You totally nailed it…. “What are we really doing here?” Imagine showing the Strawberry and Ruth side by side comparison to someone not in our hobby and trying to explain or make excuses for why or how they are the same grade. It seems to me that most of our hobby realizes that the hobby has lost its way yet we just continue to drift further and further out. It’s like this big ship that can’t be turned. Great observations as always. Merry Christmas and all the best, Ronnie
Unfortunately the key sentence is not “What are we really doing here?” but the next one: “Not that I’m going to change my habits or anything, but…” That’s how it’s gotten to this point.
Awesome video Chris very good information. I think the problem with grading is everyone has about 5 cards that should be graded that actually make sense to grade but you need at least 20 cards I believe to hit the bulk price point.. so we end up sending 15 cards in every order that makes no sense to be grading in the first place. I’m with you though I’m grading a lot less cards now. If the raw value is under $40 it makes no sense to be grading it.
Hey Chris. I made a video about the grade this Ruth card received. A lot of the comments I got back was- Who cares about the grade. I think there’s a deeper issue with grading, as you said but a lot of collectors don’t want to call out an overgraded card, they only care about under graded.
It's absolutely incredible how one informative video and one darn savvy comment makes you say "Oh. My. Gosh. Aaaand there it is." Thank you to you BOTH! Seriously!
The beautiful thing about free markets is that they are exactly that...free. When there is a market out of balance, e.g. the difference between graded and ungraded prices, the market will correct it and people will submit more ungraded cards. Because there are independent actors, the market will over-correct. As an investor or collector, you have to know what to do in each of the market timelines, the valley, the rise, the peak, and the fall. This seems like a great time to get cheap graded cards if that is your thing, people will eventually submit less the cycle will again happen. As far as the 2nd point, its quite valid, but everyone knows vintage is a different ball game and relative compared to modern and ultra-modern. The good thing is grades are usually pretty relative to cards of that era. Also as printing improves and with the proliferation of numbered cards, grading becomes more and more silly in my opinion.
Also wanted to add, as someone who works in finance for a living, its a lot of fun to see broader market economics play out in the sports card world, and really in any market besides traditional finance. Also for 99.9% of us, just buy the cards you like and enjoy it, don't let chasing making money ruin a good hobby.
Luckily I learned this before I started sending my cards in....i just buy the cards i want already graded and 90% of the time I'm paying well under what I would have to pay for grading myself.
I didn't realize that my comment would have such a profound effect on you, Chris! When I saw that Strawberry card, it was the first thing I thought of when I remembered that the Ruth card had also been graded a 3 by the same company.
I think I figured it out. The grader saw 100 of those Ruth cards and they were all 1’s and 2’s this one was better so he gave it a 3 in context of that card. Then he saw 100 of these strawberry ones and this one was the worst (thanks to the crease) so he wanted to label it a 3 to show it was the worst in context of the card. Now - when you are shopping for cards it’s important to consider the era , type of card etc . When comparing across generations or even different sets , the grading house kind of crumbles . For example , certain sets may be very rare to have all 4 sharp corners so they let 3 sharp corners get a ten. Other sets it’s very common to have all 4 sharp corners so never would 3 sharp corners get a ten. Now back to the point y’all are making…. Great point and it’s busted , but this is the answer , the context matters and cards need to be compared to each other and others of that set.
Being kinda cynical on the subject, I'll wonder about a few things: is it favoritism towards certain submitters? Like Dr. Frankenstein, create something (extreme high dollar markets) we don't need or basically create chaos and confuse people into $$ signs. It's a mess and it draws a crowd.
Thank you! That's why it takes forever to get your cards back. People sending in cards that should never be graded. Amen to the Ruth/Strawberry comparison.
4:50 people do stupid stuff… this is why. There’s a LOT of cards/people! Long Run, grading a card BARLEY. Makes sense to me anyway. •Teach yourself how to grade cards •Buy vintage cards you like. Win 🎉🎄👍
Chris you have enough followers and are highly respected in the hobby where you should reach out to SGC and ask them to come on your channel and give your audience a professional explanation of how those 2 cards got the same grade. I presume rhey wouldn't but you reaching out to them would at least show us they're willing to justify there grades or show us they know they were wrong. In both!
Not knocking Chris at all, great channel and I’m sure he’s a great dude, but there’s a zero percent chance SGC acknowledges him if he reaches out to them with “only” 63K subscribers. I love SGC, but you’re going to have to have at least a couple million subscribers for any grading company to even consider explaining themselves when it comes to grades. The response he would get is “you can view our grading scale on our website”
@@buiesportscards5122talk to Scottie B Cards. He has around 25k followers and just had a few videos with the head of CGC to walk through their process.
@@buiesportscards5122 Does any hobby related youtube channel have millions of subscribers? And many of those 20k subscriber channels are sponsored by SGC, so I think they'd care.
@@kevinheckeler they did this video with Sports Card Investor a bit ago I thought was fairly well done: ruclips.net/video/_YNOs6Xu80w/видео.htmlsi=MSaYA1-WQXN43y7_
Great video Chris. The second point is why, after collecting for most of my young life, I have no interest in getting back in. It's completely ridiculous the inconsistencies and, what I see as, the lack of credibility and accountability in these grading companies. It all looks too expensive to let the value of my cards be determined by some random person that might be having a bad day or whatever. I'd much rather watch content like your and other people spend hundreds or thousands on these cards with a 1% chance of ever getting close to their money back. Merry Christmas!
Chris - Curious if you would be open to sharing some video stats for the year. I'd loved to know if your channel views are trending up or down, or what. It might shed some great insights into interest in the hobby.
I feel like grading companies sometimes grade cards with consideration to their age and era. With that said, that Ruth with that paper loss is a 1 on any other day. And am invisible print dot or wrinkle on that Strawberry should be a 7 or 8...if we're talking about eye appeal vs. whatever PSA and SGC considered.
2:40 WOW Thank you for your straight reporting. You are the conscience of card collecting community. Your Ruth/Strawberry comparison drives the point home like nothing other.
If you go on psa’s site they use a 52 mantle to show each card grade 1-10. So it doesn’t make sense they would grade vintage cards differently when they use a psa 8 mantle to show what any psa should look like.
With the grading of the Strawberry/Ruth; I feel like grading companies give this type of grades that are comparable to other cards in there set. For example the Daryl Strawberry card in the condition that it was doesn’t compare to a 10 of that same set due to xyz but if you compare the Ruth card to other cards graded in that set, it comes out to a 3 since other cards graded in that set are in bad condition. This is the only reason I could come up with in terms of why that scenario happened with the Strawberry and Ruth.
Well said! Additionally, many people forget that grades are based on technical standards, not eye-appeal. A tiny scratch or wrinkle usually drops the grade to a 3, same with paper loss. Collectors will say, not all PSA 3s are equal, and condition within lower grades can vary greatly. Given PSA doesn't give the grade of 9.5, and it is often difficult to discern a 10 from a 9, I think the entire system of numerical grades should be shifted up. To me, mint = perfect = 10 = no flaws = 50/50. Create Mint- = 9.5 = 1 flaw.
Grading has become the new money flex. There was a dude in my LCS a few months ago putting together a bulk order and we got to talking. What struck me was the comment (paraphrased) "Real collectors get their cards graded." It's not the first time I've heard a similar sentiment. There seems to be an elitist move among some in the hobby to gatekeep and separate "casuals" from the "REAL collectors" and that just makes me want to puke. Don't be that guy, y'all.
Breakers are on RUclips calling PSA the "upgrade shop". Take your $3 card, send it to PSA and make double your cost. As you said, this doesn't make sense. There's no reason to send cheap cards to PSA but greed is driving people. It's ridiculous to send junk cards to PSA.
If you zoom out and look at the uptick in items for sale not only is there a massive in Flux of new sellers and people selling bit the economic factors in play are showing that more and more people are hurting for cash. The feds effects of the quickest rate of hikes are taking longer to impact people. The amount of people starting to get behind on bills and in debt are through the roof. People are trying to sell more and more.
This could be a time in the industry similar to previous housing market surplus times. Smart knowledgeable people in the industry can use this time to buy cards that will be worth $$ again in the future for cheap
Great video! My theory is these are new people coming into the grading space. They search on RUclips something like "how to make money grading cards" and get bombarded with videos from 2 and 3 years ago when you could grade a base card and still make money. Your video will certainly save a few people from falling down that hole. Happy Holidays Chris!
I think you have a really good point. Somewhere down the line it has to come back and bite the grading companies. There has to be more information than just a number. Your thoughts?
I agree that years ago submitting cards to be graded and sell for a profit due to the grade made sense. Who still remembers $6 grading fee for bulk? It seems like eons ago but in reality maybe 6-7 years ago? Ultra-modern submitters are almost always new to the hobby. Collectors who have been in the hobby for a long time are likely to focus on vintage stuff for submission, particularly pre-panini cards, unless it’s super rare or valuable modern cards. I myself have stopped using PSA and as a recreational dealer buy and flip raw cards to counter the high grading fees and inconsistent PSA grading of recent years. I still use PSA on and off for high value cards ($500+ raw), but refrain from bulk submission of cards as much as possible unless it’s for PC. The increase in grading submissions may be partially attributed to holiday specials offered by PSA for the holiday season or the recent bulk TCG $15 special. With card values across all sports declining since the pandemic highs, it makes little sense to grade something and 6 months later the raw and graded value of the card has dropped significantly. Sorry for the long rant. Happy holidays to all and happy collecting!
I too have the same philosophy. I’ve stopped subbing cards. Not enough gain to offset the cost. Bonkers that people are still spending $ on this especially with ultra modern where no one can decipher between a 9 vs 10 with the naked eye
This just shows why “eye appeal” is becoming so much more important than the grade you get. For collecting at least. Maybe eye appeal will become king selling too in the future, since grades seem so subjective.
This is an interesting debate on eye appeal vs the grade. I think collectors gravitate to eye appeal as I lean in this corner. But when I go to shows and see dealers buying cards, they rarely look at the card and the deal is solely predicated on the grade. I remember selling some doubles a few years ago as they were all PSA 9 cards. The dealer literally looked up comps for the PSA 9, and didn’t inspect the card for centering. Thats why I wonder sometimes if we overanalyze these cards because the majority of the hobby still cares about the grade over eye appeal?
Another great video with another great point about about grading! I used to buy so many raw cards and boxes to open up but then in the last year I just bought the players I wanted graded 9.5-10s for less than $20 each some less than $10 each! Because I had the same conclusion that the grading cost more than my total cost to buy the card and I didn’t have to pay for a membership to any grading company or any other fees! Just what it cost to get the card in my hands! So if I can get a pretty good player that’s got a chance of having a good career and being a HOFER then I pay $20 for a 10 all day! Buy 2-3 10s for the cost of a box of cards at Walmart and pull S**t out or have the 2-3 10s of what you hope to pull!! No brained for me!
Newbies have the idea that PSA 10 equals riches, even for ultra-modern stars that are worth a dollar raw. When there are so many copies of a card in a PSA 10 slab that they sell for a couple bucks, something is seriously astray. Junk slabs indeed.
Sir i consider myself a investor / collector and i will not even consider buying raw. Also if you want my money i need psa. Must be psa 10 as well what i like best is that 50 percent of my purchases are under grading cost so it makes complete sense. Trying to sell a raw card is like trying to sell a snow blower. So only way to sell your card is to grade results in having to grade your card or sitting on it. I love it please everyone keep grading! PSA
I think that it simply just confirms your card is authentic, as we all know as well the grade may vary from one employee to another also they claim to put more focus on the grading scale getting more strict, the Ruth was graded years ago.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, Chris. You da man and you’re also my day-1 card content creator…I do remember certain grading companies offering $9-10 specials on this year’s cards, but thst doesn’t explain away the low-dollar EBay sales you cite here…Also appreciate you contemplating the grading space. Tis a peculiar beast for sure.
Merry Christmas to you and your family, Chris 🎄 Your perspective on topics like this is very much appreciated from this particular Sewall-igan, and I’m sure all the others as well.
While one criteria may be to grade all cards equally despite the year/ star of the card. While another thought is in that Ruth series, the card is a 3 compared to the surviving cards from that set. While the 1980's Strawberry card is a 3 because most of the surviving cards are in as good shape or better. This happens with coins a lot. The are not graded equally, an older key coin gets more leeway in grading as compared to the existing examples.
I’m a weekly buyer from one of the channel’s sponsors for cards from 1969-1975 in NM-MT condition, and their cards routinely sell for a couple dollars less than a PSA 8 card. If I were ever to sell my collection, I’d never pay $20 to have my cards worth less than $40 graded-I’d give them raw to a reputable consigner, have them list them and never pay the grading fees.
Great video. Very insightful. I’ve never understood the idea of grading brand new perfect cards straight out of packs. But hey I like my money and Don’t want to give it to PSA for no good reason 😂
I see a lot of grading reveal videos where newer submitters send in a lot of base cards and they think they're gonna sell it for $30, but the reality is that it'll probably sell for $5 if it sells at all.
Yeah there's a lot of people jumping into grading 2 years late and haven't figured that out yet. There's also a lot of kids grading Pokemon cards for their PC.
Happy Holidays to you Chris and to everyone who watches this Channel, Great Content as always, Thank you now let me go into my Grandfather's Closet and see if I can find his 1914 Babe Ruth cards that would be a Great Christmas Present for me,Good Day to you All.
GREAT POINT on the SGC 3’s. How can they justify those 2 cards being graded the same. Can’t blame this on two different graders seeing things differently. SGC should be asked to explain and make a public disclosure on what is going on here. This example makes me NOT trust SGC with the grading of any of my cards
That Ruth being higher than a 1.5 is a complete joke. SGC should be embarrassed with that grade, seems like inside dealing to the submitter that a company like PSA is known for.
Regarding point one I’d reference your grading videos as a counter point, the success of grading is not based on individual cards but the batch as a whole. In every one of your submission reveal videos you have cards that gain and lose value but viewed as a whole, all of your submissions are a net positive. So in your 2023 Topps example someone could have sent in 100 cards , 50 may sell far below cost but the other 50 generated a profit.
Ruth SGC 3 vs Strawberry SGC 3 is a great topic and really goes to the heart of the hobby right now. I like graded cards more for authenticity and having them slabbed. I think the grade on every card should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Just look at every slabbed card in your collection and let’s say you cracked and sent them back to PSA, SGC or BGS. What are the odds that it would come back the same grade? 100%? 80%? 50%. If it isn’t 100% or atleast 90%, why should we value a 10 over a 9? Why should we value a 9 over an 8? Why should we value a 4 over a 3? I always go back to the 1989 UD Griffey card. The PSA 9 is about $200 and the PSA 10 is $2,000. That makes no sense that a 10 is 20x more when most of us couldn’t tell the difference between a 9 and 10 if we put them side by side. And how many of those Griffey PSA 10’s would come back a 10 if you cracked and resubmitted? Thats why my strategy is to buy the lowest grade of a card that has the best eye appeal to me. I have a Griffey PSA 9 that is perfectly centered. Why the heck should I pay $1,800 more for a 10 that looks the same? The ego crowd is what keeps the PSA 10 high end market alive. Some people like to pound their chest and show off their collection of high grade cards. You see it every year when RUclipsrs do their top 50, top 100 lists. They never pound their chest at a PSA 9 $50 card, they only pound their chest at the high grades. That’s why grading is a big mirage and the people who play that game are more about satisfying their ego.
Why buy a Rolex over a Fake, why buy a diamond over a synthetic diamond? Why do you care if it is Authentic or not, if you are the only one who enjoys it? If we didn't assign a value to things, then nothing would have value. Some people pound their chests bragging about their PSA 10's. Some people pound their chests talking about how they are so much smarter they are than everyone else, and post long comments on RUclips about it.
Great comment its always been eye appeal for me those cards have the real value, I can't tell you how many 9.5 or 10s can see problems with them and the person says it still got that grade and it's low pop... ect, ect...
I've been thinking this for years. Got some vintage graded by SGC during the pandemic and was like, "You're telling me there are FOURTEEN grades higher than this 3.5?!" The subjectivity is unavoidable and makes it really frustrating.
It’s not like those psa 10 cards dropped 95% that’s genuinely around what they were worth to begin with. besides Wander Franco I doubt any thing significantly made the price on them drop.
I agree with you Chris. Why are collectors/dealers sending in cards like Trout base cards? Better question is why are they trying to sell them? Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
I have never done the grading thing and have done extremely well, there is smoke and mirrors going on with a BIG portion of the hobby be mindful for the ones that are the true hobbyists out there, it will be fruitful in the long term when this falls apart.
I believe that the standards for an ultra modern vs modern vs 70s-80s vs pre war era cards are all different. A card that has survived 100+ years can get away w more defects vs a card that is only 30 yrs old. Should it work that way? Prob not... but I think thats how they justify certain pre war grades. Ive slowed down on grading as well but I still submit low numbered parallels of key rookies or awesome 90s inserts. I do agree that the junk slab era is here and its in full force. Things need to slow down or its going to not get better in the near future.
I just grabbed two prospect cards. 1st Bowman chrome rookie auto /25 and /50. Both were BGS 9.5. $10 total including taxes and shipping. The seller paid a minimum of $36 just to grade them
Just like the late 80s-early 90s is forever known as the "Junk Wax Era" I think current times will be known as the "Junk Slab Era". Most of these cards (that aren't PC cards people want in slabs) will end up junk Slab "Mystery Boxes" at Walmart or being peddled on Whatnot.
I strictly PC Pete Alonso, focusing on Bowman Paper rainbows(I know right?!) but have around 670 PSA slabs, some with old PSA labels taped to the back from crack outs, up to 3 grades up or down some of them. Honestly: To hell with the numbers, I just want better consistency, and maybe bulk deals if all the cards fit in your registry. I don’t resell so take that for what it is. Merry Christmas to you and yours Chris. Cheers.
The end of the video really hit me here. One thing we have to remember is that this entire grading process is a human process. Any human process that exists brings a set of factors specific to human intervention... it sucks to say but because of this there is non imperical components that cannot be ignored, nor should they be.
SCV Sports Cards is a fine up and coming RUclipsr who first brought up the differences between vintage grades and modern grades weeks ago and how grading them the same doesn't make sense and got me thinking as well. As far as grading goes, I asked a few months ago a dozen submitting companies what the percentage should be of cards that should be graded and the median number is 25%. Simply put, we are all addicts of grading.
I appreciate the video and thoughts on grading, although I think the direct comparison between the 1983 Strawberry and the Ruth cards are a little over simplified. The grading scale reminds me of a pyramid, where at the top of the scale and pyramid, there are a narrow set of conditions that only a few cards will qualify for. As the scale and pyramid go down, those conditions expand and the range of cards that qualify for those lower grades similarly expand. In that light, while there will be subtle differences between multiple examples of the same card that are graded 10, the differences can be much more varied at the lower grades. There's also the factor that a card's total grade is limited by it's lowest grade attribute. So for whatever the reason the Strawberry grades so low, despite all of its very clear strong points (centering, corners, etc.), the overall grade is limited by that one factor that is holding it down, which is likely a wrinkle or perhaps toning. Meanwhile, the Ruth card has many obvious flaws, and even if it is a generous grade, the total package fits within that lower tier of the pyramid. Unfortunately, thanks to whatever the limiting factor is for the Strawberry, that's where it resides, too, on the technical side of things. Which is to say - the lower cards go on the TECHNICAL side, there are going to be a much wider range for EYE APPEAL. That is the impetus for the hobby phrase, "buy the card, not the holder." And the grade for the Strawberry highlights just how useful grading can be. As the two most respected grading companies both found some defect for the card to merit a low grade, there is clearly something going on with that card. And I believe that if that card were listed raw on eBay, many potential buyers would be interested as it appears to be a great candidate for grading at a 10. And yet, something is not only preventing that, but dropping the grade substantially. In this way, the system works: a third party has found some defect on the card and potential buyers can make an educated decision on whether or not to buy. Clearly this card has exceptional eye appeal for the technical grade and it looks like a very nice card. But just a clearly, there's something wrong. Comparing the Ruth and the Strawberry is a little bit instructive on grading, but it's also not fair to consider it a direct comparison because of the different issues. If we were to take the three PSA 10 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle cards in existence, I'm sure we would find differences in centering, etc. and some of us may prefer one over another, while others have different opinions on them. And if we took a sample of PSA 3 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles, we would find a much larger range of problems with the cards, but there would certainly be a number of them that look really good for the grade, while others would be considered a "generous" grade. I think this is a strength of the grading scales and the grading system, not a weakness. We all can see what the technical grade is for a card and then it's up to the buyer to make an educated decision on how much they are willing to spend, based on the grade but also on their opinion of it's eye appeal. PSA and SGC did their jobs on the Strawberry, and I have to think they got it right, based on their respective scales.
I understand the argument between raw or naked cards vs graded. Obviously you should just collect what you love - graded or not. I came back to the hobby a years ago and bought into the whole ripping / flipping craze and had intended to send 100s of cards to PSA for grading. Thankfully they suspended submissions for a long time and I came to my senses. I decided that for me - what I wanted to collect was a very focused Top 100 players (my own list) of all-time - 1 card per player and that I would buy vintage SGC graded cards as the slabs were cheaper than PSA and also to slow me down as there aren’t as many of them out there! I buy graded because of concerns over trimming and alterations (although I know this can still be an issue with graded cards it is greatly diminished) and also it fairly insures that the card will arrive unbent and uncreased. And Chris here helped me kickoff this new direction in my collecting buy purchasing my then collection of only graded cards (lots of multiples as I had planned to resell)!!! Chris was a pleasure to work with and would not hesitate to work with again!!
Thanks man, you just ruined my gig....I have been buying these cheap graded cards for a while now when other guys are getting everyone graded......LOL.
Grading companies claim they have the same standards regardless of year/ set. But there’s clearly a different standard! Factory rough cut edges on vintage are not graded down by PSA but if a modern card were a rough cut it would be crushed! I think BGS/ BVG was a good thought in theory…. Not well executed but the right thought. Modern cards getting low grades should not happen. I bought a collection and it had a 2011 baseball card in a PSA 2, meanwhile I have Mickey mantle cards in PSA 2 grades that are properly graded with rounded corners and creases. I think most grading companies don’t look at their posted standards but they use the eye test too much and compare cards to each other when grading as opposed to looking at the standards for each card. I read the PSA and SGC standards for what they define as a 2…. The standards are very low however I’ve seen cards grade a 1.5 when by their posted standards should be. 2.5-3
I have started using AGS which uses AI Computer and Lazer scanning grading. No more human grading. If a Lazer says it's a 10 it is! No more subjective grading. PSA 6 should be crossed everytime!
Someone from SGC should come out and explain to the hobby community why such a big difference between the Babe Ruth SGC 3 and the Strawberry SGC 3 card. If the Strawberry card is truely a SGC 3, then how in the world does the Babe Ruth card gets a SGC 3? The Babe Ruth card looks like a SGC 1 card at best.
But who cares? Nobody is forced to buy that Ruth card regardless of some rando's grade. Whether it's a 3, a 10 or a 1. Likewise, if someone feels the Strawbarry card is undergraded, that person is free to buy that card and treasure it as if it were a 10.
The SGC 3 Ruth is clearly a 1 or 2 at best just looking at it from a picture. SGC is motivated to give this card as high a grade as they think they can to encourage more submissions and generate more hype with their slab in all the associated pictures. The point comparing the Strawberry is spot-on.
The takeaway is that when the grade could be free advertising for the grading company (a "big" card), the grading company will eek out every bit of numeric value possible. PSA in particular benefits from upcharging in cases where the actual grade surpasses the estimated grade at submission. For big cards, the bigger the more attention the card will garnish and more eyes on the slab.
Cool I think both PSA and SGC have had some sort of bulk modern deal going on now or in the past month or two. To go along with a product release. Bowman Chrome and bowman draft . I'm not sure why someone would grade a 1 to 2 dollar card anymore. Maybe set or player registery? The card market is out of wack for sure
Yeah the only reason I ever grade is when I want something slabbed cause I know I’ll keep it forever. Nobody could ever convince me that there is a real reason a 10 grade is 10-to-30X more valuable than a 9 grade…it is a bubble with no true facts backing it up.
It would be interesting to do that same search but only look at BIN/BO and see how low/bad the sales are. As you scrolled it seemed all the sales were from auctions which with the lack of scarcity will get all those low sales. Also same search but doing SGC 10s even at $15 is 😢 Happy Holidays and can’t wait to see what you do in ‘24!
Two thoughts. 1. I disagree with the notion that a majority of these ultra modern cards are being submitted by newer hobby people. I actually think it’s the other way around. So many of those cards you were looking at I am sure we’re subbed as part of massive orders by large subbers who play the volume game. A lot of those slabs that sell for $2-10 on eBay will be sold for 2-3 times that in person at shows. 2. Graders grade different sets on different curves. The ruth objectively is in worse condition but they clearly grade pre war, ultra rare vintage on a more lenient curve and give certain flaws a pass.
Good informative video and it makes me think that as a fan I just need to spend and extra five or six bucks and get some graded cards of my favorite players!
you can also look at gemrate, put in each modern players rookie year and see just how many "rookie" cards for each there are versus say older cards (pre-2000) where there are only 1 or 2 or 3 rookie cards . . . this is making the junk wax era look like dreamland.
If PSA didn’t require a minimum number of cards for bulk submissions, these numbers would probably be lower. Also, people think they’re going to start slab-flipping businesses. They aren’t. They’ll obviously fail because they’re grading $1 bulk. They’re probably submitting stuff right around release, thinking they’ll get cards back fast enough, but PSA is overrun by submissions. People just don’t know what they’re getting into.
I can get a lot of cards i want , already graded, for less than the grading fee...why buy a pack or box to chase a card when u can buy it graded for alot cheaper
I know everyone loves to hate on the grading cards. I've been collecting cards for 30+ years, and grading definitely has it's drawbacks... but it does make cards MUCH easier to sell, especially online when you can't handle the card personally. I can't tell you how many raw cards I've purchased that look flawless in the pictures only to arrive and have bent corners or even a crease in the card.
Doesn't one of the consigner auctions keep any slabs that don't sell? How big of a market are we talking about concerning this scam? I will sell slabs to just get them off my "inventory". Sometimes, just best to move on. Thanks and Merry Christmas!
For years, I believed that grading was reserved for the "best of the best"--super high quality pre-war/vintage, and HUGE patch auto type cards. The feeling now that everything needs to be graded actually makes me shy away a bit from graded cards; plus they take up a ton of room. I do like them, but pick my spots with them for sure. A card in a nice Card Saver 1 looks as nice as a graded card in many instances.
Grading needs to be done by computer.....i sent psa 2 christian pache topps inception autos..both are perfect. 1 got a 10. The other got a 4.. fire the humans, and let computers do the grading.
That's the problem, like tog said for yourself, it's not going to change anything for you. 99% of people don't like it but everyone continues to grade the cards so it's not hurting the grading companies, so why would they change
I think grading is card dependent. Like we should have different tolerance for corner/edge if it's a paper card vs it's a chrome/plastic card. Yeah that PSA 3 is too harsh for some almost invisible issues.
You totally nailed it…. “What are we really doing here?” Imagine showing the Strawberry and Ruth side by side comparison to someone not in our hobby and trying to explain or make excuses for why or how they are the same grade. It seems to me that most of our hobby realizes that the hobby has lost its way yet we just continue to drift further and further out. It’s like this big ship that can’t be turned. Great observations as always. Merry Christmas and all the best, Ronnie
Unfortunately the key sentence is not “What are we really doing here?” but the next one: “Not that I’m going to change my habits or anything, but…”
That’s how it’s gotten to this point.
Awesome video Chris very good information. I think the problem with grading is everyone has about 5 cards that should be graded that actually make sense to grade but you need at least 20 cards I believe to hit the bulk price point.. so we end up sending 15 cards in every order that makes no sense to be grading in the first place. I’m with you though I’m grading a lot less cards now. If the raw value is under $40 it makes no sense to be grading it.
Great point
Also eBay is taking 13% of those low sale prices
Hey Chris. I made a video about the grade this Ruth card received. A lot of the comments I got back was- Who cares about the grade. I think there’s a deeper issue with grading, as you said but a lot of collectors don’t want to call out an overgraded card, they only care about under graded.
It's absolutely incredible how one informative video and one darn savvy comment makes you say "Oh. My. Gosh. Aaaand there it is." Thank you to you BOTH! Seriously!
The beautiful thing about free markets is that they are exactly that...free. When there is a market out of balance, e.g. the difference between graded and ungraded prices, the market will correct it and people will submit more ungraded cards. Because there are independent actors, the market will over-correct. As an investor or collector, you have to know what to do in each of the market timelines, the valley, the rise, the peak, and the fall. This seems like a great time to get cheap graded cards if that is your thing, people will eventually submit less the cycle will again happen. As far as the 2nd point, its quite valid, but everyone knows vintage is a different ball game and relative compared to modern and ultra-modern. The good thing is grades are usually pretty relative to cards of that era. Also as printing improves and with the proliferation of numbered cards, grading becomes more and more silly in my opinion.
Also wanted to add, as someone who works in finance for a living, its a lot of fun to see broader market economics play out in the sports card world, and really in any market besides traditional finance. Also for 99.9% of us, just buy the cards you like and enjoy it, don't let chasing making money ruin a good hobby.
Boy would I love to hear Peter from SGC explain why these two cards are the same grade
Luckily I learned this before I started sending my cards in....i just buy the cards i want already graded and 90% of the time I'm paying well under what I would have to pay for grading myself.
I didn't realize that my comment would have such a profound effect on you, Chris! When I saw that Strawberry card, it was the first thing I thought of when I remembered that the Ruth card had also been graded a 3 by the same company.
I mean it is a valid point.
I think I figured it out. The grader saw 100 of those Ruth cards and they were all 1’s and 2’s this one was better so he gave it a 3 in context of that card. Then he saw 100 of these strawberry ones and this one was the worst (thanks to the crease) so he wanted to label it a 3 to show it was the worst in context of the card. Now - when you are shopping for cards it’s important to consider the era , type of card etc . When comparing across generations or even different sets , the grading house kind of crumbles . For example , certain sets may be very rare to have all 4 sharp corners so they let 3 sharp corners get a ten. Other sets it’s very common to have all 4 sharp corners so never would 3 sharp corners get a ten. Now back to the point y’all are making…. Great point and it’s busted , but this is the answer , the context matters and cards need to be compared to each other and others of that set.
Being kinda cynical on the subject, I'll wonder about a few things: is it favoritism towards certain submitters? Like Dr. Frankenstein, create something (extreme high dollar markets) we don't need or basically create chaos and confuse people into $$ signs. It's a mess and it draws a crowd.
Thank you! That's why it takes forever to get your cards back. People sending in cards that should never be graded. Amen to the Ruth/Strawberry comparison.
so true
4:50 people do stupid stuff… this is why.
There’s a LOT of cards/people!
Long Run, grading a card BARLEY. Makes sense to me anyway.
•Teach yourself how to grade cards
•Buy vintage cards you like.
Win 🎉🎄👍
Chris you have enough followers and are highly respected in the hobby where you should reach out to SGC and ask them to come on your channel and give your audience a professional explanation of how those 2 cards got the same grade. I presume rhey wouldn't but you reaching out to them would at least show us they're willing to justify there grades or show us they know they were wrong. In both!
Not knocking Chris at all, great channel and I’m sure he’s a great dude, but there’s a zero percent chance SGC acknowledges him if he reaches out to them with “only” 63K subscribers. I love SGC, but you’re going to have to have at least a couple million subscribers for any grading company to even consider explaining themselves when it comes to grades. The response he would get is “you can view our grading scale on our website”
@@buiesportscards5122talk to Scottie B Cards. He has around 25k followers and just had a few videos with the head of CGC to walk through their process.
@@buiesportscards5122 Does any hobby related youtube channel have millions of subscribers? And many of those 20k subscriber channels are sponsored by SGC, so I think they'd care.
I think this is a good idea. The SGC CEO does those videos all the time acting like they're a "transparency/hobby first" company. Show us, or stfu.
@@kevinheckeler they did this video with Sports Card Investor a bit ago I thought was fairly well done: ruclips.net/video/_YNOs6Xu80w/видео.htmlsi=MSaYA1-WQXN43y7_
Grading companies should know, we are Grading them as well. 😎
Amen - and they are failing miserably and maintain our confidence
@@Goobastank Realtiy says different. Did you miss the beggining of the video where it shows the big increase in total cards graded.
It’s almost like vintage cards are on a whole different grading scale
Thanks as always, Chris! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and everyone watching!
Great video Chris. The second point is why, after collecting for most of my young life, I have no interest in getting back in. It's completely ridiculous the inconsistencies and, what I see as, the lack of credibility and accountability in these grading companies. It all looks too expensive to let the value of my cards be determined by some random person that might be having a bad day or whatever. I'd much rather watch content like your and other people spend hundreds or thousands on these cards with a 1% chance of ever getting close to their money back. Merry Christmas!
Wishing you and your family a happy Christmas and a prosperous 2024. Thanks for your brilliant vids.
Chris - Curious if you would be open to sharing some video stats for the year. I'd loved to know if your channel views are trending up or down, or what. It might shed some great insights into interest in the hobby.
Yeah I was planning on doing that but it will probably be in a month or so
I feel like grading companies sometimes grade cards with consideration to their age and era. With that said, that Ruth with that paper loss is a 1 on any other day. And am invisible print dot or wrinkle on that Strawberry should be a 7 or 8...if we're talking about eye appeal vs. whatever PSA and SGC considered.
2:40 WOW Thank you for your straight reporting. You are the conscience of card collecting community. Your Ruth/Strawberry comparison drives the point home like nothing other.
If you go on psa’s site they use a 52 mantle to show each card grade 1-10. So it doesn’t make sense they would grade vintage cards differently when they use a psa 8 mantle to show what any psa should look like.
I wonder if the graders ever look at that page sometimes. They seem to forget it frequently. Not even sure that is the scale anymore
I instantly like your videos bc you never ask. And bc the content is awesome.
Great video as usual. My policy on grading is that if the card won’t sell for at least $50 graded, I will just try to sell raw.
Best sports card content on the tube! Looking forward to another great year of videos I truly look forward to. Happy holidays.
With the grading of the Strawberry/Ruth; I feel like grading companies give this type of grades that are comparable to other cards in there set.
For example the Daryl Strawberry card in the condition that it was doesn’t compare to a 10 of that same set due to xyz but if you compare the Ruth card to other cards graded in that set, it comes out to a 3 since other cards graded in that set are in bad condition.
This is the only reason I could come up with in terms of why that scenario happened with the Strawberry and Ruth.
Well said! Additionally, many people forget that grades are based on technical standards, not eye-appeal. A tiny scratch or wrinkle usually drops the grade to a 3, same with paper loss. Collectors will say, not all PSA 3s are equal, and condition within lower grades can vary greatly.
Given PSA doesn't give the grade of 9.5, and it is often difficult to discern a 10 from a 9, I think the entire system of numerical grades should be shifted up.
To me, mint = perfect = 10 = no flaws = 50/50. Create Mint- = 9.5 = 1 flaw.
Grading has become the new money flex. There was a dude in my LCS a few months ago putting together a bulk order and we got to talking. What struck me was the comment (paraphrased) "Real collectors get their cards graded." It's not the first time I've heard a similar sentiment. There seems to be an elitist move among some in the hobby to gatekeep and separate "casuals" from the "REAL collectors" and that just makes me want to puke. Don't be that guy, y'all.
Breakers are on RUclips calling PSA the "upgrade shop". Take your $3 card, send it to PSA and make double your cost. As you said, this doesn't make sense. There's no reason to send cheap cards to PSA but greed is driving people. It's ridiculous to send junk cards to PSA.
If you zoom out and look at the uptick in items for sale not only is there a massive in Flux of new sellers and people selling bit the economic factors in play are showing that more and more people are hurting for cash. The feds effects of the quickest rate of hikes are taking longer to impact people. The amount of people starting to get behind on bills and in debt are through the roof. People are trying to sell more and more.
This could be a time in the industry similar to previous housing market surplus times. Smart knowledgeable people in the industry can use this time to buy cards that will be worth $$ again in the future for cheap
Great video! My theory is these are new people coming into the grading space. They search on RUclips something like "how to make money grading cards" and get bombarded with videos from 2 and 3 years ago when you could grade a base card and still make money. Your video will certainly save a few people from falling down that hole. Happy Holidays Chris!
Thanks for another great video, Chris. And Merry Christmas to you and your family hope all is well.
I think you have a really good point. Somewhere down the line it has to come back and bite the grading companies. There has to be more information than just a number. Your thoughts?
I would like to see grader notes or something similar in the future. PSA has stated this is in the works.
Happy holidays, Chris. Thanks for all the great videos. May 2024 shine brightly upon you and your family!
Thx for all your videos over the past year Chris! Best card site on You tube. Hope and your family have a great holiday!
I agree. No music, no drama.
happy holidays, chris, to your family and you.
I agree that years ago submitting cards to be graded and sell for a profit due to the grade made sense. Who still remembers $6 grading fee for bulk? It seems like eons ago but in reality maybe 6-7 years ago? Ultra-modern submitters are almost always new to the hobby. Collectors who have been in the hobby for a long time are likely to focus on vintage stuff for submission, particularly pre-panini cards, unless it’s super rare or valuable modern cards.
I myself have stopped using PSA and as a recreational dealer buy and flip raw cards to counter the high grading fees and inconsistent PSA grading of recent years. I still use PSA on and off for high value cards ($500+ raw), but refrain from bulk submission of cards as much as possible unless it’s for PC.
The increase in grading submissions may be partially attributed to holiday specials offered by PSA for the holiday season or the recent bulk TCG $15 special. With card values across all sports declining since the pandemic highs, it makes little sense to grade something and 6 months later the raw and graded value of the card has dropped significantly.
Sorry for the long rant. Happy holidays to all and happy collecting!
I too have the same philosophy. I’ve stopped subbing cards. Not enough gain to offset the cost. Bonkers that people are still spending $ on this especially with ultra modern where no one can decipher between a 9 vs 10 with the naked eye
Happy holidays Chris. I enjoy your shows on RUclips. Hope you continue to promote the hobby.🎄
This just shows why “eye appeal” is becoming so much more important than the grade you get. For collecting at least. Maybe eye appeal will become king selling too in the future, since grades seem so subjective.
This is an interesting debate on eye appeal vs the grade. I think collectors gravitate to eye appeal as I lean in this corner. But when I go to shows and see dealers buying cards, they rarely look at the card and the deal is solely predicated on the grade. I remember selling some doubles a few years ago as they were all PSA 9 cards. The dealer literally looked up comps for the PSA 9, and didn’t inspect the card for centering. Thats why I wonder sometimes if we overanalyze these cards because the majority of the hobby still cares about the grade over eye appeal?
I'm a big eye appeal guy too. This grading crap is kinda like the saying, "...Can't see the forest through the trees."😂
Another great video with another great point about about grading! I used to buy so many raw cards and boxes to open up but then in the last year I just bought the players I wanted graded 9.5-10s for less than $20 each some less than $10 each! Because I had the same conclusion that the grading cost more than my total cost to buy the card and I didn’t have to pay for a membership to any grading company or any other fees! Just what it cost to get the card in my hands! So if I can get a pretty good player that’s got a chance of having a good career and being a HOFER then I pay $20 for a 10 all day! Buy 2-3 10s for the cost of a box of cards at Walmart and pull S**t out or have the 2-3 10s of what you hope to pull!! No brained for me!
Newbies have the idea that PSA 10 equals riches, even for ultra-modern stars that are worth a dollar raw. When there are so many copies of a card in a PSA 10 slab that they sell for a couple bucks, something is seriously astray. Junk slabs indeed.
Sir i consider myself a investor / collector and i will not even consider buying raw. Also if you want my money i need psa. Must be psa 10 as well what i like best is that 50 percent of my purchases are under grading cost so it makes complete sense. Trying to sell a raw card is like trying to sell a snow blower. So only way to sell your card is to grade results in having to grade your card or sitting on it. I love it please everyone keep grading! PSA
I think that it simply just confirms your card is authentic, as we all know as well the grade may vary from one employee to another also they claim to put more focus on the grading scale getting more strict, the Ruth was graded years ago.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, Chris. You da man and you’re also my day-1 card content creator…I do remember certain grading companies offering $9-10 specials on this year’s cards, but thst doesn’t explain away the low-dollar EBay sales you cite here…Also appreciate you contemplating the grading space. Tis a peculiar beast for sure.
Oh yeah, and like I mentioned, half of PSA’s subs these days are TCG (a major growth),, so that plays into this too
Merry Christmas to you and your family, Chris 🎄 Your perspective on topics like this is very much appreciated from this particular Sewall-igan, and I’m sure all the others as well.
While one criteria may be to grade all cards equally despite the year/ star of the card.
While another thought is in that Ruth series, the card is a 3 compared to the surviving cards from that set. While the 1980's Strawberry card is a 3 because most of the surviving cards are in as good shape or better. This happens with coins a lot. The are not graded equally, an older key coin gets more leeway in grading as compared to the existing examples.
I’m a weekly buyer from one of the channel’s sponsors for cards from 1969-1975 in NM-MT condition, and their cards routinely sell for a couple dollars less than a PSA 8 card. If I were ever to sell my collection, I’d never pay $20 to have my cards worth less than $40 graded-I’d give them raw to a reputable consigner, have them list them and never pay the grading fees.
Happy Holidays Chris! Love your vids and thank you for the content. Here's to a great 2024!
Your thoughts and comments are always the best. Merry Christmas to you too.
Great video. Very insightful. I’ve never understood the idea of grading brand new perfect cards straight out of packs. But hey I like my money and Don’t want to give it to PSA for no good reason 😂
Vintage cards need grading for authentication. Ultra modern 10s are status symbols
@@sp123 not sure why. They are easier to get than Covid 😂 you don’t need to be a big shot to open a pack and get 10’s. It’s more likely than not.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 😊🇨🇦✌️ more hockey 😂
I see a lot of grading reveal videos where newer submitters send in a lot of base cards and they think they're gonna sell it for $30, but the reality is that it'll probably sell for $5 if it sells at all.
Yeah there's a lot of people jumping into grading 2 years late and haven't figured that out yet.
There's also a lot of kids grading Pokemon cards for their PC.
10000000 cards on ebay. only 2000-4000 hardcore buyers
Happy Holidays to you Chris and to everyone who watches this Channel, Great Content as always, Thank you now let me go into my Grandfather's Closet and see if I can find his 1914 Babe Ruth cards that would be a Great Christmas Present for me,Good Day to you All.
GREAT POINT on the SGC 3’s.
How can they justify those 2 cards being graded the same. Can’t blame this on two different graders seeing things differently.
SGC should be asked to explain and make a public disclosure on what is going on here. This example makes me NOT trust SGC with the grading of any of my cards
That Ruth being higher than a 1.5 is a complete joke. SGC should be embarrassed with that grade, seems like inside dealing to the submitter that a company like PSA is known for.
Regarding point one I’d reference your grading videos as a counter point, the success of grading is not based on individual cards but the batch as a whole. In every one of your submission reveal videos you have cards that gain and lose value but viewed as a whole, all of your submissions are a net positive. So in your 2023 Topps example someone could have sent in 100 cards , 50 may sell far below cost but the other 50 generated a profit.
Merry Christmas to you and your family Chris!! Great points from this episode.
Ruth SGC 3 vs Strawberry SGC 3 is a great topic and really goes to the heart of the hobby right now.
I like graded cards more for authenticity and having them slabbed. I think the grade on every card should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Just look at every slabbed card in your collection and let’s say you cracked and sent them back to PSA, SGC or BGS. What are the odds that it would come back the same grade? 100%? 80%? 50%. If it isn’t 100% or atleast 90%, why should we value a 10 over a 9? Why should we value a 9 over an 8? Why should we value a 4 over a 3?
I always go back to the 1989 UD Griffey card. The PSA 9 is about $200 and the PSA 10 is $2,000. That makes no sense that a 10 is 20x more when most of us couldn’t tell the difference between a 9 and 10 if we put them side by side. And how many of those Griffey PSA 10’s would come back a 10 if you cracked and resubmitted?
Thats why my strategy is to buy the lowest grade of a card that has the best eye appeal to me. I have a Griffey PSA 9 that is perfectly centered. Why the heck should I pay $1,800 more for a 10 that looks the same?
The ego crowd is what keeps the PSA 10 high end market alive. Some people like to pound their chest and show off their collection of high grade cards. You see it every year when RUclipsrs do their top 50, top 100 lists. They never pound their chest at a PSA 9 $50 card, they only pound their chest at the high grades. That’s why grading is a big mirage and the people who play that game are more about satisfying their ego.
Why buy a Rolex over a Fake, why buy a diamond over a synthetic diamond?
Why do you care if it is Authentic or not, if you are the only one who enjoys it?
If we didn't assign a value to things, then nothing would have value.
Some people pound their chests bragging about their PSA 10's. Some people pound their chests talking about how they are so much smarter they are than everyone else, and post long comments on RUclips about it.
grading is was and always has been a scam
Ive always said there is a market for no grading, just authentication.
Yep, just for authentication
Great comment its always been eye appeal for me those cards have the real value, I can't tell you how many 9.5 or 10s can see problems with them and the person says it still got that grade and it's low pop... ect, ect...
I've been thinking this for years. Got some vintage graded by SGC during the pandemic and was like, "You're telling me there are FOURTEEN grades higher than this 3.5?!" The subjectivity is unavoidable and makes it really frustrating.
It’s not like those psa 10 cards dropped 95% that’s genuinely around what they were worth to begin with. besides Wander Franco I doubt any thing significantly made the price on them drop.
I also think a lot of crap gets graded because people are reaching to make the bulk entry submission number
I agree with you Chris. Why are collectors/dealers sending in cards like Trout base cards? Better question is why are they trying to sell them? Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
I have never done the grading thing and have done extremely well, there is smoke and mirrors going on with a BIG portion of the hobby be mindful for the ones that are the true hobbyists out there, it will be fruitful in the long term when this falls apart.
I believe that the standards for an ultra modern vs modern vs 70s-80s vs pre war era cards are all different. A card that has survived 100+ years can get away w more defects vs a card that is only 30 yrs old. Should it work that way? Prob not... but I think thats how they justify certain pre war grades. Ive slowed down on grading as well but I still submit low numbered parallels of key rookies or awesome 90s inserts. I do agree that the junk slab era is here and its in full force. Things need to slow down or its going to not get better in the near future.
Have a Merry Christmas Chris!!
I just grabbed two prospect cards. 1st Bowman chrome rookie auto /25 and /50. Both were BGS 9.5. $10 total including taxes and shipping. The seller paid a minimum of $36 just to grade them
What will the bottom be for these cheap psa10s? Will there be dollar bins with nothing but psa 10s in 2 years from now?
Just like the late 80s-early 90s is forever known as the "Junk Wax Era" I think current times will be known as the "Junk Slab Era". Most of these cards (that aren't PC cards people want in slabs) will end up junk Slab "Mystery Boxes" at Walmart or being peddled on Whatnot.
I strictly PC Pete Alonso, focusing on Bowman Paper rainbows(I know right?!) but have around 670 PSA slabs, some with old PSA labels taped to the back from crack outs, up to 3 grades up or down some of them. Honestly: To hell with the numbers, I just want better consistency, and maybe bulk deals if all the cards fit in your registry. I don’t resell so take that for what it is. Merry Christmas to you and yours Chris. Cheers.
The end of the video really hit me here. One thing we have to remember is that this entire grading process is a human process. Any human process that exists brings a set of factors specific to human intervention... it sucks to say but because of this there is non imperical components that cannot be ignored, nor should they be.
SCV Sports Cards is a fine up and coming RUclipsr who first brought up the differences between vintage grades and modern grades weeks ago and how grading them the same doesn't make sense and got me thinking as well. As far as grading goes, I asked a few months ago a dozen submitting companies what the percentage should be of cards that should be graded and the median number is 25%. Simply put, we are all addicts of grading.
Rep the SCV! Nice, great comment
That strawberry Ruth comparison is hilariously sad
I appreciate the video and thoughts on grading, although I think the direct comparison between the 1983 Strawberry and the Ruth cards are a little over simplified.
The grading scale reminds me of a pyramid, where at the top of the scale and pyramid, there are a narrow set of conditions that only a few cards will qualify for. As the scale and pyramid go down, those conditions expand and the range of cards that qualify for those lower grades similarly expand. In that light, while there will be subtle differences between multiple examples of the same card that are graded 10, the differences can be much more varied at the lower grades.
There's also the factor that a card's total grade is limited by it's lowest grade attribute. So for whatever the reason the Strawberry grades so low, despite all of its very clear strong points (centering, corners, etc.), the overall grade is limited by that one factor that is holding it down, which is likely a wrinkle or perhaps toning.
Meanwhile, the Ruth card has many obvious flaws, and even if it is a generous grade, the total package fits within that lower tier of the pyramid. Unfortunately, thanks to whatever the limiting factor is for the Strawberry, that's where it resides, too, on the technical side of things.
Which is to say - the lower cards go on the TECHNICAL side, there are going to be a much wider range for EYE APPEAL. That is the impetus for the hobby phrase, "buy the card, not the holder."
And the grade for the Strawberry highlights just how useful grading can be. As the two most respected grading companies both found some defect for the card to merit a low grade, there is clearly something going on with that card. And I believe that if that card were listed raw on eBay, many potential buyers would be interested as it appears to be a great candidate for grading at a 10. And yet, something is not only preventing that, but dropping the grade substantially. In this way, the system works: a third party has found some defect on the card and potential buyers can make an educated decision on whether or not to buy. Clearly this card has exceptional eye appeal for the technical grade and it looks like a very nice card. But just a clearly, there's something wrong.
Comparing the Ruth and the Strawberry is a little bit instructive on grading, but it's also not fair to consider it a direct comparison because of the different issues. If we were to take the three PSA 10 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle cards in existence, I'm sure we would find differences in centering, etc. and some of us may prefer one over another, while others have different opinions on them. And if we took a sample of PSA 3 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles, we would find a much larger range of problems with the cards, but there would certainly be a number of them that look really good for the grade, while others would be considered a "generous" grade.
I think this is a strength of the grading scales and the grading system, not a weakness. We all can see what the technical grade is for a card and then it's up to the buyer to make an educated decision on how much they are willing to spend, based on the grade but also on their opinion of it's eye appeal.
PSA and SGC did their jobs on the Strawberry, and I have to think they got it right, based on their respective scales.
I understand the argument between raw or naked cards vs graded. Obviously you should just collect what you love - graded or not. I came back to the hobby a years ago and bought into the whole ripping / flipping craze and had intended to send 100s of cards to PSA for grading. Thankfully they suspended submissions for a long time and I came to my senses.
I decided that for me - what I wanted to collect was a very focused Top 100 players (my own list) of all-time - 1 card per player and that I would buy vintage SGC graded cards as the slabs were cheaper than PSA and also to slow me down as there aren’t as many of them out there! I buy graded because of concerns over trimming and alterations (although I know this can still be an issue with graded cards it is greatly diminished) and also it fairly insures that the card will arrive unbent and uncreased.
And Chris here helped me kickoff this new direction in my collecting buy purchasing my then collection of only graded cards (lots of multiples as I had planned to resell)!!! Chris was a pleasure to work with and would not hesitate to work with again!!
Facts
Thanks man, you just ruined my gig....I have been buying these cheap graded cards for a while now when other guys are getting everyone graded......LOL.
Just alot of new people in the hobby.
Grading companies claim they have the same standards regardless of year/ set. But there’s clearly a different standard! Factory rough cut edges on vintage are not graded down by PSA but if a modern card were a rough cut it would be crushed!
I think BGS/ BVG was a good thought in theory…. Not well executed but the right thought.
Modern cards getting low grades should not happen. I bought a collection and it had a 2011 baseball card in a PSA 2, meanwhile I have Mickey mantle cards in PSA 2 grades that are properly graded with rounded corners and creases.
I think most grading companies don’t look at their posted standards but they use the eye test too much and compare cards to each other when grading as opposed to looking at the standards for each card.
I read the PSA and SGC standards for what they define as a 2…. The standards are very low however I’ve seen cards grade a 1.5 when by their posted standards should be. 2.5-3
I have started using AGS which uses AI Computer and Lazer scanning grading. No more human grading. If a Lazer says it's a 10 it is! No more subjective grading. PSA 6 should be crossed everytime!
Someone from SGC should come out and explain to the hobby community why such a big difference between the Babe Ruth SGC 3 and the Strawberry SGC 3 card. If the Strawberry card is truely a SGC 3, then how in the world does the Babe Ruth card gets a SGC 3? The Babe Ruth card looks like a SGC 1 card at best.
But who cares?
Nobody is forced to buy that Ruth card regardless of some rando's grade. Whether it's a 3, a 10 or a 1.
Likewise, if someone feels the Strawbarry card is undergraded, that person is free to buy that card and treasure it as if it were a 10.
PSA's number graded increasing may also be an influx of cards from other companies as they gain stronger marketshare
The SGC 3 Ruth is clearly a 1 or 2 at best just looking at it from a picture. SGC is motivated to give this card as high a grade as they think they can to encourage more submissions and generate more hype with their slab in all the associated pictures. The point comparing the Strawberry is spot-on.
The takeaway is that when the grade could be free advertising for the grading company (a "big" card), the grading company will eek out every bit of numeric value possible. PSA in particular benefits from upcharging in cases where the actual grade surpasses the estimated grade at submission. For big cards, the bigger the more attention the card will garnish and more eyes on the slab.
Cool I think both PSA and SGC have had some sort of bulk modern deal going on now or in the past month or two. To go along with a product release. Bowman Chrome and bowman draft . I'm not sure why someone would grade a 1 to 2 dollar card anymore. Maybe set or player registery? The card market is out of wack for sure
Sometimes these cards sell well if they are the first PSA 10 to hit the market but then they immediately go down in price.
That Strawberry 3 is 'mint' in my mind...from the naked eye looks fine
Yeah the only reason I ever grade is when I want something slabbed cause I know I’ll keep it forever.
Nobody could ever convince me that there is a real reason a 10 grade is 10-to-30X more valuable than a 9 grade…it is a bubble with no true facts backing it up.
It would be interesting to do that same search but only look at BIN/BO and see how low/bad the sales are. As you scrolled it seemed all the sales were from auctions which with the lack of scarcity will get all those low sales.
Also same search but doing SGC 10s even at $15 is 😢
Happy Holidays and can’t wait to see what you do in ‘24!
Thing I thought about you going through those sold cards on ebay, from what I was they were all auctions.
Two thoughts. 1. I disagree with the notion that a majority of these ultra modern cards are being submitted by newer hobby people. I actually think it’s the other way around. So many of those cards you were looking at I am sure we’re subbed as part of massive orders by large subbers who play the volume game. A lot of those slabs that sell for $2-10 on eBay will be sold for 2-3 times that in person at shows. 2. Graders grade different sets on different curves. The ruth objectively is in worse condition but they clearly grade pre war, ultra rare vintage on a more lenient curve and give certain flaws a pass.
Interesting perspective
Good informative video and it makes me think that as a fan I just need to spend and extra five or six bucks and get some graded cards of my favorite players!
you can also look at gemrate, put in each modern players rookie year and see just how many "rookie" cards for each there are versus say older cards (pre-2000) where there are only 1 or 2 or 3 rookie cards . . . this is making the junk wax era look like dreamland.
If PSA didn’t require a minimum number of cards for bulk submissions, these numbers would probably be lower. Also, people think they’re going to start slab-flipping businesses. They aren’t. They’ll obviously fail because they’re grading $1 bulk. They’re probably submitting stuff right around release, thinking they’ll get cards back fast enough, but PSA is overrun by submissions. People just don’t know what they’re getting into.
Getting into stupidity.
I can get a lot of cards i want , already graded, for less than the grading fee...why buy a pack or box to chase a card when u can buy it graded for alot cheaper
I know everyone loves to hate on the grading cards. I've been collecting cards for 30+ years, and grading definitely has it's drawbacks... but it does make cards MUCH easier to sell, especially online when you can't handle the card personally. I can't tell you how many raw cards I've purchased that look flawless in the pictures only to arrive and have bent corners or even a crease in the card.
Doesn't one of the consigner auctions keep any slabs that don't sell? How big of a market are we talking about concerning this scam? I will sell slabs to just get them off my "inventory". Sometimes, just best to move on. Thanks and Merry Christmas!
For years, I believed that grading was reserved for the "best of the best"--super high quality pre-war/vintage, and HUGE patch auto type cards. The feeling now that everything needs to be graded actually makes me shy away a bit from graded cards; plus they take up a ton of room. I do like them, but pick my spots with them for sure. A card in a nice Card Saver 1 looks as nice as a graded card in many instances.
Grading needs to be done by computer.....i sent psa 2 christian pache topps inception autos..both are perfect. 1 got a 10. The other got a 4.. fire the humans, and let computers do the grading.
It's coming soon.
@@LeeCopus not soon enough.
If I worked for psa it wouldn’t cost much to just put gem mint 10 and it’s a case with a label
Video idea: can you break down financials of sending to Greg morris vs selling on your own eBay store
Interesting video idea...
Great Video As Always Chris. Here's To A Very Merry Christmas To You & Your Fam.
That's the problem, like tog said for yourself, it's not going to change anything for you. 99% of people don't like it but everyone continues to grade the cards so it's not hurting the grading companies, so why would they change
I think grading is card dependent. Like we should have different tolerance for corner/edge if it's a paper card vs it's a chrome/plastic card. Yeah that PSA 3 is too harsh for some almost invisible issues.