My dad went to Northern Ireland saw horrific things. He was in east Anglian regiment I believe during late 70s issued the L1A1 SLR then the sterling SMG.
I remember the later "flak jacket" (with rubber shoulder pads for shouldering the rifle) which I was issued at the Hythe And Lydd "walkaround" range. The range where you patrol the streets reacting to fire and pop-up targets using live rounds. Cars and mannequins in the street. Had bullet holes in the back of it. That REALLY creeped me out...
So why was the right hand ammo pouch worn on the left? And how was the S6 haversack worn on the belt? If I’m correct it didn’t have belt loops or the pins that all other 58 pattern pouches use
Good questions, on the first one, no idea to be honest. On the second, the respirator haversack isn't on the belt, it's carried on the shoulder strap which is under the body armour.
@@RiflemanMoore I have another question for you, I’ve been trying to source a pair of 68 pattern trousers in my size and finding originals is impossible. However I found a website that makes reproductions but they’re saying to measure around the navel (belly button) to get the correct waist size. Are the trousers meant to be worn so high or are they supposed to sit lower around the hips like a regular pair of trousers or jeans?
Very nice man, I alot of guys left their flakvest open (unzipped) and some even just dumped them due to interference with Landrovers and Shorts shorelands. (The shorelands is more UDR but they did support some Army checkpoints and base security. ROI cards and other such things would be carried but i'm unsure of how hard they are to find outside of NI. Last main fair over here I picked up my Second OP Banner Aide Memoir and another original UDR cap badge.
Thanks for the info! Yeah the ROI cards are difficult to find, originals anyway, there was a chap reproducing them on eBay a while ago but they don't appear to be available now.
I will do at some point though at present I don't have the kit to do 'one man's kit' in terms of rations and all the small kit carried in the field but I can take a look at the uniform.
When did the ‘high Leg’ D.M.S. Boots and the Leather ‘Northern Ireland’ Gloves (with the padded Knuckle strip) come into service? Also ‘Lightweights’ Plain green trousers with a single thigh pocket (‘Map Pocket’) were often worn back then.
The standard issue Boots, Combat, High were trialled in the early '80s and began to appear more generally in the mid '80s. Prior to this Boots, Urban Patrol were issued in Northern Ireland, these were high leg boots designed specifically for pavement pounding, I believe these appeared in the mid '70s. Similarly with the gloves, the initial pattern which also had padded backs to the fingers appeared in the early to mid '70s followed by the type you describe with just the knuckle pad in the late '70s, early '80s. Sorry I can't be more specific with dates off the cuff. I'll be wearing lightweights if and when I do a mid '70s video. I didn't wear them for this as most of the photos I've found from the early '70s in Northern Ireland, including those from which the uniform I'm wearing is copied, show combat trousers being worn rather than lightweights. I'd concluded lightweights came into more general use in Northern Ireland around the mid '70s?
@@peepresc8002 I remember my dad telling me this as well. He wore the solid colour trousers and Doc Martens. He served as a sapper in the mid to late 70's I think he left in 79.
Could you please do a video of every item that would go into a small pack during 44-45. Also for a big pack. Please show if you could how do you correctly put on all the straps for the big pack.
I work with a guy who served in the mid 80's. He said the soldiers were livid at having to hand in their SLR's for the SA-80. (The early SA-80's had teething problems)
Yes, the early L85 was dogged with many issues regarding reliability. It's been fixed but the weapon still hasn't shaken the bad reputation it deservedly gained early on.
Cheers RM, Ah look... 1960's pattern cardboard boots....We used to trade our 'Grebe Kodiak' boots to you poor squaddies when you came over to BATUS after touring Ulster... for your excellent battle smocks and '58' webbing, which were way better than ours. Great Posts all round.
Thanks for the kind words, glad you've enjoyed the videos. I agree the DMS boots are a sad chapter in the history of British procurement which is, unfortunately, mired by other examples of the same.
About how much do the 60 Pattern and 60 Pattern in DPM usually go for on average? I have the "type II 68 Pattern", the one with squared pockets. I'm basically geared for late 70s-early 80s for Op Banner but want to do 1969-72/73.
As with a lot of things it depends on size, in a decent size I've seen the smocks go for up to around £70 and the trousers around £50. That's creeping up as time goes on too, as they say they aren't making any more of them...
This time we both be enthousiastic about a piece of equipment: the FAL rifle. I really loved shooting that thing. Also great for knocking out teeth with the butt. And in the early 90 iets, we had the same style underwear. We called them shelter halfs. :-) Nice vid. How do you get all that equipment? Including the rifles?
The rifle in this instance is borrowed from a friend but we can buy deactivated weapons fairly easily over here, I've picked some of mine up online and others at shows. Fantastic rifle as you say.
Couple questions that may be beyond scope of video: you stated a spare magazine was carried, does this mean only 2 were ever carried or did this vary based on operational requirements such as in rural patrols? Also, were there any guidelines on how riot/baton guns were issued or was this done as required at unit level? Have never been able to find anything about this, hoping you or others visiting site may know. Many thanks for a another informative video.
Glad you enjoyed the video, the number of magazines and the amount of ammunition carried would vary depending on the type of duties being undertaken. As for the baton gun I will have to leave others to comment on that, not something I have any documentation on.
Thanks for such a quick response to my question. Something else came to mind regarding what I've seen referred to as "Doc Marten" boots being worn. I take it these were commercial high-top boots worn in place of DMS boots and puttees. Any idea of when these became used (sometime in mid 70s from what I gather) and were they approved for use or just another unofficial uniform modification that was tolerated?
There was the urban patrol boot which was an issue boot of light weight high leg construction with a relatively oft sole to give good grip on pavements, they wore out very quickly and as you say they were around from the mid '70s. Some men also wore privately purchased Doc Martens in place of DMS for the same purpose, they were tacitly tolerated by some units and not others from my understanding.
When it comes to kit and especially ammo, one has to take into account the 'Buckshee' stores. The unofficial stuff soldiers bought themselves or Pay Sgts arranged as extra. All companies kept a grab bag of extra ammo (especially baton rounds) for when things went sideways. Lots of reference to QMs running the gauntlet in land rovers chucking out loose rounds collected from range days. Sometimes in heroic quantities. I was told the Baton gun was specifically designed not to fit the US 40mm grenades, people were concerned that if it could, someone would. We were issued M79s down on the border to deal with armoured dumper trucks. I've known 66mm LAWs taken to the border, and later in the SA80 days we were given an unknown rifle grenade of dubious manufacture, blue in colour, for which we received neither training or sights. Would have made for an interesting afternoon. These seemed to be semi-official, Battalion issue and kept out of sight. In the 7.62mm days two half full mags were normal in town. In the cuds it was open season and we carried what we though we might need. The pair of 10 round mags were to hinder any plans to go loco and hose down a cul-de-sac. In the Cuds we normally carried 100 rounds a man, plus belt for the GPMG. Later in the 5.56mm days, the lethality and wall penetrating power of the round reduced and we would routinely carry 25 round mags. Then again we couldn't stop cars with them either. When deployed as brigade reserve we would switch between urban and rural, quite often without a chance to replen. You couldn't leave ammo and M79s unsecured in a bergan lying in a UDR base so you just made do and took them with you. GPMGs went under the ops room desk and the gunners given a signallers SLR. He'd be out there with a magazine fed weapon and still be running around with jingly link in his pouches. If you were unlucky you got a cooks SMG, but of course the mags didn't fit the webbing and the cooks had long since debombed them. Ive done a patrol with armed with single SMG mag holding a couple of 9mm swiped from a pistol and 100 rounds of 7.62 belt in my pouches. Where the News cameras might be (Belfast, Derry, and then only the bits you've heard of - never saw a journalist in the Ardoyne) the uniform was fairly well regulated. But out in the cuds it was a veritable fashion show of irregular kit. Soon became a showy, pride off thing and was routinely spoken out against, but never enforced. Army kit in the 70s and 80s was for the first time lagging behind civvy mountaineering gear. I had dark blue gaiters, dark blue Helly Hansens, a lovely lime green gortex waterproof, Ive gone tactical in hunter wellies, which is warm but smelly. Officers and Regimental funds used to help us acquire this kit, I remember a truck load of Gortex Dana boots turning up once, cause our assault boots had turned to cardboard. No one asked where they came from, nothing was signed for. Still have mine in the closet, I used them for ten years on the beat in winter till they became racing slicks.
I don't know how it was for the Army, but in the Royal Marines the puttees were lower down on the boot and the tape was secured on the outside of the puttee and not the inside as you have shown. Again I don't know about the Army, but the boots we had (73 -79) were really comfy once they were broken in and lasted ages if they were looked after properly. (hope I'm not nit picking to much) We also wore our own smocks and had elastic bands to keep the bottom of the trouser leg on the outside of the puttee as it looked much better that wrapping the trouser leg inside the puttee.
The puttees are something I've been advised on since doing this video by an Army veteran, as you say securing them on the outside just behind the end so that any excess tape can be tucked away under it, now I know! Just above the fifth eyelet seems to be a common height to have them wound around in Army use going by period photographs. Were you issued standard DMS boots during your service? I understand earlier manufacture were of better quality and it was as the '70s wore on and into the early '80s that manufacture began to drop off with cheaper and cheaper materials, including fibre board for the insole etc. Not too much nit picking at all, thanks for the comment!
We were issued a standard pair of DMS boots and a pair of Parade boots (which incidentally were also comfy once worn in and again lasted even longer if looked after properly (although we didn't wear them all that much)) If memory serves me right, my first pair of DMS boots lasted nearly two years (next couple of pairs lasted just as long) and the Parade boots lasted nearly four years (didn't wear them much), while my shoes were the only pair I was issued with throughout my six and a half years. Either we were given better quality footwear, or we just looked after them better, as most of the guys had their boots and shoes for about the same length of time as I did. With regards to how the puttees were worn, it could be a case of we just did things slightly different to the Army, but I think we all agreed, they did do a great job in protecting your ankles when going over rough terrain (if you did them up properly). I also think the insole was like a nylon/plastic thing (looked a bit like flattened bubble wrap), but we are talking forty years ago and my memory isn't what it was (sorry). I do like your videos, they are bringing back a lot of memories. Thanks for uploading them.
The boots question is an interesting one, I have to say you're one of the few people I've communicated with who hasn't expressed contempt for the DMS boots, they have a very bad rep in the eyes of many veterans, who I've either spoken to or read their opinions expressed online or elsewhere. I do understand that quality declined some time after their introduction. I have a pair of 1970 dated DMS boots which still have a proper leather inner sole, etc. whilst an '80s pair I have are of notably lesser quality, the insole being formed of a thin fibre board (probably the origin of the rumour they included cardboard in their constructions). Then again a great deal of their infamy comes from the Falklands where it is true to say that no boot, however good could have ensured men's feet stayed dry and didn't suffer from the conditions though the DMS was certainly inferior to Argentine offerings. I know the insoles you mean, if I'm right I show them briefly here; ruclips.net/video/H3-5CtaVMxA/видео.htmlm3s I'm assuming the parade boots were the old hobnailed ammo boots? I have a pair which I keep well dubbined for reenacting and I couldn't ask for a better pair of boots, even with the limited wear they get they've softened up to the point of feeling almost like a pair of slippers! Glad you're enjoying the videos and thanks once again for the information, it's always interesting to hear. Might I ask where you served during your time?
Rifleman Moore That's the insoles that we had, they themselves weren't comfy to start with , but I think after time your feet moulded to them lol. When I completed training at CTCRM I was supposed to go to Malta with 42 Commando (i think it was them), but it was around that time that the Marines pulled out of Malta, so I didn't get to go. I was then supposed to go to 45 at Condor in Arbroath, but didn't. The reason for not going was a boys dream come true ( I wouldn't normally tell this to someone I didn't know, but as you are into military history you will probably know any way). I was asked (along with two or three others) by an WO2 who had come to Lympstone to watch our final weeks of training and our pass out, to attend an interview on a one to one basis with him. It turned out that a particular dept of the Royal Marines was expanding and they were looking for people of our age to groom (we were all under 18) and we were put through a further two years of training all over the world (I said it was a boys dream) and then I ended up based in Poole messing about in small boats and canoes amongst other things. So, I never actually served in a 'proper' commando unit (even when I was waiting to medically discharged I spent the last eight months helping out at CTCRM ), but I did spend sometime in N.Ireland, the far east, south america and a few places that even we didn't know the name of. Now this was unheard of previously, as beforehand, you had to have served as a marine for at least three years before you could even be considered for this unit, but they were wanting to expand fast and they didn't think they would get enough marines from the regular commando's and that was why they were looking at people who had just finished training as they were freshly fit and strong (supposedly lol). A lot of the old hands didn't like this one little bit, but after the first 18 months they started to warm to us. As this was over forty years ago, I don't think I'm letting any secrets out. Sorry, was getting carried away with my memories there. Yes, the parade boots were the hobnailed ones and made a brilliant noise when you were doing drill (especially if it was indoors). I looked after them as if they were the last pair of boots in the world as the toecap's were mirrors that you could shave in, and when not is use they were put away in a cotton bag with a duster over the toecap's to protect them.
It partially depends on the situation, trouser twists were certainly used but you'd be more likely to see the puttees just wrapped around the leg and trousers bloused over them with lightweight trousers in barracks, it's not particularly practical in the field.
@@RiflemanMoore Those trouser twist things came about around 1981, if I recall right. Sold as "Trouser Blousers". Before that, we used elastic bands. Battledress veterans told me that some people put short lengths of bike chain. I don't know if that was just a parade ground thing or what.
Would be interesting to see the Irish Army equipment & clothing of the same era and what the similarities and differences to their British equivalents were.
the sort of kit I remember soldiers wearing in Londonderry in the 1990s was not to dissimilar all be it a bit more modern. 1985 pattern and later 95 pattern with a Mk6 helmet, sometimes with the visor, although a lot of time I seen the army they were wearing berets. (it was generally quieter where I lived). SA80 rifle and CBA vest.
It's officially Londonderry and that's what the British Army would have referred to it as at the time, so that seemed most appropriate for the video. I'd likely call it Derry in casual conversation, however.
Those flak jackets were as much use as tits on a fish if shot. The later one had plates to put in to cover the heart and partial lungs. The remainder of the jacket is for some sort of blast protection. Webbing was always kept to a minimum so you could run like fck.
Ref the belt order should be two ammo pouches ,respirator and water bottle KF shirt was to torture you had to be shaved its not body armour its a flack jacket still have mine
The belt order in the photograph this is based on included only one ammunition pouch, two was by no means universal. The photograph is included in the video by way of reference. Thankfully the 1964 Pattern shirt worn here is nice and soft, pure wool as opposed to the later wool mix KFs which I believe first appeared in 1972. It's body armour officially, a flak jacket colloquially, I try and use official nomenclature, or close to, where possible.
@@RiflemanMoore when I signed out my kit it was flack jacket 1 for use off. probably each regiment called different names All 11 battalions of my regiment wore 2 pouches as we carried 4 magazines of 20 rds . A lot of the guys also acquired some American M14 pouches .
Was doing a bit of a hoke found an old 1033 it was fragmentaction vest . Originaly an American vest. I am a sad person to find old kit . The Army bought a lot of us vests at the start of the troubles the one I have has the butt pads on the shoulders. .
I'm hoping to make a video on the evolution of the covers at some point, there was a gradual improvement leading up to the rubber pads and stops. Which regiment did you serve with?
@@RiflemanMoore was MOD police with 1 and 2 Reg RMP 76 to 79 Ulster Defence Regiment CGC 79 to 1992 , Royal Irish Regiment CGC 92 to 2002 all op Banner , i remember guys asking me how many tours did you do in Northern Ireland when I said 1 they usually laugh and say they do 5 or 6 I always reply aye bur my tour started in 79 and finished in 02 have worked with loads of regiments from RMP to Comacchio Company Royal Marines. My favourite guys were the 1 Para and 2 Para.
The later body armour had a dogs tail. A little snap down canvas loop that held the back of the belt up. Soldiers had been making their own versions for a while. Soon as we got the dogs tail, they started ordering us to wear the armour under our smocks (looked less threatening apparently) so they became impractical and were tossed. You could get a good 10lb in your belt kit before it went adrift. Water bottles were soon discarded.
@@reece_v0391 listen here right, I'm going to assume it's not your own history do if it's not, then fuck off, if you come around here and call it London Derry then you'll get yourself killed for dishonouring us and our culture and that's a fact
here is a challange for you try walking like this in dublin and see how long you can survive (edit) I didn't want to change the original comment I made a mistake With Dublin and I am sorry for my lack of knowlage about this topic. I always tought that the Irish Republic also had a thing with the Bloody Sunday incident and I am sorry for my ignorance.
Rifleman Moore Rifleman Moore ohhh my bad well because of the IRA mainly I know your impression is for Northen Ireland but same challange would also work in Ireland I suppose.
I was in Derrylondon the other week visiting her HRH Theresa May, I must say, she has aged quite well. She didn't take kindly to my remarks regarding the death of Brits in which I told her the IRA didn't kill enough of you! Very sad!
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My dad went to Northern Ireland saw horrific things. He was in east Anglian regiment I believe during late 70s issued the L1A1 SLR then the sterling SMG.
royal Anglian regiment you mean? i was there in the late 1970's Belfast
Kf wool shirts, my neck feels sore & itchy just thinking about them! 😳 Great review btw RUclips algorithms don't half throw up interesting stuff sometimes!👍
f.k yeh you saying that just brought a kreepy feeling of how they ruddi well itched lmao .........
I remember the later "flak jacket" (with rubber shoulder pads for shouldering the rifle) which I was issued at the Hythe And Lydd "walkaround" range. The range where you patrol the streets reacting to fire and pop-up targets using live rounds. Cars and mannequins in the street.
Had bullet holes in the back of it. That REALLY creeped me out...
That is indeed rather disturbing...
I notice the helmet paint has changed from the gloss green of your 1969 video to a matt green for the 1972 video. Was this an actual change?
Impressive kit, wish more people did NI. Really enjoying these new kit videos.
Glad you are enjoying and thanks!
I do a 3 UDR vehicle checkpoint impression.
Dean Houston sounds good.
I served in Londonderry in 1978 and this was the kit we had.
@@MacBhloscaidh1 you forgot the question mark , here this is what it’s like. ? Sums you up I suppose.
Excellent impression!
Memo pad would be just single stainless spiral in 1972. As always great video 👍🏼
So why was the right hand ammo pouch worn on the left? And how was the S6 haversack worn on the belt? If I’m correct it didn’t have belt loops or the pins that all other 58 pattern pouches use
Good questions, on the first one, no idea to be honest. On the second, the respirator haversack isn't on the belt, it's carried on the shoulder strap which is under the body armour.
@@RiflemanMoore I have another question for you, I’ve been trying to source a pair of 68 pattern trousers in my size and finding originals is impossible. However I found a website that makes reproductions but they’re saying to measure around the navel (belly button) to get the correct waist size. Are the trousers meant to be worn so high or are they supposed to sit lower around the hips like a regular pair of trousers or jeans?
very good impression also my dad was in the army and went to northern Ireland, lost his best mate RIP
Thank you. When was your father over in Northern Ireland?
Rifleman Moore 70/80s he was issued the L1a1 and then there sterling SMG based raf Cottesmore
Good
@Jim Connolly Are you some sort of IRA sympathiser? I saw your other comment talking about Londonderry.
My dad was working on our doorstep pretty much and he did get wounded but was back a few weeks later and he went on to go to Afghan twice
Very nice man, I alot of guys left their flakvest open (unzipped) and some even just dumped them due to interference with Landrovers and Shorts shorelands. (The shorelands is more UDR but they did support some Army checkpoints and base security. ROI cards and other such things would be carried but i'm unsure of how hard they are to find outside of NI. Last main fair over here I picked up my Second OP Banner Aide Memoir and another original UDR cap badge.
Thanks for the info! Yeah the ROI cards are difficult to find, originals anyway, there was a chap reproducing them on eBay a while ago but they don't appear to be available now.
Wow nice video,
could you please make a video on the Australian jungle kit during Vietnam as theirs no vids on it
Thanks
I will do at some point though at present I don't have the kit to do 'one man's kit' in terms of rations and all the small kit carried in the field but I can take a look at the uniform.
thanks mate do you also have any early 90's german army kit
I'm afraid I only have British and some Commonwealth kit plus some kit from other nations used by same.
Awesome job man!! Can you do a Operation Granby/ Desert Shield/Storm video???
Check my recent uploads!
When did the ‘high Leg’ D.M.S. Boots and the Leather ‘Northern Ireland’ Gloves (with the padded Knuckle strip) come into service? Also ‘Lightweights’ Plain green trousers with a single thigh pocket (‘Map Pocket’) were often worn back then.
The standard issue Boots, Combat, High were trialled in the early '80s and began to appear more generally in the mid '80s. Prior to this Boots, Urban Patrol were issued in Northern Ireland, these were high leg boots designed specifically for pavement pounding, I believe these appeared in the mid '70s.
Similarly with the gloves, the initial pattern which also had padded backs to the fingers appeared in the early to mid '70s followed by the type you describe with just the knuckle pad in the late '70s, early '80s. Sorry I can't be more specific with dates off the cuff.
I'll be wearing lightweights if and when I do a mid '70s video. I didn't wear them for this as most of the photos I've found from the early '70s in Northern Ireland, including those from which the uniform I'm wearing is copied, show combat trousers being worn rather than lightweights. I'd concluded lightweights came into more general use in Northern Ireland around the mid '70s?
@@RiflemanMoore Many lads serving in the 70s bought their own boots, and used Doc Martins in NI.
@@peepresc8002 I remember my dad telling me this as well. He wore the solid colour trousers and Doc Martens. He served as a sapper in the mid to late 70's I think he left in 79.
Could you please do a video of every item that would go into a small pack during 44-45. Also for a big pack. Please show if you could how do you correctly put on all the straps for the big pack.
I will do at some point, definitely!
I work with a guy who served in the mid 80's. He said the soldiers were livid at having to hand in their SLR's for the SA-80. (The early SA-80's had teething problems)
Yes, the early L85 was dogged with many issues regarding reliability. It's been fixed but the weapon still hasn't shaken the bad reputation it deservedly gained early on.
I told my boss you can shove the sa80
He agreed but if he said that to the OC he would get shot at dawn
The first tour I did we had slr second tour sa 80. No comparison slr all day long .
Excellent as always mate
Many thanks!
great video, much love from the Republic
thanks very interesting my grandad was a welsh guard in northern Ireland on tour found it very interesting to see what he wore
Glad you found it interesting, thanks for commenting!
Massey Ferguson man 🖕🖕🖕
Massey Ferguson man 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
@@deeoneill9806 please dont represent our flag like a little cockend thanks
Cheers RM,
Ah look... 1960's pattern cardboard boots....We used to trade our 'Grebe Kodiak' boots to you poor squaddies when you came over to BATUS after touring Ulster... for your excellent battle smocks and '58' webbing, which were way better than ours.
Great Posts all round.
Thanks for the kind words, glad you've enjoyed the videos. I agree the DMS boots are a sad chapter in the history of British procurement which is, unfortunately, mired by other examples of the same.
RM.....Go for that...A ''10 Worst Army Buys Ever"segment...
That would be interesting, I'll give it some thought!
About how much do the 60 Pattern and 60 Pattern in DPM usually go for on average? I have the "type II 68 Pattern", the one with squared pockets. I'm basically geared for late 70s-early 80s for Op Banner but want to do 1969-72/73.
As with a lot of things it depends on size, in a decent size I've seen the smocks go for up to around £70 and the trousers around £50. That's creeping up as time goes on too, as they say they aren't making any more of them...
Rifleman Moore rats. And that doesn’t cover shipping from Europe either. Thanks for the info!
This time we both be enthousiastic about a piece of equipment: the FAL rifle. I really loved shooting that thing. Also great for knocking out teeth with the butt.
And in the early 90 iets, we had the same style underwear. We called them shelter halfs. :-) Nice vid. How do you get all that equipment? Including the rifles?
The rifle in this instance is borrowed from a friend but we can buy deactivated weapons fairly easily over here, I've picked some of mine up online and others at shows. Fantastic rifle as you say.
Its Derry as the majority is catholic not Londonderry. The British army never treated the north of Ireland as a country
Couple questions that may be beyond scope of video: you stated a spare magazine was carried, does this mean only 2 were ever carried or did this vary based on operational requirements such as in rural patrols? Also, were there any guidelines on how riot/baton guns were issued or was this done as required at unit level? Have never been able to find anything about this, hoping you or others visiting site may know. Many thanks for a another informative video.
Glad you enjoyed the video, the number of magazines and the amount of ammunition carried would vary depending on the type of duties being undertaken. As for the baton gun I will have to leave others to comment on that, not something I have any documentation on.
Thanks for such a quick response to my question. Something else came to mind regarding what I've seen referred to as "Doc Marten" boots being worn. I take it these were commercial high-top boots worn in place of DMS boots and puttees. Any idea of when these became used (sometime in mid 70s from what I gather) and were they approved for use or just another unofficial uniform modification that was tolerated?
There was the urban patrol boot which was an issue boot of light weight high leg construction with a relatively oft sole to give good grip on pavements, they wore out very quickly and as you say they were around from the mid '70s. Some men also wore privately purchased Doc Martens in place of DMS for the same purpose, they were tacitly tolerated by some units and not others from my understanding.
Thanks for another quick reply. Trying to trace progression of various uniforms and bits of kit during this period.
When it comes to kit and especially ammo, one has to take into account the 'Buckshee' stores. The unofficial stuff soldiers bought themselves or Pay Sgts arranged as extra. All companies kept a grab bag of extra ammo (especially baton rounds) for when things went sideways. Lots of reference to QMs running the gauntlet in land rovers chucking out loose rounds collected from range days. Sometimes in heroic quantities.
I was told the Baton gun was specifically designed not to fit the US 40mm grenades, people were concerned that if it could, someone would. We were issued M79s down on the border to deal with armoured dumper trucks. I've known 66mm LAWs taken to the border, and later in the SA80 days we were given an unknown rifle grenade of dubious manufacture, blue in colour, for which we received neither training or sights. Would have made for an interesting afternoon. These seemed to be semi-official, Battalion issue and kept out of sight.
In the 7.62mm days two half full mags were normal in town. In the cuds it was open season and we carried what we though we might need. The pair of 10 round mags were to hinder any plans to go loco and hose down a cul-de-sac. In the Cuds we normally carried 100 rounds a man, plus belt for the GPMG.
Later in the 5.56mm days, the lethality and wall penetrating power of the round reduced and we would routinely carry 25 round mags. Then again we couldn't stop cars with them either.
When deployed as brigade reserve we would switch between urban and rural, quite often without a chance to replen. You couldn't leave ammo and M79s unsecured in a bergan lying in a UDR base so you just made do and took them with you.
GPMGs went under the ops room desk and the gunners given a signallers SLR. He'd be out there with a magazine fed weapon and still be running around with jingly link in his pouches. If you were unlucky you got a cooks SMG, but of course the mags didn't fit the webbing and the cooks had long since debombed them. Ive done a patrol with armed with single SMG mag holding a couple of 9mm swiped from a pistol and 100 rounds of 7.62 belt in my pouches.
Where the News cameras might be (Belfast, Derry, and then only the bits you've heard of - never saw a journalist in the Ardoyne) the uniform was fairly well regulated. But out in the cuds it was a veritable fashion show of irregular kit. Soon became a showy, pride off thing and was routinely spoken out against, but never enforced.
Army kit in the 70s and 80s was for the first time lagging behind civvy mountaineering gear. I had dark blue gaiters, dark blue Helly Hansens, a lovely lime green gortex waterproof, Ive gone tactical in hunter wellies, which is warm but smelly.
Officers and Regimental funds used to help us acquire this kit, I remember a truck load of Gortex Dana boots turning up once, cause our assault boots had turned to cardboard. No one asked where they came from, nothing was signed for. Still have mine in the closet, I used them for ten years on the beat in winter till they became racing slicks.
love this thanks
Kelly serving in the British Army,ironic,good video on field Kit.
I don't know how it was for the Army, but in the Royal Marines the puttees were lower down on the boot and the tape was secured on the outside of the puttee and not the inside as you have shown.
Again I don't know about the Army, but the boots we had (73 -79) were really comfy once they were broken in and lasted ages if they were looked after properly. (hope I'm not nit picking to much) We also wore our own smocks and had elastic bands to keep the bottom of the trouser leg on the outside of the puttee as it looked much better that wrapping the trouser leg inside the puttee.
The puttees are something I've been advised on since doing this video by an Army veteran, as you say securing them on the outside just behind the end so that any excess tape can be tucked away under it, now I know! Just above the fifth eyelet seems to be a common height to have them wound around in Army use going by period photographs.
Were you issued standard DMS boots during your service? I understand earlier manufacture were of better quality and it was as the '70s wore on and into the early '80s that manufacture began to drop off with cheaper and cheaper materials, including fibre board for the insole etc.
Not too much nit picking at all, thanks for the comment!
We were issued a standard pair of DMS boots and a pair of Parade boots (which incidentally were also comfy once worn in and again lasted even longer if looked after properly (although we didn't wear them all that much)) If memory serves me right, my first pair of DMS boots lasted nearly two years (next couple of pairs lasted just as long) and the Parade boots lasted nearly four years (didn't wear them much), while my shoes were the only pair I was issued with throughout my six and a half years. Either we were given better quality footwear, or we just looked after them better, as most of the guys had their boots and shoes for about the same length of time as I did. With regards to how the puttees were worn, it could be a case of we just did things slightly different to the Army, but I think we all agreed, they did do a great job in protecting your ankles when going over rough terrain (if you did them up properly). I also think the insole was like a nylon/plastic thing (looked a bit like flattened bubble wrap), but we are talking forty years ago and my memory isn't what it was (sorry).
I do like your videos, they are bringing back a lot of memories.
Thanks for uploading them.
The boots question is an interesting one, I have to say you're one of the few people I've communicated with who hasn't expressed contempt for the DMS boots, they have a very bad rep in the eyes of many veterans, who I've either spoken to or read their opinions expressed online or elsewhere. I do understand that quality declined some time after their introduction. I have a pair of 1970 dated DMS boots which still have a proper leather inner sole, etc. whilst an '80s pair I have are of notably lesser quality, the insole being formed of a thin fibre board (probably the origin of the rumour they included cardboard in their constructions). Then again a great deal of their infamy comes from the Falklands where it is true to say that no boot, however good could have ensured men's feet stayed dry and didn't suffer from the conditions though the DMS was certainly inferior to Argentine offerings.
I know the insoles you mean, if I'm right I show them briefly here; ruclips.net/video/H3-5CtaVMxA/видео.htmlm3s
I'm assuming the parade boots were the old hobnailed ammo boots? I have a pair which I keep well dubbined for reenacting and I couldn't ask for a better pair of boots, even with the limited wear they get they've softened up to the point of feeling almost like a pair of slippers!
Glad you're enjoying the videos and thanks once again for the information, it's always interesting to hear. Might I ask where you served during your time?
Rifleman Moore That's the insoles that we had, they themselves weren't comfy to start with , but I think after time your feet moulded to them lol.
When I completed training at CTCRM I was supposed to go to Malta with 42 Commando (i think it was them), but it was around that time that the Marines pulled out of Malta, so I didn't get to go. I was then supposed to go to 45 at Condor in Arbroath, but didn't. The reason for not going was a boys dream come true ( I wouldn't normally tell this to someone I didn't know, but as you are into military history you will probably know any way). I was asked (along with two or three others) by an WO2 who had come to Lympstone to watch our final weeks of training and our pass out, to attend an interview on a one to one basis with him. It turned out that a particular dept of the Royal Marines was expanding and they were looking for people of our age to groom (we were all under 18) and we were put through a further two years of training all over the world (I said it was a boys dream) and then I ended up based in Poole messing about in small boats and canoes amongst other things. So, I never actually served in a 'proper' commando unit (even when I was waiting to medically discharged I spent the last eight months helping out at CTCRM ), but I did spend sometime in N.Ireland, the far east, south america and a few places that even we didn't know the name of. Now this was unheard of previously, as beforehand, you had to have served as a marine for at least three years before you could even be considered for this unit, but they were wanting to expand fast and they didn't think they would get enough marines from the regular commando's and that was why they were looking at people who had just finished training as they were freshly fit and strong (supposedly lol). A lot of the old hands didn't like this one little bit, but after the first 18 months they started to warm to us. As this was over forty years ago, I don't think I'm letting any secrets out.
Sorry, was getting carried away with my memories there. Yes, the parade boots were the hobnailed ones and made a brilliant noise when you were doing drill (especially if it was indoors). I looked after them as if they were the last pair of boots in the world as the toecap's were mirrors that you could shave in, and when not is use they were put away in a cotton bag with a duster over the toecap's to protect them.
Thanks for sharing, always very interested to read such anecdotes, be it your service or details on kit, always fascinating to read!
No such place as "Londonderry" either
DERRY🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
I like this video. The uniform of patrol troops in Northen Ireland
Many thanks glad you liked it!
Do I tuck the trousers into the puttees or do I blouse them on top
Wind the puttee around the ankle of the trousers, then blouse over.
Rifleman Moore thanks I saw a video when someone said to wrap around the leg then use twisters to blouse them I got confused
It partially depends on the situation, trouser twists were certainly used but you'd be more likely to see the puttees just wrapped around the leg and trousers bloused over them with lightweight trousers in barracks, it's not particularly practical in the field.
@@RiflemanMoore Those trouser twist things came about around 1981, if I recall right. Sold as "Trouser Blousers".
Before that, we used elastic bands.
Battledress veterans told me that some people put short lengths of bike chain. I don't know if that was just a parade ground thing or what.
What were they wearing at Warrenpoint when they got fucking blew to bits?
I'll be doing a video on late '70s kit at some point in the future.
Even back in those days we were short of kit I remember as a sapper we had to share flak jackets because there wasn’t enough to go round !
I've heard as much, there was a rush on to buy them from the US who were disposing of their older patterns as they were replaced in use in Vietnam.
The one I wore in N.I. back in 89-90 ,was dated 1969 lol .... made me think of whether it saw service in Vietnam lmao.....
Would be interesting to see the Irish Army equipment & clothing of the same era and what the similarities and differences to their British equivalents were.
It's planned for the future!
The Irish had one spud gun between them
@@geordiewishart1683 to be sure…
@david gallagher Didn`t do them much good at Loughgall when that Toyota van got turned into a Sieve along with it`s occupants.
the sort of kit I remember soldiers wearing in Londonderry in the 1990s was not to dissimilar all be it a bit more modern. 1985 pattern and later 95 pattern with a Mk6 helmet, sometimes with the visor, although a lot of time I seen the army they were wearing berets. (it was generally quieter where I lived). SA80 rifle and CBA vest.
It's very interesting to see how the kit developed incrementally, I intend to do a video on the '80s/'90s kit at some point.
DERRY.
It's Derry
Oh not it’s not matey. 😊👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Putters are tied up on the outside of the ankle not the inside
“I’ve got a brand new pair of kinky boots...”
I have two turtles wish I could find one with the riot variation.
They're getting harder and harder to find unfortunately.
U miss spelled derry
I think you meant to say Derry
It's officially Londonderry and that's what the British Army would have referred to it as at the time, so that seemed most appropriate for the video. I'd likely call it Derry in casual conversation, however.
@@RiflemanMoore good point so would I. 👍
Those flak jackets were as much use as tits on a fish if shot. The later one had plates to put in to cover the heart and partial lungs. The remainder of the jacket is for some sort of blast protection. Webbing was always kept to a minimum so you could run like fck.
Ref the belt order should be two ammo pouches ,respirator and water bottle KF shirt was to torture you had to be shaved its not body armour its a flack jacket still have mine
The belt order in the photograph this is based on included only one ammunition pouch, two was by no means universal. The photograph is included in the video by way of reference. Thankfully the 1964 Pattern shirt worn here is nice and soft, pure wool as opposed to the later wool mix KFs which I believe first appeared in 1972. It's body armour officially, a flak jacket colloquially, I try and use official nomenclature, or close to, where possible.
@@RiflemanMoore when I signed out my kit it was flack jacket 1 for use off. probably each regiment called different names
All 11 battalions of my regiment wore 2 pouches as we carried 4 magazines of 20 rds . A lot of the guys also acquired some American M14 pouches .
Was doing a bit of a hoke found an old 1033 it was fragmentaction vest .
Originaly an American vest. I am a sad person to find old kit . The Army bought a lot of us vests at the start of the troubles the one I have has the butt pads on the shoulders. .
I'm hoping to make a video on the evolution of the covers at some point, there was a gradual improvement leading up to the rubber pads and stops. Which regiment did you serve with?
@@RiflemanMoore was MOD police with 1 and 2 Reg RMP 76 to 79
Ulster Defence Regiment CGC 79 to 1992 , Royal Irish Regiment CGC 92 to 2002 all op Banner , i remember guys asking me how many tours did you do in
Northern Ireland when I said 1 they usually laugh and say they do 5 or 6
I always reply aye bur my tour started in 79 and finished in 02 have worked with loads of regiments from RMP to Comacchio Company Royal Marines.
My favourite guys were the 1 Para and 2 Para.
Murderers is all they were/are
No the the ira were
It's Derry
Who really gives a fuck what it is?
It's a pathetic argument.
Won't skeleton webbing fall off without the straps to hold it up?
No, it sits on the hips quite nicely.
I see, do you have to make the belt extra tight or just a comfortable snugness will do?
Just a comfortable snugness, remember it's only supporting the water bottle and one ammunition pouch.
The later body armour had a dogs tail. A little snap down canvas loop that held the back of the belt up. Soldiers had been making their own versions for a while. Soon as we got the dogs tail, they started ordering us to wear the armour under our smocks (looked less threatening apparently) so they became impractical and were tossed. You could get a good 10lb in your belt kit before it went adrift. Water bottles were soon discarded.
🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
Let’s go Brandon
I loved the movie 72 about that its soooooo goood.
Not seen it myself, will have to give it a look.
Rifleman Moore its based on a true story of a guy that was left behind and he has to hide with the ira its crazy good.
1971
Just so you know it's not called londonderry it's just derry ok🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
Its Derry, not Londonderry, just Derry!!!!
What does it say on a map?
@@reece_v0391 the irish map or the black and tan one???? And it was originally derry just the Brits decided to rename it for some retarded reason
@@leemurphy8710 i know the history but if it was renamed isnt that the name of it?
@@reece_v0391 listen here right, I'm going to assume it's not your own history do if it's not, then fuck off, if you come around here and call it London Derry then you'll get yourself killed for dishonouring us and our culture and that's a fact
@JKYLLR 04 really?? I didn't know that but thanks
Derry*
Good Videos tho!
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Flak vest yeah
Coloquially, yes, officially body armour.
Its Derry ya Numpty!!!
Are day will come
So will God's!?!
🇮🇪🇮🇪Derry 🇮🇪🇮🇪
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
It's spelled like this: "Derry"
here is a challange for you try walking like this in dublin and see how long you can survive
(edit) I didn't want to change the original comment I made a mistake With Dublin and I am sorry for my lack of knowlage about this topic. I always tought that the Irish Republic also had a thing with the Bloody Sunday incident and I am sorry for my ignorance.
Why Dublin? It's in the Republic of Ireland.
Rifleman Moore Rifleman Moore ohhh my bad well because of the IRA mainly I know your impression is for Northen Ireland but same challange would also work in Ireland I suppose.
Belfast then
I imagine the reaction would likely depend on exactly where in Belfast. Regardless it would be pointlessly provocative.
Mr Duke Silver yup I think he wouldn’t last 5 mins
Ira all the way
Triple F 🟢⚪️🟠
I grew up living beside Ebrington Barracks and every soldier who served in this scum riddled city of mine is a hero to me.
Horrible person
I was in Derrylondon the other week visiting her HRH Theresa May, I must say, she has aged quite well. She didn't take kindly to my remarks regarding the death of Brits in which I told her the IRA didn't kill enough of you! Very sad!
Her Her Royal Highness Princess Theresa of Derrylondon must have been most aggrieved, to be sure.
God will have the last say!??