I swear. Most kpop companies think that its just the group releasing English songs and that is it. Which is very not true. You need to act like an American artist when it comes to releasing English songs 1. What the market is looking at. 2. Interesting song and video 3. The collaborations on that album. 4. The fashion collaborations as well as attending the invite parties and shows. 5. Go to those late night shows. 6. Accept that you are going to promote that album for 2 months STRAIGHT without rest. 7. Perform where the general public is always tuned in. Lastly, who are they outside the group?
your point is extremely valid but it affect blackpink aswell, TWICEs English tracks have done amazing, however blackpink do many more English tracks, and it helps when half your members speak English as a 2nd language, the difference is the smaller amount of members, and the formula they redo, not creating any hype, yet fans still eat it up, so they essentially have something that people know is coming, which from a musical standpoint, sucks for a general audience because when you’re releasing music every 2 years, it gets EXTREMELY boring, but for Blinks, they love it for some reason, it does them justice from a marketing standpoint. so yes, blackpink are WAYYYY more popular and successful, but it’s more to do with the formulaic music coming from them. I believe JYP saw that from 2015-2019, TWICE were leagues ahead of blackpink in Korea and Asia as a whole, so he focused his attention there. That meant that by the time TWICE tried to appeal to a western audience (2020-2024), blackpink had already infiltrated with D4. Collabs don’t necessarily equal success on both ends, sure blackpink has some collaborations but icecream is known as their worst song, 2 of them are legally owned by the other artist and 1 is a bside with no promotion. TWICE’s collabs are Korean artists like HEIZE, or Wonstein, so they know there audience, similar to how blackpink only work with non-asian artists.
@@RoyaleMusical 1. I don't want to sound sexist, but BTS made English tracks and we're still not speaking English properly. Look at JK GOLDEN. 2. When releasing English albums and tracks and if you want to achieve a huge level of success, you have to get co-signs from huge artists from that country. Key examples: BTS collaborated with Steve Aoki, Lauv, Charlie Puth and their biggest that really put them on the map to stay was definitely Coldplay. That band is basically a gate keeper when it comes to bands. That co-sign from Coldplay let the American community know that BTS was worth listening to and that they can support them. And during the butter and dynamite promotions , they shoved the songs in our faces. They made themselves be EVERYWHERE, from radio, to TV, to YT. And people just ended up listening to the songs and became fans. They promoted for an entire year during q*arantine, just for those three songs. Blackpink they collaborated with Dua Lipa, Lady Gaga and their biggest staple was Selena Gomez. Selena is a very lucrative co-sign, because even though she has average talent, her clean image and her HUGE fanbase and her fans eat everything up. And what does Twice have interms of English collaborations? Nothing. It's not about the music you make, most times it's all about the connections through the collaborations. If Twice really want people to give them credit for being a popular GG in America, they should just offer Taylor Swift 5 million for a collaboration and watch how the media and the fans will EAT up everything. The problem is that JYP is too stuck promoting Twice as a boy groups instead of leveraging ggs. And what is the biggest advantage that GGs have over BGs? The GP attention! And to fumble such a bag is complete idiocy. 🙄 See how JYP still doesn't understand how to promote Nmixx even when they are TOO talented for their own good. Look at ITZY, and I can't even believe that I would ever say this, but ATEEZ has already surpassed them in popularity, and that is not easy. Considering that they are a lucrative 5 member group. By the time JYP realizes how to actively promote GGs, we won't see any of the get the success they want. And it's not even about having the IT factor, it's about making the girls an IT group and JYP failed. Forgive me for rambling 🤭🤭, all I wanted to say is that, it's not always about the song, it's about the surrounding too, and most people seem to forget that. 🤭 It's all MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING. 🤷🏾♀️
@@donttalk372 yeah and again, you’re point is amazing, but the reasons for the BTS take-over was because if HYBE using payola to get it on the radio CONSTANTLY, which worked for them ig. i think JYP just can’t figure out when to put time into the girls and when to lay off for a bit
@@RoyaleMusical you do realize that the entire big 4 uses payola. 😭😭😭😭😭 Let's not lie here. They all use payola. Still twice is not popular, they messed up during western promotions. Hate the game not the player. I don't see y'all hating on Doja Cat when she uses payola and now has a sizable fanbase. Secondly, did you even read my statement? It takes more than just payola! Pay attention 🤣🤭. Twice has a sh*tty western management team. If your management is sh*tty, you flop end of story. 😀
@@donttalk372 twice aren’t flops though, they just don’t know how to manage their payola, hybe and yg are constantly using payola, but clearly JYP is using it wisely, thinking of where to put more care and money
It has nothing to do with it, BTS doesn't have one member with a conventional western name and they are seven members. Twice is simply not relatable and that's very important in the west. Besides, there are many famous groups and the general people only know the group's name, not the members, example: Pussycat Dolls. 🤷
I think the english fluency helps a lot. That's one of the reasons why Jisoo lagged behind in popularity in the west. If Twice spent the past 8 years gaining some fluency in english, it would have helped them a lot to show their personalities
That's a relevant point - but on the other hand: 6 members of BTS aren't fluent in English either, especially not Jungkook. But he's good at pronouncing English. So if the general public hears him on the radio, they can barely tell that he's not an English speaker.
not really he point. jisoo has gotten a lot more popular now, and if you look at bts, the members with the poirest english skills are the most popular - jimin, taehyung and jungkook
100% agree, when half your members were raised speaking English, with another one knowing fluent English, and the final member learning it, it’s wayyy easier to manage than 9 girls trying to learn English from scratch. The English is a HUGE factor that helps blackpink.
@@RoyaleMusical namjoon is the only fluent bts member in English yet he's the least popular and bts are the most popular and biggest group in the world so your point falls flat.
great video, it is funny how this messaging can apply to so many 4th gg fandoms who think BP are irrelevant at this point in time, just bc of their favs charting success. Charts success does not equal impact
Also they're charting because blackpink hiatus between comeback increased like their last comeback was in 2022. If blackpink were releasing the songs, I think it would have been quite difficult for them to chart (4th and 5th gen group still be on charts but competition will increase)
@@PrachiSingh-ml9rplies again. When Blackpink came back in 2022, 4th gen groups like IVE and new jeans were charting above them. Their presence had no impact on charting.
@@melliexcx blackpink got pak with pink venom and got #1 on flo, genie and bugs chart and #2 on melon charts They were longest charting gg on spotify that year too. So what's your point???
@@melliexcx dont even start those groups are NOT coming anywhere near what blackpink did theyve achieved way too much for newgen groups to even be compared to them
Don't forget LVMH was a major shareholder of YG entertainment for some time after seeing the influence of G-Dragon on fashion. In the end, they withdraw, making a loss, but not before most of Blackpink represented their brands, making them millions.
I also think her fans don't realize that Nayeon isn't that popular in the west out of all the Twice members. I think her solo achievements and her being the center makes people think she's bigger than what she is. As a Once myself, I always say as delusional as Blinks are, people have to accept the fact that BP are on a level that is hard to reach. I honestly don't see any other girl groups rivaling BP in the fashion world aside from Wonyoung or Aespa. And even that's a stretch because Aespa would have to reach BP's level of relevance to scratch the surface, which is tricky because they're still new and almost every kpop/korean celebrity is being added to the roster for western brands, which results in brands just grabbing whatever idol/celebrity they can.
Wow you ate. Coz the pinks uses to be called Instagram influencers but now everybody wants their faves to be global ambassadors they try to down play blackpink's success.
Blackpink was and still is called "Instagram models/influencers" because they are modeling more than doing music. Fashion and modeling has ALWAYS been a part of the kpop industry. Blackpink didn't create that, neither is there anything wrong with working with different brands. It's really up to the individual group and label to decide how much they prioritize it. It's Blinks who's acting like kpop idols getting branddeals are specific or specially created to Blackpink when it reality it's YG who created their entire image around them and not the other way around.
I don’t agree blackpink did become more influencers than idols in the last few years, sometimes being extremely popular isn’t always based on achievements or you being good especially in the age of mediocrity
The Big 3 has been battling it out in the Western market since 2nd gen and there's a reason why YGE dominated from Se7en to PSY to 2ne1 to now with Blackpink. Not only is their music adjacent to Western audience ( hence the cosign from Western artists which is actually important in order to gain notoriety in industry ), YGE has also already perfected the marketing strategy throughout the years. And Blackpink is pinnacle of that perfected marketing strategy.
There's an argument that could be made that K-pop should prioritize its domestic market, aka South Korea, but because that demographic is so small, there's only so much power they can have, hence why they expanded into the Western market. But I think the better argument against YG's marketing strategy is the fact that their artists don't release music. Like explain to me how Blackpink has only released 32 songs as a group over the course of 7+ years, if we don't include remixes or solo projects? It doesn't matter which market we're discussing--if you can't hold their attention, it's harder to make your groups profitable. I will die on the hill that "Pink Venom" was only as successful as it was because of the two year hiatus that came before.
@@ShootingStarStudio Back in the day ( 2nd gen ) companies and groups tends to focus on specific market that fits them. Like rather on conquering all or trying which is the Kpop climate now. CL herself said that they knew SNSD is unstoppable. And though not spoken it is widely known that Japan market was dominated by Kara and with China it's T-ara. Hence 2ne1 focused on where they had offer and opportunities. Which is the Western. And until now YGE still apply the same principle. Hence if you noticed, Winner have more project in Korea, iKON in Japan ( back when they are still under YGE ) and Blackpink in the West. Not just they gained the most profit that region, they are also marketable there as well. With regards to releasing music, YGE timeline has always been like that. With the exception of Treasure and now Baemon of course. It seems scare in comparison to majority of Kpop groups, but if you think about that's style is kind of something similar to that of Western artists. I mean there it's pretty normal to release a full album like one every 5 years.
@@RoyaleMusical When I said that 2ne1 succeeded the most in the US market amongst their counterparts, I based on how their placement on Billboard Hot 100, number of songs that are actually released and played in the US, number of songs that's used in media like commercials, co-signs by American artists and award. 2ne1 hold some records that are only beaten or tied to a few years ago by BTS. But that is not to say 2ne1 is more successful than SNSD and WG in an overall aspect. What I just for a specific market which is the US.
It reminds me of big bang. Among the 2nd gen and early 3nd gen groups there were the most popular group in the west. I am just wondering why they didn’t try to go into the western market more? They literally had Korea and Japan in their palm, I would argue that they still have a big impact
Twice is one of the only groups I actively follow but I love the points you made here. There’s no need for ONCEs to be delusional and as much as I dislike most of Blackpink’s music, they definitely have a bigger impact and that’s just a fact. 💜
I am so fucking tired of different fandoms trying to argue about who's more popular. This isn't just about twice vs blackink, its also about skz vs txt, its about ive vs le serafim vs newjeans, its about bts vs blackpink, etc etc etc and the arguments are just the same old fucking shit. Your favourite group doesn't have to be the most popular and a lot of stans need to accept that.
So very much true. I love the 3rd Gen holy trinity of girl groups because I love a variety of music, but I refuse to interact with fellow fans of the group for these kinds of reasons. Sometimes not everything is a competition because there's already a clear winner so why bother?
Twice is amazing but there is several reasons i think blackpink is more popular in the west 1 the west likes the bad bitch concept and style more twices cute concept would be appealing to tweens but older audiences are less receptive 2 most girl groups in the west like fifth harmony have five members i think twice having nine members works against them outside the kpop demographic 3 yg marketing for blackpink worked well as far as working in the west 4 blackpink has had exposer outside the kpop watcher's in the west causing people to look them up and give them individual attention I love twice they are definitely deserving of the praise and love they get but i hate to say this so much my soul hurts but blinks are right
Twice's concept is a lot more than just cute. They also do mature concepts. It doesn't matter which group is more popular or recognized. They are both very successful and loved by many. Popularity is not that important. Joy, happiness, inner peace, health, deep profound love and being of service in a way that makes us happy and fulfilled and the world a better place is.
@brianlittrell797 oh I wasn't trying to say who was better or anything like that I was just giving what I see according to the topic on the video both girl groups are amazing
@@Atinywithsocailanxiety I know you weren't trying to say that. I was addressing one of the points you made in your comment and adding my thoughts on what the video is essentially about - which is popularity.
Agreed 100% I like Twice but, here in the West they arent as hard hitting as Blackpink. The musical taste is more hardhitting and in your face. Twice's early image has been girly, sugar plum fairies, very Shirley Temple cute. There was a time where America liked that, but we are beyond cuteness now.
As a fan of both i dont view them as those stans . Twice is traditional kpop , BP is more western modern with a kpop base . Theyre ying and yang to me .
I don’t know about the crazy twitter fans, but if I were a twice member right now, I’d just go with the flow and enjoy the benefits of a large loyal fan base. The general public’s attention while beneficial is also fickle and can easily disappear. The girls can make solo music if they want, or just enjoy the down time they get until they’re put on another tour. I’d also recommend them putting their earnings into some investment so they can live comfortably when their idol days are behind them.
As much as I love twice, onces really need to stop with all the bs. They are always up bp memebers throats and for what? Saying that bp is way ahead of twice isn't hate,it's a reality. I love both groups and support them, but lets not lie and say that they are on the same level of success and popularity.
LMFAO theres no way ur saying onces are up bp members throats. there would be no issue with bp and twice if blinks weren't running their mouth on every twice members posts comments spamming things about bp, why are we getting all delusional now.. how many onces do you see blabbering about twice on a bp members comments unless someone brought them up
It is definitely cool to see that what blackpink where taunted on back in the days is now something so many fans want for their faves too. I’m interested to see the blackpink girlies moves now that they are out of the yg shackles. Jennie seems to be focusing on Korea with her zico collab and tv show appearance. I am especially curious about rose’s future. Has there been any news or rumours on what she’s going to do?
The only thing we know about Rosé at the moment is that she is working on solo music Whether or not she will establish a company or if she’s planning to drop a mini, single or full album remains unknown
Nayeon may be not as popular as Lisa Internationally, but she has a dedicated fan base that adores her for her talent, charm, and personality. This video was entertaining. I always adore your videos and editing.
I believe that JYP, didn't expect Twice to be a star popular as they are in Asia which is why they didn't aim fir the west. Or it could be they were just going for Asia and not the west but wanted money from the west. I also believe they didn't know that Kpop was going to boom they way it did in the west, but your points are very valid, The Feels and their other English tracks do not sound like western demographic songs. I feel the girls could do a more mature concept and they also need to actually work on marketing them as members and not as Twice. (Likw you said)
It's probably down to JYPe's management style being trash. The totally tanked GOT7's projection when at the time GOT7 & BTS were neck and neck and it was CLEAR GOT7 should have been pushed more in the West and had the sound and popularity to do it, but JYPe managers Flopped.
@@silververnallbells191fr Jackson wang was huge in the west they could have marketed him as global it boy plus the Chinese market who's VERY profitable also bambam is Thailand's prince they could have made him like a Male Lias also yugyeom + mark have also a lot of potential they have a lot of English speakers and good group dynamics they just needed the music and the marketing but as usual JYP really doesn't know how to market their groups especially in the west
I think during that time Jyp maybe prioritize that over promoting th individually cause of what happen with miss a, they promoted Suzy a whole lot, and disbalanced the promotion as a group.
@@silververnallbells191 Everytime someone mentions GOT7 management at JYPE I get flashbacks on how they dropped the bag. GOT7 has so much potential and I hope one day they get their viral moment again as a group.
You hit the nail on the head, twice deserves more than what JYP is giving them, and also is that Spotlight by the Royal Three from Rainbow High??? I just finished watching that!
Even though i am a Once, i agree with every single thing said in this video. twice's popularity in the western industry is all because of jyp entertainment not knowing how to properly handle them. Both groups have their strengths and weaknesses and yes, onces were naive to even compare blackpink and twice's impact in the western industry. Twice has always been a group that was made for music, but not music music, i mean kpop, korean, or asian music. And i think that not all but some onces need to learn that it doesnt really matter how successful twice is in terms of music achievements, records, or awards if they're talking about influence and fashion related anything. It just obviously doesnt match up.
I actually thought minas stage preseb3c has gotten better in stages and yes tweeking is not sp but the whole 7 rings performence her facial expression amd energy was insane so i do belive she has improved
I have really enjoyed your videos for more than a year now and I didn’t want to be a ghost viewer anymore. Your content is amazing and very well thought out. You’re literally one of the three RUclipsrs I look to for K-Pop content because you aren’t afraid to be true to yourself. I hope you know how much I respect you and your views on things. You really make me think about stuff in more depth, so thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us ❤
tbh Twice is my favorite group don't get me wrong I really love them but BP has more individual personality and greater impact and the fact that this is not because Twice are incompetent or because they are boring but because Jyp doesn't know how to manage them
YGE promoted BP better than JYPE promoted TWICE, end of the video. Honestly, I'm kinda happy JYPE didn't promoted them the way yge did with bp. More popularity -> more fans -> more toxic fans and I don't want it in my fandom. I don't want the situation where Nayeon does something and the whole fandom calling her a wh*re like blinks did with Lisa after the crazy horse event. I prefer TWICE to be more recognizable in East Asia because the girls are from that region. For the solos - I think Chae could be a soloist too if she put some work in dancing. Momo would probably wont go solo because of all the hate she got for her vocals from other fandoms (most blinks and army I think).
@@manogaming6534 Honestly I doubt that, they probably just used Mamamoo and SME as a shield, so that other fandoms wouldn’t be able to do the same and call out Bp and Bts weak vocalists.
@@manogaming6534 I was there when Momo got dragged by that encore and let me tell you, most of the comments that I found are legit come from Blink and I mean, Blink only with some Army or Bangpink stans join the slandering for fun. Moomoo (Mamamoo fandom) usually has a beef with Blink more and SM stans usually mention Momo only when Once come to drag them first or when they want to talk about vocal topics.
I love both groups, but one big lesson of Blackpink vs. Twice is that a group with many members is capping its success in the West. YG will find this out with Babymonster. But that’s just the start, and you nailed the other reasons. Great job.
I also wonder if YG is ready for challenge to market BM for wester market with more members. I think they know it because Treasure which debuted with 12 members were meant for Korea and Japan and they gained pretty good fan base in Japan. But they yet to try to break in to western market, this makes me think that they know they can't market them because of number of members and doesn't try at all. So they might have considered it already and I think even early on their career they are giving unique and individual roles to Babymonster. So it will be easier later on.
Great video! As someone who watched in real time JYPE's attempts to market Wonder Girls in the West, it seems clear to me that the company did not want to make the same mistake twice. If I remember correctly, the members of Wonder Girls bluntly stated in interviews that their struggles to make it in the West left their Korean fanbase feeling neglected, and that their absence in their home country greatly diminished their overall popularity with the Korean general public. I truly think JYPE did not want to even consider the Western market until it was impossible not to- Twice brought back the success WG had and multiplied it tenfold, and JYPE was content with that for years. But as BTS and Blackpink became THE examples of kpop success in the West, it put pressure on other companies to try to follow suit. And when JYPE did attempt to foster and grow Twice's impact in the West, specifically the US, a few comebacks ago, the Korean fanbase complained to the company and directly to the members, and organized boycotts of Twice events when the girls returned to Korea. I'm not gonna sit here and say JYPE is doing the most with marketing the girls (I agree 100% with your analysis on the lack of fostering individuality), but the quick response of negativity from Korean fans definitely isn't helping, it's like the events that led to WG's decline happening all over again. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with Twice just being a huge success in Asia. I started listening to kpop many years ago because it brought something the Western market was lacking, and I am not the biggest fan of kpop groups having to change or appeal to the Western non-kpop-fan audience. But I also know it is the nature of companies to want to expand, dominate and, most importantly, make that sweet dough. Last thought - I don't understand the obsession with whether any and every twice member (or any kpop group's members, for that matter) will be a "sucessful" soloist. I think a member should try if they want. It stifles creativity when people think artists should only attempt to make music if they're gonna be the hottest and most successful artist at the time.
I think another reason as to why so many fandoms are so brave when it comes to arguing with BLINKs about which group is more popular/successful is that many BLINKs literally do not know how to argue or “which cards to pull” to actually win the said argument They often bring up points that can be easily argued with instead of showing direct comparisons of stats in a specific area that are impossible to argue with They only bring the numbers alone instead of showing them in a bigger picture that would immediately shut the whole argument down
Maybe Blinks know that if they use numbers only, as long as it's not Instagram or RUclips, Armys might come for them in some kind of "I told you so" way. For example, at the moment the monthly listeners on Spotify are 11 million for Twice and 17 million for Blackpink, but 28 million for BTS. Jennie has 33 million though (Jungkook 26, Lisa 7, V 8, Jimin & j-hope 6 and everyone else under 5). It's more complicated to find stats on album and ticket sales but if Blinks wanna compare BP with all Korean groups in those categories, they're gonna be no. 2 most of the time and that's not fun for people with a very competitive mindset.
Blinks know which cards to pull but as soon as they do, the members are slut shamed instead that's why that point of lisa dating the heir of LVMH comes in. And the constant down playing of the pinks success
BTS didn't bow down, they were already famous in the west, they did NOT need for 3 English songs to make them breakthrough. They were the ones invited to all those western award shows before any of the other group or their 3 English songs which Kpop fans will speak about until the day they day trying to prove something. And the members individually decided what kind of image they wanted to have and musically and promotionally wise, they acted accordingly. But, if we take J hope as an example, all he needed was a lollapalooza performance with a full Korean album and mixtape to pique the locals' interest because his music is just simply good. BTS didn't need to appeal to the western market, they were already in the western market with full Korean songs and I am not even sure BH was that smart in promoting them at the time, they did it cause they are genuinely good musicians and performers.
I like TT, Likey, Fancy, Cheer Up, and The Feels. And Donut. But, the other songs, I don't hate it. I just think that their new music has a good genre and is attractive even if it sounds good. It's gotten uninteresting. They should have had more marketing for each individual member to do many projects.
Hell the lack of Individuality in Twice is also what is widening the gap between them and stray kids in a way. Also The only song in my opinion that made waves in general western public was 'the feels"
Onces as a whole used to be a lot of fun. But the Blackpink Delulu has set in for them, where they have to crap on Blackpink to validate Twice. That is the essence of Blackpink Delulu, where you are threatened by Blackpink's popularity so much that you have to trash talk them.
I like twice's music much more than bp's and overall I vibe with them more, but I can't argue with your points about twice's popularity in western market, especially with the "strong Fandom support" one. The only thing I have to say is that it extends to a point with bts and BP too. I dont live in US (eastern Europe here) but I think A LOT of those records also are due to fandoms, not really general public. The only cases there I would believe in gp is viral tt songs or just good songs that chart well (these two are somewhat interchangeable tho)
First, I wanna say I love your channel. I’ve been a fan for a very long time and I enjoy both groups and their music. I do think you have valid points, but I do want to say that both groups are successful in their own rights and this is giving very 2ne1 vs girl generation from back in the day. I just think that this video may show a bit bias instead of focusing on the point that this rivalry is created by the fan and we should be able to exist in the world where were able to support both groups. But I think add some parts of the video of the tonality, in some parts was giving putting down one group to highlight another, which I think there’s a way to compare and analyze and contrast without doing that.. again I love your channel, and I just would rather focus on that. These groups are individually successful in their own way, and there’s no need to compare, and the fans don’t need to create competition amongst these girls. Both groups have carved their own place in history, and I would rather focus on uplifting that instead of feeding into this imaginary competition at the fans of cooked. And again, I’ve been a fan of your channel for a very long time, and you’ve always given great food for thought, and I look forward for more of your content in the future
@@everglowup Catch my laugh. I smiled throughout. Took me back to my all-girl Catholic school days. Proper viciousness over things that were forgotten by home time.
@@everglowup youre wrong about the talking points for big 3 ggs being outside of music. It was album sales, awards, performances? You’re just going off your memory of that time and not providing proof that correlates to your claims, so it’s not analytical. It’s not that hard to just give opinions, without presenting it as facts. It’s painful to see you cower from criticism and also your lack self awareness about your end comments apply to how you approach most of your commentary.
@@everglowup look at fifty fifty now, how new jeans ceo is having beef with hybe, and how the bp members have separate companies. They all have great achievements in the west but I wouldn’t consider their strategies to be good for the groups. The western pop group scene is dead, because the groups went down in flames despite their impact. Twices popularity relying on kpop fans doesn’t necessarily mean it’s illegitimate popularity when it provides more stability. Also, aren’t you in an eastern country and against western standards so why are you posing as an expert?
girlie we need more shorts/ur takes on stuff i feel like the hate from that one short impacted on you so much, even tho i don't agree on certain takes you make i still want to hear some of your opinions since many thing have been happening lately don't be afraid to speak ur mind🤍
To add to the that BP focus on individuality and being fluent in English, 75% of the members (3/4) were raised/ lived outside of Korea. Thailand, Australia and New Zealand have way more relaxed views compared to Korea. Like watching their first Weekly Idol appearance you could tell they were really trying to act cute and awkward compared to Jisoo. Twice has always followed Korean girl group similar to SNSD, although I feel the girls in SNSD definitely developed into their own different personalities (also had Korean American members, 4 members technically born in California and decent range of English speaking abilities among the members). Twice is the more conservative version of them and it's kind of refreshing that the Korean public is starting expect more from K-pop music/groups.
I like Twice and Blackpink the same. I love that Twice has this happy kind of music, which makes me wanna smile again, cheer up and have fun, while Blackpink can make me not care, or at least make me feel like I don’t care about other people’s opinions, which is why I love both, both are great groups, Blackpink’s success is bigger, no doubt in that, but both have great idols, who worked hard for their success
sorry but i feel like u really did downplay twices popularity i like them as much as blackpink maybe a little more or less depending on the day they sold out stadiums in europe and usa u dont understand how crazy of a feat they filled sofi and many with 10s of thousands of pepl i belive that bp is more popular no doubt but twice filling bigger stadiums winning billboard awards. My point is bp is more popular no argument but id say twice is way more popular then any group except for twice and bts (except maybe stray kids ) filling out stadiums is no joke amd u cant downplay almost 100000 people
I had zero interest in kpop until I discovered Blackpink. They're now my ult group and also a casual listener to other kpop gg's, including Twice. If it hasn't been for BP, I would have never been pulled into kpop.
This is unrelated but it makes sense to mention it under this video. Guess which group is rising to be palatable to western audience? Kiss of life. Less members, fluent English speakers, individuality right from the debut, ethnicity outside of Korea. S2 is cooking for next big thing. I am not really sure about their marketing maybe they lack funds for now since company is not even mid sized company. But they are giving them good songs for now and finally they got mushow win, which is their first win as a group.
I think overall, the cutesy kind of vibe just doesn't really last in the west. Like, every single Disney darling transitioned drastically from their cutesy image to edgy and sexually provocative. Blackpink had the badass vibe since day one so their image suits well in the west. But of course, it doesn't end there. Many kpop girl groups followed their pattern but didn't stick. It's still a matter of taste among the masses. on the other hand, 9:15 I don't remember BTS swore they'll never make English songs?? RM even said on a radio interview that they were open to it. They're cool with releasing English songs, they just don't see themselves making an English album as a group.
If I can play devil's advocate here for a moment, why does Twice need to be popular in the Western market? Why can't they focus on Asia as they always have? Why do they need to change? Their English fluency is low but their Japanese fluency is high. They're very popular in Taiwan and all of SEA. There’s mainland China fans too. That’s billions of fans to appeal to outside of the West. From a business perspective, it's smart not to compete with your rivals in the same market niche. Rather, why not collaborate with Blackpink to share popularity in both markets? Each group can promote the other. Twice's popularly is with men, Blackpink's is with women. Why not show each gender their power to strengthen their popularity over all? Show a tough sider to Twice and softer side to Blackpink. I think they can learn a lot from each other.
This is such a great video. Twice and BP are friends but their some of their fans are having arguments. Sighs. Can you also do a topic about the debate Korea's nation girl group? And about the Live vocals issue? Waiting for the next episode of Blackpink Olympics. Edit I heard from Onces that the group is called Twice because Two Visuals Tzuyu and Sana, Two Vocalists Jihyo and Jeongyeon (sorry if wrong spelling), Two Dancers Momo and Mina, Two Rappers Dahyun and Chaeyoung and Leader and Center Nayeon?
Genuine question. I'm not really well versed with 3rd gen Kpop history, but is any of them actually awarded or even dubbed as Nation's Girl group? I mean cause I know SNSD was called that because one government official gave them the title Nation's Girlgroup in of the event they performed in.
@@user-ye5og4wj1s Well there is a debate who among the holy trinity of third gen was among Blackpink, Twice and Red Velvet. And on 4th gen the debate is between IVE, Le Sserafim and New Jeans.
@@Multifandomgirl1499I hear the news few days ago that Korean government has officially said snsd and blackpink are nation's girl group Idk how true is that
@@Multifandomgirl1499 yes at least for 2nd the tiles are usually given by someone of a position. Like that case of SNSD or how industry experts back in the day dubbed 2ne1 as Kpop Queens. That's why I'm surprised that there's an ongoing debate about who is the Nation's Girlgroup now. Not that I think that the groups you mentioned aren't deserving. It's just that back then suc title is forever yours and is non transferable. 😅
Nayeon's image is also too cutesy and somewhat immature to make waves in the western market. The two most popular members of blackpink Lisa and Jennie also fit western beauty standards. Most importantly they are quite friendly and open and speak in english to the fans. Nayeon fits the korean market perfectly tho. Everyone has their own niche.
I think the main issue with Twice having an underwhelming presence in the western market (and nowadays, in the overall kpop industry) is that JYPE simply doesn't know how to tap into that market properly. They're stuck in the old Kpop ways. And it would've worked and may have made them a hell of an icon in the industry if they debuted in the 2nd gen, but times have changed and you can simply correlate Kpop with just pop, but korean. The 'uniqueness' that kpop offered back then (hallyu wave) cannot be applied to the modern times, so the old ways need to go. That and I think JYPE only has a certain threshold when it comes to their idols' reach, then they start crumbling down. Best example I can think of on how JYPE struggles with tapping into the western market is Wonder Girls. They were literally worldwide because of Nobody, but it seemed like JYPE didn't know what to do and how to handle it, so all Wonder Girls got known for (worldwide) is Nobody and nothing else. It didn't help that JYPE just kept on releasing different versions of Nobody and that it took them 2 years to release a new album that's not related to Nobody. In the end, they just became a one-hit wonder (except in Korea) and faded into the oblivion. Another example I can think of is miss A, but that's a whole other story, mainly focusing on how JYPE struggled with miss A's success and popularity.
this has nothing to do with this video 😭 but will you make a video about illit or just kpop stans in general downplaying hybe groups succes bc they come from a big company and blaming payola
I have a friend who only knows BTS and Black pink, but doesn’t like Kpop, when i tried to introduce her to other artists she wasn’t interested. That’s how influential those 2 groups are in the western market, I’ve seen countless creators and people in the comments sections talk about how they aren’t a fan of Kpop just a fan of black pink and BTS. Because those 2 groups were able to stand out and showcase both their personalities and talent in the west through company PR and involvement in ad campaigns and fashion shows. There are celebrities who know absolutely NOTHING about kpop but will still talk about BP and BTS because it PAYS to be associated with those groups. I remember when lisa first went to Paris fashion week, the crowd was INSANE. Like 99% of fans were there for HER , so much so that other French celebrities had no choice but to take notice of her. I had no idea that Nayeon even was even a brand ambassador
JYP treats its groups like shit. I'm talking from prior experience as a 2nd gen K-pop fan and Aghase. They wronged the members of GOT7 so bad..... At this point in time, both YG and JYP make SM look better because of the individualistic identities each of their groups have. This especially clear with the debut of BABYMONSTER, who clearly are a more vocally talented group. Unpopular but true opinion, all of Black Pink's songs were supposed to be 2NE1's songs. Thus their music worked well in the industry that was still sore from the end of the 2nd generation and resonated more with the Western viewers to whom it was unique and fresh. In a Live, TREASURE's Hyunsuk played the demo version of Batter Up he had created, and let me tell you, it was nothing like the one that was released. It was so much better and had more vocally strong parts in it.
I don't understand why are kpop stans so obsessed with who is the most popular. You should only focus on the things you like, nobody said you have to like BP or their music.
I agree with pretty much all the points you mentioned. Adapting and knowing that the market need is the key, just like you said with BTS (although I wouldn't call it bowing seeing as how they already gaining recognition in the west even back in 2018 when the entered BBH 100 top 10, just strategic thinking) before they were only recognized in the west for their English songs but after they gained the attention of the general public they started breaking in with their Korean songs like how Life Goes On (a Korean song) topped the BBH 100 at no. 1 or how Yet To Come (also a Korean song) got a GRAMMY nomination. You can see how they (as a group at least I'm not talking about the members as soloists) started reverting back to their roots after achieving their goal. They would've eventually made it in the west but this sure sped up the process. Imo. Twice need a song like Dynamite or Money (not in terms of sound but in terms of recognition). They are yet to achieve that with any of their English releases. Kinda off topic, but I think Lisa's relationship is confirmed now.
TWICE seem to know that Korea/Asia is where they reign, I don't think they themselves want western validation, but it's JYPE that wants it for them. It's just odd because when GOT7 were at the label they criticized them from sounding western (whenever Jay B wrote music for the group JYPE said it was too western as a negative thing). I feel JYP didn't plan well enough for TWICE as a long running group. Even in sixteen he scrapped his original plan to debut trainees he decided on beforehand at the last second, he didn't have a solid plan. Also I've noticed that he and the company didn't work to update their sound, because the cute/pop style would get outdated. Half of their music is nostaligc and it ends up staying there if you arent a once. Blackpink may not have as much great music like TWICE but they have individual personas/branding that gets them remembered. They are the closest to a western k pop star that K pop will get (even more than BTS).
1 thing i think u cant argue is twive being the nations gg they were litrally insane in korea but i think except korea and japan bp is bigger and i dont know if u have noticed but a lot and by a lot of idols see them as inspiration like sullyon haewon eunchae ryujin etc
TWICE got me into K-pop in 2018. The one thing I've always said about TWICE and JYPE is that they lack hunger and competitiveness. I feel that the members don't really want more. They are comfortable where they are, which can be a curse or a blessing depending on what the group or company wants. Plus none of them know how to speak English or are savvy socially to mix with the Western market or cultivate relationships there. Also they don't really have the image of being proactive in expressing an ambition they want to tackle or show different sides of them. Unfortunately they are stagnant. I'm surprised they got as much recognition and support as they did as far as selling out Arenas and Stadiums in the West.
During 2019, jype should've came with the units, solos etc. At that time their popularity in asia was established. They couldve done so much but jype is too scared to try bc of the Suzy situation. Members like tzuyu sana mina couldve done things in the fashion industry or acting for example. But jype would rather not try and fail, then try and have atleast somr succes.
Yall- As a strong twice STAN, not even fan, i will always love those women and what they've brought to the table thus far. I've eaten it up (within reason, of course...). However, as a stan, i feel as though it is also my duty to understand and accept, that they are not the golden women of K-pop. Yes, we understand their accomplishments, but that should not overshadow the depth of the business aspect within this industry. Without the proper moves being made, like doubling down on some of the trends in music recently, actually improving the qualities in each INDIVIDUAL MEMBER, they're almost doomed to run in these circles with the same debates among their fans. As a stan that wants to see them actually improve, I'd be DAMNED if imma let that group go out there lookin a mess. Although, as onces, we've essentially done that in mistaking impact for influence. They've influenced THEY'RE FANS/STANS to stream wherever they are. If we're being quite frank, i don't think theyve done much in the WESTERN MARKET outside of their fans in the west. Which, as she said, are two very different things. Let's look at the facts instead of being so caught up in the love we have for them as a group that we just wanna believe any and everything that remotely comes across our screens. If we're being logical here for a second, JYP added Tzuyu to the group for the purpose of the group having an all time favorite; with some more training before debuting, she couldve done much more than what onces have kind of settled for atp. They all have potential, but we've forced ourselves into thinking this is all they can be, and its the best thing since sliced bread. Twice has remained stagnant in their popularity for the past few years now as more groups have come out offering the fresh and new with an idea of how to crack the code to GAIN the MARKET. Twice hasnt really gained or lost, and they're almost doomed to stay that way until they double down and actually focus on more than influence and popularity. The filler roles were a hard pill to swallow, but i fully understand it. JYP has essentially squandered their talent all for the sake of being looked at as just a group, not a collection of individuals with potential. Chaeyoung was actually a decent rapper at a point with a good voice, now thats essentially all she is as there is no real improvement. That's just an example as one that would be considered a "filler member" as everglow-up had stated. I dont know a damn think about marketing, but i do know music and trends. They seem to be settling and it seems to be biting them in the ass at the end. All I am saying is, onces, let's actually analyze and have an original thought instead of running from the truth
I remember when I tried to introduce one of my friends to kpop. I showed her some songs and she just wasn't into it (which is completely fine, everyone has their own tastes in music). However, she did tell me that the only kpop group that she has actually been able to enjoy and listen to is Blackpink. Goes to show how YG knows how to market them to people in the West.
if im being honest, this just seems like one of the many mistakes done by jyp. the title in my opinion is correct beyond belief. jyp is giving these girls ONE comeback a year, throwing them into one world tour after the next. not only that but the way there organizing the girls solo debuts is also very messy in itself. recently, they have been 'marketing' tuzyus comeback for September, however in my opinion this is another one of there many mistakes for western marketing. tuzyu, while I have no dislike of her, is nowhere near the third debut that needs to occur, her vocals, stage presence, or even dance skills are not the strongest to stand out on her own yet and honestly, I would say that for most of the girls except for Momo and Jeyoung (I know I misspelled it) . that doesn't mean with time she cant improve, but right now would not be the best time. not to even mention the weak marketing for tuzyu AND jihyos solo comeback, with neyon having a good yet misguided comeback, honestly not fitting neyon or her style very well. the skills these girls have are no longer really being utilized anymore, and there 'once a year comebacks' are not charting. they have set them aside with world tours. IDK if this makes me crazy but, its just what it seems like.
Wow. I like your analysis even when it's brutal because it's never based on emotions. Being a Blink and a Once (and Neverland, Fearnot..), I can understand the frustration when the reality do not go the way we want and by the way, that should not prevent us to love a band because love should not be conditional. But one cannot change what he is not aware of.
This is literally just the power of fandom and a well (not honestly) marketed product. Im no BTS fan but musically Blackpink is laughable compared to them or even TWICE lbr. YG's smart marketing and media training should get the credit here.
Blackpink is my ult group and the reason why I got into Kpop. It's easy to see why they can grab the attention of people who don't know about Kpop or just don't usually like the genre. I feel like people also fail to realize back then, that JYP and SM didn't really care about the western fans compared to YG. We never got subtitles for any music videos or variety content compared to today where its most common. JYP and SM heavily marketed towards the Japanese and Chinese market, and I feel only after seeing groups like Blackpink, Loona, Ateez, and more that they are trying to pivot to marketing to the western audience. It also helps that 3 out of the 4 girls speak English, and I know that people might dismiss this point, but it does matter greatly when it comes to making connections outside of Korea. That's why you see groups learning different languages now.
I would add the fact that most of BP charting songs on the west aren't even their full english songs lol. They have YET to release a tittle song in full english, even 'Ice Cream' had korean in Lisa's rap lol. BP success globally is because their music is relatable and pretty much a vibe. Just think about this: can you imagine people twerking at the club to the beat of 'How You Like That'? YES! Now, can you imagine people twerking to 'The Feels'? LMAO, HELL TF NO!
@@thatoneperson731 Musically relatable, what does having money or wear luxury brands have to do with people vibing to their music? LMAO. You can be the poorest person in the world and enjoy any musician, tf?
The problem with BP, as ARMY, is that they at one point spended more time doing actual fashion than music. There was a point Viviz had more music than them almost as rookies if we take out solos and remixes. There is no problem with musicians doing fashion as long as they actually are releasing music more or less consistent and in kpop that means an album or mini album at least once a year.
1) English-speaking members; 2) Girl crush theme, instead of cutesy; 3). Four members, instead of too many members, less difficult to differentiate for non-stans.
I swear. Most kpop companies think that its just the group releasing English songs and that is it.
Which is very not true. You need to act like an American artist when it comes to releasing English songs
1. What the market is looking at.
2. Interesting song and video
3. The collaborations on that album.
4. The fashion collaborations as well as attending the invite parties and shows.
5. Go to those late night shows.
6. Accept that you are going to promote that album for 2 months STRAIGHT without rest.
7. Perform where the general public is always tuned in.
Lastly, who are they outside the group?
your point is extremely valid but it affect blackpink aswell, TWICEs English tracks have done amazing, however blackpink do many more English tracks, and it helps when half your members speak English as a 2nd language, the difference is the smaller amount of members, and the formula they redo, not creating any hype, yet fans still eat it up, so they essentially have something that people know is coming, which from a musical standpoint, sucks for a general audience because when you’re releasing music every 2 years, it gets EXTREMELY boring, but for Blinks, they love it for some reason, it does them justice from a marketing standpoint. so yes, blackpink are WAYYYY more popular and successful, but it’s more to do with the formulaic music coming from them. I believe JYP saw that from 2015-2019, TWICE were leagues ahead of blackpink in Korea and Asia as a whole, so he focused his attention there. That meant that by the time TWICE tried to appeal to a western audience (2020-2024), blackpink had already infiltrated with D4. Collabs don’t necessarily equal success on both ends, sure blackpink has some collaborations but icecream is known as their worst song, 2 of them are legally owned by the other artist and 1 is a bside with no promotion. TWICE’s collabs are Korean artists like HEIZE, or Wonstein, so they know there audience, similar to how blackpink only work with non-asian artists.
@@RoyaleMusical
1. I don't want to sound sexist, but BTS made English tracks and we're still not speaking English properly. Look at JK GOLDEN.
2. When releasing English albums and tracks and if you want to achieve a huge level of success, you have to get co-signs from huge artists from that country.
Key examples: BTS collaborated with Steve Aoki, Lauv, Charlie Puth and their biggest that really put them on the map to stay was definitely Coldplay. That band is basically a gate keeper when it comes to bands. That co-sign from Coldplay let the American community know that BTS was worth listening to and that they can support them. And during the butter and dynamite promotions , they shoved the songs in our faces. They made themselves be EVERYWHERE, from radio, to TV, to YT. And people just ended up listening to the songs and became fans. They promoted for an entire year during q*arantine, just for those three songs.
Blackpink they collaborated with Dua Lipa, Lady Gaga and their biggest staple was Selena Gomez. Selena is a very lucrative co-sign, because even though she has average talent, her clean image and her HUGE fanbase and her fans eat everything up.
And what does Twice have interms of English collaborations? Nothing.
It's not about the music you make, most times it's all about the connections through the collaborations.
If Twice really want people to give them credit for being a popular GG in America, they should just offer Taylor Swift 5 million for a collaboration and watch how the media and the fans will EAT up everything.
The problem is that JYP is too stuck promoting Twice as a boy groups instead of leveraging ggs. And what is the biggest advantage that GGs have over BGs? The GP attention! And to fumble such a bag is complete idiocy. 🙄
See how JYP still doesn't understand how to promote Nmixx even when they are TOO talented for their own good.
Look at ITZY, and I can't even believe that I would ever say this, but ATEEZ has already surpassed them in popularity, and that is not easy. Considering that they are a lucrative 5 member group. By the time JYP realizes how to actively promote GGs, we won't see any of the get the success they want.
And it's not even about having the IT factor, it's about making the girls an IT group and JYP failed.
Forgive me for rambling 🤭🤭, all I wanted to say is that, it's not always about the song, it's about the surrounding too, and most people seem to forget that. 🤭
It's all MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING. 🤷🏾♀️
@@donttalk372 yeah and again, you’re point is amazing, but the reasons for the BTS take-over was because if HYBE using payola to get it on the radio CONSTANTLY, which worked for them ig. i think JYP just can’t figure out when to put time into the girls and when to lay off for a bit
@@RoyaleMusical you do realize that the entire big 4 uses payola. 😭😭😭😭😭
Let's not lie here. They all use payola.
Still twice is not popular, they messed up during western promotions.
Hate the game not the player.
I don't see y'all hating on Doja Cat when she uses payola and now has a sizable fanbase.
Secondly, did you even read my statement? It takes more than just payola!
Pay attention 🤣🤭.
Twice has a sh*tty western management team. If your management is sh*tty, you flop end of story. 😀
@@donttalk372 twice aren’t flops though, they just don’t know how to manage their payola, hybe and yg are constantly using payola, but clearly JYP is using it wisely, thinking of where to put more care and money
I honestly feel like BLACKPINK having 4 members and 3 with English names really helped their growth in the west
It has nothing to do with it, BTS doesn't have one member with a conventional western name and they are seven members. Twice is simply not relatable and that's very important in the west. Besides, there are many famous groups and the general people only know the group's name, not the members, example: Pussycat Dolls. 🤷
However, it did help each BP member to stand out, since everybody knows them as individuals too.
@@tomasleon3148yes but it time BTS a lot longer to gain the popularity that BP did in 2 years
I think the english fluency helps a lot. That's one of the reasons why Jisoo lagged behind in popularity in the west. If Twice spent the past 8 years gaining some fluency in english, it would have helped them a lot to show their personalities
That's a relevant point - but on the other hand: 6 members of BTS aren't fluent in English either, especially not Jungkook. But he's good at pronouncing English. So if the general public hears him on the radio, they can barely tell that he's not an English speaker.
But look at bts, namjoon is the only one fluent in English but he's the least popular member so your point does fall flat.
not really he point. jisoo has gotten a lot more popular now, and if you look at bts, the members with the poirest english skills are the most popular - jimin, taehyung and jungkook
100% agree, when half your members were raised speaking English, with another one knowing fluent English, and the final member learning it, it’s wayyy easier to manage than 9 girls trying to learn English from scratch. The English is a HUGE factor that helps blackpink.
@@RoyaleMusical namjoon is the only fluent bts member in English yet he's the least popular and bts are the most popular and biggest group in the world so your point falls flat.
great video, it is funny how this messaging can apply to so many 4th gg fandoms who think BP are irrelevant at this point in time, just bc of their favs charting success. Charts success does not equal impact
Also they're charting because blackpink hiatus between comeback increased like their last comeback was in 2022.
If blackpink were releasing the songs, I think it would have been quite difficult for them to chart (4th and 5th gen group still be on charts but competition will increase)
@@PrachiSingh-ml9rplies again. When Blackpink came back in 2022, 4th gen groups like IVE and new jeans were charting above them. Their presence had no impact on charting.
@@melliexcx blackpink got pak with pink venom and got #1 on flo, genie and bugs chart and #2 on melon charts
They were longest charting gg on spotify that year too.
So what's your point???
@@PrachiSingh-ml9rp that's not true,no 3rd gen group get pak after 2021 lmao, it's now completely dominated by 4th gen gg and 5th gen bg
@@melliexcx dont even start those groups are NOT coming anywhere near what blackpink did theyve achieved way too much for newgen groups to even be compared to them
Don't forget LVMH was a major shareholder of YG entertainment for some time after seeing the influence of G-Dragon on fashion. In the end, they withdraw, making a loss, but not before most of Blackpink represented their brands, making them millions.
This is such a good way of explaining it without dragging any groups
I also think her fans don't realize that Nayeon isn't that popular in the west out of all the Twice members. I think her solo achievements and her being the center makes people think she's bigger than what she is. As a Once myself, I always say as delusional as Blinks are, people have to accept the fact that BP are on a level that is hard to reach. I honestly don't see any other girl groups rivaling BP in the fashion world aside from Wonyoung or Aespa. And even that's a stretch because Aespa would have to reach BP's level of relevance to scratch the surface, which is tricky because they're still new and almost every kpop/korean celebrity is being added to the roster for western brands, which results in brands just grabbing whatever idol/celebrity they can.
Wow you ate. Coz the pinks uses to be called Instagram influencers but now everybody wants their faves to be global ambassadors they try to down play blackpink's success.
Like the audacity to say my faves ended bp as if they were not on their throat last few years
That nickname was because BP spended more time modeling than promoting music at the end of their time as BP.
@@belaytriks well turns out everyone now wants their faves to be model s
Blackpink was and still is called "Instagram models/influencers" because they are modeling more than doing music.
Fashion and modeling has ALWAYS been a part of the kpop industry. Blackpink didn't create that, neither is there anything wrong with working with different brands.
It's really up to the individual group and label to decide how much they prioritize it.
It's Blinks who's acting like kpop idols getting branddeals are specific or specially created to Blackpink when it reality it's YG who created their entire image around them and not the other way around.
I don’t agree blackpink did become more influencers than idols in the last few years, sometimes being extremely popular isn’t always based on achievements or you being good especially in the age of mediocrity
Waiting for the next Blackpink Olympics video. I'm eager to see what you have for Rosé stans
me tooo 🤗🫶🏻💕
Yes we need it
@@Everythingz127 still waiting😔
The Big 3 has been battling it out in the Western market since 2nd gen and there's a reason why YGE dominated from Se7en to PSY to 2ne1 to now with Blackpink. Not only is their music adjacent to Western audience ( hence the cosign from Western artists which is actually important in order to gain notoriety in industry ), YGE has also already perfected the marketing strategy throughout the years. And Blackpink is pinnacle of that perfected marketing strategy.
There's an argument that could be made that K-pop should prioritize its domestic market, aka South Korea, but because that demographic is so small, there's only so much power they can have, hence why they expanded into the Western market. But I think the better argument against YG's marketing strategy is the fact that their artists don't release music. Like explain to me how Blackpink has only released 32 songs as a group over the course of 7+ years, if we don't include remixes or solo projects? It doesn't matter which market we're discussing--if you can't hold their attention, it's harder to make your groups profitable. I will die on the hill that "Pink Venom" was only as successful as it was because of the two year hiatus that came before.
@@ShootingStarStudio Back in the day ( 2nd gen ) companies and groups tends to focus on specific market that fits them. Like rather on conquering all or trying which is the Kpop climate now. CL herself said that they knew SNSD is unstoppable. And though not spoken it is widely known that Japan market was dominated by Kara and with China it's T-ara. Hence 2ne1 focused on where they had offer and opportunities. Which is the Western. And until now YGE still apply the same principle. Hence if you noticed, Winner have more project in Korea, iKON in Japan ( back when they are still under YGE ) and Blackpink in the West. Not just they gained the most profit that region, they are also marketable there as well.
With regards to releasing music, YGE timeline has always been like that. With the exception of Treasure and now Baemon of course. It seems scare in comparison to majority of Kpop groups, but if you think about that's style is kind of something similar to that of Western artists. I mean there it's pretty normal to release a full album like one every 5 years.
I’d argue that SNSD and Wonder Girls were of similiar popularity and success, if not more successful than 2NE1
@@RoyaleMusical When I said that 2ne1 succeeded the most in the US market amongst their counterparts, I based on how their placement on Billboard Hot 100, number of songs that are actually released and played in the US, number of songs that's used in media like commercials, co-signs by American artists and award.
2ne1 hold some records that are only beaten or tied to a few years ago by BTS.
But that is not to say 2ne1 is more successful than SNSD and WG in an overall aspect. What I just for a specific market which is the US.
It reminds me of big bang. Among the 2nd gen and early 3nd gen groups there were the most popular group in the west. I am just wondering why they didn’t try to go into the western market more? They literally had Korea and Japan in their palm, I would argue that they still have a big impact
One thing to add: Twice will never be popular in some european countries especially germany, with the shirts that chaeyoung wore.
Yeah, that shirt really didn't do them a favor
True
As a German, I agree
True
Twice Have good Popularity in America And Asian Countries,In Europe,Stray Kids Had More Suscessful.
Twice is one of the only groups I actively follow but I love the points you made here. There’s no need for ONCEs to be delusional and as much as I dislike most of Blackpink’s music, they definitely have a bigger impact and that’s just a fact. 💜
Another once here, jype needs to take notes, and onces
yes
They can h*te BP all they want.
But YG knows their marketing, even when we don't like it. 😅
They are really good at that
I am so fucking tired of different fandoms trying to argue about who's more popular. This isn't just about twice vs blackink, its also about skz vs txt, its about ive vs le serafim vs newjeans, its about bts vs blackpink, etc etc etc and the arguments are just the same old fucking shit. Your favourite group doesn't have to be the most popular and a lot of stans need to accept that.
Exactly
So very much true. I love the 3rd Gen holy trinity of girl groups because I love a variety of music, but I refuse to interact with fellow fans of the group for these kinds of reasons. Sometimes not everything is a competition because there's already a clear winner so why bother?
Twice is amazing but there is several reasons i think blackpink is more popular in the west
1 the west likes the bad bitch concept and style more twices cute concept would be appealing to tweens but older audiences are less receptive
2 most girl groups in the west like fifth harmony have five members i think twice having nine members works against them outside the kpop demographic
3 yg marketing for blackpink worked well as far as working in the west
4 blackpink has had exposer outside the kpop watcher's in the west causing people to look them up and give them individual attention
I love twice they are definitely deserving of the praise and love they get but i hate to say this so much my soul hurts but blinks are right
Twice's concept is a lot more than just cute. They also do mature concepts. It doesn't matter which group is more popular or recognized. They are both very successful and loved by many. Popularity is not that important. Joy, happiness, inner peace, health, deep profound love and being of service in a way that makes us happy and fulfilled and the world a better place is.
@brianlittrell797 oh I wasn't trying to say who was better or anything like that I was just giving what I see according to the topic on the video both girl groups are amazing
@@Atinywithsocailanxiety I know you weren't trying to say that. I was addressing one of the points you made in your comment and adding my thoughts on what the video is essentially about - which is popularity.
@brianlittrell797 ok sorry I just wanted to make sure I wasn't taken the wrong way
Agreed 100% I like Twice but, here in the West they arent as hard hitting as Blackpink. The musical taste is more hardhitting and in your face. Twice's early image has been girly, sugar plum fairies, very Shirley Temple cute. There was a time where America liked that, but we are beyond cuteness now.
As a fan of both i dont view them as those stans . Twice is traditional kpop , BP is more western modern with a kpop base . Theyre ying and yang to me .
OMG EXACTLY. TWICE LIKE THE DEFINITION OF KPOP. THATS WHY THEY R SO POPULAR IN *KOREA*
I don’t know about the crazy twitter fans, but if I were a twice member right now, I’d just go with the flow and enjoy the benefits of a large loyal fan base. The general public’s attention while beneficial is also fickle and can easily disappear. The girls can make solo music if they want, or just enjoy the down time they get until they’re put on another tour. I’d also recommend them putting their earnings into some investment so they can live comfortably when their idol days are behind them.
As much as I love twice, onces really need to stop with all the bs. They are always up bp memebers throats and for what? Saying that bp is way ahead of twice isn't hate,it's a reality. I love both groups and support them, but lets not lie and say that they are on the same level of success and popularity.
LMFAO theres no way ur saying onces are up bp members throats. there would be no issue with bp and twice if blinks weren't running their mouth on every twice members posts comments spamming things about bp, why are we getting all delusional now.. how many onces do you see blabbering about twice on a bp members comments unless someone brought them up
As a big Twice fan of 5 years now, I have never once gotten the impression that they are at all popular in the west where I'm from.
It is definitely cool to see that what blackpink where taunted on back in the days is now something so many fans want for their faves too. I’m interested to see the blackpink girlies moves now that they are out of the yg shackles. Jennie seems to be focusing on Korea with her zico collab and tv show appearance. I am especially curious about rose’s future. Has there been any news or rumours on what she’s going to do?
I'm happy that jennie is focusing on Korea rn, I think having a huge and loyal audience in domestic/local market is a strong base.
@@PrachiSingh-ml9rp I agree, she was the most loved in Korea out of the 4 so she’s making the right moves.
The only thing we know about Rosé at the moment is that she is working on solo music
Whether or not she will establish a company or if she’s planning to drop a mini, single or full album remains unknown
@@bartek6846i think she’s going to join billboard!
I’m glad to see you back. Looking forward to watching more of your content again!
Nayeon may be not as popular as Lisa Internationally, but she has a dedicated fan base that adores her for her talent, charm, and personality. This video was entertaining. I always adore your videos and editing.
So does lisa
I believe that JYP, didn't expect Twice to be a star popular as they are in Asia which is why they didn't aim fir the west. Or it could be they were just going for Asia and not the west but wanted money from the west. I also believe they didn't know that Kpop was going to boom they way it did in the west, but your points are very valid, The Feels and their other English tracks do not sound like western demographic songs. I feel the girls could do a more mature concept and they also need to actually work on marketing them as members and not as Twice. (Likw you said)
It's probably down to JYPe's management style being trash. The totally tanked GOT7's projection when at the time GOT7 & BTS were neck and neck and it was CLEAR GOT7 should have been pushed more in the West and had the sound and popularity to do it, but JYPe managers Flopped.
@@silververnallbells191fr Jackson wang was huge in the west they could have marketed him as global it boy plus the Chinese market who's VERY profitable also bambam is Thailand's prince they could have made him like a Male Lias also yugyeom + mark have also a lot of potential they have a lot of English speakers and good group dynamics they just needed the music and the marketing but as usual JYP really doesn't know how to market their groups especially in the west
I think during that time Jyp maybe prioritize that over promoting th individually cause of what happen with miss a, they promoted Suzy a whole lot, and disbalanced the promotion as a group.
@@silververnallbells191 Everytime someone mentions GOT7 management at JYPE I get flashbacks on how they dropped the bag. GOT7 has so much potential and I hope one day they get their viral moment again as a group.
You hit the nail on the head, twice deserves more than what JYP is giving them, and also is that Spotlight by the Royal Three from Rainbow High??? I just finished watching that!
Even though i am a Once, i agree with every single thing said in this video. twice's popularity in the western industry is all because of jyp entertainment not knowing how to properly handle them. Both groups have their strengths and weaknesses and yes, onces were naive to even compare blackpink and twice's impact in the western industry. Twice has always been a group that was made for music, but not music music, i mean kpop, korean, or asian music. And i think that not all but some onces need to learn that it doesnt really matter how successful twice is in terms of music achievements, records, or awards if they're talking about influence and fashion related anything. It just obviously doesnt match up.
You're finally back, I missed you and your videos. It's great to see you uploaded today. Thank you and have a wonderful day.
I actually thought minas stage preseb3c has gotten better in stages and yes tweeking is not sp but the whole 7 rings performence her facial expression amd energy was insane so i do belive she has improved
Misamo showcases are even better and a proof that she improve
People who try so hard to invalidate her stage presence huge improvement are making me laugh 😂
NAH BCS THAT INTRZO MUSIC AND ART WENT SO HARD
Whooo our girl is BACK ! ❤🤗🙌🙌
I live for your Blackpink commentary
I have really enjoyed your videos for more than a year now and I didn’t want to be a ghost viewer anymore. Your content is amazing and very well thought out. You’re literally one of the three RUclipsrs I look to for K-Pop content because you aren’t afraid to be true to yourself. I hope you know how much I respect you and your views on things. You really make me think about stuff in more depth, so thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us ❤
tysm 🎀🤍
Also the shirt drama makes it very hard for them to build a loyal fanbase in Germany
I don't care about any of them but I know that the video will be entertaining and really well crafted. Amazing job,.
This was so goood you ate as usual so proud of you 💙
thanks babe 💙
tbh Twice is my favorite group don't get me wrong I really love them but BP has more individual personality and greater impact and the fact that this is not because Twice are incompetent or because they are boring but because Jyp doesn't know how to manage them
My girl is back to slayyy ❤❤
I'm happy you're back! We love you!
YGE promoted BP better than JYPE promoted TWICE, end of the video. Honestly, I'm kinda happy JYPE didn't promoted them the way yge did with bp. More popularity -> more fans -> more toxic fans and I don't want it in my fandom. I don't want the situation where Nayeon does something and the whole fandom calling her a wh*re like blinks did with Lisa after the crazy horse event. I prefer TWICE to be more recognizable in East Asia because the girls are from that region. For the solos - I think Chae could be a soloist too if she put some work in dancing. Momo would probably wont go solo because of all the hate she got for her vocals from other fandoms (most blinks and army I think).
The last one is a bit wrong yes blinks and armies criticised momo but more than them were sm stans and mamamoo fans.
@@manogaming6534 Honestly I doubt that, they probably just used Mamamoo and SME as a shield, so that other fandoms wouldn’t be able to do the same and call out Bp and Bts weak vocalists.
@@manogaming6534 I was there when Momo got dragged by that encore and let me tell you, most of the comments that I found are legit come from Blink and I mean, Blink only with some Army or Bangpink stans join the slandering for fun. Moomoo (Mamamoo fandom) usually has a beef with Blink more and SM stans usually mention Momo only when Once come to drag them first or when they want to talk about vocal topics.
Only blinks hate momo
@@ketakikhobragade7168 I said other fandoms because I wasnt sure
I love both groups, but one big lesson of Blackpink vs. Twice is that a group with many members is capping its success in the West. YG will find this out with Babymonster. But that’s just the start, and you nailed the other reasons. Great job.
I also wonder if YG is ready for challenge to market BM for wester market with more members. I think they know it because Treasure which debuted with 12 members were meant for Korea and Japan and they gained pretty good fan base in Japan. But they yet to try to break in to western market, this makes me think that they know they can't market them because of number of members and doesn't try at all. So they might have considered it already and I think even early on their career they are giving unique and individual roles to Babymonster. So it will be easier later on.
Glad your back love ❤❤
Great video! As someone who watched in real time JYPE's attempts to market Wonder Girls in the West, it seems clear to me that the company did not want to make the same mistake twice. If I remember correctly, the members of Wonder Girls bluntly stated in interviews that their struggles to make it in the West left their Korean fanbase feeling neglected, and that their absence in their home country greatly diminished their overall popularity with the Korean general public. I truly think JYPE did not want to even consider the Western market until it was impossible not to- Twice brought back the success WG had and multiplied it tenfold, and JYPE was content with that for years. But as BTS and Blackpink became THE examples of kpop success in the West, it put pressure on other companies to try to follow suit.
And when JYPE did attempt to foster and grow Twice's impact in the West, specifically the US, a few comebacks ago, the Korean fanbase complained to the company and directly to the members, and organized boycotts of Twice events when the girls returned to Korea. I'm not gonna sit here and say JYPE is doing the most with marketing the girls (I agree 100% with your analysis on the lack of fostering individuality), but the quick response of negativity from Korean fans definitely isn't helping, it's like the events that led to WG's decline happening all over again.
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with Twice just being a huge success in Asia. I started listening to kpop many years ago because it brought something the Western market was lacking, and I am not the biggest fan of kpop groups having to change or appeal to the Western non-kpop-fan audience. But I also know it is the nature of companies to want to expand, dominate and, most importantly, make that sweet dough.
Last thought - I don't understand the obsession with whether any and every twice member (or any kpop group's members, for that matter) will be a "sucessful" soloist. I think a member should try if they want. It stifles creativity when people think artists should only attempt to make music if they're gonna be the hottest and most successful artist at the time.
6:18 “which is riding the wave of popularity of a group till kingdom come” HEY ALEXA PLAY KINGDOM COME BY RED VELVET 😂
Queen came back to eat
And left no crumbs
@@Everythingz127 and then cleaned the table
Yass @@maarshiexcryxx
You hear how out of breath she is recording this? Shes def been eating entire plates!
I think another reason as to why so many fandoms are so brave when it comes to arguing with BLINKs about which group is more popular/successful is that many BLINKs literally do not know how to argue or “which cards to pull” to actually win the said argument
They often bring up points that can be easily argued with instead of showing direct comparisons of stats in a specific area that are impossible to argue with
They only bring the numbers alone instead of showing them in a bigger picture that would immediately shut the whole argument down
Maybe Blinks know that if they use numbers only, as long as it's not Instagram or RUclips, Armys might come for them in some kind of "I told you so" way. For example, at the moment the monthly listeners on Spotify are 11 million for Twice and 17 million for Blackpink, but 28 million for BTS. Jennie has 33 million though (Jungkook 26, Lisa 7, V 8, Jimin & j-hope 6 and everyone else under 5). It's more complicated to find stats on album and ticket sales but if Blinks wanna compare BP with all Korean groups in those categories, they're gonna be no. 2 most of the time and that's not fun for people with a very competitive mindset.
Blinks know which cards to pull but as soon as they do, the members are slut shamed instead that's why that point of lisa dating the heir of LVMH comes in. And the constant down playing of the pinks success
As blink though I disagree too many would continue downplay even if you them straight facts
Envy is the reason
BTS didn't bow down, they were already famous in the west, they did NOT need for 3 English songs to make them breakthrough. They were the ones invited to all those western award shows before any of the other group or their 3 English songs which Kpop fans will speak about until the day they day trying to prove something. And the members individually decided what kind of image they wanted to have and musically and promotionally wise, they acted accordingly. But, if we take J hope as an example, all he needed was a lollapalooza performance with a full Korean album and mixtape to pique the locals' interest because his music is just simply good. BTS didn't need to appeal to the western market, they were already in the western market with full Korean songs and I am not even sure BH was that smart in promoting them at the time, they did it cause they are genuinely good musicians and performers.
And BTS have applied to the Grammys with Korean songs and albums even after dynamite and the success of butter.
Yey you're back I missed you❤️
Yes we are back y’all
Yassss
I like TT, Likey, Fancy, Cheer Up, and The Feels. And Donut. But, the other songs, I don't hate it. I just think that their new music has a good genre and is attractive even if it sounds good. It's gotten uninteresting. They should have had more marketing for each individual member to do many projects.
Hell the lack of Individuality in Twice is also what is widening the gap between them and stray kids in a way.
Also The only song in my opinion that made waves in general western public was 'the feels"
the presentation of the video, the editing, great explanation of the topic. luv it !!
Onces as a whole used to be a lot of fun. But the Blackpink Delulu has set in for them, where they have to crap on Blackpink to validate Twice. That is the essence of Blackpink Delulu, where you are threatened by Blackpink's popularity so much that you have to trash talk them.
And who started that? Oh yeah it was blinks!
@@Rat-vt4xr If blinks were to eat trash, would onces also do it?
@@Rat-vt4xrin this context how so ?
@@zoi7582 when a blink argues with you they degrade the artists talent and go after them instead of having a civilized conversation.
@@zoi7582 And also, I meant in general
Finally you're back, I've been checking your channel everyday to see an upload ❤
sorry for making you wait
It's ok, I need your good editing to cleanse my eyes❤@@everglowup
Off topic but I'm missing your stage presence video SO SO MUCH!!! now we have so many new group, need your analysis!!
Totally agree ✨
Your editing never fails plus you always keep it real
I like twice's music much more than bp's and overall I vibe with them more, but I can't argue with your points about twice's popularity in western market, especially with the "strong Fandom support" one. The only thing I have to say is that it extends to a point with bts and BP too. I dont live in US (eastern Europe here) but I think A LOT of those records also are due to fandoms, not really general public. The only cases there I would believe in gp is viral tt songs or just good songs that chart well (these two are somewhat interchangeable tho)
First, I wanna say I love your channel. I’ve been a fan for a very long time and I enjoy both groups and their music.
I do think you have valid points, but I do want to say that both groups are successful in their own rights and this is giving very 2ne1 vs girl generation from back in the day. I just think that this video may show a bit bias instead of focusing on the point that this rivalry is created by the fan and we should be able to exist in the world where were able to support both groups. But I think add some parts of the video of the tonality, in some parts was giving putting down one group to highlight another, which I think there’s a way to compare and analyze and contrast without doing that.. again I love your channel, and I just would rather focus on that. These groups are individually successful in their own way, and there’s no need to compare, and the fans don’t need to create competition amongst these girls. Both groups have carved their own place in history, and I would rather focus on uplifting that instead of feeding into this imaginary competition at the fans of cooked.
And again, I’ve been a fan of your channel for a very long time, and you’ve always given great food for thought, and I look forward for more of your content in the future
😂Bloody hell. Even as a Lisa fan I'm wondering what Twice has done to p**s you off like this.
it's a simple analysis lol, it's not that serious 😂 chill
@@everglowup Catch my laugh. I smiled throughout. Took me back to my all-girl Catholic school days. Proper viciousness over things that were forgotten by home time.
@@everglowup youre wrong about the talking points for big 3 ggs being outside of music. It was album sales, awards, performances? You’re just going off your memory of that time and not providing proof that correlates to your claims, so it’s not analytical. It’s not that hard to just give opinions, without presenting it as facts. It’s painful to see you cower from criticism and also your lack self awareness about your end comments apply to how you approach most of your commentary.
@@everglowup look at fifty fifty now, how new jeans ceo is having beef with hybe, and how the bp members have separate companies. They all have great achievements in the west but I wouldn’t consider their strategies to be good for the groups. The western pop group scene is dead, because the groups went down in flames despite their impact. Twices popularity relying on kpop fans doesn’t necessarily mean it’s illegitimate popularity when it provides more stability. Also, aren’t you in an eastern country and against western standards so why are you posing as an expert?
@@everglowup aw now let's compare 5th harmony with bp especially camila with lisa
Also kinda funny how Tzuyu got her solo on the way... Yeah none could make solos other then nayeon and jihyo
girlie we need more shorts/ur takes on stuff i feel like the hate from that one short impacted on you so much, even tho i don't agree on certain takes you make i still want to hear some of your opinions since many thing have been happening lately don't be afraid to speak ur mind🤍
To add to the that BP focus on individuality and being fluent in English, 75% of the members (3/4) were raised/ lived outside of Korea. Thailand, Australia and New Zealand have way more relaxed views compared to Korea. Like watching their first Weekly Idol appearance you could tell they were really trying to act cute and awkward compared to Jisoo. Twice has always followed Korean girl group similar to SNSD, although I feel the girls in SNSD definitely developed into their own different personalities (also had Korean American members, 4 members technically born in California and decent range of English speaking abilities among the members). Twice is the more conservative version of them and it's kind of refreshing that the Korean public is starting expect more from K-pop music/groups.
In other words if TWICE had good rappers they would’ve already produced this hard hitting girl crush concepts the western general public like
Compare yes but compete no never.
I like Twice and Blackpink the same. I love that Twice has this happy kind of music, which makes me wanna smile again, cheer up and have fun, while Blackpink can make me not care, or at least make me feel like I don’t care about other people’s opinions, which is why I love both, both are great groups, Blackpink’s success is bigger, no doubt in that, but both have great idols, who worked hard for their success
sorry but i feel like u really did downplay twices popularity i like them as much as blackpink maybe a little more or less depending on the day they sold out stadiums in europe and usa u dont understand how crazy of a feat they filled sofi and many with 10s of thousands of pepl i belive that bp is more popular no doubt but twice filling bigger stadiums winning billboard awards. My point is bp is more popular no argument but id say twice is way more popular then any group except for twice and bts (except maybe stray kids ) filling out stadiums is no joke amd u cant downplay almost 100000 people
But blackpink are more popular than twice they even sold out stadiums just like twice I don't see what's your point?
@@minrina I think they're trying to say that she downplayed Twice's popularity generally.
I had zero interest in kpop until I discovered Blackpink. They're now my ult group and also a casual listener to other kpop gg's, including Twice. If it hasn't been for BP, I would have never been pulled into kpop.
This is unrelated but it makes sense to mention it under this video. Guess which group is rising to be palatable to western audience? Kiss of life. Less members, fluent English speakers, individuality right from the debut, ethnicity outside of Korea. S2 is cooking for next big thing. I am not really sure about their marketing maybe they lack funds for now since company is not even mid sized company. But they are giving them good songs for now and finally they got mushow win, which is their first win as a group.
I think overall, the cutesy kind of vibe just doesn't really last in the west. Like, every single Disney darling transitioned drastically from their cutesy image to edgy and sexually provocative.
Blackpink had the badass vibe since day one so their image suits well in the west. But of course, it doesn't end there. Many kpop girl groups followed their pattern but didn't stick. It's still a matter of taste among the masses.
on the other hand,
9:15 I don't remember BTS swore they'll never make English songs?? RM even said on a radio interview that they were open to it. They're cool with releasing English songs, they just don't see themselves making an English album as a group.
If I can play devil's advocate here for a moment, why does Twice need to be popular in the Western market? Why can't they focus on Asia as they always have? Why do they need to change? Their English fluency is low but their Japanese fluency is high. They're very popular in Taiwan and all of SEA. There’s mainland China fans too. That’s billions of fans to appeal to outside of the West. From a business perspective, it's smart not to compete with your rivals in the same market niche. Rather, why not collaborate with Blackpink to share popularity in both markets? Each group can promote the other. Twice's popularly is with men, Blackpink's is with women. Why not show each gender their power to strengthen their popularity over all? Show a tough sider to Twice and softer side to Blackpink. I think they can learn a lot from each other.
This is such a great video. Twice and BP are friends but their some of their fans are having arguments. Sighs.
Can you also do a topic about the debate Korea's nation girl group? And about the Live vocals issue?
Waiting for the next episode of Blackpink Olympics.
Edit
I heard from Onces that the group is called Twice because Two Visuals Tzuyu and Sana, Two Vocalists Jihyo and Jeongyeon (sorry if wrong spelling), Two Dancers Momo and Mina, Two Rappers Dahyun and Chaeyoung and Leader and Center Nayeon?
Genuine question. I'm not really well versed with 3rd gen Kpop history, but is any of them actually awarded or even dubbed as Nation's Girl group?
I mean cause I know SNSD was called that because one government official gave them the title Nation's Girlgroup in of the event they performed in.
@@user-ye5og4wj1s Well there is a debate who among the holy trinity of third gen was among Blackpink, Twice and Red Velvet. And on 4th gen the debate is between IVE, Le Sserafim and New Jeans.
@@user-ye5og4wj1s I didn't know that it was given by a government official and not just a fanmade title. 😲
@@Multifandomgirl1499I hear the news few days ago that Korean government has officially said snsd and blackpink are nation's girl group
Idk how true is that
@@Multifandomgirl1499 yes at least for 2nd the tiles are usually given by someone of a position. Like that case of SNSD or how industry experts back in the day dubbed 2ne1 as Kpop Queens.
That's why I'm surprised that there's an ongoing debate about who is the Nation's Girlgroup now. Not that I think that the groups you mentioned aren't deserving. It's just that back then suc title is forever yours and is non transferable. 😅
Nayeon's image is also too cutesy and somewhat immature to make waves in the western market. The two most popular members of blackpink Lisa and Jennie also fit western beauty standards. Most importantly they are quite friendly and open and speak in english to the fans. Nayeon fits the korean market perfectly tho. Everyone has their own niche.
I didnt even know Nayeon was there, tbh. I love Twice, but baby, im not so delulu to come for Blinks. I like my sanity and peace.
Relationship or not ,lisa success doesn't diminish
I think the main issue with Twice having an underwhelming presence in the western market (and nowadays, in the overall kpop industry) is that JYPE simply doesn't know how to tap into that market properly. They're stuck in the old Kpop ways. And it would've worked and may have made them a hell of an icon in the industry if they debuted in the 2nd gen, but times have changed and you can simply correlate Kpop with just pop, but korean. The 'uniqueness' that kpop offered back then (hallyu wave) cannot be applied to the modern times, so the old ways need to go. That and I think JYPE only has a certain threshold when it comes to their idols' reach, then they start crumbling down.
Best example I can think of on how JYPE struggles with tapping into the western market is Wonder Girls. They were literally worldwide because of Nobody, but it seemed like JYPE didn't know what to do and how to handle it, so all Wonder Girls got known for (worldwide) is Nobody and nothing else. It didn't help that JYPE just kept on releasing different versions of Nobody and that it took them 2 years to release a new album that's not related to Nobody. In the end, they just became a one-hit wonder (except in Korea) and faded into the oblivion.
Another example I can think of is miss A, but that's a whole other story, mainly focusing on how JYPE struggled with miss A's success and popularity.
nayeon is a hot air ballon & lisa is a boeing 777, both can fly, but they're not remotely comparable
I love the intro😭
this has nothing to do with this video 😭 but will you make a video about illit or just kpop stans in general downplaying hybe groups succes bc they come from a big company and blaming payola
I have a friend who only knows BTS and Black pink, but doesn’t like Kpop, when i tried to introduce her to other artists she wasn’t interested. That’s how influential those 2 groups are in the western market, I’ve seen countless creators and people in the comments sections talk about how they aren’t a fan of Kpop just a fan of black pink and BTS. Because those 2 groups were able to stand out and showcase both their personalities and talent in the west through company PR and involvement in ad campaigns and fashion shows. There are celebrities who know absolutely NOTHING about kpop but will still talk about BP and BTS because it PAYS to be associated with those groups. I remember when lisa first went to Paris fashion week, the crowd was INSANE. Like 99% of fans were there for HER , so much so that other French celebrities had no choice but to take notice of her. I had no idea that Nayeon even was even a brand ambassador
Hey Cheryl ,
I don't know if you would see this but can you do stage presence analysis of NewJeans, Le sserafim , Kiss of Life and Nmixx ?
JYP treats its groups like shit. I'm talking from prior experience as a 2nd gen K-pop fan and Aghase. They wronged the members of GOT7 so bad..... At this point in time, both YG and JYP make SM look better because of the individualistic identities each of their groups have. This especially clear with the debut of BABYMONSTER, who clearly are a more vocally talented group. Unpopular but true opinion, all of Black Pink's songs were supposed to be 2NE1's songs. Thus their music worked well in the industry that was still sore from the end of the 2nd generation and resonated more with the Western viewers to whom it was unique and fresh. In a Live, TREASURE's Hyunsuk played the demo version of Batter Up he had created, and let me tell you, it was nothing like the one that was released. It was so much better and had more vocally strong parts in it.
I have always said it blackpink is in different league. Comparing any other kpop girl group with them is very funny and just not logical
I don't understand why are kpop stans so obsessed with who is the most popular. You should only focus on the things you like, nobody said you have to like BP or their music.
I agree with pretty much all the points you mentioned. Adapting and knowing that the market need is the key, just like you said with BTS (although I wouldn't call it bowing seeing as how they already gaining recognition in the west even back in 2018 when the entered BBH 100 top 10, just strategic thinking) before they were only recognized in the west for their English songs but after they gained the attention of the general public they started breaking in with their Korean songs like how Life Goes On (a Korean song) topped the BBH 100 at no. 1 or how Yet To Come (also a Korean song) got a GRAMMY nomination. You can see how they (as a group at least I'm not talking about the members as soloists) started reverting back to their roots after achieving their goal. They would've eventually made it in the west but this sure sped up the process.
Imo. Twice need a song like Dynamite or Money (not in terms of sound but in terms of recognition). They are yet to achieve that with any of their English releases.
Kinda off topic, but I think Lisa's relationship is confirmed now.
TWICE seem to know that Korea/Asia is where they reign, I don't think they themselves want western validation, but it's JYPE that wants it for them. It's just odd because when GOT7 were at the label they criticized them from sounding western (whenever Jay B wrote music for the group JYPE said it was too western as a negative thing). I feel JYP didn't plan well enough for TWICE as a long running group. Even in sixteen he scrapped his original plan to debut trainees he decided on beforehand at the last second, he didn't have a solid plan. Also I've noticed that he and the company didn't work to update their sound, because the cute/pop style would get outdated. Half of their music is nostaligc and it ends up staying there if you arent a once. Blackpink may not have as much great music like TWICE but they have individual personas/branding that gets them remembered. They are the closest to a western k pop star that K pop will get (even more than BTS).
1 thing i think u cant argue is twive being the nations gg they were litrally insane in korea but i think except korea and japan bp is bigger and i dont know if u have noticed but a lot and by a lot of idols see them as inspiration like sullyon haewon eunchae ryujin etc
I think that also because no Twice member can speak english is also a factor, BP only has 1 member who's not fluent in english, Twice has nine
TWICE got me into K-pop in 2018. The one thing I've always said about TWICE and JYPE is that they lack hunger and competitiveness. I feel that the members don't really want more. They are comfortable where they are, which can be a curse or a blessing depending on what the group or company wants. Plus none of them know how to speak English or are savvy socially to mix with the Western market or cultivate relationships there. Also they don't really have the image of being proactive in expressing an ambition they want to tackle or show different sides of them. Unfortunately they are stagnant. I'm surprised they got as much recognition and support as they did as far as selling out Arenas and Stadiums in the West.
During 2019, jype should've came with the units, solos etc. At that time their popularity in asia was established. They couldve done so much but jype is too scared to try bc of the Suzy situation.
Members like tzuyu sana mina couldve done things in the fashion industry or acting for example. But jype would rather not try and fail, then try and have atleast somr succes.
Yall-
As a strong twice STAN, not even fan, i will always love those women and what they've brought to the table thus far. I've eaten it up (within reason, of course...). However, as a stan, i feel as though it is also my duty to understand and accept, that they are not the golden women of K-pop. Yes, we understand their accomplishments, but that should not overshadow the depth of the business aspect within this industry. Without the proper moves being made, like doubling down on some of the trends in music recently, actually improving the qualities in each INDIVIDUAL MEMBER, they're almost doomed to run in these circles with the same debates among their fans. As a stan that wants to see them actually improve, I'd be DAMNED if imma let that group go out there lookin a mess. Although, as onces, we've essentially done that in mistaking impact for influence. They've influenced THEY'RE FANS/STANS to stream wherever they are. If we're being quite frank, i don't think theyve done much in the WESTERN MARKET outside of their fans in the west. Which, as she said, are two very different things. Let's look at the facts instead of being so caught up in the love we have for them as a group that we just wanna believe any and everything that remotely comes across our screens. If we're being logical here for a second, JYP added Tzuyu to the group for the purpose of the group having an all time favorite; with some more training before debuting, she couldve done much more than what onces have kind of settled for atp. They all have potential, but we've forced ourselves into thinking this is all they can be, and its the best thing since sliced bread. Twice has remained stagnant in their popularity for the past few years now as more groups have come out offering the fresh and new with an idea of how to crack the code to GAIN the MARKET. Twice hasnt really gained or lost, and they're almost doomed to stay that way until they double down and actually focus on more than influence and popularity. The filler roles were a hard pill to swallow, but i fully understand it. JYP has essentially squandered their talent all for the sake of being looked at as just a group, not a collection of individuals with potential. Chaeyoung was actually a decent rapper at a point with a good voice, now thats essentially all she is as there is no real improvement. That's just an example as one that would be considered a "filler member" as everglow-up had stated. I dont know a damn think about marketing, but i do know music and trends. They seem to be settling and it seems to be biting them in the ass at the end. All I am saying is, onces, let's actually analyze and have an original thought instead of running from the truth
I remember when I tried to introduce one of my friends to kpop. I showed her some songs and she just wasn't into it (which is completely fine, everyone has their own tastes in music). However, she did tell me that the only kpop group that she has actually been able to enjoy and listen to is Blackpink. Goes to show how YG knows how to market them to people in the West.
if im being honest, this just seems like one of the many mistakes done by jyp. the title in my opinion is correct beyond belief. jyp is giving these girls ONE comeback a year, throwing them into one world tour after the next. not only that but the way there organizing the girls solo debuts is also very messy in itself. recently, they have been 'marketing' tuzyus comeback for September, however in my opinion this is another one of there many mistakes for western marketing. tuzyu, while I have no dislike of her, is nowhere near the third debut that needs to occur, her vocals, stage presence, or even dance skills are not the strongest to stand out on her own yet and honestly, I would say that for most of the girls except for Momo and Jeyoung (I know I misspelled it) . that doesn't mean with time she cant improve, but right now would not be the best time. not to even mention the weak marketing for tuzyu AND jihyos solo comeback, with neyon having a good yet misguided comeback, honestly not fitting neyon or her style very well. the skills these girls have are no longer really being utilized anymore, and there 'once a year comebacks' are not charting. they have set them aside with world tours. IDK if this makes me crazy but, its just what it seems like.
Wow. I like your analysis even when it's brutal because it's never based on emotions. Being a Blink and a Once (and Neverland, Fearnot..), I can understand the frustration when the reality do not go the way we want and by the way, that should not prevent us to love a band because love should not be conditional. But one cannot change what he is not aware of.
This is literally just the power of fandom and a well (not honestly) marketed product. Im no BTS fan but musically Blackpink is laughable compared to them or even TWICE lbr.
YG's smart marketing and media training should get the credit here.
I was so annoyed the way there where just bring up FA to undermine lisa ,gosh they were spilling uncessary shit
hey, sorry to bother, but what's the name of the song playing at 3:05?
90's Hero by Hajime Hyakkoku
Thank you! @@nottheboreworms
Blackpink is my ult group and the reason why I got into Kpop. It's easy to see why they can grab the attention of people who don't know about Kpop or just don't usually like the genre.
I feel like people also fail to realize back then, that JYP and SM didn't really care about the western fans compared to YG. We never got subtitles for any music videos or variety content compared to today where its most common. JYP and SM heavily marketed towards the Japanese and Chinese market, and I feel only after seeing groups like Blackpink, Loona, Ateez, and more that they are trying to pivot to marketing to the western audience.
It also helps that 3 out of the 4 girls speak English, and I know that people might dismiss this point, but it does matter greatly when it comes to making connections outside of Korea. That's why you see groups learning different languages now.
I would add the fact that most of BP charting songs on the west aren't even their full english songs lol. They have YET to release a tittle song in full english, even 'Ice Cream' had korean in Lisa's rap lol. BP success globally is because their music is relatable and pretty much a vibe. Just think about this: can you imagine people twerking at the club to the beat of 'How You Like That'? YES! Now, can you imagine people twerking to 'The Feels'? LMAO, HELL TF NO!
in what way is blackpinks music relatable? not sure if their audience are multi millionaires with brands raving at the mouth to collab with them…
@@thatoneperson731 Musically relatable, what does having money or wear luxury brands have to do with people vibing to their music? LMAO. You can be the poorest person in the world and enjoy any musician, tf?
The problem with BP, as ARMY, is that they at one point spended more time doing actual fashion than music. There was a point Viviz had more music than them almost as rookies if we take out solos and remixes.
There is no problem with musicians doing fashion as long as they actually are releasing music more or less consistent and in kpop that means an album or mini album at least once a year.
Girl you spoke facts ❤
1) English-speaking members; 2) Girl crush theme, instead of cutesy; 3). Four members, instead of too many members, less difficult to differentiate for non-stans.