Camp McCarran Part 2: The Mystery of the Water Thief - Fallout New Vegas Lore
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Oxhorn i been subbed to u since camp mcforlon hope
This video made me thirsty
Liam Rogers for
Cocktails
Oxhorn
I got to say this game has got to be one of the tear jerking games i have ever played hope you are enjoying it to courier👍
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Thx : thx ox nice video like every fallout content from you
Some thing useful like : ehhhm help each other do good or not I guess ^^
Fun fact: If you get to the corpse and back without taking any damage, they'll comment on how you did just that, either remarking on how you're the quietest thing in existence, or the biggest badass ever.
You got that right 😎
Slashthekitsune high
Natasel yeah our costumers wouldn't stand that
Natasel is that a Kevin Costner post apocalyptic reference I see
Stewart Burne-Jones *(Courier precedes to carry Esteban’s body back to California)*
I seem to recall a conversation at the Grub n' Gulp where the water merchant mentions you can get all the water you want from lake Meed if you pump or haul it yourself.
If that's true then the crime was needless as water bramin could have been sent to the lake and only convenience was stopping them.
Also why didn't the Followers deal with the kings? Seems easier than provoking the NCR.
I always got the feeling Anderson was working on his own. Without the Followers even knowing about it so maybe. He just didn't have the juice on his own to negotiate that way.
Dazzle: Hey there, did you miss me?
Courier: Yeah I have this itch real bad....
Dazzle: Well now, aren't you the sweetest..
Courier: No...not in that way, i LITERALLY have this itch now
Debuff acquired : gonorrhoea
"You can ask around if you like, they'll all say the same thing..."
That sounds like a classic example of providing too much information, while trying not to provide any... =p
11:00 Incidentally, "show ourselves" and "pick off her limbs as they become exposed" costs 50 caps at Gommorah.
in my entire time playing new vegas i never got this quest, i thought the sharecroppers water problem was just vault 34.
Me too
If the NCR farms fail they can't feed the soldiers guarding the pipes. So the NCR abandons the water pumping project and there is no water for anyone so Westside looses their water either way.
true, also id argue that them being at war with raping pillaging slavers, it'd be more important to support the army responsible for so they can protect the freedom of every person on the west... be it that is including the freedom to drink water and live in westside anyway... but without a war maybe the crop farms would be an unnecessary thing to push when there are people in such poverty in the area
I can relate for Anderson. Seeing the people you care suffer thurst and starvation... Desperation is a powerfull motivation. Not that I approve what He's done, but I can understand why.
Lenia N. Ldzn That is asuming you sign with the NCR. But knowing the NCR, even then the west side should fight with teeth and claws for every drop of water and every grain of food, not mentioning the tax collectors.
? they are unequivocally in the right
@@stefanstoyanov7460I like the ncr more than the legion but ncr leadership makes me want to side with the battle cattle and let them use the ncr like a fleshlight.
@@secondarytrollaccount that's only slightly psychotic
When I played I still chose the NCR. Yes you’re right on the fact that they don’t own the lake but they made the piping, they guard the supply, they’re even the ones to ask for your help in finding Corporal White. I couldn’t side with Anderson because of the lie, it would be disgraceful for an ambitious NCR soldier with high exceptions to die over a “passion” dispute
I get it I do but idk I alway side with a independent Vegas and I believe they fixed the piping not made it which makes more sense
I killed Anderson. Not flat out, I always make it clear I would make sure Corporal White’s duties were finished, and he’s all “you leave me no choice.”
Justice for Corporal White. He was a good and ambitious soldier. He didn’t deserve to be killed for going above and beyond his duties just because Anderson valued independence of West Side over their survival and the life of a good man.
@@SydCar, The truth never hides forver as they say, even if you lie for Westside, if you chose the NCR ending, chances are they would find out about the siphoning anyway as it is implied that Westside eventually was made to join the Republic. If the NCR found out like that all of Westside would be punished for it, especially if you turned Anderson in, as they still continue to siphon without him. The truth about Corporal White's death would never come out and he'd be remembered as just someone who died over a hooker or you pin his murder on an entire gang that never met the guy. I don't enjoy killing Anderson but he leaves you with no choice, he said that he regretted killing Corporal White but then attacks you when you try to do the same thing and stop him by not accepting his bargain, he's a bit of a hypocrite in that regard.
@@rokkfel4999 Whether they made it or not, the NCR is the one working, maintaining, and protecting the pipe, so unless someone else can show some kind of proof of ownership for it, they rightly have final say on what happens with it. If Westside wants to use the pipe, they need to make proper arrangements for it with the NCR (or somehow take control by force and run the pipe themselves, but let's be realistic), otherwise they're leeching off the blood, sweat, and tears of others while also destroying any honest claim they have to being independent. After all, how can they say they're independent if they depend on the NCR to survive without giving them anything in return? If they could find some other way to get water from the lake, then more power to them because the actual water is theirs as much as it is anyone else's, but this seems kind of like the post-apocalyptic equivalent stealing your neighbor's wifi because you can't afford your own. You might actually need good wifi to function in the world (especially if you're working from home right now), but you aren't automatically entitled to the fruit of someone else's labor just because you need it. Obviously water is of much more dire importance than wifi, but literally everything is more dire in the wasteland and the NCR's needs are more dire by the same magnitude.
@@metanightmare4454 Very well said. That's absolutely right
Mean Sonofawhaaaa? I always though that his speech impediment was because they cut off his lips rather than his tongue...that's what I get for speed clicking through dialogue.
Wish there was a way for Westside to get water without having to neglect the Sharecrop, I mean it's a community and all that found a way to survive before the pipes I'm sure it'll still be there.
I had hoped that since we got Bill Ronte back to tip top shape he could set up another water pipe in Westside.
That's what I think would have happened anyway.
inkblotCrisis they have a Brahmin and a super mutant. They can go to lake mead and take water daily
If your going for the independent ending, it doesn’t matter
I thought it was because of the more then likely drugging he took
In the NCR ending it mentioned that they annexed "the Strip, Freeside and many other surrounding communities," I'm pretty sure by "surrounding communities" that would definitely mean Westside included. Once the NCR take over they would revice water anyway, if you let them continue to siphon water the NCR would obviously think how do these people have a farming system going here and would find the leak anyway after, better to plug it and get justice for White
11:54 I've never encountered the bug where Ranger Jackson's corpse ceases to appear, i'm glad that i never have. Even though it's not an objective or a requirement for the quest, and no gratitude is shown for doing so whatsoever, i always carry Ranger Jackson's corpse back to the checkpoint and drop him beside Ranger Morales, out of both sympathy and respect.
I just eat it.
I encountered that crazy bug when I did this quest. But, I never knew that until I watched this video.
@@cdogthehedgehog6923NCR vs any other playthrough
I thought I got the best of both by shutting off Vault 34s reactor so that more water would go to the Sharecropper farms and letting Anderson keep siphoning off some for west side
But killing the people in vault 34
As for the moral question, Westside is NOT self reliant, they depended on stealing water from NCR so that they can stay independent from them. so i side with NCR out of logic, their town isn't sustainable as a independent plan and simple.
Which is why i say the Follower's flaw is their idealism, "NCR only cares for productive and growth" but it's that productive and growth will fed and clothe more people in the long run then trying to spread resource thinly but equally.
True but Yes-man is the only ending i see them able to keep going like that, NCR would find out in time (after the war was done), House too if he didn't already taken control, and the legion would have enslaved and murder most of them anyways, but that's more meta about the endings when the question of Westside itself
tho i doubt Freeside could manage/defened the sharecropper farm in the more anarchic Vegas that the endings paint, but your courier could do something different, roleplaying games are meant for roleplaying.
Letting People deliberatly Die by lack of Resources is never productive for Humanity, thats why Capitalist ''Democracies'' always fail.
@@TheySchlendrian See your argument doesn't work here because it's not a capitalist system denying a settlement resources they need, it's a settlement wanting to stay independent from a goverment while being directly depended on one of it's goverment-ran utility (socialism needs taxes as much as capitalisms).
A population that only grow to it's current unsustainable level because Anderson set up the NCR pipeline-depended co-op in the first place.
Hell NCR can even provides relief efforts to independent Freeside in a endings (other being Freeside is actively attacking NCR civilians and thus being meet with military force), along with running two refugee camps.
Anderson cries desperation on behalf of Westside, but really they want to have the benefits of an NCR town while maintaining their self-determination. The NCR would fall over themselves to gain a ready-made productive farm town in the Mojave. Join the NCR, and allow them to decide how to divert *their* water to *their* settlements or stay independent and run a caravan of water from Mead to Westside on your own dime and maintain your independence. It's what always bothered me about this quest: you can't point out Anderson and Gannon's false equivalency BS to them. It's all "think of the poor people". I'm sure their lives will get along great when emaciated NCR troops get decimated at Forlorn Hope and McCaran, and the Legion rolls into Westside putting the sick and infirm on crosses, recruits the surviving men and boys and sells the remaining women.
Natasel+ For sure. Then, maintain your independence as I outlined. I don't think one choice is better than another: whatever the town decides.
I remember when I first played this quest I sided with Anderson because I assumed the NCR could make do with a little less water. I felt good about helping the people of Westside until I talked to the sharecroppers and was horrified to learn that I’d singlehandedly destroyed their livelihoods. It really made me reconsider my choices and helped me rethink how I view things in general. I really love how there are no right answers in this game, and it helped me better understand how the real world is often much the same. You can only hope to do as well as you can by as many people as possible, I guess
I wonder why I didn't get that quest.
@michaelrameyjr.5468 a lot of side quests you only find by exploring and talking to the right npc
Yeah, I generally say the NCR is right here, even as someone who prefers the Yes Man ending. The Westsiders do have a right to use water from the lake just as much as anyone else does, BUT the infrastructure they're abusing to get it only functions off the NCR's labor. If the NCR wasn't around, they'd be just as bad off, if not worse, regarding water. It's morally the same as if the water was being transported via trucks and they started hijacking shipments. The NCR isn't responsible if Westside's not able to otherwise get the water. You can't call yourself independent only to turn around and leech resources from others, and you damn sure can't murder a guy for catching you in the act and then try to claim the moral high-ground.
When I played the part where we retrive the body, I didn't read the not so I carried the body all the way to Camp Mcarran hahahaha
Dedication
Did you bring him to the checkpoint or just reload a save lol?
@@moneygrabber6720 I think I just draged him back all the way too lol
This decision was pretty easy to me. One way or another Anderson needed to pay for his crime. Murdering an innocent guy to protect widescale theft is inexcusable and unacceptable.
Westside has absolutely no right to the water from the pipes. The NCR builds and maintains them and soldiers risk their lives every day to protect them. The NCR owns the pipes so they choose who gets to use it. On top of that, survival by theft isn't independence. They're still dependant on the NCR. The Westsiders 'relying' on this water are thieving parasites.
I love your videos, Oxhorn.
Even after playing these games over and over, you're STILL showing me things I've never seen.
You know, I sided morally with the NCR. Because of one simple reason: democracy.
Even though during the time of Fallout New Vegas, I hate President Kimball and their imperial outlook, the point of a democracy is that it can change. So, if the NCR takes over the Mojave Wasteland, that makes it so that there are new voters to shape the NCR into a collective of what everybody wants. That is impossible with Mr. House and Caesar's legion (dictatorship), as well as independance (anarchy, which opens the door to dictatorship.) The other main reason why I side with them is the Follower's of the Apocalypse. The only ending where they are able to sustain themselves and expand is the ending where they allied with the NCR and the NCR win. A lot of people dislike how the NCR handles the Great Khans, but you must remember that they are, at their heart, drug dealing raiders.
It should also be noted that it was the Khans that started the fighting in the first place by attacking NCR traders and soldiers, and killing innocent civilians including children so they were basically asking for a mad bear to attack them. And if you want to go further back when the NCR was just Shady Sands, the Khans bullied, kidnapped, and killed many villagers including their leaders daughter.
I sided with Caesar for one reason: stability Even though the are cruel mysogenistic slaving sons of bitches they are better at keeping the peace wiping out mutants and managing resources plus communities not decimated by him in his territory often praise him namely Dale Barton and others like him
Plus the Great Khans are warriors not raiders they have honor
Even though in the end, they will fall
THE NCR IS AS MUCH A DEMOCRACY AS THE DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF KOREA
I have to say while I really enjoy the 'grey' nature of many of the quests in NV, this one I felt was less so since there's an obvious solution. Let Westside buy water. Since they are clearly in a position where they have a surplus of goods, they should be able to make a deal. What should tip the balance is a bit specuative, but say Westside loses the water, I'd expect an upsurge in crime as people who can no longer feed themselves and their families become desperate and the likely target for that crime would be NCR. A stable Westside that provides income to the NCR for its water distribution should be a benefit to all, _especially_ given that regularising the flow to Westside would help the NCR farms too, by not shorting them.
Not to lay blame, but if White had just had the interests of the farms at heart and had allowed Anderson to explain why he felt he had to steal the water, he might have been somewhat sympathetic, but it may well have been that the idea of arresting Anderson, saving the farms and that transfer to the Rangers blinded him to the bigger picture... and, tragically, ended his life. So to conclude, there's no end to the quest, as it is, that isn't 'which group do you screw over' and so I'd say there's no choice that counts as moral or even common bloody sense.
Anderson had no right to put a target on West Side and get a child personally involved in theft against a militarized, bureaucratic regime. He also had no right to kill White, even though White was in the wrong also. I think this quest really boils down to how the player views Post War morality. Since you can sometimes rest assured that no one will get caught, given that much of the old world order is gone, do you let some people off the hook in exchange for less suffering of those caught up in the Fallout? Or do you try to apply a judicial model of justice from Pre-War regardless of the nuances and subtleties? Maybe some entire areas like West Side are simply doomed, and there is nothing you can do about it. Most of us who play these types of RPGs don't like it when confronted with these realities, without having a solution. But New Vegas both confronts these realities, and allows us to draw our own conclusions. The NCR would have never even resolved this without the intervention of the Courier, which points to their shortcomings. But even if the Courier has max reputation in Freeside, having done extensive altruistic work with the Followers, Anderson still has no problem attacking and killing him to get away with theft and murder. He is a hypocrite to expect that the Courier recognize West Side's potential while he himself would snuff out anyone who threatens to expose him. This one is cut and dry in my opinion.
@@AlecRozsa In the wrong? For discovering/reporting theft?
@@AlecRozsa how is White in the wrong it seems to me that he is actually listening to the NCR sharecroppers because they know more about farming then he does and reporting the theft
Make a T-shirt with "MeansonofaWHAT?"
"You never lost someone do you?"
Me after witnessing ed-e's death in lonesome road: *sniff* you sure?
The thing with Anderson is this. Yes, the Westside locals were there before the NCR and should have the right to the water over the NCR. But one needs to keep in mind that without the NCR they would all be enslaved or driven off by the Legion. So, even though Anderson didn't necessarily do the wrong thing, I think diverting the water back to the NCR is the right choice. Without the NCR Westside loses either way.
Without the hennesseyr Adolfious (soyjak-[sic]) would have no reason to cross the Comicon. He saw defeating them as a benchmark to a great civilization.
Oh wow! I love waking up to your vids
going to sleep*
If the farmers leave wont the ncr stop protecting the pipes to the current extent.
Meaning the pipes will probably get destroyed by a enemy force leaving the ncr and the locals with nothing.
The ncr deserves the water
It's not wether if they deserve it or not it's there's regardless. It's like with growing food. Sure you don't own the land but you own the produce and if someone takes it, it's plain stealing even if it is just to feed a family.
He said give water to Freeside because she can't know about Westside.
I dunno, Westside sure is proud of what they built...on stolen water. How proud are they gonna be with that water gone? All their "hard" work" is fake at heart. Build your own pipes before chest pounding your independance. They depend on NCR and NCR has to have a say in all of this. Otherwise it's plain unfair.
@@buttons551 That's not the point. Whether the Mojave belongs to them or not, they're still being stolen from. Something they spend their blood, sweat, tears, and probably money on is being stolen from them by a parasite. A parasite which claims self sufficiency. The NCR does all the hard work getting that water through the pipes and protected from Raiders/Legion/Etc, and Westside steals it because they think they have some moral right to it.
Role playing an NCR 1st Recon Sniper with Boone as a companion, I sided with the NCR and the NCR farmers. If Caesar and the Legion win the War, there will be nothing left of Freeside. As the Centurion prisoner said they will destroy the Strip, to me that would include the surrounding area as well. Which would include Freeside. If I help the NCR win the War, I'm hoping Freeside will be better off in the long run.
Water is incredibly valuable here in the south-west US. We have a saying, "Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting". Saw more than a few tense exchanges between farmers as a young boy.
Actually, nobody is forbidden from taking water from Lake Mead. I think a trader on the way to Vegas, a woman who is selling water, tells you that people can head to Lake Mead and take the water they need, it's just bothersome to make the trip, which is totally understandable. If Westside found a more reliable way to pump the water in I don't think the NCR would be opposed to it.
A tough choice to be sure. But I think the people living in Westsiders have more a claim then the farmers brought over from the NCR territories. After all, with a little help, those Westsiders could be the farmers the NCR would rely on for food. It seems like these farmers are just another form of how the NCR and its crooked politics are trying to muscle into the Mojave at the expense of the Mojave residence.
It may seem cruel. But I'm a bit weary of he NCR tactics and some of the factions that follow in with them. They aren't as bad as Caesar, but it doesn't seem wise to buddy-up with a faction that currently has questionable history in it's choices. Best to arrest Anderson under false charges and keep the water flowing to Westside, I think.
Exploring The Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For A Time Machine
I think siding with the NCR is the morally good choice to make since the share cropper farms provide food for all the troops and NCR settlements in the Mojave therefor you're dooming more people by siding with the people of Westside not only that but dealing this blow to the share cropper farms weakens the NCR which eventually would cause the legion to take NCR territories and then the strip so the people of Westside would die anyway
I love Fallout NV. Every time I play it, its like visiting an old friend.
A old friend or a good ass funny dialogue guns blazing master work
And learning new things about that old friend every time.
I can’t in good faith support Anderson, he has committed many crimes like this before and steals the water built by NCR blood, NCR suffers and the farmers do aswell
I do understand the point made by the game if a poor person steals because he has no other option to survive should he be punished like everybody else?
People often ask why I adore New Vegas as much as I do and I always tell them that one of the many reasons is that they (Obsidian) never seemed to pull any punches so to speak. They laid everything on 110% and even though these quests can, and did (still do), hit me pretty damn hard, I'm glad they didn't hold back. It's one heck of a game!
The people of Westside are not citizens of the New California Republic. Because of this, they are NOT responsible for them or their well-being. Should Westside accept annexation from the NCR, we would have a different story. I have a neutral opinion of the NCR but I do not justify stealing just because your nation is a failure and unable to provide for it's inhabitants which the Westside city-state ( and I use this term lightly based on all the anarchy) fits this description. I would have told him that not only will he be placed under arrest, but the water source will also be turned back over to the New California Republic and anyone involved in the crime will be placed under arrest, as well.
@Natasel Legion, and that's not a pretty option to choose.
A video at 9am on the east coast. This is how great days start. Love the videos ox and wait everyday for them.
Hello. My twin brother lives in NH in Barnstead
Richard Nicolett Hey from Maryland.
The_ brokenbat27 hello. From CT. Last time I was in Maryland was to go to ocean city and that was 4 years ago. Nice place
Christina Lenhart that's cool. I haven't been up there in a year but I saw you guys got crazy amounts of snow this even in April
12 am in themorning AEST somthing like that.
For my NCR charaters I sided with them, but not exactaly because of just being a NCR playthrough. Westside isn't the only time the Followers and NCR clash in the game, HELIOS I for example. With HELIOS I diverted the power everywhere, it seems fair that they get a compromise. However with White it would appear turn in Anderson and keep the secret is the compromise ending, but it's not really, the only difference between that and siding with Westside is Anderson is in a cell. The NCR earned they're water, White died for it, the least you can do is take it back from the thieves in Westside...
I take the option to blame the gang for Whites death but never return to Bascom and they continue farming. The NCR didn't make the water system, that was prewar and it already gets distributed to the strip as well, they just came in and decided where it will go cutting people off. They tapped into the pipes where the farm is and they don't guard the pump house, the NCR farm is more the water thief than the sharecroppers. The water to the strip could be lowered to meet the farms demands since it gets wasted there by being used for swimming pools and decorative water features.
Hmm..I think the NCR is in the right for this. Without Water and Food, troops would have to eventually leave, or use resources which could cause riots in CA.
If the NCR leace, then the Legion woukd massacre Westside anyway...
13:39 When i saw those legionaries i went fully psycho mode (i didn't take any psychos IRL and in-game) began spraying assault carbine AP ammo on their body
It's like you said Oxhorn. " good intentions doesn't excuse bad decisions". Stealing water from an organization and then murdering one of the troops from that organization for finding out is not excusable. I chose to turn him in, but kept his secret because i understand why.
I wish there was an option to tell anderson that he's lying, and then to shout "WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DESERT!" when he claims to not know about any water theft.
I'll never be able to get used to the way you say "white". HHHWYTE
Ameritard yeah, that is pretty hhhwierd.
Coo’ hwhip.
Rachel V Saw this one coming eventually
I ended up telling Anderson to turn himself in, refusing to lie for him, and then defending myself. I told Arcade that it was cleaner this way and that I didn't want the NCR to bother Westside about this, saved my reputation with him and helped the Sharecropper farms.
I see the argument for the other side and it's also valid, but I believe that it's an overall more beneficial choice for the most people to side with the NCR on this one. My character's no liar, and also has a pretty big lean towards the NCR though, so to be fair I do have a bit of a bias, but even so, looking objectively, I believe that this helps the most people in the long run.
I wish there was an option to keep Anderson alive and have him turn himself in, without having to lie for him, but given the choices we have in the game, this one seems like the best in my eyes.
It wouldn't be a problem if westside took the water directly from Lake Meed, but the fact that they are taking the water from the pipes that specifically supply the farms is what made me conclude that westside don't deserve that stolen water. If they need water, there's nothing really stopping them from building pipes, or digging wells of their own.
Problem is they did put a water pump in free side and then a more greedy member of the kings took it. It's unfortunate that while king himself seems to believe in letting people live freely some of his subordinates don't think that way.
@@nubreed13 Freeside and West Side are separate. You don't see any Kings gang members impose their rule on West Side. So West Side is out of King's control.
To be fair, NCR does control the trade route (even though the routes aren't well protected) and mercantile buying and selling with trade merchants. They can easily get supplies from them whereas westside, along with the rest of New Vegas citizens, have to depend on themselves.
From what I've noticed from my time playing, most will talk about freeside as if they are talking about all the grounds that aren't inside of House's walls. So freeside is Freeside, Westside and more.
Yes! I could tell that water quest was there but couldn't figure out how to start it. I talked with Bascom and followed the pipes, reading a couple terminals that seemed to indicate that the water was poisoned, but I had stumbled onto the middle of the quest and couldn't find the beginning. Once again, Oxhorn's thoroughness exposes an experience I missed! Did anyone else have this problem?
This quest is exactly why New Vegas is special as a game. It's really cool how there are so many different outcomes, and how each has noticeable effects on the world. And your relationship with Arcade! The moral grey area allows you to make a choice based on the character you have created in the back of your head. All of this adds up to an immersive game that demonstrates the real meaning of RPG.
One thing I don't understand is why Anderson can afford to skim off the top to pay for your silence but can't afford to pay NCR for water. It would have been nice if there was an outcome where the NCR started buying Westside's crops and Westside started paying for the water. Maybe then Bascom could have moved into Westside?
I love Arcade Gannon as a companion and im so excited we are working our way towards starting his story. Between his story, the writing for his lines, and his voice actor, he's just such a memorable companion to me. And Im loving seeing all these things I have missed in my NCR playthrough so far!
CursiveS arcades always rubbed me the wrong way with how he thinks things should be run because he doesn’t take into account the lives of the ncr or legion he only cares about the squatters and would probably destroy both groups if it meant only the squatters would survive that mentality won’t keep them alive but he is interesting to say the least
O CaptainChuck Helping the Legion goes against everything Arcade believes in. He admits the NCR would be better than House and Ceasar running things. His main concern are the people who fall through the cracks with the NCR and House in control. There's no safety net for those people now. (Considering the universe Fallout is in, the safety net in Pre-War America probably would've barely passed inspection.) Who else is going to help them?
If I remember correctly, you're the one who called Arcade a hypocrite. I still don't disagree about that. With that said, I would think way less of Arcade if he didn't exploit opportunities wherever they present themselves to give the less fortunate an upper hand. He might be short-sighted, but he's not naive. That trait humanizes Arcade more to me.
my problem is that hes willing to tear down these institutes that have flaws but have more of a plan than just helping the needy even in the world we live in has a problem with but stealing from these groups isnt gonna help and then proclaims that he has the right idea even though hes condoning murder and losing the farmers who have families themselves hes costing more lives than saving and then preaches himself the good guy hes just like caesar but less crosses
O CaptainChuck Arcade is like Ceasar? That's not a good comparison, at all.
If Anderson could have gotten Westside access to the water by more honest means, I believe he would have. Arcade would have preferred that, too. That's just not the hand that was dealt.
Let's say Anderson asked the NCR for permission? He would have been told no. The NCR built the pipes, but have no intention of sharing the resources with the people who *actually live there*. House isn't demanding they do, either. There's no word on whether or not the NCR plans to extend jobs to the locals to access that water. They're only looking out for themselves. So Anderson did the only thing he could do to ensure to survival of a few more people. Does that make everything right? No, but there just wasn't any other good options.
Speaking of...did you save the Vault 34 remnants or did you help the farmers?
ingasparrow I saved the vault 34 remnants I do think they need help but I did turn in Anderson due to him killing an innocent man I didn’t have arcade with me and didn’t know he’d have a voice in it I’m not even mad at Anderson I’m mad that arcade decides to judge you if you don’t drop everything and help the less fortunate even if doing so condemns the other honest workers
If only you were a companion, it would be nice to hear the stories while shooting deathclaws
Tyler Adams if he was a companion i would want it to be a good fallout title that would rival new vegas and not a dud tho.
@@jazzman4218 He'd probably fit in much better as a radio newscaster.
@@dragoncat2734 Thats not a bad idea.
Anderson: Kills NCR trooper and steals NCR property.
NCR: I sleep.
Me: Accidentally picks up a tin can.
Camp McCarran: Real shit?
Ironic. Arcade starts criticizing you for killing Anderson, yet he's the one shooting first and killing him...
You've probably been asked this but would you be willing to do elder scrolls lore?
I love all the references to the original Fallout games in just this quest alone! Fallout New Vegas is full of these, and I appreciate that they reference past locations and factions and even update us on the current status of those things.
How about stopping radiation from Vault34?
Tom Anderson is a reference to the Matrix movies. Neo's real name is Tom Anderson
The way I see it, if you kill Anderson, in a situation where the NCR win, it will turn out for the better. Freeside already has problems with water due to the King's controlling the one pump, and after Westside loses it's stolen water supply, they would both have a problem with water. This would make what the NCR the provider of water, the unification of all of Vegas would go easier as letting Westside keep siphoning would give them more reason to defend their independence. Overall, it makes the NCR a more enticing option for Westside to join with if they are the one's controlling the water. It might sound a little messed up but I'd see it as pretty beneficial, the NCR is far from perfect, for example the "good" ending for the Van Graffs and Crimson Caravan still involves blackmailing on the NCR government's part
He had it coming, for stealing water from them
As for where the water is sent to, Westside shouldn't get to take what's need by everyone in the Mojave
I didn't even knew about the quest about retrieving Morales body! Wow, good one Ox! Thanks
I literally just found Westside... on my third play through. The first two I practicality only did the main missions at first. No idea what I was missing
The NCR are the ones who are doing the work to get the water so they are the ones who get the water and decide where they want it to go. Not just in fallout but in the real world if you do the work to get something it’s yours and it’s your right to keep it or do what ever you want with it
"I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? "No," says the man in Washington, "it belongs to the poor." "No," says the man in the Vatican, "it belongs to God." "No," says the man in Moscow, "it belongs to everyone." I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. A city where the artist would not fear the censor; where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality; where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well"
As we all know, that worked out _really_ well...
Nicholas Cross In your analogy, however, the NCR is technically the man in Washington. The water does go to the poor - the NCR's poor. (By which I mean the sharecroppers and other NCR affiliated sites in the Mojave.) The West Side is taking the water from the hard work of someone else, but they aren't doing so legally. (Like those in Washington do) The West Side pump is, literally, stealing water from the NCR made, NCR maintained pipeline, and then trying to pass that stolen water off as them being independent. They are not independent, because without the NCR's pipeline they'd never have water in the first place.
Well now, the point I was trying to make was that, in my opinion, the dog-in-the-manger attitude of the NCR in New Vegas is not unlike that of Andrew Ryan in Bioshock. In Bioshock we saw that the downtrodden masses, having been driven into the arms of Atlas by Ryan's indifference to their genuine plight, led to what we find there, which is a foretaste of Hell. Thus, I implied that the equal indifference of the NCR to the genuine plight of Westside, among others, would, inevitably, lead to consequences which would be... not good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting stealing isn't a bad thing, it is, we even see people whose lives are being messed up because of the theft by Westside at the sharecropper farms, _specifically_ to underline that point. However, the quest also goes out of its way to show that despite impassioned pleading to do something humanitarian about the communities outside the Strip, the NCR has done... nothing. I mean they can't even be arsed to _sell_ water to the locals. Which leads at least some of those locals to the choice of steal or die. Literally. And I defy anyone to put their hand on their heart and say, "I would never steal." when doing so is the _only_ means to put food and water into the mouths of their hungry, thirsty children. There is _no_ moral high ground here, it's all a moral chasm.
One point, while the NCR do maintain the pumps, cisterns and pipes, they didn't build it, they refurbished the pre-war system, as shown by multiple pre-war terminal entries in assorted places and, as such, _could_ pump water to Westside if they chose to. I suggest that, perhaps, "They chose... poorly." as a wise Knight once said.
a water thief? how dastardly!
I Understood "Wash My Bone" And it was strangely... descriptive especially since there is a bordello near the place he hangs out.
10:41 lol ohh
This one quest really made me question the Followers of the Apochalypse
Stealing from hard working people because you "need" it is ok then?
They are free to walk over to the lake and get ther own water. (And risk ther lives just like the NCR does).
These "poor people in need" just want the same others have but are not willing to pay the same price.
“My gruff old man farmer voice”😂😂
Hey guys! Does this guy have a series on the mobs of Fallout? That would be awesome. He goes into extremely satisfying levels of minutia about this stuff and in the past week I have probably watched like, 50 of his vids already.
Also Oxhorn if you notice this keep on the way you are going. You figured out some kind of formula here.
The NCR have obvious claim on the water they're pumping, the only caveat that would undermine that would be if the NCR were to stop Westside from making their own pipes, which they're not doing. This doesn't fall under the 'whatever you need to do to survive' mantra, either, as the residents could relocate closer to the lake or join the NCR. While neither may be something they want, it does disqualify 'survival' as an excuse.
This was a really good episode. I somehow missed the water quest. Damn, morally idk what would be the best option but I'm sure if the Followers wouldn't be happy knowing one of their own is a NCR killer. Thanks ox
Arcaide is pretty much me in a video game. Wanting an independent vagas, sarcastic, smart, all i'm missing is the latin
I believe Westside deserves the water. Trent Bascom implies that the NCR farmers can just go home if things go wrong. The Westsiders dont have that option. Secondly, the NCR does not have the rights to Lake Mead, as they are not the legitimate government of the New Vegas area, because they do not have jurisdiction over most of New Vegas.
I sided with the NCR because west side is screwed no matter what you do. If you let them keep stealing water then the NCR will eventually figure out they are stealing water and arrest them all or put a stop to the theft and then they will all be destitute anyway. Better to save the share croppers at least if the west siders are going to lose anyway. As Oxhorn said, the west siders can't protect or maintain the pumps either so why should they get to mooch off of the hard work of others? If West side needs water they should dig a well or make their own pumping system.
I disagree, west side doesn't deserve the water, as they did nothing to help get it, they are stealing. If you steal something do you deserve to keep it? But an easy solution here is: West side is making money. Ignoring the fact that its from stolen water. They could use this money to pay for the water. They are no longer stealing and they support the NCR who provides them with this water, by stealing it they're literally draining from the thing that provides them with what they require, with nothing in return and parasitic relationships never end well
When I beat up the Legion prisoner, i used vats but the mysterious stranger appeared and did his job. Boyd was so pissed.
I have played my heart out of the fallout games, but pretty much every time you upload a video, I learn something new about the series. Thank you for your dedication to this series, Ox.
Thanks for making these. I've never bothered to side with the NCR so I missed almost every one of their quests in Camp McCarran. It's way more in depth than I imagined. I might want to do an NCR playthrough now.
Build your own damn pipes thieves.
Nobody tells the tunnel rats what to do
pifft i just killed everyone and took over nv with benny and a gecko companion thanks to some mods XD
Gross. That’s a gross thing to say.
Seems like you can get the kings to lay off the water pump they took over. I could be remembering wrong but there's a quest where you get the kings and NCR to work together. It involved sharing food and the kings second in command was stirring up trouble, getting other kings killed, lying to the boss. It's been a while sincr I played New Vegas.
I remember when I first did this quest, I thought I had to deliver Esteban's body to Christina in the airport. I was trying to figure out how do I drag the body into the airport lol.
the most moral option would have been to have a quest line that allow you to have them pay a tax to the NCR for the water.
Honestly. Lake Mead is stupidly large even post apocalypse. There is enough water for both and they have no right to bar people, the locals no less- life saving water.
I went into gamorah came out and found out the weapons I gave my companions disappeared 🤨😶
I wish there was some sort of way that you could convince the Westside to just join the NCR and then they get water and food and NCR support all legally. The only issue I see is clashes between NCR and the more patriotic Westside citizens, hence why they want to stay “self reliant”
Hey Oxhorn do you currently have or can you make a video that showcases your New Vegas build please? I know many of us would greatly appreciate it myself included
Scarce does double uploads/Me: I sleep.
Oxhorn releases a video at 6:00 am my time/Me: Real shit?
As a french subscriber, i really like the fact that you release your videos earlier. Thanks Ox
Could you do a lore video on the raider factions in Nuka World?
Well, this explains all those named NPCs I killed without knowing why they were named.
The Westside-Community and especially Anderson are the only criminals and I am honestly disappointed that you are even questioning why after saying multiple times that you are a patriot.
I know you love questioning and everything and everyone Oxhorn but this time I was seriously questioning myself why you even considered it:')
The entire ground covered in Fallout:New Vegas is at these times a Warzone from the NCR‘s perspective means every single bit of any resource they bring/create there for the war effort is military property so that the military can sustain itself until the war is over and the land is conquered for the better of everyone.
Imagine the NCR actually losing the war, the Legion Rolling in, killing every single raider and afterwards enslaving everyone in Westside cause these braindead dipshits and maybe even more other communities around simply were incapable of realizing what they are doing in the Moment they stole the water from the NCR?
The NCR kills the Raiders, too but they give the land they conquered back to the people that lives on them.
Sure they need to pay taxes from now on but ffs they are safe and as free as a civilization allows.
Hard choice since either way you're screwing over a community of honest hard working people who are just trying to survive. That said the best choice is to ensure the water goes to the NCR in my opinion.
While it is true the water shortage problem like most problems the NCR is facing in the Mojave is because it got too damn greedy and tried to expand too far, too fast. But like Oxhorn said, the NCR built the pipeline, they maintain it, and they spill their blood to defend it so who can deny the NCR the benefits of their labors?
While Anderson's desire to ensure that Westside is able to remain viable is understandable and I can understand why some would conclude that it would morally justify stealing the water from NCR, when you take a step back to look at the big picture it is incredibly short-sighted. If the share-croppers fail it compromises the farms meant to feed the NCR's troops which not only compromises the NCR's ability to defend the pipe as Oxhorn pointed out and screw over both the NCR and Westside. But it also compromises the NCR's ability to hold off the Legion.
Sure siphoning the water allows Westside to be more prosperous but is it worth increasing the chances that every man will be forced to serve as cannon-fodder for Caesar's wars and every woman will be forced to live as a human broodmare? I would say it is not.
I think it's kind of ridiculous that you lose karma for asking Christina Morales for payment to retrieve her husband's body. You are a stranger to her, and not even an NCR soldier, so it's not like it's a part of your duty. She told you the body is surrounded by mines, traps and snipers so you are risking your life for this. I don't think asking to be compensated for completing this task is immoral.
I like your old farmer voice
It's an easy choice....
NCR protects and maintains the pipes and pumps.....
They'll eventually shut down the pumps if they don't get water.... That way no one gets water......
Choosing NCR seems right to me
Westside can go dry in my opinion - Sure NCR got not claim to Lake Mead, but they DO have the claim on the waterpipes transporting the water. If the Westsiders are thristy, they can work for that damn water by making a water caravan to and fro lake mead or any other lake iwth clean water. Or maybe set up a rad-removal distillery. The Westsiders seem to apparently think they deserve the water without doing the work to get it.
I always kill Anderson. If you let him go he says he makes sure nothing like this ever happens again but if you chose not to cooperate he immediatly turns hostile and tries to kill you too. Yes Westside should get water but not tainted with the blood of innocent people and they have no right to steal it either. And I don´t like Gannon´s arguments either. This is straight up murder. Anderson attacked first in some cases but still he points his finger at you like you are responsible for this adult man´s reaction.
Soooo... Someone died trying to recover some corpse, but no one will be worried about his corpse (as is not an option for the hero). Thats not fair... i will let both corpses rot out there... Actually no. I will go there to kill the Fiends just to let a lot of corpses out there and let the quest go unfinished.
When i got to this point I actually did a save and tried all the paths i could then simply just did nothing in the end, I left that one quest at a stand still.