"I owned the book and just didn't realize it" same thing happened to me! My mom gave me the original trilogy a few years ago but at the time I was not in the mood to read a book. Then a few months ago my friend asked if I'd ever heard of/read Red Rising. And i was like, "hang on, I think I own those" and dug them out. as soon as he told me the series knocked Harry Potter out of his top 3, I instantly started reading them. now almost done with the 5th book.
No matter how much real traction this game will get in the hobby, it definitely felt like a lot of board gamers read Red Rising in preparation for this game (including myself). That part I find is pretty cool.
Was surprised they didn't talk about how Orange cards mitigate having to get specific named characters and Grey cards help with scoring conditions that require different colors. Really like the tactical nature of the game.
For the first time ever I own and have played this multiple times before the reviews are out. I really like Red Rising. It is an 8/10 for me. The metal cube colours are no where near as problematic as reviewers are making them out to be. The theme and art also help get others to play it where as fantasy realms would be impossible to convince some people to play.
@Valerio Di Gregorio I disagree that Fantasy Realms is a bad game. It VERY random but it plays quickly and is a lot of fun if you enjoy trying to built the best scoring hand out of what you have available. It hits the table a lot in our house and goes along with us when we're out and about. Waiting at the doctor's office? Fantasy Realms! Waiting for your food at a restaurant? Fantasy Realms! Taking 5 to relax the feet after browsing the mall? Fantasy Realms! If you have 10-20 minutes to spare you can fit in a game of Fantasy Realms.
Love your reviews. I personally disagree with your final thoughts. Most reviews I see forget to mention that Greys and Oranges act like wild cards. Greys can be two colors and Oranges can take on the name of a needed card. If you want to end the game when your hand is set do scout actions to work on finishing the three game end triggers. Also there are block cards that help protect from the take that cards. I have played 25+ games and have always found a workable and fun combo. Played well at all counts so far. I agree there can be decision paralysis at times. The collector edition does have color issue with cubes and storage issues. To be fair I have not played Fantasy realms so that could change my opinion. We find the game leads to a lets play one more time feeling. They have all been played under an hour. Solo games take less then 20 minutes. Two player game with or without an Automa third player take about 30 minutes. Keep up the good work.
I agree 100% with everything the guys said. I made the exact same comments after playing for the first time. I think Jamey is a good designer and love most of the Stonemaier games I've played, but given the choice, I'd play Fantasy Realms over this any day. Not to mention, I feel duped into spending more money on the deluxe edition. Those metal cubes are a nightmare to tell apart! Really not sure how that passed the quality test.
I wonder if the reason I liked this much more than the DT crew is because I haven't played Fantasy Realms before. Also solo mode is very solid in this game.
Some people really enjoy this game, but we found that it's just OK for us. There are so many texts to read and you're right there are other alternatives that are just better. That said Collectors edition is gorgeous and for people who have read the Red Rising series it's a treat just to see the cards and how they work. Great review as always guys!
Of anything I think you all were generous with the review. The cube color issue makes it hard to play and the 14 colors make the game worse. I would play it if someone asked but will never choose this. Fantasy Realms for the win.
I feel Mike's point. SM games sometimes feel like they are designed off spreadsheets (you have a 50% chance to get 20 points or 100% chance to get 10 points) that takes some of the edge and interest off the game occasionally.
Hi Guys, just watched your review of Red Rising. I was so delighted. I never played Red Rising, but we did play Fantasy Realms. And it's so much fun. I play it with my 9 year old son AND with my 5 year old daugther and she tries to read all of the bonuses and all the other stuff and still figure out some of the combos and of course she looses most of the times, but after a lot of play, she can figure out some of the combos and sometimes my son finishes first, me third and my daughter 2nd!!! and she's also trying to read the cards and with a little bit of patience, she get's it done!!! It's an amazing game, that encourages kids to always play it again (and to learn to read) and to figure out, how to optimize your hand. I mean, I Love Jamey Stegmaier (he did Scythe, which also my son loves to play), but in this case, Fantasy Realms is just fantastic, because of it's simplicity!!! So hey guys, Dice Tower & Jamey Stegmaier, thank you for doing your job. And the job might seems geeky, but hey, you bring a lot of joy to a lot of people around the world. So thanks for doing this!
I love Fantasy Realms and had the same reaction as many of you. This game adds a lot of overhead and your fun is very variable. Fantasy Realms has the variability but is so brisk that you can play it 3-4 times in the same amount of time so usually everyone walks away with some happy memories. Great review!
Is it wrong I want to play this desperately based on the box art alone? Whoever did the box art should work in marketing that's a very visually appealing cover!
Agreed with all of the critique here. So hard to distinguish some of the metal cubes that we just used replacement parts from other games. Also, even with the nice insert and component lid, the components scatter all over the inside of the box if you want to store the box vertically. A couple of games, I was dealt 3/5 cards that combo well and then coasted to a easy win yet it was boring because I only had to manage 2 other cards. Majority of time is spent "fishing" for cards in the game that may never come up, especially at lower player counts. Getting extra cards is a huge advantage because it opens up your scoring opportunity. Even if you get more than 7 cards, the -10 pt/card penalty for each card over 7 is well worth it. I love the first RR trilogy and it's cool to see the art for the characters in this game and understand their connections, but this game has very little thematic ties to the books. Maybe someday there will be a RR 4X game that will encapsulate the books. I'm glad I was able to resale the collectors edition, albeit for a small lost, before the better retail version comes out. Now I can get Fantasy Realms and it's expansion and still have money to spare.
I respectfully disagree with almost the entire review (apart from the part on the Deluxe edition). The game is fun and I'm puzzled why it got so low ratings here. It should have been rated at least 7.5-8. Much worse games than this were previously rated by DT as 7.
Tried it over the weekend and I definitely agree, especially about it having too many suits. I didn't even know there were red cards in the game until my opponent played one down on their last turn. It was fun even with all of its flaws, but if fantasy realms is a trimmed down version of this, I would prefer to play that.
I haven't played fantasy realms and haven't read red rising but my wife has and loved it and i love sm games so I had to get it. We've really enjoyed it but I think almost every critique made in this video is valid and fair. Chris was a great addition to this video but I did miss Z. Thanks for the video!
Great discussion with very valid points ... and I agree, it's not a game that I would pull out to play a lot, but if someone else wanted to play, I'd have no issue jumping in for a game. I got the Collectors Edition, and totally agree on the "cube" colors issue.
A couple of issues that the guys referenced that aren't as bad as they made out to be in my opinion, and most are as a first time player, from a guy who has played the game a lot and enjoy it. I've never used the scout action because I had a "perfect" hand and I've played 12-15 games or so. There's always a card or two in hand that doesn't combo with anything else or is worth laying down because it has an amazing deploy ability that outweighs the points on the card. Another inexperienced player mistake is one Mike referenced where he couldn't find a pink card most of the game. First, if you rely on getting a specific color or especially a named card you're setting yourself up for possible disappointment. That said Orange cards can act as any named card and greys can double as another color. People underestimate how huge a point swing that can create. They're spot on with the collector's edition issues. I can't believe they made the colors so similar but the metal is so much nicer than plastic though.
If you have played the game a couple of times, a two-player game only lasts 30 minutes and is really fun to play. My wife and I enjoy both Fantasy Realms and Red Rising if we want something a little more involved. For me it‘s an 8/10
If anyone ever tries to accuse TDT of being paid off by big-name publishers for good reviews, or of being biased to just review popular/beloved publishers' games in a positive light, I'll show them this video. Stonemaier has been on a roll lately, and they finally released something less than stellar. That's no big deal, it happens. No one is perfect. But I love that TDT is willing to be completely honest about it.
This a home run for me. I was quite disappointed by the underwhelming streak of Tapestry, Wingspan, and Pendulum. But this was fantastic. It’s a solid 8 in my estimation.
A home run? A game with tons of flaws and warts is a home run? To say this game is a home run is like saying that Olive Garden is the best Italian restaurant!! I mean yes, to each their own but just curious if this is a home run, what games would you consider to be better?
I too felt they should have mentioned the orange cards can be any unique named individual to combo with the one you need and the grey can be any colour. Played Solo twice and found it went very quick which is nice. This might be one of the simplest Autonomo to manage and makes the solo game go very quick. Lots of replayability too. I have never heard of the books and found the theme a bit lacking because of that. I have never played fantasy realms but don't have much interest in a smaller version of this game because while it is a big game it sets up in under a couple minutes and packs up equally as fast. I like this game and is probably going to be in my top 10 solo games of all time.
I’ve been brainstorming (for fun) a Harry Potter Worker Placement game forever. With a Hogwarts board where you can see the inside of the castle (like a blueprint). Would be so great
Although, and I don't mean this harshly, most of his games seem to be low on the interaction scale. Its the fact that it is low interaction, and the interaction you do have is take that, that makes this seem rough.
While I partially agree, I would argue he made an accessible game for fans of the book and a peak at the Red Rising universe in a light pretty package for gamers.
While I agree with some of their complaints, I do think it’s a bit of making mountains out of molehills (which I feel DT tends to do with most Stonemaier Games, but that’s another story). I love Fantasy Realms. I’m also into Book 3 of Red Rising and I’m really enjoying it. I do think you will enjoy the game more if you’ve read the books, even if the theme isn’t strong. I have the Collector’s Edition. Yes, some of the metal cube have similar colors but it has yet to ruin any game. Not once has anyone every mistaken one color for another while playing. The cubes just sit at the Institute. If it’s really an issue, just group each color cube together. They have a good weight and are fun to use. The card holders are fine. I’ve found that some people like using them, others don’t. The gold foil (which they didn’t mention) on all the gold cards is really nice. The insert is also fine. I just put the player pieces in bags (which I do for most game I own) and can easily store it vertically. Do I think you need you the Collector’s Edition? No. But is it “broken”? No. As for gameplay, I think where this game differs most with Fantasy Realms is that almost every card has an ability that triggers when deployed to the board. There are a lot of fun things there. Fantasy Realms has nothing like this. I do agree that the combos in Fantasy Realms are more interesting. Red Rising is more about lots of small card combos then one big combo. The end game issue that they mention, in my opinion, is also overblown. Yes, you get to a point where you like your hand but the game is usually almost over anyway. As Roy mentioned, a big part of the game is also pushing your luck seeing if you can make your hand better. My biggest complaint with the game is I wish it were easier to get more cards in your hand. There just isn’t a lot of cards that let you do it. Making one of the die-face let you draw a card would have been interesting. It’s rare that any player will have more than 5-6 cards. They didn’t mention that all the Orange cards let you copy any character name and every Gray card let you copy any color. So that does help a little bit if you’re trying to find a specific character. All that being said, the game is by no means perfect. I rate it an 8 (7 if I never read the books). I do agree with them that everyone should try Fantasy Realms. But I still enjoy Red Rising for the card abilities and the Red Rising theme.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I to think this review was nitpicky. Now, these guys have played a TON of games so they are always comparing them to others whether intentional or not. I feel they expect a game to cater to their every whim in regard to components and such. The suggestions you made regarding the colored cubes, insert, etc. is exactly how I feel. They are minor and the “solution” takes little to no effort. It’s as if they don’t want viewers to think they will love everything release by SM and so they become unnecessarily critical regarding things that ultimately don’t matter. Also, the comments from a lot of people saying they are selling their game or not getting it purely based on the opinion of four guys whom they’ve never met is unfortunate. I watch how a game is played on several channels, find and read the PDF manual and make my own decision based on that.
I 100% agree with you. I would also not give up the metal cubes and the metal sovereign token which feel fantastic in hand. I also had issues with increasing hand size at first but after more and more plays I've found that there are usually ways to accomplish it. Thanks for your comment, I would also give this between a 7 and 8. The solo is definitely an 8 for me.
Totally agree with this comment. I wonder how many times they played the game? I felt like it took a few plays to get a feel for the pace and arc of the game, and also to get a little more familiarity for the types of actions that are available and how best to leverage them.
@@tc3p Same thing happens in the video game realm. YT creators post reviews after they’ve only played a few hours of a game that has many modes and side quests. It’s the rush of having a review out that causes a drop in quality.
You guys nailed it, especially Mike. I have played this game 10-15 times and have to say the fantasy realms mechanics are not as good as fantasy realms and the added sections do not add much at all. I wanted to like this so bad, and like Mike said, if I hadn’t played FR maybe I would? Don’t know, but this failed for me.
Hearing Jamey Stegmeier announce this game almost made me preorder (also based on my love for scythe and wingspan) but I did a little research on the book series...not my thing. Then on top of that the art is terrible (don’t get how everyone likes it here) and the game seems kinda unfun....
The biggest disappointment I had with this game was the nature of the Fleet track, Helium reserve, and Institute influence. We had a couple cards interact with helium, but besides those, the resources had very little impact in the game. They were simply another way to track victory points. My mind was racing at the possibility of using your influence to legislate policies, using helium to create technologies or build colonies that may attract top scientist characters, or using your ships to collect additional people or other resources. (I did not read the books so those are random examples I thought might exist) I was just expecting SOMETHING other than vanilla victory points. By the end of our 3 player game everyone was nearly tied with board points and no one felt like they achieved anything besides refining their hand.
Interested in Fantasy Realms. I like Red Rising but I like it more solo and I keep it because I have nothing like it and it feels fresh. Except it not....everyone that has played fantasy realms preferred it on that table, I will have to look for it.
I don’t disagree with the review, however the downside with Fantasy realms for me is that you might only get 3-4 turns before the game ends. That doesn’t feel great to me and I love that Red Rising provides some more decisions that are really cool.
Oh man! I got the collectors edition and haven’t played it yet! Now you’ve ruined my excitement about it. Your reviews are important to my game choices because my likenesses of games are so in line with yours. This is why I need you to review games previous to their release!!!! Dammit!!!
Yeah I will give someone else’s copy a try but after seeing Before You Play’s video awhile back I was pretty sure this one wasn’t for me seem over complicated and in too big of a box for what it is.
Excellent review guys. I was thinking of getting the deluxe version and am glad I didn't now. I would like to see a Harry Potter version as Tom suggested.
I like this as a filler game, especially snuck between games like Khora or Scythe. One problem with the game is the deploy actions of some of the cards draw questions from players that need clarification. There is a board on Facebook that helps with that. Also, some of the houses have more of an advantage in the game while others may be weak in comparison. Never read the book, but did read a synopsis and that’s all I needed to understand what was going on.
I played two games of this back to back. Both times I did not really see any synergy in my cards, while other players did. That was just no fun. I have played Fantasy Realms, and maybe if there were less cards and colours in the deck, I would like it more, but as is, I prefer Fantasy Realms by a mile.
New studio looks great, and I know you are just moving in so this may change, but all of the new videos seem as if the camera is oddly close to you. It makes it almost claustrophobic. If the camera could be moved back just slightly it may be easier on the eyes.
basically if you can get the automa into fantasy realms there would be no reason to ever pick red rising outside of the theme. Trash a card from hand is bad... that card can be revived by the doctor and played again leading to someone with a 3 card hand, that's essentially telling someone their game is 100% over and they should go get a drink.
I had Aja and Antonia played against me in the same game and won. It's a big deck. The odds of getting a bad hand in fantasy realms and not being able to improve it fast enough is higher.
I think it is pretty clear that the insert is designed for sleeved cards. Which in this case, I did not mind as I decided to sleeve them after the first play and the realization that wear could be a consideration in future game play. But this does point to a problem with inserts. If they are designed for the standard non-sleeve deck (my default preference for most games) there is a vocal subset of the community that immediatelly begins complaining that the insert doesn't work with sleeves. if you make it work for sleeved cards, then the standard deck slides all around and the insert is worthless. I have so far only played it solo, but definitely am leaning towards a 7.5 rating based on just that experience. Then again, I have not played Fantasy Realms.
Several games have figured out how to make a good insert for both sleevers and non-sleevers: CMON's Dogs of War and Ethnos, Camel up 2nd edition. And there's several ways to do it. Its just lazy design not to accomodate both.
I think what he means is that when you get to that point where you have a good, solid hand of cards, you dont want to get rid of any of them because you feel you've got the "right" setup, so instead of DOING interesting things, you just go really passive and let the AI do stuff until it activates the endgame condition. Of course, whether or not it's a good idea to do that is another matter.
@@challiecoppel9022 Yes, but my point is that players in that position of having what they see as the perfect hand might simply decline to do that. They might figure "Okay, this hand is already fantastic and I already have a decent number of resources, so since I dont want to mess the hand up by playing any of these cards, I'm just going to keep scouting on my turn and let the automa be the one to trigger the end game". It's a complaint I've heard in other reviews too. Though again, whether or not it's actually a good idea to do it is another matter. Technically, it's something that would work in multiplayer as well; if you think your hand of cards is set for victory and you refuse to disturb it... just go passive and let the other players keep going until they trigger the end condition. Heck, the rulebook even says this about the Scout action: "Players typically only choose to scout if they are completely satisfied with their hand". In that situation, I imagine many players will simply do it over and over until the game ends.
@@Amalga_Heart I am only saying that when you scout you are pushing the end of the game. Not saying it is the best thing but that you can end the game scouting.
I could not care less about the theme. I read the first book, disliked it, but saw reviews that it gets better as the trilogy progresses. So I read the second book. And I stopped there. That having been said, I really want to like this game because it has the Fantasy Realms system, but with multi-use cards and a bit more going on. And I am a sucker for multi-use cards. They're one of the reasons I prefer Fox in the Forest Duet over The Crew. But this does not look like it would be for me. I think of Fantasy Realms as being almost a gamer's Gin Rummy in the same way that Tatsu comes off as a bit of a gamer's backgammon. By that analogy, I would compare this from what I have seen, read, and heard, to Rum 500. A bit looser, a bit less of that "Do I go for this combo (read: meld) or that combo that I almost (but don't quite) have" that can come with almost every card draw in Gin and Fantasy Realms (and at some point you have to sacrifice progress toward one to get another), and even a variable hand size. It's not that I wouldn't play Rum 500; I would just prefer Gin 10 times out of 10. This review makes me think I'd feel that same way about Red Rising and Fantasy Realms.
I've only played it once but really enjoyed it and found it intriguing in the emergent strategy - not knowing where your hand will go until sometime in the midway of the game. Haven't played Fantasy Realms, but I really liked this one. I do agree the card holders are tipsy as heck, but I personally really liked the metal cubes even though their colors are a bit more similar. Also, couldn't care less about the cube portion of the insert - I just baggie the cubes anyway. Have had no trouble with the cards.
@@Ironhawx I want to say "Not necessary", but that would be me just being polite. Since I engaged I will give you my true 2 cents. TL:DR: the game is boring. It just doesn't give you any options. On your turn you can basically almost always do 1 thing. You don't want to play your good cards because you lose them, so basically you keep 4 of the best cards and cycle 1 of the other constantly. THIS is super boring. The issues they share the for the game are 1000% more prominent. 1) As with almost all stonemaier games this is very very very very much imbalanced. And I am not talking about the luch part. A card can give you 15+15 points if you have this 1 other specific card from a deck of 120+ cards and a card can give you 35 points for a condition that is automatically completed as you play the game (empty location for example). There are many such examples. 2) As Chris said, the game is bipolar. It is "supposed to be able" to give you this enjoyment of big plays, but it never actually does that. Even if you do get it, the other people on the table are probably misarable then. 3) Even if you get the perfect hand from the first deal... that would mean you don't get to play the game at all, since all you do is do the "pass" action. To elaborate: if you have good cards the game is boring, since you don't want to use/waste them. If you have bad cards, the game is barely enjoyable. 4)There are many cards that depend on different colors/suits to show up and they DO NOT show up in the game (4-5 players) Some cards even require you to have multiple of the same suit. AND they just don't show up. 5) More players doesn't mean more cards will show up. Quite the opposite... you actually get less choices at what you want to do, because the options get taken before you. 6) the "lose 1 card" take that mechanic... basically is the " you can stop trying to play now" mechanic. I lost card is usually a difference of at least 15-20%. So your max score now becomes 20% less then other players. 7) The oposite is also true. Get more cards is almost a certain 10% min increase up to 30% max score increase. 8) there are barely any new cards in the game (4-5players) then the starting hand players get. Abilities that put more cards on the board are barely played because putting cards on the board makes other people's turns better, not your. By the time your turn comes you are back to same position. I will stop here but there are many many many many more glaring issiues:
@Valerio Di Gregorio Actually, I did buy this game to look at the cards since I love the RR books. But because of the mechanics, I promptly sold it. I think a review should take into account production quality, art, and component quality not just mechanics. Conversely, look at how many people/reviewers dock Terraforming Mars' rating because of its art, cardstock, and player boards. After listening to the DT crew's talking points, but before their numerical rating, I guessed correctly that it would sit around 6. The game didn't even get a seal of approval. I suspect they would play it again if someone would request to, but would not suggest it themselves.
@@LeeKenshin7 As I mentioned before :) I add or deduct 0.5 for production/art/theme etc etc. Or you can note that you despite or because of such things you score higher lower. But overall the it should be if the game is enjoyable and if it works.
@@zippystar I guess they probably put more weight into production, art, component quality than you do. In any case, 6-6.5 is a failing grade in Tom's eyes (in another comment, he equate his rating system to school grading). Reading the comments, some thinks it should be rated lower and some thinks it should be rated higher even suggesting that the DT colluded to not give this game a seal of approval. In the end, the numerical rating is just a reflection of their subjective taste/opinion and I would not call their integrity into question. Suffice it to say, with all four reviewers giving it 6-6.5, this game likely won't get the traction that many SM games do.
I think we all knew this was coming when SM opted to not send Dice Tower a review copy. If the game clearly didn’t work, why didn’t SM change it up instead of publish a mediocre game? Maybe the characters in all of the other factions could have have been grouped into 5 or 6 character types and linked with other cards that way? SM, you only get one shot, and you did not miss your chance to blow...
I was really looking forward to this review, and you guys haven't disappointed me. For the "some games might be more fun than others" problem, do you think it might be fixed with some house ruling (like a free mulligan option or something)?
Red rising is simplier, but longer. It depends on your tastes. Every card in fantasy realm have a lot of conditions, it creates extreme downtime between opponents turns.
I haven’t played Fantasy Realms. But I really love Red Rising. This is definitely a game that you have to play multiple times to get the intricacies of it.
Both have a place in my collection, Fantasy Realms is cleaner, the mechanics allow for quick play and quick end game conditions. Agreeing with the review, I LOVE Red Rising but the end game conditions can be slow and not a major driver of the strategy. My games have gone both ways: My hand is great mid-game and I'm just scouting to trigger end game faster OR my hand sucks and the cards I need don't show up the entire game no matter how much I delay the end game trigger. The main difference to me is that if I have a bad Fantasy Realms game it's easy to say "let's go another one" and play it again in Red Rising I rarely play twice the same night.
Definitely agree on the color issues on the metal cubes. I also threw away the awful insert. I went and looked at pictures of the retail version and definitely agree it is way better. But, I honestly quite enjoy the game. Not my favorite, so likely that a lot of people will find it boring. But I quite enjoyed it at 2 players
It's not a game without its problems and there's definitely a luck factor. But I found it much better than Fantasy Realms. Because almost every card has an action. In Fantasy Realms, no cards have actions. I felt it was very static and calculating your end points takes almost as long as playing the game does.
I agree with you. For me it’s a solid 7.5 and could be higher if it weren’t for the fact that once you have a good hand there is no real incentive to play cards from your hand. I’m thinking of adding a house rule where by once a round a player rolled the die and plays a card from the deck to the spot that was rolled (picking one and banishing one of those come up) it would add more variety to the board rather then having the same five cards being picked up and played back to back. Their criticisms are all fair though aside from the insert.
Is fantasy realms more thematic? Also why does thematic connection to gameplay matter THAT much? Complaints about so much card variety is weird to me since Wingspan does the same thing. Red Rising is definitely a game of tactics versus long term strategy.
One thing I have understood since starting this hobby is that the majority of board gamers tend to dislike "take-that" mechanics. It is on my top 5 at least of most enjoyable mechanics.
when I watched the first video about this months ago my first thought was: wait, only -10 points for having more than x cards? jamey probably needs better playtesters: the games I played from him all have balancing issues [yup, wingspan's among them]
@@notsaved I know it's not but I'm sure he was somewhat involved in it, meaning if he published it he must've played the game and suggested tweaks to improve it
I would assume that, generally, the point of an IP-based game is to either a) get new people interested about the IP or b) reward fans of that IP with a fresh take. This game doesn't seem to do either.
a) Hundreds of people, including 2 of the 4 DT reviewers, began reading the books because of the game. b) Many players of the game, including 2 of the 4 DT reviewers, were excited to see artistic representations of the characters. So your comment is a bit weird.
@@StevenStJohn-kj9eb a) What about the game excited "hundreds" of people to check out the books? I can't find any data to back that up. b) "Artistic representations" could be posters, fan art, art books, etc. They didn't need to be cardboard cards to get the same effect. Like they said in the review, you could paste any IP onto this game and have the same artistic representation. Seems like a waste of money to produce a game that isn't more expansive.
I started reading the books only because the game was released, so #1 worked with me. I have thus far finished the first book and have the second book ready to go as soon as I have a little time.
Fantasy Realms is the superior game. Combos are more fun and interesting, gameplay is smoother and quicker. Red Rising is long and a tedious turn results in something as simple as moving up a track. Art is amazing but I would never pick it over Fantasy Realms.
I agree that the combos are more interesting in Fantasy Realms. But at the same time, it is much more luck based whether you are going to hit those big combos. You see fewer cards overall in Fantasy Realms. and greys and oranges in Red Rising can change suits and names respectively, so there is a higher chance of completing combos in Red Rising. There are 8 cards out at the beginning of Red Rising, and base Fantasy Realms ends when you see the 10th card out. The expansion ends at 12 cards, but then you have 3 more suits added, so it's the same issue with more variance in scores in Fantasy Realms. I think both are extremely fun, but Fantasy Realms is more luck based than Red Rising.
@@windbane69 agree on a lot of this, but I think the flaw in Red Rising it has luck in it that is more devastating and lasts for a longer time. If a player gets extra cards and you get none, it feels terrible and you’re probably going to lose. If you get a card taken away, you’re playing the whole game down a card, and you’ll probably lose. Fantasy realms has you shooting for combos based on your own decisions and limited time frame, and the randomness is more palpable based on the game length.
@@kumanight I disagree. The AP that is caused drags the turns down, with players checking cards that are covered by others, as well as planning on what cards to play based on the previous turn. I agree with Tom a lot in this case. In addition, the small actions of placing a cube and moving up a track or getting a resource don’t merit the down time. I was so excited about this game because Jamey loved Fantasy Realms, but it took a great system and added a cool theme but hindered it with unnecessary mechanics.
I'm glad I played Red Rising before watching this review, because I like it much better than any of the 4. Amazed that it did not get a Seal of Approval rating from any of them. Boo!! #TomIsWrong
Having the Orange cards (wild for character names) and Grey (wild for colour) helps a lot with not getting certain cards for combos
"I owned the book and just didn't realize it" same thing happened to me! My mom gave me the original trilogy a few years ago but at the time I was not in the mood to read a book. Then a few months ago my friend asked if I'd ever heard of/read Red Rising. And i was like, "hang on, I think I own those" and dug them out. as soon as he told me the series knocked Harry Potter out of his top 3, I instantly started reading them. now almost done with the 5th book.
No matter how much real traction this game will get in the hobby, it definitely felt like a lot of board gamers read Red Rising in preparation for this game (including myself). That part I find is pretty cool.
Was surprised they didn't talk about how Orange cards mitigate having to get specific named characters and Grey cards help with scoring conditions that require different colors. Really like the tactical nature of the game.
Solid 8 out of 10 for me.
It's a really great fast game with some fun choices!
Why has Zee not been in these Four Squares reviews for a while? Not that I dislike Chris, but Zee is my fave.
I tend to align with Zee's opinions, so I like hearing his perspective (sorta like a voice of dissent but not pessimistically)
I do miss Zee too
They need to make it the "5 Star" review going forward.
Zee is the voice of the people for a reason. His opinion aligns with many people.
@Valerio Di Gregorio oh really, did it change recently ? i thought the title has always been Zee's
For the first time ever I own and have played this multiple times before the reviews are out. I really like Red Rising. It is an 8/10 for me. The metal cube colours are no where near as problematic as reviewers are making them out to be. The theme and art also help get others to play it where as fantasy realms would be impossible to convince some people to play.
Strange review. It made me want to go out and buy a different game. Fantasy Realms is now on my radar.
@Valerio Di Gregorio I disagree that Fantasy Realms is a bad game. It VERY random but it plays quickly and is a lot of fun if you enjoy trying to built the best scoring hand out of what you have available. It hits the table a lot in our house and goes along with us when we're out and about. Waiting at the doctor's office? Fantasy Realms! Waiting for your food at a restaurant? Fantasy Realms! Taking 5 to relax the feet after browsing the mall? Fantasy Realms! If you have 10-20 minutes to spare you can fit in a game of Fantasy Realms.
Love your reviews. I personally disagree with your final thoughts. Most reviews I see forget to mention that Greys and Oranges act like wild cards. Greys can be two colors and Oranges can take on the name of a needed card. If you want to end the game when your hand is set do scout actions to work on finishing the three game end triggers. Also there are block cards that help protect from the take that cards. I have played 25+ games and have always found a workable and fun combo. Played well at all counts so far. I agree there can be decision paralysis at times. The collector edition does have color issue with cubes and storage issues. To be fair I have not played Fantasy realms so that could change my opinion. We find the game leads to a lets play one more time feeling. They have all been played under an hour. Solo games take less then 20 minutes. Two player game with or without an Automa third player take about 30 minutes. Keep up the good work.
I agree 100% with everything the guys said. I made the exact same comments after playing for the first time. I think Jamey is a good designer and love most of the Stonemaier games I've played, but given the choice, I'd play Fantasy Realms over this any day. Not to mention, I feel duped into spending more money on the deluxe edition. Those metal cubes are a nightmare to tell apart! Really not sure how that passed the quality test.
I thought Chris was a man of taste then I saw his shirt and knew for sure.
Is he the one with the Dr. Pepper shirt?
Instead of metal cubes and card holders, the collector’s edition should’ve come with a Lazy Susan so you can reorient the board.
You can store the deluxe vertically upside-down, then the places for the cubes have the lower edge along the plastic cover.
Shouldnt they test these things though before producing?
I wonder if the reason I liked this much more than the DT crew is because I haven't played Fantasy Realms before. Also solo mode is very solid in this game.
I haven't played Red Rising, but Fantasy Realms is a very apt comparison... and the play time of FR makes it a lot more alluring.
I agree. I enjoy this game much more than the DT crew. I've played one six player game and around 8 solo games. I love the solo on this one.
Game doesn’t matter but when I see “4 Squares Review” I immediately click on the video 🤗
But since they’re together there are no longer four squares on screen....unless
Some people really enjoy this game, but we found that it's just OK for us. There are so many texts to read and you're right there are other alternatives that are just better. That said Collectors edition is gorgeous and for people who have read the Red Rising series it's a treat just to see the cards and how they work. Great review as always guys!
Of anything I think you all were generous with the review. The cube color issue makes it hard to play and the 14 colors make the game worse. I would play it if someone asked but will never choose this. Fantasy Realms for the win.
I feel Mike's point. SM games sometimes feel like they are designed off spreadsheets (you have a 50% chance to get 20 points or 100% chance to get 10 points) that takes some of the edge and interest off the game occasionally.
Hi Guys, just watched your review of Red Rising. I was so delighted. I never played Red Rising, but we did play Fantasy Realms. And it's so much fun. I play it with my 9 year old son AND with my 5 year old daugther and she tries to read all of the bonuses and all the other stuff and still figure out some of the combos and of course she looses most of the times, but after a lot of play, she can figure out some of the combos and sometimes my son finishes first, me third and my daughter 2nd!!! and she's also trying to read the cards and with a little bit of patience, she get's it done!!! It's an amazing game, that encourages kids to always play it again (and to learn to read) and to figure out, how to optimize your hand. I mean, I Love Jamey Stegmaier (he did Scythe, which also my son loves to play), but in this case, Fantasy Realms is just fantastic, because of it's simplicity!!!
So hey guys, Dice Tower & Jamey Stegmaier, thank you for doing your job. And the job might seems geeky, but hey,
you bring a lot of joy to a lot of people around the world. So thanks for doing this!
I love Fantasy Realms and had the same reaction as many of you. This game adds a lot of overhead and your fun is very variable. Fantasy Realms has the variability but is so brisk that you can play it 3-4 times in the same amount of time so usually everyone walks away with some happy memories. Great review!
Is it wrong I want to play this desperately based on the box art alone? Whoever did the box art should work in marketing that's a very visually appealing cover!
Agreed with all of the critique here. So hard to distinguish some of the metal cubes that we just used replacement parts from other games. Also, even with the nice insert and component lid, the components scatter all over the inside of the box if you want to store the box vertically.
A couple of games, I was dealt 3/5 cards that combo well and then coasted to a easy win yet it was boring because I only had to manage 2 other cards. Majority of time is spent "fishing" for cards in the game that may never come up, especially at lower player counts.
Getting extra cards is a huge advantage because it opens up your scoring opportunity. Even if you get more than 7 cards, the -10 pt/card penalty for each card over 7 is well worth it.
I love the first RR trilogy and it's cool to see the art for the characters in this game and understand their connections, but this game has very little thematic ties to the books. Maybe someday there will be a RR 4X game that will encapsulate the books.
I'm glad I was able to resale the collectors edition, albeit for a small lost, before the better retail version comes out. Now I can get Fantasy Realms and it's expansion and still have money to spare.
Is it the new office colors or did Roy lose weight? look so different here! If so, congrats! If not, nothing to see here lol
I thought the same exact thing!
Thought that in another video. Agreed!
hope hes o.k.
It is on purpose! It was a lot of hard work!!
@@EpicGamingNight what’s your secret Roy??? You look great!
I respectfully disagree with almost the entire review (apart from the part on the Deluxe edition). The game is fun and I'm puzzled why it got so low ratings here. It should have been rated at least 7.5-8. Much worse games than this were previously rated by DT as 7.
I love the intro but it makes me miss Sam each time I hear it. More Sam guest spots please!! PLEASE!!!!
Tried it over the weekend and I definitely agree, especially about it having too many suits. I didn't even know there were red cards in the game until my opponent played one down on their last turn. It was fun even with all of its flaws, but if fantasy realms is a trimmed down version of this, I would prefer to play that.
I haven't played fantasy realms and haven't read red rising but my wife has and loved it and i love sm games so I had to get it. We've really enjoyed it but I think almost every critique made in this video is valid and fair. Chris was a great addition to this video but I did miss Z. Thanks for the video!
Great discussion with very valid points ... and I agree, it's not a game that I would pull out to play a lot, but if someone else wanted to play, I'd have no issue jumping in for a game.
I got the Collectors Edition, and totally agree on the "cube" colors issue.
A couple of issues that the guys referenced that aren't as bad as they made out to be in my opinion, and most are as a first time player, from a guy who has played the game a lot and enjoy it.
I've never used the scout action because I had a "perfect" hand and I've played 12-15 games or so. There's always a card or two in hand that doesn't combo with anything else or is worth laying down because it has an amazing deploy ability that outweighs the points on the card.
Another inexperienced player mistake is one Mike referenced where he couldn't find a pink card most of the game. First, if you rely on getting a specific color or especially a named card you're setting yourself up for possible disappointment. That said Orange cards can act as any named card and greys can double as another color. People underestimate how huge a point swing that can create.
They're spot on with the collector's edition issues. I can't believe they made the colors so similar but the metal is so much nicer than plastic though.
Bruce Glassco must be feeling pretty good
Still not used to seeing the guys in the same room. It makes me soooo happy.
I read the the books in middle school and got super excited when I heard there was a board game for it yesterday.
If you have played the game a couple of times, a two-player game only lasts 30 minutes and is really fun to play. My wife and I enjoy both Fantasy Realms and Red Rising if we want something a little more involved. For me it‘s an 8/10
Fantastic review guys! I really really like this format for reviews because I get four reviewers in one go. Top notch!
If anyone ever tries to accuse TDT of being paid off by big-name publishers for good reviews, or of being biased to just review popular/beloved publishers' games in a positive light, I'll show them this video. Stonemaier has been on a roll lately, and they finally released something less than stellar. That's no big deal, it happens. No one is perfect. But I love that TDT is willing to be completely honest about it.
Naruto lost a tonne of weight and looking great! Congratulations! :)
who's naruto?
@@TheXtreme32 He is the anime character on Roy's shirt.
@EnoFruitSalt. I don't get it... : /
This a home run for me. I was quite disappointed by the underwhelming streak of Tapestry, Wingspan, and Pendulum. But this was fantastic. It’s a solid 8 in my estimation.
I like RR quite a bit too. But Wingspan is a way better game.
A home run? A game with tons of flaws and warts is a home run? To say this game is a home run is like saying that Olive Garden is the best Italian restaurant!! I mean yes, to each their own but just curious if this is a home run, what games would you consider to be better?
I too felt they should have mentioned the orange cards can be any unique named individual to combo with the one you need and the grey can be any colour.
Played Solo twice and found it went very quick which is nice. This might be one of the simplest Autonomo to manage and makes the solo game go very quick. Lots of replayability too.
I have never heard of the books and found the theme a bit lacking because of that. I have never played fantasy realms but don't have much interest in a smaller version of this game because while it is a big game it sets up in under a couple minutes and packs up equally as fast.
I like this game and is probably going to be in my top 10 solo games of all time.
Tom might be on to something there with a Harry Potter retheme using the 4 Hogwarts Houses as the suits... 🤔
I’ve been brainstorming (for fun) a Harry Potter Worker Placement game forever. With a Hogwarts board where you can see the inside of the castle (like a blueprint). Would be so great
@@evannadeau3938 Argent the Consortium rethemed?
@@zvonk2480 hmm maybe? Haven’t heard or played it. Looks interesting.
What was the point of acquiring his favorite IP only to turn it into an extremely abstract, low interaction game???
Gotta agree. If I got my favorite book IP I would do my best to make it feel the way I felt reading the book.
Although, and I don't mean this harshly, most of his games seem to be low on the interaction scale. Its the fact that it is low interaction, and the interaction you do have is take that, that makes this seem rough.
While I partially agree, I would argue he made an accessible game for fans of the book and a peak at the Red Rising universe in a light pretty package for gamers.
So good to see Chris taking part in this review! Love his podcast.
While I agree with some of their complaints, I do think it’s a bit of making mountains out of molehills (which I feel DT tends to do with most Stonemaier Games, but that’s another story). I love Fantasy Realms. I’m also into Book 3 of Red Rising and I’m really enjoying it. I do think you will enjoy the game more if you’ve read the books, even if the theme isn’t strong.
I have the Collector’s Edition. Yes, some of the metal cube have similar colors but it has yet to ruin any game. Not once has anyone every mistaken one color for another while playing. The cubes just sit at the Institute. If it’s really an issue, just group each color cube together. They have a good weight and are fun to use. The card holders are fine. I’ve found that some people like using them, others don’t. The gold foil (which they didn’t mention) on all the gold cards is really nice. The insert is also fine. I just put the player pieces in bags (which I do for most game I own) and can easily store it vertically. Do I think you need you the Collector’s Edition? No. But is it “broken”? No.
As for gameplay, I think where this game differs most with Fantasy Realms is that almost every card has an ability that triggers when deployed to the board. There are a lot of fun things there. Fantasy Realms has nothing like this. I do agree that the combos in Fantasy Realms are more interesting. Red Rising is more about lots of small card combos then one big combo. The end game issue that they mention, in my opinion, is also overblown. Yes, you get to a point where you like your hand but the game is usually almost over anyway. As Roy mentioned, a big part of the game is also pushing your luck seeing if you can make your hand better.
My biggest complaint with the game is I wish it were easier to get more cards in your hand. There just isn’t a lot of cards that let you do it. Making one of the die-face let you draw a card would have been interesting. It’s rare that any player will have more than 5-6 cards. They didn’t mention that all the Orange cards let you copy any character name and every Gray card let you copy any color. So that does help a little bit if you’re trying to find a specific character.
All that being said, the game is by no means perfect. I rate it an 8 (7 if I never read the books). I do agree with them that everyone should try Fantasy Realms. But I still enjoy Red Rising for the card abilities and the Red Rising theme.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I to think this review was nitpicky. Now, these guys have played a TON of games so they are always comparing them to others whether intentional or not.
I feel they expect a game to cater to their every whim in regard to components and such. The suggestions you made regarding the colored cubes, insert, etc. is exactly how I feel. They are minor and the “solution” takes little to no effort.
It’s as if they don’t want viewers to think they will love everything release by SM and so they become unnecessarily critical regarding things that ultimately don’t matter.
Also, the comments from a lot of people saying they are selling their game or not getting it purely based on the opinion of four guys whom they’ve never met is unfortunate.
I watch how a game is played on several channels, find and read the PDF manual and make my own decision based on that.
I 100% agree with you. I would also not give up the metal cubes and the metal sovereign token which feel fantastic in hand. I also had issues with increasing hand size at first but after more and more plays I've found that there are usually ways to accomplish it. Thanks for your comment, I would also give this between a 7 and 8. The solo is definitely an 8 for me.
Totally agree with this comment. I wonder how many times they played the game? I felt like it took a few plays to get a feel for the pace and arc of the game, and also to get a little more familiarity for the types of actions that are available and how best to leverage them.
@@tc3p Same thing happens in the video game realm. YT creators post reviews after they’ve only played a few hours of a game that has many modes and side quests. It’s the rush of having a review out that causes a drop in quality.
Great review but is the room a little echo sounding?
Definitely agree with the deluxe cubes and card holders not being good. Don't have an issue with the insert though, I thought it was fine.
You guys nailed it, especially Mike. I have played this game 10-15 times and have to say the fantasy realms mechanics are not as good as fantasy realms and the added sections do not add much at all. I wanted to like this so bad, and like Mike said, if I hadn’t played FR maybe I would? Don’t know, but this failed for me.
I’m not sorry but I think this game is much better than Fantasy Realms!
I don't feel so bad now not getting it. I'll stick with my Fantasy Realms.
Hearing Jamey Stegmeier announce this game almost made me preorder (also based on my love for scythe and wingspan) but I did a little research on the book series...not my thing. Then on top of that the art is terrible (don’t get how everyone likes it here) and the game seems kinda unfun....
having purchase tied to social justice cause donation was first red flag for me
This just in: Red rising Collector's edition sales down 88%!!
The biggest disappointment I had with this game was the nature of the Fleet track, Helium reserve, and Institute influence. We had a couple cards interact with helium, but besides those, the resources had very little impact in the game. They were simply another way to track victory points. My mind was racing at the possibility of using your influence to legislate policies, using helium to create technologies or build colonies that may attract top scientist characters, or using your ships to collect additional people or other resources. (I did not read the books so those are random examples I thought might exist) I was just expecting SOMETHING other than vanilla victory points. By the end of our 3 player game everyone was nearly tied with board points and no one felt like they achieved anything besides refining their hand.
Interested in Fantasy Realms. I like Red Rising but I like it more solo and I keep it because I have nothing like it and it feels fresh. Except it not....everyone that has played fantasy realms preferred it on that table, I will have to look for it.
I don’t disagree with the review, however the downside with Fantasy realms for me is that you might only get 3-4 turns before the game ends. That doesn’t feel great to me and I love that Red Rising provides some more decisions that are really cool.
Oh man! I got the collectors edition and haven’t played it yet! Now you’ve ruined my excitement about it. Your reviews are important to my game choices because my likenesses of games are so in line with yours. This is why I need you to review games previous to their release!!!! Dammit!!!
Yeah I will give someone else’s copy a try but after seeing Before You Play’s video awhile back I was pretty sure this one wasn’t for me seem over complicated and in too big of a box for what it is.
My thoughts on the game were just the same as theirs. But the theme did interest me enough to get me to start the series which I’m loving.
Excellent review guys. I was thinking of getting the deluxe version and am glad I didn't now. I would like to see a Harry Potter version as Tom suggested.
I like this as a filler game, especially snuck between games like Khora or Scythe. One problem with the game is the deploy actions of some of the cards draw questions from players that need clarification. There is a board on Facebook that helps with that. Also, some of the houses have more of an advantage in the game while others may be weak in comparison. Never read the book, but did read a synopsis and that’s all I needed to understand what was going on.
the guy with the Dr Pepper shirt should be a voice actor. He's got such a great announcer voice haha
Interesting review! Sounded more like an intervention to convince Roy to play Fantasy Realms :)
Can we expect a catchup-palooza?
I played two games of this back to back. Both times I did not really see any synergy in my cards, while other players did. That was just no fun. I have played Fantasy Realms, and maybe if there were less cards and colours in the deck, I would like it more, but as is, I prefer Fantasy Realms by a mile.
Just started reading these books 📚 a week ago. So far I've been enjoying them.
Love the faces Roy, never change!
Never played fantasy realms... Glad I got this though bc I LOVED the books. Not the best game out there, but glad I have it in my collection.
New studio looks great, and I know you are just moving in so this may change, but all of the new videos seem as if the camera is oddly close to you. It makes it almost claustrophobic. If the camera could be moved back just slightly it may be easier on the eyes.
Seconded
basically if you can get the automa into fantasy realms there would be no reason to ever pick red rising outside of the theme. Trash a card from hand is bad... that card can be revived by the doctor and played again leading to someone with a 3 card hand, that's essentially telling someone their game is 100% over and they should go get a drink.
I had Aja and Antonia played against me in the same game and won. It's a big deck. The odds of getting a bad hand in fantasy realms and not being able to improve it fast enough is higher.
I think it is pretty clear that the insert is designed for sleeved cards. Which in this case, I did not mind as I decided to sleeve them after the first play and the realization that wear could be a consideration in future game play. But this does point to a problem with inserts. If they are designed for the standard non-sleeve deck (my default preference for most games) there is a vocal subset of the community that immediatelly begins complaining that the insert doesn't work with sleeves. if you make it work for sleeved cards, then the standard deck slides all around and the insert is worthless.
I have so far only played it solo, but definitely am leaning towards a 7.5 rating based on just that experience. Then again, I have not played Fantasy Realms.
Several games have figured out how to make a good insert for both sleevers and non-sleevers: CMON's Dogs of War and Ethnos, Camel up 2nd edition.
And there's several ways to do it.
Its just lazy design not to accomodate both.
Do not understand Tom's comment about in the solo waiting for the automa to finish the game. You can force the finish yourself.
I think what he means is that when you get to that point where you have a good, solid hand of cards, you dont want to get rid of any of them because you feel you've got the "right" setup, so instead of DOING interesting things, you just go really passive and let the AI do stuff until it activates the endgame condition. Of course, whether or not it's a good idea to do that is another matter.
@@Amalga_Heart but that's not how it works you can actively push the end game yourself. The automa does not need to meet any end game conditions.
@@challiecoppel9022 Yes, but my point is that players in that position of having what they see as the perfect hand might simply decline to do that. They might figure "Okay, this hand is already fantastic and I already have a decent number of resources, so since I dont want to mess the hand up by playing any of these cards, I'm just going to keep scouting on my turn and let the automa be the one to trigger the end game". It's a complaint I've heard in other reviews too. Though again, whether or not it's actually a good idea to do it is another matter.
Technically, it's something that would work in multiplayer as well; if you think your hand of cards is set for victory and you refuse to disturb it... just go passive and let the other players keep going until they trigger the end condition. Heck, the rulebook even says this about the Scout action: "Players typically only choose to scout if they are completely satisfied with their hand". In that situation, I imagine many players will simply do it over and over until the game ends.
@@Amalga_Heart I am only saying that when you scout you are pushing the end of the game. Not saying it is the best thing but that you can end the game scouting.
I could not care less about the theme. I read the first book, disliked it, but saw reviews that it gets better as the trilogy progresses. So I read the second book. And I stopped there. That having been said, I really want to like this game because it has the Fantasy Realms system, but with multi-use cards and a bit more going on. And I am a sucker for multi-use cards. They're one of the reasons I prefer Fox in the Forest Duet over The Crew.
But this does not look like it would be for me. I think of Fantasy Realms as being almost a gamer's Gin Rummy in the same way that Tatsu comes off as a bit of a gamer's backgammon. By that analogy, I would compare this from what I have seen, read, and heard, to Rum 500. A bit looser, a bit less of that "Do I go for this combo (read: meld) or that combo that I almost (but don't quite) have" that can come with almost every card draw in Gin and Fantasy Realms (and at some point you have to sacrifice progress toward one to get another), and even a variable hand size. It's not that I wouldn't play Rum 500; I would just prefer Gin 10 times out of 10. This review makes me think I'd feel that same way about Red Rising and Fantasy Realms.
Where be Zee?!?!
I've only played it once but really enjoyed it and found it intriguing in the emergent strategy - not knowing where your hand will go until sometime in the midway of the game.
Haven't played Fantasy Realms, but I really liked this one.
I do agree the card holders are tipsy as heck, but I personally really liked the metal cubes even though their colors are a bit more similar.
Also, couldn't care less about the cube portion of the insert - I just baggie the cubes anyway. Have had no trouble with the cards.
Looking great Roy!
Tom: Normal Edition is going in the dice tower library.
Me:
~Preorders Normal Edition
I wouldn't... the game is much worse then they even suggest
@@Ironhawx I want to say "Not necessary", but that would be me just being polite. Since I engaged I will give you my true 2 cents.
TL:DR: the game is boring. It just doesn't give you any options. On your turn you can basically almost always do 1 thing. You don't want to play your good cards because you lose them, so basically you keep 4 of the best cards and cycle 1 of the other constantly. THIS is super boring.
The issues they share the for the game are 1000% more prominent.
1) As with almost all stonemaier games this is very very very very much imbalanced. And I am not talking about the luch part. A card can give you 15+15 points if you have this 1 other specific card from a deck of 120+ cards and a card can give you 35 points for a condition that is automatically completed as you play the game (empty location for example). There are many such examples.
2) As Chris said, the game is bipolar. It is "supposed to be able" to give you this enjoyment of big plays, but it never actually does that. Even if you do get it, the other people on the table are probably misarable then.
3) Even if you get the perfect hand from the first deal... that would mean you don't get to play the game at all, since all you do is do the "pass" action. To elaborate: if you have good cards the game is boring, since you don't want to use/waste them. If you have bad cards, the game is barely enjoyable.
4)There are many cards that depend on different colors/suits to show up and they DO NOT show up in the game (4-5 players) Some cards even require you to have multiple of the same suit. AND they just don't show up.
5) More players doesn't mean more cards will show up. Quite the opposite... you actually get less choices at what you want to do, because the options get taken before you.
6) the "lose 1 card" take that mechanic... basically is the " you can stop trying to play now" mechanic. I lost card is usually a difference of at least 15-20%. So your max score now becomes 20% less then other players.
7) The oposite is also true. Get more cards is almost a certain 10% min increase up to 30% max score increase.
8) there are barely any new cards in the game (4-5players) then the starting hand players get. Abilities that put more cards on the board are barely played because putting cards on the board makes other people's turns better, not your. By the time your turn comes you are back to same position.
I will stop here but there are many many many many more glaring issiues:
@Valerio Di Gregorio Actually, I did buy this game to look at the cards since I love the RR books. But because of the mechanics, I promptly sold it. I think a review should take into account production quality, art, and component quality not just mechanics. Conversely, look at how many people/reviewers dock Terraforming Mars' rating because of its art, cardstock, and player boards. After listening to the DT crew's talking points, but before their numerical rating, I guessed correctly that it would sit around 6. The game didn't even get a seal of approval. I suspect they would play it again if someone would request to, but would not suggest it themselves.
@@LeeKenshin7 As I mentioned before :) I add or deduct 0.5 for production/art/theme etc etc. Or you can note that you despite or because of such things you score higher lower. But overall the it should be if the game is enjoyable and if it works.
@@zippystar I guess they probably put more weight into production, art, component quality than you do. In any case, 6-6.5 is a failing grade in Tom's eyes (in another comment, he equate his rating system to school grading).
Reading the comments, some thinks it should be rated lower and some thinks it should be rated higher even suggesting that the DT colluded to not give this game a seal of approval. In the end, the numerical rating is just a reflection of their subjective taste/opinion and I would not call their integrity into question. Suffice it to say, with all four reviewers giving it 6-6.5, this game likely won't get the traction that many SM games do.
Throughout reading the series I kept thinking it was written like a video game, like Mass Effect meets Game of Thrones.
I think we all knew this was coming when SM opted to not send Dice Tower a review copy. If the game clearly didn’t work, why didn’t SM change it up instead of publish a mediocre game? Maybe the characters in all of the other factions could have have been grouped into 5 or 6 character types and linked with other cards that way? SM, you only get one shot, and you did not miss your chance to blow...
I was really looking forward to this review, and you guys haven't disappointed me. For the "some games might be more fun than others" problem, do you think it might be fixed with some house ruling (like a free mulligan option or something)?
There is an official mulligan rule
Roy you lost enough weight now! Congrats btw
I'll get this just because I love the book series. Good to see everyone in the same room too.
Suggestion: This board would fit on a lazy Susan. This would solve Tom’s complaint of players looking at the board upside down.
You know, people always say this. I bought a lazy Susan. They're heavy, bulky, a pain to put on the table and a bigger pain to store.
I didn't played Red Rising or Fantasy Realm but I'm super interested in the gameplay. Meaning I should go with Fantasy Realm?
Red rising is simplier, but longer. It depends on your tastes. Every card in fantasy realm have a lot of conditions, it creates extreme downtime between opponents turns.
I haven’t played Fantasy Realms. But I really love Red Rising. This is definitely a game that you have to play multiple times to get the intricacies of it.
Both have a place in my collection, Fantasy Realms is cleaner, the mechanics allow for quick play and quick end game conditions. Agreeing with the review, I LOVE Red Rising but the end game conditions can be slow and not a major driver of the strategy. My games have gone both ways: My hand is great mid-game and I'm just scouting to trigger end game faster OR my hand sucks and the cards I need don't show up the entire game no matter how much I delay the end game trigger. The main difference to me is that if I have a bad Fantasy Realms game it's easy to say "let's go another one" and play it again in Red Rising I rarely play twice the same night.
Definitely agree on the color issues on the metal cubes. I also threw away the awful insert. I went and looked at pictures of the retail version and definitely agree it is way better.
But, I honestly quite enjoy the game. Not my favorite, so likely that a lot of people will find it boring. But I quite enjoyed it at 2 players
My thoughts exactly.
Yay
It's not a game without its problems and there's definitely a luck factor. But I found it much better than Fantasy Realms. Because almost every card has an action. In Fantasy Realms, no cards have actions. I felt it was very static and calculating your end points takes almost as long as playing the game does.
I liked this game a lot. I think you all under rated it, but hey we all can't like the same thing.
did you get the deluxe edition?
@@lexodius Yes, and I do understand the criticism with the cubes. I still think the game over all is better than what they make it out to be.
I agree with you. For me it’s a solid 7.5 and could be higher if it weren’t for the fact that once you have a good hand there is no real incentive to play cards from your hand. I’m thinking of adding a house rule where by once a round a player rolled the die and plays a card from the deck to the spot that was rolled (picking one and banishing one of those come up) it would add more variety to the board rather then having the same five cards being picked up and played back to back. Their criticisms are all fair though aside from the insert.
Personally, if I'm left feeling I have to add house rules to make a game interesting then it's not getting a 7.5 rating. 😁
Wow Roy... good job on the weight loss!
What was the method? :D
Agreed. I need to know the secret because I'm in the market for losing a few pounds myself.
Shame Zee wasn't a part of this given his general appreciation of card games
I agree with this comment, a big omission by the dice tower.
And not related to 'Thanos rising'? because now with all the other 'rising' games it sure is easily to make that mistake...
Is fantasy realms more thematic? Also why does thematic connection to gameplay matter THAT much?
Complaints about so much card variety is weird to me since Wingspan does the same thing. Red Rising is definitely a game of tactics versus long term strategy.
One thing I have understood since starting this hobby is that the majority of board gamers tend to dislike "take-that" mechanics. It is on my top 5 at least of most enjoyable mechanics.
Yea, this game did not work at all with me...
Typical SM games. A pass for me on this one. Looking forward to the next one.
when I watched the first video about this months ago my first thought was: wait, only -10 points for having more than x cards?
jamey probably needs better playtesters: the games I played from him all have balancing issues [yup, wingspan's among them]
Wingspan is not Jamey's design
@@notsaved I know it's not but I'm sure he was somewhat involved in it, meaning if he published it he must've played the game and suggested tweaks to improve it
-10 per card.
@@bricelory9534 i know but if you keep a card it's gonna net you way more than that, so it feels weird
Lol this is a weird comment but Roy looks really healthy lol
So more is sometimes less. I dont thing they teach this in ux courses...
I would assume that, generally, the point of an IP-based game is to either a) get new people interested about the IP or b) reward fans of that IP with a fresh take. This game doesn't seem to do either.
a) Hundreds of people, including 2 of the 4 DT reviewers, began reading the books because of the game. b) Many players of the game, including 2 of the 4 DT reviewers, were excited to see artistic representations of the characters. So your comment is a bit weird.
@@StevenStJohn-kj9eb a) What about the game excited "hundreds" of people to check out the books? I can't find any data to back that up. b) "Artistic representations" could be posters, fan art, art books, etc. They didn't need to be cardboard cards to get the same effect. Like they said in the review, you could paste any IP onto this game and have the same artistic representation. Seems like a waste of money to produce a game that isn't more expansive.
@@ralelunar Red Rising Facebook group.
I started reading the books only because the game was released, so #1 worked with me. I have thus far finished the first book and have the second book ready to go as soon as I have a little time.
Fantasy Realms is the superior game. Combos are more fun and interesting, gameplay is smoother and quicker. Red Rising is long and a tedious turn results in something as simple as moving up a track. Art is amazing but I would never pick it over Fantasy Realms.
I agree that the combos are more interesting in Fantasy Realms. But at the same time, it is much more luck based whether you are going to hit those big combos. You see fewer cards overall in Fantasy Realms. and greys and oranges in Red Rising can change suits and names respectively, so there is a higher chance of completing combos in Red Rising. There are 8 cards out at the beginning of Red Rising, and base Fantasy Realms ends when you see the 10th card out. The expansion ends at 12 cards, but then you have 3 more suits added, so it's the same issue with more variance in scores in Fantasy Realms. I think both are extremely fun, but Fantasy Realms is more luck based than Red Rising.
Love these posts that reduce a game down to such simple acts. Guess what, you can say that about any game.
@@windbane69 agree on a lot of this, but I think the flaw in Red Rising it has luck in it that is more devastating and lasts for a longer time. If a player gets extra cards and you get none, it feels terrible and you’re probably going to lose. If you get a card taken away, you’re playing the whole game down a card, and you’ll probably lose. Fantasy realms has you shooting for combos based on your own decisions and limited time frame, and the randomness is more palpable based on the game length.
Doubt this is meant for people who already own FR. Either way, RR isn't tedious at all. Turns are quick and satisfying with the planet abilities
@@kumanight I disagree. The AP that is caused drags the turns down, with players checking cards that are covered by others, as well as planning on what cards to play based on the previous turn. I agree with Tom a lot in this case. In addition, the small actions of placing a cube and moving up a track or getting a resource don’t merit the down time. I was so excited about this game because Jamey loved Fantasy Realms, but it took a great system and added a cool theme but hindered it with unnecessary mechanics.
Weird, the theme seems super weak here. Sorta feels like a flop coming from SM to be honest.
These were my favourite books of recent years. Unfortunately it sounds like the game really isn’t for me
I'm glad I played Red Rising before watching this review, because I like it much better than any of the 4. Amazed that it did not get a Seal of Approval rating from any of them. Boo!! #TomIsWrong
I'm glad you enjoy the game!
I'm surprised they gave it as high as 6! Possibly in order not to offend Jamey Stegmeier (who i respect a lot).
Helium 3 😂