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How long does that take to 3D print?
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
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How long does it take to 3D print something? This, most common question, is actually something you have a little control over. Let's look at some common setting and how you can change them to affect this question. MATHEMATICAL!
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All music by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Thanks for taking the time to explain this so thoroughly!
Thank you so much, this has to be the best video for explaining what and how settings impact print time.
Good video. I was waiting to see you go over retraction and jerk / etc. And how they affect time and quality.
Interesting. I never really considered these settings. I also know Z-hop adds print time, but it very much depends on the printer.
Heh, I'm coming into this hobby as a CNC milling machine setter. So I'm used to 2 hour more or less setting times on average as I set the less complex machines. But after that the parts roll off the machine between 20/30 seconds for the basic stuff and 20 mins later for the more involved items
Thank you. Really leant something. I love Simplify3d
This is freaking awesome
Hello, just want to sayI love your videos, they are very informative. I know this video is 2 years old but I've only recently discovered your fine channel. I don't know if you've already had comments or not, but I just wanted to point out that at about the 14 minute mark, you changed the layer height to .3 from .15. After you went back to change it, you actually changed the nozel size to .1 instead of layer size, and when it didn't print you went back and changed the layer hight without changing the nozel size back to .40. I'm not sure if that makes any difference or not, but I just thought I'd mention it to you.
Keep up the great work!!!!
That was a silly mistake done while recording, but the graph was done with the correct information. Good catch!
At 14:15 when you were doing the layer height adjustments you accidentally changed the nozzle size to 0.10 instead of the layer height, FYI. It stayed at 0.10 for the rest of the layer height section of the video, so the derived numbers are off relative to the earlier baselines.
Yeah, in the video demo that's true, but when I gathered the data before hand to make the charts I didn't make that mistake. But, good catch.
I actually ran some of my own estimates. Using the fairly new bob-om HD model on thingiverse, Cura 2.1.2 x64 slicer, 1.2mm walls (3 walls), 25% infill, 40-50mm/s print speed. Looking at JUST changing the layer heights (hh:mm):
0.1 - 33:58
0.15 - 22:55
0.2 - 17:34
0.25 - 14:07
0.3 - 11:55
So you can cut the print time in half using 0.2 to 0.1 with only a minor hit on the final printed quality. Versus a big reduction in quality printing at 0.3 layer height (say with a 0.6 nozzle as I use sometimes), cuts down the print time by almost a third of original 0.1 time. So that is a part of 3D printing that we need to balance, do we need strength, speed, or quality? While slower print speeds resulting in longer print times typically lends itself to strength and quality, some of the newer 3D printers out there are able to keep the strength and quality at higher speeds, but also comes with a higher price tag.
Thank you..
Great Video Joe! One thing: The Nozzlesize also in- or decreases the printingtime, but of cause also the quality
oh ok i saw your comment right now ;-)
S3D is notoriously underestimating the amount of time something takes to print. I've had a print estimated at 16 hours take 20+. I've never had a print finish under S3D estimation. I've had a 4 hour print take 9 1/2. S3D can be greatly off.
You really need to start with a baseline of a 4 hour model and see where it goes -- 30% more is over an hour more time. There are more elements than acceleration, there is "jerk" which is how fast the head does corners, some printers can do set jerk to 15mm and have it corner well, others need to have at 5mm or 8mm etc. Acceleration of your printer is also not known by S3D it's extrapolating, guessing -- some printers can have the acceleration set to 4000 or 5000 and have things work, others will have belts slip as it's accelerating. Then there is non-print movement, how fast the head can do travels while not printing, that may actually be the bigger limiting factor as the model gets bigger. If you tune other parameters, that is jerk and acceleration to work best with the mechanics of the machine, print speed can be increased without lose in quality. I typically print at 90 and 100mm/sec (different cartesian printers) and the one printing at 90 is actually faster due to higher accelerations and more aggressive jerk. I built a large delta and those printers can absolutely fly, if you can extrude plastic fast enough (that's a limiting factor there, will get to it in a bit) those printers can print and actually achieve speeds of excess of 200mm/sec. And their non printing travels can easily go over 500mm/sec. That being said, I'm upgrading my delta extruder and hot end to bondech and e3d volcano -- when dealing with big models (the delta print volume is 490mm diameter and 685mm height -- though will be a bit less with volcano) using standard .4mm nozzle is just not practical, as fast as it can move, going up to a bigger nozzle for large models will not noticeably impact quality and will drastically speed up prints. That was a lot longer than I intended. PS you changed your nozzle diameter in one setting to .1 -- that will A) not work B) make the print take a lot longer.
+kazolar I did change the nozzle diameter there at the end. Fortunately it was on the last item and I did catch it after recording the video. I just hoped no one on the internet would notice. So bonus points to you. The charts were built before my mistake, though, that so I know it didn't effect the date there.
Yeah, S3D isn't accurate, but if it's consistently inaccurate it can still be used for comparisons with reasonable assurance. It's not perfect, but it's better than having to print 40 copies of the same thing with different settings.
+Joe's 3D Workbench I find that the more travels and retraction there is in the print the greater the deviation is. If I tell S3D to lift on retraction, it will get even slower, and the estimate will be even more optimistic, however doing that eliminates "scar" marks, so worth it.
I am using Cura, and it actually did underestimate the print time once. That was a mesh screen I created using a Blender script, and it was especially crafted to cheat Cura into printing a mesh the "obvious" way, meaning to lay down whole length columns and rows. With 10cm lines, the printer goes to top speed in no time at all.
I am thinking about how to analyze printing duration from raw gcode scripts, especially with regard to velocity, acceleration and jerks... Still researching how an algorithm would look like, though. I definitely don't want to implement a complete "virtual"
firmware for this, though.
+Joe's 3D Workbench I noticed that your setup of S3D is using mm/s for movement speeds. My version has the speeds set to mm/min, do you know how to change to mm/s?
For someone whos never used CAD and 3d printing how easy would it be to import CAD diagrams and get them printed to scale, I would need them to be imported at the scale and then printed at scale only 8cm for example? thanks in advance great vid btw
Nice Professor..
could you help me with what this software is you use for the printing and demonstration ?
This particular software is called Simplify 3D, but any slicer has time previews. They're not always accurate, but they work for purposes of comparison.
Great video! As a NOOB, I truly appreciate videos like this AND the Blender videos.
I am waiting for my BCN3D Sigma printer to be shipped and am trying to get a head start on preparing myself.
BTW..At 14:15, you accidentally changed the Nozzle Diameter rather than changing the Layer Height.
+notcranium You're the second person to catch that nozzle change. Man, you can't get away with anything online. Fortunately it didn't break anything and I caught it soon after.
I recommend you start modeling now. Don't need a printer for that. I was modeling for a year before I got a 3D printer.
+Joe's 3D Workbench Thanks for the suggestion. I already started modeling in Sketchup and want to move over to Blender for the flexibility although Blender does appear to have a much steeper learning curve!
I just bought this book about making an Octopus Pencil Holder that I hope will help with the learning. :)
This is a very interesting video. When I had to explain to family members how long things take, they seemed pretty surprised. My sister had envisioned something like those machines at zoos and museums that mold plastic or wax figures in a couple of minutes...
I do have my doubts about Simplify 3D's estimates, because they are always considerably off for me, but I don't know if they are consistently off (in other words, I'm not sure if it gets the percentage difference between the various settings right, even if the total time is wrong). It does seem a little counterintuitive that so many of the settings like infill don't actually affect print time that much. That said, layer does indeed seem to make the most dramatic difference. I'm still new to 3D printing but after doing some experimentation I've more or less decided to do most things at 0.1 mm layer height. I'd rather it take longer than look bad, and when I tried 0.2 mm my models looked rather bandy in places. But I might give 0.15 mm a try.
+Mighty Jabba's Collection S3Ds estimates may be wrong, but I was relying on them being consistently wrong for comparison reasons. Of course the only way we'd really know is to print the same models over and measure the times. Adding up all the prints I would have to do in this video that would be a week worth of printing for me and who knows how much filament so i can have 40 copies of the same model, more or less. I'm willing to do a lot of things for 3D printing, but like Meatloaf I won't do that.
+Joe's 3D Workbench Sure, this is the most practical approach to take for sure. I also think there's going to be some significant variations between printers that would make it difficult to make comparisons even if you wanted to try and actually print everything out.
Wow thanks Professor! That was super interesting and definitely educational ;)
I wonder if the shell is additionally slowed down besides the acceleration limit to improve quality? Maybe that is the reason why additional shells don't have that much impact? The speed only seems to go from 34 to 77 mm/s at 9:16 though.
PS: My bet is that 100% infill would make the size scale closer to cubic scale though.
Print in PLA, no heat bed= 5 to 10 minutes heat up and cool down time savings
How does Simplified 3D estimate print cost and can you change that ? Awesome video by the way. Thanks
Better audio (needs a little boost) after the break.
Very Informative. Shall watch again and take notes. 1st time 3D-er here and with this 'Technical' thinker, It will be applied.
Also, since you like making Charts, Will you make one with shrink rates for each type of Extruded material?
Great job. Already 69 more subs... Sweet
thanks
thanks lots of info
Quick question for everyone, does the audio before or after the break sound better?
I thought the volume level was better in the beginning, but I think overall sound quality was better at the end.
on your printer you should try this combination:
Layerheight 0,200
Speed 80mm/sec
Outlines 4
Infill 40%
Scale not over 100-175%
Maybe tweak on the acceleration settings faster.
did you just set your nozzle diameter and print layer to .1mm? if so then your print time I think would actually be a lot lower once you set the nozzle diameter back to .4mm then set the layer height to .1mm lol
at 14:15 was where you changed your nozzle diameter, which I am sure you caught later unless none of these settings were saved so you never had a print try to use them ha ha
Did I not reply to you 2 months ago when I wrote this? Yeah, I noticed that I messed that up after the video. Fortunately the data for the estimates was made before I made that screw-up, so while the lecture is a mess, the facts are right. Good catch on you.
not even sure about the query about replying, heck I forgot I even posted this lol.
128 hours PLUS
I was about to buy a 3D printer
Oh, you absolutely should. This is just about setting the expectation. 3D printing's slow. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
that's a typical question everyone is asking when they see my prints. the second is obviously about money.
+ilovedoom True. But that's an even harder question to answer. Material cost, that's easy. But it's also the least significant part of the cost.
+Joe's 3D Workbench i have an excel for that on google drive. I hate to read it because most of the prints were forfeited...
+ilovedoom how do you factor that in, cost of plastic -- cost of power -- I printed a huge cave/perch for my bearded dragon -- long over 200 hours in printing, 25 large prints nearly 5kg of plastic, it's PETG so it was expensive, so yes it's $150 in plastic, but the printer was running for 200+ hours with a heated bed on -- that's electrical usage -- not free -- then of course do you subdivide the cost of the machine into each print?
+kazolar some sort of what you said is what makes the prize. energy cost per minutes, material usage and a forfait for handling a 3d model, a downloaded content with all the correct licensing. the other case is about making a model and that's totally another thing and another topic. an example for you, I have 0,60€ per KW and 150w of the printer. the material is almost 0,9 density for PLA, but it depends on the specific material. with all this in mind an oddish vase is almost 35€ with some settings to get the print in less than 3 hours and a 35€/750gr filament.
I have a system I installed in my panel (my own circuit based on instructions I found online) which measures current draw from various breakers in house. Basically I have 30 different inputs (2 arduino mega's -- 15 analogs for inputs per as the system needs 1 input for current frequency baseline) -- So I feed the data into a mysql server and can analyze it. I am currently working on a wireless LCD display which will display instant power draw from all my printers, a little embeded WiFi chip with some custom code. I will then be able to answer the question more adequately since 3 printers with heated beds do pull a good bit of current, however it's deceptive as my biggest beast with a 500mm heated bed and max current of 600w doesn't actually pull that continuously -- I notice it settles at about 200 watts due to PID tuning.