Land Rover / Range Rover Relay Vehicle Theft Explained & Sleeping Keyfob Battery Solution
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- In this video we try and explain the basic principles of how some Land Rovers are being stolen using relay theft. We show one clever solution to this problem where the keyfob goes to sleep when no motion of the keyfob is detected.
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I don't think I'm ever going to be able to look at my Land Rover key again and not imagine it saying "Hello, I'm Simon. Let me in."!!
We haven't had any kind of communication from Land Rover in Japan about this. However, as soon as I got wind of the situation in the UK from yourself and others on RUclips, I bought a Faraday box which came with two pouches which are identical to the ones you received! I have one pouch in my caravan to use when I'm out and about touring. The Land Cruiser 300 (soon also the 250 I suppose) as well as the Toyota Hiace van that are the most popular targets for thieves. Car theft is on the rise here too, but nowhere near UK levels, but the way I see it is make it difficult for the thieves now and it will help to stop it becoming an epidemic! Naturally, my spare key is also in the Faraday box and there is enough room in there for me to put two Land Rover fobs, my wallet, the house key (also a wireless thingy) and the garage remote. If nothing else, it has centralised where all my 'necessaries' are tidied up the top of the piano where I'd typically dump things until I bought this box. I'd be very interested in purchasing those 'sleeping-batteries'.
I received this letter from Land Rover for my 2016 Discovery 4 Landmark about 3-months ago. I did send off for the free sleeping batteries, but they never arrived; so I guess they are all gone.
I did buy a pair of the original sleeping battery on Amazon. These are different from the one you sell and they cost just under £100 for the two - these are now in both my keys. They work very well. 👍
Yours are slightly more expensive - BUT - yours have the advantage that when the battery goes flat, you only have to buy a normal (or thin normal) battery at the standard price, instead of having to pay out another £50 for a new sleeping battery.
Expensive, but highly recommended as it's very cheap compared to the cost of your Land Rover.
Oh - just remember they swith off after 3-minutes, so if you are stationary in a car park and then try and start the car, the car will not see the battery until you pick up the key and move it (as i discovered the other day when the car didn't see the key). ☺
Oh - i have not been called in for the security update yet, the letter just said it would be "later this year" and I received the letter in early September.
Hi John thanks for the information…. Especially the tip about being still on car park or waiting to get off the ferry etc
That little voice “Hello Simon…” makes this your best video ever.
Maybe i could be "little Tim" from Tiktok ! Glad you liked it !
@@L663hey we’ll have no upsetting the Tims on this channel please
I think my key will be referred to as ‘Simon’ forthwith.
@@timoliver8940 There is a guy on TikTik that is quite funny
www.tiktok.com/@tinytimsadventure/video/7309875462178606369?lang=en
As far as I'm concerned keyless entry should be banned. Are we getting that lazy to push a button to unlock a vehicle?
Great little gizmo though to combat relay thefts. Glad my rr has only got keyless start and not entry.
Geniously explained!! Very interesting video.
This is a very interesting invention right there, i will order one right away.
When i owned a 16 and 17 my DS i just switched the keyless off (it’s a button press combo) permanently. Saw a video of a bloke doing it on a Disco 4 and it worked on my DS. Very useful as keyless was standard for so i had no choice but to have it. Also, that pouch looks exactly like the ones we bought in Aldi at least 6 years ago 🤔🤔😂😂
just bought one from theyre site great idea for my 2013 evoque thank you
So they took my Discovery 4 in around 45 seconds. Both of my keys were in Faraday pouches. All they did was break the driver side glass, open the door and put something into the OBD2 port, that killed the alarm system and allowed them to start the car and drive away. Perhaps relay theft is becoming a misnoma. Well out of pocket now. Have taken lots of steps to now protect my newish vehicle and some they will not like!
BMW had the same vulnerability. Don't know if it's been fixed. The gadgets used were for sale online, £70 including helpline service if you had a problem 😄.
I think that this is what the Land Rover security update is designed to stop. I will find out when they call mine in - hopefully soon.
Sorry to hear about them stealing your car.. I need to do a video on the start stop button relocate loom that we sell.
The real "genius technology" is a key that you insert and turn to start the car.
What is this wizardry you speak of ?
Or a handle that's stored behind the seat you put in the front of the car to start.
Simon why not simply disable the keyless entry facility as you have shown in another of your excellent videos along with many others to prevent the issue in the first place. Solves the problem I believe. The car then says “ No Simon your not coming in”🙈
Yes this will work but you loose the convenience of keyless entry. With this method you keep keyless entry.
I suspect the "new system" ultra wide band with the time delay wont last long. Based on your explanation after the encryption has been reverse engineered they'll adapt the relay attack to add the extra time their equipment takes. Sleeping batteries though, that's a game changer. Great video as always guys.
If the car sends a challenge message to the key at the speed of radio waves (speed of light), and the key gives its response to it within nanoseconds, the distance from the key to the car can be precisely measured down to tens of centimetres. A relay system extending the possible distance would need to go faster than radio waves can, which is impossible (if you know how, a Nobel prize awaits). Of course, if the encryption is weak (i.e. botched), then the problem will persist.
@@jonathanpaton
That's exactly how contactless card payments work.
It looks for a delay, if there's a delay it suspects relay attack and declined payment.
All car manufacturers could do this.
@@Robert-cu9bm Contactless payments use a random from the terminal which, with other things, are hashed and an authentication code (mac) produced. The card issuer authenticates the mac. There are no timestamps in this respect.
Hence, there are some sophisticated relay attacks on payment cards but as nearly all contactless transactions are online authenticated by the card issuer then there is little benefit for the attacker.
Great video Simon.
Glad you enjoyed it
I work in IT security and I’ve worked closely with Ken Monroe who specialises in testing security on all types of systems (including the Land Rover InConnect app). This is one of the clearest non-technical explanations I have ever seen of keyless & relay attacks. Very entertaining too! Quick q from me, I have a slightly newer L494 (2019) with the newer style square key. Does mine have ultra-wide band or should I get a sleeping battery just in case?
Thanks for the compliment .. apparently the UWB keys have a Land Rover badge in the rear of the keyfob case. They did a phased introduction from 2018 so your car is in a grey area.
I would love to connect with Ken - can you send me a link to his Linkedin ? We work with the police on stolen Land Rovers etc.
Simon made me subscribe 😂😂😂😂
Brilliant explanations thank you
Glad it was helpful - even with my little voice impressions !
@ as others have said- the voices made it for me!
Won’t take long till those criminals crack the delay in time for the UWB. I think the sleeping battery is better. Thanks for the information simon.
Great REPORT.
Thanks..
Nice easy fix.
Nice one simon 👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
Thanks 👍
Hello Simon we are the men in a white coats guess were your going 😊
I just bought the same car in the same colour ❤ They certainly are lush!
What is the battery code for the new version, original is a 2032 (IIRC) meaning 20 mm diameter 3.2 mm thick) but you can also get 2025 and 2016 (2.5 mm 1.6 mm respectively). I guess they are probably using the 2025 which should be readily available to end users so you could hip without batteries if you wanted.
I never knew what the numbers meant so thanks for sharing.
This will work if the key is not moved. But if you are in motion ,they can stay close up to you (in shopping mall as example) and wearing a backpack with a transmitter. Keep that in mind!
Good point but it’s all about making it harder for the thieves
That's why you still keep it in a Faraday pouch. 👍
A motion-detecting battery skin - times are crazy, but if it works, it works! It could well extend battery life too, depending on how efficient the motion detection hardware is. :)
Yes the motion sensing software must have some passive power drain.
The key isn’t reaching out it responds to the car seeking it (think where the big battery is) Relaying pushes the cars ping close enough to the key for it to confirm. Toyota keys can be made dumb with a double click sequence.
Correct explanation 👍
You can also make the Land Rover keys dumb with two clicks
So can my 2017 Jaguar Xj.
Thanks for the clarification.. but i think my explanation still helps people to understand what the system is doing etc.
@@jambom33
The crims also make the keyless feature on your keys redundant by stealing the car.
Awesome
Hello Simon…just back from a storm battered Sidmouth! Now I understood/understand that my 2022 L494 has the upgraded delay system but I do keep the keys in a tin box at night. However during the day when they are in my pocket, maybe there could be a problem. Then…my “ keyless” entry has been disabled or maybe not even fitted so I have to use the key every time. Also…in vulnerable situations, I have my trusty heavy steel steering wheel theft bar with a complex key from 1980 which has nothing electronic about it! I’m surprised that battery sleeve is £100 which seems rather a lot so does that have complex stuff buried inside it? The Faraday pouch is a good idea, my tiny shortbread tin box works perfectly and the bar should make them think it is too much bother but what will the insurance world say when time to renew in April?? Will it be cheaper now???….i suspect not! A nice idea Simon…will JLR send me one though??…I might call in and ask! 😬😄😄😄😄Richard.
Hi Richard - glad to hear you have been away... we too have been away ..still trying to fix the old French house up ! I can have heating or hot water... but not both !
Your car should have the ultrawide band with the time stamp .. that should stop the relay theft... although there are other ways they have now. Its really like a game of cat and mouse. We are still working with the police who use our fleet of cars for training officers to determine a cars true identity !
@@L663 Hello Simon…yes a week away in the 1960 luxury of Sidmouth! It is a very comfortable bubble but feels like I should arrive in a 1959 Rover 95…😃😃😃 I thought you were away again and hope you can resolve the water problems…I suppose an hour in hot bath works but chilly when you get out! Yes I’m fairly certain I have the later security..they told me I did and that it s not keyless may confirrm….I am extremely careful where and when I park it but recently had no choice to go to a place I have not seen for 40 years and it has not improved..it frightened me to death ( best not say where on here though…I just hate Bristol!) . As for thieves….they are always very clever….i doubt anything will beat them for very long. I hope the rn stops…we had tremendous storms on Saturday with a big Emergency call out for reports of a body in the sea but none found. Let’s hope this week improves! Richard🙏🙏🙏😃😃😃😃
That looks like a better design that what I bought from Key Guard. Only problem is, mine dosnt want to wake up sometimes.
You need to disable teenage mode…
@@L663 🤣🤣
Ford Rangers have been delivered until very recently with keyless entry disabled. In the last month I’ve had complete brand new keys from the dealer, free from Ford, with keys that go to sleep and they have activated the system on the vehicle. These are not batteries that are shielded after a short time, such as those in the video, but complete new key fobs and the dealer drills a hole through the centre of the old ones to destroy them. Obviously the physical emergency key, fitted in the fob, are swapped over from the old to new fobs and the new keys must be paired with the car. They took well over eighteen months to sort this, but that is far shorter than JLR’s usual lethargic response to a problem, which has taken them years to solve and made customer’s vehicles prohibitively expensive if not impossible to insure in some areas.
The batteries are a clever solution but clearly if the sleep aspect was in the keyfob itself that would seem a better solution. The batteries are not shielded... the battery circuit cuts the power from the battery to the keyfob.Interesting to know Ford had the issue as it was their invention as i understood it !
IMPORTANT UPDATE - the original "sleeping battery" doesn't last. I am getting a "low battery" warning after just 3-months - and these are £50 each!
So - Simon's solution is the better option as you only pay the £55 once and use a normal battery after that. 👍
All JLR (and every other company with keyless entry) had to do was put a switch on the fob so you can turn it off. Instead, owners have to deal with Byzantine bodges like this.
Extra marks for use of the word Byzantine !
simon will this work in a bmw or mini keyless system Ta
Yes it should work as long as you have the same battery
Cheers mate
I received a Faraday Pouch from Land Rover for my Discovery Sport. I too applied for my 'sleeping batteries' online, but have not heard anything yet.
@@laurenceholdcroft9965 me too - they never arrived. But as I was doing a long cross-European trip I bought a pair. BUT - the sleeping battery only lasted 3-months. Simon’s solution is much better as you only buy once and replace only the standard battery when it goes flat.
But what does the H432 security update do? To say 2019 cars
Was your test valid? don't you have to have the key on your person for the keyless entry to work?
Wouldn’t disabling keyless unlocking (using the 3x lights button + 1x unlock button trick) accomplish the same result without the need for the sleeping battery device?
That would work but you loose the convenience feature - with the sleeping battery device you have the best of both worlds ?
I hear on some vehicles (Evoque) this can cause a serious battery drain!
@@L663 What is the 'inconvenience' of actually pressing the buttons, on the fob that you must have with you anyway !
Good to know about these issues, as thieves are everywhere now and always one step ahead of most folk
@@JimRudman once you get used to it is really handy.
Interested to know what is recommended for the spare key (assuming not normally used)? The same clever solution or just take the battery out and keep separately?
For the spare key ( if not in use either remove the battery or put it in a foil pouch. )
👍❤️❤️🙏🙏
My March 2023 delivered D250 Defender 90 got recalled for the security “upgrade” in July this year - it took a whole day then another two days sorting out what went wrong when the dealership tried to do a 2nd update that bricked the whole car………… I wonder if the security update was just adding that little sleeve over the battery because they needed both fobs to do it……….I’m too chicken to open my fobs to find out!
My L663 (same age as The Stig) was upgraded on my drive by LR Assist, it's a software upgrade. They also did something to the ODB port (not saying what on here). They need both fobs to check they still work afterwards. 😉
The simplest solution would be for manufacturers to ditch keyless entry. Pressing a button is no drama. Getting your car stolen is. Keyless isn’t a game changer for the consumer. Re UWB they thieves will find a way
Some valid points you make.
Great entertainment value Simon. 🤣🤣
09:59 It can’t be like that exactly because that would rely on perfectly synchronised clocks. Changing a battery in a fob would desynchronise.
I guess there are ways around this. The clocks could resync when next to each other. Do a google search for "how does ultra wide band locking work" and you will understand more.
Hey, Powerfulikltd. I have a question. Does Mansory / Brabus attend clients worldwide who wish to fully customise their old big SUVs, like my 2015 LR4 (Land Rover Discovery 4), with their while-n-bells?
I think mansory are normally doing more glitzy rides than an LR4
I think they're doing this by model year, starting with older cars. I guess I'll get sent one for my 2024 Def in about 2027.
Be better for the key manufacturers to build in a sleep routine rather than having a sleep battery.
Yes this what ford do but I think they have the patent
JLR keys already do this on the later models 2018 onwards.
Just fit acoded remote fuel pump relay or a cat 2 transponder immobiliser.
Ask me if you need details
Send me details please - happy to share anything that helps people keep their cars safe.
Volvo have a G-Sensor in the fob ... the whole thing goes to sleep until moved. I guess Ford and maybe others did the same
Yes it makes more sense to have the sensor built into the fob... well done Volva
Hi guys, Would this work for my 60 plate D4 and roughly how much are they selling for. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob - yes this would work for the D4 and these are for sale on our website for £55
www.powerfuluk.com/products/keyfob-battery-sleeper-kit-anti-relay-theft-for-land-rover-remotes?_pos=1&_psq=key998&_ss=e&_v=1.0
It should. The D4 was the first to be fitted with keyless entry
Is it just me that looks at Land Rovers and thinks..... Sod paying that much insurance every year? 🤔😂
That and worrying of your car will still be on your drive in the morning !
A series cylinder head on the bench ?
from his lads classic mini ( there are a few episodes about it )
2:36 Lol Bleating on!! 😂😂😂
Sure Ford probably patented that technology for the key going to sleep so great when Ford owned LR in the noughties but when they sold LR obviously that security feature didn't go with them and stayed with Ford.
Its not JLR technology, it is Bosch. I had my keyless entry turned off from new.
its probably not even Bosch - they probably license it off someone else..
So you only get just the one battery keeper electronic gizmo and the pouch is presumably for the spare key? (Now answered by your website)
There is another company in the Netherlands that makes something similar called the 'sleeping battery' (can't post the url as it will upset youtube, but a google should find it). But the electronic gizmo is built in to their version of the CR2032 cell, which means that when the power is exhausted you have to buy another. They also supply 2 batteries for roughly the same cost as the battery keeper to cover 2 sets of keys, but the downside is that you have to spend a lot more than the cost of a standard CR2032 battery when the time comes to replace it.
EDIT: Just found the battery keeper on your website which you price at a much more wallet friendly £55 rather than the £99 asked by Autotech!
Yes - I guess the solutions go in this order....
Best - Circuit built into the kefob itself ( Ford )
Next best - Circuit built into the battery ( Autotech )
Nearly as good - Add on circuit ( this is not ideal as you are reliant on the 3 component - the Keyfob / the battery / the circuit - but as you say its the cheaper option long term )
As you say the pouch is for your spare key ( or you could just remove the battery )
Boom Boom!! You dont want to know where I keep my key fob is ! ;-) lol
Surprise me - microwave ! ?
@L663 lol Way off 😉
tin-foil underpants 🤣
My name is not Simon. How the hell do I get in my Rangie?
If your landrover stolen
The upside is you no longer have a landrover
No one steals Teslas
It's not the same thing if you deactivate the keyless feature?
Yes but you loose the convenience of keyless entry.
or get a box
Is there anything that would ‘jam’ a discovery 2 key fob?
Disco 2 and 3 don’t transmit continuously
@
I meant interfere or stop someone accessing the immobiliser without a key fob.
So when will insurance companies start insuring Defenders again. Was a nightmare and expensive insuring mine, more so as I am spending a lot of time in Europe.
Defender isn’t even vulnerable either.
@@hughmarcus1 I already have a steering lock and the faraday pouches and I'd be happy to turn off my keyless entry for a cheaper premium.
I ordered 2 sets from you and no new battery??
Yes we cannot ship batteries - the listing description should make this clear - your standard battery will fit.
We got the same letter in August for our 66 reg DS. Requested the sleeping battery, and after the submitting the form, it said delivery will take 6 months. Still waiting..
Yes as a move to make customers happy it did not work really !
Time will tell if they actually arrive. The 6 month wait was certainly a surprise.
RFID bags!!....still you would think that considering how much these cars cost JLR would have gone for the "turn off when not moving feature" for the keys as standard....but maybe Tata have shares in UK insurance companies..lol. And we wonder why the British car industry died death...
Old cars dont seem to have this problem. Its as if old cars are better than new ones or something
Also remember thieves are fussy - they only steal nice new cars with low mileage !
The RFID pouches when new work, but over time or if the key isn't in correctly you can still open keyless vehicle. I am still using the RFID pouch as well, but I place my keys in a RFID box. well away from the front door. I have tried opening my vehicle with my keys inside the RFID box when placed on the car. Car stayed locked, well worth the minor cost investment. Available on Amazon/eBay for example. The plus side, I am terrible losing my keys around the house. now I can find them if I have put them in the box each time. A lot cheaper than the sleeper battery kit.
Hi Simon I've contacted the JLR group i don't think they'll be offering the sleeper batteries as an upgrade
Odd to offer this and then not deliver….
Just disable keyless entry
But then you loose the convenience for f keyless entry
@L663 no biggy just press button on fob it's lazy
The slim battery will be a CR2032. The standard may be a CR3032. First two digits are the thickness..second two the diameter.
The standard battery is a 2032, not a 3032.
too many "hello Simon let me in" for me unfortunately, bye bye!
There are no "hello Simon let me in"... i think you have it all wrong as this would make no sense - the car is not called Simon ?... its "Hello I am Simon let me in"... need to get your hearing tested !
@@L663 "need to get your hearing tested"
Says the man with the wonky eye!
All of these problems could be solved by just going back to using a key.....
Get a flippin microphone
There is an easy solution, just don't drive a wankpanzer?
you are of course correct - people only steal nice cars !
❤😂😂😂😂😂😂😂