out of their control, and how they feel about it.
Having suicidal thoughts and tendencies is not selfish at all. Neither is it selfish to try and reach out for help or let people know of the struggles you are going through. However, the actually committing suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do, and there's nothing wrong with saying that. Just cuz the intention may be "selfless" doesn't make it actually so, because it's something that only comes through considering your own warped perspective, and not considering what other people would have to go through. Thereby being selfish. In fact it's something some people genuinely need to hear, to understand that by going through with they are destroying so many lives, to have to clean up after the mess they left behind. Hearing something very similar to what was said in the video is genuinely what helped me get over my own tendencies, and I've seen another comment literally straight up saying that them saying what they said in this specific video helped them. So I'd say they handled it well.
If there’s any character that I’d add to this list, it’s Aura Blackquill. Given her situation, the reasonable thing to do is do an actually good research, or kindly ask Phoenix for help. Instead, she kidnaps 12 innocent people and threatens to kill them (plus she ACTUALLY kills them in 2 of the bad endings), all in a sorry attempt to use Athena as a scapegoat. She doesn’t even acknowledge the accidental killing idea, and straight up accuses Athena of killing her mother with a katana. She even mentions a murder motive. If that’s not bad enough, the evidence that shows another suspicious person on the scene (bleeding hand and wearing the victim’s jacket) is in the exact same camera footage she herself provided, which goes to show how piss-poor her investigation was. She was even worse than Nahyuta in that. The fact that she never acknowledged that piece of evidence before Phoenix mentioned it (despite it being RIGHT UNDER HER NOSE), and even then still insists on Athena being a killer, plus takes glee in Athena facing conviction even after being proven innocent of killing her mother, shows that her sole motive in all that is her ego and childish obsession with Athena. She didn’t care about the truth, and she was completely disrespectful to her brother and her best friend. Her actions make her as bad as actual terrorists. The worst part is that she doesn’t regret her actions at all, and never gets scolded for it. Not even by Phoenix, who says her actions are inexcusable. Plus Simon still tries to hire Phoenix or Athena to defend her. After all the things she did, they expect us to feel bad for her?????? Give me a break. Godot had a similar attitude with Phoenix, but at least he didn’t accuse him of murder, he never held anyone hostage, his backstory is explored more deeply and is more relatable, he actually shows regret for his actions, and the only person he ever tried to kill was Dahlia, who is an absolute menace, and is already dead. Also, his comedic moments are much more entertaining.
honestly, i think espella is a well written character. even at the end of he game, i think her attempting to kill herself isn’t that far off. That being said, i wish she would have tried to kill herself purely for all that she’s gone through, instead of still believing she was the problem. for her to be the worst written character of the series is a stretch, especially because she doesn’t majorly derail any of the layton ace attorney plot.
It’s more she IS such a factor to the plot. Her believing herself guilty when she was just proven innocent and can begin her road to recovery is VERY narratively flawed and arc derailing. And as you say, it could very well work if it’s done the way you say. But it ALL lands on Espella’s arc, not the plot of the story which we still say works.
As far as I know "heel turn" would imply the character is turning to the objectively villainous side whereas a character seeing the light to be redeemed would be classified as a "face turn."
i love youtube videos where it’s two siblings talking about something bc the context of u guys being siblings means u know how to bounce ur humor off of each other perfectly. i love seeing the videos with both of u and i wish all/most of the videos were like that because comedically yall are so strong together
And now the list of the best characters: 1)Franziska 2)Franziska 3)Franziska 4)Franziska 5)Franziska 6)Kay Faraday 7)Kay Faraday 8)Kay Faraday 9)Kay Faraday 10)Gregory Edgeworth
FANTASTIC video, i could listen to you guys talk about AA all day. your takes are more nuanced than a lot of opinions on the games, which is really enjoyable, but you’re also just hilarious lol
this thumbnail made me realise that wright puts his fingers in between his hair spikes when he puts his head in his hands, and they fit perfectly, like slots
I still maintain that Turnabout Reclaimed succeeds at everything Turnabout Big Top and Turnabout Storyteller fail at. Even down to having a redeemable culprit.
This is the video I did not know I needed in my life today, but now that I have it, it's absolutely become the highlight. 🙂 You won't hear any objections from me to more entertaining and intelligent Ace Attorney discussion on the internet 😉 SPOILERS FOR THE RANKING Espella being #1 surprised me, but makes all the sense in the world the more you explained it. I liked her just fine for a lot of the game, but upon reflection, I absolutely agree there was a lot of missed potential with her character; especially with the ending. I might personally sub her out with Sanmadhi depending on my mood, but otherwise? Every placement here feels right to me 🙂 An honorable mention from me - if "worst" is equated to missed potential instead of disliking a character - would be Zacharias Barnham from PL vs AA. I liked his character development throughout the first two trials as he learns to question more what he assumes to be true and use "his sword of truth" alongside force to ensure justice is done. It just felt like there was more to his character arc that we should have gotten. Perhaps one more trial to bring things to a close? Not sure. As it is, I still find him to be a good knight; just not a great one. An enjoyable character, but not a standout amongst the other series antagonists.
Zacharias Barnham we felt was executed well, we just wish he wasn't dropped for the story finale. But the reality is his arc was complete when he left. We have nowhere fitting to have him enter because we felt Professor Layton becoming the final inquisitor was PERFECT for the finale to go after Eve Belduke. But would have been BETTER if he came in to prove Espella was guilty, and SHE WAS and the investigation of the tower had Layton confirm it in a way you would only notice on replays that the clues ARE there. The fact that the alternate reality of Espella being guilty makes me a fan of her makes this WORSE. She would be SUCH a well remembered character if they just followed through.
@@Kaempfdog That's a good point regarding Barnham! Eve being the penultimate prosecutor after being an antagonist for most the game was indeed quite cool, as was Layton's role as the final one. As much as it would've been cool to see more of Barnham, I think you're right; much of his arc was done by the end of that second trial. Him not appearing in the finale - just the epilogue- felt weird, but his actual development was complete. And yeah; Layton coming in to definitively prove that Espella WAS guilty after investigating the tower would've been so rad! It would've been a great subversion of expectations, and I think the gentlemanly professor in particular would've been equipped to not only articulate why she was guilty, but had the empathy and tact to give her encouragement alongside Eve to help her move past her trauma. Alas, that alternative, cooler version of the ending was not to be . :/ Anyways, again great work on the ranking :) Both in this video and in your case ranking- which I've seen a few times already- you both have done an incredible job articulating why Ace Attorney cases or characters do or don't work for you; you're both eloquent, entertaining and persuasive :)
Pop Windibank has the funniest joke in GAA, he’s also an absolute unit who valiantly defended his shop and Gina from the Skulkin Twins. Literally threw one of them over the counter. He does not deserve this slander
That conversation occurred out of context one day as we went through this list. And my brother loved it so it was kept for the final product. Worth it.
WOOO Great to see you two back, loved your other videos! :D There's a couple of bad characters in AA but most of them really are great :) The characters and their personalities are what dragged me into this fandom in the first place (watching fully voice acted playthroughs helps xD)
Every single person here has the POTENTIAL to be real people with how well they're written. We even justified why nearly all of these characters could have escaped being on the list. The fact we can do that for everyone but Kane Bullard and Deid Mann goes to show how amazing they are. (Those two are just pictures. You would pretty much have to start from scratch to get either of these two a character. But hey, it's pretty unintrusive.)
I have to defend Nahyuta here because a lot of his faults are not actual problems with his character and moreso problems with the fact that the writers didn't have the right amount of focus to clarify certain things about him at the right times. (SPOILERS FOR SPIRIT OF JUSTICE BELOW) If you really just take an outline of his arc and measure it on the extreme scale of blackmailing and abuse of power that he's stuck under in a VERY corrupt system, then a lot of what he does makes at least decent sense. And let's be honest: Prosecutors having a majority of their story sandwiched into only the final case or so is pretty commonplace for Ace Attorney games, no matter how popular or not they are. So Nahyuta's not exactly doing anything that different from the formula we're used to. Where problems arise is how everyone reacts to him, particularly his father. I like Dhurke as much as the next person in general, but they really hit him with the idiot stick in regards to the fact that it seems that he didn't even THINK that MAYBE his son was in a powerless/unfavorable position. While this could be an interesting point to explore if it was meant to show that Dhurke's single-minded devotion to his revolutions has him sometimes lose sight of the small things, the issue is that quite literally everything is framed to be against Nahyuta as if he's always wrong and everyone else is right and he made all of his own choices when it's pretty damn clear he didn't if you stop and think about Khura'in's system for more than two seconds. Nahyuta is interacted with in only negative lights for a majority of his screen time, which makes us, the audience, want to react the same way. If more people like Apollo or Athena or really anyone were allowed to be granted a more sympathetic view of him (Like seriously, how did Athena never notice anything going on?), then the perception of him at large would change without even having to change that much about Nahyuta himself. There's also the issue that most new prosecutors start off prosecuting some random person during their debut that won't have that much impact on our main characters, which is usually when they're at their most dickish and before the development train gets going. However, Nahyuta was set to prosecute TRUCY and the MAYA back to back, two already beloved characters, during this phase. So that combined with unfocused writing puts him in an even worse light that he really didn't deserve. And then to stack even more onto that, Turnabout Storyteller ends up being narratively pointless when that time could've been spent splitting Turnabout Revolution into two parts, thus giving more writing time to the most important things, like Nahyuta and other aspects of the Khura'inese characters in general. This is admittedly also a point that might be contested, but as someone studying to get a Master's in Psychology, Nahyuta also displays relatively clear signs of being Neurodivergent Coded, which would in turn affect his social interactions and how he would process and respond to certain things. But that's something that would pretty much never be explored in ANY Ace Attorney game unless it's being made into a plot point, which only further isolates Nahyuta in a bubble of not being properly understood. TLDR: Nahyuta's biggest faults as a character really aren't on him and the traits he was given. They're a product of unfocused writing and a lack of clarity where it should exist, which leaves him feeling almost incomplete because he wasn't viewed as important enough by the writers to create an arc like his properly.
As a neurodivergent: he just like me fr (okay not entirely, but after reading that bit I was able to think of an example of said behavior in like three seconds)
Never use the term "coded". It makes you sound REALLY dumb, especially when the reason for you using said term is really dumb and at worst makes YOU come off as the offensive one (like calling Knuckles the Echidna, the characters whose music genre in the SA games was a mix of jazz and rap, and who tends to be kinda stupid especially during the Meta Era, "black-coded", completely ignoring the fact that his ancient clan is based on Mesoamerican peoples). Just say you think Nahyuta is "Neurodivergent" or whatever normal person term for that is instead of using PC language only used by closeted and projecting bigots.
@@Nixahma As someone that is black and thus had a horse in this coded race (hence the specific example), -coded is not fine. There's plenty of ways to say what you want to say without using bigot-coded language, and you and your Masters should be able to do something that simple.
@@espurrseyes42 - coded is not fine - uses coded You're a hypocrite, and you're creating this problem yourself. Just because the word coded was used incorrectly and offensively once doesn't mean it should never be used again, and it definitely doesn't mean you have the authority to decide that.
I legit looked at your channel yesterday and wondered "man, I wish these guys would post again..." Imagine my surprise seeing this in my subscriptions!
Let's gooo, it's always nice to get the bad out of the way first to be able to get to the good stuff. And I agree - the baseline quality of most of these characters is quite high. It makes these games so fun to replay, because you tend to discover new stuff, even small details each time. At that point, I kinda agree with the notion that the worst characters are the ones that had the most lost potential, or that were even outright "missing" a piece in a way. Also I'm happy that Oldbag isn't here, wahaha. I know most people don't like her, but I find her chatty old woman shtick funny enough to never really get on my nerves. Now for the characters you DID end up ranking... yes. 10) Thank you so much for going so in-depth about this whole romance angle between Trilo and Ben. I thought your discourse was genuinely hilarious, as well as absolutely true to the character writing in this game. Regina was so sheltered that she would have genuinely married a puppet, and I like to think that Ben just entertained her in that regard as well. 9) Not that bad of a character, yes, but I too remember being initially irritated by the whole panties thing. That kind of pervy humour seems to be the one thing that I'm not quite on board with with Shu Takumi, but thankfully it pretty much disappears in the later games (though I haven't finished GAA yet) 8) Drags on for way too long, good lord 7 + 6) Major agree for all the reasons you stated. It's frustrating when a character is or should by all accounts be interesting, and then they just... never get back to that. 5) I had genuinely blocked this character from my memories. Upon seeing him I went like "oh he wasn't so bad", but hearing the tune made everything come back to me and... ugh. 4 + 2) Likewise, I think I just played through this case once or twice and do remember the characters being annoying enough that I'm hesitant to go back to that particular game. Although I did really like the little thief gimmick, the cursed proto-badger and Oldbag. 3) Nahyuta was the main reason why it took me literal months to finish the game. He is no fun at all, just an obnoxious foe that's not even that satisfying to take down save for the final case. I agree that his backstory makes sense, but they could have tried a little harder to at least give him SOMETHING. I liked your example about him getting carried away with the Rakugo stories, or having ANYTHING tying his and Apollo's past closer. But as it stands, he's the worst prosecutor by a wide margin and making my way through all his repititive dialogue on my replay is something I dread. 1) Yes. Yes. Yes. I was never a fan of the "helpless girl that doesn't want to be a bother to anyone, but you can't help but wanting to protect her" trope and as such always found her obnoxious. Even the similarly bland Layton girls like Flora do actually have personality quirks, and I attribute Flora's lack of action more to the fact that the writers give her next to nothing to do more so than her being a bad character per se. But Espella? I was waiting for something, anything to come from her as she gets to hang out with everyone and becomes more at ease around them. But no, everyone just likes her instantly and wants to protecc. She honest-to-god reminds me of a fanfiction-self-insert character, down to the fact that in the end, she didn't even commit the thing she is trying to chastise herself for. It is so obnoxious. There are aspects of the game I liked, but Espella was a major, and I mean major factor in me not vibing that well with the game overall. Not really liking your defendant for one case, but having to drag one annoying defendant like her around with you all game? One that it appears a character I actually love and care about - Maya - even "sacrifices" herself for? The whole game's story literally revolves around her, and she is the worst part of the whole game? Come on... we know you can do better than that! I did like her backstory with Eve in the end, and maybe on a replay knowing exactly what I'm getting into I might ease up on her a little bit, but as it stands... yes, I really didn't like her. I never really thought about making my own list, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find a character I disliked more than her.
Well done on your analytical comment. I still remember how good your full case justification comments were. We went head over heels to find reasons to get each character OFF this list. And the sad part was, aside Kane Bullard and Deid Mann? (Who have no character at all or are so rapidly uninteresting they might as well not.) Not a SINGLE person on this list LACKED justification to spare them the dishonor. Things like HAD the mistake of Espella not occurred, she would likely hurdle to the OTHER side of the spectrum. Her trauma story would have been FANTASTIC and could justify her build up as being shell mode would have what it would need. Her being meek and quiet would feed into her trauma which restrains her in nearly every way. It's still less interesting than Athena, but EVERYTHING would fit. Layton would come in and accuse Espella, and as the mastermind perfect man he is, HE would understand with the context who did it MUCH faster than Phoenix would. And I find it genuinely funny we awakened repressed memories for Birdly. The crossover is a relatively mid-tier ace attorney game. But a TOP OF THE LINE Layton game. Not that Layton is objectively worse, it just plays into Layton's strengths a bit more, and a bit better. Only other one to bring up is Alba. They needed to be a bit more clever with how they kept him going. Because they DID go about as long for him as other finale killers. But the fact his ambassadorship was revoked far too soon, and they don't follow through with Kay, and they needed to be more clever with the final pieces to beat Alba. (Maybe have the Yatagarasu's evidence be the finishing blow.) It actually needed more AND less. A shuffle of information would have greatly helped. Good stuff all around.
@@Kaempfdog Characters like Birdly or even like Furio Tigre and Moe are the bane of my existence in games like this. I love these games' dialogue and try to read more of it by pressing whenever I can, and those characters were either not allowing that way of playing or downright "punished" it. Doesn't help that it took me a good while to get used to the whole "multiple Witnesses at once" thing and had to go through some dialogues many times to get moving. It really is funny that I forgot about all that until his tune of all things brought my memories back. And yeah, had they not gone for the twist, I might be more generous with her as well. I like the idea of her facing her Trauma with the support of the main characters. But the way they did it it just read like I described above to me. Definitely a bit sad how she, like you said, basically did a 180 just because of that one little twist. They wouldn't have lost anything upon removing that twist, or making the connection between the girls more pronounced, to have Espella help Eve with her trauma or... something. Hmm, I don't know about the Layton games. Personally, I replayed the six main games over the course of the last year and see it more as a mid-tier Layton game that doesn't get near the likes of Diabolical Box and Unwound Future. But that's up to your taste, of course. I thought the explanation in the crossover was particularly asinine, even for Layton games. Down to the fact that these two pairs live in different eras, or how Phoenix and Maya were made to be susceptible to the hypnosis. Or the ethics of bringing them in at all because the Storyteller originally stated that everyone in the village came there fully consenting to take part in the experienced and be hypnotized. It just doesn't feel like there was good enough communication between the different story departments. But I definitely liked that many of the puzzles allowed you to move stuff around or try it out instead of going for, say, math puzzles. Or of course the natural chemistry that came of the new matchups (I loved Maya and Luke together). Are you two by chance interested in making a video about the Crossover in the future? I feel like there is a lot to be said about it. And I'd be very curious to hear your takes on it.
@@Penkeychain I will not deny it. We WERE considering a full video. But literally all our thoughts are more or less covered by the lists. The only thing I can think of is maybe streaming a playthrough one day. But that’s not a close by project. I will also say that considering Miracle Mask is my current favorite Layton, I know I can be a bit of an outlier at times. What really helps the crossover for me is I LOVE the medieval setting. I’m a sucker for the stuff from that era. I just can’t get enough of it. And I don’t find the world reveal more ludicrous than giant underground replica of London (mostly) or everyone is robots that shut off when we touch money. Or the EVERYTHING IS REAL from Azran Legacy. Beyond our planned projects, I’m not going to deny I’m not sure what the approach will be. I know I’m literally going to have YEARS to think about it, but that doesn’t make the approach any easier. We shall see.
@@Kaempfdog Oh really? That's pretty interesting. Between all the Layton Games, Miracle Mask sort of stuck with me the most, even if it's squarely in mid-tier for me. I remember that I was pretty disappointed by its story as a kid, but only now do I really understand why that was and begin to unravel the Script. I'm actually working on an analysis on that game in particular because it fascinates me that much. It has a lot of stuff I really like, but also a lot of stuff that became a detriment to my enjoyment of the second trilogy in particular which had more to do with the writing than anything. It's still the best game in the second trilogy to me, and also still more fun than the first game, but the writing... it felt like it was super torn between the style of both trilogies, with the first trilogy telling these smaller stories that could all stand on their own, but the second one trying for a more interconnected overarching story to all three games (and the movie). I need to find a way to learn about its development more efficiently. (And I'll give you that, yes, that whole Replica thing is not more "realistic" per se, but it felt a bit more coherent as opposed to the Crossover that straight-up has gaping plotholes. But everyone has their own limits and parameters to their suspension of disbelief, and that's also fine. ) But, same as with the Ace Attorney games, I don't consider a single Layton game to be a bad game (though I don't count Katrielle as a Layton game because that... is just Baby's first Layton and the most disappointing, sequelbaiting experience of the whole franchise)
Great video Kaemphfdog! well worth the wait! Allthough I will say Dr.Hotti is probably up there for my least favorite character... he is just... too unsettling for me
What keeps him off is he is meant to be an exposition doctor. And for us to be greeted by HIM, is genuinely funny. And every character responds as you would around such a guy except Trucy. And Phoenix makes sure he stays back. Some characters are designed to have specific responses to. And he doesn’t get in the way as much as Stickler.
God, it is SO GRATIFYING to see Espella at number one, but to be honest, I'm not sure if she even belongs on any character list. She's NOT a character. She's a prop. She could be replaced with a pretty amulet or something with minimal rewrites. This is why, when it came to a fanfic I wrote set ten years later, she has a PERSONALITY. She's a psychologist now because she wants to understand other people's actions, mostly the actions of her awful dad, and she's running on simmering fury for the life she was forced to live and how awful everything was. I also made her a bit of a disaster lesbian who gets flustered around beautiful women, because why the heck not As for Nahyuta, I feel like an easy way to make him a more compelling character would be to have him act differently depending on which country he's in. He's super harsh because that's what the Khura'inese government wants, right? So when he's not in Khura'in, make him friendly and polite, perhaps even supportive of the defence's efforts to uncover the truth. It'd also make for some fun reactions, like Phoenix in 6-3 thinking "they said he was really chill!" and Apollo in 6-5 thinking "wtf why is he so bloodthirsty now"
WHAT, YOU UPLOADED AND THE YT ALGORITHM WAS HIDING IT FROM ME??? I’m already 23 minutes into the video and I’m laughing a lot. This has me in stitches. I looove to hear you both ramble on about this series. Can’t wait to see more
I have to disagree with your opinion on Ernest Amane. His motivations for obstructing Edgeworth's investigation are perfectly clear- you are trying to arrest *his* *son* . Parent trying to protect their adult child from ending up in jail is nowhere near as unusual as you guys seem to think. But there is a second and third level to his actions- AA games are written as parodies of *Japanese* judicial system. There is a reason why they have over 90% of conviction rate and it's not because their police are so good at catching criminals. So Ernest as a rich and important businessman *needs* to keep you from arresting Lance so he won't also lose face as the parent of the criminal. He might also be concerned about what Lance knows/will tell police about his illegal activities. So yeah, buying the building where the crime took place and barring police from entering is silly, but I get why he did it.
Also I liked nahyuta. May I give my reason? He first comes off as rude, then after we learn a little more it seems like sibling rivalry. When we get near the end it seemed like he was being forced to be a prosecutor out of fear of being executed cause of the DCA
tbh, alba and simon keyes are actually very similar final villains, but unlike alba, simon was executed well. first, they are both technically masterminds in a sense, but keyes was much more directly involved with the main conflict of the story of aai2 then alba was in aai. albas the mastermind because hes the leader of the smuggling ring but not because he actually does anything. keyes is the mastermind not because of his position but because hes actually doing things. secondly, their takedowns are similar in the sense that both require you to use logic to take them down, and both cant be taken down by normal means. with alba, its his extraterritorial rights. we already know he committed the murders, but hes immune to being arrested because hes not technically a citizen. yknow until he gets those rights taken away but we still have to keep taking him down for another 5 years. with keyes, we have to prove he actually killed the president’s body double, since we can convict him for anything else he caused, which is a much more interesting conflict to me third, both seem innocent at first only to then be revealed to be evil. this is done alright with alba but my problem is you dont really get to see alba very much before his turn to the dark side. with keyes, you get all of i2-2 to see his more “normal” personality before he reveals that HE was the circus clown the whole time! finally, their takedowns are pretty much the entire finale of their respective cases. alba’s takedown takes too long. it took me like 5 hours to finally finish this. there’s like, 6 or 7 cross examinations, 2 investigations, and a bunch of other stuff in between that. with keyes, you get no investigation, and 3 cross examinations, that take at most a couple hours, and them you’re done. so in conclusion, i just wrote an essay on why simon keyes is better than quercus alba in pretty much every way. i should probably go get a life or something.
Honestly, facts. Keyes is definitely my favorite villain. Ironically enough, my least and most favorite final villains are from i1 and i2, lol. Also, they contrast well. Like Alba was an ambassador of a country with a hundred extraterritorial rights and yknow, while Simon is just an ordinary guy working at a circus. I just really like him. But both have banger themes (Simon better) Simon Keyes >>>>>>>> Old Tree man
But this doesn’t really say how Alba is a worse -character- than Simon.. it says how the story written around that character fell flat versus Simons inclusion. Both felt sufficiently threatening and I still got that presence from alba even after he lost his rights. Characters often write themselves by having personality, and I felt his actions were spot on for his character all the way through
Kinda surprised that Clay terran from dual destinies didn't make it at least into the honorable mentions, he was another character that only felt like just a plot device, at least to me personally. (Great video btw)
I kind of agree. He had a full-on character design convincing me that he was going to be another main side character in Apollo's backstory in SOJ-if not in DD given that he...stopped existing afterwards. Literally.
Clay’s backstory is fully developed through Apollo. We see everything that makes him a true significance to everyone he needs to. And how it ABSOLUTELY BROKE Apollo to the point anyone who has any idea what HE is about is worried sick about him. And because 5-4 and 5-5 are so intertwined, we spend that much more time on his focus. Solomon Starbuck muttering “I’ll be fine” over and over again in the new rocket at the end, Yuri Cosmos secret undercover plan with Clay to sneak into the space museum to keep them safe, and his fight with the Phantom. Manny Coachen effects Ambassador Palaeno and that’s it. No one in the case seems torn up too much and Palaeno even comes to terms with how awful he was in pretty short time span and is then more worried on the effect of his country. But what truly catapults Clay into a great victim is his conversation with Apollo and how they cheer each other up over the loss of Clay’s mom, followed by Clay coming to Apollo to support him to prevent him from quitting over AJ events. His significance is so much more felt than, “I know how to schedule your day to day.” And to top it off, Apollo focusing on his own lack of mother despite knowing his father is already dead, the absence of any mention of his father is what allowed the writers to make Dhurke for SoJ. And with that in context, Apollo having an eternally optimistic foster father willing to fight for everything ALSO fits. Clay does not belong even in honorable mentions for this list. We may never see him, but he still felt like a genuinely real person.
I love how the Terran naysayers hate on a character we only know by mention/Apollo's musings. For a guarded, sardonic character, with nothing close to a family to call his own, to have this reaction to someone... It's only with Dhurke after Clay. We had a similar situation with Greg in the main trilogy. He got his part in Investigations, since he was killed when an adult and already fleshed lawyer. We will never have that with Clay, because he effectively was killed when Apollo was merely a rookie lawyer, and there is not many a way he could be inserted in a flashback case. Confusing a plot device character with a character in a badly stitched storyline, is a quite amateurish mistake to make.
@@LathropLdST victims are naturally harder to develop than regular in person characters. And you can get the kind of person they were from the perspective of others and how they view them. It’s important that there’s no much conflict in people’s perspectives of them so they can appear to be real people. Manny Coachen has a conflict and divide in character that is lacking in personal development, and they didn’t develop the side that Palaeno trusts so much and that’s why he can be so forgettable. There’s no depth. Contrastly, there’s Juan Corrida who we understand from the get go was actively antagonistic to Matt Engarde, and vice versa. But no one understood the DEPTHS of how far they took their “rivalry.” Clay actually gets across EXACTLY what kind of person he was being an incredibly supportive emotional base to those around him that truly loved those he brought close. And all his explored actions demonstrate that. There’s never a conflict in who he was, and more of a bafflement that anyone would kill him at all. Which fits PERFECTLY in Apollo’s arc and how he SPECIFICALLY is broken over his friend’s death. I wish in SoJ you could still see Clay’s jacket somewhere in the office to show that Apollo will never leave his friend behind, but they were covering what happened with Apollo as he slipped through the cracks of the Gramarye storyline and how Dhurke raised him before he proper met and became friends with Clay. (And I hope if we DO see Apollo again in a cameo or a more active case, he does mention Clay.)
Great video! You guys made some very good points and there wasn't a single character on here who I thought didn't deserve to be, and you argued against them very well. Can't wait to see more content from you guys if you plan to make it! I find it pretty interesting that I totally agree that Justine Courtney makes the honourable mentions here while Sebastian is probably one of the best ace attorney characters, considering that they serve pretty much the same role in the story. I think that Justine could have been improved with some changes to her earlier behaviour, considering that she's trying to remove the corruption in the P.I.C. from the inside. (This is about to essentially become "how I'd write Justine Courtney lol) Perhaps the player initially sees her as a roadblock because she's attempting to remove Edgeworth's badge for genuinely breaking the law. However, as the case goes on and we learn more about her, you realise that she did that not because Edgeworth himself was a threat, but because she believed him to be morally in the wrong. This realisation should come a bit earlier than it does to make her more bearable. She wants to be just and while she doesn't approve of the PIC's actions, she'll use the power she has to do things she thinks are good, for example keeping Sebastian close as he can provide information on his father. I'm not entirely sure if this was why she stuck with him in the main game, but it would serve Sebastian's arc as well, because Justine had been an adult that treated him nicely and it turns out it was all just a farce that was ultimately because of his father, just like his grades. (Perhaps he figures this out during I2-4?) However i think it would do wonders for her character to have her let up on Edgeworth a bit near the end of I2-2 (i remember like nothing about I2-3 but I'd assume she acts similarly then too) when she figures out who the true killer is. It would make the case drag on slightly less, make the ending more satisfying, and would foreshadow her desire for justice rather than feeding into the PIC's corruption. I love Sebastian's genuine confusion at the end of I2-2 when he realises that Roland is the killer and doesn't know what to do, and Justine deserves a moment like that where she realises and essentially allows Edgeworth to take it from there, any attempts to dissuade him seeming much more like an act than before. Basically, I'd love foreshadowing that any antagonism towards Edgeworth is through a genuine sense of wanting justice, which she values above all else shown in I2-5 with John's kidnapping, since prior to I2-4 she just seems like a living roadblock.
Very glad that Spark Brushel isn't on the list. Aside from his appearance and mannerisms, he's easily one of the best and most helpful people in the entire series.
I kinda like Olivia Aldente due to her animations. I dunno, I just like the way she moves. Makes her fun. Almost like there's a song stuck in her head and she can't help but move to it a bit. We've all been there.
SPOILERS FROM VIDEO PLACEMENTS AND PWVSPL I kinda understand Espella character now that I have replayed the game. The ending is not about blaming the big villain instead of your ally, as AA likes to do. The culprits are their fathers, this is more about taking out Estella from the spell and showing Eve that they were both loved: it's not about who rang the bell, it's about how to the different ways the go about dealing with the traumatic events events they experienced, and to end the spell in the end, and to make Eve understand that she was affected too
@@oddllamasquad9737 yeah we did have to make an apology about a script mistake. The top comment I pinned is that apology. All I can say is if we ever have to broach the subject again, we’ll be more careful.
14:45 Something I thought of a couple days ago regarding this sentence. Ben was likely the one to have bought the engagement ring (as obviously no one else would’ve cared, some may have reacted worse), and obviously, for the shtick, he’d bring Trilo along too. How do you think the cashier would’ve reacted?
I don’t think the Berry Big Circus moved around too much after the Leon incident at the very least. So my guess is that the locals got VERY used to just occasionally seeing the circus performers in full gear doing their bits in public too. Either that, or the jeweler found his most memorable customer ever and will be numb to weird requests. Oh I don’t mind that weirdly specific request. Ever had a ventriloquist puppet ask for a wedding ring in full personality for his proposal and never talking to me as the man?
i actually do like alba and coachen, like this is mostly just AAI1 being my favourite AA game but i genuinely think they have more going for them than people say
Really sucks 4-2’s reputation is mostly remembered because of a joke played for too long. I actually really like most of the characters featured in that case, namely the kitakis and eldoon, but I also thought alita was a pretty decent villain that I do appreciate more after reading some people defend her *as* a villain. As for Wesley… the only joke I found funny with him was the joke he made in the credits. ‘Wesley Sicko’ was genuinely hilarious to me
Only thing I dislike about the video is saying that Espella's attempted suicide is selfish. I just think it's stigmatising people who have attempted it or have suicide ideation as bad people, when really they're just in a horrible mental state where they (often) dislike themselves, others, and the world. Is it selfish? Uhh maybe if you wanna see it that way? But I mean, let's have some sympathy, you know. Suicidal people can often believe that nobody cares about them, so they don't think that others would really care once they're gone, or they may just dislike living too much to bear it despite the people it effects. To be fair, suicidal thoughts are a difficult thing to understand or comprehend without ever being in that mental state yourself, but I just wouldn't recommend saying it's selfish because I think it misunderstands what kind of perspective suicidal people are going through. Plus, people recovering from suicidal thoughts really don't need to hear more reasons to believe they're bad people, and dislike themselves. Espella is fictional so yeah it's not like she's effected by you saying stuff about her, but I just worry about the stigmatisation of suicide based on people's reactions to media portrayals of it I guess, and the mental health of people who hear media criticisms of suicidal people getting worse. Hope this all makes sense.
Allow me to fill in a blank. It’s the success of the deed that is selfish. Until the line is proper crossed, they can be helped and comforted. And I am not belittling people that have trouble with this. I’ll always be there for a few of my friends that struggle with this. But it’s gotta be said in this blunt way from my perspective because once it’s over, help has been refused, you have cut out any and all support for good, and any pain you had is left with everyone mildly close wondering if there’s anything that could’ve been done or if it was their fault. And there’s always a way out. Pulling the plug is not apart of this because the doctor is saying there’s no reasonable way to keep them alive any longer without them being in large amounts of pain. I do think we could’ve used our words more tactfully I won’t deny that. Suicidal thoughts and self-hate, and strong levels of fear are categorized differently than the act itself. It’s never the solution. And there’s always someone somewhere willing to help. In likely places or not. Our criticism of Espella is that she’s proven to her face that she is not at fault and can really begin the road to recovery. But it’s the fact she takes her innocence as guilt for no reason. From a story perspective that is BLATANTLY flawed. And it muddies a game long story arc.
@@Kaempfdog Definitely agree with that last part. Espella attempting suicide despite being innocent is a strange story decision that doesn't fit the narrative at all. Also agree that you weren't belittling suicide and "pulling the plug" is entirely different. I still don't believe the act to be selfish though, I think a better word is probably just misguided, but that's my opinion and you can have yours. I guess for me the fact that any help they could be offered or the pain somebody will leave with their significant others is not enough to stop them from committing suicide shows how awful their state of mind is, and that they deserve sympathy after death, not ire or judgement because it's selfish, but again, that's just my perspective and thank you for explaining yours.
I’d like to say right now that I personally *love* Spark Brushel for how unique he is. Every other witness is lying in court but like Brushel really doesn’t. Instead of trying to pick out lies, you’re trying to take into account what he’s saying while ignoring his weird design and weird movements. He’s also just a genuinely good guy and I’ve grown to really like him.
The worst part about Nahyuta is that there's another character in the same game that does what the writers seemed to be doing for him, but successfully: Rayfa Padma Khura'in. For starters, she's only 14and is literally a princess, so her naive, immature behaviour is not only reasonable, but it can often be hilarious and even adorable whenever Phoenix hits her with a reality check. Another point is that, unlike Nahyuta, she actually stands up for herself and defies Ga'ran, while he remains thoroughly whipped by her until literally the very end. It's even crazier because I usually HATE spoiled brat characters.
@@Kaempfdog Here a year later because Joan Garrideb is absolutely one of the worst characters in Ace Attorney history and it's not even funny. She takes a real life issue and makes a mockery out of it, aka physical assault and the issues with her marriage. Like, you think Pop Windibanks suicide threats are tone-deaf because they're played for laughs? Joan has the EXACT same issue. Assault is a serious crime and the game doesn't take it seriously in the slightest. In fact, they have two other examples of it played for laughs in the exact same case with Patricia Beate and the husband juror. Except Pat clearly still loves Roly and the juror isn't a major character in the case. Joan is a despicable woman and how she was depicted was incredibly insensitive.
When you mentioned Birdly, I forgot he existed and I'd rather it stay that way but not for a while now ;-; He's the reason I skip his dialogue while playing PLVSPW. That bard doesn't seem right, cause it sounds like there's a harmonica inside its sound hole or something. Your points on the worst characters in this list were understandable, and I'm relieved Daryan wasn't included xD I love these 1hr+ aa video essays -- I'm looking forward to your next one!
I dont think the release placement of SoJ helps nahyuta in hindsight. For Japanese fans he comes right between the two great ace attorney games which have van zieks and (spoilers?) showing how well prosecutors in the series can be handled whereas for us in the west SoJ was the last official release for six years, meaning we have way more time to sit with him before seeing another game and main prosecutor to take attention away. He's still quite lacklustre in SoJ anyway of course but now I think about it he got kinda shafted by the situations around his game
Yeah, the two prosecutors (Spoilers specifically!) in TGAA are probably the most well-written, interesting and likeable (or at least understandable) prosecutors in the AA series so the JP fans had two very good prosecutors to deal with. Though, I replayed SoJ right after playing TGAA and it was pretty obvious how much missed potential there was in Nahyuta's character. It's pretty sad.
@@364-unbirthdays8 the fact that (spoilers) in tgaa 2 achieves such a good arc with so little screen time compared to nahyuta who is only absent from one case in SoJ is really telling of the overall quality of the two games. I love SoJ but tgaa 2 is an entirely different level
@@CMW003 I already liked (Spoilers) in the very first case he appeared in (before he got spoiler'd) but seeing him in the later cases just blew my mind. TGAA2 is actual insanity and probably my favorite AA game to date. I can see how Nahyuta could have easily become a very impactful character if his struggles and his before-after changes were explored or even just hinted at more. The concept of his character is very interesting, after all. I still love SoJ,, but man, I do wish Nahyuta's screentime was a bit more meaningful.
@@364-unbirthdays8 yeah (spoilers) is great from his first appearance but does get way better later. Tbh I'm not entirely sure whether my love of SoJ is just because of apollo because the game does have its flaws, flaws that are painfully obvious when there are games like tgaa 2 there to compare it to
@@364-unbirthdays8 (Spoilers) is arguably worse than Nahyuta. Nahyuta comes out of nowhere with evidence you hadn't found yet. (Spoilers) makes insane leaps in logic, presents circumstantial arguments with circumstantial evidence, at one point literally just commits hearsay wherein they admit to (spoilering) (spoiler) and refuse to answer questions regarding that when it's vital to the case. (Spoiler)s whole case comes down to "The defendant is guilty because I said so." You're free to like them as a character, but they are an objectively terrible prosecutor.
It's great to see more videos on this channel. I really enjoy all the deep and detailed discussions that you guys do on these videos. I'm really looking forward to the TGAA videos that you mentioned at the end the the video, especially since I have been wondering where those cases would fit on your current list.
As for the list in and of itself, putting in a separate comment for room... 10: Yeah, this is the big one from 2-3, or at least one of two. Moe and Max improve, and while Moe hits lower lows than Trilo gameplay-wise, Trilo's infinitely worse in every other aspect, including how other characters treat him. At least Moe is treated like the past-his-prime joke he is before he gets his act together. I'd also think about having Acro in my own list, if you were going to give any killer from 2 the Disney Princess treatment then I'd give it to Mimi first and I'd rather give it to no one. Treating Acro like a sympathetic murderer is my other big problem with 2-3. 9: Is even worse when you think about how post-AJ (minus 6-2) has treated Trucy like a running Panties joke, it arguably traces back to panty thief Stickler. Otherwise, just a bit character, and an incredibly uncomfortable one...but he does make me laugh sometimes. Which is more than I can say for Hottie for example. Still worth making the list though considering he kinda derailed Trucy. 8: I can't defeat TreeMan, no matter how I contradict his testimony he just objects again And even though I use basic logic he has another law to get away in the end I press as much as I can, but when his testimony lacked a contradiction I was helpless again I'll press again of course, but this is my plan I'll keep this geezer in the embassy as long as I can... 7. How do you make a Deid Mann/Kane Bullard character THIS GODDAMN IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT. Coachen basically caused the entire story along with Alba, and his attempted coup was what caused Turnabout Ablaze to occur...how do you make him THAT MUCH of a nothing burger? I think he might top the list of Wasted Potential/Actual Execution ratio, because there's no execution here. 6. Congrats on being the least bad I-3 specific character. I feel like this case in particular drags down Ablaze so heavily because they somehow managed to make a nonfiller third case feel like complete filler, and this is the guy who they could have made into something to tie the case into the rest of the plot of a 4 case game. 5. I'm fine with one note characters, but your note needs to be good. And preferably not just one annoying song over and over again. 4. The biggest problem with I-3 IMO. Another character legitimately ends up worse, but their part in I-3 isn't why it turned out so poorly. Just a complete drag in all ways; the plot, the motive, the crime, the animations, the breakdown, the personality...I feel like I-3 could have survived the Paups we got and even the Ernest we got, although it'd still feel like a filler case with the latter. But I-3 was absolutely DOOMED with the Lance Amano we got. 3. How do you make a character feel more annoying and more like a perfect prosecutor than the 2 prosecutors we faced in the original GAME? Literally all the prosecutors in the original trilogy bring a perfect win record to the table (albeit Godot's cheating his ass off with that claim) and NONE OF THEM feel as broken as Nahyuta in the first 2 cases. And that's just how he acts as an obstacle to you. Sure, he slips up once in case 4, but that doesn't change that as a prosecutor he feels just cheap. Like, meme Edgeworth Updated Autopsy cheap. And then how he acts on top of that? Let it go and move on that many times is something that he is probably also telling himself, but make that more clear from the beginning Capcom writers. You had something here but you blew it with how he emoted and with the bead throwing. 2. What happens if you combine the lack of emoting animations from the nurse girl in I2-4, the skin deep seeming personality of Alita Tiala (this one unintentionally), and put it on the character who's supposed to be I2-4's amnesiac Kate, or Edgeworth in 1-4, or Will Powers in 1-3, or... 1. On one hand, Espella's mostly a nothing burger for the entirety of the game. A damsel in distress to make Maya look like a person with a spotless record, or Princess Peach's castle an impregnable fortress. That's already something that might make the list on its own. Her decision in the finale isn't something that made me hate her or anything on its own, suicide isn't a logical thing, it's an action taken by someone who feels they can go on no longer. Her suicidal depression isn't the problem...it's how the writers gave her an out. Unlike Alba, where the writers messed up by him being able to drag out the case too long, here the writers messed up by flipping the final culprit from who it was building up to for the ENTIRE GAME. The story isn't, she did something bad unintentionally and how to deal with it, it's don't kill yourself because you didn't actually do it. By that logic the person jumping from the tower should be Eva Darklaw, though that wouldn't change the fact that it was an awful story. I'm not sure the answer was having Layton be right though, the crossover already had a ton of Layton's deduction and logic overshadowing Wright, and having him triumph over him in Wright's own wheelhouse might have been too much. Maybe if Espella did actually do it, but Wright got the not guilty because he put enough doubt in Layton's mind or case about whether Eva did it instead. Honestly, there's no way that Paups should be No. 1 in any list that includes Espella. Paups is an emotional center that failed at her job for one case, whose problems go deeper than that emotional center. Espella is an emotional center for a GAME that failed at her job for the game, and especially for the final case where the biggest problem is the shaky emotional center.
Very little to argue here. This is a great thought process on what we covered. Acro is spared mention because his secret about Bat matches his anger, and he himself refuses to let anyone give him an inch in the end. He refuses to play victim, he says I’m just a murderer. He himself admitted he thought he’d take himself out for what he did, but couldn’t walk away from Bat. I think the ONLY reason Acro got special treatment is he got his legs destroyed by a Lion saving his brother. That reason and no other. Moe is spared mention because the way he transforms into a clown who feels he has nothing to offer to turn into the father figure happy to take care of everyone to take Russell’s place in memory of his best friend. (Once the 2nd day of Moe starts, I honestly have little to complain. And I actually really enjoy his presence.) I won’t deny they both crossed our minds. But they have ENOUGH that works that we can say lower tier, but not worth bringing any lower in a mention.
can we talk about that the entire Amano plot line could have been so much better if the amusement park was owned by Amano and was part of the smuggling operation and lance wanted to expose that fact via self kidnaping in said park. Could have made him and his father a lot more interesting and give edgyboy a better reason to be involved
You should play dual destinies it’s fantastic but unfortunately you won’t be able to play it on the original hardware because it’s 3ds download only which still pisses me off
I've really been enjoying the ranking vids you two make together and am looking forward to the next one regardless of when it will drop. Thanks a lot! You seem to put so much work into those and voice your opinions well, yet your scripts and delivery come off very entertaining and natural. Also looking foward to your 'Dark Age of the Law' vid, Kaempfdog. [23:50] Haha. I somehow could only think of the one character coming up after this transition - and they did. :D (Maybe I've just seen your first ranking too many times already... I like the consistency in your guys' opinions on the series btw. You might say that that is naturally the case, but I'm still pointing it out as something I really enjoy as a viewer.) [about 36:45, When describing the Layton games' world and characters:] You got two good ones in there in a very brief period of time, huh. I thought the first one was unintentional at first, but the unassuming to the uninitiated but deliberate pause after the second one completely set me off laughing xD I subsequently rewound and listened to that segment again :D
Bro I was dying in so much laughter when you both were talking about the love triangle oh my god.😂 This was a really well done video and I really hope you continue making these videos because they are so well done! Also keep the bloopers lol
@@Kaempfdog That’s great to hear! Hopefully your next video doesn’t take over a year like this one😂 (that’s a joke, I know things take time lol), and I cant wait to see what other pieces of Ace attorney content you have up your sleeve!
@@carterferris07 Apart of me wants to make the promise, but this video was supposed to come out before autumn. So I'll just say we will see what happens.
58:00 I suppose a similar comparison could be Dahlia Hawthorne. She looks like a sweet and innocent girl, and she very much knows it. She can very easily get people wrapped around her finger to get what she wants (as in 3-1 where she immediately gets Payne and the Judge on her side.) Her facade only breaks when she’s stripped of her power (as in being proven incorrect or guilty.) While she may not have acted (or unintentionally acted) as long as Tiala or Paups, she still does it long enough to leave an impression. (Which says a lot given all the screwed up things she’s done.)
Hey guys! So I need to address a bit of our wording regarding the end of this video.
We said “S*ic!de is the most selfish thing a person can do.” That…is not a very well worded statement. And we apologize for causing a stir. We are not trying to invalidate the feelings of people in that kind of pain. So I’ll clear up why we said this.
The idea was to divide between someone with s*ic!dal thoughts and tendencies, which is still someone that can be heard, comforted, and helped, and someone who has crossed the line and can no longer be at all. We were not including pulling the plug at all. (And yes the script line did fail at conveying the intention.)
The attack on Espella was meant to convey it is a fictional story flaw and a BIG one to abandon what you build up for the whole game and attach the build up to a character arc.
We will be MUCH more cautious in the future about the subject. Again we are sorry for those we hurt by our statement. If you are going through s*ic!dal problems we want you to know that you are cared about and there is always someone to reach out to. And we believe no life should be given up on.
As understandable as your addressing is, I think your phrasing helped me at least from preventing going further than suicidal thoughts as it always reminds me of the people I hurt if I would go so far and that it is not a solution at all
I hope this still helps other people who have to deal with this too
And keep up your work you 2, you are great! Can't wait for the next video!
In most cases, unless it is done through coercion, suicide is a result of depression, which is a mental illness. Mental illness is a disability and it's not something that people control. Not everyone has access to adequate resources to treat their illnesses. So I don't think it's a result of selfishness.
@@georgspielberger9780 THANK YOU! For both surviving and realizing that this only creates more problems than it solves. Its not an opinion that its selfish, its a fact. There are people who would legitimately grieve if someone commits suicide. The only people hurt by suicide are those left behind.
@@NotSettlingForSecondBest Fam, I am riddled with manic depressive bipolar and I have not committed suicide. Suicide is not mandatory, its voluntarily. Making it...
*Drum rolls*
SELFISH.
@@OneManCast As a Danganronpa character once said
"Giving up on life is the biggest insult to life itself"
The fact that Hickfield (Dr.Hotti) didn't make the list is really surprising. He is my least favorite, but I agreed on a lot of the picks, especially the trifecta from Kidnapped.
hotti is absolutely a fair choice. we just decided against including him since he's never more than a quick throwaway joke & everyone in the game who meets him also immediately hates him just as much as you
Based. He was one of the characters that literally made me afraid having someone in the room by how uncomfortable they make you feel.
@@alhartdevoar5271 everytime he was talking to a girl I immediately take a break and pray to god
Honestly surprised Oldbags didn't make it, not even a HM, every time I see her I just feel a stab from my heart to my butthole as I clinch for how she screws over the case or stops you from getting clues, she's just a roadblock to stop sequence breaking or a extra testament to make the trials "interesting"(extend the trial).
The only fun thing she gave me was when a streamer had to talk to her and chat just screamed to get her off-screen as fast as possible.
@@256PiAlternate fair choice to not include him.
The trio from I1-3 was the best part of the video. The amount of really stupid and ridiculous stuff in this video is hilarious. *I can't believe you talked about the Regina and Trilo nonsense*
🤣
the worst part of nahyuta is that we all knew he was going to be “redeemed,” but we never actually SAW the process and just had to sit through his bs knowing we were supposed to like him by the end. he just flips a switch in the final case, and i wish we’d seen him even subtly struggle with the choices as he makes them
The characters that drive me most nuts are the ones where I see ON SCREEN how they could have developed better. Nahyuta waiting in a 6 hour fast food line to prepare for 6-2, and staying up all night memorizing Rakugo stories as he prepares for 6-4 prove he can be easily distracted and messy. Lean into that to show he is less prepared, but still able to fly by the seat of his pants in court, and you have a truly unique prosecutor. Make him serious in the case he finds most personal, and he becomes the genius that his reputation is built on. Not the disheveled mess we see, and you can make him an instant threat when you need him to be one. It's all there. Sometimes obvious decisions are perfectly ok so long as you execute them well. Which is why Espella was SO CLOSE to being great! Ugh, I feel myself heat up everytime I see the great choices they could have gone for.
@@Kaempfdog i’m just glad i’m not the only one!
@@Kaempfdog Thing is that Nahyuta couldn't be either distracted, nor messy. That wouldn't please Gahran at all and if she isn't pleased, then Rayfa's life is on the line. So Nahyuta must act as he does exactly because he knows his sister is in such a dangerous possition.
I also disagree that the final twist hurts Espella's character.
There was also this one time he mentioned being able to see the "karmic threads" that made up the case, which was just. Never expanded upon. The spectral butterfly, the floating sash, the way he considers the court proceedings to be "final rites"... It's like they dipped a toe into a possibly spiritual/supernatural prosecutor and just noped out of there. I *would* consider it to be "gamebreaking"/op, if we didn't have a SPIRIT SEANCE AND SPIRIT CHANNELINGS in the very same game. It could have been done well, or at least done at all, but they just dropped that unique and potentially intriguing part of his character.
Edit: There's thousands of ways to integrate it, like being able to "see" if a piece of evidence is relevant to the case, "emotionally connecting" with the victim (leading to this serenely calm prosecutor who has sudden outbursts in court cases), or just being able to tell if someone is spirit channeling. It doesn't even have to be something that affects the usual courtroom process, just anything.
@@Nixahma oh man, his whole character really is one big missed opportunity. that would’ve been awesome
DOes make me happy to see Larry get spared from the list. I'm a big Butz supporter and feel the man got done dirty in the writing department after 1-4. In AA1 Phoenix describes Larry as his BEST FRIEND, yet in every single future game he sees Larry as no more than a nuiscence he is unfortunate enough to know. Larry may have been a bit of an idiot but overall was pretty harmless in the grand scheme of it, even going so far as to OVERTURN A GUILTY VERDICT. SOme may argue he should have spoke up about what he remembered, but it would be perfectly in character for Larry to believe Phoenix can turn things around only for that verdict to be passed down and him realize 'oh crap Nick DOES need my help after all!'
Hell, you can easily work around his roles in the games to actually fit his AA1 writing without much needing to be changed. Instead of him being an incompetant skirtchaser, just keep him as a dude who is just constantly down on his luck in both career AND romance.The job hopping and numerous ex's being genuine bad luck rather than significant fault of his own. Then come 3-5, Larry *finally* finds his calling as an artist and emphasize his respect for his teacher for being the one who helped him find his true passion. Larry is a damn good artist and I feel his so called 'friends' adamantly refuse to even ACKNOWLEDGE he has genuine talent. And speaking of Elise, I've only recently been made aware that Larry should have also gotten a chance to grieve her death alongside Maya given she was important to BOTH of them.
...Sorry for the rant, I just like the Butz for who he could have been and got carried away.
Larry is a character we have a lot of praise for. Speaking as someone who has a few friends that didn't really grow up and they need to have eyes on pretty constantly to get out of trouble is a GREAT representation in the form of Larry. Some characters are nuisances on purpose, and YOU know he's harmless, but you always have to convince people he is. When he says he blackmailed someone on accident, you know he's serious. You know when he says he crawled down a chimney to make a dramatic entrance for a girl he likes via acting like Santa, you know he's serious. But NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would think that if you didn't grow up with him. You just think, oh god, I have to convince everyone he's just Larry. He DID graduate middle school....and implies he didn't go farther. So you gotta just watch his back so he doesn't get hurt.
His 6-6 debut is HYSTERICAL. Edgeworth, Ema, and Phoenix all coming in and going oh dear god we gotta clean up this mess. But the moment you're past that? Everyone is relatively ok with him again. You know Phoenix and Edgeworth get headaches as he describes stories and either poorly lies or are depressingly true, but I would argue that is EXACTLY why you keep that friend. Because it might be tough to clean up after him, but so long as he doesn't mean genuine harm, this guy is actually quite entertaining company.
We didn't so much as consider him for the ranking.
Personally, I think Larry keeps Phoenix and Edgeworth sane in their friendship. Larry saved Edgworth from the guilty verdict after all while Phoenix was up against a prosecuting god.
Larry Butz's issue is more that like Gumshoe, Takumi (and later writers) forgot how to write him past-AA1 (though Gumshoe was salvaged in Investigations 2 at least, poor Larry wasn't that lucky).
Dude, this is the Top 10 WORST characters list, not the Top 10 BEST characters! Why would Larry be anywhere near the worst list??
Iirc SoJ's DLC case remedies some of those things. Though at large i agree it's weird he's introduced as the dumb but beloved best friend of Nick but most of the series after Phoenix acts like he's an unfortunate acquaintance at best lol
Edit 2 days later lol: to be fair, Phoenix treats most everyone aside from Mia and Trucy as unfortunate acquaintances unless they genuinely require his help thinking about it lol
hard disagree with courtney. i think she and sebastian are absolutely intended to be despicable during the first two cases. their arcs would be very unsatisfying if they were just nice or calm. it’s also a clear consequence for edgeworth breaking the law in i2-1
It still feels like they are coming after Miles because he found out the truth
Agreed. They’re both neat spins on the judge and rookie prosecutor roles, especially since they aren’t even in a courtroom most of the time.
That Kane Bullard fake out was really good, I was so confused because I was like “hold on a second isn’t that I-4?”
I thought "wait... isn't that deid Mann...?? Nahh guess I'm wrong"
XD we took that bit from John Oliver. Whenever he covered countries you don't think about, he would say you think about it so little you didn't realize that I didn't put the correct country on screen. It works shockingly well. And while we worked on this project I think I actually fell for it myself.
@@Kaempfdog I wonder if you 2 do countdowns for Ace Attorney Fan Games? I definitely think you could do Best And Worst Court Breakdowns, Maybe a Top 20 Hilarious Ace Attorney Characters Countdown and a Villain/Antagonist Countdown or Ranking Video.
@@TevinBlair that’s asking A LOT. I think we will keep ourselves focused on the series that exists and perhaps what the series can be going forward.
But here’s the list of rankings we have planned. I announced them recently.
Best side characters
Funniest characters
Best Victims
Best Villains
Best Characters overall.
And we have other side projects planned like breaking down single story beats (I’m covering the Dark Age of the Law.) and we will cover TGAA like how we covered our case ranking. (And say where each case would land without updating the 2.5 hour video.)
@@Kaempfdog Fair enough. I still Rank The Breakdowns though.
I personally feel like the Kidnapped Turnabout was changed last second. Like I feel like Lauren Paups was intended to be the real killer, but they felt she was too similar to Alita Tiala, and so they very hastily changed it to the way it is now, hence why the case feels like such a mess.
I’m so glad they hardly mention the romance subplot with Ben, Regina, and Max in Big Top in the anime, I’m pretty sure they mention it ONCE in a small convo between Nick and Ben during the investigation
The anime version is way better, I stand by it.
We prefer the anime version over the game.
Yeah but for one thing it is mentioned a whole lot more than just once and in regardless the way Max refers to Regina in general is just creepy. And he is five years older than her while she is 16
@@3121Bana and Woodman is 31
@@Alex-c9h6vI mean in the anime. It’s not focused on but max still calls her sweetie continuously
About Windibank, I feel like despite the funny music playing, everyone still treats it decently seriously. Sholmes was just berating Windibank, but as soon as he put the gun ro his head, Sholmes goes °_° and tries to de-escalate the situation.
While the suicide part of windi whatever his name was was definitely bad
I do remember laughing at him suddenly getting up, running away, and then picking up a gun lmao
Was funny till he held it to his head
I like how tgaa made use of its 3D to make the characters actually move around the space they're in
Like how Sholmes is just suddenly screwing around during most investigation sections
I love it
Feels more real and probably part of the reason I felt so connected to the characters in that game
I miss them 😭
Idea on how to change windi while keeping the best parts: He threatens to shoot the cash register instead of himself
Don't know if this is good or not though
@jonathantonner4263 completely nonsensical and would accomplish nothing but I can't deny that I would laugh at that hahahaha
Pop Windibank ABSOLUTELY has the worst case of being ruined by a single joke. He could have been a very heartwarming presence and he just always found trouble to the point of being numb to it. Or he can see through everyone down to their core quite easily. (Also to Jonathan Tonner, I would be all for shooting the cash register screaming at an accursed machine. But only after threatening it for the time we converse. End off with helping him clean his store after he shoots it to connect us better as the last time we see him.)
@@Kaempfdog nothing hurts more than a good thing being ruined by one completely baffling or misjudged decision 😔
I still love every single time you just randomly see sholmes fucking around like when he’s singing in case 2 of tgaa and then immediately goes to punch you in the face
I think Nahyuta's character works better if you don't see him as putting up any kind of "front" in his interactions with others. He's not faking his antagonism because of the blackmail (the blackmail is still partly relevant to some of his behavior, but it's not the whole cause), he's genuinely resigned to the way things should be, and that there's no point in fighting the status quo like his father did. Or, in his words, "let it go and move on". Which is ironically a paradoxical statement for him, because it's a creed he both does and doesn't practice. Unlike Edgeworth, he refuses to reflect on any of his defeats, if anything he retreats further into his beliefs, becoming angrier and more ruthless in his tactics with each subsequent case.
LIkewise, I like how distinct he feels as a prosecutor. Unlike other prosecutors, he's willing to concede a lot of the smaller points, or at the very least, he's willing to let the defense build up their case first, before shattering them with a big picture theory. He's quiet and calm, doesn't interject very much during cross-examination, and for as frequently spiteful and antagonistic as he is towards the defense, he's ultimately in this to help let the dead rest in peace. He shows respect to the judge, even if it's not the Khura'inese judge, and he hates any kind of obfuscation, even if it might serve to benefit him (although as it goes on and his anger begins to boil, he starts resorting to dirtier tactics himself, specifically in 6-4). Someone wrote up his prosecution style (among others) here, and it's pretty thorough www.reddit.com/r/AceAttorney/comments/yi8ivz/how_nahyuta_counters_arguments_63/
Iunno, I think some of his dialogue can get pretty repetitive, and I don't think most of his development needed to *entirely* be backloaded in the final case, but I think his arc makes sense, and he's a genuinely talented prosecutor as well. I'm personally not a huge fan of him, but I never really understood the hate.
i gotta agree, like heck i personally didn't even know he was hated to begin with, much less expected him to be on this list.
given how he's from a place where people seem much more "spiritual", i thought his personality fit the environment pretty well (iirc)
I feel like Nahuyta and Ga'ran, or at least their relationship, was quite similar to Edgeworth and Manfred, they just tossed in Rayfa in the middle of it
And also, the other prosecutors, or at least the less infuriating ones of them, also didn't interrupt cross-examinations. I think the only one who did multiple times and intentionally were Franny and Godot (or Sebastian, but I didn't play Investigations, so I'm taking their word and saying his incompetence actually works in his favor). And also, he gets points with me for being one of the few prosecutors that actually respects the judge
He had a good concept, he's well written, but I wish it was more natural like the game did. I'm personally not a fan of him either, and found him rather infuriating more so than other prosecutors, but I also didn't know he was disliked since he had his moments. But they did also make some points too
One thing I wished they did was have him change his behaviour when not in his homeland.
Couldn't you argue Blackquill is the kind to let that occur himself? He doesn't just say that can't happen, Blackquill frequently entertains your bluffs and says this is what you need to have a chance of being correct. This, this, this, this, this and this. And you just sit there realizing you have none of those things and then he just says "and that is why you are dumb." He psychoanalyzes everything in a way that makes logical sense and not emotional. But when his emotions are tested, he leans more that way. Like going out of his way to not charge Jinxie in 5-2 even if he believed she did plant some things as the only one who had a chance. Its his soft side for kids that give him lots of depth. He stops saying Junie has to be the culprit once the much more logical culprit Professor Means appears and loses his alibi. He just makes Means make his argument. (Which Klavier also does which makes the AJ cases more facing the murderer aspect front and center than facing the prosecutor. Which I liked about Klavier.)
Nahyuta has aspects that work but the more you delve deeply, the less he has in comparison to his predecessors. We went out of our way to explore methods to make each of these characters more compelling if they were handled differently. And that is what the list is really about. Each of these characters should have been handled differently. They don't work as well as they could have been. However, none of them lack potential. Nahyuta is sitting on a GREAT deal of potential that was misused. And I don't have just one way to fix it. We just wished he was more of a goober trying to live up to his reputation. That was our idea. There would be quite a few things that would need to change if he were that way, but it definitely would've yielded a more unique arc among prosecutors.
@@Kaempfdog And I also personally found him infuriating with how repetitive he is, which I didn't feel for other prosecutors (despite the fact that some, when clearly lost, didn't know when to give up until the not guilty verdict, looking mostly at Franny who still argued even when she lost, but at least she had a reason due to her reputation as a von Karma so I wasn't too upset with her. That's all she has after all)
Glad to see my boy Brushel is spared
"Ace attorney fan makes list listing off worst characters, Reporter not impressed" End quote
Brushel isn’t an emotional core, he’s there for information. He’s an exposition character that got what he knows…in unique fashion. But he’s not someone that doesn’t care, he sits on all this info but he just keeps it all to himself because Zak is his friend. (He just comes off as neutral honestly) Sure he’s awkward but he’s written that way. I respect Spark Brushel a lot actually.
@Kaempfdog He's only bad in the design department, other than that, he could potentially make the top 10 best
Hell yeah, more hour long Ace Attorney videos. Just inject it into my veins.
We had to catch up to your length of ace attorney content somehow. XD It was SO HARD to not spoil my thoughts when we were talking a few weeks ago. I just muttered to myself: few more weeks. few more weeks.
Maybe Espella's (and Darklaw alongside) arc would have been better if they had focused more on everyone trying to 'protect' or 'fix her trauma for her' heck, tying her dad into it by having him justify his god complex behavior, manipulation, kidnapping/trapping people, the great fire being a result of his actions, etc by saying he was trying to protect her and create a world where she could be safe and happy would have added a lot on its own.
Darklaw could be dealing with this on top of her existing motivations and the Storyteller could use it as a shield to convince himself and others he is justified.
Meanwhile, Espella's peak of her trauma could be also related to the realization that even more bad stuff 'was her fault' but could come to realize that she had no agency in deciding these things, her father was manipulating her and everyone in town, and that in the end, the bell incident was an accident that wouldn't have happened if not for her father.
This could have led to a realization that she was assigning blame or guilt on to herself for things out of her control, that her father is abusive and also a villain, that she has people who care about her besides her father (particularly Darklaw who was in a similar spot)
And most importantly for the others, that none of them could heal her for her, and that a lot of the things people did do took away her agency and/or made it worse (mostly her dad)
For me it wasn't an issue of her not having enough willpower (unfortunately, healing takes more than just effort or wanting it badly enough, though those are the first steps)
I will say it also would have been tons better if the writers gave her more personality, goals, or just non-trauma related traits, as she really feels depersonalized to an object or plot device, which supports the opposite message to what they were going for, I think.
I saw one let's play of Great Ace Attorney where they tried to play off Windibank's gun as a strangely shaped phone that he used to call the writing department to ask if they've come up with a better joke for him
I think a lot of people would of preferred a 4th Wall Breaker who gets sick of his own main joke than what people actually got... so Good on that Let's play. What Let's Play is that by the way?
@@georgemeyers7172 it's on the channel Jello Plays Games. For context, a RUclips called jelloapocalypse used to stream on Twitch and saved his streams there, but then twitch banned him for unknown reasons, so he moved his streams onto youtube instead (twitch un-banned him eventually)
@@georgemeyers7172 It's on Jello Plays Games
@@georgemeyers7172 It's on Jello Plays Games
@@georgemeyers7172 The channel is called Jello Plays Games
You almost got me with that Luke Triton fake-out, I almost choked y'all through the computer screen lmao
I couldn't stop laughing oh my god I was prepared to fight but it was still so funny.
To say I was entertained by our bit is the understatement of the century, but what REALLY made it was just how SATISFYING it is to rant about that pompous thoughtless waste of oxygen.
And we had to awaken memories to do it and it just turned out perfect.
This is great stuff. Hope you make more of these!
I am a HUGE fan. I think you were the 1st RUclips channel I ever watched in your Twilight Princess LP, and I LOVED your Phoenix Wright plays. I can’t wait to see you play the 2nd game of Great Ace Attorney. (I heard you played the 1st.)
I guess I should mention that we have 5 more active lists regarding this series planned and they’ll be likely as large as this one. And CERTAINLY as in depth. The ace attorney franchise deserves all the love it can get.
courtney's arc is one of the best in aai2 whaaat
the doting extremely empathetic mother making swift and logical decisions in the most roundabout ways she can as soon as she sees a child (kay) in harms way is fantastic. like yes her moral code didn't budge until case 4 but that makes her so much more interesting. it's hard to go from hating to loving a character - most times it's intended, i stick around hating them 1000%. but given aai2's general. theme in regards to parents and their children, courtney is a standout and so so so extremely fantastic. it's weird you described her as only having an arc and depth in 4/5 when that depth and development is only felt BECAUSE of how she is in 2/3. that's how development worksss D: agree with the majority of the video but almost everything about her character (as w most main characters arcs in the duology) is perfection
also i feel like a few of your criticisms towards the duology can only be applied to aai1. "too much plot and not enough character" in particular; the biggest standout of aai2 to me is how perfectly most of the characters arcs and development flow with each case in a way that is both engaging for the specific cases, and also good pacing and depth for each characters development!
@@mehspacedoritonah she is garbage
Honestly the biggest problem with Nahuyta is my biggest problem with Apollo. I love Apollo as a character, I think his petty little bitchiness is his best quality, but what is with his backstory. It's like they didn't have one for him in the first game and then tried to flesh it out as time went on but it ended making his past extremely weird and nonsensical. The biggest problem i have with this backstory is Nahuyta. He's so two dimensional that there is no emotion between the two characters, something you really, really need for the story you're trying to tell. I don't care about Nahuyta's past with Apollo and God I wish I could because that could've been an extremely interesting idea. Can you imagine how unlikable Simon would've been if he was as un fleshed out as Nahuyta?
And the person his age he shows genuine emotion towards, is just an unfleshed passing mention in DD.
We are not privy to the reasons why ourselves, save for what Apollo himself conveys. We are barely privy to hints.
If the stories reverted, maybe the two backstories would make better sense, or feel more purposeful... Apollo having someone to rely on, would balance his crankiness and feel like he has one minimum of a base.
Instead, he is broken for the sake of breaking him, and what is the payoff? More breaking and a Nahyuta. A poor return, in my opinion.
You have issues with Apollo for something that is not even a character flaw, but a writing conundrum...
I don't know what to say to you about that.
A properly fleshed Terran (even as a suspect) and a passing-mention Nahyuta could have been a better way around the two backstories.
Makes more sense if Nahyuta was dead and Apollo goes to Khu'ra'in to fix the system in his memory.
Such a 'turnabout' must exist.
In a parallel universe, at least.
@@LathropLdST I think I perhaps misspoke. I love apollo, his sassy bitchiness is amazing, I just think his backstory is a goddamn mess. It's a shame because if Nahuyta and Terran were fleshed out it could've been extremely interesting. Also the Nahuyta idea could be interesting, maybe if he's dead then his sister (the queens daughter, I honestly can't remember if she's his sister) and Apollo has to try and unravel this whole terrible puzzle culminating in him and the sister taking down the corrupt queen. Hell, you wouldn't even have to change much.
Also yeah, Terran really needed a proper introduction before his death. It's like Mia, you get to see the impact she has on Phoenix before they kill her off so even if you don't feel the same you at least get to see why Phoenix cares so much.
Ace attorney crew rolling a wheel to decide on what apollo’s next backstory should be
11:00 To me, the best moment in JFA case 3 is at the beginning, when Phoenix uses the phrase "Absolutely cringe inducing"
windibank wasn't "joking about suicide" - it was meant to show how seriously he took his job. holding the gun to his head most likely meant to represent "British Seppuku".
It's fun because Ben is actually one of my favorite character. i really take the plot seriously as either "Trilo and Ben are separate entity" or that Ben is actually SO dedicated to his job that he play the character of his puppet very SERIOUSLY. In either case, in my mind he cannot love Regina, because in the first case it's just trilo, in the second it's just a roleplay of Trilo he make, and he personally isn't interested. He his one of the few character of the case that explicitly said he isn't interested, while even THE JUDGE make an awkward sentence about Regina being beautifull and all.
I found Trilo really extreme and fun, being a counterpart of his "human" compagnon, being a total jerk in comparaison make me laugh. He got one of my favorite sentence of the game "Let me lay it all out for you... The pay sucks... The clown sucks... And my partner has his hand up my pants."
You know you spent too much time in these games when you immediately realise it wasn't Kane Bullard on the screen ahahah
Espella might not have actually rung the bell, but she still believed she did, and also saw the fire engulfing the town. That's pretty traumatic for a young girl. Her attempting to end her own life even after learning the truth still fits, I think. What was happening in Labrynthia is horrifying when you really think about it - just look at Jean's story, - and it was all done by her father for her benefit. She was also still the one who took Eve up to the tower with the intent of ringing the bell. I'm not saying she's actually at fault, but it's easy for me to see why she feels like she is. And throughout the whole story, she's fine with dying if it means the suffering of everyone else will stop, which continues to fit with her. I don't have any particular attachment to Espella, just my thoughts.
I actually don't really like Darklaw, because I saw her actions as genuine hatred for Espella. The Storyteller wouldn't have known what was going on if not for Layton, because he's so detached.
That's what I think
Exactly, Espella doesn’t need to be responsible for the fire to be traumatised by it. She saw hundreds of people die in a fire as a child, and had enough reason to believe that she was responsible. I don’t think the suicide was well thought out at all though, not only in terms of logistics (how did this teenage girl outrun the entire town? why was no one guarding the tower?) but also in terms of motivation, Layton spelled out the truth very clearly and Espella just basically said “nuh-uh”. I can see how she might be overwhelmed enough to CONSIDER suicide but her jumping off the tower is nonsense.
When you put Nahyuta here
I was offended, but when you bring up your points about why he is here, I feel relieved.
I'm glad that for you, it's just that Nahyuta was not explored properly, since I also think that is the main problem.
I am a Nahyuta fan, but I also have the EXACT same complaint about him as you do.
Here is my solution to fixing him:
Making him help the protagonist, e.g.
In magical turnabout, when you are accusing Reus at the end of the revisualization of moving the coffin (I think I don't really remember the details), Nahyuta is bringing Reus down with Apollo since Nahyuta's belief is to "make the victim feel free" by bringing down the culprit.
And also, Nahyuta accused Trucy that she could have also moved the coffin.
I would change that Reus is making that claim and that Nahyuta is objecting for the FIRST TIME against the culprit and saying what Apollo said to Nahyuta for counterargument.
And also, I think he should apologize to Trucy for the misunderstanding (same for Maya).
The same thing happens in "Rite of Turnabout."
I would put him with Wright to investigate the hideout so we can interact with him (maybe even make Nahyuta realize what really happened in the hideout since he SUPPOSEDLY "is the one who can predict what happened").
During Tahrust's testimony, Nahyuta is having second thoughts about Maya being the killer and is giving you hints.
I would even say that Nahyuta has a personal connection with Tahrust.
So he is willing to defend Tahrust, but as the cross-examination goes on, he is having doubt and actually figured out BEFORE the player that he committed suicide (just did not want to believe it).
Also, in Turnabout Storyteller, the only thing I would change is that Nahyuta is having a reaction to making Athena feel trauma, making him feel concerned and apologize for his rudeness.
I would not change his behavior in this case so the player could dive into his character because why is he so different than in previous cases?
In a turnabout revolution, some things I would change
First of all, Dhurke
I think he should say that Nahyuta must be hiding something, or something like that.
In California, I would also put Nahyuta there (I thought that maybe Nahyuta is with Apollo and Athena against Wright, but I don't know how to do it narratively).
And in Khurain, I would not really change anything.
Maybe once Nahyuta is freed from Ga'ran, he is going to insult her so many times (he only roasted her once; I think it would be better if he insulted her much more).
Also, I like that no one cares that Nahyuta actually cares for Ema.
This is the first time that the prosecutor is being tolerant toward the detective. He even acknowledged her for her work. (It is a shame that this wasn't also explored.)
and that's about it.
What do you think about my version of Nahyuta?
I want to see comments about it
YES, this is how Nahyuta SHOULD have been written in my opinion, if there is anything that I would change for turnabout revolution though, Well, have a scene after the murder of minister inga, Nahyuta is being treated like a dirt again in front of Apollo and the others, then he will finally break down and leave, it's my opinion though. And sorry if my English isn't that great, I'm not a native speaker of English.
@@lovemoonforever6068 that is fine
Im also not native
I forgot to add something to my previous comment
Spoilers to dhurke in SOJ
When Dhurke twist happens,Garan is laughing at dhurke death
I would make that nahyuta finally snaps and slaps her in the face(this would much more impactful)
@@diesakuma367 GOOD IDEA! Like no one would just stand there while their dead father is being MOCKED.
@@lovemoonforever6068 well he is blackmailed by her so I get it why he did not do it
But I think anyone would snap in this situation,plus this would give him another moment to shine
Also later when garan is forcing nahyuta to confess this would also tie up to this cause she would be pissed at him
Also I think as a bonus there should one case after revolution so we can see how nahyuta is actually prosecuting with nornal system this time(DLC would fit this category but we have Turnabout time traveler ig)
@@diesakuma367 mhm, well I. My opinion the entire game should have been set in khura'in, just like how the entire tgaa: chronicles takes place in Britain aside from the first case, that would have given the characters Time to shine!
And if they really want to make Blackquill appear then make him the defendant. (Ik my guy just got out of prison but still)
I'm gonna point out that real life has vindicated Alba in still being a threat purely because of his choice of venue for his killing spree- Jamal Khashoggi's assassination indeed proved it is VERY difficult to get jurisdiction in a murder in an embassy, no matter how blatantly obvious it is to everyone who the killer is.
Now this is a monumental moment in history
Alba treated the loss of PERSONAL extraterritorial rights as a temporary setback because there appeared to be no evidence actually proving the theory that the murder happened in the Theatrum Neutralis until the very end. It's why he is so eager to participate in the word duel in the first place: not knowing about the hot dog box blot of blood, he thought there was no evidence to tie the crime to Theatrum, or to tie him to the crime. Of course, you can presume that someone on the Ahlebast cover up team could have squeaked about the cover-up of the murder evidence, but that's entirely different speculation. The main point Lang notes after the extraterritorial rights is that his police actually searched the whole Theatrum thoroughly and found nothing.
Yeah, the most egregious thing about Ben is that he doesn’t get the same treatment every other character in Big Top. I already really like the case by itself, and it’s just Ben and Trilo + the cringeworthy love triangle holding it back. The latter half of Big Top is one of my favorite parts of JFA (besides… the entire finale of course) because both of those things are effectively gone from the plot, but it did come at the cost of Ben and Trilo’s character.
Wesley I can agree on. He was the weak link in terms of characters in AJ for me
Alba… I agree with all of your points. I’m not sure if I would put him on a list of my own if I made one but I cannot deny that him being the final villain makes things hurt more.
Manny Coachen… who? Ok moving on.
All 3 living case-exclusive I1-3 characters suck. It wouldn’t be so bad if just one of them sucked, BUT HOW DID THEY MESS UP ALL THREE? The I1-2 crew was so much better, even if none of them are amazing.
I agree on all your Nahyuta points… again not sure if I would have him on a personal list but the fact that he’s the MAIN PROSECUTOR is like extra points deducted.
All of your HM are completely valid
It's pretty telling people actually decided to listen to why we argued in favor of 2-3 this time. XD We had to do a LOT of justifying of that decision.
What are your thoughts on the Crossover picks?
@@Kaempfdog No thoughts, haven’t played it yet, not due to a lack of interest, just haven’t gotten around to it. You didn’t spoil anything though, everything mentioned was something I already knew from having put it off for so long. I’ve been spoiled for AA games and still enjoyed them, so it’s not too big of a deal. I’ll come back once I’ve played it
If they had pushed that Ben is only putting on an act and has no actual interest in Regina outside of making her laugh with his puppet, he would immediately become more likable. But the game neither confirms nor denies it, which makes people unsettled.
1:08:53 Suicide being called a selfish act is a huge widespread myth/misconception.
It removes and ignores any and all complexity to what a person is going through and how they’re feeling in the situation, which unfortunately a lot of people tend to forget.
By saying “killing yourself is the most selfish thing a person can possibly do and is only going to deeply hurt the people you love” is EXTREMELY dangerous to say and it outright invalidates a person’s feelings and puts blame onto them.
The more I listened near the end, the more upset I was of what you guys where saying about Espella, not because I have any attachment to her character, but most of time, people who are suicidal believe that what they’re doing is not selfish, but a *selfless* act, because they believe it’s the right thing to do, for they feel they are a burden to those that love them and are helping them, which Espella believes herself, for she greatly cares for her Father, Eve, for everyone. She doesn’t want them to hurt anymore because of her.
There is ignoring at to the reasons *why,* the *why* she is even wanting to kill herself to begin with. Because everything- to the town, the brainwashing, the witch trials, and what her father is doing, is all because of *her.* Not just the incident, but the bigger, greater picture of the story itself. So of course she feels responsible despite being completely innocent.
Even though factually proven outright, the thing is, she was not in the right state of mind and was in an severe state that is in no way conscious and or rational. The more I think and remember about Espella during the climax in the final trial, while I understand why people say what she was doing came out of nowhere, that’s the point. She’s experiencing such high emotional pain, it’s unbearable. So much so, it muffles out any and all facts and reasons. The incident absolutely still matters to her, and I would argue her character wasn’t done as poorly as you said, with the only criticism I can say is that they could’ve done more and written her with more personality, giving her more character outside of the plot. And even then, I don’t think she’s as bad and ruins the story at all.
I understand the bluntness with what you guys were trying to say, you both meant no harm, but I believed your choice of words could’ve been done a lot better at handling what you guys wanted to explain.
Sorry if this sounds aggressive and or sound like I’m attacking you guys. I debated in commenting this because I couldn’t stop thinking about it. This was hard to write and I hope I made this as clear as I could to explain my upsetting at the end.
I’m going to say this, we ABSOLUTELY did not choose our words wisely enough and we apologize for that.
I have apologized to a number of people already. And I wanted to clarify a few things. Someone who is suicidal and has yet to cross the line can still be helped, listened to, and can be gotten on the road for recovery. Someone who has COMPLETELY crossed the line is someone who is no longer able to be helped at all. We did not include pulling the plug as that means the doctor physically can’t do anything more and it’s completely viable.
Is this line of thinking still off it’s marker? Yes. We genuinely meant no harm. The only narrative attack of Espella truly is she is found innocent and then she makes the attempt. Not entirely unrealistic in real life when its so tied to misguided mindsets. (Not sure if misguided fits for the wording.) But on the narrative perspective, in a fictional story, it’s a genuine blunder for an entire game spanned arc as that isn’t what the story was building to. And as it deflated the build up so spectacularly, what remains is much harder to justify.
We will ensure any further remarks on the subject will be much more carefully worded. And I’ll leave a pinned comment just in case.
No, it is selfish. That's not an issue of complexity. This is just you virtuesignaling Zoulstar.
Also, 89% of the time, suicide is THEIR CHOICE.
@@OneManCast People who are depressed and are driven to suicide are never- NEVER- in the right state of mind, to the point where they are driven by such dread it kills them. So to say it was “their choice” to feel that way, ignores and invalidates said person, and overall guilt trippy by turning one’s feelings against them to say they are “the problem”, and that’s the last thing you ever want to do in that situation.
There’s a dividing line between those who _are_ selfish and people who are willing to put in the effort into changing themselves and get better. I just don’t see the point in trying to blame someone/people of something that’s out of their control, and how they feel about it.
@@OneManCasttell me you didn't read and understand that without telling you didn't read or understand that
Having suicidal thoughts and tendencies is not selfish at all. Neither is it selfish to try and reach out for help or let people know of the struggles you are going through. However, the actually committing suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do, and there's nothing wrong with saying that. Just cuz the intention may be "selfless" doesn't make it actually so, because it's something that only comes through considering your own warped perspective, and not considering what other people would have to go through. Thereby being selfish. In fact it's something some people genuinely need to hear, to understand that by going through with they are destroying so many lives, to have to clean up after the mess they left behind. Hearing something very similar to what was said in the video is genuinely what helped me get over my own tendencies, and I've seen another comment literally straight up saying that them saying what they said in this specific video helped them. So I'd say they handled it well.
If there’s any character that I’d add to this list, it’s Aura Blackquill.
Given her situation, the reasonable thing to do is do an actually good research, or kindly ask Phoenix for help. Instead, she kidnaps 12 innocent people and threatens to kill them (plus she ACTUALLY kills them in 2 of the bad endings), all in a sorry attempt to use Athena as a scapegoat. She doesn’t even acknowledge the accidental killing idea, and straight up accuses Athena of killing her mother with a katana. She even mentions a murder motive.
If that’s not bad enough, the evidence that shows another suspicious person on the scene (bleeding hand and wearing the victim’s jacket) is in the exact same camera footage she herself provided, which goes to show how piss-poor her investigation was. She was even worse than Nahyuta in that. The fact that she never acknowledged that piece of evidence before Phoenix mentioned it (despite it being RIGHT UNDER HER NOSE), and even then still insists on Athena being a killer, plus takes glee in Athena facing conviction even after being proven innocent of killing her mother, shows that her sole motive in all that is her ego and childish obsession with Athena. She didn’t care about the truth, and she was completely disrespectful to her brother and her best friend. Her actions make her as bad as actual terrorists.
The worst part is that she doesn’t regret her actions at all, and never gets scolded for it. Not even by Phoenix, who says her actions are inexcusable. Plus Simon still tries to hire Phoenix or Athena to defend her. After all the things she did, they expect us to feel bad for her?????? Give me a break.
Godot had a similar attitude with Phoenix, but at least he didn’t accuse him of murder, he never held anyone hostage, his backstory is explored more deeply and is more relatable, he actually shows regret for his actions, and the only person he ever tried to kill was Dahlia, who is an absolute menace, and is already dead.
Also, his comedic moments are much more entertaining.
I feel like if they made Lauren Paups the killer, The Kidnapped Turnabout would’ve been a little easier to go through
honestly, i think espella is a well written character. even at the end of he game, i think her attempting to kill herself isn’t that far off. That being said, i wish she would have tried to kill herself purely for all that she’s gone through, instead of still believing she was the problem. for her to be the worst written character of the series is a stretch, especially because she doesn’t majorly derail any of the layton ace attorney plot.
It’s more she IS such a factor to the plot. Her believing herself guilty when she was just proven innocent and can begin her road to recovery is VERY narratively flawed and arc derailing. And as you say, it could very well work if it’s done the way you say. But it ALL lands on Espella’s arc, not the plot of the story which we still say works.
42:44 "he accepted a half-assed apology and turned on edgeworth"
...maybe check the wording on that one again 😂
As far as I know "heel turn" would imply the character is turning to the objectively villainous side whereas a character seeing the light to be redeemed would be classified as a "face turn."
i love youtube videos where it’s two siblings talking about something bc the context of u guys being siblings means u know how to bounce ur humor off of each other perfectly. i love seeing the videos with both of u and i wish all/most of the videos were like that because comedically yall are so strong together
And now the list of the best characters:
1)Franziska
2)Franziska
3)Franziska
4)Franziska
5)Franziska
6)Kay Faraday
7)Kay Faraday
8)Kay Faraday
9)Kay Faraday
10)Gregory Edgeworth
FANTASTIC video, i could listen to you guys talk about AA all day. your takes are more nuanced than a lot of opinions on the games, which is really enjoyable, but you’re also just hilarious lol
this thumbnail made me realise that wright puts his fingers in between his hair spikes when he puts his head in his hands, and they fit perfectly, like slots
I still maintain that Turnabout Reclaimed succeeds at everything Turnabout Big Top and Turnabout Storyteller fail at. Even down to having a redeemable culprit.
Wow a new Kaempfdog vid is not what I thought I'd see today but it is a very welcome surprise! Happy 2023 to all of us and thank you for a new vid :)
The thing about Big Top is that they are meant to be annoying, and they fulfilled those roles perfectly.
This is the video I did not know I needed in my life today, but now that I have it, it's absolutely become the highlight. 🙂 You won't hear any objections from me to more entertaining and intelligent Ace Attorney discussion on the internet 😉
SPOILERS FOR THE RANKING
Espella being #1 surprised me, but makes all the sense in the world the more you explained it. I liked her just fine for a lot of the game, but upon reflection, I absolutely agree there was a lot of missed potential with her character; especially with the ending.
I might personally sub her out with Sanmadhi depending on my mood, but otherwise? Every placement here feels right to me 🙂
An honorable mention from me - if "worst" is equated to missed potential instead of disliking a character - would be Zacharias Barnham from PL vs AA. I liked his character development throughout the first two trials as he learns to question more what he assumes to be true and use "his sword of truth" alongside force to ensure justice is done. It just felt like there was more to his character arc that we should have gotten. Perhaps one more trial to bring things to a close? Not sure.
As it is, I still find him to be a good knight; just not a great one. An enjoyable character, but not a standout amongst the other series antagonists.
Zacharias Barnham we felt was executed well, we just wish he wasn't dropped for the story finale. But the reality is his arc was complete when he left. We have nowhere fitting to have him enter because we felt Professor Layton becoming the final inquisitor was PERFECT for the finale to go after Eve Belduke. But would have been BETTER if he came in to prove Espella was guilty, and SHE WAS and the investigation of the tower had Layton confirm it in a way you would only notice on replays that the clues ARE there.
The fact that the alternate reality of Espella being guilty makes me a fan of her makes this WORSE. She would be SUCH a well remembered character if they just followed through.
@@Kaempfdog That's a good point regarding Barnham! Eve being the penultimate prosecutor after being an antagonist for most the game was indeed quite cool, as was Layton's role as the final one. As much as it would've been cool to see more of Barnham, I think you're right; much of his arc was done by the end of that second trial. Him not appearing in the finale - just the epilogue- felt weird, but his actual development was complete.
And yeah; Layton coming in to definitively prove that Espella WAS guilty after investigating the tower would've been so rad! It would've been a great subversion of expectations, and I think the gentlemanly professor in particular would've been equipped to not only articulate why she was guilty, but had the empathy and tact to give her encouragement alongside Eve to help her move past her trauma. Alas, that alternative, cooler version of the ending was not to be . :/
Anyways, again great work on the ranking :) Both in this video and in your case ranking- which I've seen a few times already- you both have done an incredible job articulating why Ace Attorney cases or characters do or don't work for you; you're both eloquent, entertaining and persuasive :)
Pop Windibank has the funniest joke in GAA, he’s also an absolute unit who valiantly defended his shop and Gina from the Skulkin Twins. Literally threw one of them over the counter. He does not deserve this slander
Just got to #1 and I feel extremely validated in my shared hatred of this character, THANK YOU
Omg the puppet scoring is legit some of the funniest shit I have ever heard
That conversation occurred out of context one day as we went through this list. And my brother loved it so it was kept for the final product. Worth it.
WOOO Great to see you two back, loved your other videos! :D
There's a couple of bad characters in AA but most of them really are great :) The characters and their personalities are what dragged me into this fandom in the first place (watching fully voice acted playthroughs helps xD)
Every single person here has the POTENTIAL to be real people with how well they're written. We even justified why nearly all of these characters could have escaped being on the list. The fact we can do that for everyone but Kane Bullard and Deid Mann goes to show how amazing they are. (Those two are just pictures. You would pretty much have to start from scratch to get either of these two a character. But hey, it's pretty unintrusive.)
@@Kaempfdog still cant with the fact they unironically named a murder victim deid mann
This is getting me hyped for “Top 10 Best Ace Attorney Characters.”
That will be our finale of the lists. But every single one we work on from here on we will try to match the quality
I have to defend Nahyuta here because a lot of his faults are not actual problems with his character and moreso problems with the fact that the writers didn't have the right amount of focus to clarify certain things about him at the right times. (SPOILERS FOR SPIRIT OF JUSTICE BELOW)
If you really just take an outline of his arc and measure it on the extreme scale of blackmailing and abuse of power that he's stuck under in a VERY corrupt system, then a lot of what he does makes at least decent sense. And let's be honest: Prosecutors having a majority of their story sandwiched into only the final case or so is pretty commonplace for Ace Attorney games, no matter how popular or not they are. So Nahyuta's not exactly doing anything that different from the formula we're used to.
Where problems arise is how everyone reacts to him, particularly his father. I like Dhurke as much as the next person in general, but they really hit him with the idiot stick in regards to the fact that it seems that he didn't even THINK that MAYBE his son was in a powerless/unfavorable position. While this could be an interesting point to explore if it was meant to show that Dhurke's single-minded devotion to his revolutions has him sometimes lose sight of the small things, the issue is that quite literally everything is framed to be against Nahyuta as if he's always wrong and everyone else is right and he made all of his own choices when it's pretty damn clear he didn't if you stop and think about Khura'in's system for more than two seconds. Nahyuta is interacted with in only negative lights for a majority of his screen time, which makes us, the audience, want to react the same way. If more people like Apollo or Athena or really anyone were allowed to be granted a more sympathetic view of him (Like seriously, how did Athena never notice anything going on?), then the perception of him at large would change without even having to change that much about Nahyuta himself.
There's also the issue that most new prosecutors start off prosecuting some random person during their debut that won't have that much impact on our main characters, which is usually when they're at their most dickish and before the development train gets going. However, Nahyuta was set to prosecute TRUCY and the MAYA back to back, two already beloved characters, during this phase. So that combined with unfocused writing puts him in an even worse light that he really didn't deserve. And then to stack even more onto that, Turnabout Storyteller ends up being narratively pointless when that time could've been spent splitting Turnabout Revolution into two parts, thus giving more writing time to the most important things, like Nahyuta and other aspects of the Khura'inese characters in general.
This is admittedly also a point that might be contested, but as someone studying to get a Master's in Psychology, Nahyuta also displays relatively clear signs of being Neurodivergent Coded, which would in turn affect his social interactions and how he would process and respond to certain things. But that's something that would pretty much never be explored in ANY Ace Attorney game unless it's being made into a plot point, which only further isolates Nahyuta in a bubble of not being properly understood.
TLDR: Nahyuta's biggest faults as a character really aren't on him and the traits he was given. They're a product of unfocused writing and a lack of clarity where it should exist, which leaves him feeling almost incomplete because he wasn't viewed as important enough by the writers to create an arc like his properly.
As a neurodivergent: he just like me fr
(okay not entirely, but after reading that bit I was able to think of an example of said behavior in like three seconds)
Never use the term "coded". It makes you sound REALLY dumb, especially when the reason for you using said term is really dumb and at worst makes YOU come off as the offensive one (like calling Knuckles the Echidna, the characters whose music genre in the SA games was a mix of jazz and rap, and who tends to be kinda stupid especially during the Meta Era, "black-coded", completely ignoring the fact that his ancient clan is based on Mesoamerican peoples). Just say you think Nahyuta is "Neurodivergent" or whatever normal person term for that is instead of using PC language only used by closeted and projecting bigots.
@@espurrseyes42 as someone who is neurodivergent: the word neurodivergent-coded is fine
@@Nixahma
As someone that is black and thus had a horse in this coded race (hence the specific example), -coded is not fine. There's plenty of ways to say what you want to say without using bigot-coded language, and you and your Masters should be able to do something that simple.
@@espurrseyes42
- coded is not fine
- uses coded
You're a hypocrite, and you're creating this problem yourself. Just because the word coded was used incorrectly and offensively once doesn't mean it should never be used again, and it definitely doesn't mean you have the authority to decide that.
As someone who played the great ace attorney duology before it was localized, the Hurt Vortex joke was hilarious!
I legit looked at your channel yesterday and wondered "man, I wish these guys would post again..."
Imagine my surprise seeing this in my subscriptions!
Good news is we’re back! Bad news is I don’t foresee many projects being under a year of effort.
I’ve been waiting for this, glad it’s finally out. Don’t feel rushed, but I hope to see more videos in the future.
I'd be really interested to see great ace attorney content from you guys
justine, nahyuta, and espella getting on this list and not hickfield is absolutely insane
Let's gooo, it's always nice to get the bad out of the way first to be able to get to the good stuff. And I agree - the baseline quality of most of these characters is quite high. It makes these games so fun to replay, because you tend to discover new stuff, even small details each time. At that point, I kinda agree with the notion that the worst characters are the ones that had the most lost potential, or that were even outright "missing" a piece in a way. Also I'm happy that Oldbag isn't here, wahaha. I know most people don't like her, but I find her chatty old woman shtick funny enough to never really get on my nerves.
Now for the characters you DID end up ranking... yes.
10) Thank you so much for going so in-depth about this whole romance angle between Trilo and Ben. I thought your discourse was genuinely hilarious, as well as absolutely true to the character writing in this game. Regina was so sheltered that she would have genuinely married a puppet, and I like to think that Ben just entertained her in that regard as well.
9) Not that bad of a character, yes, but I too remember being initially irritated by the whole panties thing. That kind of pervy humour seems to be the one thing that I'm not quite on board with with Shu Takumi, but thankfully it pretty much disappears in the later games (though I haven't finished GAA yet)
8) Drags on for way too long, good lord
7 + 6) Major agree for all the reasons you stated. It's frustrating when a character is or should by all accounts be interesting, and then they just... never get back to that.
5) I had genuinely blocked this character from my memories. Upon seeing him I went like "oh he wasn't so bad", but hearing the tune made everything come back to me and... ugh.
4 + 2) Likewise, I think I just played through this case once or twice and do remember the characters being annoying enough that I'm hesitant to go back to that particular game. Although I did really like the little thief gimmick, the cursed proto-badger and Oldbag.
3) Nahyuta was the main reason why it took me literal months to finish the game. He is no fun at all, just an obnoxious foe that's not even that satisfying to take down save for the final case. I agree that his backstory makes sense, but they could have tried a little harder to at least give him SOMETHING. I liked your example about him getting carried away with the Rakugo stories, or having ANYTHING tying his and Apollo's past closer. But as it stands, he's the worst prosecutor by a wide margin and making my way through all his repititive dialogue on my replay is something I dread.
1) Yes. Yes. Yes. I was never a fan of the "helpless girl that doesn't want to be a bother to anyone, but you can't help but wanting to protect her" trope and as such always found her obnoxious. Even the similarly bland Layton girls like Flora do actually have personality quirks, and I attribute Flora's lack of action more to the fact that the writers give her next to nothing to do more so than her being a bad character per se. But Espella? I was waiting for something, anything to come from her as she gets to hang out with everyone and becomes more at ease around them. But no, everyone just likes her instantly and wants to protecc. She honest-to-god reminds me of a fanfiction-self-insert character, down to the fact that in the end, she didn't even commit the thing she is trying to chastise herself for. It is so obnoxious. There are aspects of the game I liked, but Espella was a major, and I mean major factor in me not vibing that well with the game overall. Not really liking your defendant for one case, but having to drag one annoying defendant like her around with you all game? One that it appears a character I actually love and care about - Maya - even "sacrifices" herself for? The whole game's story literally revolves around her, and she is the worst part of the whole game? Come on... we know you can do better than that!
I did like her backstory with Eve in the end, and maybe on a replay knowing exactly what I'm getting into I might ease up on her a little bit, but as it stands... yes, I really didn't like her. I never really thought about making my own list, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find a character I disliked more than her.
Well done on your analytical comment. I still remember how good your full case justification comments were.
We went head over heels to find reasons to get each character OFF this list. And the sad part was, aside Kane Bullard and Deid Mann? (Who have no character at all or are so rapidly uninteresting they might as well not.) Not a SINGLE person on this list LACKED justification to spare them the dishonor. Things like HAD the mistake of Espella not occurred, she would likely hurdle to the OTHER side of the spectrum. Her trauma story would have been FANTASTIC and could justify her build up as being shell mode would have what it would need. Her being meek and quiet would feed into her trauma which restrains her in nearly every way. It's still less interesting than Athena, but EVERYTHING would fit. Layton would come in and accuse Espella, and as the mastermind perfect man he is, HE would understand with the context who did it MUCH faster than Phoenix would.
And I find it genuinely funny we awakened repressed memories for Birdly.
The crossover is a relatively mid-tier ace attorney game. But a TOP OF THE LINE Layton game. Not that Layton is objectively worse, it just plays into Layton's strengths a bit more, and a bit better.
Only other one to bring up is Alba. They needed to be a bit more clever with how they kept him going. Because they DID go about as long for him as other finale killers. But the fact his ambassadorship was revoked far too soon, and they don't follow through with Kay, and they needed to be more clever with the final pieces to beat Alba. (Maybe have the Yatagarasu's evidence be the finishing blow.) It actually needed more AND less. A shuffle of information would have greatly helped.
Good stuff all around.
@@Kaempfdog Characters like Birdly or even like Furio Tigre and Moe are the bane of my existence in games like this. I love these games' dialogue and try to read more of it by pressing whenever I can, and those characters were either not allowing that way of playing or downright "punished" it. Doesn't help that it took me a good while to get used to the whole "multiple Witnesses at once" thing and had to go through some dialogues many times to get moving. It really is funny that I forgot about all that until his tune of all things brought my memories back.
And yeah, had they not gone for the twist, I might be more generous with her as well. I like the idea of her facing her Trauma with the support of the main characters. But the way they did it it just read like I described above to me. Definitely a bit sad how she, like you said, basically did a 180 just because of that one little twist. They wouldn't have lost anything upon removing that twist, or making the connection between the girls more pronounced, to have Espella help Eve with her trauma or... something.
Hmm, I don't know about the Layton games. Personally, I replayed the six main games over the course of the last year and see it more as a mid-tier Layton game that doesn't get near the likes of Diabolical Box and Unwound Future. But that's up to your taste, of course. I thought the explanation in the crossover was particularly asinine, even for Layton games. Down to the fact that these two pairs live in different eras, or how Phoenix and Maya were made to be susceptible to the hypnosis. Or the ethics of bringing them in at all because the Storyteller originally stated that everyone in the village came there fully consenting to take part in the experienced and be hypnotized. It just doesn't feel like there was good enough communication between the different story departments. But I definitely liked that many of the puzzles allowed you to move stuff around or try it out instead of going for, say, math puzzles. Or of course the natural chemistry that came of the new matchups (I loved Maya and Luke together).
Are you two by chance interested in making a video about the Crossover in the future? I feel like there is a lot to be said about it. And I'd be very curious to hear your takes on it.
@@Penkeychain I will not deny it. We WERE considering a full video. But literally all our thoughts are more or less covered by the lists. The only thing I can think of is maybe streaming a playthrough one day. But that’s not a close by project.
I will also say that considering Miracle Mask is my current favorite Layton, I know I can be a bit of an outlier at times. What really helps the crossover for me is I LOVE the medieval setting. I’m a sucker for the stuff from that era. I just can’t get enough of it. And I don’t find the world reveal more ludicrous than giant underground replica of London (mostly) or everyone is robots that shut off when we touch money. Or the EVERYTHING IS REAL from Azran Legacy.
Beyond our planned projects, I’m not going to deny I’m not sure what the approach will be. I know I’m literally going to have YEARS to think about it, but that doesn’t make the approach any easier. We shall see.
@@Kaempfdog Oh really? That's pretty interesting. Between all the Layton Games, Miracle Mask sort of stuck with me the most, even if it's squarely in mid-tier for me. I remember that I was pretty disappointed by its story as a kid, but only now do I really understand why that was and begin to unravel the Script.
I'm actually working on an analysis on that game in particular because it fascinates me that much. It has a lot of stuff I really like, but also a lot of stuff that became a detriment to my enjoyment of the second trilogy in particular which had more to do with the writing than anything. It's still the best game in the second trilogy to me, and also still more fun than the first game, but the writing... it felt like it was super torn between the style of both trilogies, with the first trilogy telling these smaller stories that could all stand on their own, but the second one trying for a more interconnected overarching story to all three games (and the movie). I need to find a way to learn about its development more efficiently.
(And I'll give you that, yes, that whole Replica thing is not more "realistic" per se, but it felt a bit more coherent as opposed to the Crossover that straight-up has gaping plotholes. But everyone has their own limits and parameters to their suspension of disbelief, and that's also fine. )
But, same as with the Ace Attorney games, I don't consider a single Layton game to be a bad game (though I don't count Katrielle as a Layton game because that... is just Baby's first Layton and the most disappointing, sequelbaiting experience of the whole franchise)
Great video Kaemphfdog! well worth the wait! Allthough I will say Dr.Hotti is probably up there for my least favorite character... he is just... too unsettling for me
What keeps him off is he is meant to be an exposition doctor. And for us to be greeted by HIM, is genuinely funny. And every character responds as you would around such a guy except Trucy. And Phoenix makes sure he stays back. Some characters are designed to have specific responses to. And he doesn’t get in the way as much as Stickler.
God, it is SO GRATIFYING to see Espella at number one, but to be honest, I'm not sure if she even belongs on any character list. She's NOT a character. She's a prop. She could be replaced with a pretty amulet or something with minimal rewrites.
This is why, when it came to a fanfic I wrote set ten years later, she has a PERSONALITY. She's a psychologist now because she wants to understand other people's actions, mostly the actions of her awful dad, and she's running on simmering fury for the life she was forced to live and how awful everything was. I also made her a bit of a disaster lesbian who gets flustered around beautiful women, because why the heck not
As for Nahyuta, I feel like an easy way to make him a more compelling character would be to have him act differently depending on which country he's in. He's super harsh because that's what the Khura'inese government wants, right? So when he's not in Khura'in, make him friendly and polite, perhaps even supportive of the defence's efforts to uncover the truth. It'd also make for some fun reactions, like Phoenix in 6-3 thinking "they said he was really chill!" and Apollo in 6-5 thinking "wtf why is he so bloodthirsty now"
WHAT, YOU UPLOADED AND THE YT ALGORITHM WAS HIDING IT FROM ME??? I’m already 23 minutes into the video and I’m laughing a lot. This has me in stitches. I looove to hear you both ramble on about this series. Can’t wait to see more
I have to disagree with your opinion on Ernest Amane. His motivations for obstructing Edgeworth's investigation are perfectly clear- you are trying to arrest *his* *son* . Parent trying to protect their adult child from ending up in jail is nowhere near as unusual as you guys seem to think.
But there is a second and third level to his actions- AA games are written as parodies of *Japanese* judicial system. There is a reason why they have over 90% of conviction rate and it's not because their police are so good at catching criminals. So Ernest as a rich and important businessman *needs* to keep you from arresting Lance so he won't also lose face as the parent of the criminal. He might also be concerned about what Lance knows/will tell police about his illegal activities. So yeah, buying the building where the crime took place and barring police from entering is silly, but I get why he did it.
I love you guys's videos. I'm excited when you'll talk about The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles.
It’ll be a bit, but that’s the next more major project!
Also I liked nahyuta. May I give my reason?
He first comes off as rude, then after we learn a little more it seems like sibling rivalry. When we get near the end it seemed like he was being forced to be a prosecutor out of fear of being executed cause of the DCA
tbh, alba and simon keyes are actually very similar final villains, but unlike alba, simon was executed well.
first, they are both technically masterminds in a sense, but keyes was much more directly involved with the main conflict of the story of aai2 then alba was in aai. albas the mastermind because hes the leader of the smuggling ring but not because he actually does anything. keyes is the mastermind not because of his position but because hes actually doing things.
secondly, their takedowns are similar in the sense that both require you to use logic to take them down, and both cant be taken down by normal means. with alba, its his extraterritorial rights. we already know he committed the murders, but hes immune to being arrested because hes not technically a citizen. yknow until he gets those rights taken away but we still have to keep taking him down for another 5 years. with keyes, we have to prove he actually killed the president’s body double, since we can convict him for anything else he caused, which is a much more interesting conflict to me
third, both seem innocent at first only to then be revealed to be evil. this is done alright with alba but my problem is you dont really get to see alba very much before his turn to the dark side. with keyes, you get all of i2-2 to see his more “normal” personality before he reveals that HE was the circus clown the whole time!
finally, their takedowns are pretty much the entire finale of their respective cases. alba’s takedown takes too long. it took me like 5 hours to finally finish this. there’s like, 6 or 7 cross examinations, 2 investigations, and a bunch of other stuff in between that. with keyes, you get no investigation, and 3 cross examinations, that take at most a couple hours, and them you’re done.
so in conclusion, i just wrote an essay on why simon keyes is better than quercus alba in pretty much every way. i should probably go get a life or something.
oh! and this doesnt have to do with alba or keyes, but gustavia and coachen also have a lot of similarities.
Honestly, facts. Keyes is definitely my favorite villain. Ironically enough, my least and most favorite final villains are from i1 and i2, lol.
Also, they contrast well. Like Alba was an ambassador of a country with a hundred extraterritorial rights and yknow, while Simon is just an ordinary guy working at a circus. I just really like him. But both have banger themes (Simon better)
Simon Keyes >>>>>>>> Old Tree man
But this doesn’t really say how Alba is a worse -character- than Simon.. it says how the story written around that character fell flat versus Simons inclusion.
Both felt sufficiently threatening and I still got that presence from alba even after he lost his rights. Characters often write themselves by having personality, and I felt his actions were spot on for his character all the way through
Kinda surprised that Clay terran from dual destinies didn't make it at least into the honorable mentions, he was another character that only felt like just a plot device, at least to me personally.
(Great video btw)
I kind of agree. He had a full-on character design convincing me that he was going to be another main side character in Apollo's backstory in SOJ-if not in DD given that he...stopped existing afterwards. Literally.
Clay’s backstory is fully developed through Apollo. We see everything that makes him a true significance to everyone he needs to. And how it ABSOLUTELY BROKE Apollo to the point anyone who has any idea what HE is about is worried sick about him. And because 5-4 and 5-5 are so intertwined, we spend that much more time on his focus. Solomon Starbuck muttering “I’ll be fine” over and over again in the new rocket at the end, Yuri Cosmos secret undercover plan with Clay to sneak into the space museum to keep them safe, and his fight with the Phantom.
Manny Coachen effects Ambassador Palaeno and that’s it. No one in the case seems torn up too much and Palaeno even comes to terms with how awful he was in pretty short time span and is then more worried on the effect of his country.
But what truly catapults Clay into a great victim is his conversation with Apollo and how they cheer each other up over the loss of Clay’s mom, followed by Clay coming to Apollo to support him to prevent him from quitting over AJ events. His significance is so much more felt than, “I know how to schedule your day to day.” And to top it off, Apollo focusing on his own lack of mother despite knowing his father is already dead, the absence of any mention of his father is what allowed the writers to make Dhurke for SoJ. And with that in context, Apollo having an eternally optimistic foster father willing to fight for everything ALSO fits.
Clay does not belong even in honorable mentions for this list. We may never see him, but he still felt like a genuinely real person.
I love how the Terran naysayers hate on a character we only know by mention/Apollo's musings. For a guarded, sardonic character, with nothing close to a family to call his own, to have this reaction to someone... It's only with Dhurke after Clay.
We had a similar situation with Greg in the main trilogy. He got his part in Investigations, since he was killed when an adult and already fleshed lawyer. We will never have that with Clay, because he effectively was killed when Apollo was merely a rookie lawyer, and there is not many a way he could be inserted in a flashback case.
Confusing a plot device character with a character in a badly stitched storyline, is a quite amateurish mistake to make.
@@LathropLdST victims are naturally harder to develop than regular in person characters. And you can get the kind of person they were from the perspective of others and how they view them. It’s important that there’s no much conflict in people’s perspectives of them so they can appear to be real people. Manny Coachen has a conflict and divide in character that is lacking in personal development, and they didn’t develop the side that Palaeno trusts so much and that’s why he can be so forgettable. There’s no depth.
Contrastly, there’s Juan Corrida who we understand from the get go was actively antagonistic to Matt Engarde, and vice versa. But no one understood the DEPTHS of how far they took their “rivalry.”
Clay actually gets across EXACTLY what kind of person he was being an incredibly supportive emotional base to those around him that truly loved those he brought close. And all his explored actions demonstrate that. There’s never a conflict in who he was, and more of a bafflement that anyone would kill him at all. Which fits PERFECTLY in Apollo’s arc and how he SPECIFICALLY is broken over his friend’s death. I wish in SoJ you could still see Clay’s jacket somewhere in the office to show that Apollo will never leave his friend behind, but they were covering what happened with Apollo as he slipped through the cracks of the Gramarye storyline and how Dhurke raised him before he proper met and became friends with Clay. (And I hope if we DO see Apollo again in a cameo or a more active case, he does mention Clay.)
5:37 You know your a massive Ace Attorney fan when you know that that's Deid Mann not Kane Bullard 😅
Great video! You guys made some very good points and there wasn't a single character on here who I thought didn't deserve to be, and you argued against them very well. Can't wait to see more content from you guys if you plan to make it!
I find it pretty interesting that I totally agree that Justine Courtney makes the honourable mentions here while Sebastian is probably one of the best ace attorney characters, considering that they serve pretty much the same role in the story. I think that Justine could have been improved with some changes to her earlier behaviour, considering that she's trying to remove the corruption in the P.I.C. from the inside. (This is about to essentially become "how I'd write Justine Courtney lol) Perhaps the player initially sees her as a roadblock because she's attempting to remove Edgeworth's badge for genuinely breaking the law. However, as the case goes on and we learn more about her, you realise that she did that not because Edgeworth himself was a threat, but because she believed him to be morally in the wrong. This realisation should come a bit earlier than it does to make her more bearable. She wants to be just and while she doesn't approve of the PIC's actions, she'll use the power she has to do things she thinks are good, for example keeping Sebastian close as he can provide information on his father. I'm not entirely sure if this was why she stuck with him in the main game, but it would serve Sebastian's arc as well, because Justine had been an adult that treated him nicely and it turns out it was all just a farce that was ultimately because of his father, just like his grades. (Perhaps he figures this out during I2-4?) However i think it would do wonders for her character to have her let up on Edgeworth a bit near the end of I2-2 (i remember like nothing about I2-3 but I'd assume she acts similarly then too) when she figures out who the true killer is. It would make the case drag on slightly less, make the ending more satisfying, and would foreshadow her desire for justice rather than feeding into the PIC's corruption. I love Sebastian's genuine confusion at the end of I2-2 when he realises that Roland is the killer and doesn't know what to do, and Justine deserves a moment like that where she realises and essentially allows Edgeworth to take it from there, any attempts to dissuade him seeming much more like an act than before.
Basically, I'd love foreshadowing that any antagonism towards Edgeworth is through a genuine sense of wanting justice, which she values above all else shown in I2-5 with John's kidnapping, since prior to I2-4 she just seems like a living roadblock.
I also don’t think Turnabout Bigtop is nearly as bad as everyone says it is. It’s way too overheated.
Very glad that Spark Brushel isn't on the list. Aside from his appearance and mannerisms, he's easily one of the best and most helpful people in the entire series.
I kinda like Olivia Aldente due to her animations. I dunno, I just like the way she moves. Makes her fun. Almost like there's a song stuck in her head and she can't help but move to it a bit. We've all been there.
Agree 100%
But, dang, when Grossberg says "It feels like my hemorrhoids are doing the harlen shake" is neat. That is the only hemorrhoid joke exception
What would’ve happened, if the puppet scored?
That is definitely a sentence.
SPOILERS FROM VIDEO PLACEMENTS AND PWVSPL
I kinda understand Espella character now that I have replayed the game. The ending is not about blaming the big villain instead of your ally, as AA likes to do. The culprits are their fathers, this is more about taking out Estella from the spell and showing Eve that they were both loved: it's not about who rang the bell, it's about how to the different ways the go about dealing with the traumatic events events they experienced, and to end the spell in the end, and to make Eve understand that she was affected too
30:29 once again, this is still one of my favorite lines I’ve ever heard
Btw, telling suicidal people they’re being selfish will one make them feel worse, it doesn’t help
@@oddllamasquad9737 yeah we did have to make an apology about a script mistake. The top comment I pinned is that apology. All I can say is if we ever have to broach the subject again, we’ll be more careful.
@@Kaempfdog I didn’t think I’d actually get a response 😭 but thank you both for realising your mistake and improving
The return of the king! It's very good to see a Kaempfdog upload again.
14:45
Something I thought of a couple days ago regarding this sentence.
Ben was likely the one to have bought the engagement ring (as obviously no one else would’ve cared, some may have reacted worse), and obviously, for the shtick, he’d bring Trilo along too.
How do you think the cashier would’ve reacted?
I don’t think the Berry Big Circus moved around too much after the Leon incident at the very least. So my guess is that the locals got VERY used to just occasionally seeing the circus performers in full gear doing their bits in public too. Either that, or the jeweler found his most memorable customer ever and will be numb to weird requests.
Oh I don’t mind that weirdly specific request. Ever had a ventriloquist puppet ask for a wedding ring in full personality for his proposal and never talking to me as the man?
@@Kaempfdog “Oh, just that Max guy trying to find a ring again. Nothing special.”
i actually do like alba and coachen, like this is mostly just AAI1 being my favourite AA game but i genuinely think they have more going for them than people say
love your list can't wait for the next one.
Really sucks 4-2’s reputation is mostly remembered because of a joke played for too long. I actually really like most of the characters featured in that case, namely the kitakis and eldoon, but I also thought alita was a pretty decent villain that I do appreciate more after reading some people defend her *as* a villain. As for Wesley… the only joke I found funny with him was the joke he made in the credits. ‘Wesley Sicko’ was genuinely hilarious to me
Only thing I dislike about the video is saying that Espella's attempted suicide is selfish. I just think it's stigmatising people who have attempted it or have suicide ideation as bad people, when really they're just in a horrible mental state where they (often) dislike themselves, others, and the world. Is it selfish? Uhh maybe if you wanna see it that way? But I mean, let's have some sympathy, you know. Suicidal people can often believe that nobody cares about them, so they don't think that others would really care once they're gone, or they may just dislike living too much to bear it despite the people it effects. To be fair, suicidal thoughts are a difficult thing to understand or comprehend without ever being in that mental state yourself, but I just wouldn't recommend saying it's selfish because I think it misunderstands what kind of perspective suicidal people are going through. Plus, people recovering from suicidal thoughts really don't need to hear more reasons to believe they're bad people, and dislike themselves. Espella is fictional so yeah it's not like she's effected by you saying stuff about her, but I just worry about the stigmatisation of suicide based on people's reactions to media portrayals of it I guess, and the mental health of people who hear media criticisms of suicidal people getting worse. Hope this all makes sense.
Allow me to fill in a blank. It’s the success of the deed that is selfish. Until the line is proper crossed, they can be helped and comforted. And I am not belittling people that have trouble with this. I’ll always be there for a few of my friends that struggle with this. But it’s gotta be said in this blunt way from my perspective because once it’s over, help has been refused, you have cut out any and all support for good, and any pain you had is left with everyone mildly close wondering if there’s anything that could’ve been done or if it was their fault. And there’s always a way out.
Pulling the plug is not apart of this because the doctor is saying there’s no reasonable way to keep them alive any longer without them being in large amounts of pain.
I do think we could’ve used our words more tactfully I won’t deny that. Suicidal thoughts and self-hate, and strong levels of fear are categorized differently than the act itself. It’s never the solution. And there’s always someone somewhere willing to help. In likely places or not.
Our criticism of Espella is that she’s proven to her face that she is not at fault and can really begin the road to recovery. But it’s the fact she takes her innocence as guilt for no reason. From a story perspective that is BLATANTLY flawed. And it muddies a game long story arc.
@@Kaempfdog Definitely agree with that last part. Espella attempting suicide despite being innocent is a strange story decision that doesn't fit the narrative at all. Also agree that you weren't belittling suicide and "pulling the plug" is entirely different.
I still don't believe the act to be selfish though, I think a better word is probably just misguided, but that's my opinion and you can have yours. I guess for me the fact that any help they could be offered or the pain somebody will leave with their significant others is not enough to stop them from committing suicide shows how awful their state of mind is, and that they deserve sympathy after death, not ire or judgement because it's selfish, but again, that's just my perspective and thank you for explaining yours.
You guys are great, glad I discovered you
I’d like to say right now that I personally *love* Spark Brushel for how unique he is. Every other witness is lying in court but like Brushel really doesn’t. Instead of trying to pick out lies, you’re trying to take into account what he’s saying while ignoring his weird design and weird movements. He’s also just a genuinely good guy and I’ve grown to really like him.
The worst part about Nahyuta is that there's another character in the same game that does what the writers seemed to be doing for him, but successfully: Rayfa Padma Khura'in. For starters, she's only 14and is literally a princess, so her naive, immature behaviour is not only reasonable, but it can often be hilarious and even adorable whenever Phoenix hits her with a reality check. Another point is that, unlike Nahyuta, she actually stands up for herself and defies Ga'ran, while he remains thoroughly whipped by her until literally the very end. It's even crazier because I usually HATE spoiled brat characters.
I'm surprised Joan Garrideb isn't even an honorable mention.
People who poor tea on balls are way too funny to be brought up. That animation is superb.
@@Kaempfdog Here a year later because Joan Garrideb is absolutely one of the worst characters in Ace Attorney history and it's not even funny. She takes a real life issue and makes a mockery out of it, aka physical assault and the issues with her marriage. Like, you think Pop Windibanks suicide threats are tone-deaf because they're played for laughs? Joan has the EXACT same issue. Assault is a serious crime and the game doesn't take it seriously in the slightest. In fact, they have two other examples of it played for laughs in the exact same case with Patricia Beate and the husband juror. Except Pat clearly still loves Roly and the juror isn't a major character in the case. Joan is a despicable woman and how she was depicted was incredibly insensitive.
When you mentioned Birdly, I forgot he existed and I'd rather it stay that way but not for a while now ;-;
He's the reason I skip his dialogue while playing PLVSPW. That bard doesn't seem right, cause it sounds like there's a harmonica inside its sound hole or something.
Your points on the worst characters in this list were understandable, and I'm relieved Daryan wasn't included xD I love these 1hr+ aa video essays -- I'm looking forward to your next one!
Johnny smiles had no right being as likeable as he was
I dont think the release placement of SoJ helps nahyuta in hindsight. For Japanese fans he comes right between the two great ace attorney games which have van zieks and (spoilers?) showing how well prosecutors in the series can be handled whereas for us in the west SoJ was the last official release for six years, meaning we have way more time to sit with him before seeing another game and main prosecutor to take attention away. He's still quite lacklustre in SoJ anyway of course but now I think about it he got kinda shafted by the situations around his game
Yeah, the two prosecutors (Spoilers specifically!) in TGAA are probably the most well-written, interesting and likeable (or at least understandable) prosecutors in the AA series so the JP fans had two very good prosecutors to deal with. Though, I replayed SoJ right after playing TGAA and it was pretty obvious how much missed potential there was in Nahyuta's character. It's pretty sad.
@@364-unbirthdays8 the fact that (spoilers) in tgaa 2 achieves such a good arc with so little screen time compared to nahyuta who is only absent from one case in SoJ is really telling of the overall quality of the two games. I love SoJ but tgaa 2 is an entirely different level
@@CMW003 I already liked (Spoilers) in the very first case he appeared in (before he got spoiler'd) but seeing him in the later cases just blew my mind. TGAA2 is actual insanity and probably my favorite AA game to date. I can see how Nahyuta could have easily become a very impactful character if his struggles and his before-after changes were explored or even just hinted at more. The concept of his character is very interesting, after all. I still love SoJ,, but man, I do wish Nahyuta's screentime was a bit more meaningful.
@@364-unbirthdays8 yeah (spoilers) is great from his first appearance but does get way better later. Tbh I'm not entirely sure whether my love of SoJ is just because of apollo because the game does have its flaws, flaws that are painfully obvious when there are games like tgaa 2 there to compare it to
@@364-unbirthdays8 (Spoilers) is arguably worse than Nahyuta. Nahyuta comes out of nowhere with evidence you hadn't found yet. (Spoilers) makes insane leaps in logic, presents circumstantial arguments with circumstantial evidence, at one point literally just commits hearsay wherein they admit to (spoilering) (spoiler) and refuse to answer questions regarding that when it's vital to the case. (Spoiler)s whole case comes down to "The defendant is guilty because I said so."
You're free to like them as a character, but they are an objectively terrible prosecutor.
It's great to see more videos on this channel. I really enjoy all the deep and detailed discussions that you guys do on these videos. I'm really looking forward to the TGAA videos that you mentioned at the end the the video, especially since I have been wondering where those cases would fit on your current list.
As for the list in and of itself, putting in a separate comment for room...
10: Yeah, this is the big one from 2-3, or at least one of two. Moe and Max improve, and while Moe hits lower lows than Trilo gameplay-wise, Trilo's infinitely worse in every other aspect, including how other characters treat him. At least Moe is treated like the past-his-prime joke he is before he gets his act together. I'd also think about having Acro in my own list, if you were going to give any killer from 2 the Disney Princess treatment then I'd give it to Mimi first and I'd rather give it to no one. Treating Acro like a sympathetic murderer is my other big problem with 2-3.
9: Is even worse when you think about how post-AJ (minus 6-2) has treated Trucy like a running Panties joke, it arguably traces back to panty thief Stickler. Otherwise, just a bit character, and an incredibly uncomfortable one...but he does make me laugh sometimes. Which is more than I can say for Hottie for example. Still worth making the list though considering he kinda derailed Trucy.
8: I can't defeat TreeMan, no matter how I contradict his testimony he just objects again
And even though I use basic logic he has another law to get away in the end
I press as much as I can, but when his testimony lacked a contradiction
I was helpless again
I'll press again of course, but this is my plan
I'll keep this geezer in the embassy as long as I can...
7. How do you make a Deid Mann/Kane Bullard character THIS GODDAMN IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT. Coachen basically caused the entire story along with Alba, and his attempted coup was what caused Turnabout Ablaze to occur...how do you make him THAT MUCH of a nothing burger? I think he might top the list of Wasted Potential/Actual Execution ratio, because there's no execution here.
6. Congrats on being the least bad I-3 specific character. I feel like this case in particular drags down Ablaze so heavily because they somehow managed to make a nonfiller third case feel like complete filler, and this is the guy who they could have made into something to tie the case into the rest of the plot of a 4 case game.
5. I'm fine with one note characters, but your note needs to be good. And preferably not just one annoying song over and over again.
4. The biggest problem with I-3 IMO. Another character legitimately ends up worse, but their part in I-3 isn't why it turned out so poorly. Just a complete drag in all ways; the plot, the motive, the crime, the animations, the breakdown, the personality...I feel like I-3 could have survived the Paups we got and even the Ernest we got, although it'd still feel like a filler case with the latter. But I-3 was absolutely DOOMED with the Lance Amano we got.
3. How do you make a character feel more annoying and more like a perfect prosecutor than the 2 prosecutors we faced in the original GAME? Literally all the prosecutors in the original trilogy bring a perfect win record to the table (albeit Godot's cheating his ass off with that claim) and NONE OF THEM feel as broken as Nahyuta in the first 2 cases. And that's just how he acts as an obstacle to you. Sure, he slips up once in case 4, but that doesn't change that as a prosecutor he feels just cheap. Like, meme Edgeworth Updated Autopsy cheap. And then how he acts on top of that? Let it go and move on that many times is something that he is probably also telling himself, but make that more clear from the beginning Capcom writers. You had something here but you blew it with how he emoted and with the bead throwing.
2. What happens if you combine the lack of emoting animations from the nurse girl in I2-4, the skin deep seeming personality of Alita Tiala (this one unintentionally), and put it on the character who's supposed to be I2-4's amnesiac Kate, or Edgeworth in 1-4, or Will Powers in 1-3, or...
1. On one hand, Espella's mostly a nothing burger for the entirety of the game. A damsel in distress to make Maya look like a person with a spotless record, or Princess Peach's castle an impregnable fortress. That's already something that might make the list on its own. Her decision in the finale isn't something that made me hate her or anything on its own, suicide isn't a logical thing, it's an action taken by someone who feels they can go on no longer. Her suicidal depression isn't the problem...it's how the writers gave her an out. Unlike Alba, where the writers messed up by him being able to drag out the case too long, here the writers messed up by flipping the final culprit from who it was building up to for the ENTIRE GAME. The story isn't, she did something bad unintentionally and how to deal with it, it's don't kill yourself because you didn't actually do it. By that logic the person jumping from the tower should be Eva Darklaw, though that wouldn't change the fact that it was an awful story. I'm not sure the answer was having Layton be right though, the crossover already had a ton of Layton's deduction and logic overshadowing Wright, and having him triumph over him in Wright's own wheelhouse might have been too much. Maybe if Espella did actually do it, but Wright got the not guilty because he put enough doubt in Layton's mind or case about whether Eva did it instead.
Honestly, there's no way that Paups should be No. 1 in any list that includes Espella. Paups is an emotional center that failed at her job for one case, whose problems go deeper than that emotional center. Espella is an emotional center for a GAME that failed at her job for the game, and especially for the final case where the biggest problem is the shaky emotional center.
Very little to argue here. This is a great thought process on what we covered.
Acro is spared mention because his secret about Bat matches his anger, and he himself refuses to let anyone give him an inch in the end. He refuses to play victim, he says I’m just a murderer. He himself admitted he thought he’d take himself out for what he did, but couldn’t walk away from Bat. I think the ONLY reason Acro got special treatment is he got his legs destroyed by a Lion saving his brother. That reason and no other.
Moe is spared mention because the way he transforms into a clown who feels he has nothing to offer to turn into the father figure happy to take care of everyone to take Russell’s place in memory of his best friend. (Once the 2nd day of Moe starts, I honestly have little to complain. And I actually really enjoy his presence.)
I won’t deny they both crossed our minds. But they have ENOUGH that works that we can say lower tier, but not worth bringing any lower in a mention.
The puppet marriage part of the video was so funny
can we talk about that the entire Amano plot line could have been so much better if the amusement park was owned by Amano and was part of the smuggling operation and lance wanted to expose that fact via self kidnaping in said park.
Could have made him and his father a lot more interesting and give edgyboy a better reason to be involved
Excited to see you back!
Ya'll need to do more ace attorney content, holy crap this is good
Our next project just entered its next phase of development actually! Don’t have any promises for timelines, but we’ll make every upload count.
THE MUSIC IN THER VERY BEGINNING WHEN YOU PUT THE DISCLAIMER HHHHHHHH (definitely one of my favorite songs)
It’s one of my favorite details in this particular project. And I give kudos to ANYONE that notices it. Queen is my JAM.
I still haven't played any other ace attorney game aside from the OG trilogy, apollo justice and the one we're Athena Cykes first appears.
You should play dual destinies it’s fantastic but unfortunately you won’t be able to play it on the original hardware because it’s 3ds download only which still pisses me off
I've really been enjoying the ranking vids you two make together and am looking forward to the next one regardless of when it will drop. Thanks a lot!
You seem to put so much work into those and voice your opinions well, yet your scripts and delivery come off very entertaining and natural.
Also looking foward to your 'Dark Age of the Law' vid, Kaempfdog.
[23:50] Haha. I somehow could only think of the one character coming up after this transition - and they did. :D (Maybe I've just seen your first ranking too many times already... I like the consistency in your guys' opinions on the series btw. You might say that that is naturally the case, but I'm still pointing it out as something I really enjoy as a viewer.)
[about 36:45, When describing the Layton games' world and characters:] You got two good ones in there in a very brief period of time, huh.
I thought the first one was unintentional at first, but the unassuming to the uninitiated but deliberate pause after the second one completely set me off laughing xD I subsequently rewound and listened to that segment again :D
The Return Of The King
Bro I was dying in so much laughter when you both were talking about the love triangle oh my god.😂
This was a really well done video and I really hope you continue making these videos because they are so well done! Also keep the bloopers lol
Even though the dark age video will be purely me, I anticipate my brother will cameo to correct a blooper. And we will ALWAYS keep the bloopers
@@Kaempfdog That’s great to hear! Hopefully your next video doesn’t take over a year like this one😂 (that’s a joke, I know things take time lol), and I cant wait to see what other pieces of Ace attorney content you have up your sleeve!
@@carterferris07 Apart of me wants to make the promise, but this video was supposed to come out before autumn. So I'll just say we will see what happens.
@@KaempfdogQuality over Quantity!
AWWWW IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS DROP
after 1 year you came back man, keep up the work
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I suppose a similar comparison could be Dahlia Hawthorne. She looks like a sweet and innocent girl, and she very much knows it. She can very easily get people wrapped around her finger to get what she wants (as in 3-1 where she immediately gets Payne and the Judge on her side.)
Her facade only breaks when she’s stripped of her power (as in being proven incorrect or guilty.)
While she may not have acted (or unintentionally acted) as long as Tiala or Paups, she still does it long enough to leave an impression. (Which says a lot given all the screwed up things she’s done.)