Honda CT125 "Speed Run" Stock Engine 13 & 15 Tooth Countershaft Sprocket
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- Опубликовано: 4 дек 2024
- This video is about Honda CT125 "Speed Run" Stock Engine 13 & 15 Tooth Countershaft Sprocket. With all three sprockets now run, look at the results and see which one you would prefer on your CT125 and what terrain you will be riding the most......
Holy crap, your analogy about beans in the pot gave me a laugh 😆 I so needed on this day. Outstanding speed test and break down of the gearing and benefits of changing it up. You've answered A LOT of questions for us all so thanks Okie! Your end product is going to be awesome 👌
Glad you liked the bean in a pot comment.... I'm trying to do what some would like to know before they buy their bike. My very first impressions of the bike where that it just didn't have enough power for the mountain roads. I've lived in Thailand for 7 years and my Honda Wave is the same engine as the CT125 and it has always struggled on the mountain roads. However, the fun factor on this bike is fantastic and even if I can't get better performance out of it in the mountains, I still would buy one. But it could be better.....
@@TeamDNFracing I agree. Going into this purchase knowing what your getting is important to prevent any buyers remorse. Reviews like yours help prospective buyers be better informed, which is a very good thing. I know I'm still wanting one 👍
@@findingneutral After all of this experimenting, I'd still buy another one, which I may get a red one still. The bike is that much fun......
@@TeamDNFracing Cool. Makes me even more confident.
@@findingneutral You won't regret buying one, although.... You might have trouble with the wife about your choirs around the house because you're out riding that damned bike again.... I've gotten it a couple times. Like today while I was trying to install the USB Charger instead of cleaning the swimming pool. Sometimes, you've just got to bite the bullet and bow to the princess that runs the house. Update: Pool done for the day, still got the USB Charger on.... Win Win situation.......
Really interesting narrative with very specific test results. I'm enjoying all your investigations of this bike. Thanks for uploading Eddie.
I'm having fun doing all of this, just a few more items to do and I'll just be doing Adventure Rides.....
I installed a 13 tooth front sprocket on my new CT125. Climbing ability improved noticeably, what surprised me is that my top speed increased from 85km/hr to 100km/hr, counterintuitive I know, had me stumped for a while but I figure being 100kg the 8hp engine didn't have enough power to fully utilise 4th gear whereas a 13t sprocket allows me enough torque to access the higher revs in 4th gear. Perhaps the 14t sprocket is ideal for the average 65 to 70kg Japanese or Thai rider, not heavy westerners like me.
Sadly, you really didn't go 100KPH with it. The speedo is calibrated to the crankshaft sensor and what ever that goes is what the speedometer will tell you. With the smaller countershaft sprocket, it will read faster than you are actually going. Take your cell phone and put your GPS on and it will give you the accurate speed you are traveling. "However" I'd just tell everyone that your bike will do the 100KPH and let it go at that..... A little bragging rights goes a long ways.... thanks for the comment and keep watching the videos, we've got lots more coming......
@@TeamDNFracing I think you are right, I'll test top speed with my GPS soon and still brag to my friends that it can go 100!
@@shockcomadeath3525 You bet, that's the way to do it and if they don't believe you, don't do a drag race with them, just let them take your bike down the road a bit.... Impress them and then sell them your extra 13T countershaft sprocket..... I can tell you that your ABS light will give you fits with the 13T sprocket on there and the way we handled that was to go to a 42T rear sprocket, we very seldom get the flashing ABS light now. You can get a 42T rear sprocket for a Honda Wave 125i, it is the same bolt pattern and works great, because you can get any size of teeth that you want with it. The 42T is what all three of us run on our CT's and little to no issue with the ABS light... Same ratio as the 13/39 and the 14/42.....
Thanks for taking the time to do these videos and I am with a couple of other people wandering what the spedo is really reading with the new gears on it. Just from this video that the big bore and 15tooth may be the way as long as you are not doing dirt. The change does not take that long so it is very possible to change the front sprocket as needed and based on the riding being done that day. Dealer here still has no idea when they will show up here in the US. Even told me last night it may be as late as mid Jan. I'll have to keep living vicariously through your videos. Great job.
It took me 3 months to get my bike, the waiting was the worse, but once you get it, you'll love it.....
Great video! Looking forward to the big bore tests. Really helps me understand things better for the riding I will be doing!
Thanks for all your efforts on a very informative video!
You are very welcome. Should have the Big Bore kit on within two weeks and doing some rides on it before testing.......
I hate to rain on your parade but... The speedo sensor is located on the counter shaft, so a change of gearing or diameter of the rear tyre will uncalibrate the speedo. A 13T will make it read faster, a 15T will make it read slower and a 3.00-17 Shinko tyre will make it read slower. What was Honda thinking? Obviously they don't want you changing anything! Joe-Retired motorcycle racer and mechanic.
You're right and the sensor also messes with the ABS. We've found that if you leave the 14T countershaft sprocket on there it doesn't mess with the ABS as often or if any at all. However a quick reset is to stop the bike, shut it off for a few seconds and restart it. The ABS light will quit blinking and back to normal which means your ABS is now working again. Like you said, I don't know why Honda did the things they did, but with a gearing change (42T rear), the bike does have more low end snap and is much better at climbing inclines. Thanks for watching my video and check out some more of them. We've done a lot of experimenting with the Honda CT125 to optimize its true potential. You should see how mine runs now...... Thanks for the comment, this video is from a long time ago......
Im fine with the stock gearing
I plan to take mine off road as much as possible so will swap out the stock tires to Vee Rubber VRM022, take the stock front fender off and get a high mounted shorty fitted, the back fender I will remove and fit some sort of tail fender and see if the new CRF300L tail tidy will fit
It's almost as much fun doing the modifications as it is riding the bike after you've done them..... Have fun and be safe out there........
Vety well done.
There is no substitute for objective testing.
looking foward to the big bore kit.
In 1975 my brother aquired a retired honda road racer with a benly 125cc twin. The bloody thing would routinly run up to 14000 rpm. He stuck the engine in a street legal frame and used it on the road. It would easilly top 75 mph and it was reliable, yep hsrd to belive.
Honda knows how to make free reving engines.
Thanks for the Video
Keep watching, next up is the Big Bore episodes......
You can also add on taller tires.
Might not increase top speed much, but more rubber on the road.
I'm a short fat guy, I need those little 17 inch tires....... 🏍🏍🛵🛵
@@TeamDNFracing
Same size wheels, just tires with thicker tread, etc.
Adds maybe one inch.
very cool
im building a 1977 c110 trail for my wife..refresh her riding skills.
plus have a ride buddy
Having a ride buddy that you don't have to call on the phone and set up an appointed time to ride is a bonus.......
Good comparison, and did exactly what you and I both expected. It's a "compromise" bike and you know what they say about compromise, "it's the worst of both worlds." This is neither an enduro dirt bike nor a highway bike. It's only made for trail riding (called the Trail 125 in the US) and commuter/suburban/city riding. It will never be a "best of both worlds" bike until it gets an engine capable of top speeds of 70-75 mph, cruising all day at 65 mph, and able to hold 55 on the hills. When the engine is big enough for that (probably 200cc-250cc), it will have enough power for any hill off-road without the dual-range tranny. But it will never be an enduro bike, capable of very fast speeds on extremely rough ground and going off jumps. It just doesn't have the geometry to be anything but a trail bike. I've owned 6 of the CT90/110 and ended up getting rid of each one as I tired of the limited capabilities. The 125cc was not enough of an upgrade to the old/slow bikes to make this any different from the CT90/110 capabilities, and even losing some capability with the loss of the dual range. I can't wait to get mine, but I think (prediction time) this will be a short-lived run in the US as we tire of the compromise and sales drop off quickly once the initial surge of yuppies get one to re-live their youth, just like the VW beetle did (and now dead). Can't wait to see your cc upgrade. I did a 125cc to 150cc upgrade on my Honda XL125. It didn't really do much that was noticeable.
What makes this bike one that just may last a long time on the market is that it is an extremely fun bike to ride. It is really good for commuting in high traffic, slow speed areas like here in Asia, but can also go into the country side to remote areas. Granted it is not the best off road, but is more capable than todays scooters being offered to the Asian market. Honda didn't put this bike out for the Western markets, it put this bike out for the Asian and Australian markets. I hope it is a long lived machine, only time will tell. Great comment by the way, keep them coming.......
I love the look of the bike and the utility of it. I am fascinated by your experiments however I don't think I will be going down the big-bore road. It's a tad more Frankensteinian than I can handle. Regardless a big-bore Stateside is gonna be a bit more than $30 for labor as in Thailand. The bike is a classic. Your information is very helpful...a great way to pass the winter while waiting for mine to arrive!
The main reason I'm doing the Big Bore kit is so guys in the States, the UK, Europe and Australia can see what it will do for the bike and if they want to go that route, this is what I've found out about doing it. I feel for the terrain I'll be riding in, the bike needs a little more power, so I'll be keeping the Big Bore kit on it but I'm pretty sure I'll be running the 14 tooth sprocket. After I do that, I may or may not put suspension on it. I feel the way it is now is pretty good for a trail bike......
You must be a retired military livening thire
No, but my best friend in the world is and he gives me some old military T-shirts when he comes to visit here in Thailand. I worked for an oil company after being a mechanic for 15 years....
Hi Retired Okie. Thanks for posting these videos about the Honda CT Hunter Cub, really interesting stuff! I would like to mention that on most modern motorbikes the speed is measured electronically from the gearbox. (I however dont know if this goes for then CT Hunter Cub of course, it could also be measured at the front wheel but I kinda doubt it...) This means that if you change the sprocket size the speed measured on the speedo will be quite off. I have tried that on different bikes like the Honda Crf250L and a Yamaha Tenere 660. If you want the correct speed with different sprocket sizes you will need a GPS with speed measurement (almost all modern cellphones have GPS build in, just download some free map applications)
The same with this little guy. Not the most accurate, but it will have to do for now...... With the Big Bore kit, I'm testing it the exact same way, so no variation between the two.....
@@TeamDNFracing You can have a look at this Aussie bloke trying out top speed with a 13 teeth front sprocket on a CT Hunter and a GPS. At top speed 91 km/h (GPS speed) the speedo says approx 15 km/h more. Thats how off the speedo will be with different front sprocket size...ruclips.net/video/JGIQC_ekMGo/видео.html
That was fun. So big bore pushing the 15. Yes please :)
After we get the Big Bore kit installed, I'll be doing some heat cycles on it before taking it for a cruise type run and then a short Adventure ride before twisting it open on Speed Runs. Should be interesting to see if it will pull the 15 tooth sprocket to its max. My guess, it will run out 110 Kilometers or more. I'll probably run the 14 tooth with the BB kit permanently. The 13 should be able to lift the front tire with the BB kit. Could be fun......
I really like the 15 tooth. I’m 250 lbs, but I ride on fairly level rural roads and no serious off roading other than some dirt roads and light trails. My average speed is 40 mph and this is much nicer without the buzz. I may have lost 2-3 mph on top end, but well worth the trade off.
Thank you for the effort. Good tests. My guess is that that big bore kit will pull with 15 toooth.
I'm thinking it will also, maybe Honda should have stuck a 175cc engine in this frame.......
Thanks for this video Eddie , standard gearing for me , if and when i get one ,
Ride safe .
I believe the standard 14 tooth countershaft sprocket is the best all around setup. It feels the best and is pretty smooth riding with not so much engine breaking when you let off the gas as is with the 13 tooth......
I'm building up my 21 Monkey a bit as well. Just installed the chimera polished short ram intake a Takegawa exhaust and I'm waiting on my reflashed ECU. May I recommend Camron Jones Racing for you mandatory reflashed ECU. Very inexpensive quick turn around.
Well done will be looking forward to the next videos with the upgrades ! In the end What was the max speed with a 15 sprocket??
It would not pull any higher speed than 95 KPH, just not enough ponies.......
(59mph) 🙂
Thanks for all your videos! I’m first on my dealers list here in Florida, but you’re saving me a lot of time not having to go duplicate your testing when mine finally arrives. I’m wondering what the top speed is on the 13 and 14 tooth options? Sounds like the 15 is limited by power so no top end without the big bore and exhaust. Any chance you have those top speeds?
Also will you be able to test with just the exhaust, then exhaust and big bore? Thanks again!
I don't have the top speeds, but I can tell you they are less than 60MPH for a constant cruising speed. Not good enough for hi ways in the US or EU....... I didn't think about doing any runs with just the pipe, but that may be a good idea for those who just want the engine stock but would put a pipe on it. I might just do that......
When are they saying your Bike will be in Tom? I’m first in line with a dealer in KS and their paperwork is still saying mid-February... not ideal riding month in the Midwest 🤣. Can’t wait though....
@@mattp9029 no indication of delivery time from my dealer yet.
Perhaps there is still improvements to be made by gaining a tooth or two in the rear sprocket? It wouldn’t be as significant as the front sprocket, but would also provide the opportunity to get a lighter weight rear sprocket. Not sure if that’s more economical/timely than just big boring it of course
Sprockets are a quick fix to a problem that you can't fix with sprockets. There is no doubt, this little engine lacks power on steep grades. Sprockets may let you go up the grade, but at a snails pace and with the engine revving out often, way to often. The Big Bore kit I'm getting is a new cylinder, new piston, new rings, new piston pin and clips, base gasket, head gasket, new fuel injector and every thing is proven already on Honda 125cc engines. It should come very close to solving the lack of power for this bike. The reliability should also be there with all the parts being new and designed to work on this engine. If it doesn't, I can always put the stock stuff back on....
You might want to use a GPS for testing the spockets. Not sure where the speed sensor is located?
It's located on the countershaft so the speedo reading on the 13 and 15 are off. Not by much, but they are off. I now have GPS on my phone and I will be retesting speeds on all three sprockets. Thanks for the heads up......
I had a 72 CT90 with the high low. Lol in low range, by the time you were in 4th it was rapped out at 30 mph. But it had pull in 1st.
I get the same feeling with the 13 tooth sprocket on it and I don't like that it rev's out so much.....
Great video. Sounds like sticking with the stock sprocket is the way to go for all around performance off-road and on road. Did you happen to do a top speed run on the 13 tooth vs 14 tooth?
I'm going to shy away from the top speed runs as you need a really long straight section of road with no traffic on them. Hard to find here in Northern Thailand.......
@@TeamDNFracing That actually sounds wonderful. You live in the perfect place for one of these great little bikes.
@@TylerkJackson9 I keep telling everyone the "Fun Factor" on this bike is through the roof. It handles decent, has usable power for the Thai roadways, not to shabby off road, it just struggles on the mountain roads.....
@@TeamDNFracing You could do a top speed run for a set time. If you are hitting 80 kph in 12-20 seconds, give it 30 or 45 seconds, or one minute if you have enough road, and call that "top speed." We really don't want to know if can get to 110 kph but it took it 15 minutes to get there. We just want "useable" top speed.
Hi mate, nice going on the tests! Where did you get your 15T sprocket from?
"It's not a race bike, it's a trail bike." Exactly. So which sprocket works be on the trails & hills?
Went on another Adventure ride yesterday and now I can answer that question. If you just want to use the bike like it seems to have been built for, which is a trail bike that you can ride to and from the trails and speed on the road is not important, but trail riding ability is, then put on the 13 tooth and have a blast. If you want to commute and ride roads more often, stay with the 14 tooth. If you are riding Adventure rides in mountainous areas, the 13 tooth allowed me to climb some of the steepest mountain roads yesterday in 2nd gear. I lost some top speed and the motor was revving higher than I'd like, but it performed really good in the steeper roads than the stock 14 did.... Thanks for your comment. It is taking time to run all the options available for us on this bike.......
I am wondering if you might like a Yamaha TW200 better. I like the Honda CT125, but the TW200 definitely has more power and speed. But let us know how things work out with the modifications.
Getting ready to do a video on my modifications today. I've still got to edit our latest Adventure Ride as it proves some of the stuff for the mountain roads that the speed runs proved.... The only problem is, I have to mow the lawn first.....
Where did you get your front rack over the headlight? Can you post link below video for everyone ? In USA WE JUST GET THE RED BIKE ONLY... IN 2021. Lol. But I am prepping to get all items I need to go with it in advance. Thank you my friend!
All three of my racks came from "The Cub House" here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Look it up on line, not sure if they ship to the US or not though. They are very sturdy and light weight compared to others on the market, I'm happy with them.....
Many owners complain about this bikes speed. I didn’t buy this bike for the speed. I bought it for how well it handles on trails. Good gas mileage. Versatility of cargo etc. not a fat bike. I’m over 60 and don’t need speed anymore. I enjoy the scenery more at 40 mph or less
Well David, I did this video back when there were me and one other guy in Australia who did English speaking videos on the Honda CT125. It's amazing how many of the future CT125 owners wanted to know how fast this bike was, so I did some speed runs with different gearing. No matter how you pushed the stock CT125, it would not go 60MPH unless it was going downhill. For me, I ride the bike because it is a blast to ride, I really like zipping around the countryside here in Thailand and very seldom do I get over 40MPH on it. This bike is all about the fun factor and for those of us in our Senior years, 40MPH is plenty fast enough...... Thanks for the comment....
Another good video. I was curious as to what your findings were on top end speed with the 13 vs 14? Sounds like the 13 was better for heavier loads or hills (I'm a bigger guy), but wanted to make sure it didn't hurt top cruising speed. Also any warranty issues by switching it out??
I ran out of straight road closing in on 100KPH, not something I wanted to push.... If I were a bigger guy, I'd buy the 13 tooth and try it myself to see if it is what you want. I can tell you that the little engine livens up but it does rev out quicker and a lot of it depends on what type of riding you are going to do. No more expensive than the 13 tooth sprocket is, I believe anyone who feels that lack of snap or pull with the stock 14 should try it themselves to see if that is what they really want. I'm staying with the 14 tooth for now, more test to do before I make any permanent changes......
Wow. Check out - Honda CT125 Asian CT125 on You Tube. That guy takes his CT up some steep little mounds. Fun to watch.
These little bikes really are amazing ......
@@TeamDNFracing Heck yeah they are.
Thanks for the vids Okie. IMPORTANT QUESTION : I am about to get my Honda 2021 trail 125. Do you think the battery and electrical system is strong enough for heated grips and Denali D4 lights (2 lights)?
I'm not real sure, ask your dealer, they should know. However, I've seen a pair of Baja lights on one and they had no problem running them. Not sure if putting heated grips on with them also will over load. My suggestion is to ask your dealer. Hope this helps......
Would 5 gears 125 have different results since there is a 5th gear
A five speed gear box would have been great in this bike. Only one problem, the bike has a power issue with being able to pull 4th gear in the stock form, even with our BBK installed, it doesn't want to go much faster even with a higher gear ratio with a 15T front sprocket. It wants to pull it, but not a lot higher on the KPH. I can get 105 out of mine with the 14T front and the 42T rear, but it really doesn't have much more left in it. The engine really needs more HP to get the speed up. Although, it would be nice to have a 5 speed with a lower first gear..........
Hey, 74 Fumo has some really cool single track videos. Looks like Thailand maybe? Just sharing.
Looked like Thailand to me also, they were talking Thai, so yep.... Not a real fan of going through that tall of grass, but all of them seemed to be having fun.......
@@TeamDNFracing Yeah, I too will pass in the face slap grass. Was interesting watching the bike traverse the rough stuff. As soon as I heard the center stand hitting stuff I thought about you since you already addresses that problem.
@@findingneutral I just put on my new exhaust system and I've got the 13 tooth countershaft sprocket on it. It pulls much better now and with no problems carrying up steep mountain roads in second gear. Still don't like it revving out so much, so I'll be testing it with the 14 tooth as soon as my intake system shows up......
@@TeamDNFracing Sounds awesome 👌
Truthfully Eddie, the bike is best at factory gearing, if you want a track bike or a trail/enduro bike maybe you should have got one of them
I don't want a track bike or an enduro bike, I want this bike and I want it to go up the mountain roads better...... I believe it is a great little bike, it just needs more Horsepower and Torque. Both of which I can get with a Big Bore kit. The sprocket changes did not really surprise me as I felt the stock 14 would be good for both on and off road. If I was in an area that was flat and the traffic wasn't going over 80 KPH, then I'd put the 15 tooth on as it really smooths out the little engines power. If I were going to ride mainly in the dirt, then I'd consider the 13 tooth sprocket as it does give the bike some snap and a better ability to climb steeper sections. It just revs out to quick, but that isn't a deal breaker. The stock sprocket is the best of both worlds. That is what this proves.....
This engine is capable of 110 kph with stock 14 inch sprocket. The problem is the catalytic converter that restricts the exhaust. That is what is restricting HP output.
No, the catalytic converter is not holding it back. We've taken a stock Gen 1 engined CT and pulled the stock pipe off and installed a good power pipe and gained no more KPH on it. We did not get above 110 KPH until after we installed the BBK, installed a HiSpeed race head, installed a hot camshaft, opened up the entire air system and installed an ECU that can be reprogrammed. Now my bike will hit 120 KPH and it still has more throttle left. However, here in Thailand, we don't really care about going that fast on the bike as much as getting the low end torque to go up the mountain roads and trails in the Chiang Mai Province. I just did the sprocket comparisons because people were asking about what changing sprockets would do for the bike. What we settled on for our type of riding here, was installing a 42T rear sprocket on and leaving the stock 14T on the countershaft. Thanks for the comment, but we've already eliminated the Catalytic Converter as the culprit.... The ECU has more to do with the power curve of the engine than anything else......
@@TeamDNFracing Thanks for the info. Did you try disconnecting the O2 sensor to see if the stock ECU goes open circuit (full rich as if on a cold start)? Or does it die if O2 is disconnected?
@@ShahryarSaigol The stock ECU is programmed at the factory to Honda specs and is not reprogrammable. Disconnecting the O2 sensor will just make the bike run crappy as it does need to be part of the tuning process. That is why we did what we did to the Throttle valve to allow more air into the engine. I know you'd like to be able to make this engine kick some rear end, but without changing the items I told you about, you won't get any better performance out of the bike. I really thought changing the stock pipe out for a better exhaust system would add to the power, but the increase was so small, I knew I was going to have to doing the changes I did to gain enough HP over stock to get the bike to perform. What we've done to the three Gen 1 bikes we have, is amazing between our mods and a stock engine.... I'd not buy the Gen 2 bike because of the limits to making the engine perform.....
The shame of it is that Honda did not put the two speed speed selector on the transmission as the original 90s had for 20 years
I would gladly had paid $500 more if Honda had only done this
I heard someone here in the states talking about that big bore model on a super cub but here he's looking to spend something like $3K.
I'm looking at $400 US for the air intake system, 142cc Big Bore Kit and full exhaust system. Sadly, the exhaust system costs more than the air intake and Big Bore kit together.......
I respect your diligence producing this video but, sorry, it's unnecessarily long.
Bottom line is, leave the factory sprocket as is, there's a reason Honda engineers went with a 14T.
Still, put in a 13T for a day of fun on the dirt track or a 15T if you want to lower the bike's top speed RPMs for long-distance riding (e.g. less vibrations overall, especially from the handlebars).
Ride on, safely 🫡👍
These runs weren't for me to see what gearing I wanted on the bike. They were for all the people out there that wanted to know what a 13T or a 15T sprocket did for the little bike. Ever since I've gotten the bike, I've complained that Honda should have and could have made this engine a bit more peppy and why they didn't is beyond me. I've proven what this bike can do by modifying the engine with proven components and with over 10,000 Kilometers on those updates. My bike will run up near 120 KPH with the mods and cruise easily at 90 KPH in the mountains North of Chiang Mai, Thailand. My early videos on the CT were in response to people wanting to know what they can do to their bikes to be able to run faster, climb steeper and keep the reliability. We now have three Gen 1 bikes with the 143cc BBK, ported heads, ECU re-mapped with complete exhaust systems that actually make the engine perform. All of this was done one step at a time. We've had multiple subscribers from around the world come to Chiang Mai just to ride my bike with us. Everyone of them leave with a different appreciation of what Honda could have done with the engine. However, with them going to the Gen 2 engine, there just aren't enough of them out there for the hop-up shops to have modified these engines and tested for reliability. Besides the three Gen 1 bikes, we now have two Gen 2 bikes in our group. Both of them have been modified with the 42T rear sprocket to give them a bit more spunk. There are reasons why we didn't go with a different countershaft sprocket, we tried, but Honda doesn't want people playing around with the gearing so they've done things that keep you from changing countershaft sprockets. However, the rear wheel assembly is the same as what is on the Gen 1 bike so changing the rear sprocket is a piece of cake. Funny how no one in the US is talking about changing sprockets to maximize the power of the Gen 2 bike.