I worked on a stadium design for my architectural thesis, I rightly called it a professional football club complex - a mixed use space with public spaces, a museum, an E-sports arena, pay to play are, flex office and retail spaces. This was to rethink how a stadium works, to avoid the death of a stadium ( happens to many sporting venues after WC, Olympics etc) stadium have to be used on a day to day basis. Now I’m in real estate development and hoping I get to develop a stadium one day 😂
@@rea_art_leha apart from good seating and f&b? I'd say you got to look at a stadium more than just a place to watch a match on the weekend and you'll know what else could be needed since financial viability is a big thing for stadiums.
@@saifbukhari53444:30 they use a quote from a guy who works at a company that builds stadiums. He talks about the costs but obviously doesn’t mention his company’s fee
Never mind the cost of a stadium, a kitchen bin set me back £8 at my local supermarket the other day. And it was only knee high - it couldn't even fit a bin liner.
Sainsbury's have Ibuprofen for £1!!!!!!! The staff must have thought I was insane stood there swearing at the shelf before I could get the composure to walk out and buy it for 39p in Heron 😂
Thinking about Old Wembley Stadium, it was said fans could smell the toilets from the stands. Sticking with OWS, I was watching Euro 96 Relived back in 2021, and was shocked to see a fan lighting up on the lower stand.
One key aspect missing in this video is land Acquisition and where the stadium is built … I remember the Wembley fiasco where the exact same stadium could have been built in Birmingham for 30% of the initial proposed cost due to land, logistics and labour availability… Liverpool for a 180m managed to redevelop both the main stand and Anfield road end which increased the capacity from 45k to 63k as well as massively improving corporate hospitality (which is 80% of Match day revenue) general sale tickets don’t really contribute massively to the annual turnover … spurs stadium cost 1bln due to delays construction issues (complexity of design) and the added extras for the NFL games…
In respect of Tottenham Stadium, the £1bn figure actually represents the fully capitalised costs attributed to the Northumberland Development Project (NDP) This describes a 3 Phase programme of works, involving: Club office, retail and college (1), Stadium and public realm (2) and residential and hotel (3). Within that £1bn, the actual build cost for the stadium is probably around £5-600m. This compares with the quoted £350m cost of the original (KSS, I think?) design which was of a similar footprint but was around 55k and didn’t involve a removable pitch. It is quite reasonable to assume the additional engineering added £150-200m to the eventually built design. In respect of the land requirement, it is my understanding that THFC acquired parcels over 20yrs and also capitalised this into the mix (again, standard procedure) They stand to make a fortune should they ever progress with Phase 3 (residential / hotel) and sell the units. The last I saw, they’d made some recent changes to the planning application but it’s broadly the same scheme - so the commitment remains. It’s a very interesting project.
@@imconfused1237They do the same with SoFi Stadium, the $6 billion figure includes the entire Hollywood Park development and the actual figure for the stadium is just over $2 billion.
@@timknott5856But does it? London might not be the most central of places, but it's probably the best connected - most of the major road and rail routes converge there, which makes it relatively easy for most of the country to get to
The part at 3:25 stating fans as customers is something I have been preaching to people all along, the ones who get too emotional about our game still can't handle the fact that fans have always been customers and only dim people don't see it that way
Agreed. I think people are afraid of that balance shifting and justifiably so but there’s always been guaranteed money in the game. What does bother me, and something I hadn’t thought about before is the NFL’s “pack up and move the team across the country” thing. Don’t like that one bit. Pretty sure I can rest easy knowing that fans would never allow anything like it in this sport. The day that a club in England moves for money is the day I stop watching the Prem
There is a distinction though. Fans feel less like customers when the 'club' feels more like a 'club' than a brand for its fans. Letting fans and members have a say in club matters definitely helps that dynamic be realised. The EPL has lost it, every fan is a transaction number to them.
@@aerochrise great point I had entirely forgotten about MK Dons 👀 I’ve got no interest in playing the morality card, I’d likely only allow it to get in my way of enjoying football if it’s directly related to my club or to our top competitors. Bit hypocritical tbh. Unfortunately I think most fans would feel the same and that’s the only thing holding the door open for these types of decisions to be made
I still don't get how fans in America are ok with that, like you live in your home city go watch your team in what ever sport take your kids enjoy yourself and then they say we're moving cities and you're supposed to say OK and move on
Real Estate, utility and fuel and raw material costs, labour costs, consultancy fees, bureaucracy. It's not unique to football stadiums. Look at Edinburgh trams, Heathrow terminal 5, and don't get me started on HS2
This is another reason you are seeing the big city clubs, and it’s a perpetuating cycle, it’s going to suit the big city clubs. Yes good stadiums and hospitality facilities with the opportunity to sell food merchandise and an “ experience”is important. It further pulls football away from its working class roots. this means the cost of going to a football match is going to be much more expensive and that’s what we have seen over the last 20 plus years anyway.
He fought in WW2, was an acclaimed actor, sang heavy metal and now he's a subject matter expert on football stadiums. What can Christopher Lee not do?!!!
Another cost sometimes depends on where the team wants to build the stadium. The denser the area, the more public consultations, impact studies, councils to get approval from, etc.
One thing I will point out is the architects that worked on Brightons stadium also worked on Boltons, Huddersfields and wigan. One of the main remits was cheap but styleish and the capacity (around 30,000 meaning nothing special or expensive for more tiers), materials used and the designs were built around that. Which meant you could get a stadium that looks just as good as any at the top especially the reebok stadium yet for a 10th of the price.
I work in building construction and this video was a great explainer. It’s not just football stadiums. Every building has become more and more complex because of better interior MEPT systems, making the cost per square foot of buildings skyrocket.
Football stadiums now are purely just elite hospitality zones and, if you're lucky, they might put seats available for supporters somewhere in the ground too.
I read somewhere that Spurs' stadium has the best wi fi in Europe. I thought that's a bit sad. There you are, supposedly having a fantastic experience that has cost you hundreds of pounds. Why do you want to look at your phone? But then, I note, when watching matches on tv, fans seem to be performing to the cameras on their phones when they celebrate goals etc. Very odd, if you ask me (which nobody did).
Quiet as it's kept, this whole trend began with the opening of Camden Yards in Baltimore in 1992. The idea of a stadium as a destination in and of itself (and as the central focus of a downtown) was first use-tested with that facility. Since then, it's only accelerated. There's a reason why we Americans have more stadiums than anywhere in the world. Heck, we have universities with bigger stadiums than some nations' national stadium (Michigan, Penn State, etc). Nowadays, a veritable shopping mall with world class dining are standard features of new stadiums. Once you turn your stadium into a moneyspinner, it can be so year round (conventions, concerts, etc). I'm actually looking forward to the development of new ways of protecting/developing the playing surface while still maintaining its multi-use status (like State Farm stadium with the field on tracks).
That's mental if all things considered. Imagine taking same loan as Spurs right now and repaying same amount 2.5 times more. Levy masterclass truly what he built before anyone could imagine.
Yeah Daniel Levy IS a financial genius. He takes a lot of flak for how he runs the footballing side, but there’s better CEO than him in the Premier League. £600m at 2.6% = roughly £15m per annum to service the interest. That is peanuts to a business turning over £450m a year! Their commercial numbers are insane.
But that's the American system. "Build me a new stadium with all the gadgets, whistles and bells or I go elsewhere. And remember that City B and City C will build it and I won't have to pay one cent!!" That and the promises that construction of said stadium will "pay for itself" X number of years. Six years later, that new stadium doesn't have enough corporate suites. Cities that host minor league baseball go through this every two or four years (the length of a development contract). Mind that most of these cities barely have 5000 in population for a 8500-seat stadium and at the bottom of hierarchical structure!! 😕
@@alexthomas2067 the board. Debts are just a symptom of this and only the tip of the iceberg. It's not actually a problem inofitself nor is it unique to them. Look at Monaco, Borussia Dortmund, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Tottenham, Porto and Ajax since the turn of the century. All are debt free, can't keep any world class players and all have empty trophy cabinets (besides a few obscure domestic cups here and there). They're essentially practise teams (like Real B). Even if they make (then loose) the odd CL final or mount a title charge. Porto are the only team on that list to win it this century and they beat Monaco. ...tbf to Barca, there was only one replacement in world football after Neymar left - and he joined him at PSG. Barca's on field problems started when MSN disbanded and they couldn't compete with their yardstick - Real Madrid - anymore. Real went from strength to strength whilst transitioning managers back and forth. United went from 1st to 7th after SAF retired. Real won 3 CLs in a row after replacing Mourinho and Ancelotti. Post Neymar, the added pressure on an aging Suarez and Messi (along with some counter-intuitive signings) lead to their downfall on the pitch. Barca simply backed the wrong horse. Neymar was Messi's heir, just like Messi took over from Eto'o/ Ronaldinho. Then Mbappe/ Neymar at PSG. Imo Bellingham and Vinicius have already overtaken Mbappe. He's not even competing with Kane or Haaland and last season he lost out to a mid 30s Benzema (in the Ballon D'or voting). If Barca had kept MSN together, Mbappe would have most likely joined Barca - not PSG or RM. And they'd still be competitive. MSN might have been and gone by now, but their ability to attract the best players would have remained and Real wouldn't have had all that dominance. The momentum has shifted, they won't catch Real now for a decade if they're lucky - if Real drop the ball. They've lost their ability to attract and chastise the best players in the world in the cult of La Masia. They haven't got the reputation or the manager to attract world class talent anymore. When we were in the play ground as kids if one team was thrashing another we'd stop the match, reselect teams and start again. If PSG and Barca did that 5 years ago both their problems on the field would be solved but commerce has ruined the game and will continue to do so as long as we consume.
Health an safety is more strict. Hillsborough is a big reason fornit in the uk . Also new technologies and more of a focus on hospitality contributes to it.
I just want to say that, as an American, the fans are not the fickle ones. It’s the owners who are fickle if they don’t get their tax breaks and subsidies from the local government to build new stadiums, even if they aren’t actually unfit for purpose. It’s the rich using our teams as playthings rather than fans being unwilling to show up.
Absolute facts here. You can't tell me, for example, St Louis didn't deserve to keep The Rams... but there's more money in Los Angeles so it didn't matter what happened. While I'm very American in wanting my sports to have salary caps and playoffs... I always envy the European model of teams being clubs and for the most part being forced to stay where they're from.
@@antidisestablishmentariani-sm it wouldn’t have an effect. Ticket sales aren’t the main source of revenue. It’s like the Glazers at United, everything is so commercialized that even teams with the most obvious thing to protest (like a blatantly racist name) are pretty insulated from fan action. Additionally it’s a monopoly and a closed league. They control the entire market and they’re expanding it overseas, basketball in China and the NFL in Europe. They can always just shift markets. That’s what Stan Kroenke did with the Rams.
Don’t forget that they all need to use their stadium as something to show up the next stadium in line. When Jerry Jones built his stadium with the giant screens in the middle, everyone suddenly needed screens that can out-do that. Now all of a sudden, you’re seeing these giant wrap-around screens that wrap around the field. European billionaires aren’t immune from this, they want the shiny bells and whistles too.
Simple. Stadiums now have to be multitask and multifuncional, the arena has to make money not only in match day. They need to held different events besides football matches.
If Tottenham's stadium cost a billion and Arsenal's stadium cost 390 million, then surely Spurs have alot better deal than Arsenal. I mean, Tottenham's stadium is over 10 times better than Arsenal's soulless little rat nest.
@@marcileiseth1500 Spurs just like to give other teams a chance. Imagine how big a club they would be if they won trophies on a regular basis. It wouldn't be fair on the rest.
It was very sad Spurs left White Hart Lane, really it should have been Grade 2 listed in my opinion. Even Gary Neville seems to have recently bought into this guff that you need a new stadium to have a good football team. But if you think about it, almost unlimited funding has been the cause of success at Chelsea and Man City, while Liverpool, Leicester and Villa have have done well on the pitch without £1 billion stadiums.
Our new stadium is amazing, but I think I speak for most spurs fans when I say we miss White Hart Lane. There's something so special about old English grounds.
From a united fan I find it a travesty destroying historic stadiums we've already lost white heart Lane Highbury Upton Park and soon Goodison Park will be pulled down as well And with how badly our owners have neglected Old Trafford I fear its time is limited as well
The generation that knee WHL would soon pass away. The new stadium will serve generations to come for another 100 years. Let's not just think of ourselves. I prefer to look at it in a philosophical way. The old girl transformed with a new majestical body, fit enough for another 100 years.. The club never left their spiritual home. It just transformed...
@@kurtpunchesthings2411 I feel bad for West Ham, they didn't even get a nice new stadium like Bramley Moore Docks, it's a shame they're stuck in that bowl
Football clubs aren't moved like Franchises ONLY because the countries there in are a lot smaller. In England, after all the teams from all the divisions there just isn't any major room to relocate a team. Where in the US there are FAR cities that have space for team than cities that already have a team. So US owners use this to pressure local taxpayers into paying more money or they move the team.
Happy New Year 2024 to all of you from around the world,good friends!!!In this topic,since the demands would be more to spend to build most of the stadiums expensively,I do not think these are necessary unless if some of the neccessities are needed for the fans to feel comfortable to attend their respective teams footballing matches to get the facilities which they need,good friends!!!:-D
A few days ago I requested for a quote to put floor and bathroom tiles in my little house. The figures I got means I'll need another year to save up for that
What if future football fields got built inside sphere like gigantic screens that show fans watching the game from their homes & no need to stands or actual stadiums🤔
It's a tax dodge. Say a club earned £200, in excess revenue, they'd pay around £50m in tax, but if instead they spend £160m on a new stadium, they'll only pay £10m in tax and they'll get grants to help build it and a giant boost to their valuation/collateral for future investments. Also, if you trace the firms who build/design the stadiums, my bet is a large portion of that cash goes into an international black hole.
I'll never understand a CPO member who's obsessed with staying at Stamford bridge. There's not enough space to expand. Just let the owners buy off Earls court and rebuild a stadium there while the players play at the Bridge till the new stadium is finished. Seems like a win for me. (Plus Stamford bridge can may be transformed into apartment building like how Highbury was.)
Stadiums are insanely expensive. Not even City owner owns City stadium, he just sponsors it instead. In Italy it's even crazier. Only Juventus actually owns their stadium and they had to lower it by 20k seats in order to afford it..
Serie A clubs are going through an abyss of routines and finances to build new profitable stadia. Juventus caught the sale with the Agnelli urgently-needed money filling the municipal dry coffers.
Maybe it’s the American bias but £1 billion does not seem a lot.. Raiders stadium (Vegas) was at $2 billion and Rams (Los Angeles) was almost $5 billion That Selhurst park stand seems like a bargain
So this is why the team that I support doesn't have a stadium, at least we were dominating in the last seasons, we did win a title in 2023? No, but 2024 will be awesome ⚫️🔴.
The stadium has always been costly to make. I remember my city Bengaluru in india had a football stadium that was supposed to have 90,000+ capacity stadium and when fifa president joao havelenge visited in 1971 he was impressed with the development and promised to bring a south American team to play in Bengaluru. But later the cost skyrocketed and in the end they had to settle for around 60k and it was absolutely horrible in design. Now it went to 4,000 today and is going to be demolished in a few months for a new stadium which will be at the capacity of 40,000.
It’s harder to do those US stadiums in UK because realistically what are other big markets aside from London? I don’t think there’s a lot of areas in the UK with significant population growth in the next several decades, so def there’s a ceiling that these teams cannot surpass popularity-wise and revenue-wise. Another thing is the level of Tottenham stadium I think is too high even for Premier League-level clubs, but even in a big market like London, it would be ridiculous to have multiple 60,000+ capacity $1BN+ stadiums concentrate in the same area. Not even LA and NY can afford that much resources. Something like MLS-style stadiums with medium capacity but which offer the same hospitality experience is a more realistic goal imo. Also, English teams cannot relocate like American ones aside from few teams like Wimbledon. If a club is gonna stick around for a long time then it’s best to build a stadium with best possible life expectancy with rooms for expansions and renovations. Something like 50 years before a major rebuild is good. In the States we have some success stories like that in New Orleans and Green Bay but also stadiums thats relatively young but were not far-sighted enough teams either wanted to build whole new ones like Jacksonville and Washington or planned to relocate or in some cases already did like the Rams moving from a then-20-yrs-old dome in St. Louis with 15 more years left on the lease to the most expensive stadium in the world in LA.
"what are other big markets aside from London?" is that a serious question? Manchester and Liverpool are the obvious markets. The question isn't if those cities could fill two 60000+ stadiums for Prem teams. It's just if the ticket price would be high enough to justify it.
I'm convinced that you're undervaluing the impact of football in european countries, but especially in the UK. I believe that London could have 7 or 8 60K+ stadiums with hospitality and they'd all have a healthy fan base attending games. Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, West Ham, Crystal Palace, Brentford, Fulham... There's already 7 London teams in the Premier League as it is. That city can sustain that. And I didn't even mention QPR, Charlton Athletic or Millwall that might one day make it there too (again or for the first time).
@@mnm1273yes, I don’t consider them to be big markets. Medium markets at best. Manchester City couldn’t even fill out their 48,000 seaters on a daily basis even tho they’re the best teams in the world. If Manchester only has 1 team then ok they could pack 70k seaters fine, but still doesn’t make it a big market like London. Liverpool also is not rich. Not even an economic wonder in the UK. These cities are not growing and some are even declining. The UK can’t simply afford like the US bc thats a ridiculously vast country. If we compare these clubs to college teams rather than pro sport teams in terms of the support then I can get the perspectives. A lot of college towns can fill 90k seaters even tho the market is not huge by any means. College teams are also bound to their communities like soccer clubs in Europe. If goes by that then yes, Manchester and Liverpool can do fine with large seaters. But, u simply get less money out of hospitality bc in reality despite being smaller, NFL stadiums make more than college stadiums. Premier League is different tho bc its popular worldwide and there’s that big consumer base from South Asia that will spend money whenever they visit the UK.
@@Mebsutau can stop at Arsenal Tottenham Chelsea and West Ham. Like I said, not even LA or NY can afford vast land resources for these constructions. Some NFL cities even regret building oversized stadiums so hoping EFL teams to get the same seaters is very unrealistic. The consumer base here is more willing to spend than in Europe and thats a fact. Everyone is complaining about ticket prices in soccer nowadays. These I highly doubt will spend much towards hospitality. This is the equivalent of college football fans in the US than NFL fans. Sure, a lot of college football stadiums are way bigger than NFL stadiums, but a lot of them don’t have great hospitality bc they know they’re a school and cant expand their fan base the way a pro sport team does. As the result, NFL stadiums make more money with less seats but better hospitality. I agree European clubs can reach a wider audience, but 1) in a crowded market and 2) with a weaker consumer base, most Premier League and EFL Championship clubs dont need NFL-size venues. Unlike NFL teams, most of these clubs are heavily in-debt already. MLS-size venues are by far the better options. Some of these venues already offered better wifi than Old Trafford or Emirates Stadium for example.
@@HungNguyen-qr7bt "Manchester City couldn’t even fill out their 48,000 seaters on a daily basis" This season Man City have averaged 52000 in attendance. Closer to 53000 if we only include league games (European games are the only real cases where City struggles to fill seats). They fill their stadium. 60000+ is only a 20% increase, given that City ticket costs are high increasing attendance would be simple. That's how the MLB has such high attendances, average ticket prices are lower.
3:14, only about a quarter will be spent on structural engineering,so the rest is vanity and voodoo economics.I want to squeeze more money from our fans on match day to pay off a massive debt with the bank which I created with a vanity project and the vague possibility of a Taylor Swift concert.Madness.
Granted, sufficient infrastructure like electricity, water and amenities are needed for fan experience, though yeah most are pushing either to empty the wallet, or to instead the more well off fans or tourists.
@@CassiopeiaOnYT I have to own up to having invited for the first time ever to a box a couple of weeks back,prematch drinks,food etc and as soon as I win the lottery I'm getting my own and screw the plebs.
The fact that Manchester United with a rotting stadium makes that much money makes you wonder how much they can make with a better stadium. Glazernomics is just bad
By better stadium you mean renovating our Home what we need is to fix our roof and a slight expansion plan that was featured in a video that will keep within the current style of old Trafford yes this will mean our stadium will be closed for a few years but we've done it before back in ww2 when much of Old Trafford was decimated by the Luftwaffe we played at Maine Road for a few seasons can definitely do that again with the Etihad
a high percentage of parc des princes are vip hospitality to make the most out of the vast amount of business associates and rich tourists in paris, the hospitality packages make more revenue than all other normal seating.
So greed and factors having nothing to do with the game. If i want a 3 course meal ill go to a restaurant. Absolute garbage. Restaurant stadiums with the atmosphere of a playground easter party.
I dont understand how Enlgish football managed to import the worst part mainland european football, the round stadiums. What a shame that old square stadiums are being dumped for these ugly and soulless stadiums....
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
That bit on Brighton's stadium costing less than Caicedo is outrageous
Crazy asf 😅
So true😂
Agreed
Christopher Lee was great in the Star Wars movies.
Yeah it had me baffled too.
Why I love Tifo. They make videos on topics that are knowingly or unknowingly in my mind
He should make a video about the rats playing EA FC 24.
@@JamesBond77FIFA is already dead, the name change killed it.
lmaooooo @@JamesBond77
I worked on a stadium design for my architectural thesis, I rightly called it a professional football club complex - a mixed use space with public spaces, a museum, an E-sports arena, pay to play are, flex office and retail spaces. This was to rethink how a stadium works, to avoid the death of a stadium ( happens to many sporting venues after WC, Olympics etc) stadium have to be used on a day to day basis.
Now I’m in real estate development and hoping I get to develop a stadium one day 😂
💪
Hey what do you need inside a stadium what is actually needed?
@@rea_art_leha apart from good seating and f&b? I'd say you got to look at a stadium more than just a place to watch a match on the weekend and you'll know what else could be needed since financial viability is a big thing for stadiums.
You failed to mention consultancy and project management costs. Both can be vast overheads on highly complex build programmes such as these.
Yup and if you’re quoting from a man from one of these firms; they are unlikely to add themselves into the cost mix.
@@MAC_ABCwhat do you mean by this?
@@saifbukhari53444:30 they use a quote from a guy who works at a company that builds stadiums. He talks about the costs but obviously doesn’t mention his company’s fee
Never mind the cost of a stadium, a kitchen bin set me back £8 at my local supermarket the other day. And it was only knee high - it couldn't even fit a bin liner.
Sainsbury's have Ibuprofen for £1!!!!!!! The staff must have thought I was insane stood there swearing at the shelf before I could get the composure to walk out and buy it for 39p in Heron 😂
Even damn plastic items are costing a fortune these days
@kkgt6591 hello mate, opinion on clearlake capital selling captain gallagher. Opinion on striker we should bring in this January
@@meentage sell him, sell sterling too.
@@kkgt6591 lmao 🤣 sterling and maatsen can leave
Thinking about Old Wembley Stadium, it was said fans could smell the toilets from the stands. Sticking with OWS, I was watching Euro 96 Relived back in 2021, and was shocked to see a fan lighting up on the lower stand.
One key aspect missing in this video is land Acquisition and where the stadium is built … I remember the Wembley fiasco where the exact same stadium could have been built in Birmingham for 30% of the initial proposed cost due to land, logistics and labour availability… Liverpool for a 180m managed to redevelop both the main stand and Anfield road end which increased the capacity from 45k to 63k as well as massively improving corporate hospitality (which is 80% of
Match day revenue) general sale tickets don’t really contribute massively to the annual turnover … spurs stadium cost 1bln due to delays construction issues (complexity of design) and the added extras for the NFL games…
Yeah but it's Birmingham. No one would go there, even for a football match at Wembley.
@@janermaher your statement makes no sense … a national stadium is a national stadium lad … being in Birmingham makes it more accessible too ..
In respect of Tottenham Stadium, the £1bn figure actually represents the fully capitalised costs attributed to the Northumberland Development Project (NDP) This describes a 3 Phase programme of works, involving: Club office, retail and college (1), Stadium and public realm (2) and residential and hotel (3).
Within that £1bn, the actual build cost for the stadium is probably around £5-600m. This compares with the quoted £350m cost of the original (KSS, I think?) design which was of a similar footprint but was around 55k and didn’t involve a removable pitch. It is quite reasonable to assume the additional engineering added £150-200m to the eventually built design.
In respect of the land requirement, it is my understanding that THFC acquired parcels over 20yrs and also capitalised this into the mix (again, standard procedure) They stand to make a fortune should they ever progress with Phase 3 (residential / hotel) and sell the units. The last I saw, they’d made some recent changes to the planning application but it’s broadly the same scheme - so the commitment remains. It’s a very interesting project.
@@imconfused1237They do the same with SoFi Stadium, the $6 billion figure includes the entire Hollywood Park development and the actual figure for the stadium is just over $2 billion.
@@timknott5856But does it? London might not be the most central of places, but it's probably the best connected - most of the major road and rail routes converge there, which makes it relatively easy for most of the country to get to
The part at 3:25 stating fans as customers is something I have been preaching to people all along, the ones who get too emotional about our game still can't handle the fact that fans have always been customers and only dim people don't see it that way
Agreed. I think people are afraid of that balance shifting and justifiably so but there’s always been guaranteed money in the game. What does bother me, and something I hadn’t thought about before is the NFL’s “pack up and move the team across the country” thing. Don’t like that one bit. Pretty sure I can rest easy knowing that fans would never allow anything like it in this sport. The day that a club in England moves for money is the day I stop watching the Prem
@@IHamilton9320it has happened before with the creation of MK Dons by moving Wimbledon fc
There is a distinction though. Fans feel less like customers when the 'club' feels more like a 'club' than a brand for its fans. Letting fans and members have a say in club matters definitely helps that dynamic be realised. The EPL has lost it, every fan is a transaction number to them.
@@aerochrise great point I had entirely forgotten about MK Dons 👀 I’ve got no interest in playing the morality card, I’d likely only allow it to get in my way of enjoying football if it’s directly related to my club or to our top competitors. Bit hypocritical tbh. Unfortunately I think most fans would feel the same and that’s the only thing holding the door open for these types of decisions to be made
I still don't get how fans in America are ok with that, like you live in your home city go watch your team in what ever sport take your kids enjoy yourself and then they say we're moving cities and you're supposed to say OK and move on
Real Estate, utility and fuel and raw material costs, labour costs, consultancy fees, bureaucracy. It's not unique to football stadiums. Look at Edinburgh trams, Heathrow terminal 5, and don't get me started on HS2
Happy New Year to you Tifo and everyone who’s viewed this video. Wishing your teams and especially you the best in 2024.
This is another reason you are seeing the big city clubs, and it’s a perpetuating cycle, it’s going to suit the big city clubs. Yes good stadiums and hospitality facilities with the opportunity to sell food merchandise and an “ experience”is important. It further pulls football away from its working class roots. this means the cost of going to a football match is going to be much more expensive and that’s what we have seen over the last 20 plus years anyway.
He fought in WW2, was an acclaimed actor, sang heavy metal and now he's a subject matter expert on football stadiums. What can Christopher Lee not do?!!!
Another cost sometimes depends on where the team wants to build the stadium. The denser the area, the more public consultations, impact studies, councils to get approval from, etc.
One thing I will point out is the architects that worked on Brightons stadium also worked on Boltons, Huddersfields and wigan. One of the main remits was cheap but styleish and the capacity (around 30,000 meaning nothing special or expensive for more tiers), materials used and the designs were built around that. Which meant you could get a stadium that looks just as good as any at the top especially the reebok stadium yet for a 10th of the price.
Football stadiums fascinate me. Thanks Tifo and Happy New Year!
I work in building construction and this video was a great explainer. It’s not just football stadiums. Every building has become more and more complex because of better interior MEPT systems, making the cost per square foot of buildings skyrocket.
Football stadiums now are purely just elite hospitality zones and, if you're lucky, they might put seats available for supporters somewhere in the ground too.
The fancy seats at Tottenham let's them come in even when there's no match so they can have drinks and bring guests in
I read somewhere that Spurs' stadium has the best wi fi in Europe. I thought that's a bit sad. There you are, supposedly having a fantastic experience that has cost you hundreds of pounds. Why do you want to look at your phone? But then, I note, when watching matches on tv, fans seem to be performing to the cameras on their phones when they celebrate goals etc. Very odd, if you ask me (which nobody did).
Reminds me of when Atletico Madrid fans protested about Wi-Fi some years back.
Gotta post a photo at the stadium on social media. How else will people know you're there ?😊
Quiet as it's kept, this whole trend began with the opening of Camden Yards in Baltimore in 1992. The idea of a stadium as a destination in and of itself (and as the central focus of a downtown) was first use-tested with that facility. Since then, it's only accelerated. There's a reason why we Americans have more stadiums than anywhere in the world. Heck, we have universities with bigger stadiums than some nations' national stadium (Michigan, Penn State, etc). Nowadays, a veritable shopping mall with world class dining are standard features of new stadiums. Once you turn your stadium into a moneyspinner, it can be so year round (conventions, concerts, etc). I'm actually looking forward to the development of new ways of protecting/developing the playing surface while still maintaining its multi-use status (like State Farm stadium with the field on tracks).
Refinanced at 2.6%, you'll never sing that!
That's mental if all things considered. Imagine taking same loan as Spurs right now and repaying same amount 2.5 times more. Levy masterclass truly what he built before anyone could imagine.
Yeah Daniel Levy IS a financial genius. He takes a lot of flak for how he runs the footballing side, but there’s better CEO than him in the Premier League.
£600m at 2.6% = roughly £15m per annum to service the interest. That is peanuts to a business turning over £450m a year! Their commercial numbers are insane.
@@imconfused1237 Levy micromanages every single transfer till last penny, there's no way he doesnt care about giving 15m annum interest to banks.
@@edenhazard27512.6% represents VERY cheap debt! Levy’s used that to build a cash cow. £15m is peanuts when the ROI is 5x
What's wrong with refinancing at 2.6%? Are you saying it's a good thing or bad thing?
Happy new year Tifo!
Not a new stadium but Leicester are upgrading one of the stands and also building an arena, hotel and redoing the area.
Tifo next video : Why players rest when they are tired ?
Moral of the story - don't take out a loan unless you're not the one who's gonna pay it back.
Is that you Glazers?
@@kw8263 I wish lol.
But that's the American system. "Build me a new stadium with all the gadgets, whistles and bells or I go elsewhere. And remember that City B and City C will build it and I won't have to pay one cent!!"
That and the promises that construction of said stadium will "pay for itself" X number of years. Six years later, that new stadium doesn't have enough corporate suites.
Cities that host minor league baseball go through this every two or four years (the length of a development contract). Mind that most of these cities barely have 5000 in population for a 8500-seat stadium and at the bottom of hierarchical structure!! 😕
TIFO back at it again with an answer to another question I didn't have and didn't know I needed
Several years later and not even the price of a brand new stadium has caught up with Neymar.
Which makes it all the crazier how Barcelona burned through all that money and are in so much debt with little to show for it.
like spurs with the bale money @@magivkmeister6166
@@magivkmeister6166 everyone knows what the problem is and it's not debts. Even Barca fans know - and they're usually deluded.
@@rickenfataniaI’m probably being dense, but I thought debts was a huge problem for Barca. What is the problem?
@@alexthomas2067 the board. Debts are just a symptom of this and only the tip of the iceberg. It's not actually a problem inofitself nor is it unique to them. Look at Monaco, Borussia Dortmund, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Tottenham, Porto and Ajax since the turn of the century. All are debt free, can't keep any world class players and all have empty trophy cabinets (besides a few obscure domestic cups here and there). They're essentially practise teams (like Real B). Even if they make (then loose) the odd CL final or mount a title charge. Porto are the only team on that list to win it this century and they beat Monaco.
...tbf to Barca, there was only one replacement in world football after Neymar left - and he joined him at PSG.
Barca's on field problems started when MSN disbanded and they couldn't compete with their yardstick - Real Madrid - anymore. Real went from strength to strength whilst transitioning managers back and forth. United went from 1st to 7th after SAF retired. Real won 3 CLs in a row after replacing Mourinho and Ancelotti.
Post Neymar, the added pressure on an aging Suarez and Messi (along with some counter-intuitive signings) lead to their downfall on the pitch. Barca simply backed the wrong horse.
Neymar was Messi's heir, just like Messi took over from Eto'o/ Ronaldinho. Then Mbappe/ Neymar at PSG. Imo Bellingham and Vinicius have already overtaken Mbappe. He's not even competing with Kane or Haaland and last season he lost out to a mid 30s Benzema (in the Ballon D'or voting).
If Barca had kept MSN together, Mbappe would have most likely joined Barca - not PSG or RM. And they'd still be competitive. MSN might have been and gone by now, but their ability to attract the best players would have remained and Real wouldn't have had all that dominance. The momentum has shifted, they won't catch Real now for a decade if they're lucky - if Real drop the ball.
They've lost their ability to attract and chastise the best players in the world in the cult of La Masia. They haven't got the reputation or the manager to attract world class talent anymore.
When we were in the play ground as kids if one team was thrashing another we'd stop the match, reselect teams and start again. If PSG and Barca did that 5 years ago both their problems on the field would be solved but commerce has ruined the game and will continue to do so as long as we consume.
Health an safety is more strict. Hillsborough is a big reason fornit in the uk . Also new technologies and more of a focus on hospitality contributes to it.
🤦♂️ wrong as always on the cost of Tottenham stadium, it wasn't £1 billion, it cost £450million the whole project (including hotels) cost £1billion.
Happy new year Tifo
I didn't know I needed to hear this,thank you Tifo.
Do a video about why only Epl clubs can afford to build stadiums while other leagues struggle.
Can believe Brighton’s stadium cost less that Caicedo only for him to flop
Calm yourself. Caicedo has been at Chelsea for 4 months, and isn't even 22. But Brighton's stadium costing less than his transfer fee is ridiculous
Hey for Brighton doesn't effect them they got a huge pay day
I just want to say that, as an American, the fans are not the fickle ones. It’s the owners who are fickle if they don’t get their tax breaks and subsidies from the local government to build new stadiums, even if they aren’t actually unfit for purpose. It’s the rich using our teams as playthings rather than fans being unwilling to show up.
Yeah, Mr Lee doesn't seem to be the most kosher individual.
Absolute facts here. You can't tell me, for example, St Louis didn't deserve to keep The Rams... but there's more money in Los Angeles so it didn't matter what happened. While I'm very American in wanting my sports to have salary caps and playoffs... I always envy the European model of teams being clubs and for the most part being forced to stay where they're from.
why dont fans boycott then? fans are dont care about the club nor the location, a day at the stadium for social media clout is all that matters.
@@antidisestablishmentariani-sm it wouldn’t have an effect. Ticket sales aren’t the main source of revenue. It’s like the Glazers at United, everything is so commercialized that even teams with the most obvious thing to protest (like a blatantly racist name) are pretty insulated from fan action. Additionally it’s a monopoly and a closed league. They control the entire market and they’re expanding it overseas, basketball in China and the NFL in Europe. They can always just shift markets. That’s what Stan Kroenke did with the Rams.
Don’t forget that they all need to use their stadium as something to show up the next stadium in line. When Jerry Jones built his stadium with the giant screens in the middle, everyone suddenly needed screens that can out-do that. Now all of a sudden, you’re seeing these giant wrap-around screens that wrap around the field.
European billionaires aren’t immune from this, they want the shiny bells and whistles too.
Simple. Stadiums now have to be multitask and multifuncional, the arena has to make money not only in match day. They need to held different events besides football matches.
Tifo & answering questions i never had 🤝🏽
If Tottenham's stadium cost a billion and Arsenal's stadium cost 390 million, then surely Spurs have alot better deal than Arsenal. I mean, Tottenham's stadium is over 10 times better than Arsenal's soulless little rat nest.
Billion dollar stadium, and yet, you can fit all the contents of the trophy cabinet in a shoebox...
@@marcileiseth1500 Spurs just like to give other teams a chance. Imagine how big a club they would be if they won trophies on a regular basis. It wouldn't be fair on the rest.
@@jasonlomakin6722Ahhahahahahhahahaa lmao, you really think that? Spurs will never win anything
@@natsudama4604 One thing I do know is that Spurs are gonna do Arsenal on Sunday😁
Sure. Finally as Spurs fan you won smtg. This argument 😂
This channel is the best thing to ever happen in the football world.
So,Vampirism didn’t work out for Christopher Lee?
It was very sad Spurs left White Hart Lane, really it should have been Grade 2 listed in my opinion. Even Gary Neville seems to have recently bought into this guff that you need a new stadium to have a good football team. But if you think about it, almost unlimited funding has been the cause of success at Chelsea and Man City, while Liverpool, Leicester and Villa have have done well on the pitch without £1 billion stadiums.
Our new stadium is amazing, but I think I speak for most spurs fans when I say we miss White Hart Lane. There's something so special about old English grounds.
From a united fan I find it a travesty destroying historic stadiums we've already lost white heart Lane Highbury Upton Park and soon Goodison Park will be pulled down as well
And with how badly our owners have neglected Old Trafford I fear its time is limited as well
The generation that knee WHL would soon pass away.
The new stadium will serve generations to come for another 100 years. Let's not just think of ourselves.
I prefer to look at it in a philosophical way.
The old girl transformed with a new majestical body, fit enough for another 100 years.. The club never left their spiritual home. It just transformed...
@@kurtpunchesthings2411 I feel bad for West Ham, they didn't even get a nice new stadium like Bramley Moore Docks, it's a shame they're stuck in that bowl
Football clubs aren't moved like Franchises ONLY because the countries there in are a lot smaller. In England, after all the teams from all the divisions there just isn't any major room to relocate a team. Where in the US there are FAR cities that have space for team than cities that already have a team. So US owners use this to pressure local taxpayers into paying more money or they move the team.
3:42 Looking at you MK Dons. Shitebag franchise FC
Happy New Year 2024 to all of you from around the world,good friends!!!In this topic,since the demands would be more to spend to build most of the stadiums expensively,I do not think these are necessary unless if some of the neccessities are needed for the fans to feel comfortable to attend their respective teams footballing matches to get the facilities which they need,good friends!!!:-D
As a childhood Premier League fan from Pakistan and Finishing my civil engineering degree in US this video is perfect for me
Good luck for the future!
A few days ago I requested for a quote to put floor and bathroom tiles in my little house. The figures I got means I'll need another year to save up for that
Love your content can you make a video about Afghanistan national team please
Even renovating an already existing stadium could cost up to a billion such as the case with Camp Nou. That’s ridiculous
What if future football fields got built inside sphere like gigantic screens that show fans watching the game from their homes & no need to stands or actual stadiums🤔
Happy new year 🎉🎉🎉
Football clubs aren't franchises. Have you seen Milton Keynes?
Isn't this the same as the Athletic article they posted couple of weeks ago?
yeah, they seem to be doing that more often lately
Just play in the fields, like the good old days!
It also depends on the capacity of the stadium
It's a tax dodge. Say a club earned £200, in excess revenue, they'd pay around £50m in tax, but if instead they spend £160m on a new stadium, they'll only pay £10m in tax and they'll get grants to help build it and a giant boost to their valuation/collateral for future investments. Also, if you trace the firms who build/design the stadiums, my bet is a large portion of that cash goes into an international black hole.
Well when you sit in Bramely-Moore Dock maybe you’ll go “aye this quality is worth the 10pt deduction”
Patiently waiting for the Sensible Transfers series to begin.
How come no mention of brambley moore dock? :(
No mention of the new Everton stadium?
Yeah if you look at stadium MK that’s got a Hilton hotel in the main stand
You guys don't miss
...so corruption is not even mentioned?
Why didn't you mention Everton's new stadium 😢
Not a word about the new Bernabaue , hmnm
I'll never understand a CPO member who's obsessed with staying at Stamford bridge. There's not enough space to expand. Just let the owners buy off Earls court and rebuild a stadium there while the players play at the Bridge till the new stadium is finished. Seems like a win for me. (Plus Stamford bridge can may be transformed into apartment building like how Highbury was.)
Chelsea have been planning for years, is the new stadium even a possibility at this point?
Stadiums are insanely expensive. Not even City owner owns City stadium, he just sponsors it instead. In Italy it's even crazier. Only Juventus actually owns their stadium and they had to lower it by 20k seats in order to afford it..
City did try to buy it. The lease was worth more to the local council than the stadium itself
what's "M&E kit"?
Chelsea was going to be less then £1B in 2015 but the new one we looking at £1B - £2B
Serie A clubs are going through an abyss of routines and finances to build new profitable stadia. Juventus caught the sale with the Agnelli urgently-needed money filling the municipal dry coffers.
It cost South Africa $2bn for all their World Cup infrastructure. It's become such a huge bargain in a few years
Maybe it’s the American bias but £1 billion does not seem a lot..
Raiders stadium (Vegas) was at $2 billion and Rams (Los Angeles) was almost $5 billion
That Selhurst park stand seems like a bargain
Because the building companies get greedier every year!
A question no one asked. I mean why is any large engineering and construction project “expensive”?
So this is why the team that I support doesn't have a stadium, at least we were dominating in the last seasons, we did win a title in 2023? No, but 2024 will be awesome ⚫️🔴.
Greedy construction companies, the same ones willing to cut corners as seen with the THS.
Top tier quality entertainment
Is the extra cost worth it though?
This video should be like ten seconds "have you seen a stadium."
Sensible January transfer???
Now I know why Daniel Levy always smiling.
The stadium has always been costly to make.
I remember my city Bengaluru in india had a football stadium that was supposed to have 90,000+ capacity stadium and when fifa president joao havelenge visited in 1971 he was impressed with the development and promised to bring a south American team to play in Bengaluru. But later the cost skyrocketed and in the end they had to settle for around 60k and it was absolutely horrible in design.
Now it went to 4,000 today and is going to be demolished in a few months for a new stadium which will be at the capacity of 40,000.
bank of england interest rates at highest level since 2008 meltdown:
politicians: everything is fine, nothing to see here.
It’s harder to do those US stadiums in UK because realistically what are other big markets aside from London? I don’t think there’s a lot of areas in the UK with significant population growth in the next several decades, so def there’s a ceiling that these teams cannot surpass popularity-wise and revenue-wise. Another thing is the level of Tottenham stadium I think is too high even for Premier League-level clubs, but even in a big market like London, it would be ridiculous to have multiple 60,000+ capacity $1BN+ stadiums concentrate in the same area. Not even LA and NY can afford that much resources. Something like MLS-style stadiums with medium capacity but which offer the same hospitality experience is a more realistic goal imo. Also, English teams cannot relocate like American ones aside from few teams like Wimbledon. If a club is gonna stick around for a long time then it’s best to build a stadium with best possible life expectancy with rooms for expansions and renovations. Something like 50 years before a major rebuild is good. In the States we have some success stories like that in New Orleans and Green Bay but also stadiums thats relatively young but were not far-sighted enough teams either wanted to build whole new ones like Jacksonville and Washington or planned to relocate or in some cases already did like the Rams moving from a then-20-yrs-old dome in St. Louis with 15 more years left on the lease to the most expensive stadium in the world in LA.
"what are other big markets aside from London?" is that a serious question? Manchester and Liverpool are the obvious markets.
The question isn't if those cities could fill two 60000+ stadiums for Prem teams. It's just if the ticket price would be high enough to justify it.
I'm convinced that you're undervaluing the impact of football in european countries, but especially in the UK. I believe that London could have 7 or 8 60K+ stadiums with hospitality and they'd all have a healthy fan base attending games. Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, West Ham, Crystal Palace, Brentford, Fulham... There's already 7 London teams in the Premier League as it is. That city can sustain that. And I didn't even mention QPR, Charlton Athletic or Millwall that might one day make it there too (again or for the first time).
@@mnm1273yes, I don’t consider them to be big markets. Medium markets at best. Manchester City couldn’t even fill out their 48,000 seaters on a daily basis even tho they’re the best teams in the world. If Manchester only has 1 team then ok they could pack 70k seaters fine, but still doesn’t make it a big market like London. Liverpool also is not rich. Not even an economic wonder in the UK. These cities are not growing and some are even declining. The UK can’t simply afford like the US bc thats a ridiculously vast country. If we compare these clubs to college teams rather than pro sport teams in terms of the support then I can get the perspectives. A lot of college towns can fill 90k seaters even tho the market is not huge by any means. College teams are also bound to their communities like soccer clubs in Europe. If goes by that then yes, Manchester and Liverpool can do fine with large seaters. But, u simply get less money out of hospitality bc in reality despite being smaller, NFL stadiums make more than college stadiums. Premier League is different tho bc its popular worldwide and there’s that big consumer base from South Asia that will spend money whenever they visit the UK.
@@Mebsutau can stop at Arsenal Tottenham Chelsea and West Ham. Like I said, not even LA or NY can afford vast land resources for these constructions. Some NFL cities even regret building oversized stadiums so hoping EFL teams to get the same seaters is very unrealistic. The consumer base here is more willing to spend than in Europe and thats a fact. Everyone is complaining about ticket prices in soccer nowadays. These I highly doubt will spend much towards hospitality. This is the equivalent of college football fans in the US than NFL fans. Sure, a lot of college football stadiums are way bigger than NFL stadiums, but a lot of them don’t have great hospitality bc they know they’re a school and cant expand their fan base the way a pro sport team does. As the result, NFL stadiums make more money with less seats but better hospitality. I agree European clubs can reach a wider audience, but 1) in a crowded market and 2) with a weaker consumer base, most Premier League and EFL Championship clubs dont need NFL-size venues. Unlike NFL teams, most of these clubs are heavily in-debt already. MLS-size venues are by far the better options. Some of these venues already offered better wifi than Old Trafford or Emirates Stadium for example.
@@HungNguyen-qr7bt "Manchester City couldn’t even fill out their 48,000 seaters on a daily basis" This season Man City have averaged 52000 in attendance. Closer to 53000 if we only include league games (European games are the only real cases where City struggles to fill seats).
They fill their stadium. 60000+ is only a 20% increase, given that City ticket costs are high increasing attendance would be simple.
That's how the MLB has such high attendances, average ticket prices are lower.
Tottenham seem to be the best-run club in every area except on the pitch.
It will be interesting to see how extravagant the Saudis get at Newcastle when they finally decide to build a new stadium.
3:14, only about a quarter will be spent on structural engineering,so the rest is vanity and voodoo economics.I want to squeeze more money from our fans on match day to pay off a massive debt with the bank which I created with a vanity project and the vague possibility of a Taylor Swift concert.Madness.
Granted, sufficient infrastructure like electricity, water and amenities are needed for fan experience, though yeah most are pushing either to empty the wallet, or to instead the more well off fans or tourists.
@@CassiopeiaOnYT I have to own up to having invited for the first time ever to a box a couple of weeks back,prematch drinks,food etc and as soon as I win the lottery I'm getting my own and screw the plebs.
The fact that Manchester United with a rotting stadium makes that much money makes you wonder how much they can make with a better stadium. Glazernomics is just bad
By better stadium you mean renovating our Home what we need is to fix our roof and a slight expansion plan that was featured in a video that will keep within the current style of old Trafford yes this will mean our stadium will be closed for a few years but we've done it before back in ww2 when much of Old Trafford was decimated by the Luftwaffe we played at Maine Road for a few seasons can definitely do that again with the Etihad
Jews☕
1:32 How are PSG earning so much in match day revenue?
Because people want to watch mbappe, messi, Neymar, etc etc
Probably big 'match day clients' from Qatar
a high percentage of parc des princes are vip hospitality to make the most out of the vast amount of business associates and rich tourists in paris, the hospitality packages make more revenue than all other normal seating.
Why money takes so long to launder?
This means Stamford Bridge will be as is for a few more years
because theyre stadiums?
informative
Are they so expensive? It's what I imagine they would cost......as for the players, well that's an interesting one.....
relative to a decade ago? yes. it's like saying spurs stadium is cheap because in 10 years time it would cost 2billion... which is a possibility.
Brentford’s new stadium cost less than half of a stand 🤯
Chelsea's new stadium will probably cost £2bn
❓I wonder if stadiums would die soon like malls❓🙄
They cook food for a week before a match??
Ofcourse there is no money laundering going on in football economics. Its completely normal and everything is clean as your mothers milk.
So greed and factors having nothing to do with the game. If i want a 3 course meal ill go to a restaurant. Absolute garbage. Restaurant stadiums with the atmosphere of a playground easter party.
I dont understand how Enlgish football managed to import the worst part mainland european football, the round stadiums. What a shame that old square stadiums are being dumped for these ugly and soulless stadiums....
Would you believe Tifo just answered a Question that I've been asking myself for year's now
Love you Guys❤
Happy New Year 🎉