ILLIT's Debut and the Manufactured Nature of Kpop
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- This video is in no way a criticism of the group or the members of said group, discussion surrounding the groups concept inspired the talking points in this video and ILLIT's debut serves as a great opportunity to explore the idea of manufacturing an image and sound. Their music sounds amazing and I wish the members nothing but the best!
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#kpop #illit #hybe
like you said, "to be a fan of something you have to acknowledge all aspects of whatever you're a fan of" 👏
join the fight, boycott hybe!
why is there a boycott for hybr? /gen
@@amoatlas in short (but please be free to read more on it!), we want to cut down hybe’s links to zionism, starting with scooter braun’s involvement (which has become more and more apparent lately). most projects coming from hybe now have zionists behind them - from producers, to collaborators, to CEOs - and we don’t want them using hybe and, especially our favourite artists, to spread and normalise zionism in the world. it’s already ALL over the music industry. slowly but surely we might be able to move things around. but for that we’re gonna need all the help we can get!
@@amoatlas i think it's becuz it's a really Zionist company
@@amoatlas To my knowledge it's due to Scooter Braun (CEO of HYBE America) promoting pro-israel and Zionist rhetoric on his personal instagram stories and Bang PD working closely with him, as well as HYBE inking a huge Universal Music deal. That's all I personally know and I could be wrong, feel free to correct me if so.
@@amoatlas in short (but please be free to read more on it!), we want to cut down hybe's links to zionism, starting with scooter braun's involvement (which has become more and more apparent). most projects coming from hybe now have zionists behind them - from producers (ex. txt and j-hope’s new album), to collaborators (ex. jack harlow), to CEOs (ex. hybe america’s team) - and we don't want them using hybe and, especially our favourite artists, to spread and normalise zionism in the world. it's already ALL over the music industry. slowly but surely we might be able to move things around. but for that we're gonna need all the help we can get!
the UMG deal was only announced this week but yeah it’s only made the path the company is going down clearer to us.
Ill-it members were definitely formed to fit the pre determined concept (and target markets, SK and JP) VS a concept being chosen that fit the members chosen. It makes more sense to me now why Jeemin, Chanelle, and Jiwoo weren't chosen. I think members being chosen based on the concept makes perfect sense, they just went about it the wrong way.
That’s a very good way to think of it. I think the show was just to bring hype and promotion to the group
Nope I watched the whole show and don't believe this for a minute. I think the votes in Korea was the one that made the difference. Wonhee had the most votes.If the members were pre determined..the performance didn't show it.. the camera in each performance showed every members equally and even song lines were sometimes given to girls who didn't make it.
I think votes were the problem here.
What is their concept? I still can't tell.
Traveling between a dream world and real life. ( magic).
Just the 2 first where voted tho and 1 of em isnt in this group😅@@user-rr5ik8dn5j
This will be Hybe’s third girl group in two years with five members and two foreigners. Also their second attempt at making a six member girl group with four Korean members and two Japanese members…yet one of the Korean members from each group left very close to debut. Just some observations
they got a formula down
@@wakasa._.1over no it isnt, did you not read the comment? theyre saying its the third girl group in two years not total
Third girl group *with five members and two foreigners...* @@wakasa._.1over
Katseye is also a 6 member international based girl group but is under hybe. I hope one member does not voluntary exit and somehow manage to leave because of some kind of reason again. 6 member ggs and hybe together in one has been giving me traumas 😂
Some people in Twitter dubbed this “Gfriend’s curse”. If Gfriend cannot stay as 6 under HYBE, then nobody will.
fun fact: the average debut age of illit is actually older than new jeans
Oh! 😃
But the oldest and the youngest in NewJeans is the same as in illit (2004-08)
But their look is about 2 or 3 years younger than NewJeans current teen look ... So, wouldn't that target the age group NewJeans targeted during their debut in 2022 ?
@@anitaude1187 well yeah, they are debuting nearly 2 years after newjeans despite the oldest and youngest being the same age as newjeans’ oldest and youngest. Had they debuted during the same year, the average age would be the same.
NewJeans age during debut (2022):
18,18,17,16,14
Average = 16.6
Illit’s age during debut (2024):
20,20,20,17,16
Average = 18.6
Illit’s age in 2022:
18,18,18,15,14
Average = 16.6
I feel like it’s because of Wonhee, she’s really portrayed and marketed as extremely young and bubbly (cause she looks like it) so people are mad, and ye she’s still very young but most of the other members are older
Viewers need to adjust their expectations accordingly.
People need to realise that RUNext was an “in-house” survival show for a permanent group. They were all trainees from the same company, not other agencies. In-house survival shows serve two main purposes and that’s marketing and research. It’s basically a way for the company to promote the group, figure out which trainees are popular and who’s not, also to evaluate which trainees can perform under more pressure. And from there they will have their favourites based on who they think will fit the concept.
Yes how is that hard to understand
People got mad because only 2 of the where voted in but they could just not let u vote at all 😅 (and it wouldnt be riged because they make the rules)
Some of the members cams from other companies. Iroha trained under jyp . Minju trained under yg.
Some of the were even sm entertainment trainee
@@nicoleloss7987 they had all left those companies and joined HYBE before RUNext premiered. My point is that they don’t have another agency to help fight for their interests on the show. So basically HYBE could do almost anything and no other company could complain on the contestants’ behalf.
An adequate opinion 👍🏻
@@nicoleloss7987they were all trainees under Hybe before the survival show regardless of previous companies they trained before
In many ways K-pop has more in common with Hollywood than it does with the Western music industry. You can view idols more like actors, songwriters/composers like directors and screenwriters and groups as film franchises. Hence it can seem more “manufactured” than the Western music industry which is more based on the whims of the artist rather than the record label.
That was put so eliquently
And more old school Hollywood when actors used to be signed to the studios for exclusive contracts(similar to how K-pop groups have a standard 7-year contract) and the studios would control their output.
It would seem
But record labels have more control than you think
Its not at all based on the whims of the artist
If you sign to a label, you lose creative control.
Plenty of artists have wanted songs to be promoted but the label said no, in favor of another song the label thinks will be popular
And if you fight too hard, the label just puts you in the basement.
You can look up why Prince stopped using his name and performed with a word on his cheek
@@p0rnany0ne of course some contracts (especially older ones) are worse than others. But overall there’s much less creative and personal freedom in K-pop for idols than there is in the West. Most K-pop companies for instance act as both the management and the label for idols! this is not the norm in the West where the manager is separate and (usually) represents the artists’ interests, sometimes even in opposition to the label!
@@ican605 So true and nowadays artist form there own brands and fanbases through social media before getting signed to a label, and if a label is smart they won't make them change there already set brand. Like PinkPantheress or Ice spice they chose there own concept and sound and had fame through tiktok before being signed after they blew up.
8:20 "At times kpop really does feel like a machine" It's not sometimes, it's ALL THE TIME. Kpop is the most manufactured music industry in the world. It's so plastic (the type of company they enter literally decides how they dance, how they pose, how they sing from the second they get in. That's why it's so easy to tell who's jyp, yg, sm, hybe etc) yet we're still all here listening to it.
It's interesting to see the pushback on this, RUclips is flooded with big 3 comparisons and how a certain star is "SM- or YG-coded." But you can't say the truth outright 😅
I agree so much with you, everything is manufactured from the livestreams , youtube content, and “members personality” but it is just the type of industry to be that way tbh and I’m not complaining it just feels “weird” for me, for lack of a better words haha but somehow I still enjoy it even though it can get redundant sometimes.
of course, because they train people? why would trainees enter or audition for an agency if it's not to get trained, promoted and achueve their full potential?
It’s really interesting to see “cute” and “light” concepts come back to the mainstream and this time being wholly embraced by the international kpop fanbase as well. Just a few years ago every girl group was lacing up their leather combat boots and donning on fishnets and every group who didn’t was deemed as male pandering and more Korean focused. After NewJeans success I definitely am not surprised more companies are debuting groups with this cuter concept. I think the upcoming SM girl group will also follow this trend (although with a more pronounced lore because they’re an SM group of course). But one thing I’m worried about is that often times what’s paired with this concept are very young girls debuting at a higher rate than before. I still hold the belief the kpop industry isn’t a place for minors and with the documentaries such as Quiet On Set exposing the abuses that go on in Hollywood to child stars (who are placed in very similar situations like Kpop idols are), I’m worried what these young, unprotected, and indebted girls will have to experience especially if they’re debuting in less privileged spaces.
Kpop always had this cycle of concepts, the most varied era was definitely end of 2nd gen early 3rd gen as we had AOA Sistar being sexy, WJSN being both cute and whimsical, Dreamcatcher being very different, Weki Meki being teen crush (amd a trendsetter that is often ignored) BP being the beginning of the whole girl crush wave etc
After 2016 we were drowned in girl crush music and after a while the same stale empty chorus
StayC definitely showed that cute and fresh concepts NEEDED a cb
I just hope that we keep having diversified concepts and not just Y2K aesthetics and chill songs
@@ChloeBxY2K chill is a trend that will eventually die down when people get sick of it. We saw this with the 80’s synth sound popularized by Dynamite, modern girl crush started by Weki Meki, reggaeton that started with Blood Sweat and Tears, etc.
And then once enough time passes, we’ll end up circling back to certain trends.
The main one being dark vs bright, especially in boy groups. 2023 boy group debuts were very heavily dark ones until we got boynextdoor and zb1 with bright.
@@pidgeongguk8818 zb1 debuted in 2023 and I'm pretty sure boy next door did too
@@pidgeongguk8818please no it's so good and one of my favorite kpop eras ever 😭 this and the fantasy girls kpop era (wjsn, omg, loona, etc) but that's also mostly gone 😢
@@pidgeongguk8818 80s synth sound wasn't popularized by Dynamite, tho. the whole world was doing that sound, Korea isn't a different dimension they were listening to Dua Lipa and The Weeknd's 80s inspired albums before Dynamite came out. in fact, that's why bts did an ultra commercial song like Dynamite.
i wouldn't be surprised if belift was inspired by newjeans when creating illit's lineup & even the album. to me it feels very obvious, but i think they've done an ok job at differentiating the two. if anything, illit reminds me more of groups like txt, triples, loona, & gfriend. txt especially who debuted with a similar magical concept.
Belift was planning to debut a group since 2020 long before NJ debuted
@@Melia_67so did adore… make it make sense / they can still copy the concept
But did nj have webtoon like illit? No. Illit concept already planned since they planned for enhypen concept, because both group will connected. It's not even close with nj while illit have dreamy magical royal concept.
gfriend with magical concept? girl what gfriend are we talking about? surely not the one who debuted with glass bead and had "christian girl kpop" as their fingerprint for 80% of their career
They remind of txt when they were rookies and I loved txt back then (and still do) so I’m really excited for their future content.
Industry and art will always conflict in music. For me it's always difficult to decipher how much the artist is involved in their own work and what kind of art they want to show to the public. (Whether in vocals, lyrics, dance, composition, etc.).
Welcome back Taejiu.
there's no art in kpop groups. at least not in the ones from big companies, specially a monopoly like hybe.
But even through all the planning, there is something they want to communicate right?
@@ClubPuguin Yes, art is subjective, every music video/song/album has a message. In the balance of creativity, there will always be the vision of the group and the vision of the production team.
I believe that this artistic point will depend on which group/soloist can be analyzed. I like to observe if someone wrote more than once for an album, the lyrics and composition of a song shows the control the artist can have in his productions.
From memory, I have some examples, the members of Purple Kiss on the album BXX (2024), IU on the album The Winning (2024), Seori on the album Happy Face (2024), Sunmi on the album Stranger (2023), Kim Sejeong on the lyrics of album Door (2023), Lee Chan-hyuk (AKMU) on the album Error (2022), the productions of Agust D (Suga), Moonbyul in his songs and those of Mamamoo and others that must exist by the industry.
@@cWjkL8ysxOkrH66 well, TWICE wrote the songs for their recent album, and singing and dancing are art forms. So yes there’s art, but it’s much less likely the exact feelings the artist has
@@cWjkL8ysxOkrH66 did sm, jyp, yg, kakao, cj, cube, etc just stop existing that Hybe is a monopoly now? come on think
i can't necessarily blame belift for not picking jiwoo to debut bc having her & baby faced wonhee & moka in the same group would've been ??? but gosh does it still hurt knowing she might not ever get a chance to debut again :(
Oh definitely!💔 So much talent wasted.
she’s rumored to debut in tripleS but we don’t know if it’s true we only have theories 😭😭
@@user-wn1hs1pd6b but they have so many members its hard for certain ones to shine and the pay might be terrible
@@user-wn1hs1pd6bbut idk they're alr have someone named jiwoo there and they don't rly have stage names
Idk I think she fits bright concepts a lot imo, so her debuting wouldn’t have been an issue
omg I literally said while listening to the debut that this concept explains why the older members weren’t chosen, the company probably already knew the concept and picked people to fit that (which is unfortunate that super talented contestants were eliminated just because of a concept)
this is structured very very well. Literally, agree with everything you said lol. The concept being picked out before debut is so common sense so when everyone is acting brand new it was like wow you people are gullibleeeee.
Music industries have been doing this for decades. They will already have the concept of the band and they'll scout out members who fit the image. Even if you can't sing, they're looking for people with looks and aesthetics. Always been like that. The best legends in music are legends for a reason. Because those type of musicians were not only talented, but they may also have charming image/look, can dance or have some multi-talented abilities.
In response to the manufactured/rigged survival show, I wish more kpop company go with the JYP route where there's no audience participation in voting and just internal company judges that discuss openly on what they want to put on the final line up. A2K left me with a good feeling cause every step of the way I could clearly deduce what the judges were thinking when they rank the girls, and the final line up makes sense. It's just less drama all around without the viewers making a ruckus about the voting
You mean companies should be honest? You're expecting a lot.
@@babyfaceweeb8937 more reason why I like JYP in comparison to other kpop company then lmao
Moka didn't gain popularity with the judges until she did a cute concept. They completely ignored her until she performed "Tell Me". Although I don't think the final lineup was picked pre-show, they didn't give the most talented contestants (Jiwoo, Chanelle, Jeemin, etc.) a real shot even though they were the most popular contestants globally. Jiwoo and Jeemin could have definitely pulled off the cute concept, they were just never given the chance.
Honestly I find Jeemin more suitable for girl crush or badass themes. In fact, the difference between the ILLIT line up and my ideal one is that Jeemin was inside my lineup instead of Iroha. Sad about Jeemin being ousted but it’s now making sense why she was not picked, because ILLIT is more of dreamy, cute and fantasy plus youth. I am happier with the current ILLIT and with Jeemin also getting a second chance on iland 2
I am not certain about jiwoo except the fact that she and I are born in 2001, me in September and jiwoo in October. But I guess it was unlikely for Jiwoo to fit since she looks a bit too mature for ILLIT style music, but I can see her more fitting of a soloist or other girl group similar to bad boy, as far as I can remember about her feats
@@WJHallyuLover8365 i agree with jeemin suiting a girlcrush concept more but do did yunah, minju and iroha. also jiwoo is extremely versatile and in my opinion suited the more cute ligh concept even better than yunah. yunah looks older than jiwoo is most cases, i dont think not being 16 means you can fit a cute concept. look at twice.
@@wlweloise7270 i respect your opinion regardless, even though my stand is different, and yeah i still agree its a pity that Jiwoo, for whatever her strong ponts are, did not make the cut.
I admit Minju and Iroha are really versatile and can do a diverse range of concepts. I also share the concern about Yunah but it does not matter, because she can adapt well to situations that did not go her way and thats what I admire about her
I was here for runext, and I disagree with anyone bullying or harrassing the girls who made it- have a problem with the judges, have a problem with Hybe, but the girls had nothing to do with it.
That being said, the favoritsm on runext and the fact that they already knew what they wanted was always clear to me. They found any reason to shove out contestants they didnt want. They used girls like Ruka for their popularity, the used her sad story, and then they eliminated her. They said 'global girl group' but didnt give international fans any voting power in the last episode.
My greatest issue with all this is those girls who were eliminated arent dolls or toys. They were people with dreams, ambitions, some of which spent years before hand being a trainee. Why waste their time, some of them feeling like this was their last chance, why waste their time if Hybe already knew what they wanted? Like, they were people! Not dollar signs! In the case of Pride and Scum, they knew Scrum was a song that fit the final concept- anyone who got Pride was instantly disadvantaged. So what was the point in doing that? I seriously just dont get it. Why disrespect these girls time and energy? Why label girls like Jeemin #1 trainee who would have absolutely fit the concept and then just- hang her out to dry? Why have votes if only two of the members were decided by fan votes? I just- runext was a mess. I really wanna like illit, but all Im reminded of is how the others were screwed over and it just puts me in a bad mood. I wish them all the best though.
Can't say anything about the other questions, but considering Jeemin is about to compete on I-Land 2, it's pretty obvious now why they labeled her as the #1 trainee now. She's likely about to be pushed by I-Land producers for that group.
@@goldyd144 I'm rooting for her debut, but I'll guess we'll have to wait and see what happens- as true as that could be the producers could also push for the younger trainees instead. She seems to be very popular right now, but we never know.
@@minimoth You've got a point, considering what happened with Ruka. 👀
@@goldyd144 iland 2 is not under belift, its not even under hybe. it doesnt make sense that they would sell her off to another company if they liked her so much
@@peachhyoghurt It does if you consider it's to gain hype for the show. Big or mid-sized company trainees are always used to garner hype for these show regardless of whether they're affiliated directly with the competitions or not. Examples - Somi, Sakura, Yujin, Gunwook, Hui, etc.
people constantly commenting about chanelle under illits posts even six months after runext ended is so crazy like you’d think they were bullying her on the show or something😭
The yurina tease 😶😶
The Garam + Gfriend curse will haunt them for life
Yeah, it’s really disappointing
garam doesn't fit the consept bro, just like illit just iroha fit hybe vibe the other just like garam can't fit but its forced to fit
@@dlv5tbh garam visuals fits illit or newjeans more lol
I think nj and illit have different concepts. But tbh I think if new jeans WERE to release songs from their mini album, nobody would bat an eye saying they changed their concept or what not. Like in a alternate universe where super shy was recorded by illit or magnetic was b side on get up, they wouldn’t seem to out of place. Though u could say this for a ton of artists….
They also remind me a lot of a more modern wjsn & gwsn, it’s been a while since I consistently kept up with them tho
(Pleeeeaaasee tell me Im not the only one who hears it)
exactly. newjeans hasn't released songs liek this yet but at the same time the concept is very newjeans-esque. nj do experiment with genres in their songs (asap, cool with you, ditto) so a song like magnetic wouldn't be surprising coming from them
genuinely missed your commentary videos, so glad you’re back!
Honestly I feel that the type of structure that was used for the baby monster show would have made more sense for illit, since they already had people in mind in terms of how they fit the concept. They could've had the prospective lineup do the trainee evaluation style that the baby monster show used. But that's just my opinion
But yeah, it shouldn't have been surprising. The company belift already had their internationally popular group with enhypen, the logical step for them was to have one domestically popular, as well as enticing to the Japanese market.
Also yes that last part I think it's important for us as fans to find a balance with acknowledging the manufactured aspect of kpop while not spiraling into an existential crisis, because like you say there is still some good in certain aspects of kpop.
The main issue with the show was that we saw an aspect of putting a group together that was not fun to watch - extremely talented trainees not making a group after years of training simply because they don’t really fit the concept.
The kpop industry is very brutal & there are probably hundreds of trainees that missed out on huge careers because they weren’t the right height or didn’t have the same ‘vibe’ as the other group members - but i don’t want to know about it. It’s just depressing & that’s what runext was
As popular as she was, I seriously can't picture Chanelle in Illit's concept at all. Like my brain can't even imagine her performing these songs. I liked her so much, and I think she deserves a chance in the industry, but I don't think she was ever seriously considered even once by producers for this group. I think you're right, Belift had a VERY specific vision for the group and they were going to make it happen no matter what. This is why they ensured that 4 out of 6 slots would not be determined by audience voting. They didn't want to compromise their pre-planned vision for the group.
chanelle could definitely fit illit’s concept in my opinion
@@nnnn-sc2im Okay.
ngl, i kinda wanna hear more of ur thoughts on newjeans' image feeling stale as someone who's recently become interested in their creative direction. imo, this "stale" feeling might be due to the lack of music (esp. compared to other 2022 ggs like lsfm & nmixx) & the multitude of music videos.
i also think ador might wanna change their image into something more mysterious & give them concepts like eta, omg, & cool wtih you.
Min Heejin is a creep so honestly look into that before thinking that she is a genius
i think its because of how minimalist they are
you do not want that. thinds will get dark real quick
@@user-luciddream Minimalism is okay if it's done creatively. So far, I think Ador is struggling to be creative and using what worked in their past comebacks because they know the fans will eat it up.
NewJeans always bring something new to the table in every release so far, but this last album saturated a bit the UK garage-like genre, even other kpop groups explored this genre like nmixx with "passionfruit" and txt with "happily ever after".Hope Min Hee Jin have something in her bag and go experimental again, NewJeans is the group that can pull something different
New jeans have actually brought nothing new to the table. They simply took a older concept that used to be popular and brought it back but this concept was already being brought back around this time so I'll have to disagree
@@aerabyeolif we talk abt the whole music industry yes y2k got traction in the us before their debut (to the likes of flo, pink pantheress etc) but in korea they brought this concept which was a niche for kpop and made it their own
@@aerabyeolIf we're using that logic than no kpop groups has ever brought anything new to the table since they all recycle western music
@@nai110Yeah almost exactly that lmao
@@nai110that's basically that. it's just that newjeans became breathe of fresh air when everyone is doing girl crush. they didn't bring anything new, they just standout. like bts did with Boy With Luv. every bg wears harnesses and black skinny jeans when BTS came out with pink suits, pink baggy pants, and colorful hairs. it's not new, they simply standout. which is genius tbh
I come from a time when 1992/3 was the maknae. lol I'm only 30 but damn I feel old.
the gap is almost 20 years now lmaooo
Well now that illit is debuted we can say they are manufacturered but very well manufacturerd the songs are soo good especially magnetic and midnight fiction
honestly, think the concept choice was a really good idea, marketing wise. it's different enough that it isn't new jeans, but it's close enough that they could be considered to be in the same niche. by doing this, they're essentially creating competition for their own group while profiting from it. they're pratically monopolising this type of concept, while creating an illusion of variety, if they manage the group successfully.
i would have prefered variety in concepts and music, and i do think that this strategy could backfire, given how easily a concept can get oversaturated. however, if we're talking money, they did what they do best and found a way to capitalise off of what they already have.
it would be irresponsible if belift debuted a group without a plan prepared
like gp999 😭😭
@@g.ale21kep1er😢
@@g.ale21 good example
The thing about runext is that it wasn’t exactly „rigged“. they manipulated the show to the point where the girls belift wanted to debut also debuted. For example giving certain girls way more screen time than others (*cough* *cough* all the girls that ended up debuting) and the fact that they changed up rules and suddenly in the finale international votes don’t count and only the Korean votes did (eventhough they said that illit is supposed to be a global girl group). And we all know how favored p01 was and also how much screentime they gave her to gain the sympathy of Korean viewers. so it’s rigged in a way but not the way we think.
Ultimately it’s Belift’s internal show though so their talent team and managers are for sure in control of the process
yea even in the editing of the vocals they would protect the image of the girls they planned on keeping by turning up their backing vocals to hide where they were lacking but would turn down the backing vocals for the girls they wanted gone.
I feel like people forget that it is important for the music industry to be manufactured in order for the music and artists to thrive, the amount of work that goes in order to make these groups and their comebacks takes a village. So yeah, I rather things to be planned in order for them to have the best possible outcome. Despite not liking the way R U Next? presented itself and kinda tainted a bit of the group’s reputation, I can see objectively why certain decisions were made regardless of how I feel about them. Also, just because something is manufactured, that’s doesn’t mean that it’s inauthentic and I think fans forget that those two things can coexist.
its okay manufacture if good but its worst far away from NJ, the fault its who leader team this runext show
I agree with everything you said but what rubs me the wrong way is, if they already had a determined concept with certain members in mind, they shouldn’t have made it a voting show with contestants who probably weren’t gonna get picked in the first place.
@@lightblue5636 they want to build a pre-debut hype. and its effective
@benj2592 Sure its effective, but is it honest? Real? Not at all.
Production and manufacturing are two different things and you're conflating the two. Yes, it takes time producing music but the manufacturing of personas and parasocial relationships to boost a group's popularity is.... definitely a choice but not necessary to make good music or to thrive.
People also forget that they cast people that they want to eliminate in those programs. Like with lower skills to be more " rational" why someone lose and win. While real world casting is pretty even in skills, assets, and concepts and way more subjetive to the outer eye.
One where this was very visible was a2k for me. I simu watched.
I was asking myself why there wasnt a single music theather kid in Ny and La casting?
They have the skills and guts for it.
Then after vcha debuted that was clearer that they whent to the ciderella route, and if they had way more skilled people mixed with newbies the synergy wouldnt work.
Also hiring newbies, they can get lower salaries. I am very curious of when the trainees, specially in this competions, can actually get to see the debut contract with the $ included.
Only thing that will surprise me is if there are bridges in the songs. 😏
I just hope that this girls have a (much as posible) decent and drama dree debut. I'm not going to follow them closely but i hope that they'll have a good career
Damn! Right before their debut? 🫢
when Chanelle got eliminated, i kinda saw it coming since her motivation dropped and she wasnt performing her best. i know she didnt got the songs she wanted, but why would she give up so quickly of her dream just because she didnt got the song she wanted? i believe something behind scenes happened. moka debuting was very suprising to me too tbh, i LOVE moka dont get me wrong, but she was really in the background in the show someone like jeemin not debuting was weird to me but after seeing the concept i think i get why did they pick moka...
@@peachhyoghurtshe was unprofessional af.
@@peachhyoghurtI don't think chanelle got bad feedback she was exceptionally praised for her performance in attention. You have to realize these episodes were prerecorded. They started pushing her out of the favs when she show inability to conform to a given concept do to her will. These things had already happened before the video was released so once they saw her attitude they started editing earlier episodes against her to set the stage for the audience to know what was coming. From the very beginning she was high ranking/mid. But if you can't work with the companies and the producers of course you will loose favor. The attitude happened before the episode released they edited the episodes based on what happened in future missions that way they can create the narrative. Episodes are not live and I hardly think the problem is with wonhee and what not it was that she had the western mindset of choosing and getting what you want when as this video states idols are performers and they perform what the company gives without any say. Lucky are the idols that get to contribute anything to their music and image
@@Melia_67no she wasnt at all
This!!! Moka was never really highlighted until the very end of the show. Also Hyewon was doing great and then the judges started giving her lower and lower scores until she was eliminated. Ruka also never necessarily performed badly but was never really shown and then judges gave her dramatically low scores. It seems they didn't fit the image of the planned group.
Most people believe it’s because belift wanted 2 japanese members in the lineup. They originally wanted Iroha & Himena but Himena was dead last in voting every week despite efforts to push her. By the last few episodes they decided they would debut Moka instead hence why they suddenly started heavily pushing her after ignoring her for the first 8 episodes.
i would comapare illits sound to groups like gwsn, wjsn, fromis and triple s but because most kpop stans dont listen to them, the automatic comparison for anything bright is newjeans.
I've been thinking a lot about kpop as an industry since this recent Seunghan situation where SM Entertainment apparently eliminated him from RIIZE without saying a single word or giving any reasonable explanation, but kept benefiting financially from his image. It's crazy how big companies can just play with real life people like that...
I had not been giving any thought to ILLIT either, but after watching this I gave it a listen. I'm also piqued. Purple Kiss concert was great for me, one of my favorite's that I went to last year. Small venues are great.
their songs are def gonna be short lol, tho i was surprised at rescene dropping a 3 minute predebut song
Resence was debut by a company whose founder is a producer so i expect that as a producer he prioritizes music. And hes a famous producer at that, “The Muze”
Hoping their debut will be as good as Yo-yo and they will be famous
@@kidawesomeness123that’s awesome! can’t wait for more from them
@@ChloeBxsame, i have high hopes
anyone who says illit and new jeans aren’t similar in any way is purposely acting dense.
I wouldn't say that the show was completely rigged, but they clearly withheld information about how the group would be formed and that made the viewers extremely confused when in the final they said that only 2 contestants would be voted in by the public. People are just mad they spent months voting when in the end it didn't really matter and international votes only amounted to like 10% of the final votes. If they had been transparent from the beginning, I don't think the show would have been so 'controversial' because then the viewers know what to expect.
About ILLIT. Ngl, i hated the name when it was first announced, but now I find it cute. But seeing their concept, it makes me wonder why they thought Yunah was a better fit than Jeongeun? Since it's kinda cute and dreamy. And Yunah gives off a more mature vibe. From what I've seen Yunah does fit the concept, but I wonder what their thought process was.
Anyways I'm happy for these girls and can't wait to see their debut.
Yunah was a must. She was sooo popular during the show and was the trainee with the longest training period
@@g.ale21 same with jeemin tho. I'm not saying yunah is not a great addition to the group. I just wanted to know their thought process
@@sevenwnters2047 between them 2 yunah was the better option tbh. Maybe they didn't see jeemin here with this concept or image 🤔
I think because Yunah was in their ideal lineup (pre-show top 6 trainees) and Jeongeun wasn't, so at the end Yunah was a better choice to the judges. She also showed she was really versatile and very smart on how she acted on the show. Also I think the choice wasn't Yunah vs Jeongeun but Moka vs Jeongeun and Moka was a better financial decision
@@sevenwnters2047 because both Jeemin and Yunah add similar things to the group but Yunah is a better vocalist so she was the obvious choice when it came down to the both of them. She also did better on the show while Jeemin didn't meet the expectations placed on her
ILLIT will also have their own storyline that may be connected somehow to ENHYPEN and &TEAM... Their webtoon will be called "SUMMER MOON". I'm so excited for their debut later today, I love their sound and I agree, I hope it's longer than 2min30secs
Belift said it's not connected, and it will be their own lore.
@@CandyCane23049 I knew it lol
Yunah doesn't totally fit this concept either but as she's quite versatile it works. I think that would have been the case for Jeemin and Youngseo too. They were versatile. Now that we discovered their concept, I understand why Chanelle and Jiwoo were not selected. But I wonder why Jeemin, despite having first place in the last evaluation, was not selected. The same goes for Youngseo who was selected but was removed from the final line up.
Honestly, I think the concept wasn’t for her, that’s why she left
I wasn't even worried about it until it was mentioned in this video but ugh I hope the songs are close to being three minutes or longer... I want to really bask in how good this debut will be.
Also, i agree that the new jeans comparison is so shallow. The only song of theirs that I could see fitting into illit's discography from what we've heard so far is "asap."
I think the weirdest promotion for this group was the fact that they attended Paris Fashion Week. It’s just such a strange way to put them out there publicly before they even debuted. Their debut was near, yes, but it still makes me wonder why they attended such a huge event so quickly into their careers. All it does is make me hope hybe won’t over-promote them, just for them to not be as popular or successful as they were hoping. I still don’t understand to this day why SM sent Aespa to Coachella so early into their career. The crowd (at least from the videos I saw) was so dead it was hard to watch. I just don’t want the same to happen to these girls.
Edit: Maybe my choice of wording wasn’t really how I wanted it to be said (sorry about that😭 I did write this in a quick second not thinking it would gain so much attention). I think that the strategy was more interesting than anything else, and as people have said, it did gain some positive attention to the group. Obviously I’m not trying to pray on their downfall here, but it was just something related to the group I thought was strange, that’s all.
Another edit: AH OKAY so the album is out! Love it a lot, I just wish it was longer than 9 minutes😭
Acne invited them . She saw the girls on tiktok and liked the fashion style so she invited them to the show
The ceo of the fashion house said it in a interview. She like working with new artists.
I think it because hybe right are producing top groups new jeans,lesserafim,Txt,enhypen, Tws , boynextdoor all these groups are tops groups or becoming top groups these companies probably know illit is going to do well becuase hybe is producing top groups are doing so well so might as well get them before another company tried to get them as amasador
i think the promotion of paris fashion week is not weird, the fashion company they attend is known for ready to wear clothes, its not so very super luxury company, on what i think for. and people attending on fashion week is not that so much exclusive now. publicity is good before debut. thats why people have predebut things that is happening now. its not a bad promotion, is it excessive, maybe for some. cause one thing i known RU NEXT but i didnt watch it. but after seen them on fashion week, i got curios. and its also good that it is not music thing. people came there to fashion week is to see celebrities and fashions. Fashion week on my self is just one big Promotion of many people.
@@SS_2022 I don’t think the promotion was bad at all, I mean clearly it brought in an audience of some sort, but I just feel it is a weird publicity stunt that’s all. It’s different from the pre-debut stuff that a lot of other groups have done or are doing and I just thought I’d point it out
@@nicoleloss7987 Ah okay that makes a lot of sense cause I was really confused when I saw them there😭
unpopular opinion, but considering that Wonhee had only been training for maybe a month before the show…she actually was pretty good. her vocal tone is naturally very pretty and she kept up with the dances just fine. her first time being on stage ever was on this show, so yes she had stage presence issues, but so would anyone else in that position.
i like wonhee but she kinda sounds flat
She sounds so flat no shade
@@winniejung I thought i was tripping.
i feel really bad for wonhee, the company could've just waited a bit until she was trained better and then showcased her. the only reason she got 1st is because of her visuals and it's a little sad
I agree. She did great
Make sense if they akready choose the group concept before survival show started.Knowing there's 2 survival show under Hybe at that time (be lift + hybe, hybe×geffen) like katseye more likely have mature,sexy concept and its not even surprising illit chose the different concept.
Excellent insight, thanks for making this video! I too acknowledge that most of the time when Idols are "pretending" to be your bestfriend is a little sucky and them feeding on parasocial relationships are kinda manipulative so that is what I hate about kpop cause most of us don't know any better and can get stuck in these rabbit hole thinking we mean more than just a fan to them.
However, as long as we're aware of the boundaries and stuff and enjoy them as excellent performer and understand that they're not goddess and there are actually a whole lot of people who contribute to making their music (like literally most of the gg i assume can't use ableton or know what midi is, and most can't even write a song) we should be a-okay.
Nice! I also saw Pixy live last December
I'm here from the future, unfortunately all the songs are really short-
The fact that 4/6 members were agency picks should tell you already that they selected the girls who fit the predetermined concept 🤷♂️
In my opinion, it would've been best to debut the group without doing a survival show, or at least acknowledge that the audience has almost no power to choose who to debut. It honestly feels like an ageism problem, since all the girls are so young and most of the best trainees were on the older side, which I'm guessing they assumed wouldn't match their preferred concept. That's just my stance, though.
I'm rooting for the girls, but it's not looking super good in terms of their general audience reputation. On top of losing their most popular member, the rigging of the show, little to no engagement since the line-up announcement, tons of bitter hate towards those who debuted because their favs didn't, and the "copying" NewJeans drama, it's looking pretty bad ngl. I think their music will help them and their concept, but I'm just going to wait and see what'll happen in the future.
I love their music right now, so I hope these girls will grow big, especially with their target audience, which seems to be mainly Korea and Japan as of now.
This videos is spot on. And thats why it shouldnt be allowed to debut underage idols (specially girls). Theyre way too young to face becoming a disposable product.
I feel like manufactured as a word has a lot of baggage in the music industry that makes it not the best word to be used. I think manufactured is often used to contrast with natural things, but in pop it's all an output intentionally made by people. I feel like produced is a better term. It evokes film production where the stories are acted out but the creation on all levels (writing, directing, editing, sound, acting) is recognized as art. I think the way people interact with film is much healthier and interesting than how people interact with Kpop and I'd like to see an attitude shift within the community in that direction.
Kpop is about the least natural thing especially music wise. Which is why I use the word "manufactured" because everything from the styling, to the concepts, to the promotions are intentional.
@@Taejiu Every artist is intentional about their styling, concepts, and promotions though. I think the difference is that Kpop isn't a product of a singular artistic vision in the way that a Taylor Swift album is for example, not that Taylor Swift albums aren't intentionally made. No music is natural, it's human-made.
@@bopete3204it may be more about who is controlling all this.
In kpop, it’s not the performers.
In the music industry, real artists fight for the ability to control their “brand”
In kpop, people are rarely fighting to have any creative control, especially teenagers
They are content to just do what they are told.
@@bopete3204When you put it that way I do agree in the sense that basically all music in manufactured in some way. I think ILLIT's debut EP is a great example of what I'm trying to convey with this message, that EP is wholeheartedly made for social media, and to be consumed on platforms like Instagram reels or TikTok, the average length of the songs is less than 2:30. The tiktokification of music is a whole different video, but the music we see in Kpop (specifically recently) doesn't have the shade of authentic artistry that I've come to expect with music. Less artists work on "their" own music, and when the companies are already making decisions on the concept, styling, line distribution, and genre of a release before the group is even formed? It feels more like a factory rather than a craft.
@@bopete3204just being human made doesn’t make an artist manufactured. the key difference is if their image or sound dictated by a team , most likely using an algorithm to decide what will be most popular and successful. Taylor swift has shown to be pretty in control of her artistry.
i wouldn't call the show rigged but i would call it bias 1000000%. for example Chanelle in the eleven team got judged so hard for her vocals and called off key when she was singing perfectly etc. it was as though they tried to gaslight us into things that were blatantly false, like that Jiwoo was "too old" or that Chanelle couldn't sing.
As someone who watched R U Next, illit's concept is frustrating because the show didnt focus on this type of concept, if anything there felt like more fierce stages. Iroha in particular really surprised me with her image as she became known for her fiercer stage presence. If the show had been clear that they were looking to form a group with an innocent concept they shouldve led with that from the beginning and evaluated trainees by that standard, I think thats why people are feeling annoyed right now.
i have absolutely no problem with companies having a prepared concept for a group before doing a show to form it. however, why making contestants do concept battles and stuff if the concept is decided already? and if you want to test members by creating a show but already have a specific concept chosen you don’t do voting. it’s obvious they chose the members by themselves and there wouldn’t be anything wrong with it if they didn’t make us and the contestants think that the votes count. look at baby monster’s show. there weren’t fans voting but so many people watched it either way.
Ngl I'm a bit confused what you will call manufacturers but excited nevertheless!
Waiting for KATSEYE 🎉🎉
magnetic is 2:40, confirmed
Thr new jeans formula is there
From
1.music construction you can hear the influences the way the arrangements are very similarly
2. Styling design babygirl for illit and i guess y2k ish for new jeans what makes it feel the same is the girls have body figures and features along with pretty much the same hair design as new jeans
3. You can tell the same they have the same choreographer thatd doing both . their formations and grtting into those formations are the same along with center moments the burst of cute face and hand gesture moments that each are given is the same.
4. And the videography is the same same filters difference concepts tru but how some moments are framed you can see the similarities
All in all these debuts to me dont seem different the line ups are put together and boom 3 minths later we have a mini album with 15 songs, 7 music videos, and pre shot devut stages etc not alot of time to think outside the boxes 😂 Its like saying how SM use the same sets for music videos thst we call out each big company have something they do thats so repeative jyp is the damn music 😂
My jaw dropped at 2:02 what do you mean someone a decade younger than me is debuting????? The oldest member of UNIS is my age and from my perspective it must be so strange for her to be that much older than not only the youngest but the other members as well. I mean the second oldest member is still 6 years younger than her.😭
That's why I'm thinking too LMAO, but then I saw their debut earlier, surprisingly she fits the group concept. I thought it was gonna be another Yunah situation but girl I'm so wrong. Anyways I stan UNIS and ILLIT but I'm kinda disappointed of ILLIT's debut, it seems that I overhyped my expectation just because it's from HYBE I guess.
THEIR DEBUT IS IN 2 HOURS!!!
This concept gives more loona than new jeans
I’m actually excited for the new music
Wow what an awesome Video! You just got a new subscriber. The things you talked about where very mature, neutral and reflective i really like that. I also discovered Illit recently and i didnt knew about their backround but i really enjoy their ep.
I think Hybe was really just look at their remaining trainees to make a bright cheerleader type group with Wonhee as center. Them finding her somewhere started this whole process. They were only interested in the ones who fit her vibe which was why Chanelle, having realized this mid-show threw a fit when she was in the same group with Wonhee. This show's only weird thing is that it became clear to everyone in the middle of the show that they were better off with a completely different group/concept without Wonhee but it was either too late or something else was involved.
I doubt they wanted Wonhee in the lineup at the start, her popularity was unexpected by Hybe. To me she was added as a filler for the survival because they needed 22 girls (like Iris, Ena, Seoyeon etc) but her and Youngseo replaced Jiwoo and Jeemin because of their popularity. Also because this show was supposed to air last year, and Wonhee wasn' even part of the company, so I think the group was supposed to revolve around Jeemin at first (with her being the 1º trainee).
@@Hooolltieri agree 100% you explain so well
Ill-It has a lot of lofi sounds in their music, while NewJeans has more soft R&B in their music. In terms of styling, Ill-It have a style that NewJeans wouldn't wear (which is a lot of bright, rainbow, and pastel colors) since they wear a lot of baggy clothings and dark colors in their music.
Also, NewJeans has a lot of inspiration from Western magical girl animes (their last single was a collaboration with PowerPuff Girls), while Ill-It took a lot of inspirations from Japanese Magical girl animes. Their staging reminds me of Aikatsu a lot.
Rate ILLIT as a group name down below
Group name is atrocious but the logo outcome is genuinely great!
I like it bc when you said it out loud sounds like "Eyelid" 07/10
4/10 it just sounds a bit weird
4/10 of it’s pronounced eyelet
1/10 of it’s pronounced ill-it loll
i quite literally struggled to remember what the name was, i used to keep forgetting
I’m happy for the illit girls, they seem like their concept fitting them to a T is going to be a big advantage for them, korean fans seem to like them and int fans are king of switching on them since the music sounds pretty Damn good.
But i’m still so sad for Chanelle and Jiwoo. From almost the beginning, I king of knew that hybe would do wathever It takes to not debut them. They kind of did the Same thing on Iland with hanbin ( the difference with r u next is that most of the members who debuted, if not all, were actually the most talented/had extreme potential, and were the most popular), and It was more and more obvious to me that the minute they had the opportunity to kick them out of the show they would.
To me, hybe’s mistake was to make a survival show. We’ve seen It with new jeans and Lesserafim, they didn’t do a survival show for them and they ended up being some of the most popular 4th gen groups in record time. Had we not seen the processus to create the group and all these other wonderful (and let’s be honest, more talented) trainees not make It and instead had our first introduction to them be the group already formed, then so much hate could have been avoided.
Also the way Chanelle was treated on this show, I have to point out, was just down right disgusting and made me lose pretty much any little of the respect I had for that Damn company, which wasn’t a lot to begin with.
I love their sound, i will definitely check out their debut!
I really think we should talk about this topic more. I know it can ruin people's perception of their idol a little, but it is part of learning how the world works. Nothing is ever as it seems in the KPop/music industry. The fact that Kpop has gone global means that there are a lot of young fans being introduced into this perfected concept and strategies. They fall victim to it. As 12 year kpop-fan who is 24 y/o, I wish I saw younger kpop fans talk about this more often. I was there once, and it did ruin me. You are just so susceptible at a young age and I think videos like these help to minimise that effect just a bit.
I was a bit confused when you say "we never really talk about this" because this used to be a basic fact about kpop up to like.. early gen 4. Everyone knew it was made and processed. Everything is one big show and performance, interviews included etc. So perhaps this videos is aimed at the newer kpop fans then? I mean they should know too if they don't yet. It's better to know what you're getting into before you get parasocially sucked in that is maybe not what it seems like at all if you look back later.
Newer stans these days are obsessed with calling their biases “self-made” and “organic” which is everything kpop is not.
Good video. This is why I prefer to follow groups that have been together for a few years when the members start to have more influence on the product (in most cases). Definitely in the beginning, it is all formulaic to garner as much attention as possible.
ANYWAY STREAM ILLIT'S MV TODAY 💗
ILLIT's album is roughly under 10 minutes which really shocked me because wtf 🤨. i honestly wanted to check it out because magnetic is such an amazing hypnotic song. maybe i'll still check it out.
Tbh i can see why people are surprised if they are just getting into kpop with new jeans or illit. Cause this group have this concept of something more raw and personal and casual: with the visuals the school uniforms and the vocals it really feels like a girl friend group that just happens to sing. And it's propously crafted to feel like that so I can see why someone without prior knowledge would be surprised
For those who did watch the show. Channel did not made up to the top because of the attitude she shows when she was stressed or dissatisfied and Jeemin sincerely I don’t know but right she is in a group called 2 lland (I think )
OMG This is my first time hearing someone talk about Pixy and Purple Kiss's concerts! You are so lucky to meet them in person OMG 😭They are so underrated (in my opinion!)
Illit was originally 6 members. But one girl left.
Who left?
@@rvdio_ it was youngseo who left, still confused abt it tho cus she was one of the more popular and loved members
@@imforrealsoamazinglikeitscrazy thank you!
I showed ILL IT to my friend like 2 weeks ago and she immediately exclaimed "New Jeans 2.0?!!" lmao
In the case of rigging, ILL IT definitely is a heavily rigged group. Imagine following the show for a couple of weeks, voting for your favorite candidates and hoping for them to debut then suddenly at the last episode, HYBE drops the ball on you and state that 4 of the supposed 6 debuting members will be handpicked by the judges/PD? If that isn't rigging, idk what else to categorize it. Well at least they were honest that they gave zero sh0ts about the fans voting on the show.
No. Hybe clearly stated from the beginning how the show worked. They clearly explained voting. Plus hybe hired mushrooms company and jtbc to ran the show.
Only one judge was from hybe the rest were from different companies.
Mr. Hitman bang didn't even work on the show.
Illit concept and music are completely different from Newjeans.
Originally illit was to be formed on iland like enhypen. But because of the pandemic and hybe ending their contract with mnet for iland .
Exactly considering how manipulated international audience it's difficult for me to stan illit. Especially how they let talented trainee hardwork and potential go to waste to favour and debut certain trainee. It would be another hybe group where the live vocals would be an issue.
@@joonobug They just released their debut MV right now and it's really good. What I'm worried about now is that since Magnetic is such a bop, it may have a chance at winning in a music show. Then the girls will be forced to do an encore... I shudder at the thought.
@@bayekofsiwa5847 omfg 💀
imo yunah doesn't fit in with this group bc she has a more fierce/sharp look compared to the other members. don't get me wrong she's my fav in the group and she was my #1 pick in R U Next, but she would've suited a group with a more strong/mature concept. i would've loved to see her eat up a concept like when she sang Bad Girl, Good Girl again
I agree tbh
The album is out and I love the sort of retro anime magical girl lofi city pop vibe they have but. Why. Are the songs so short ? Please just make 4 min songs again. Or even 3min, but please make songs longer than just a teaser.
most songs are b3tween 2:30 - 3-20 4 mintue songs were never super common. but yes the songs were so short girl like frfr
Firstly, as an ult illit fan I just want to come here and say how thankful I am you did not bash the group. I think all your opinions are very valid and they have some good reason behind them. I’m just over the moon thankful that you did not call them “newjeans copies” or a “rigged lineup” like almost any other k RUclipsr I have seen. I really enjoy your content and your videos are so refreshing to see on this platform as you really look at things in a different perspective from other people I have seen. The illit fandom community says thank you.
For everyone comparing them to Newjeans… yall suck for bullying these young girls 😭. Lets just leave it at that.
Illit and NJ have completely different concepts and music.
Illit was originally going to be formed on iland like enhypen. But because of the pandemic and hybe ending the contract with mnet for iland.
Hybe hired jtbc and mushrooms company to do the show
Tbh as a bunnie it's not even bunnies saying it toxic bunnies yes but most Bunnies I know are excited for their debut they even defended I'LL-IT from antifans now bunnies are again the bad guys. Like it all our fault now when it was probably some random person that said it just to hate on the group. But yh hope the have a successful debut in 15 mins exactly 🎉
@@nicoleloss7987 Nope they don't have different concept, Illit - magnetic the sounds like Newjeans asap etc, the outfit look like mix Cool with you concept and Attention and i say that after watching the mv of illit
@newjeansfan238 of course as a nj fan you'll say that. Just coz they're wearing bright clothes and their concept is bright and they're of similar age. Asap and magnetic are of different genres and it don't even sound the same.
@@okakaaa96 lol even non-fan of newjeans say it! And i saw the mv and doesn't say that before watching the mv! Just few people doesn't want to admit the similarity when there is lol
I remember watching the runext finale and being shocked by the lineup since it seemed to come out of left field in terms of which members were chosen (like the trainee that only trained for 2 months and it showed was chosen over the most experienced trainee, belift’s girl ace, and the girl that won every single round) but as soon as I saw the concept they decided to go for, I immediately understood that the general lineup was planned from day 1 since the fan-picked lineup, specifically the international fans, would have looked so out of place dancing to magnetic with the dreamy, starry baby blue vibes illit gives
ik there's nothing to do now other than watch how their career plays out but I do still feel like the way hybe went about everything runext related could have been handled so much better in so many aspects
Honestly I don’t understand why they had a voting system in the first place. They should’ve done something like a JYP survival show, like Niziu or A2K. Why make a show were I could vote for my favorites the whole time only to throw it away last minute. Honesty this is the first time a survival show has made me so angry. I feel like all my votes were for nothing.
i think my biggest problem is the styling. while i agree that the concept and sound between newjeans and illit are different... non of illits outfits seem new. illit just looks so plain, and not in a refreshing cute way but in a boring way.
I hope they revisit styling
I don't think I'm a fan of newjeans but I really like their music to some extend. With Lesserafim and now illit, they sound so forgettable. Maybe it's just me but illit's debut is so meh that I just watch the MV and can't remember one single thing about the song and the video. With newjeans, I know how much of a genius Min Heejin is to curate a group so profound that can give teens under the age of 16 nostalgic feeling through their music, reaching out to producers with no history for kpop to create a sound like 'super shy' to last in your head for so long, not to get started on 'Ditto".
I won't be too harsh for illit's line up, I couldn't care less, didn't watch the show. However, these girls won't be singing like actual singers anytime soon and I got that from the genre of their songs. I will say this; whoever is in charge of their career is not doing so hot. Take notes from Min Heejin and think outside of the box so your debut project won't last only for that three minutes the song runs for.
First of all we know shit abt them I mean they just debuted and they already are doing some shits to get more popularity, and stuff but like don’t expect me to be their fan and Stan them just from hearing their one song? Hell nah, same way I listen kiss so life but I just can’t be someone’s fan from few songs… I’ll listen their music and then I’ll decide
Illit image and sound are similar to lovelyz
Something that has been bothering me for a while is that Kpop companies don't want to debut trainees with mature vibes into cute / soft concept groups but somehow they don't mind it the other way around?
Its been the other way around many times and its not all kpop companies
The sheer amount of payola the playlisting the ADS the autoplay the budget i winder who's money hybe is using?
Honestly, their debut song is a bop for me. Didn't like it at first but it grew on me.
Firtst time that I saw the mnusic video, I immediately thought this is why the front runner or best trainees didn't make it. I do believe that the concept was already determined before the finals. That is why the members were chosen how they were chosen. If you know what I mean.
I also believe that the reason the other girl left is because she learned about the concept of the group and was not here for it. If you watched the show, it's clear that she was meant to be in a group that has a girl crush concept. Also, it's obvious that that is the vibe that she wants. Taking into consideration that she is a big fan of 2ne1.
So it all make sense that Jiwoo was not picked for this group. Let's not forget, he age is already considered old in the kpop industry. So if she was picked for this group and this is the concept. It will not be suitable for her.
I also think that Yuna is not for this concept. Uhm! But it's somehow suitable for her compared to Jiwoo. Or was I jst brainwashed to think it suits her since I like the song now. She was also more of a girl crush concept. Well that's what I think watching the show.
Anyways, I will still listen to the song coz I like it. I will still watch their live performances. But I don't consider myself a fan. Well, I like two of the members since I was rooting for them during the show. But it's not enough to pull me to become a fan yet since I was not really happy when the line up was announced during the finals. But yeah, it was all planned. I strongly believe that.
It was so obvious when the judge purposely gave Chanelle a low mark to eliminate her 💀
As an olde kpop fan. These idols are still very young. I remember back in 2018 the average debut age was about 21 for idols. Which seems like a far cry from probably the 16 or 17 now.
It’s just weird how kpop fans act like social justice warriors when it only comes to their group or preferred company, even though companies don’t deserve defence especially not multi billion dollar companies that are still exploiting underaged workers.
Seriously. It seems like Hybe fans or bts fans since most of them are Hybe stans wanna defend Hybe with their lives for some reason. Like wow, Hybe pays their idols a 50/50 split that’s cool. They still have insane diets. They still are debuting young idols, and imo they are the reason idols are debuting younger and younger. You look at sm, yg, jyp. They had groups that would debut a young idol. But it’s not like they were tryna debut a whole group of high schoolers. It was a Taemin, a yeri, a sehun, and Tzuyu. It wasn’t everybody just grated high school or are still in school.
And using one idol in one group as a defence to allow Hybe to debut minors in all their groups is such a weak piece of argument.
Oh, jungkook, 1/7 Debuted as a minor.
Tzuyu, 1/9. Sehun 1/12.
This must mean 4/5 is good, 3/5 is good. Like nah. That is still weird shit like from before. It doesn’t matter that they are from Hybe and you make up that they aren’t like other companies. Making them a “I’m not like other girls” as a company is crazy.
And I mean I’ll always fight this. Idk why kpop fans normalized it. Especially international fans. It seems like with illit there was a massive wave of people defending Hybe for debuting minors. It’s so weird. I swear they would’ve been a majority of fans saying it was weird only 4 years ago.
Anyways, kpop is getting worse imo. Fans are acting like fans wars were bad 7,10,15 years ago. But it has become way worse, way more toxic nowadays.
Who would’ve thought the fans that wanna stream songs nonstop for 24 hours or for a week nonstop would be toxic fans.
I've been following your videos here and there since the rebranding of Chaewon video, and I really enjoyed it. I've watched your Midas Touch video too! Keep going man, your content is really entertaining.
Can't wait to see what you're coming up with next!
All I wanna say is that Wonhee never had to worry, even if she was untalented, she would’ve made it. 100% without a doubt.
Lol not true i doubt she would have debuted if she couldn't sing at least. Knetz are visual lovers and it certainly made her popular and votes is what made her debut but even knetz can't stand someone tonedeaf
@@ni-kingtaehyunjkyoongs2758 I’m pretty sure hybe would let her at least sing a few lines, a great example is Le sserafim’s Sakura.
@@cherrybear8288sakura is not a good example as she had a huge fanbase before hybe and before kpop. No one cares since she has measurable sucess from being idol for like decade she is money. Kazuha is a better example but she is japanese(not as concerning to knetz) and they were literally form in a rush lesserafim would have taken anyone as long as the member was pretty could dance trainable and could debut the day after(being anither japanese member might have been an influence). Those 2 still get a lot of h4te for their vocals.
Wonhee’s performance skills improved so much in so little time. Either the hybe scouts saw something we didnt and knew she would pull through or the trainers and staff worked a miracle and skyrocketed her over all performing skills.
this show actually *was* rigged though. from the first episode where they had a high - mid - low rank where only one member from each group would go into specific ranks. a system that punished the well rounded groups and favoured the more amateur groups.
they included international voters, who disproportionately made up the majority of votes for contestants like son jiwoo and chanelle moon, and they realised the way to get the undesirable - for their race, for their age, etc - trainees to rank low was to only accept korean votes for the final vote.
during the last day, they released the interim vote with international voters and jiwoo placed 4th. for the most part, all of the talented high ranking trainees were at the top. they posted wonhee's rank before the interim vote order was revealed at 9th place, with the only trainee below her being himena... i genuinely think this was to make her fans panic and make sure to vote for her, because she ended up getting 3.3 million votes, which is wholly inconsistent with her votes throughout the show. i understand there were more eyes on the final and views were a bit higher, but that felt entirely manipulated by HYBE. not to mention the nonsense about P01 and P02 being decided by votes and the other 4 spots being producer picks.
that being said, i can't be mad at a 15 year old who trained for a month getting fame and success handed to her. i like their music and they're decent performers. its a vocally weak group but standards for kpop are low anyways. ironically my favourite is wonhee (and also yunah). i hope they do well 👍
3:06 I sincerely don't agree with the people saying it was rigged!! The reason why is because 4/6 members would've made it anyways based on votes, and only 2 of those 4 were producer pics. So, in reality the "final lineup" only has 2 producer picks. For context the final lineup included jeemin and jeongeun, so that would've meant no yunah and Moka. iroha and Wonhee (which a bunch of ppl didn't want in the group) were in the top 6 so they would've ended up in it anyways.
Well no it’s definitely rigged and imma tell you multiple reason :
- Yuisa getting eliminated first after having no screentime while Iris wanted to go home : Unfair
- Wonhee having the most point in the hip-hop mission bc judges found her a cute, which part ok hip-hop involves cuteness ?
- The switch up on chanelle : Them trying to criticize her vocal and trying to turn her a bad person (when they showed her yelling at wonhee)
- A trainee who almost debuted, so ready to debut, getting eliminated before girls who haven’t experienced a single monthly evaluation
- Chanelle being in the top 6 most voted and got eliminated minutes after
- Saying it’s a global group, but i-fans can’t vote for the final its knetz
- Out of 6 only 2 girls are picked by votes
- Wonhee barely being in the top6 but all of sudden she’s ranked 1st, not minju neither youngseo who were mostly first (and do not tell me its knetz cause knetz fav was jeongeun she was 1st in korea for the 1 pick voting)
- Jeongeun finally made it to the top6 with jeemin and got kicked out
Hybe just should never make a survival and just introduce the girls cause now they getting hate and ppl prefer the eliminated girls than the lineup, which is understandable
If it wasnt rigged then why does everyone and their grandmother know that Wonhee gonna debut from the moment she joined the show? Girl had nothing to show and still ranked first mims
@@itsmeann63 Because her pre-show pictures went crazy viral ?? The show hadn't even started and everyone was sure she was gonna make it because Koreans loved her visuals and it turned out she was a good singer for a new trainee. That's just how things work
@@itsmeann63 because she was one of the most popular trainees in korea. That's why people knew she would debut. You fail to understand that popular trianees don't get rigged in (only unpopular but talented trainees get rigged in), there's no need since their votes are carrying them. Wonhee always ranked pretty low at the start by the judges points and was carried by her votes to be in the top6. It was obvious someone with so much domestic support would debut.
@@wakasa._.1over By the time it aired what Iris said, Yuisa was already going to be eliminated. Also how did they try to make Chanelle look like a bad person when they only added what she said to the episode? What were they supposed to do, ignore it and edit it out? They included it because it happened on the show.
Jeoungeun wasn't the most popular in Korea, Minju constantly ranked 1st. The first place was always going to be Minju/Youngseo/Wonhee since those three were the most popular over there. Like the final lineup or not, there wasn't rigging of any votes involved. Why would they need to do that, when Wonhee already had a lot of voters on her own? She ranked first in the 1pick and the 2pick.
My guess is that HYBE definitely had the concept in mind before the show and the purpose of the show was 1) to build the fanbase for the group before the group debuted and 2) to see which girls that fit their concept were most liked and 3) to build fanbases for talents that will be in future groups.
Other than fans being (temporarily) upset when their favorite girl doesn't make the group, this strategy really has few downsides, so of course they'd make a whole show when they can afford to.
It's also important to note that RU Next? was set up differently than say, an Mnet survival show, since they were all HYBE trainees in the first place, and there were just straight-up members chosen by the judges. For that reason, I think you'd be only fooling yourself to not acknowledge how manufactured this group was.
AND that doesn't make them bad!! I like their music a lot so far.
To me it's pretty obvious that an in-company survival show would already have a concept in mind. But it would have been so much more interesting if RUNext had stated the concept they were going for from the start so people would have voted with that in mind
I have never seen a survival show do that. I- land didn't do that with ENHYPEN, so people didn't know they would have vampire lore.
@@CandyCane23049 Babymonster, twice or skz formation show seemed to have a concept already in mind for the group. But maybe that's just my impression