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made an enquiry about this heat shielding. ouch, 5 figures for a manifold and dump pipe by time its sent to oz and back!! ill stick to procoat and heat shielding/wrap with my non f1 budget lol
Darchem engineering in the UK have produced these exhaust blankets for many of the WRC and rallycross teams, this type of exhaust blanket is typical in the aerospace industry for shielding around the hot sections of jet engines. Great video again.
It's going OK so far, no temp issues. Random weld failure on one of the coils last time out for the SR though. First round Andre got stuck behind a TCR that had issues but didn't pull off on a safety car restart which was a shame. They live stream here and the commentators are actually not too bad: facebook.com/sierdcnz/ Next (3rd) race is on the 15th - Taz.
Very neat job with the heatshielding! On thermal barriers, I've seen plenty of use of thermal paints on the outsides of exhaust components, but don't recall ever seeing them used internally, where an additional benefit would seem to a potential reduction in thermal stress induced cracking as less heat into the parts should result in less expansion? It would also reduce the temperatures the external shielding would be dealing with? Yes, with 'radiators', they don't actually radiate heat but are transferring thermal energy from the internal fluid (water, oil, air) to the external fluid (air). The best cooler in the world at transferring thermal energy to the fins is useless if the air passing through it isn't able to remove that energy - it needs both mass and a temperature difference (delta). The former is by ensuring as much air as practical is passing through to provide the mass, and with thicker cores the delta is reduced as the air passed through the core - it's picking up heat energy and increasing it's temprature. There is, of course, also a gradient for the fluid being cooled. A double pass, dual core design should be more efficient, but design and packaging may be a problem. There are also questions about the end tank designs, as a poor design will tend to bias the flow towards/from some fins more than others, which will reduce the 'work' the lesser flowing fins are doing. Getting the end tanks right should see an even temperature drop across/down the cooler matrix. A related issue is where fan shrouds are used - they need to be designed so there is a minimal restriction in the areas not open for the fan(s), I've seen many very shallow shrouds which compound the problem by having large areas of the shroud closed of where the fan(s) aren't drawing air. As an aside, who supplies your Wiggins clamps, dealers don't seem to be that common?
@@needmoreboost6369 Good point! My interest is more to NA and supercharged, so question would still stand for those because there's no turbine to be potentially damaged.
The manifold is not a cheap piece of crap that's been fabricated out of old spoons and 'Knead It', nor is this anything new and unusual in the realms of heat management. It will be fine 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Sorry I should have said if it cracks which is possible. I've seen reputable brands have the occasional issues so it's a possibility especially in a high stress race application. Merely stating it would be a mofo if it did crack seeing as you can't just unwrap, repair then re wrap again.
Ahh yes, that is a completely different sentence in that case! Yes, it would be a mofo, but pretty much any shielding would be toast if your manifold cracked anyway so is what it is. Every single thing you do comes with a trade-off, that's part of the game. The trade-offs associated with this is worth it for us. For you and your setup? Perhaps not, that's up to you 😎 This is a common setup in professional motorsports too, worth noting. GT3, TCR etc etc - Taz.
Great video mates! Love the heat shielding. Looks like something I need for my Talon. Very little between one of my runners and the radiator core. Not sure what I can do without a company like that here but it's got my wheels turning. Good to hear on the radiator efficiency as I'm stuck between what seems like a good design by an aftermarket radiator that retains it's original size or the thick race line one by another company. So that has solved my dilemma there. With a radiator, condenser, and a large intercooler all screaming for airflow it gets hot when the ambients rise above 70*. I think switching out the massive bar and plate intercooler for something of less mass but more efficient in the tube & fin category will probably help a great deal as well as ducting it all. Cheers
i need something that reduces engine bay temperature a lot, so i need to insulate heat from turbo manifolds as much as possible. The options are, the coatings from Eastwood, flameproor by VHS, and cerakote coatings that are more expensive. Whats a best way without spending to much?
If u wanted to ceramic coat it as well and apply the shield would that be just as affective or would u be wasting time & money? Loving these videos fellas. Thanks frm from the UK 👊✌👍
Counterproductive. The ceramic fiber blanket under the stainless steel/inconel does the job. It withstands excess of 1400 degrees Celsius. Ceramic coating as an extra makes no sense. Check out Thermo Met in UK, those guys are also pros in these types of insulations.
I have 3 core 4 pass radiator on my sr20 in a s13 that's supposed to be for a rx3.. it works too well on the motorway at night it pulls temps back to less than 75deg, even under load also running -20 fittings
Is there way or a guide or ways to DIY "Heat shielding" a turbo manifold with stainless heat shielding? Or is this much more of a specialty job that is out of reach of most people fabrication wise, where you have to leave it to some one else?
Gas turbine engines give the most efficient thrust/mass flow at the highest differential temperature possible within the limits of the hot section materials, etc, so the hotter the better (sort of!) Although inconel 625 has a lower melting point than equivalent alloy stainless steel (say, 304 austenitic), its operating temperature can be closer to the melting point, and is a good 30 degrees celsius higher than the 304 operating temp, while maintaining its full strength. Also, inconel has a far better resistance to high temperature oxidation than stainless. That makes it a shoe-in for aviation use, where maintenance costs are a big factor in purchase and operation budgets. It's also significantly stronger in tension than 304 stainless. F1 engines also get as close as possible to thermodynamic limits, in the quest for maximum power, and that is one of many reasons inconel is used, rather than stainless in many components. Also, "expensive" is par for the course in that category! Sorry to go on!
@@robair67 great explanation. I offer an alternative. Inconel could be made thinner and lighter without cracking at ~12-15k RPM with the temps and pressures and vibration. I'm sure 321 SS would work fine at twice the thickness and weight. There might be some corrosive element in the fuel they use also. The real question is why not titanium?
@@kylegoldston I'm no expert but i think titanium parts can't handle as much vibration and will eventually start to crack. That's why important structual bolts are usually stainless. The resonant frequency being different makes it brittle at certain rpm.
@@badgermetal Titanium is fine with vibration, generally, but it is very notch sensitive. With the variety of bolts used in F1, they are generally machined, rather than rolled threads, thus shortening their life or limiting their potential applications when manufatured in Ti
No, you can remove it. Putting it back on is the hard part 😅 You either need the budget to replace it often if you feel the need to inspect your manifold often, or you wouldn't use this setup on your own application. It is used on the likes of TCR and GT3 cars etc too, this isn't some unusually complicated option for shielding at all - Taz.
@@badgermetal on tiny hairline cracks, smoke test is useless. On some weekend run what you brung racers, it is a difference of weldit now and finish a 10lap race or DNF due to cracked manifold.
@@hpa101 on hard core race teams, they have budget to replace exhaust manifold after an X amount of hours/runs. Cracked manifold is non issue. Stainless manifold, with or without heat shields, no matter what, will always crack eventually. On time attacks, you can just abandon the lap and try again. On a endurance event, it is a difference of finishing 1st or dnf. Hard line all the way on oil supply for turbo is ok in general, just be sure you check it for cracking after a few runs or so as this is trial and error. Long runner exhaust manifold usually create excesive vibration thats why a flex joint somewhere is a good idea. OE typically can get away with hard lines oil supply since the the engine vibrate together with the short cast solid manifold and tiny light weight turbo.
@Marion if your manifolds are cracking so often that you are inspecting them constantly and living in fear of that risk without any other excessive heat issues being bigger risks, then this setup is not for you for sure! - Taz.
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Taylor Ray recently built a new Vette drift car and had his whole exhaust done like this
made an enquiry about this heat shielding. ouch, 5 figures for a manifold and dump pipe by time its sent to oz and back!! ill stick to procoat and heat shielding/wrap with my non f1 budget lol
Darchem engineering in the UK have produced these exhaust blankets for many of the WRC and rallycross teams, this type of exhaust blanket is typical in the aerospace industry for shielding around the hot sections of jet engines.
Great video again.
sstubetechnology for WEC, F1 & WRC too
Have this style of heat shielding my car. Works really well at insulating engine bay temps.
Looking forward to seeing the progress you guys make this race season.
It's going OK so far, no temp issues. Random weld failure on one of the coils last time out for the SR though. First round Andre got stuck behind a TCR that had issues but didn't pull off on a safety car restart which was a shame.
They live stream here and the commentators are actually not too bad: facebook.com/sierdcnz/
Next (3rd) race is on the 15th - Taz.
@@hpa101 Many thanks
Pretty common modification here in Poland. Nice to see we are not that far after all.
Yes it is common for sure, great setup 😎 - Taz.
Very neat job with the heatshielding!
On thermal barriers, I've seen plenty of use of thermal paints on the outsides of exhaust components, but don't recall ever seeing them used internally, where an additional benefit would seem to a potential reduction in thermal stress induced cracking as less heat into the parts should result in less expansion? It would also reduce the temperatures the external shielding would be dealing with?
Yes, with 'radiators', they don't actually radiate heat but are transferring thermal energy from the internal fluid (water, oil, air) to the external fluid (air).
The best cooler in the world at transferring thermal energy to the fins is useless if the air passing through it isn't able to remove that energy - it needs both mass and a temperature difference (delta). The former is by ensuring as much air as practical is passing through to provide the mass, and with thicker cores the delta is reduced as the air passed through the core - it's picking up heat energy and increasing it's temprature. There is, of course, also a gradient for the fluid being cooled.
A double pass, dual core design should be more efficient, but design and packaging may be a problem.
There are also questions about the end tank designs, as a poor design will tend to bias the flow towards/from some fins more than others, which will reduce the 'work' the lesser flowing fins are doing. Getting the end tanks right should see an even temperature drop across/down the cooler matrix.
A related issue is where fan shrouds are used - they need to be designed so there is a minimal restriction in the areas not open for the fan(s), I've seen many very shallow shrouds which compound the problem by having large areas of the shroud closed of where the fan(s) aren't drawing air.
As an aside, who supplies your Wiggins clamps, dealers don't seem to be that common?
I think the risk of fod is why manifolds aren’t coated on the inside,the thermal expansion will still be a factor,ceramic coating’s can chip off
@@needmoreboost6369
Good point!
My interest is more to NA and supercharged, so question would still stand for those because there's no turbine to be potentially damaged.
@@gordowg1wg145 they usually do do the inside of pipes etc post turbo (if its turbo)
@@ZLAKLR20B
TY, 👍
To overkill Will be like
Ceramic coat+stainless molded+ "termotape"
Nice manifold its a Dream piece.
Yay for efficient cores!
It's gonna be fun when you crack an exhaust manifold
The manifold is not a cheap piece of crap that's been fabricated out of old spoons and 'Knead It', nor is this anything new and unusual in the realms of heat management. It will be fine 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Hey man, easy on the spoons & knead it lol
@@hpa101 Sorry I should have said if it cracks which is possible. I've seen reputable brands have the occasional issues so it's a possibility especially in a high stress race application. Merely stating it would be a mofo if it did crack seeing as you can't just unwrap, repair then re wrap again.
Ahh yes, that is a completely different sentence in that case!
Yes, it would be a mofo, but pretty much any shielding would be toast if your manifold cracked anyway so is what it is.
Every single thing you do comes with a trade-off, that's part of the game. The trade-offs associated with this is worth it for us. For you and your setup? Perhaps not, that's up to you 😎
This is a common setup in professional motorsports too, worth noting. GT3, TCR etc etc - Taz.
Great video mates! Love the heat shielding. Looks like something I need for my Talon. Very little between one of my runners and the radiator core. Not sure what I can do without a company like that here but it's got my wheels turning.
Good to hear on the radiator efficiency as I'm stuck between what seems like a good design by an aftermarket radiator that retains it's original size or the thick race line one by another company. So that has solved my dilemma there. With a radiator, condenser, and a large intercooler all screaming for airflow it gets hot when the ambients rise above 70*. I think switching out the massive bar and plate intercooler for something of less mass but more efficient in the tube & fin category will probably help a great deal as well as ducting it all. Cheers
United States? Headershield does this here.
@@SylasG Yeah, east coast. I'll have to look them up, thanks.
Swaintech has excellent coatings.
Not even close to as effective as these heat barriers for keeping heat in.
Can you tell more about that wiggins clamp, how is the hose side constructed? got the part numbers required?
Hmm, I was tossing up between ceramic and heatwrap for the downpipe and uppipe on my daily STI but this looks better.
This is fantastic shielding, but it can be rather expensive. All options have pros and cons really - Taz.
Wrap the lines in heat shield conduit?
Is this safe for cast manifolds? or is it just viable for tubular stainless?
thanks for the vids
Thanks for watching and commenting dude 😎
i need something that reduces engine bay temperature a lot, so i need to insulate heat from turbo manifolds as much as possible. The options are, the coatings from Eastwood, flameproor by VHS, and cerakote coatings that are more expensive. Whats a best way without spending to much?
May I ask what is the size of your water radiator and did PWR replacement fix previous overheating issues?
Where do you guys source those gold crimping bands for the AN fittings?
They are Brown & Miller Racing Solutions (BMRS) brand. Your local supplier for AN fittings will probably already have em. Hope that helps - Taz.
Any updates as to how well this heat shielding worked for you?
Yes, it's still awesome. Get a quote before you book anything in though - Taz.
If u wanted to ceramic coat it as well and apply the shield would that be just as affective or would u be wasting time & money? Loving these videos fellas. Thanks frm from the UK 👊✌👍
I've read it would be a waste of money to ceramic coat as well because the coating would probably start flaking off because of too much heat.
Counterproductive. The ceramic fiber blanket under the stainless steel/inconel does the job. It withstands excess of 1400 degrees Celsius. Ceramic coating as an extra makes no sense.
Check out Thermo Met in UK, those guys are also pros in these types of insulations.
I have 3 core 4 pass radiator on my sr20 in a s13 that's supposed to be for a rx3.. it works too well on the motorway at night it pulls temps back to less than 75deg, even under load also running -20 fittings
@ 3:47 and a weight penalty as well
Is there way or a guide or ways to DIY "Heat shielding" a turbo manifold with stainless heat shielding?
Or is this much more of a specialty job that is out of reach of most people fabrication wise, where you have to leave it to some one else?
Where is the g25-660
There must be a reason f1 used inconel. Was it a weight savings? Is the inconel lighter? Is gotta be more than price
Gas turbine engines give the most efficient thrust/mass flow at the highest differential temperature possible within the limits of the hot section materials, etc, so the hotter the better (sort of!) Although inconel 625 has a lower melting point than equivalent alloy stainless steel (say, 304 austenitic), its operating temperature can be closer to the melting point, and is a good 30 degrees celsius higher than the 304 operating temp, while maintaining its full strength. Also, inconel has a far better resistance to high temperature oxidation than stainless. That makes it a shoe-in for aviation use, where maintenance costs are a big factor in purchase and operation budgets. It's also significantly stronger in tension than 304 stainless. F1 engines also get as close as possible to thermodynamic limits, in the quest for maximum power, and that is one of many reasons inconel is used, rather than stainless in many components. Also, "expensive" is par for the course in that category! Sorry to go on!
@@robair67 great explanation. I offer an alternative. Inconel could be made thinner and lighter without cracking at ~12-15k RPM with the temps and pressures and vibration.
I'm sure 321 SS would work fine at twice the thickness and weight. There might be some corrosive element in the fuel they use also. The real question is why not titanium?
@@robair67 🐐
@@kylegoldston I'm no expert but i think titanium parts can't handle as much vibration and will eventually start to crack. That's why important structual bolts are usually stainless. The resonant frequency being different makes it brittle at certain rpm.
@@badgermetal Titanium is fine with vibration, generally, but it is very notch sensitive. With the variety of bolts used in F1, they are generally machined, rather than rolled threads, thus shortening their life or limiting their potential applications when manufatured in Ti
Doesn’t that make manifold inspection impossible?
Good point but a smoke test would probably be standard procedure on a racecar anyways to find leaks before they become catastrophic.
No, you can remove it. Putting it back on is the hard part 😅
You either need the budget to replace it often if you feel the need to inspect your manifold often, or you wouldn't use this setup on your own application. It is used on the likes of TCR and GT3 cars etc too, this isn't some unusually complicated option for shielding at all - Taz.
@@badgermetal on tiny hairline cracks, smoke test is useless. On some weekend run what you brung racers, it is a difference of weldit now and finish a 10lap race or DNF due to cracked manifold.
@@hpa101 on hard core race teams, they have budget to replace exhaust manifold after an X amount of hours/runs. Cracked manifold is non issue. Stainless manifold, with or without heat shields, no matter what, will always crack eventually. On time attacks, you can just abandon the lap and try again. On a endurance event, it is a difference of finishing 1st or dnf.
Hard line all the way on oil supply for turbo is ok in general, just be sure you check it for cracking after a few runs or so as this is trial and error. Long runner exhaust manifold usually create excesive vibration thats why a flex joint somewhere is a good idea. OE typically can get away with hard lines oil supply since the the engine vibrate together with the short cast solid manifold and tiny light weight turbo.
@Marion if your manifolds are cracking so often that you are inspecting them constantly and living in fear of that risk without any other excessive heat issues being bigger risks, then this setup is not for you for sure! - Taz.
They just "lost" the endless brakes 😳
I think someone is gonna put them on ebay to make a quick buck
Yeah we thought that to but they ended up being returned to sender then we got them the second try. Weird. - Taz.
Courier van stops reallly well now!