How Broke Is Too Broke
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2024
- How broke is too broke , I finally considered the project at hand an example of deciding when too broke is the final conclusion. I ran into two machining failures during this episode. The self-setting ACME nut on my band saw needs replacing a real good example of abstract machining project.
“Made in China” is a warning label….
Life is good! Cheers, Keith
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What surprised me was that you never once backed off that tap, as we all normally do to clear chips.
Two sets of people. Those who've broke a tap, and those who haven't used one.
Great to see you back.
Keith Fenner moment of "I should have known better". We've all done the silly broken tap trick...thanks for sharing
Have mercy, the was a good tap. 😂 this why we just can't have nice things. Anybody that hasn't ever broken one, ain't never used one very much. I enjoyed watching Keith, glad to see you working
Well now that just sucks... We have all been there my friend, Good luck on your surgery.
Now you have two bits that are too broke, then you'll be too broke after buying another tap. 😎
I was afraid of that when I saw that tap flex that much. Don't take that wrong, I've never tapped ACME threads, but looking at the thread profile, I figured it would cut pretty tough. Great to see you back! I hope your next surgery goes as well as the first. I'm looking at some medical issues myself. Aw they carefree joys of youth, and then the return payment ;-).
Part of the fun of growing up, we all pay the price! Some more than others.
Yep I thought the same although I was expecting the break between the two threaded areas. Bigger wrench more torque, was the drill size correct?
The drill size was as called for and I questioned that myself as I first set tap face to hole. Great note to always keep in mind!!!!
@@KeithFenner Unbelievable that the second one broke too perhaps a faulty batch. Ingenuity overcame the problem though and at least you have a starter tap and a “plug tap”! Good job in the end Keith
Interesting! About 6 month ago, I snapped an Acme tap (1/2”-10 RH) in a project at right about the same depth. I was warned that tapping Acme threads was a booger. I now see that even an Expert like you can have this happen. So sorry. Expensive, too.
Keith Sir.. I just want to thank you (again) for inspiring me many years ago to start making videos on *my* subject (nothing to do with machining folks - ignore me!). I had almost forgot about you but today dialed you up on YT and thank goodness, you are still going strong. Bless you brother and keep inspiring folks.
Fantastic!
You gotta love Keith's shop.... it's immaculate !
Thank you for showing that. I was just thinking as the video was getting closer and closer to the end, my brain snapped to.... "it's going to break" just before it did. We get the luxury of seeing the steel bend and flex but when you're doing it real time you don't always get to see it. Just like the part moving. In real time you can't see it move until the line starts to show. I had watched Abom do the same type of tapping job and just about did the same thing. The way he got through it was to back it out all the way, clean it out and peck at it until it when through adding lots of cutting oil. That after boring a bit more clearance. So glad you took us along for the experience. Very much appreciate your machining because we all get to learn together. Your experience is so valuable and the fact you will willing to humbly share it with is wonderful. So thank you again for showing the success and the failures. Although you don't make many mistakes from what I have seen and you have a LOT of videos. Can't wait to see how you turn this project into another success!
Ouch. We've all been there, done that! Hang in there.
Thanks for sharing.
Hi Keith!A very nice and informativ video! Good work! You are a real machinist! Keep up the good work! 👍👍👍👍
Ouch, Thank you Keith!
very good video Mr Fenner
I was watching that tap twist each time he turned amass was just waiting for it to brake
When you brought out the big wrench, my pucker factor went up. When I saw the big wrench turning, I clenched up waiting for the break. When it went to slow-motion, I knew it was coming. Such a sick feeling when that happens, especially with such an expensive tap. At least it should come out of there without too much trouble, and no damage to the part.
Thx for a good video. It’s been a while since I really enjoyed one of your videos. Even though I have binge watched all your videos over the last two tears. Good luck with the last hands surgery. Kind regards from South Africa. Deon.
44:37 I knew it, old guys like you dont quit. SNAP 🤣🤣🤣🤔😉
The slow motion cued me that this was on the way.
Another show filmed on a Monday!
Just can't win some on some days!
I enjoy you sharing the failures as well as the successes!
The favorite thing for taps to do!!
Hey at least you’ve got plenty of remnant there to try and get it out! I will definitely say that Anchorlube stuff is really great on cast iron👍🏽👍🏽
Keith, I might suggest just a stage II bionic arm surgery next time! Well, that is one way to extend the video. Thanks for all you do and share.
"i need a bigger wrench"
that was the red flag for me...
nice cliffhanger anyway 🙂
cheers ben.
Even after backing off and clear threads ….. the Man’s right, those who haven’t used one and . . . . you know. Thanks for sharing with us
WIDELL taps are made 5 mins from my house in New Port Richey, FL!!! small world! hahaha
Total bummer 😞 on the tap. Thanks for the video Keith great job till the end 😂😮. Take care of yourself and Girlfriend and be Blessed ❤️.
I was thinking I know I would never get away with that. Haha.
Tons of respect! Keith.
As soon as you brought out that big wrench I started thinking... this could be a bad day.
AND it wasn't even a left hand adjustable tap wrench either!
Had a similar problem with my Kalamazoo saw a few months ago. Thread in the original bronze nut was wiped out. Ordered a 360 brass acme nut from McMC. I milled 2- 1/4" keyways on oposite sides of the nut and soldered 1/4" tabs in the slots, protruding high enough to serve as the "stop-wings"
This past week I got an acme thread rod to the replace the lead screw in my mill and an import 7/8-6 tap from MSC to open up the x-axis nut on my mill (original lead screw was just lifting screw grade, not machine grade. I felt bad paying $100 for a tap I may never need again, but It worked perfectly, and the fit has pretty much no endplay.
I shook my head and said back it out right before the slo mo lol
Happy Friday eve Keith!
Morning from Oz.
That was rather spectacular! And that has just become a rather expensive part, $170 ( that's about $280 Au, ouch).
Seems that bore was a tad small.
Now to get it out, and get a new tap.
Don't think I would have been that calm.
Like always enjoyed the video!
But of course NOT the Breaking the tap!! Ouch!
I know I have many times and hate it !!
Thanks for sharing Kieth!
Happens to the best of us… I feel for you! I think you’ll have better luck with the next one.
I knew that tap was going to break, for every full turn of the tap or die, back off 1/4 turn to clear chips...is what my machine shop insturctor told us back in 74 and I've always done that and broke few taps /dies. That Acme tap is a two step and they are known to snap due to the long taper length.
Sorry about that tap. I've felt it. The good thing it broke outside
Well, I guess we know how broke is too broke for that tap!
At least there was enough left to be able to back it out.
When i saw the tap twisting like that , I've not been surprized of the end.
I'm anxious to see the end of that project
very good project
very good teacher
very good video
It wasn't the nut that was supposed to hold the vise, it was the nut trying to operate the machine. Thanks for the video Hope to see you at the Bar-Z this year. Jon
GY not need tapping oil but nodulair Gy loves some oil and a new tap always need some oil. clearing out the shavings will help also
Hi Keith, Happy Thursday!
OMG, we have the same saw at work and the same problem.
had both hands done years ago good move
Yes 10BA taps do that if you as much as look at them, better luck with the next one Keith
Very fun video, Keith. Sorry for your loss. Re-Title suggestion: "Fabrication of a Bar-Z Auction Item".
It wasn't the diameter of the bore as much as it was the runout caused by your Jacobs chuck/headstock. See the deflection of the drill bit @40:12 and @40:49.
If I may step in with 'Apprentice Notes', Keith: ALWAYS run a boring bar through your hole. Concentricity, linear precision, and surface finish are essential for deep-threaded taps. For added assurance, especially with $170 taps, a reamer might also be a good idea. In most cases, the carbon content of ductile is sufficient for lubrication, but cutting oils may be a good insurance policy with an untested, un-broken-in tap.
Breaking an expensive tap is a horrible feeling Keith 😔 not sure how you held back the torrent of expletives. Still, making that nut is a lot cheaper than buying a whole new saw and your build videos are the best!
The irony of it being a “quality American made tap”
G'day Keith, I am a machinist of a similar vintage, whilst training as an apprentice with older tradesmen if I patched things up to use like your vice these older guys tell me I going to the "patch"..😅. Keith, what did you say off camera when the tap broke😢 In Australia, where I live today is Australia Day, a day of celebration ,tomorrow I am machining a lathe crossfeed nut. Keep the content coming, Keith.
I was thinking you wear putting a lot of torque on the tap. I could see it flexing. I was thinking when are you going to back it up to clear the chips . The instant you slowed the video I knew what was about to transpire . Your drill bit might be cutting a little undersized from repeated use . The last time I cut an acme thread I was still attending college. I have a lot of tapes that I have re-ground to finish a job.
I like when you say "sharpum".
Ouch. When I saw the big wrench come out, I had a bad feeling. Maybe we'll see you single point it with a boring bar next.
Thanks for the explanation throughout the video. Sorry the tap broke. Take care of those hands. Are you doing to much to soon?
Keith, I noticed you don’t use any cutting lubricants, also I’ve always been tough to back of to clear chips 170 bucks down the tube
Next video showing "How to remove a broken tap".
Hopefully the taper will permit the fragment to be backed out however before EDM in our shop most of mine fractured in blind holes below the surface in unhardened tool steel.
After the fragment is removed could you rough the clearance diameter thru? Use the tap's shank as a boreing bar in your tracer lathe? Somewhere on the shank's diameter add 4 indexing flats, 4 flutes permits a first cutting tooth to become 4 single pointed cutter ground boreing bar. You only need a portion of the thread depth (taps diameter), the tracing attachment template would safely back out at the end of the cut.
Would be interesting to see how you timed the lead of the work piece partial thread with the boreing bar's
first single point tooth!
Would love to have seen you single point that ACME thread inside ..... but great video thanks for posting
Yep, I know about carpal tunnel. Take it easy so you heal up right. Sorry your new expensive tool broke but I'll bet it ain't the first one you have broken. All the best to ya'.
Missed it by that much! Younger folks wont 'get' that.
Would you believe... even a few of the older folks aren't that "smart" either?
Hi Keith😩, well the warning voice in the back of your head just wasn't shouting loud enough on this one. In my 75 yrs I've ignored that voice quite a few times , and it's always cost me one way or another,lol. I hope when it let go you didn't jar your wrist too much, let's hope round two goes ok for ya, cheers mate, best wishe's to you and Lisa, .Stuart UK.
Hi Keith. I wonder why they didn’t use a half-nut design like a lathe cross-feed (like when turning threads when the correct number comes around on the little dial)? I wonder how they even machined a hole with threads on only one side anyway?
Phosphor Bronze would have been more suitable and easier to tap maybe.
Probably costs as much as the tap.
I tapped 14mm x 4 mm trapezoidal Lh in aluminium bronze with plenty of lubicant and the Chinese tap was close to breaking.
I've been watching your video for quite a while. A man with your skill and experience must have know that tap was going to break. When you fetched the big adjustable wrench ( how big was that, at least a 15" made a 24") I KNEW that tap was going to break. Surely you did it on purpose? Just to give a lesson in the next video on how to remove a tap that was really jammed in the hole?
Somehow I new that tap was going to snap. Good to know even a pro machinist can break a tap.
Hello from TEXAS!
Olá amigo Keith!!!
O que mnais me deixa nervoso quando quebra uma ferramenta dentro da peça não só pela ferramenta e também por perder a peça!!!
Abraço e boa sorte sempre, até a próximi vídeo!!!
Had the same problem with my Kalamazoo bought a new nut from Kalamazoo for a round $75. 15 years ago. Wonder what they get now?
Oh, man! That was tough to watch.
It's only too broke if you can't fix it! Good luck with the Carpal Tunnel surgery! My left hand has some Carbon Fiber suture holding a middle finger extensor tendon together. Courtesy of a piece of sharp heavy steel that got me right on top of the knuckle! It's lasted over 40 years and the Orthopedic Surgeon I saw recently (for another issue) said it was amazing that it lasted this long! 😁
And you might try using a Tennis ball to help with building up the strength in your hands! I just walked around squeezing it all day for months (had to explain why a few times). By the time I was done I had worn all the "fuzz" off of it and it was a new one to begin with! Took me a year to get the hand 99% back...
Nothing like a broken tap to signal when it’s time to call it a day. Been there….
I am CERTAIN that some tools come from the factory with a hidden fracture which has been expertly glued together by the special gremlins in the fracture repair department. We will discover the repair at some point during the life of the tool. We generally hope not to discover it on the first day .......lol
I'm not sure where to get the special tool glue but it's probably more expensive than the replacement tool and you need a master gremlin to apply it anyway.
Anybody who's worked for a living sympathizes with your pain, Kieth!
Need cutting oil .turn tap a little forward then reverse tap clean out chips ??
Probably nothing wrong with the quality of the tap. On a hole that deep you need to back it out and clear the flutes or they fill and jamb and then , well, you know the rest........ha ha, ask me how I know!
I knew when you "bragged" about that Tap, that that may happen.... S o r r y....!!! This is a good one, looking forward to the next segment.... Thanks for sharing!!!!
In the words of the great Jim Morrison: "I've never been so broke, that I couldn't leave town"
Always learning from Mr. Fenner. Oil needed?
No.
Were you cutting with that tap dry?
CUTTING OIL !!!
No, cast does not "need" oil to machine. But your tooling needs oil to reduce friction against the material. Don't you remember when you tried broaching that big keyway in cast and the bar got hung up and gaulded the bar and the broach plug?
Oil
Oil
Oil
watching that tap at the beginning, A feller was saying "That thing is going to break". Sorry to say I was right. :( Sorry Keith...do you think they will warranty that tap?
Oh no! As soon as it went to slow-mo, I knew it broke…. Bummer.
We've all been there.
how much damage did your "bigger Crescent wrench" do to your ways?
Sorry to see you break an expensive tap. Perhaps Anchorlube might help.
You can power tap with those acme taps. Just don't reverse the tap. Stop the spindle and free the tap from your tailstock.
Very important, LUBE!! I don't care if it is cast or not. Always use cutting oil!
If you feel you have to hand tap on a lathe, and if for some reason you don't have have a tap follower, be careful using the tailstock to apply pressure with the center. If you put too much pressure, your 3/4 tap will make a nice pretty 3/4 hole with no threads. The excessive pressure will cause the tap to cut the threads completely out. As far as using a crescent wrench, dude I don't know what to tell you. You have a machine shop, you have a tap handle laying around somewhere, go find it.
that tap is now too broke.....sorry I couldn't resist
Keith what is the date on your parker vise, I have a 49x the date on mine is hard to read I know its old not sure of the date thanks
Number 105 not sure where the date would be, the vice age guess, known the father of my friend who also past, puts it back in the mid 1900"s sometime.
Bugger. Bit like the Toyota add we have here in Australia
Is there any other spanner sold in the US...answer Nope lol
too broke to pay attention ? hope you are doing great Keith cheers ftom Central Florida, Paul
Good luck Monday.
Damn...when i read it would break..i had to stop..and finally came back... i broke taps too..anyone using them has....anyone saying they haven't..is lying..or never uses them much....I was cringing 😧😖😱as you could see the Flex in the Tap.... I'm glad you muted the 🤬... I had headphones on....
🇨🇦🤓✌️
Human like me? I can't go on Keith......
Whoa sorry to see that.
You’re the second person I’ve heard use the term “Chinesium”. I think it fits.
Oops…
Now that is TOO broke!
Been there , bought the T shirt and the Hat , Should always tap wet it helps .
Ya 'twas a moment of should a known better . I watched the tap twist 3 pulls before it broke. Some days are better than others ... this one was not.
Didn't see that coming.... 😕
Why didn't you clear the tap?
Acme taps are best to run straight through. Backing out an acme tap is one of those things your grandpa tells you to never do, so you don't. The lack of lubricant is the biggest contributor to this tap breaking.
Well that sucked! Sorry about that brother
I could see that happening right from the start