⚠️⚠️ *HIT READ MORE FOR EXPLANATION ON ODDS OF BEATING A PLAYER AS WELL AS MORE NUANCE* ⚠️⚠️ Join the Pong Connect Discord server here - discord.gg/UbakrKSFCp Watch this video if you are interested in free coaching - ruclips.net/video/4kx6vUv2F3w/видео.html I didn't explain it in the video, but you have a ~50% chance of beating someone with the same rating as you. You have a ~15-20% chance of beating someone 100 points higher than you. And you have about a 2% chance of beating someone who's 200 points higher than you. The odds of beating someone 250-300 points above you or higher are extremely slim and a statistical anomaly. However, players who are rapidly improving are likely to cause huge upsets as their ratings will be lower than their true playing standards. That means all of what I just mentioned only applies when the ratings actually indicate the players' true playing standards. Here is an explanation on how ratings are calculated, including adjustments for players who have caused huge upsets / had rapid improvement - www.usatt.org/events-and-results/rating-systems-explained I want to note some nuance as it relates to "pro" players. 24-2500+ *(using the USATT scale)* may be "only" semi-pro in a country like Germany, Japan, China, etc. but be literally the number 1 player on the national team somewhere else. Because of that I consider it a professional *level* (relative to the US), but that doesn't necessarily mean *everyone* at that level is a pro. It just means some full-time pros are at that level. For what it's worth, upper 2400s to lower 2500s on the women's side puts you in the top 150-200 in the world, which is obviously a full-time professional level. As a point of reference, there are players in MLTT, which is the highest pro league in the US, who are in the 2400s and 2500s. In a country like Germany, you'd probably need to be 26-2700+ (23-2400+ TTR) to be considered a true full-time pro who could primarily or completely live off table tennis. To reiterate what was mentioned in the video, I believe ~2300 ± 100 (~2000 TTR ± 100) is where the semi-pro playing level begins. In the United States, there isn't a true semi-pro scene, but at this level, you can earn decent chunks of cash here and there through local leagues and tournaments. This is also a level where you might have free membership at some clubs, and brands may offer sponsorships (heavily discounted or completely free gear). Abroad, ~2300 ± 100 (~2000 TTR ± 100) is the point where you'll typically start receiving some form of compensation from your club. Some will start paying a small salary, although not every club follows this practice. At others, players at this level will get other forms of compensation like free club membership, heavily discounted (or free) equipment, gas money, etc. A club may also decide to contract a player at this level as both a coach and a player. You could consider this level to simply be a very good hobbyist, although I would argue that it qualifies as semi-pro by definition. At this level, you're skilled enough that others are willing to provide you with free items or potentially compensate you just to play. In other words, you're at a playing standard where you could find monetary opportunities if you truly wanted, although many players do not pursue this route as they simply love the sport and want to play stress free at their preferred club. The higher your playing standard the higher your compensation, and by 2450-2500 (2150-2200 TTR) you'll be earning a very significant amount of money, and view table tennis as a second job instead of just a hobby. This makes sense, since maintaining this level of table tennis is basically a part time job in terms of the time you must spend training. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 0:34 USATT vs TTR Elo systems 1:32 Overview of USATT rating system 2:14 0-800 (beginner) 3:10 800-1200 (advanced beginner) 3:44 1200-1500 (intermediate) 4:35 1500-1800 (upper intermediate) 5:22 1800-2000 (advanced) 6:18 2000-2200 (extremely advanced / expert) 7:35 2200+ (semi-professional) 8:40 2500+ (pro level) 8:58 2600-3000 (world's best players) 9:39 What percentile of the player base your level puts you in (start of part 2) 15:00 On screen list
great video. I dont do tournament's but playing pretty ok level daily and was curious about this. good to know. Also a chess player so this made it easier as well.
I topped at 2226 rating (not USATT, nor German TTR system), and work as a coach currently. I’ll start studying this next summer, so I won’t be full time by then, but will keep working with my players part time 🤞 Great video!
4:15 What do you mean by formal training/club play as a distinction from not having coaching? On its own it seems like just regularly playing at a club without a coach applies as having formal club play but i thought you seperated out all the non-club players earlier in the video.
I was just saying someone with no coaching, training, OR club play as a point of reference would have almost no chance of getting to that level on their own e.g. just with basement play or playing with friends etc. But yes playing at a club without a coach applies as having formal club play. Even without coaching, or training with a strong practice partner, exposure to club play / leagues if you've never seen it before can elevate your game.
Great video! I’m curious if league ratings and tournament ratings are similar? I’ve noticed a lot of people in the intermediate level seem to have higher league ratings, but perhaps this is because they get to play more games?
@@crux-code thanks! And yes generally in the long run league and tournament ratings should be quite similar. Although if a person has problem of getting nervous in tournaments or has more league matches than tournament matches then the tournament rating could end up artificially low
Coming from a nation without a rating system, I have always been confused / fascinated by US players constant reference about rating. Thank you Looee for clearing this confusion for me. Now I am clearer what the numbers mean.
In Germany, a 2200 TTR player is nowhere near semi-pro-still far away. That’s just someone playing decently but with too little skill to ever win money. Semi-pro starts around 2400, and pros are 2600+. Well, I guess in the US, they don’t have much high-level competition. Big skill gap between US and Europe 🤣
@siegfriedwalk8577 This is not accurate at all. I asked one of my subscribers who lives in Germany and plays in the leagues there for some insight. He said 2150-2200TTR is where people start to view table tennis almost as a second job instead of just a hobby, and probably where "true" semi-professional starts. 2150-2200 is also where you start to make a significant amount of money. 2400TTR is a professional who mainly lives off table tennis. At ~2000TTR you start to get some benefits like free rubbers, gas, club membership, etc. And while not every club there are some clubs that will start paying you at this level as well. This could be considered a very good hobbyist although I argue this still counts as semi-pro simply by definition, because you're at a playing standard respectable enough to where other people are literally giving you stuff for free or potentially compensating you just to play. In other words, you're at a level where you could find money for playing if you really wanted to although many do not. Here in the states a 2300 level (~2000TTR) is good enough to get a sponsorship from a brand, get free club membership, make some money playing in local leagues / tournaments, etc. See my pinned comment for even more nuance as it relates to "pro" players. Of course, you are correct that Germany is stronger than the US, but that is irrelevant, and it is extremely rude to say we don't have much high-level competition. Especially in the last 10 years or so the US has gotten much stronger, and we even have a player who cracked top 20 in the world rankings. Go look at the players participating in the US Open this year for reference.
@loeeeloeee how do you edit your videos? In your VoD review video could you recommend the best app/software to trim videos quickly and maybe pin it in comments?
For really simple stuff like quickly cutting and trimming I use windows live movie maker. You can't get it here - web.archive.org/web/20170112124505/http:/wl.dlservice.microsoft.com/download/C/1/B/C1BA42D6-6A50-4A4A-90E5-FA9347E9360C/en/wlsetup-all.exe and when you go to install just unselect everything except for movie maker. For more advanced stuff I use Sony Vegas Pro which has a bit of a learning curve but is much more powerful and not too difficult to use once you're used to it.
⚠️⚠️ *HIT READ MORE FOR EXPLANATION ON ODDS OF BEATING A PLAYER AS WELL AS MORE NUANCE* ⚠️⚠️
Join the Pong Connect Discord server here - discord.gg/UbakrKSFCp
Watch this video if you are interested in free coaching - ruclips.net/video/4kx6vUv2F3w/видео.html
I didn't explain it in the video, but you have a ~50% chance of beating someone with the same rating as you. You have a ~15-20% chance of beating someone 100 points higher than you. And you have about a 2% chance of beating someone who's 200 points higher than you. The odds of beating someone 250-300 points above you or higher are extremely slim and a statistical anomaly. However, players who are rapidly improving are likely to cause huge upsets as their ratings will be lower than their true playing standards. That means all of what I just mentioned only applies when the ratings actually indicate the players' true playing standards. Here is an explanation on how ratings are calculated, including adjustments for players who have caused huge upsets / had rapid improvement - www.usatt.org/events-and-results/rating-systems-explained
I want to note some nuance as it relates to "pro" players. 24-2500+ *(using the USATT scale)* may be "only" semi-pro in a country like Germany, Japan, China, etc. but be literally the number 1 player on the national team somewhere else. Because of that I consider it a professional *level* (relative to the US), but that doesn't necessarily mean *everyone* at that level is a pro. It just means some full-time pros are at that level. For what it's worth, upper 2400s to lower 2500s on the women's side puts you in the top 150-200 in the world, which is obviously a full-time professional level. As a point of reference, there are players in MLTT, which is the highest pro league in the US, who are in the 2400s and 2500s. In a country like Germany, you'd probably need to be 26-2700+ (23-2400+ TTR) to be considered a true full-time pro who could primarily or completely live off table tennis.
To reiterate what was mentioned in the video, I believe ~2300 ± 100 (~2000 TTR ± 100) is where the semi-pro playing level begins. In the United States, there isn't a true semi-pro scene, but at this level, you can earn decent chunks of cash here and there through local leagues and tournaments. This is also a level where you might have free membership at some clubs, and brands may offer sponsorships (heavily discounted or completely free gear).
Abroad, ~2300 ± 100 (~2000 TTR ± 100) is the point where you'll typically start receiving some form of compensation from your club. Some will start paying a small salary, although not every club follows this practice. At others, players at this level will get other forms of compensation like free club membership, heavily discounted (or free) equipment, gas money, etc. A club may also decide to contract a player at this level as both a coach and a player. You could consider this level to simply be a very good hobbyist, although I would argue that it qualifies as semi-pro by definition. At this level, you're skilled enough that others are willing to provide you with free items or potentially compensate you just to play. In other words, you're at a playing standard where you could find monetary opportunities if you truly wanted, although many players do not pursue this route as they simply love the sport and want to play stress free at their preferred club.
The higher your playing standard the higher your compensation, and by 2450-2500 (2150-2200 TTR) you'll be earning a very significant amount of money, and view table tennis as a second job instead of just a hobby. This makes sense, since maintaining this level of table tennis is basically a part time job in terms of the time you must spend training.
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:34 USATT vs TTR Elo systems
1:32 Overview of USATT rating system
2:14 0-800 (beginner)
3:10 800-1200 (advanced beginner)
3:44 1200-1500 (intermediate)
4:35 1500-1800 (upper intermediate)
5:22 1800-2000 (advanced)
6:18 2000-2200 (extremely advanced / expert)
7:35 2200+ (semi-professional)
8:40 2500+ (pro level)
8:58 2600-3000 (world's best players)
9:39 What percentile of the player base your level puts you in (start of part 2)
15:00 On screen list
Didn’t you do a video on this years ago. If you did I can’t find it now
Yes I did haha. It was a bit of a jumbled mess so this serves as a replacement, and I have made the old video private.
@@Looeelooee Ok thanks for the clarification. Nice informative video and keep up the great content
@@taureanlloyd925 No problem!
great video. I dont do tournament's but playing pretty ok level daily and was curious about this. good to know. Also a chess player so this made it easier as well.
I topped at 2226 rating (not USATT, nor German TTR system), and work as a coach currently.
I’ll start studying this next summer, so I won’t be full time by then, but will keep working with my players part time 🤞
Great video!
Very nice!! Glad you enjoyed the video
great video, ty
Np!
One thing worth mentioning/explaining would have been how Elo/TTR/USATT differences between you and your opponent translate to winning probabilities
Will add to description / pinned comment later today!
Description edited and have also edited pinned comment.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed!
4:15
What do you mean by formal training/club play as a distinction from not having coaching? On its own it seems like just regularly playing at a club without a coach applies as having formal club play but i thought you seperated out all the non-club players earlier in the video.
I was just saying someone with no coaching, training, OR club play as a point of reference would have almost no chance of getting to that level on their own e.g. just with basement play or playing with friends etc. But yes playing at a club without a coach applies as having formal club play.
Even without coaching, or training with a strong practice partner, exposure to club play / leagues if you've never seen it before can elevate your game.
Great video
Thanks!
Great video! I’m curious if league ratings and tournament ratings are similar? I’ve noticed a lot of people in the intermediate level seem to have higher league ratings, but perhaps this is because they get to play more games?
@@crux-code thanks! And yes generally in the long run league and tournament ratings should be quite similar. Although if a person has problem of getting nervous in tournaments or has more league matches than tournament matches then the tournament rating could end up artificially low
Coming from a nation without a rating system, I have always been confused / fascinated by US players constant reference about rating. Thank you Looee for clearing this confusion for me. Now I am clearer what the numbers mean.
Glad I could help!
In Germany, a 2200 TTR player is nowhere near semi-pro-still far away. That’s just someone playing decently but with too little skill to ever win money. Semi-pro starts around 2400, and pros are 2600+. Well, I guess in the US, they don’t have much high-level competition. Big skill gap between US and Europe 🤣
yeah, 2000-2200 US looks like 1600 in GErmany ~
@siegfriedwalk8577 This is not accurate at all.
I asked one of my subscribers who lives in Germany and plays in the leagues there for some insight. He said 2150-2200TTR is where people start to view table tennis almost as a second job instead of just a hobby, and probably where "true" semi-professional starts. 2150-2200 is also where you start to make a significant amount of money. 2400TTR is a professional who mainly lives off table tennis. At ~2000TTR you start to get some benefits like free rubbers, gas, club membership, etc. And while not every club there are some clubs that will start paying you at this level as well. This could be considered a very good hobbyist although I argue this still counts as semi-pro simply by definition, because you're at a playing standard respectable enough to where other people are literally giving you stuff for free or potentially compensating you just to play. In other words, you're at a level where you could find money for playing if you really wanted to although many do not.
Here in the states a 2300 level (~2000TTR) is good enough to get a sponsorship from a brand, get free club membership, make some money playing in local leagues / tournaments, etc. See my pinned comment for even more nuance as it relates to "pro" players.
Of course, you are correct that Germany is stronger than the US, but that is irrelevant, and it is extremely rude to say we don't have much high-level competition. Especially in the last 10 years or so the US has gotten much stronger, and we even have a player who cracked top 20 in the world rankings. Go look at the players participating in the US Open this year for reference.
@@marcelaquiladj This is also totally inaccurate. 1600 ttr is roughly 1900 for usatt.
@loeeeloeee how do you edit your videos? In your VoD review video could you recommend the best app/software to trim videos quickly and maybe pin it in comments?
For really simple stuff like quickly cutting and trimming I use windows live movie maker. You can't get it here - web.archive.org/web/20170112124505/http:/wl.dlservice.microsoft.com/download/C/1/B/C1BA42D6-6A50-4A4A-90E5-FA9347E9360C/en/wlsetup-all.exe and when you go to install just unselect everything except for movie maker. For more advanced stuff I use Sony Vegas Pro which has a bit of a learning curve but is much more powerful and not too difficult to use once you're used to it.