I got a new chain for mine, had just as much slack as the one with 250,000 miles. Learning is expensive. But that's why I dig this channel. No telling how much money ol Richard has saved people knowing beats wonder and guessing Big time!
Richard, you are my hero. People like you, David Freiburger, Steve Dulcich and Steve Brule get to do all the stuff most gearheads only dream of. Thank you for sharing videos like these and including people like me deeper into this hobby and the cool "sciency"/ engineering aspects of cars and engines that we are not able to do on our own.
I'm old school and just like Richard I double roller'd everything including my first few LS engines but it always took extra work and was a pain to go double roller. THEN I noticed that people a lot smarter than me (including all of the popular LS engine builders) were using single roller on LS with no problems so I started using single roller confidently with no issues. I have taken apart a few double roller LS engines to find that the chain had been rubbing.
YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON!!!THE! Only person I have ever heard mention honing the balancer on an older engine! I started doing that at the turn of the century when I started building circle track engines.
there is a sizable difference in the ID dimension between stock and after market dampers/balancers as well as between factory and after market cranks. most damper manufacturers (like ATI) undersize them so they need to be honed to fit properly (especially on a press-fit application like the LS.
I used a comp cams double roller on my 99 C5 when I did my cam swap. It came with spacers for the oil pump, had to get some low profile oil pump bolts to clear the timing cover. The oil pump pickup tube went on with no problem because the spacers are not that thick.
Some “Slop” is essential for the reliability of the chain. The block expands approximately 8 thou at full operating temp, if you take all the slop out of the chain when cold, you stress the chain when it’s hot
That’s the main reason why the chain stretches… keep in mind the chain also expands with heat. Almost even with the aluminum block because the timing chain is experiencing friction opening and closing valves increasing the chain temperature higher than the aluminum block.
I’m using a comp cams one it’s all fancy it’s adjustable billet double roller I wanna say it’s + - 6 i also used the comp cam one piece timing cover for the double roller so I didn’t have to grind anything at all the chain is very tight you have to work that on the cam you hold it up get one bolt and turn it a little to get the other two there is no play in my timing chain and it gets rid of chain slap works great the chain kit didn’t cost that much order the timing it and cover from my favorite store summit racing
I have a 2002 Avalanche with a 5.3L that I bought new, put a Whipple AXO SC system in it in 2004, and put 106K miles on it in 17 years. I used all synthetic oil, dual remote engine oil filters, engine and trans oil coolers, changed all the oil and filters a lot whether it needed it or not. The miles were 80% highway cruising (highway axle gear in the truck) some towing and hauling, no racing or off road, the engine never saw over 5000 rpm, and hi revs only occasionally when passing. Basically this engine was over-maintained and never beat, abused or run hard. This engine was still running well when I recently took it apart for a top end rebuild, and I found the OEM timing chain was stretched horribly loose. The 100% bone stock cam and valve train was all in good shape, and the timing chain was so loose it was ready to jump a tooth. No doubt this was hurting throttle response and performance, as well as getting ready to strand me at any moment. I replaced the timing set with a race grade double roller recommended by a local builder; they told me this timing set will support 2000 hp. My engine will barely make 400 hp, but I know from experience that the timing chain will stretch over time even on a low hp engine that was not run hard. That OEM chain was no doubt already stretched unacceptably bad at 50K miles. I want another 100K out of this engine so I went with the overkill timing set. I want to be sure after another 50 or 60K miles that the chain is not even close to getting ready to jump a tooth on me. It required the oil pump to be spaced and the timing cover to be clearanced, so I did all that. Also I used a stock replacement oil pump, no hi volume or hi pressure pump for me. I already know from experience that will put a lot of oil up around the valves and cause excess oil consumption. My brother has a 700hp LSA in his 86 SS Monte, it has a HV oil pump, and he's getting a lot of oil in the PCV. He has a catch can on it and it's catching a lot of oil. With a stock grade oil pump on my engine I have 60 psi cold (55 degree F ambient) with 30wt oil at 500 rpm idle (I have a stock idle cam in it). At full operating temperature there is 52 psi at 500 rpm idle and it increases to above 75 psi when revved to 4000 rpm. This is all the oil pressure the engine needs, more is not better.
Onemoremisfit Hello Question I'm working on 02 Lm7 5.3 bored. 020, Eldgen stage 2 sloppy Cam, 706 heads .660 lift springs, with LSA supercharger. Since your brother has a lot of oil consumption with his LSA, you would recommend I use the standard oil pump instead of the high volume oil pump? I also have dual oil catch cans not installed yet. The motor will be going in a 1984 Chevy Caprice coupe.
@@pucegtr Hello. I would not be the guy to definitively answer that for you because I'm just a DIY hack and I'm not a professional engine builder. All I have is an opinion really, based on some level of experience. However there is some common knowledge out there. One rule of thumb is as long as you have a minimum oil pressure of 10 psi per 1000 rpm, i.e. 60 psi at 6000 rpm, you are OK. From what I understand about HV and HP oil pumps, they are intended for bottom ends that have been built with greater than stock bearing clearances, those clearances being required for severe and sustained high rpm duty such as racing. And then when you use that HV or HP pump to satisfy those feeding those extra clearances, there may be some trade offs you have to live with. I have used HV pumps on mild street engines in the past and found from my own experience that it was a bad idea that caused high oil consumption. Basically my opinion is that any bottom end with stock bearing clearances in a street duty engine should be OK with a stock oil pump. But if you are concerned because the engine will be high HP and you want a little insurance at the bottom end from a higher output oil pump, that is understandable, but then obviously you have to be willing to accept the trade off of more oil at the top end and the oil consumption that might cause. There are possible ways to restrict oil flow to the top end to mitigate oil consumption with high output oil pumps, but you would have to talk to a pro engine builder about this. In the case of my brother's car, I have an opinion, and that opinion is I would have probably went with a stock oil pump since it is a street car and as far as I know the bottom end has stock clearances. And if I had my heart set on a HV oil pump, then I would have consulted a builder as to the possibility of installing oil restriction to the top end while the block was still bare. Once you put it together you have to live with the results. My brother's engine is safe on the bottom end with the extra oil pressure. It's a stroker with over 400 cid, so maybe that extra oil pressure is good insurance, but he has to live with some oil in the catch can. Aside from that little problem his build turned out great and the engine runs strong. Good luck with your build.
@@onemoremisfit 1st off thank you for your opinion and your info I appreciate it truly!!! Anymore knowledge I can get on anything whether I knew it or not is always helpful in my opinion!! I've built sbc motors 355 and 383's before this is my 1st LS build with a superchargercharger.. I'm in the process of putting my motor bak together ,I just got it back from the machine shop the other day. All the bearing clearances were within factory spec, I'm at the point right now to install the oil pump and frt. tmming cover. I have the Melling HV oil pump right now.. Thanks again for all your help and info
My new LS7 570HP crate motor had a verry sloppy stretched out chain with only 1,800 miles on it, vid on my channel, went with a Comp true double roller chain, no slop, and yes, a lot of work to clearance the cover, and the wet sump LS7 uses the LS3 chain setup. New sub, great channel!
If you have ever went fishing for roller bearings after a stock rocker departed this world you know the captured bearing trunnion upgrade is cheap insurance imo.
Smokey Yunick preferred gears(angle cut) or belts. Smokey did an experiment with a clear plastic chain cover. He said , at speed, the chain looked like a possessed snake. He couldn't imagine that any good for timing control. Hence the change to belts or gear sets. That is why many long distance racers are using belts or gears. Chains are cheaper and that is why they are used, but as cheap chains go bad at less than 200,000 miles, and as it will be close to a $1000 touch to replace a chain while in your vehicle, I prefer to spend the extra bucks. Especially if you plan to use the engine for many miles
I replaced lots of them plastic gears back in the day.. And seen them eat engine up.. I remember a 307 or 350 so bad you could turn crank a 1/4 turn before the rotor would turn.
I use BIG single roller chains on my small blocks anymore. Figure if the ls little bike chain holds up to the springs pressures of the modern cams so I figure my big single roller and steel gears are good to go
For your question Richard the ls race builds I know of and my own all single roller. To me I see it as just the time to “upgrade” to a new one on freshen, or my own just a c5r chain with zr1 cam sprocket and some fancy arp bolts i over torqued I mean carefully torqued. To degree my cam, I found tdc with a cheap traveler gauge (after dot to dot), then rotated my cam sprocket “slack” all the way advanced, and blasted those bolts with some red loctite. I have a nice 4340 crank and I just put oem crank sprocket too. GM engineers shit on the aftermarket 9/10 times
I have used several Comp double rollers and the biggest reason is exactly what you mentioned. They are tight, and I have the loose feel of all the single and stock replacement stuff that I have had experience with. To me loose screams value timing inaccuracy.
I have ran Erson, Milodon and Pete Jackson gear drives all noisy! BBC and SBC into the 9s! I picked up free hp using a Cloyes double roller. Close to a half a tenth Damn they used some power
Richard, have you watched Steve Morris' recent cam videos? he comes at it from a different angle and it is quite interesting and very cool. Love all of the good tech on youtube nowadays. you are all saints!!!
I rarely get to watch live. But enjoy each episode So much. My son And I are building a turbo front engine dragster. Going from na to boost Is as little intimidating. We're basing the build on a dart block and afr 225 head's. Planning on making it a 408 cid. Basically it's a summit build because the warehouse is in Arlington Texas 20 minutes from the house. My question is for a real drag car what cam would you like?. I'm looking for about 1000hp. But reliability is Paramount. Planning on around 14- 20 psi of boost. Any and all suggestions are welcome I know you're busy and I thank you for taking the time to read this. Love the show just hate I can't watch it live. Thanks for what you do for the petrol heads in Texas.
My LS combo has a Comp double roller on it as it drive the magneto and fuel pump off the end of the camshaft. I'm running an LS2 guide on mine as well. The Comp was sloppy compared to a GEN1 combo.
How about a Milodon fixed idler gear drive ? I’ve heard they effect valvetrain harmonics. But for durability, both the Ford 300 straight 6 and Cummins 12 valve have them with select versions exceeding 1million miles.
Those old school SBC style chains weren’t a roller chain, so they got sloppy pretty quick, so the norm became the double roller. All the late model stuff and a a true single roller and IMO is just as good or better than any aftermarket double roller. It’s nice to have an adjustable setup but not 100% needed.
This video was worth a few $100 if I had watched it a week ago. Gm gears and chain new had slop. With 3/8 pushrod weight and spring pressure. I got a billet double. Then cam plate end play was too tight. Oil pick up next blah blah.
I run a double and a mellings hv/hp pump cause there’s less chance of drama and it takes fuck all to fit it just make sure the oil pump spacers the correct way around
The LS series platform has always had a roller lifters, the rotating force or drag is much less than that of an engine that has a flat tappet camshaft. The LS1's had a very small chain and it performed very well but it was upgraded with heavier side links with the LS2. Same gears and chain rollers just heavy duty links. I always replace any chain with the LS2 piece and never had a problem. Another benefit of the single roller chain is that it's lighter, the G Forces produced as it spins are much less. Less wear and stretch especially at elevated rpm.
Cloyes adjustable AZ chains, single with the strength of a double and they are not loose, so no tensioner needed. The doubles are to much work. Clearance cover, Clearance melling pump, adjust oil pickup just to save money over an AZ chain isn't worth it.
I've always heard that the belt drive systems almost eliminate the harmonics or vibrations of the gears/chain touching each other. And give a very stable ignition signal through the distributor. But the cost is pretty high!! Would be interesting to compare: Regular chain driven, belt driven, and crank trigger. Probably come down to budget and desired use (?) (I'd like to see what the NASCAR style roller bearing cams (etc) actually are, in comparison to "regular Joe" timing chain setup (?)
I’m trying to run a pro comp double roller on my 2010 5.3 and a gm Hv oil pump but the cover is hitting the bolt heads am I gunna have to shave the plate cuz I can’t find a cover that’s made for the double roller
Never had a LS and likely never will. Great engines at first, but then why not fuck it up with displacement on demand, or add VVT.? Ford did a great job with the first 4.6 modular and that turned to shit fast. I see no reason not to think the modern Hemi isn't in fact the best engine from the big 3. I have two 2 valve Fords, but as far as that goes I'm done with Ford, GM as well. SUV wise I choose Jeep. And I wish they still had the 4.0 option , but it is something else to drive one with a Hemi. If you think the Ford eco boost is awesome, wait until something goes wrong!
Even a Cloyes gear-drive was WAY, WAY, CHEAPER than any Jimmy-style blower! The late-60s - early 70s Buick 350 V-8 was the lightest GM 350 V-8, and they had an aluminum cam-cover, which would distort after about 60K+ miles, allowing the cam to "walk", ALSO destroying the engine. Did the Olds, Pontiac, & Chevy cam-covers "fit"/'swap' onto the Buick?
Building a LQ4 just installed a double roller. What I don’t understand is if gaskets or sealant is required on the spacers for oil pump? Decided late to add the trick flow dampener but still cannot decide if sealant is needed. Anyone?
@@hondatech5000 I know the lower hole on right side is for the pump flow. It’s a S.A gear 78534T-9. The spacers seem to be a press cut pieces. With that the edges do not seem 100% flat. This is where I cannot find an answer? If it is not flat I’ll likely see low pressure, if I use sealant I assume an early death, with gaskets the pump is pushed further forward and the left side requires an additional spacer. Should I assemble timing assembly complete with gaskets and cover then check for clearance? If no contact noises just send it?
@@RHYNOMAN12 those spacers are precisely machined and you don't use any thing on them just like you don't use anything to mount the oil pump without the spacers.
I got a new chain for mine, had just as much slack as the one with 250,000 miles. Learning is expensive. But that's why I dig this channel. No telling how much money ol Richard has saved people knowing beats wonder and guessing Big time!
I have a double roller timing chain setup with the LS1 guide block on my LS3 416 stroker. The Chain didn’t have much if any slack.
Richard, you are my hero. People like you, David Freiburger, Steve Dulcich and Steve Brule get to do all the stuff most gearheads only dream of. Thank you for sharing videos like these and including people like me deeper into this hobby and the cool "sciency"/ engineering aspects of cars and engines that we are not able to do on our own.
happy to help and those guys are great to work with
I'm old school and just like Richard I double roller'd everything including my first few LS engines but it always took extra work and was a pain to go double roller. THEN I noticed that people a lot smarter than me (including all of the popular LS engine builders) were using single roller on LS with no problems so I started using single roller confidently with no issues. I have taken apart a few double roller LS engines to find that the chain had been rubbing.
Only just touching, seconds to clearance compared to the timing cover
YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON!!!THE! Only person I have ever heard mention honing the balancer on an older engine! I started doing that at the turn of the century when I started building circle track engines.
there is a sizable difference in the ID dimension between stock and after market dampers/balancers as well as between factory and after market cranks. most damper manufacturers (like ATI) undersize them so they need to be honed to fit properly (especially on a press-fit application like the LS.
Most if not all forged cranks are fractionally smaller on the snout and because of this, usually the dampers fit easily.
I used a comp cams double roller on my 99 C5 when I did my cam swap. It came with spacers for the oil pump, had to get some low profile oil pump bolts to clear the timing cover. The oil pump pickup tube went on with no problem because the spacers are not that thick.
For all my SmallBlock Mopar builds I always use the stock 3.9L V6 timing set as they are factory double roller setups.
I agree with the boys down under. Ls1
Some “Slop” is essential for the reliability of the chain. The block expands approximately 8 thou at full operating temp, if you take all the slop out of the chain when cold, you stress the chain when it’s hot
yes-but not .208 stretch
That’s the main reason why the chain stretches… keep in mind the chain also expands with heat. Almost even with the aluminum block because the timing chain is experiencing friction opening and closing valves increasing the chain temperature higher than the aluminum block.
I’m using a comp cams one it’s all fancy it’s adjustable billet double roller I wanna say it’s + - 6 i also used the comp cam one piece timing cover for the double roller so I didn’t have to grind anything at all the chain is very tight you have to work that on the cam you hold it up get one bolt and turn it a little to get the other two there is no play in my timing chain and it gets rid of chain slap works great the chain kit didn’t cost that much order the timing it and cover from my favorite store summit racing
I have a 2002 Avalanche with a 5.3L that I bought new, put a Whipple AXO SC system in it in 2004, and put 106K miles on it in 17 years. I used all synthetic oil, dual remote engine oil filters, engine and trans oil coolers, changed all the oil and filters a lot whether it needed it or not. The miles were 80% highway cruising (highway axle gear in the truck) some towing and hauling, no racing or off road, the engine never saw over 5000 rpm, and hi revs only occasionally when passing. Basically this engine was over-maintained and never beat, abused or run hard.
This engine was still running well when I recently took it apart for a top end rebuild, and I found the OEM timing chain was stretched horribly loose. The 100% bone stock cam and valve train was all in good shape, and the timing chain was so loose it was ready to jump a tooth. No doubt this was hurting throttle response and performance, as well as getting ready to strand me at any moment.
I replaced the timing set with a race grade double roller recommended by a local builder; they told me this timing set will support 2000 hp. My engine will barely make 400 hp, but I know from experience that the timing chain will stretch over time even on a low hp engine that was not run hard. That OEM chain was no doubt already stretched unacceptably bad at 50K miles. I want another 100K out of this engine so I went with the overkill timing set. I want to be sure after another 50 or 60K miles that the chain is not even close to getting ready to jump a tooth on me.
It required the oil pump to be spaced and the timing cover to be clearanced, so I did all that. Also I used a stock replacement oil pump, no hi volume or hi pressure pump for me. I already know from experience that will put a lot of oil up around the valves and cause excess oil consumption. My brother has a 700hp LSA in his 86 SS Monte, it has a HV oil pump, and he's getting a lot of oil in the PCV. He has a catch can on it and it's catching a lot of oil.
With a stock grade oil pump on my engine I have 60 psi cold (55 degree F ambient) with 30wt oil at 500 rpm idle (I have a stock idle cam in it). At full operating temperature there is 52 psi at 500 rpm idle and it increases to above 75 psi when revved to 4000 rpm. This is all the oil pressure the engine needs, more is not better.
Onemoremisfit
Hello
Question I'm working on 02 Lm7 5.3 bored. 020, Eldgen stage 2 sloppy Cam, 706 heads .660 lift springs, with LSA supercharger.
Since your brother has a lot of oil consumption with his LSA, you would recommend I use the standard oil pump instead of the high volume oil pump?
I also have dual oil catch cans not installed yet.
The motor will be going in a 1984 Chevy Caprice coupe.
@@pucegtr Hello. I would not be the guy to definitively answer that for you because I'm just a DIY hack and I'm not a professional engine builder. All I have is an opinion really, based on some level of experience.
However there is some common knowledge out there. One rule of thumb is as long as you have a minimum oil pressure of 10 psi per 1000 rpm, i.e. 60 psi at 6000 rpm, you are OK.
From what I understand about HV and HP oil pumps, they are intended for bottom ends that have been built with greater than stock bearing clearances, those clearances being required for severe and sustained high rpm duty such as racing. And then when you use that HV or HP pump to satisfy those feeding those extra clearances, there may be some trade offs you have to live with.
I have used HV pumps on mild street engines in the past and found from my own experience that it was a bad idea that caused high oil consumption. Basically my opinion is that any bottom end with stock bearing clearances in a street duty engine should be OK with a stock oil pump.
But if you are concerned because the engine will be high HP and you want a little insurance at the bottom end from a higher output oil pump, that is understandable, but then obviously you have to be willing to accept the trade off of more oil at the top end and the oil consumption that might cause.
There are possible ways to restrict oil flow to the top end to mitigate oil consumption with high output oil pumps, but you would have to talk to a pro engine builder about this.
In the case of my brother's car, I have an opinion, and that opinion is I would have probably went with a stock oil pump since it is a street car and as far as I know the bottom end has stock clearances. And if I had my heart set on a HV oil pump, then I would have consulted a builder as to the possibility of installing oil restriction to the top end while the block was still bare. Once you put it together you have to live with the results. My brother's engine is safe on the bottom end with the extra oil pressure. It's a stroker with over 400 cid, so maybe that extra oil pressure is good insurance, but he has to live with some oil in the catch can. Aside from that little problem his build turned out great and the engine runs strong. Good luck with your build.
@@onemoremisfit
1st off thank you for your opinion and your info I appreciate it truly!!!
Anymore knowledge I can get on anything whether I knew it or not is always helpful in my opinion!!
I've built sbc motors 355 and 383's before this is my 1st LS build with a superchargercharger..
I'm in the process of putting my motor bak together ,I just got it back from the machine shop the other day. All the bearing clearances were within factory spec, I'm at the point right now to install the oil pump and frt. tmming cover.
I have the Melling HV oil pump right now..
Thanks again for all your help and info
My new LS7 570HP crate motor had a verry sloppy stretched out chain with only 1,800 miles on it, vid on my channel, went with a Comp true double roller chain, no slop, and yes, a lot of work to clearance the cover, and the wet sump LS7 uses the LS3 chain setup. New sub, great channel!
If you have ever went fishing for roller bearings after a stock rocker departed this world you know the captured bearing trunnion upgrade is cheap insurance imo.
Smokey Yunick preferred gears(angle cut) or belts. Smokey did an experiment with a clear plastic chain cover. He said , at speed, the chain looked like a possessed snake. He couldn't imagine that any good for timing control. Hence the change to belts or gear sets. That is why many long distance racers are using belts or gears. Chains are cheaper and that is why they are used, but as cheap chains go bad at less than 200,000 miles, and as it will be close to a $1000 touch to replace a chain while in your vehicle, I prefer to spend the extra bucks. Especially if you plan to use the engine for many miles
Mid power is a track car full power is a drag car and what am I talking about I should shut my mouth and listen to this man 😳😳😳👑👑👑
Hey Richard you need to get your hands on those overhead cam mercury marine heads
I replaced lots of them plastic gears back in the day.. And seen them eat engine up.. I remember a 307 or 350 so bad you could turn crank a 1/4 turn before the rotor would turn.
I use BIG single roller chains on my small blocks anymore. Figure if the ls little bike chain holds up to the springs pressures of the modern cams so I figure my big single roller and steel gears are good to go
For your question Richard the ls race builds I know of and my own all single roller. To me I see it as just the time to “upgrade” to a new one on freshen, or my own just a c5r chain with zr1 cam sprocket and some fancy arp bolts i over torqued I mean carefully torqued. To degree my cam, I found tdc with a cheap traveler gauge (after dot to dot), then rotated my cam sprocket “slack” all the way advanced, and blasted those bolts with some red loctite. I have a nice 4340 crank and I just put oem crank sprocket too. GM engineers shit on the aftermarket 9/10 times
I have used several Comp double rollers and the biggest reason is exactly what you mentioned. They are tight, and I have the loose feel of all the single and stock replacement stuff that I have had experience with. To me loose screams value timing inaccuracy.
I have ran Erson, Milodon and Pete Jackson gear drives all noisy! BBC and SBC into the 9s! I picked up free hp using a Cloyes double roller. Close to a half a tenth Damn they used some power
Only chain I've ever saw without slop was a roller master dual isw chain. Also cost 240$ at the time.
Even a new katch chain swings in the wind
Iws timing chain? I have one on a ls3 with the tensioner.
Richard, have you watched Steve Morris' recent cam videos? he comes at it from a different angle and it is quite interesting and very cool. Love all of the good tech on youtube nowadays. you are all saints!!!
STEVE IS THE REAL DEAL
Thanks for the knowledge
I rarely get to watch live.
But enjoy each episode
So much. My son And I are building a turbo front engine dragster.
Going from na to boost Is as little intimidating.
We're basing the build on a dart block and afr 225 head's. Planning on making it a 408 cid. Basically it's a summit build because the warehouse is in Arlington Texas 20 minutes from the house.
My question is for a real drag car what cam would you like?. I'm looking for about 1000hp. But reliability is Paramount. Planning on around 14- 20 psi of boost.
Any and all suggestions are welcome
I know you're busy and I thank you for taking the time to read this.
Love the show just hate I can't watch it live.
Thanks for what you do for the petrol heads in Texas.
a 408 will make 1000 hp very easy-look at a cam with 231/248 kind of duration
My LS combo has a Comp double roller on it as it drive the magneto and fuel pump off the end of the camshaft. I'm running an LS2 guide on mine as well. The Comp was sloppy compared to a GEN1 combo.
The budget timing upgrade is to run the beefier LS2 single chain and the Mellings No-drill chain guide w/ the gears you have.
How about a Milodon fixed idler gear drive ? I’ve heard they effect valvetrain harmonics. But for durability, both the Ford 300 straight 6 and Cummins 12 valve have them with select versions exceeding 1million miles.
Missed the live stream. Missed whatever Clayton was doing.
I want to install a cam is a 1/4 race cam the right choice ?
Those old school SBC style chains weren’t a roller chain, so they got sloppy pretty quick, so the norm became the double roller.
All the late model stuff and a a true single roller and IMO is just as good or better than any aftermarket double roller. It’s nice to have an adjustable setup but not 100% needed.
I got a double row chain on my 6.0 ls motor a 2001 and no spacers I don't know the brand got from jeggs
Whats going on with the Nova?
How about you run a stock ls on the dyno and measure chain slop hot and cold to see if is required for heat expansion?
it's not related to heat-it's sloppy even cold
@@richardholdener1727 I was thinking that after the engine heated up it may expand, moving the crank and cam apart, tightening the chain.
I remember buying a Zoom double roller timing chain sets for a SBC for $29.00 back in the mid 1980’s😂
Does it necessary too have the timing chain dampener ? On a 427lsx with 3.0 whipple? If yes can i use the black LS7 newer design?
This video was worth a few $100 if I had watched it a week ago. Gm gears and chain new had slop. With 3/8 pushrod weight and spring pressure. I got a billet double. Then cam plate end play was too tight. Oil pick up next blah blah.
I run a double and a mellings hv/hp pump cause there’s less chance of drama and it takes fuck all to fit it just make sure the oil pump spacers the correct way around
These motors are getting old and done to death but we need new news on how to get a SBE to make more the 400rwp
the ls or the 3800?
@@richardholdener1727 Ls1
Hey Richard! So when you add gap does it cause any extra wear?
no
So why wouldn't the factory gap be bigger ?
Also if the chain is too tight and that aluminum block grows, well that’s not so great
Anyone know why in marine applications, "why they use timing gears?
What would cause an engine to tick? My engine overheated then stopped n my radiator was defective. Now it ticks and it has low oil compression
lifter, vac leak, ex leak, rod knock etc...
The LS series platform has always had a roller lifters, the rotating force or drag is much less than that of an engine that has a flat tappet camshaft. The LS1's had a very small chain and it performed very well but it was upgraded with heavier side links with the LS2. Same gears and chain rollers just heavy duty links. I always replace any chain with the LS2 piece and never had a problem. Another benefit of the single roller chain is that it's lighter, the G Forces produced as it spins are much less. Less wear and stretch especially at elevated rpm.
Glh has week trans use the auto 5 speeds are going to fail quickly
Cloyes adjustable AZ chains, single with the strength of a double and they are not loose, so no tensioner needed.
The doubles are to much work. Clearance cover, Clearance melling pump, adjust oil pickup just to save money over an AZ chain isn't worth it.
How do you feel about the belt drives?
belt drives work well
I've always heard that the belt drive systems almost eliminate the harmonics or vibrations of the gears/chain touching each other.
And give a very stable ignition signal through the distributor.
But the cost is pretty high!!
Would be interesting to compare:
Regular chain driven, belt driven, and crank trigger. Probably come down to budget and desired use (?)
(I'd like to see what the NASCAR style roller bearing cams (etc) actually are, in comparison to "regular Joe" timing chain setup (?)
I’m trying to run a pro comp double roller on my 2010 5.3 and a gm Hv oil pump but the cover is hitting the bolt heads am I gunna have to shave the plate cuz I can’t find a cover that’s made for the double roller
don't run a double roller-not needed-or clearance the cover
Always great info 👍
Never had a LS and likely never will. Great engines at first, but then why not fuck it up with displacement on demand, or add VVT.? Ford did a great job with the first 4.6 modular and that turned to shit fast. I see no reason not to think the modern Hemi isn't in fact the best engine from the big 3. I have two 2 valve Fords, but as far as that goes I'm done with Ford, GM as well. SUV wise I choose Jeep. And I wish they still had the 4.0 option , but it is something else to drive one with a Hemi. If you think the Ford eco boost is awesome, wait until something goes wrong!
Even a Cloyes gear-drive was WAY, WAY, CHEAPER than any Jimmy-style blower! The late-60s - early 70s Buick 350 V-8 was the lightest GM 350 V-8, and they had an aluminum cam-cover, which would distort after about 60K+ miles, allowing the cam to "walk", ALSO destroying the engine. Did the Olds, Pontiac, & Chevy cam-covers "fit"/'swap' onto the Buick?
Building a LQ4 just installed a double roller. What I don’t understand is if gaskets or sealant is required on the spacers for oil pump? Decided late to add the trick flow dampener but still cannot decide if sealant is needed. Anyone?
@@hondatech5000 I know the lower hole on right side is for the pump flow. It’s a S.A gear 78534T-9. The spacers seem to be a press cut pieces. With that the edges do not seem 100% flat. This is where I cannot find an answer? If it is not flat I’ll likely see low pressure, if I use sealant I assume an early death, with gaskets the pump is pushed further forward and the left side requires an additional spacer. Should I assemble timing assembly complete with gaskets and cover then check for clearance? If no contact noises just send it?
no gasket is needed
@@RHYNOMAN12 those spacers are precisely machined and you don't use any thing on them just like you don't use anything to mount the oil pump without the spacers.
Why does all the LSx after LS1 need to have a chain guide / block? Anybody ever run without one on the later gen motors?
look at how sloppy your ls1 (or any ls based motor) chain is
@@richardholdener1727 yes there was slop in it but why is that a problem?
I can't watch an hour and 15 minutes for the answer. Someone give me the jist lol
thnx for the support-most don't use a double roller chain on LS applications