In addition to the visual effects of the film nanotech suits also impede on being able to tell an interesting and high stakes story like in Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania.
Even Tom Holland dislikes the nanosuit stuff. He said he really loves the way damage to a suit tells a story. The way the suit tears in Spider-Man 2 is an example.
if you look up interviews he literally says he preferred the homemade suit from Homecoming because it felt comfortable and told you much more of a story than the nanosuit. It's easier for him to act in and lets him be more focused on the character. In contrast, he said the lycra suits they use to make it easier for postproduction feel like shit to wear and make it harder to act
I think if Ant-man and the wasp didn't have their suits, the best way for them to get their suits would be if Kang had keep trinkets from the Avengers he had killed, this could set him up as a more imposing villain at the same time.
It would have been just incredible. I can really imagine that they could have found their costumes but in an accurate comic book version from another universe like Old Loki and his costume
Why is it people like this have far better ideas for these movies than the "professional" writers? I can see it now. Scott and Hope being forced to break into Kang's "trophy room" to steal alternate versions of the Ant-Man and Wasp suits. You want fanservice? You got it in the form of a super hero morgue. I pictured Rocket Raccoon's head mounted on the wall and Spider-Man's torn up costume wrapped in webs.
@@dannypalin9583 because they are establishing an ideas that the writers has already produced. Not coming up of ideas on their own. Plus it makes no sense, Kang got send to Quantum Realm, why on earth would he have his trophies? LMAO
@@dannypalin9583 could also tease future heroes like the xmen while having it be less focused than other cameos. maybe we get a section dedicated to something like the things rock anatomy with half being stone and the other being bone. or maybe we get a section with xmen characters and we get a piece of kangs armor that had been cut by wolverine with the claws still embedded because he tore wolverines arms off.
@@thanos6635 "Kang got send to Quantum Realm" Yes, but... In the movie he was already sent to quantum realm with his equipment that allowed him to conquer quantum realm... Which was idiotic on it's own, so sending there trophies alongside the equipment, wouldn't change much.
The Iron Man nano suit upgrade fits the best. When he activates it, they took the time to show you how the nanotech is forming the individual pieces on different layers under the armor first. It made sense and looked real. Tony even teased the tech in Civil War with his watch growing into a gauntlet with a pulsar ray.
Right, iron man’s nano tech suit up was always dope af, and made it less time consuming and let heroes always be on Go time, I don’t mind heroes having nano tech, it makes it more easier for them, the only thing I ask is to make the nano tech costume actually look cool like tony mk 85 instead of being over designed, I don’t like marvels recent work, but lmao people are just trying way to hard to hate on anything
@@natchu96 He no longer has the chest cavity I think after the operation. In comic the nanites are stored in his bones but still does not explain the masses required to create the armor. And yes it must be very heavy to carry inside the body.
If all the suits are nanotech it also raises the question of why no one would make a suit that could do everything. Some shrinking-growing iron man suit with kinetic absorption and insta kill mode.
This is a question that is more obvious now, but has always existed in the MCU. Tony builds lots of Iron Man suits. So why did he never build any for all of the Avengers? Do Captain America and Hulk NEED Iron Man suits? No but they’d greatly benefit from one! Meanwhile Black Widow and Hawkeye are professionally trained agents who’d naturally have an advantage in flying armor. In fact when you start going through everyone who should get an Iron Man suit, ironically the person who ends up being the least qualified to use one is Tony Stark
@@z-beeblebrox Well for one there's no real reason for any of those guys to have Iron Man suits. I'm sure the thing Black Widow of all people really needs to function at her A Game is to be cramped up in a metal suit, or Hawkeye really benefiting from having to shoot arrows while inside of a suit. Tony literally did build Bruce an Iron Man suit, idk how the Hulk specifically is going to get any use out of an Iron Man Suit. He's virtually indestructible and can jump so high he doesn't need to be able to fly. And isn't the fact that Iron Man is the least qualified to have an Iron Man suit, the reason he's in an Iron Man Suit. His suit is the only think keeping him on par with everyone else. Like really think about that. This guy needs a metal suit, just to be on PAR with everyone else. Doesn't that say what it needs to say about everyone else not needing one. You can't just say things for the sake of saying things and treat that as a flaw in the universe. Not a single person you made note of would be benefitted from an Iron Man suit outside of "Human is soft, metal not soft".
You do realize that half of those things listed are things designed by people who specifically keep all their technology to themselves. Wakanda doesn't have shrinking tech, no one else has readily available vibranium and even if they did, the kinetic absorption into releasing part is still something only Shuri knows how to make use of. And Wakanda does now straight up have Iron Man suits, if they are likewise made out of vibranium (which they aren't in the comics) than they do technically have kinetic absorption, which is just a property of vibranium. We never get a real reason why specifically the black panther suits can hold onto it, but one could infer there's some limitation to how that can be applied .
@@z-beeblebrox I feel like this is something that would have come up offscreen in the time before Civil War, when Stark was going on about his idea of "putting a suit of armor around the world", that he could just give everyone else Iron Man suits, too, and they would be even stronger. But everyone just rejected this idea like they rejected him in other ways. Especially Cap. You'd have to drag him kicking and screaming into a suit made by Stark.
My peeve with nano technology is that they use it as an excuse to constantly show actors faces, instead of allowing them act fully masked. This wasn't an issue in early Phases of the MCU; you could still "feel" Tony's expressions through the mask. The Mandalorian and V For Vendetta are prime examples of how you can make a fully masked hero show feel expressive even when their faces barely, if ever, appear on screen.
You say wasn't an issue in early phrases as if the MCU didn't invent an entire new filming technique specifically to show people's faces while they're inside an Iron Man suit. Or modern Spiderman where their main suits are able to emote with dynamic eyes. If there's nothing wrong with having a masked character act, than why is there something wrong with having them act, without a mask. That's just a weird thing to complain about. The point of masks are to conceal identity, the second that's not needed in the story, any one of these superhero or superhero adjacent stories, the mask goes off as often as it needs to.
@@Whispernyanthe issue is that they have them showing their faces at every point in the movie for no reason. They even have them show their faces at points where it wouldnt make sense. It doesnt feel genuin, what about that do you not understand????
batman as a whole dude, he keeps his mask most of the times even when he's at the cave, he only takes the mask off when he disguises himself as bruce wayne
I'd say an example too would be deadpool. Yeah you see his face in the movie but most of the time he is masked and yet you kinda vibe with him. I feel that is a way to do it
@@Whispernyan It's not weird actually it's a legitimate criticism, even the part where they show faces inside the suit is annoying already. They even have Michael Keaton do the same technique as Vulture. So what more of this nanotech gibberish to have an excuse of showing the actor's faces every second.
I really liked suits that looked and felt physical and grounded. The iron man suit ups were absolutely fantastic. You could see each individual bearing plate move around, interlocking. It made it feal incredibly real. I absolutely hate what they did to the iron heart suit. She looked like she jumped right out of an anime. I just hope for future stuff we get to see some more stuff that looks and acts like they exist in the real world.
I also like when heroes with secret identities have to worry about where to change into their costume. And also you get cool iconic moments with physical masks/helmets, like when Tchalla puts down his helmet in the snow before confronting Zemo.
The Same Raimi Spider-Man trilogy ruled over my childhood, and I remember creating drawings of Spider-Man with his suit all ripped up, bloody, and defeated. Over and over again. My parents probably thought I was messed up in the head for drawing bloody Spider-Man all the time, but from my eyes, I saw it as my favorite hero never giving up against his evil opponents, no matter how defeated he already is. It just wouldn’t be the same if Spider-Man can just build a new nano-tech suit in his basement anytime he wants. Which is why I’m excited for the future of Spider-Man in the MCU, if they hold true to the his new homemade suit and don’t just forget about it.
That whole “only Cassie has a suit” idea is exactly what I expected from the movie, or at the very least some of them not having their suits. They needed to give Cassie a more prominent role. Instead she’s just there to motivate and act as hostage for Scott, which is fine if she had another substantial role beyond “fight the irrelevant side villain and gather the side characters”.
Iron Man 3 does a fantastic job of this! Having an entire action sequence where Tony doesn't have his suit and has to go shopping at Menards to buy supplies was really creative and way more interesting than most Marvel fight scenes
It'd be quite annoying to have a suit up in every single one of these movies. I can't image how many scenes of a suit going on there'd be spread throughout 15-20 movies. You have original antman, ironman, newer spider-man and a reveal of black panther's suit all in a sick reveal. Surely this should be enough to move on from it right?
I'm loving the slander nanotech has been getting recently. I've been feeling this way since I saw Peter randomly save himself during the highway fight with Doc . I hate how easy it was for him. I like to see them struggle
For real. The fight scenes in the MCU Spiderman movies always leave me dissatisfied. It's not as satisfying as tasm or Sam raimi Spiderman. The camera angles are boring. The plot of each MCU Spiderman movie barely peaks my interest that I literally feel like I'm going to vomit (that wasn't an exaggeration). And barely to no hand to hand combat. And peters web slinging and acrobatics is uncreative coupled with the painfully obvious CGI of his suit which they could just use an actual one like tasm and Sam raim Spiderman
At least he dumped the Stark tech at the end of the movie and decided to return to old-school Spidey, with a suit that is truly *his* now and yes, not made of nanotech and yes, not full of secret "modes" and what-not. I'm looking-forward to seeing the new, more traditional Spidey in-action in future movies.
The thing is, it made SENSE for Tony. We got to see the progression of his armors for a decade from the hulking Mark 1, the briefcase suit, Mark 42 which can assemble itself, to the nanosuits. When Tony used the nanosuits, it felt earned and we saw him return to a more mechanical aesthetic in Endgame, bringing everything full circle for his last movie. The Phase 4 nanosuits however have nothing to do with story or character growth and feel more like Marvel just trying to squeeze more out of the already stressed, overworked, and underpaid VFX teams. Why bother making beautiful hand-crafted suits when you can just crunch someone on the computer to do it for you.
@@xombiekat13 You're completely right. It was perfectly okay against Thanos who threatened the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Iron Man needed that kind of power to have a chance. But now that we're back to grounded stories and regular ol' superheroing, it should have died with Tony.
i believe marvel is avoiding doing some basic things because they think people are over it, like linear complete origin stories, or the tech basics, or an extended training for the character powers, but they forget doing the basics offer substance for characters and world building, and skiping the basics because people are tired of seeying the same things will result in poor story and character development, we will notice that something is missing
You don't even have to SHOW the origin story, which is what people are getting tired of for Spider-Man, Superman and Batman. Just reference what their origin stories were (e.g. Peter's selfishness unintentionally got Uncle Ben killed). The Batman also has references and mentions to Bruce's parents having been murdered.
@@EclipsingTNT in my opinion, holland spider only got good as a character after his origin in no way home, and the batman works because it tells the whole origin of the character with the mayor's kid, the origin story carves in the character soul his internal code, for instance, peter always feel responsible to save people cause of the lesson he learns from uncle ben, but without this, the story struggles to make peter responsible, they have to make peter so fucking dumb in the start of every film so he has to solve his own mess and have a responsibilty arc, instead of having a story about actual growth as a character
Having the most inexperienced character of the group being the most capable in a desert island scenario would have made for a more compelling story. And lean more towards that “hand-off” part of the og avengers arc. The conflict builds itself if you let it.
(Posted this on the previous video, but I'm leaving it here for those who are interested in my inane ramblings.) I remember reading an article by Scandinavian studies scholar Helen Damico when researching for a paper in one of my literature courses. Her paper compared the "suit up" or "arming of the hero" scenes in "Beowulf" and the Prose Edda poem "Thrymskvitha", where Beowulf dawns his armor before going to fight Grendel's mother and where Thor, as a possible parody of that kind of typically heroic scene, dawns a wedding dress, respectively. She says that an arming scene “takes on the aura of a ritual and serves to enhance the warrior’s martial virtues and to anticipate his bravery in the forthcoming fight. … As the hero dons his equipment, each item … takes on celestial attributes, and … the hero is transformed from human ordinariness into a state that is superhuman, and at times akin to that of a natural force” (Damico 411). This quote is what came to mind while I was watching this video. Not sure how true it necessarily is in regard to the MCU, but I thought it was interesting.
I don't know about interesting, but if you're going into a superhero movie, you'd want them to have superpowers(Spider Man 2 being the exception). After countless powerless episodes of The Flash, I'm kinda done with superheroes not having superpowers, doesn't appeal to me anymore
@@roberthall4361 I mean. We should make them completely powerless. We should just give them a tough time. And after enough hardships they should rise up. It's a classic storyline but it is never boring. People always cheer up for these scenes. RRR is a perfect example of how you should do a superhero movie (RRR is not a superhero movie though)
@@roberthall4361 Marvel has a lot of powerless super heroes and villains though that are very popular or well known like Hawkeye, Black Widow, the Punisher, Kingpin, Nick Fury. Without their tech Tony Stark, Hank Pym and Scott Lang have no powers either, they just in the case of Pym and Stark have their intelligence.
@@andrewft31 At the end of this video he talks about Scott and Hope not having their suits in the quantum realm and how interesting it would be, I'm not talking about the class of superheroes that dont have powers, rather the kind of storylines in which the ones who do, lose their powers
@@aasamspb967 There's a good number of moments of them taking off their helmets so that the actors have more face time. In fact, everyone spent more time with their helmets off than on. Even though human beings shrunk down smaller than oxygen atoms shouldn't even be able to breathe without their helmets. Wasn't that the whole point of Ant-Man's helmet in the first film to allow him to breathe when he's too small to process the air molecules? How's everyone even breathing in the Quantum Realm? I understand the microorganisms whose species would have adapted to the environment. But Kang, M.O.D.O.K., Scott, Cassie, Hope, Hank and Janet should have had their masks on at all times down there.
@@SeanWheeler100 yeah, that's the thing. They don't have any stakes even after the helmets are off. And I just don't remember them having their helmets off. I don't remember many things from the movie.
It'd be excusable if secret identities were a thing. In Power Rangers, the ranger suits typically indicated the situation had escalated and a power buff was required, which you could probably foresee if you paid attention to how many goons are on screen. But in one of the Dino Thunder episodes the Yellow Ranger (I forgot her name, it's been a while) was ambushed while working on a set and almost morphed before remembering the rolling cameras, thus she had to deal with it handicapped. So even though the suits are always immediately accessible (barring special circumstances) being seen morphing is a big failure condition and the fact it isn't even a possibility in Marvel is laughable.
Hey can someone please explain me one question. In avengers endgame Scott stated 5 hours in quantum realm is 5 years on earth. They have spend days in quantum realm in quantumania. Would that be like so many years on earth when they came back?
If an hour was always a year on Earth, how could the Avengers use the Quantum Realm to travel BACK in time? Time works differently in the Quantum Realm. Scott telling everyone that the five hours he was in the Quantum Realm was five years on Earth was meant to be the key to discovering time travel, not a rule about how time passes. If it really was just scaled units of time, then the Avengers could not have time-travelled from 2023 to 2012, 2013, 2014 or 1970 to get the Infinity Stones. And if the hour = year thing was applied to travelling to the future, Tony and Steve would have had to wait two days and thirteen hours in the Quantum Realm to come back from Camp Lehigh, but they clearly came back faster than that. In fact, every Avenger returned to the present at the exact same time no matter how long they took in those alternate pasts to get what they came for. When Loki stole the Tesseract in 2012, Steve and Tony went to 1970 for the Tesseract and more Pym Particles while Scott took the sceptre to 2023, probably because he wasted so much Pym Particles doing Ant-Man things. But Tony and Steve still arrived in 2023 with Scott. And when Nebula was captured by Thanos after Rhodey left, Thanos sent his Nebula in her place in 2023. That alternate past Nebula arrived at the same time as Rhodey. Also, note the "Time Vortex" that Janet mentioned at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp. Scott was probably trapped in that Time Vortex for five hours/years. And the Avengers used that Time Vortex to time travel. So because the cast of Quantumania weren't near a Time Vortex, it was the same passage of time between the Quantum Realm and Earth. Also, when Janet spent 30 years in the Quantum Realm, she was living in the Quantum Realm for 30 years while gone from Earth for 30 years. Same time. If it was only 30 hours, she wouldn't have grey hair and she wouldn't have time to get to know Kang the Conquerer, Krylar or even establish a backstory for her history in the Quantum Realm if she was only there for a day and six hours. So could you explain to me why you would even think that five years in the Quantum Realm is ALWAYS five years on Earth? You should pay more attention and not take one line in Endgame out of context.
I absolutely agree that it can add an interesting narrative, but then that would quickly feel like the new trope of the movies and for certain movies like quantumania I think there’s already enough high stakes at play that them also having to deal with no suit would become to convoluted also going against the next big bad basically by herself would make even less sense than the movie we already got. I do not think this would have helped this specific movie. Love your videos man keep up the good work!
I was a huge fan of the scene in Civil War where Tony doesn't have armor with him, so he fights Bucky with that little bulletproof flashbang glove. Sometimes it's the small things.
A great example of the suit thing I've seen recently is in Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans. The main character Jim, loses his main weapon and armor before the movie and has to use other means to fight and rely on the other characters. Then at the end he gets his equipment back to stop the villain and it's a big triumphant moment.
Nano suits make sense since Pym would have been able to replicate it base off of the Time Travel suit that Stark Made base off of the Ant Man suit... if anything the Nano suit was Stark + Pym Tech
what makes Iron Man different is that we actually got to see the progression for the suits; they kept getting smaller and quicker as Stark improved his tech
i like it whenever the hero is caught off guard and has to find a way to escape/beat the villain without their super suits, like tony stark needed to invent a suitcase for a transportable suit in iron man 2, imagine how much great scenarios you can do with these problems
I think the fact that you pointed out so many examples of heroes losing their abilities shows that those things have already been done. It's also nice for the writers to not have to rely on the same problems in every film. As you pointed out, they already kinda did it with the Ant Man series, so it might get old if they go back to it again
Basically, if each character's powers and abilities are more limited, some of the other characters will make you FEEL as if though they play an unreplaceable and important role in the story.
One of the things I miss most in newer superhero movies is actual helmets. The physical helmets in older MCU movies are so cool and have so much character that you don’t get with CGI nanotech helmets that can be instantly removed and never stay on for more than a couple minutes.
You single handed make the story much more interesting. It's like these "writers" are afraid of good drama, tension, stakes in those stories. Damn hell!
Holy shit this idea is so bloody great. Someone else in the comments said the others could have gotten their comic accurate suits becauase kang keeps trophies like Red Skull did in the old man logan time line.
The nanosuits unfortunately exist purely for cinematic reasons. Its because they want to film the actors without the suits covering their faces while letting them switch into it at a moments notice. Not a great reason but my point was they never created the nanosuits for a storytelling purpose.
The thing that always bugged me about the nanotech suits from the first moment they appeared in infinity war was that the comics (Iron Man: Believe) had addressed the strengths, and more importantly the weaknesses, of nanotech and why Tony still uses modular suits. They’re versatile but as a result can’t be as good at any one thing. It was a great point and Believe is one of my favourite iron man runs, really pulling from this idea of specialised modular suits.
Think how cool it would be if, in an Ant-Man movie, Scott tore his suit while he was small and got stuck that way for a chunk of the movie. Or, say, to build off your idea, Cassie is the only one with her suit, and at one point Scott asks to put it on so he can do something, and he manages to squeeze into it and shrink down. But then, once he's small, he tears it by moving around in it too much. Then he's stuck as a tiny person until they can manage to get home and get him his original suit. It'd be both a great gag AND a way to heighten tension throughout the film.
I completely agree with this. The whole POINT of Iron Man was that he was wearing a suit, that he had to suit up and had a set of gadgets built in. Now he can just nano himself in a second and pull whatever weapon out of his ass, so it all feels entirely weightless and inconsequential. Like the bits where Tony had to fight without his suit because he didn't have it on? Or he had to carry a suitcase around? Or he had to summon bits of armor to himself in the middle of a fight? Yeah, all that is just gone now.
I understand the point, but it only makes sense that each character has nanotech suits because Stark was constantly trying to improve his technology and Wakanda has advanced tech. Lots of people argue that “realistically” every Avenger should have some sort of Stark or Wakandan armor.
" addition to the visual effects of the film nanotech suits also impede on being able to tell an interesting and high stakes story" What the hell are you talking about?
i agree, only reason why i liked it on iron man is because it was already close to the end of his journey and he already went through the problems of having no suit and stuff that was the point of having the suit come to him in ironman 3 and then later becoming the nanotech thats always on him
as i’ve said in a separate video before, hope owns her dad’s company. with nanotech being introduced and tony dying, a lot of his secrets are going to get out like everyone assumes is going to happen in armor wars. it’s not like EVERYONE is using nanotech
Everyone here should go watch "Please Cripple your characters" (idk if the video is actually called that or not) it points out how MCs losing their main abilities/gear make their character journeys so much more valuable
Didn’t think it was nano tech the way it was shown in the movie, apart from the helmet Thought it was just the pym particles and advancements in the suit up as it didn’t look the same as iron man or black panther
@@Wilderset44569 It was cool the first time we saw it in IW, because we saw Tony's progression on the suits and they integrated the nano particles into the story and the fight against Thanos at the end. And for Black Panther it also makes sense, even though I liked his suit in Civil War more haha
So looking at Phase 5, and from what we've seen in Phase 4... I feel like the only ones that may have nanosuits, to some degree or another, is Guardians of the Galaxy 3(Peter's mask), MAYBE Captain America 4(I don't know how Sam's new suit suits up), and MAYBE Ironheart. All other heroes seem to use low tech outfits, or are so powerful they don't get damaged. Feel free to correct me.
in a franchise with advanced tech that has already been established it makes much more sense for the majority of the heroes to use that technology instead of wearing constricting fabric under their clothing and hoping there's a phone booth nearby to change in.
The Iron Man suit-up sequences are some of the most thrilling moments in those pictures. Then in Infinity War when Tony said "nanotech, you like it?" my heart sank. No more fun suit-up sequences.
You pointed out something I’ve been saying for ages now too! One of the reasons ragnarok works is Thor is limited. To me it’s why we can’t have a great Superman film, cause he easily overpowers everybody and everything
I hear you, but let's be honest with ourselves. Tony Starks nanotech armor was one of my favorite examples of this idea. I was tense during the scene where Tony had to fight Thanos by himself in Infinity War, having to decisively choose between defence and offence as the nano particles in his suit were being used up at a rapid pace. It's kind of crazy that it was a part of Tony's suit that ended up being the weapon that nearly killed him.
Limitations is what makes life much more interesting. Even if in the future someone manages to go over that limit, that's not now and we get to find different ways to work around that limit. It's like having unlimited amount of money, buying anything doesn't bring as much joy as saving up to buy something anymore. Having too much of something makes life so dull and depressing
Also, secret identity shenanigans are completely lost with nanotech suits. Let's think of Daredevil season 3, the fight against Bullseye in the newspaper office. There's Matt just chilling and everything suddenly turns to chaos. He has to grab like a scarf and put it on his head, and also pray no one is looking because he is in his regular clothes. And so the fight is armored bullseye with weapons vs Matt hiding his identity and in regular clothes, so he's at huge disadvantage. Now imagine he just said "no problem", clicked a button in his cane and suddenly nanotech gives him a new Daredevil suit and his batons and now the battlefield is not only leveled, but he has a great advantage. A LOT is lost with stuff like that. Same with other heroes, this was just an example of how damaging it can get to be if we keep goin this way.
I do agree with your point regarding Quantumania, I was for one was hoping for more ingenuity from our leads, HOWEVER you need to remember your audience. Like it or not, these films are aimed at kids and teens, that's their prime demo, that's the group that needs to be appeased, and removing costumes from a sub genre known for costumes can sink your project. Look at the response to Iron Man 3 and BP 2, both films weren't as suit heavy in their first 2 acts and people weren't happy. And having a hero whos power is predicated on his suit like Ant-Man would definitely hold back the potential for large groups of the fandom. It just wouldn't make for the best hero film/blockbuster entertainment.
You could still have the "only Cassie has powers" story with or without the nano tech. The older members could just... not have it on them literally 24/7. And also, about a point in the last video, extended or dramatic suit up scenes probably needed to die once the novelty wore off. Which was probably right around iron man 2 (other than the introduction of nanotech in Infinity war)
Iron man always felt earn compare to the others. One of the biggest hurdle Tony had is getting in the suit when shit just happen, it was always a big point in the movies. So when he finally overcome that issue with Nano suit it felt earn, he figure out and even then The suit can still be broken and he was using half a suit to fight thanos. The suit has a great importance to the story and struggle tony still had with technology. This doesn't happen with anyone who also has nano suit, is just a VFX to put them in the suit, nothing more and nothing less. Its gimmicky. The only one who had trouble with nano suit is Spiderman. He had to use the nano suit to keep doctor octo on his claws so he could not use stark suit to fight, so for the most part is just him and that made it interesting.
Because the suits' ability is to change size, I get being able to carry them around in their pocket, but them being able to instantly patch them on like they did in the last movie felt cheap.
You realise spiderman won't have his nano suit and not everyone has nano suits. Hawkeye, dr strange, ms marvel, the guardians, bucky, u.s agent, hulk, she hulk, dare devil. It's mainly the just thor plus any other hero, minus iron heart, who rely on technology as their main asset.
As I commented in your last video, yes this would make the movie better but would make less sense. Why wouldn't lang and company adopt Nanotech for their suits giving they know how the technology works and have access to it. The end of the day, the realistic way to look at this is of course every Hero would be using this technology, specifically as a precaution in case something like what you're explaining here happens.
Look at how the special effects in transformers age of extinction arrived at transformium, a plot device material that allowed for special effects team to simplify all transforming of the villains in a very nanotech-y way Everywhere you see nanotech or similar in movies it's just a Flanderization of a special effect that was once present in prior films but was simplified to be lazy.
Just because something is simplified doesn't just equate to being lazy. Especially in the context of this video, where we're going from people putting on a costume, to using CGI to make the costume appear on them. Or the Iron Man movies which gradually kept building up to Iron being able to deploy the suit in quicker and more convenient ways over the course of like 7 movies. would argue half the reason you're watching Transformers, is to watch them transform, but in practically else I think there's a point in which you do just want a button that fast forwards through the thing you've seen dozens of times before.
It’s not a nitpick at all. Imagine watching Bruce in the next Batman film slap his chest and suddenly he’s in his bat suit. Not even Schumacher would do something lame like this.
That is why having them win is all for the plot. They won for believing and not working hard to get there. Just like America Chavez, who believed in herself to find a way to beat Wanda - which makes no sense, considering how much time she was given before to use her abilities, to only FINALLY learn to do it during her time with our Dr Strange... (comparing to the previous Strange she encountered). There are no stakes and my hair on the arms and body just won't rise with goosebumps anymore. With Iron man 1 and 2 we were waiting with anticipation for Tony to put on the suit, as he felt so unstoppable with it. And when he finally encountered the bosses at each of those final battles, it felt dire and one grew worried. He still made it, with hard work that he learned along the way without the need of his safety in the suit. Now it's just... believe, you can do it. You have the power all along. Just DO IT. They're already powerful, how about making them EVEN STRONGER. Spider-man IS already very powerful, but his mental and the handicap he put himself through makes him seem less imposing and less likely to actually hurt you, since he's caring and doesn't want to take a life. When he grows angry we feel alienated by his actions, since not only is he suddenly very powerful (thanks to the lack of handicap he put himself in that moment) but also the emotions no longer hold him back with anger blinding his path. All these latest movies so far are empty of actual consequences and character growth. It's almost as if the directors and writers of the movies don't like to make movies about the characters anymore. And yes, they don't care about the characters. They only care for woke-content, money and audiences. They're now an empty husk of what they once were. Problem here is that so many other movies try and copy their "success". Turning all other movies to shreds, like DC did lately. Except for The Batman that just came out. And Puss in Boots 2; the last wish. Those were amazing. Also, character growth isn't supposed to eliminate EVERY fault the hero has. They're supposed to handle a situation better, not suddenly be overpowered and unstoppable. That ruins the whole moment... Just cast aside magic of friendship, and belief in yourself, and who you are bs (Kung fu panda did this good, however. And How to train your Dragon.) So many movies suck nowadays, though. I miss the anticipation of a movie coming out...
I think from a story arch perspective, Pepper Potts would have given them all nanotech suits after endgame. One last gift from Tony. He was the one making the toys and paying for everything. It makes sense that Pepper would continue this legacy.
Then you would hate the movie more and say Scott was sidelined in his own movie because he did not have the suit for most of it, that’s a horrible idea for the ending of a trilogy
Scott getting his suit at the climax of the movie to fight kang would have better. The contrast of a novice fighting vs a veteran would have very satisfying. But he needed to sacrifice himself to save the others to build Kang as a threat. Nothing daring about the movie that was suppose to build up to the next avengers level threat.
@@yourgoing2h8me but still people would have said Scott was sidelined, you can’t make the argument for Thor because he could still take on nearly everyone in that movie except hela without it and it was to show he didn’t need it anymore, just because of one entire scene where nano tech was used you believe he shouldn’t have his suit until the third act, that’s bullshit
@@chibuezedike900 he was already sidelined the way they made him in the story. The biggest issue the movie made was throwing in the daughter as a lead cast. They can tell the story still without him with his suit at first. Remember this is a billion dollar company who can literally hire the best of the best writers and they chose the lame approach
Even if people do consider nanotech suits a nitpick, I'm just plain TIRED of them. They're so boring and unimpressive to look at now. I'm tired of a hero nodding their head and a CGI helmet appearing. The only time it's looked cool recently is Bloodsport's helmet in The Suicide Squad, cos it was an actual physical thing that he could lift off and you could see where it expanded from.
Bloodsport's armor was really cool. The way he the arsenal was stored on his body was so unique and so was when he created his gun by joining pieces while firing at Starro.
@@R1ch4d8 Of course I know that but the way they were fitted on the armor, they weren't individually visible at all maintaining the smooth design of the armor
If this would’ve happened,( what you just said) people would’ve gotten mad because Ant-man doesn’t have a suit. There’s literally nothing they can do to satisfied the “fans” Just enjoy the movie and that’s it. If you don’t like it well, you didn’t like it, that’s it
Totally agree. To me, Iron Man is a completely different character with this deus-ex machina at hand all the time, not to mention Peter Parker. I think they introduce it so that Tony could fight Thanos in a one on one, but I think they sacrificed the essence of his character (that he is just a guy with a high tech gun in his hand). Not a good tradeoff.
I think it's absolutely a fine point that they do rely too much on nanotechnology. We grew up with many shows that had some kind of transformation sequence. Look at sailor moon, beast wars, power rangers, dragonball z all shows we've loved growing up which also explores episodes on how they got by without said transformations. Watching tony's evolution awesome. There's also a point that while the black panther had his nano tech and tony stark had his why wouldnt they want their allies to have the latest tech to fight their best battles. It makes sense from a story point of view because tony would want that for the avengers even while he is not around.
Any of yall played batman arkham... city i think or maybe knight. The one where bruce wayne is captured in some sort of robbery and he has to get away acting like bruce but not showing his abilities and fighting prowess to not seem suspicious. He then has to climb to the top of a building to make it so his suit can be delivered to him via a helicopter dropshipping it to him. another problem with nano tech is that ( and i know its REALLY practical) its ALWAYS on the hero's immediate use. Theres no scenes like the one in spiderman 2 where aunt may and peter are at the bank and doc-ock shows up and peter has to run off and change and aunt may is like "AYO DON'T LEAVE ME HERE?!?!??!" ITS ANOTHER LAYER ON TOP OF THE SUPERHERO GENRE THAT HAS BEEN STRIPT AWAY!!!!! Thats all we're saying.
Do you not think that it would seem weird that Tony wouldn't have helped everyone get these kinds of suits somewhere around the events of infinity/endgame?
We don’t have to have heroes with their suits or full powers ALL the time. But we don’t have to have them without those things ALL the time, either. I LIKED that Iron Man 3 had a whole act where Tony improvised his infiltration of Killian’s hideout. And I LIKED all the improvisations and out-of-suit moments that we had in the Hawkeye series. But it’s not something that Marvel has to do over and over. I think the only part of this which I would nitpick from Quantumania, was that the main characters’ powers never seemed limited. They didn’t run out of Pym Particles, you didn’t see anyone’s inhibitor break in their suit. It would’ve really been good, considering Janet’s backstory which led to this, if maybe Hope or Scott had to make the choice to turn off THEIR inhibitor at a critical moment, and shrink even smaller. But there wasn’t much else I disliked about the movie. I just felt it was tonally all over the place.
It's basically like the Spider-Man web shooters argument where if he had infinite web fluid and never ran out of it we wouldn't have those suspenseful moments where he has to think fast!
Good point, and I agree that there's way too much Nanotech, but not a great example. If Ant-Man didn't have his suit in the Quantum realm, I would've walked out.
I agree with your points. Considering Quantumania is within a grand scheme of things, I'd add that having nano-tech in every superhero also loses their aesthetic and identity. Truth be told, I am glad that Spiderman at the end of NWH became the one we are familiar with. Peter/Spidey relying on his wits without tech has been his trademark all along, something that could relate to your point about Homecoming movie.
Do you remember when Iron Man 3 came out how many people complained that Iron Man was barely in it and it was just a Tony Stark action movie? That same thing would've happened if Scott didn't have an Ant-Man suit in Quantumania and Cassie was the only one with a suit. Even if they didn't go the nanotech route, Scott would have had his suit too. Marvel wouldn't want to get that complaint again, especially when they also just got it with Moon Knight. Not saying I don't agree with your point, because I do understand what you're saying, but I don't think taking the nanotech suits away would have altered Quantumania the way you're imagining.
It made sense for Tony stark because that’s where his story arc was going. After he gave Spider-Man a suit then why not everybody? But I do agree with you even as I rewatch the old infinity saga. Was way cooler to see Tony suit up. I feel a similar way about the multiverse. Nothing matters anymore
It wouldn’t really be an ant man film if he wast able to ant man but I woulda had Scott help Cassie perfect her suit in the quantum realm as a bonding moment sort of thing
Even Tom Holland dislikes the nanosuit stuff. He said he really loves the way damage to a suit tells a story. The way the suit tears in Spider-Man 2 is an example.
"Even Tom Holland dislikes the nanosuit stuff. He said he really loves the way damage to a suit tells a story." Source?
@@EclipsingTNT source -trust me bro
if you look up interviews he literally says he preferred the homemade suit from Homecoming because it felt comfortable and told you much more of a story than the nanosuit. It's easier for him to act in and lets him be more focused on the character. In contrast, he said the lycra suits they use to make it easier for postproduction feel like shit to wear and make it harder to act
@@EclipsingTNT i made the fk up.
@@ApexGale link the interviews
I think if Ant-man and the wasp didn't have their suits, the best way for them to get their suits would be if Kang had keep trinkets from the Avengers he had killed, this could set him up as a more imposing villain at the same time.
It would have been just incredible. I can really imagine that they could have found their costumes but in an accurate comic book version from another universe like Old Loki and his costume
Why is it people like this have far better ideas for these movies than the "professional" writers?
I can see it now. Scott and Hope being forced to break into Kang's "trophy room" to steal alternate versions of the Ant-Man and Wasp suits.
You want fanservice? You got it in the form of a super hero morgue. I pictured Rocket Raccoon's head mounted on the wall and Spider-Man's torn up costume wrapped in webs.
@@dannypalin9583 because they are establishing an ideas that the writers has already produced. Not coming up of ideas on their own.
Plus it makes no sense, Kang got send to Quantum Realm, why on earth would he have his trophies? LMAO
@@dannypalin9583 could also tease future heroes like the xmen while having it be less focused than other cameos. maybe we get a section dedicated to something like the things rock anatomy with half being stone and the other being bone. or maybe we get a section with xmen characters and we get a piece of kangs armor that had been cut by wolverine with the claws still embedded because he tore wolverines arms off.
@@thanos6635
"Kang got send to Quantum Realm"
Yes, but... In the movie he was already sent to quantum realm with his equipment that allowed him to conquer quantum realm... Which was idiotic on it's own, so sending there trophies alongside the equipment, wouldn't change much.
The Iron Man nano suit upgrade fits the best. When he activates it, they took the time to show you how the nanotech is forming the individual pieces on different layers under the armor first. It made sense and looked real. Tony even teased the tech in Civil War with his watch growing into a gauntlet with a pulsar ray.
Right, iron man’s nano tech suit up was always dope af, and made it less time consuming and let heroes always be on Go time, I don’t mind heroes having nano tech, it makes it more easier for them, the only thing I ask is to make the nano tech costume actually look cool like tony mk 85 instead of being over designed, I don’t like marvels recent work, but lmao people are just trying way to hard to hate on anything
Nah, that still looked lame
How did he hide all those masses of armor?
I've always wondered, so is the storage chestpiece he wears just constantly really heavy?
@@natchu96 He no longer has the chest cavity I think after the operation. In comic the nanites are stored in his bones but still does not explain the masses required to create the armor. And yes it must be very heavy to carry inside the body.
If all the suits are nanotech it also raises the question of why no one would make a suit that could do everything. Some shrinking-growing iron man suit with kinetic absorption and insta kill mode.
This is a question that is more obvious now, but has always existed in the MCU. Tony builds lots of Iron Man suits. So why did he never build any for all of the Avengers? Do Captain America and Hulk NEED Iron Man suits? No but they’d greatly benefit from one! Meanwhile Black Widow and Hawkeye are professionally trained agents who’d naturally have an advantage in flying armor. In fact when you start going through everyone who should get an Iron Man suit, ironically the person who ends up being the least qualified to use one is Tony Stark
It really does kinda break the franchise
@@z-beeblebrox Well for one there's no real reason for any of those guys to have Iron Man suits. I'm sure the thing Black Widow of all people really needs to function at her A Game is to be cramped up in a metal suit, or Hawkeye really benefiting from having to shoot arrows while inside of a suit. Tony literally did build Bruce an Iron Man suit, idk how the Hulk specifically is going to get any use out of an Iron Man Suit. He's virtually indestructible and can jump so high he doesn't need to be able to fly.
And isn't the fact that Iron Man is the least qualified to have an Iron Man suit, the reason he's in an Iron Man Suit. His suit is the only think keeping him on par with everyone else.
Like really think about that. This guy needs a metal suit, just to be on PAR with everyone else. Doesn't that say what it needs to say about everyone else not needing one.
You can't just say things for the sake of saying things and treat that as a flaw in the universe. Not a single person you made note of would be benefitted from an Iron Man suit outside of "Human is soft, metal not soft".
You do realize that half of those things listed are things designed by people who specifically keep all their technology to themselves.
Wakanda doesn't have shrinking tech, no one else has readily available vibranium and even if they did, the kinetic absorption into releasing part is still something only Shuri knows how to make use of. And Wakanda does now straight up have Iron Man suits, if they are likewise made out of vibranium (which they aren't in the comics) than they do technically have kinetic absorption, which is just a property of vibranium. We never get a real reason why specifically the black panther suits can hold onto it, but one could infer there's some limitation to how that can be applied .
@@z-beeblebrox I feel like this is something that would have come up offscreen in the time before Civil War, when Stark was going on about his idea of "putting a suit of armor around the world", that he could just give everyone else Iron Man suits, too, and they would be even stronger. But everyone just rejected this idea like they rejected him in other ways. Especially Cap. You'd have to drag him kicking and screaming into a suit made by Stark.
My peeve with nano technology is that they use it as an excuse to constantly show actors faces, instead of allowing them act fully masked. This wasn't an issue in early Phases of the MCU; you could still "feel" Tony's expressions through the mask. The Mandalorian and V For Vendetta are prime examples of how you can make a fully masked hero show feel expressive even when their faces barely, if ever, appear on screen.
You say wasn't an issue in early phrases as if the MCU didn't invent an entire new filming technique specifically to show people's faces while they're inside an Iron Man suit.
Or modern Spiderman where their main suits are able to emote with dynamic eyes.
If there's nothing wrong with having a masked character act, than why is there something wrong with having them act, without a mask. That's just a weird thing to complain about. The point of masks are to conceal identity, the second that's not needed in the story, any one of these superhero or superhero adjacent stories, the mask goes off as often as it needs to.
@@Whispernyanthe issue is that they have them showing their faces at every point in the movie for no reason. They even have them show their faces at points where it wouldnt make sense. It doesnt feel genuin, what about that do you not understand????
batman as a whole dude, he keeps his mask most of the times even when he's at the cave, he only takes the mask off when he disguises himself as bruce wayne
I'd say an example too would be deadpool. Yeah you see his face in the movie but most of the time he is masked and yet you kinda vibe with him. I feel that is a way to do it
@@Whispernyan It's not weird actually it's a legitimate criticism, even the part where they show faces inside the suit is annoying already. They even have Michael Keaton do the same technique as Vulture. So what more of this nanotech gibberish to have an excuse of showing the actor's faces every second.
I really liked suits that looked and felt physical and grounded.
The iron man suit ups were absolutely fantastic. You could see each individual bearing plate move around, interlocking. It made it feal incredibly real.
I absolutely hate what they did to the iron heart suit. She looked like she jumped right out of an anime.
I just hope for future stuff we get to see some more stuff that looks and acts like they exist in the real world.
iron heart? is that a thing now?
I was gonna say Kingdom Hearts BBS. lol
I thought it looked like a power ranger ripoff.
@@dmy_tro Yeah she's getting her own movie.
@@dmy_tro Been a thing for awhile
I also like when heroes with secret identities have to worry about where to change into their costume. And also you get cool iconic moments with physical masks/helmets, like when Tchalla puts down his helmet in the snow before confronting Zemo.
The Same Raimi Spider-Man trilogy ruled over my childhood, and I remember creating drawings of Spider-Man with his suit all ripped up, bloody, and defeated. Over and over again. My parents probably thought I was messed up in the head for drawing bloody Spider-Man all the time, but from my eyes, I saw it as my favorite hero never giving up against his evil opponents, no matter how defeated he already is.
It just wouldn’t be the same if Spider-Man can just build a new nano-tech suit in his basement anytime he wants. Which is why I’m excited for the future of Spider-Man in the MCU, if they hold true to the his new homemade suit and don’t just forget about it.
That whole “only Cassie has a suit” idea is exactly what I expected from the movie, or at the very least some of them not having their suits. They needed to give Cassie a more prominent role. Instead she’s just there to motivate and act as hostage for Scott, which is fine if she had another substantial role beyond “fight the irrelevant side villain and gather the side characters”.
Cast bloat
@@bunnywithakeyboard7628 Damn. I never knew there was a term for it.
@@cgates2 TVTropes has a term for pretty much anything
Iron Man 3 does a fantastic job of this! Having an entire action sequence where Tony doesn't have his suit and has to go shopping at Menards to buy supplies was really creative and way more interesting than most Marvel fight scenes
Suitups used to be a cinematic experience
They kinda still are.
@@dylansharp8471 not really. They're not cinematic anymore. The new ones sucks.
It'd be quite annoying to have a suit up in every single one of these movies. I can't image how many scenes of a suit going on there'd be spread throughout 15-20 movies. You have original antman, ironman, newer spider-man and a reveal of black panther's suit all in a sick reveal. Surely this should be enough to move on from it right?
now its just "taps chest."
OK IM READY :D
“If you’re nothing without this suit then you shouldn’t have it”
I'm loving the slander nanotech has been getting recently. I've been feeling this way since I saw Peter randomly save himself during the highway fight with Doc . I hate how easy it was for him. I like to see them struggle
For real. The fight scenes in the MCU Spiderman movies always leave me dissatisfied. It's not as satisfying as tasm or Sam raimi Spiderman.
The camera angles are boring. The plot of each MCU Spiderman movie barely peaks my interest that I literally feel like I'm going to vomit (that wasn't an exaggeration). And barely to no hand to hand combat. And peters web slinging and acrobatics is uncreative coupled with the painfully obvious CGI of his suit which they could just use an actual one like tasm and Sam raim Spiderman
at least in defense for the movie, peter did lose the suit pretty much after that
@@Random_dud31 let's hope to God they won't change it every movie
Easy? He was definitely dead if doc felt like it
At least he dumped the Stark tech at the end of the movie and decided to return to old-school Spidey, with a suit that is truly *his* now and yes, not made of nanotech and yes, not full of secret "modes" and what-not. I'm looking-forward to seeing the new, more traditional Spidey in-action in future movies.
The thing is, it made SENSE for Tony. We got to see the progression of his armors for a decade from the hulking Mark 1, the briefcase suit, Mark 42 which can assemble itself, to the nanosuits. When Tony used the nanosuits, it felt earned and we saw him return to a more mechanical aesthetic in Endgame, bringing everything full circle for his last movie. The Phase 4 nanosuits however have nothing to do with story or character growth and feel more like Marvel just trying to squeeze more out of the already stressed, overworked, and underpaid VFX teams. Why bother making beautiful hand-crafted suits when you can just crunch someone on the computer to do it for you.
@@xombiekat13 You're completely right. It was perfectly okay against Thanos who threatened the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Iron Man needed that kind of power to have a chance. But now that we're back to grounded stories and regular ol' superheroing, it should have died with Tony.
Very good point. There's an earned progression to Tony's use of nanotechnology.
i believe marvel is avoiding doing some basic things because they think people are over it, like linear complete origin stories, or the tech basics, or an extended training for the character powers, but they forget doing the basics offer substance for characters and world building, and skiping the basics because people are tired of seeying the same things will result in poor story and character development, we will notice that something is missing
"but they forget doing the basics offer substance for characters and world building"
Did they forget tho?
Pu-lease.
@@dylansharp8471 Nope they didn't. They just didn't care.
You don't even have to SHOW the origin story, which is what people are getting tired of for Spider-Man, Superman and Batman. Just reference what their origin stories were (e.g. Peter's selfishness unintentionally got Uncle Ben killed). The Batman also has references and mentions to Bruce's parents having been murdered.
@@EclipsingTNT in my opinion, holland spider only got good as a character after his origin in no way home, and the batman works because it tells the whole origin of the character with the mayor's kid, the origin story carves in the character soul his internal code, for instance, peter always feel responsible to save people cause of the lesson he learns from uncle ben, but without this, the story struggles to make peter responsible, they have to make peter so fucking dumb in the start of every film so he has to solve his own mess and have a responsibilty arc, instead of having a story about actual growth as a character
Having the most inexperienced character of the group being the most capable in a desert island scenario would have made for a more compelling story. And lean more towards that “hand-off” part of the og avengers arc. The conflict builds itself if you let it.
That weightless bouncey run cycle gets me every time, fucking hilarious
remmeber 200 millon budget
I hate Nano suits too. Some yes, everyone no.
"Some yes, everyone no"
What now?
exactly, i hate all of the nanosuits, but i love all of them except iron spider
@@azanamir234
You're sending mixed signals.
(Posted this on the previous video, but I'm leaving it here for those who are interested in my inane ramblings.)
I remember reading an article by Scandinavian studies scholar Helen Damico when researching for a paper in one of my literature courses. Her paper compared the "suit up" or "arming of the hero" scenes in "Beowulf" and the Prose Edda poem "Thrymskvitha", where Beowulf dawns his armor before going to fight Grendel's mother and where Thor, as a possible parody of that kind of typically heroic scene, dawns a wedding dress, respectively. She says that an arming scene “takes on the aura of a ritual and serves to enhance the warrior’s martial virtues and to anticipate his bravery in the forthcoming fight. … As the hero dons his equipment, each item … takes on celestial attributes, and … the hero is transformed from human ordinariness into a state that is superhuman, and at times akin to that of a natural force” (Damico 411).
This quote is what came to mind while I was watching this video. Not sure how true it necessarily is in regard to the MCU, but I thought it was interesting.
Would be a great excuse for Ant-Man not to turn giant. In the movie, it is literally because no one has suggested it to him to that point.
I don't know about interesting, but if you're going into a superhero movie, you'd want them to have superpowers(Spider Man 2 being the exception). After countless powerless episodes of The Flash, I'm kinda done with superheroes not having superpowers, doesn't appeal to me anymore
But not having powers may also mean they have the courage and such to stand up for what's right.
@@roberthall4361 I mean. We should make them completely powerless. We should just give them a tough time. And after enough hardships they should rise up. It's a classic storyline but it is never boring. People always cheer up for these scenes.
RRR is a perfect example of how you should do a superhero movie (RRR is not a superhero movie though)
@@roberthall4361 Marvel has a lot of powerless super heroes and villains though that are very popular or well known like Hawkeye, Black Widow, the Punisher, Kingpin, Nick Fury. Without their tech Tony Stark, Hank Pym and Scott Lang have no powers either, they just in the case of Pym and Stark have their intelligence.
@@andrewft31 At the end of this video he talks about Scott and Hope not having their suits in the quantum realm and how interesting it would be, I'm not talking about the class of superheroes that dont have powers, rather the kind of storylines in which the ones who do, lose their powers
And getting rid of the physical helmet. Stakes are raised when they lose it.
Pretty sure there's a good number of moments of them loosing the helmet. Haven't seen Quantumania yet, but I'm guessing there is.
@@dylansharp8471 highly unlikely. I mean I watched it but doesn't remember a thing unless they show me some clips.
@@aasamspb967 There's a good number of moments of them taking off their helmets so that the actors have more face time. In fact, everyone spent more time with their helmets off than on. Even though human beings shrunk down smaller than oxygen atoms shouldn't even be able to breathe without their helmets. Wasn't that the whole point of Ant-Man's helmet in the first film to allow him to breathe when he's too small to process the air molecules? How's everyone even breathing in the Quantum Realm? I understand the microorganisms whose species would have adapted to the environment. But Kang, M.O.D.O.K., Scott, Cassie, Hope, Hank and Janet should have had their masks on at all times down there.
@@SeanWheeler100 yeah, that's the thing. They don't have any stakes even after the helmets are off.
And I just don't remember them having their helmets off. I don't remember many things from the movie.
@@aasamspb967 Kang even breaks Scotts helmet during their battle at the end before Hope saves Scott.
It'd be excusable if secret identities were a thing. In Power Rangers, the ranger suits typically indicated the situation had escalated and a power buff was required, which you could probably foresee if you paid attention to how many goons are on screen. But in one of the Dino Thunder episodes the Yellow Ranger (I forgot her name, it's been a while) was ambushed while working on a set and almost morphed before remembering the rolling cameras, thus she had to deal with it handicapped. So even though the suits are always immediately accessible (barring special circumstances) being seen morphing is a big failure condition and the fact it isn't even a possibility in Marvel is laughable.
Hey can someone please explain me one question.
In avengers endgame Scott stated 5 hours in quantum realm is 5 years on earth.
They have spend days in quantum realm in quantumania.
Would that be like so many years on earth when they came back?
If an hour was always a year on Earth, how could the Avengers use the Quantum Realm to travel BACK in time?
Time works differently in the Quantum Realm. Scott telling everyone that the five hours he was in the Quantum Realm was five years on Earth was meant to be the key to discovering time travel, not a rule about how time passes. If it really was just scaled units of time, then the Avengers could not have time-travelled from 2023 to 2012, 2013, 2014 or 1970 to get the Infinity Stones. And if the hour = year thing was applied to travelling to the future, Tony and Steve would have had to wait two days and thirteen hours in the Quantum Realm to come back from Camp Lehigh, but they clearly came back faster than that. In fact, every Avenger returned to the present at the exact same time no matter how long they took in those alternate pasts to get what they came for. When Loki stole the Tesseract in 2012, Steve and Tony went to 1970 for the Tesseract and more Pym Particles while Scott took the sceptre to 2023, probably because he wasted so much Pym Particles doing Ant-Man things. But Tony and Steve still arrived in 2023 with Scott. And when Nebula was captured by Thanos after Rhodey left, Thanos sent his Nebula in her place in 2023. That alternate past Nebula arrived at the same time as Rhodey.
Also, note the "Time Vortex" that Janet mentioned at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp. Scott was probably trapped in that Time Vortex for five hours/years. And the Avengers used that Time Vortex to time travel. So because the cast of Quantumania weren't near a Time Vortex, it was the same passage of time between the Quantum Realm and Earth. Also, when Janet spent 30 years in the Quantum Realm, she was living in the Quantum Realm for 30 years while gone from Earth for 30 years. Same time. If it was only 30 hours, she wouldn't have grey hair and she wouldn't have time to get to know Kang the Conquerer, Krylar or even establish a backstory for her history in the Quantum Realm if she was only there for a day and six hours.
So could you explain to me why you would even think that five years in the Quantum Realm is ALWAYS five years on Earth? You should pay more attention and not take one line in Endgame out of context.
I absolutely agree that it can add an interesting narrative, but then that would quickly feel like the new trope of the movies and for certain movies like quantumania I think there’s already enough high stakes at play that them also having to deal with no suit would become to convoluted also going against the next big bad basically by herself would make even less sense than the movie we already got. I do not think this would have helped this specific movie. Love your videos man keep up the good work!
The stakes in quatumania were already really low with the empty threats, adding their suits on top of it made things much worse
I was a huge fan of the scene in Civil War where Tony doesn't have armor with him, so he fights Bucky with that little bulletproof flashbang glove. Sometimes it's the small things.
A great example of the suit thing I've seen recently is in Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans. The main character Jim, loses his main weapon and armor before the movie and has to use other means to fight and rely on the other characters. Then at the end he gets his equipment back to stop the villain and it's a big triumphant moment.
"Giving characters limitations makes their journey much more interesting." Well said.
Nano suits make sense since Pym would have been able to replicate it base off of the Time Travel suit that Stark Made base off of the Ant Man suit... if anything the Nano suit was Stark + Pym Tech
The nantotech helmet for Star Lord though that wraps around just is head is like the coolest bit of costume design in the whole MCU.
what makes Iron Man different is that we actually got to see the progression for the suits; they kept getting smaller and quicker as Stark improved his tech
i like it whenever the hero is caught off guard and has to find a way to escape/beat the villain without their super suits, like tony stark needed to invent a suitcase for a transportable suit in iron man 2, imagine how much great scenarios you can do with these problems
"Honey~! Where's my supersuit~!?"
"Nanotech now, it's in your watch"
I think the fact that you pointed out so many examples of heroes losing their abilities shows that those things have already been done. It's also nice for the writers to not have to rely on the same problems in every film. As you pointed out, they already kinda did it with the Ant Man series, so it might get old if they go back to it again
Basically, if each character's powers and abilities are more limited, some of the other characters will make you FEEL as if though they play an unreplaceable and important role in the story.
Bruce not able to become the Hulk was.. **in Dwayne Johnson’s voice** “is the biggest piece of dog shit”
One of the things I miss most in newer superhero movies is actual helmets. The physical helmets in older MCU movies are so cool and have so much character that you don’t get with CGI nanotech helmets that can be instantly removed and never stay on for more than a couple minutes.
You single handed make the story much more interesting. It's like these "writers" are afraid of good drama, tension, stakes in those stories. Damn hell!
Holy shit this idea is so bloody great. Someone else in the comments said the others could have gotten their comic accurate suits becauase kang keeps trophies like Red Skull did in the old man logan time line.
The nanosuits unfortunately exist purely for cinematic reasons. Its because they want to film the actors without the suits covering their faces while letting them switch into it at a moments notice. Not a great reason but my point was they never created the nanosuits for a storytelling purpose.
Nanotech looks like it just became another way the studio can save on money with special effects.
they definitely need to add more practical effects for the suits. it won't fix the movies, sure, but it would add that freshness of the first phases.
The thing that always bugged me about the nanotech suits from the first moment they appeared in infinity war was that the comics (Iron Man: Believe) had addressed the strengths, and more importantly the weaknesses, of nanotech and why Tony still uses modular suits. They’re versatile but as a result can’t be as good at any one thing. It was a great point and Believe is one of my favourite iron man runs, really pulling from this idea of specialised modular suits.
Ironman putting on his suit was always a hype moment in his movies. With the nanotech that excitement was over.
Think how cool it would be if, in an Ant-Man movie, Scott tore his suit while he was small and got stuck that way for a chunk of the movie.
Or, say, to build off your idea, Cassie is the only one with her suit, and at one point Scott asks to put it on so he can do something, and he manages to squeeze into it and shrink down.
But then, once he's small, he tears it by moving around in it too much. Then he's stuck as a tiny person until they can manage to get home and get him his original suit. It'd be both a great gag AND a way to heighten tension throughout the film.
I completely agree with this. The whole POINT of Iron Man was that he was wearing a suit, that he had to suit up and had a set of gadgets built in. Now he can just nano himself in a second and pull whatever weapon out of his ass, so it all feels entirely weightless and inconsequential.
Like the bits where Tony had to fight without his suit because he didn't have it on? Or he had to carry a suitcase around? Or he had to summon bits of armor to himself in the middle of a fight? Yeah, all that is just gone now.
I agree on this on so many levels
I understand the point, but it only makes sense that each character has nanotech suits because Stark was constantly trying to improve his technology and Wakanda has advanced tech. Lots of people argue that “realistically” every Avenger should have some sort of Stark or Wakandan armor.
" addition to the visual effects of the film nanotech suits also impede on being able to tell an interesting and high stakes story"
What the hell are you talking about?
Bro, Quantumania needs a whole ass, top to bottom, fix. Not just on the suit.
Short and succinct. Videos like these should be pushed up way more in the algorithm.
Agreed. Nanotech suits seem like just one more corner they decided to cut in a cinematic universe that’s almost round by this point
i agree, only reason why i liked it on iron man is because it was already close to the end of his journey and he already went through the problems of having no suit and stuff that was the point of having the suit come to him in ironman 3 and then later becoming the nanotech thats always on him
as i’ve said in a separate video before, hope owns her dad’s company. with nanotech being introduced and tony dying, a lot of his secrets are going to get out like everyone assumes is going to happen in armor wars. it’s not like EVERYONE is using nanotech
aparently STARK inds,,was seized by the goverment
Everyone here should go watch "Please Cripple your characters" (idk if the video is actually called that or not) it points out how MCs losing their main abilities/gear make their character journeys so much more valuable
Didn’t think it was nano tech the way it was shown in the movie, apart from the helmet
Thought it was just the pym particles and advancements in the suit up as it didn’t look the same as iron man or black panther
Doesn't matter. It Doesn't change the fact, that it is still lazy CGI comstumes.
@@DickePerserkatze 100% agree, since it’s the norm now people will moan when it ain’t cgi cause they want something flashy
@@Wilderset44569 It was cool the first time we saw it in IW, because we saw Tony's progression on the suits and they integrated the nano particles into the story and the fight against Thanos at the end. And for Black Panther it also makes sense, even though I liked his suit in Civil War more haha
You’re absolutely right. Tony not having access to his suit was an essential plot point of Iron Man 3
So looking at Phase 5, and from what we've seen in Phase 4... I feel like the only ones that may have nanosuits, to some degree or another, is Guardians of the Galaxy 3(Peter's mask), MAYBE Captain America 4(I don't know how Sam's new suit suits up), and MAYBE Ironheart. All other heroes seem to use low tech outfits, or are so powerful they don't get damaged. Feel free to correct me.
in a franchise with advanced tech that has already been established it makes much more sense for the majority of the heroes to use that technology instead of wearing constricting fabric under their clothing and hoping there's a phone booth nearby to change in.
Your idea for quantumania was miles better than Quantumania itself..
The Iron Man suit-up sequences are some of the most thrilling moments in those pictures. Then in Infinity War when Tony said "nanotech, you like it?" my heart sank. No more fun suit-up sequences.
You pointed out something I’ve been saying for ages now too! One of the reasons ragnarok works is Thor is limited. To me it’s why we can’t have a great Superman film, cause he easily overpowers everybody and everything
I hear you, but let's be honest with ourselves. Tony Starks nanotech armor was one of my favorite examples of this idea.
I was tense during the scene where Tony had to fight Thanos by himself in Infinity War, having to decisively choose between defence and offence as the nano particles in his suit were being used up at a rapid pace.
It's kind of crazy that it was a part of Tony's suit that ended up being the weapon that nearly killed him.
Limitations is what makes life much more interesting. Even if in the future someone manages to go over that limit, that's not now and we get to find different ways to work around that limit.
It's like having unlimited amount of money, buying anything doesn't bring as much joy as saving up to buy something anymore. Having too much of something makes life so dull and depressing
Also, secret identity shenanigans are completely lost with nanotech suits. Let's think of Daredevil season 3, the fight against Bullseye in the newspaper office. There's Matt just chilling and everything suddenly turns to chaos. He has to grab like a scarf and put it on his head, and also pray no one is looking because he is in his regular clothes. And so the fight is armored bullseye with weapons vs Matt hiding his identity and in regular clothes, so he's at huge disadvantage.
Now imagine he just said "no problem", clicked a button in his cane and suddenly nanotech gives him a new Daredevil suit and his batons and now the battlefield is not only leveled, but he has a great advantage. A LOT is lost with stuff like that. Same with other heroes, this was just an example of how damaging it can get to be if we keep goin this way.
I do agree with your point regarding Quantumania, I was for one was hoping for more ingenuity from our leads, HOWEVER you need to remember your audience. Like it or not, these films are aimed at kids and teens, that's their prime demo, that's the group that needs to be appeased, and removing costumes from a sub genre known for costumes can sink your project. Look at the response to Iron Man 3 and BP 2, both films weren't as suit heavy in their first 2 acts and people weren't happy. And having a hero whos power is predicated on his suit like Ant-Man would definitely hold back the potential for large groups of the fandom. It just wouldn't make for the best hero film/blockbuster entertainment.
You could still have the "only Cassie has powers" story with or without the nano tech. The older members could just... not have it on them literally 24/7.
And also, about a point in the last video, extended or dramatic suit up scenes probably needed to die once the novelty wore off. Which was probably right around iron man 2 (other than the introduction of nanotech in Infinity war)
Iron man always felt earn compare to the others. One of the biggest hurdle Tony had is getting in the suit when shit just happen, it was always a big point in the movies. So when he finally overcome that issue with Nano suit it felt earn, he figure out and even then The suit can still be broken and he was using half a suit to fight thanos. The suit has a great importance to the story and struggle tony still had with technology.
This doesn't happen with anyone who also has nano suit, is just a VFX to put them in the suit, nothing more and nothing less. Its gimmicky.
The only one who had trouble with nano suit is Spiderman. He had to use the nano suit to keep doctor octo on his claws so he could not use stark suit to fight, so for the most part is just him and that made it interesting.
Because the suits' ability is to change size, I get being able to carry them around in their pocket, but them being able to instantly patch them on like they did in the last movie felt cheap.
if they had to rely on weak suits then they wouldn't be able to fight super-super villains
You realise spiderman won't have his nano suit and not everyone has nano suits. Hawkeye, dr strange, ms marvel, the guardians, bucky, u.s agent, hulk, she hulk, dare devil.
It's mainly the just thor plus any other hero, minus iron heart, who rely on technology as their main asset.
As I commented in your last video, yes this would make the movie better but would make less sense. Why wouldn't lang and company adopt Nanotech for their suits giving they know how the technology works and have access to it. The end of the day, the realistic way to look at this is of course every Hero would be using this technology, specifically as a precaution in case something like what you're explaining here happens.
It’s like everyone has a symbiote with none of its disadvantages.
Look at how the special effects in transformers age of extinction arrived at transformium, a plot device material that allowed for special effects team to simplify all transforming of the villains in a very nanotech-y way
Everywhere you see nanotech or similar in movies it's just a Flanderization of a special effect that was once present in prior films but was simplified to be lazy.
Just because something is simplified doesn't just equate to being lazy. Especially in the context of this video, where we're going from people putting on a costume, to using CGI to make the costume appear on them. Or the Iron Man movies which gradually kept building up to Iron being able to deploy the suit in quicker and more convenient ways over the course of like 7 movies. would argue half the reason you're watching Transformers, is to watch them transform, but in practically else I think there's a point in which you do just want a button that fast forwards through the thing you've seen dozens of times before.
It’s not a nitpick at all. Imagine watching Bruce in the next Batman film slap his chest and suddenly he’s in his bat suit. Not even Schumacher would do something lame like this.
Superman been wearing his costume under his clothes for 80 years and nobody even bats an eye
That is why having them win is all for the plot. They won for believing and not working hard to get there. Just like America Chavez, who believed in herself to find a way to beat Wanda - which makes no sense, considering how much time she was given before to use her abilities, to only FINALLY learn to do it during her time with our Dr Strange... (comparing to the previous Strange she encountered).
There are no stakes and my hair on the arms and body just won't rise with goosebumps anymore. With Iron man 1 and 2 we were waiting with anticipation for Tony to put on the suit, as he felt so unstoppable with it. And when he finally encountered the bosses at each of those final battles, it felt dire and one grew worried. He still made it, with hard work that he learned along the way without the need of his safety in the suit.
Now it's just... believe, you can do it. You have the power all along. Just DO IT. They're already powerful, how about making them EVEN STRONGER. Spider-man IS already very powerful, but his mental and the handicap he put himself through makes him seem less imposing and less likely to actually hurt you, since he's caring and doesn't want to take a life. When he grows angry we feel alienated by his actions, since not only is he suddenly very powerful (thanks to the lack of handicap he put himself in that moment) but also the emotions no longer hold him back with anger blinding his path.
All these latest movies so far are empty of actual consequences and character growth. It's almost as if the directors and writers of the movies don't like to make movies about the characters anymore. And yes, they don't care about the characters. They only care for woke-content, money and audiences. They're now an empty husk of what they once were. Problem here is that so many other movies try and copy their "success". Turning all other movies to shreds, like DC did lately. Except for The Batman that just came out. And Puss in Boots 2; the last wish. Those were amazing.
Also, character growth isn't supposed to eliminate EVERY fault the hero has. They're supposed to handle a situation better, not suddenly be overpowered and unstoppable. That ruins the whole moment... Just cast aside magic of friendship, and belief in yourself, and who you are bs (Kung fu panda did this good, however. And How to train your Dragon.)
So many movies suck nowadays, though. I miss the anticipation of a movie coming out...
HOME RESONANCE HITS DIFFERENT
I think from a story arch perspective, Pepper Potts would have given them all nanotech suits after endgame. One last gift from Tony. He was the one making the toys and paying for everything. It makes sense that Pepper would continue this legacy.
After all they already had nanotech suits from the time heist. Think they all just gave it back?
Then you would hate the movie more and say Scott was sidelined in his own movie because he did not have the suit for most of it, that’s a horrible idea for the ending of a trilogy
Scott getting his suit at the climax of the movie to fight kang would have better. The contrast of a novice fighting vs a veteran would have very satisfying. But he needed to sacrifice himself to save the others to build Kang as a threat. Nothing daring about the movie that was suppose to build up to the next avengers level threat.
@@yourgoing2h8me but still people would have said Scott was sidelined, you can’t make the argument for Thor because he could still take on nearly everyone in that movie except hela without it and it was to show he didn’t need it anymore, just because of one entire scene where nano tech was used you believe he shouldn’t have his suit until the third act, that’s bullshit
@@chibuezedike900 he was already sidelined the way they made him in the story. The biggest issue the movie made was throwing in the daughter as a lead cast. They can tell the story still without him with his suit at first. Remember this is a billion dollar company who can literally hire the best of the best writers and they chose the lame approach
Not to mention suit up scenes are cool, and the only time a nanotech suit up wasn't boring was when Ironman did it.
If Doctor Doom’s face is nanotechnology in the new Fantastic Four *I will rip my head off*
Even if people do consider nanotech suits a nitpick, I'm just plain TIRED of them. They're so boring and unimpressive to look at now. I'm tired of a hero nodding their head and a CGI helmet appearing.
The only time it's looked cool recently is Bloodsport's helmet in The Suicide Squad, cos it was an actual physical thing that he could lift off and you could see where it expanded from.
Bloodsport's armor was really cool. The way he the arsenal was stored on his body was so unique and so was when he created his gun by joining pieces while firing at Starro.
@@GenisysPrime Exactly. He actually had places on his outfit that he could take weapons from. They didn't just appear out of nowhere.
@@R1ch4d8 Of course I know that but the way they were fitted on the armor, they weren't individually visible at all maintaining the smooth design of the armor
If this would’ve happened,( what you just said) people would’ve gotten mad because Ant-man doesn’t have a suit. There’s literally nothing they can do to satisfied the “fans”
Just enjoy the movie and that’s it.
If you don’t like it well, you didn’t like it, that’s it
Thank you 🙏🏾 somebody pointed it out 🤦🏾♂️
Ironic how iron man introduced the nano suit and yet ironman 3 was a great example of Tony kicking ass without the suit
Totally agree. To me, Iron Man is a completely different character with this deus-ex machina at hand all the time, not to mention Peter Parker.
I think they introduce it so that Tony could fight Thanos in a one on one, but I think they sacrificed the essence of his character (that he is just a guy with a high tech gun in his hand). Not a good tradeoff.
I think it's absolutely a fine point that they do rely too much on nanotechnology. We grew up with many shows that had some kind of transformation sequence. Look at sailor moon, beast wars, power rangers, dragonball z all shows we've loved growing up which also explores episodes on how they got by without said transformations. Watching tony's evolution awesome. There's also a point that while the black panther had his nano tech and tony stark had his why wouldnt they want their allies to have the latest tech to fight their best battles. It makes sense from a story point of view because tony would want that for the avengers even while he is not around.
The instant I clicked and heard the music I realized whose channel this was related to.
Any of yall played batman arkham... city i think or maybe knight. The one where bruce wayne is captured in some sort of robbery and he has to get away acting like bruce but not showing his abilities and fighting prowess to not seem suspicious. He then has to climb to the top of a building to make it so his suit can be delivered to him via a helicopter dropshipping it to him.
another problem with nano tech is that ( and i know its REALLY practical) its ALWAYS on the hero's immediate use. Theres no scenes like the one in spiderman 2 where aunt may and peter are at the bank and doc-ock shows up and peter has to run off and change and aunt may is like "AYO DON'T LEAVE ME HERE?!?!??!"
ITS ANOTHER LAYER ON TOP OF THE SUPERHERO GENRE THAT HAS BEEN STRIPT AWAY!!!!!
Thats all we're saying.
Do you not think that it would seem weird that Tony wouldn't have helped everyone get these kinds of suits somewhere around the events of infinity/endgame?
We don’t have to have heroes with their suits or full powers ALL the time. But we don’t have to have them without those things ALL the time, either. I LIKED that Iron Man 3 had a whole act where Tony improvised his infiltration of Killian’s hideout. And I LIKED all the improvisations and out-of-suit moments that we had in the Hawkeye series. But it’s not something that Marvel has to do over and over.
I think the only part of this which I would nitpick from Quantumania, was that the main characters’ powers never seemed limited. They didn’t run out of Pym Particles, you didn’t see anyone’s inhibitor break in their suit. It would’ve really been good, considering Janet’s backstory which led to this, if maybe Hope or Scott had to make the choice to turn off THEIR inhibitor at a critical moment, and shrink even smaller. But there wasn’t much else I disliked about the movie. I just felt it was tonally all over the place.
Making a character too powerful is always a mistake, and hard to relate to anymore
It's basically like the Spider-Man web shooters argument where if he had infinite web fluid and never ran out of it we wouldn't have those suspenseful moments where he has to think fast!
Also makes me wonder why they don't just make grey goo clouds that just dismantle their enemies weapons.
Good point, and I agree that there's way too much Nanotech, but not a great example. If Ant-Man didn't have his suit in the Quantum realm, I would've walked out.
Could have literally pulled it outta his pocket
@@RX-93-2 Yeah but that’s not what he said in the video. But you’re right it was more fascinating when he shrunk it down and held onto it.
@TheInkTank the audio was glitched so I was just reading comments
I agree with your points. Considering Quantumania is within a grand scheme of things, I'd add that having nano-tech in every superhero also loses their aesthetic and identity. Truth be told, I am glad that Spiderman at the end of NWH became the one we are familiar with. Peter/Spidey relying on his wits without tech has been his trademark all along, something that could relate to your point about Homecoming movie.
Do you remember when Iron Man 3 came out how many people complained that Iron Man was barely in it and it was just a Tony Stark action movie? That same thing would've happened if Scott didn't have an Ant-Man suit in Quantumania and Cassie was the only one with a suit. Even if they didn't go the nanotech route, Scott would have had his suit too. Marvel wouldn't want to get that complaint again, especially when they also just got it with Moon Knight.
Not saying I don't agree with your point, because I do understand what you're saying, but I don't think taking the nanotech suits away would have altered Quantumania the way you're imagining.
It made sense for Tony stark because that’s where his story arc was going. After he gave Spider-Man a suit then why not everybody? But I do agree with you even as I rewatch the old infinity saga. Was way cooler to see Tony suit up.
I feel a similar way about the multiverse. Nothing matters anymore
Thank you for making your videos so straight to the point 🙌
It wouldn’t really be an ant man film if he wast able to ant man but I woulda had Scott help Cassie perfect her suit in the quantum realm as a bonding moment sort of thing